/vx/ - Videogames and Paranormal

>>104205
“More or less good. I haven’t been shot recently”

>>104206
Dark Star Laughs
"Good to Hear. hey are there any water fountains around here?"

>>104207
“Sure. There is one over on the right side of the lobby, in the back past the first door on your right”

>>104208
"Thanks."
he walks over to it and drinks some of it,while he's waiting on Blue.

>>104209
She walks up to him

>>104210
"Hey, Do you know where Silver is? I Think i'm Gonna need his help."

>>104211
“Silver? He was going to go retrieve books from the catacombs at that construction site

>>104193
It's alright. In this case it's nothing that would be your fault, I think. Best way I can describe it is that I'm pretty sure I have some sort of ADD, but I might be self-misdiagnosing. There's just some things I get bored of and lose interest, especially if I'm feeling like I'm stuck somewhere or I'm not making any progress. Like I said, I would love to go through the entire zoo with the colts and give them a great day out, but...ugh. And in more practical terms, I still need to finish Blue's job, and Star is both asking after me and wants to visit the colts, himself.

>>104213
So you just want to skip ahead to taking the foals back?

>>104214
Maybe. There's one thing I want to do for the foals along the way, though.

>>104215
Well, I guess the foals leave the zoo, and follow Silver

>>104216
Little do the colts know, Silver is leading them to possibly the most diabolical place ever invented: a toy store. "Listen...I am sorry, you two. You know, for earlier. I want to do something for you two, to make up for it."

>>104217
“Okay...”
“Okay”

>>104218
When they arrive, however long that takes, Silver holds the door open for them. "Go on in, pick out something, anything you want. I will meet you at register in couple minutes, yes?"

>>104219
“Okay...”
The colts seem to hear and understand

>>104212
"Hmmmmm, Maybe Iron is at the Bar or Abby?"

>>104220
It is not much, but I hope this will help, even if only little bit. While the colts (presumably) look around the store, Silver gets to work looking around the store for some things to get the pair: in particular, for each of them he wants a blanket, a stuffed animal, and a book (fantasy for White Orchid, nonfiction about marine life for Mint Marine), for Mint Marine he wants a marine animal toy and a toy boat, and for White Orchid he wants a toy train and a set of building blocks. He's not sure how well he'll be able to manage, but he tries his best to look. He also looks for a candy bar for Mint Marine, and a bag of gummy candies for White Orchid.

>>104226
Sounds like it could be a big ball to juggle, but he did say it was a group mission.
Although Brie's quest is a group mission, too.

>>104225
Any specificity on what sort of blanket, what kind of stuffed animal, and what sort of fantasy book?

>>104228
The blankets should probably be comfort blankets, or the closest period-appropriate equivalent. You know, something that would feel like the blankets are giving them a hug. The stuffed animal for Mint I'm thinking should be something like a turtle, while for Orchid it should be something like a manticore. And as for White Orchid's fantasy book, I'm thinking something along the lines of "a brave hero goes on an adventure to slay the monster and save the town".

>>104229
Well, there are indeed stuffed Turtles, as well as a Dragon, an Ursa, a Dolphin, some sort of dragon-octopus cross, a Seapony... maybe a manticore. Blankets include very fluffy, thin, quilted, and normal.

The various fantasy books include "To Where and Back Again," "Grogar the Barbarian," "Last Horizons," "The Once and Future Princess," The "Spring of the Unicorn," and so forth

>>104230
>a Dolphin
Whelp, then from those it'll be quilted blankets for both of them, a stuffed dolphin for Mint Marine, and a stuffed ursa for White Orchid. As for the fantasy book, he takes a look at "Last Horizons" to see what that is about.

>>104230
Now how could I forget "The Synthetic Mares of the Moon"

>>104231
They are all references

>>104232
It tells the tale of an Equestrian adviser and a group whose plane crashed in the high Llamas Mountains of Eastern Zebrica, and who stumbles upon a mystical and secluded village of Panda-la, where the Panda inhabitants use the magical waters of the well spring to live extended lives.

>>104233
"Hmm..." He puts it back to look at the 'Spring of the Unicorn'.

>>104233
I figured as much, but I only got the second one without looking it up on a new tab.
Sadmoment.

>>104234
It tells the story of Ulta Valor, a Unicorn of Pleasant Valley whose herd is oppressed by Vikings, whose taxation and exactions are so severe that the ponies are thrown out of their lands. Ulta joins the Crystal resistance, but is ultimately defeated, and captured and enslaved by the Corsairs of the Southern Islands. Through a series of trials and tribulations, he eventually earns his freedom, learns tactics and strategy, and leads a fight to drive the Vikings out of Pleasant Valley

I know no one asked for this, but I am going to provide a play-by-play anyways because I want to. This is what was going on with Mint Marine and White Orchid as Silver talked to them about Changeling Nymphs. If you don't want to read that for whatever reason, then skip the rest of this post.

It starts off with Mint Marine comparing Vampires to Changelings, which would reflect a popular attitude towards Changelings prevailing in Equestria at that time. He eleaborates, "there were two of them at..." trailing off at the end of the sentence. >>104088 This begins a pattern in Mint Marine's speech where he can never name Comte Burgher, or say explicitly what happened to him. Every time it would be appropriate to name his abuser, or to say the abuse happened, he becomes silent for the length of the time it would take to say the word, then proceeds with his sentence, or stops all together. This reply also tells us something else important about Mint Marine. In his mind, the Changeling race is intimately associated with the experience of his sexual abuse, since that is the only time he has ever seen a Changeling. In his mind, those Changelings and his abuse are linked.

Both ponies hang their heads at the mention of the abuse >>104091. Silver starts off with empathy, but presses his contention that the two changelings should be sympathized with >>104092. Silver is facing an uphill battle here for two reasons. The first is that Changelings are a damned near mythically evil set of creatures that their country has just fought and lost a war against. The second is that Silver is trying to push these two colts to sympathize with and express pity towards two Changelings, when these two colts themselves feel entitled to sympathy, and aren't entirely willing to share the pity pie.

Mint Marine relates his negative experience with those two specific Changelings. >>104093
When I first wrote that scene many months ago, it had a cloth placed between the foals and the changelings, such that they could not see each other, even as someone entering from the door could. The reason for that is that the Changelings had originally had a view of the colts, and would hiss and lunge at the colts scaring them half to death. Thus Comte placed a veil between the two sides so the Changelings couldn't see the colts and wouldn't act aggressively towards them. It was kind of nice being able to make use of that detail which was not able to be expounded upon at the time the scene was described.

In the next few bits of dialogue, Silver tries to explain that the Changelings were hissing at Mint because they were hungry, and implores Mint to try to take the Changeling's point of view. This is a fairly normal form of moral reasoning, just asking someone "what would you have done if you were in their position?" >>104094 >>104095. Mint Marine, however, will have none of this. For him, the way of the world consists mostly of the strong doing what they can, and the weak suffering what they must. With Mint being a small blank-flank pony with no mother, father, friends or connections, that means a hell of a lot of suffering on his part, and a hell of a lot of the strong getting away with it. Mint's father abandoned his mother when he was very young. His mother became an alcoholic, and was unfit to raise him. When his last relative died, he was placed in a Church-run institution that at best fails to replace a family and at worst is oppressive, while never integrating into the life there. And above all of this, the specter of Comte looms. His entire life is filled with examples of people doing things in their own self interest that ultimately caused suffering to him. Thus he is not soothed by a call to "look at it from their perspective." Mint knows very well that his father wanted an easier life than to settle down and raise a foal, thus he left him. He knows that his mother loved alcohol, and chose the bottle over him. And he knows very well that Comte and several of his associates are sexually attracted to prepubescent foals. Mint's conclusion from this whole set of experiences is that need does not morally excuse causing harm to someone else. And if need does morally excuse causing harm to someone else, then morality is a frivolous mental exercise that has no real purpose for being, and may as well be jettisoned for a nihilistic struggle for power, which is all Mint has seen in his life anyways. A second and related issue is that Mint sees Changeling feeding as inherently evil, as it requires literally stripping the happiness from a pony for their own sustenance. Thus a changeling's need to feed inherently requires harming a pony in about equal measure to fulfill. That, in Mint's mind, is evil.

After this, Silver goes quite a step further, trying to humanize... er, equinize the Changeling Nymphs by describing them as beings with personalities, ambitions, goals, and fears all of their own >>104098 >>104103. This is a more successful approach than the last, but it still receives push back from Mint. Silver is still asking Mint to have pity for the Changeling nymphs. However, Mint still feels entitled to be stingy with his sympathy. He believes his sufferings have earned him the right to be sympathized with, and the right to be indifferent towards what he sees as monstrous parasites.

The response to these two bits of dialogue is significant, because it shows that White Orchid has been roped into the conversation. When Silver tells the details of the two Changelings he knows, White Orchid's first instinct is to reject the truth of the assertion. The idea that a Changeling could be just like a pony is just a bit outlandish to him.

White Orchid is quick to dismiss many things as untrue or just fairy tales. Perhaps it is because he is older, and he sees "putting away childish things" as an essential part to his growing up. Maybe it is because he has been inculcated into the religion of the order of Saint Prancis, and such religions tend to come with their own comprehensive metaphysical worldviews that "occupy the field" and leave just about everything else to be dismissed as falsehoods and superstition. What is clear is that he is more skeptical about claims than Mint.

However, when Silver speaks more, and insists that his experiences are real, White Orchid is more inclined to accept Silver's basic proposition that Changelings are entitled to be thought of as equal creatures. This is because White Orchid has spent more time with the teachings of the Harmonic worldview than Mint, and has generally come to believe its tenets about withholding judgement until you understand the other pony's point of view, of forgiveness, compassion, sacrifice of personal interest for the sake of the other, and friendship. White Orchid knows that the principles of Harmony he's been taught must be true, because his father died in a foreign war that was fought on the principle of helping others. Surely his father would not have gone across the ocean and left nothing behind for him and his mother, soon to succumb to the Sleeping Sickness, unless the sacrifice served some greater purpose, however hard to see and understand. Thus for White Orchid it's not really an absurd proposition after all that Changelings might be like ponies.

And now we get to the fateful set of dialogue that really turns things. >>104106. Silver takes Mint's push back against Silver's proposition as a personal attack, and goes on the defensive, standing "firm against the onslaught," giving a "dead serious expression," and insisting that he will "stick by my decision to the end, I have no regrets." This marks the abandonment of any attempt to show Mint any sympathy or pity. This is basically a deal breaker for Mint, because Mint believes that any kind of discussion about who deserves sympathy must acknowledge his claim to deserve sympathy. He feels entitled to it. Silver again uses the "look at it from their perspective" reasoning to show why the Changelings need their sympathy. Silver gives a list of sufferings the Changelings have undergone. But this list is almost identical to the sufferings Mint himself has undergone, a fact that is not mentioned at all in the top of the dialogue. In one line, Silver says "[imagine] you are torn from your family, your home." Mint could easily retort "I can't imagine having a family and a a home as I've never had that." Curiously omitted from the list of sufferings the Nymphs have experienced is the sexual abuse. Silver may have gotten further with Mint if he had reminded him that those Changelings are victims in that regard too.

Then Silver says the thing that is most offensive to Mint. "[a]cross from you are two, life-saving sources of food." The "source of food" of course, means Mint Marine himself. Mint sees this as Silver saying explicitly that Mint does not have any kind of dignity that must be respected; that Mint does not have a moral right to his own body or happiness. It's as dehumanizing of a phrase as can be. Now of course, to a changeling Mint Marine is a source of food, but Silver was talking about matters of moral right, and when viewed from a moral perspective, Mint Marine does not believe that his own right to not have the happiness brutally stripped out of his soul at least deserves a mention when compared to a Changeling's alleged right to not be caged. After more defensive posturing, Silver does say "and just as I would help them, I would help you in turn... both of your lives matter." But by this time, the damage is done. Silver ends this section of dialogue by not so subtly implying that Mint Marine is morally deficient.

White Orchid does not say anything. As stated before, White Orchid is somewhat impressed by Silver's argument. At this point, he is also being reminded of the abuse he's suffered from Comte. Unlike Mint Marine, who is emotionally unstable, White Orchid is largely emotionally stable. But he starts to break down as he is reminded more and more of the abuse.

At this point, Mint Marine has absolutely lost it. Specifically, he takes hold of Silver's objectifying Mint Marine as a source of food, and conflates it in his mint with Comte's objectifying Mint Marine as a sexual object. If Silver is arguing that it is morally acceptable to forcibly strip happiness from Mint Marine by magical means because you are hungry, then Silver must be arguing that it is okay to force him to felate you if you are lustful... or so goes the unstable mind of this ~11 year old child, anyways. Mint's response is emotional, and almost perfectly conflates the Changelings with Comte. Comte has dominated Mint's mind at all points of this conversation, and now he comes to the forefront.

Mint starts by answering Silver's question "should I have left them to rot" in the affirmative. >>104107 He asserts, very firmly, that the Changelings should have been caged because otherwise they would have tried to eat him. Mint wants to assert himself, and his right to not be a 'food source.' Then he rejects the perspective switch moral reasoning. "I can no more put myself in their hooves than I could put myself in _______'s place." Here, the comparison between Comte and the Changelings is as explicit as it could possibly be. And the argument is the same. Some forms of need - like the need to literally suck the happiness out of child's soul for your own nourishment, or the need to molest children - are asserted to have no moral validity, and are for all real purposes, 'evil.' They need to be 'purged."

Mint ends his outburst with "need to be put in a cage... or shot." 'Cage' can mean either the cage the Changelings were placed in, or for Comte, a prison. The word 'shot' is a reference to a conversation Dark Star had with the two colts the day before, where he tried to convince both foals that Comte should and would be shot for what he did. White Orchid was resistant to the suggestion, but Mint Marine had no such inhibitions. Indeed, Dark Star's nearly barbaric worldview of strength and revenge has a real appeal to Mint Marine, as it involves taking the world that Mint Marine experiences it, and dealing with it on its own terms, but from a position of greater power.

Silver, however, entirely misses that Mint's remarks were directed primarily at Comte. >>104108. "Unnatural evil, like calling for wholesale extermination of entire sapient species? Killing families? Foals?" He does not hide that he finds Mint's suggestion morally repugnant. Silver damned near compares the orphaned child sexual assualt survivor to Hitler, and not in the flattering kind of way that Dark Star would do it: "only evil I hear about them right now is coming from you. You can not solve this problem with genocide"

Mint Marine tries to respond by a final reassertion of his dignity as a being and his right to not be eaten or molested. By this point, however, he's basically already lost. Silver responds, finally, by agreeing with Mint... but only after all of the damage has already been done >>104110. Interestingly, this line seems to indicate an understanding that Mint is conflating changelings and Comte... which would have been very helpful just one post before that one.

After this, White Orchid says "that's not what he meant. As it was intended, it was a reply to >>104108, where White Orchid was trying to tell Silver that Mint Marine was not advocating for a Shoah of Changelings, but rather was expressing his hatred of the Stallion who sexually abused him, and in a way that had been planted in his mind by Dark Star the day before. Instead, however, this statement is in reply to >>104110, which means it just sounds odd. The reason for this is because that scene was orginally supposed to be different. After Silver accuses Mint marine of being pony Hitler, Mint Marine runs off, and the PTSD suffering Orchid can only hollowly say there was a misunderstanding. As it was written, Mint Marine stays around to allow for a reply, even though the conversation is already over by that point. White Orchid's line is not said until later, when it has no context.

White Orchid is described as stilled. Initially, this is because he is genuinely pondering Silver's argument. White Orchid is not as bothered by Silver's lack of expressed pity for the colts - he's more emotionally stable, and take the slight. He's also less offended by any suggestion the Changelings might have had a moral right use himself and Mint Marine as foodstuffs. Achieving a more just, harmonic world has already required White Orchid to sacrifice living in a home with a father. It would hardly be surprising that happiness and love itself be sacrificed for the nourishment of others. Where Orchid starts to fall apart is with the references to Comte and the abuse by both Silver and Mint Marine. This causes him distress which he expresses in the form of stillness and a thousand yard stare.

Thus both foals are left crying. Silver tries to order them both to focus on him. White Orchid knows that foals who don't immediately obey adults get smacked or hit with rulers, so he nominally abides the first time Silver asks, and then actually abides the second time. Mint Marine has neither had a father figure, nor has he been broken in by the nuns, so he is less obedient to this old stranger. If anything, defying an adult is a small victory in a life devoid of victories. Thus Mint Marine defies Silver until Silver has his hooves on him.

And that's pretty much it. I just wanted to say what happened as I saw it. I definitely appreciate the time and the effort that was placed into writing the dialogue, and even if the ultimate result was not what was desired, I still think that it is worth it.
\r

>>104240
>>104239
>>104237
Wait a second, you mean there was a right answer to appeal to Mint's emotions in this particular instance? Well shit. I would've never even tried to talk about the changeling youth to no one, and the reason is that it's way too risky to point out the changelings were helped by Silver to two foals whose views are mostly negative.
Orchid could try to defend changelings in the abbey later and promptly make the nuns panic and either make the abbey changeling-sympathizing (unlikely), do nothing and hope nothing happens (most likely, but could attract the attention of any Black Hooves member going for adoption) or snitch the child out in order to protect the others (unlikely). Last option (and middle option if conditions are met) would mean that Silver will be arrested next, along with the names and faces Orchid can remember, for being changeling sympathizers. This leads to most of the party being jailed since changelings are not exactly liked or seen as pony beings here.
In Mint's case, however, I am quite shocked to see he was not actually expressing hatred towards the changelings, but Comte Burgher. I would've thought that the grown ups in his life, no matter how much hate he has for them, would've mentioned the atrocities they caused and poisoned his perception of the bugs. Therefore, my predicition could be flawed. Basically, Mint, hurt by Silver's words, becomes so bitter that he either shines a spotlight on himself for the nuns to worry about (most likely) or goes to the point of ratting out Silver, either spreading it as a rumor or going to the more appealing Black Hooves directly, since he's starting to warm himself up to the idea of joining the strong. Silver goes to jail, which leads to most of the party being jailed.
This is why I was strongly put off by Silver trying to defend the changeling youth. I don't think I could trust a secret with two colts that could act impulsively through typical taunts or other foalish methods to extract the secret out of them. They surely didn't know that the bugs were taken and given love, unlike the colts who were quickly placed back at the place one of them seems to despise.
In any case, this was, fundamentally, a bad idea from the very moment the pony younglings knew that the changeling younglings were taken care of in the good kind of sense. These shark jumps should be more planned in order to ensure that the ponies you want to convince don't rat you out when they are unconvinced. An example of a better approach could be planting two changelings disguised as ponies to befriend Mint and Orchid (which, funnily enough, Kerr and Wesley would be the best canditates.) Sure, they may feel betrayed when they find out they're changelings (even worse if they can recognize them, since they don't need more reminders of being diddled), but they will ultimately feel more conflicted about liking changelings, since they would've had good memories of the bugs to counteract the propaganda, and the ratting out becomes way less likely.

>>104236
"Probably not, no..." Next, he tries 'The Synthetic Mares of the Moon'.

>>104241
Was Iron seeking to leave without PEar, or what is going on there?

>>104242
no commentary on the above?
okay then...

>>104243
Honestly, I don't think she'll like the idea of being escorted by the ponies who are taking part of the history with them, so unless she tries to run up and stick with us, we're probably not going to fetch her.
However, if she does decide to sit with us after Iron does the "I is dead from boop" scene and we rest for a bit more without saying much, maybe she'll ask and we say "I suppose I did say I'd do that," and then we would take her.
Tl;Dr Iron would need Pear's confirmation to be escorted back to civilization, otherwise he'll leave her behind assuming she does not want to be escorted by the pony who's using history for his own gains.

>>104244
...that Tl;Dr wasn't even necessary...
Why do I do this to myself?

>>104244
Okay, I have my own plans

>>104245
Sorry...

>>104248
Okay then...

>>104250
It's alright, man, nothing to feel sorry over.

>>104250
I'll assume you're not ready to game due to work constraints.
When you're ready, say something along the lines of Iron being rested up and ready to move out, along with Cauldron recovering from her stress and bullet wound, and we'll go from that.

>>104248
>>104245
Okay, we’ll just consider the whole experience a write-off then

>>104253
Eh...okay?

>>104254
>>104253
That was unexpected.
Do not be afraid of doing something bad to our characters when we step up to do something we think will succeed just to be proven wrong. Otherwise you'll have to write off almost every action anyone will make.
Also be careful of selective write-offs or the ones you don't save will be frustrated and envious.

>>104253
I have no idea what you mean by "write-off", here.

>>104256
Basically, the whole thing didn't happen and it resets back into Mint talking about bats == vampires or even further back where Mint does not say that.