/vx/ - Videogames and Paranormal

>>103834
"No Sir. Her Eyes turned Green, i asked Her how Chrysalis was. she Said Hail Chrysalis. she shot me in the barrel then i turned her into mush with my shotgun. Then.."
He Turns and looks at Blue
"Miss Skies Her Got me to the hospital, if not for her i would be dead....again."

>>103846
*Miss skies Here

>>103846
"Well, it looks like Miss Skies earned her pay. It seems she identified herself as working under the Hegemony... It's possible that Hegemony agents are working to incite partisans. You know, on the train that was attacked, there was a pony who was completely drained by Changelings, suggesting there were Changelings in that group of rebels that attacked."
Skies: "Or, he met a bar slut, got embarrassed when he was drained and didn't want his wife to know, so he blamed in on the rebel attack..."
Sea Breeze
"There's that possibility as well, but Changeling influence needs to be investigated"

>>103848
"Hmmmmmmmm who was this pony?"

>>103824
Grant and Pear are standing before the entrance to the treasure room, again talking with each other.

>"These frescos tell the story of the rebels after the Equestrian annexation of Tenochtitlan. See how they are carved?"
>"Is it it really fair to call the resting ponies ‘rebels’? The Equestrians were invading."
"The government of Tenochtitlan pledged vassalage before that, so they were fighting against the newly established order."
>"Like a population fighting back against new masters"
"Actually, as this tomb itself shows, many of the rebels were from the highest classes of society, the military and the priesthood."
>"So you say it is two aristocratic classes fighting against each other for dominance."
"I guess if you squint hard enough, you will find something like that. But it was about much more than dominance. It was about what gods could be worshiped."
>"Yes, the conflict is usually characterized as a war of religion. Of course I am familiar with the analysis of Rose Luxenwings that many of these religious wars are wars of competing power structures. The Aristocracy of the Tenochtitlan Basin justified their rule through their worldview and set of gods, and the Equestrians through their respective gods and morality. Of course when they met a differing interpretation of morality they had to fight, as the Equestrian power structure was jeopardized by the competing worldviews"
"I can sort of see where that interpretation is coming from, but it's a gross oversimplification of the motivations of the ponies involved. There were indeed power structures behind each side, but that fact alone does not adequately explain either why the existing noble classes risked their lives to preserve it, or why the common ponies would either support or revolt against a particular viewpoint."
>"Still, that leaves the Equestrians imperializing over ponies who did not share their religion, and a set of ponies fighting for their freedom of worship."
Pear sighs, and begins a long lecture that, to her, makes sense,
Again, that is an interpretation of the conflict that glosses over the important philosophical disagreements of each side and replaces both sides with simple caricatures. The Equestrian moral and religious worldview is one where Harmony is the cornerstone of the Good, and it is a force in the universe just as any other. Moral good and evil are thus parts of the Universe as surely as Truth. Likewise, Good is Good, and Evil is Evil, and thus Goodness is to be spread, and Evil is to be rooted out, or better yet, converted into Good. And because this morality applies to the entire universe, because Celestia is held as the great teacher of Harmony, and because the doctrine of Harmony emphasizes relationships between ponies, it only makes sense that all ponies be brought together in relationship under the Universal principles of Harmony as taught by Celestia. Thus the expansion of the United Tribes of Equestria.

The ponies of Tenochtitlan, by contrast, did not view good and evil as being basic principles of the cosmos, but rather as only things that applied to ponies and certain other creatures. They viewed gods and the bounds of the cosmos as beyond good and evil, and thus could not be judged by it. They viewed the gods as meriting respect because of their control over nature, and thus, meriting worship regardless of whether they were good or bad. They also did not make much of a connection between the divine and the universal, as to them, it sort of made sense for each society to have their own god or set of gods, and thus gods could be particular to nations. Now, the Equestrians thought that some of the gods worshiped by the Tenochtitlan ponies were demons they knew from their own history, and thus needed to be snuffed out, as they thought worship gave power. The ponies of Tenochitlan thought the gods were just as powerful with or without pony help, and so you may as well placate evil gods by worshiping them.
Grant does not seem to have understood all of that, and perhaps did not even hear all of it
>"You say all of that, but in the end it all sounds like killing for abstractions. I find that kind of hard to believe. Ponies don't hide out in caves because of something that abstract, they do it for power, wealth, or class interests. on existent gods generally serve as masks for an upper class for what these class interests generally are. In the case of Equestria, it meant the imperial system itself, and the right of Alicorns and the noble classes to rule over newly integrated populations until they learned to live like the Equestrian old guard, thus perpetuating and expanding Equestrian power"
"No, you don't understand. To these ponies on both sides, gods and Harmony were all too real, and they defined how many of these ponies lived their lives, and thus how they died. It was not a means to power, because that just begs the question of what you are going to do with power. For them, it was their purpose for life."
>"You can't possibly deny that wealth, power, pride and resistance played a part."
"And I don't deny it. Equestrians at that time had pride in the unity of their nation and what they believed to be a divine mandate to bring harmony to all ponies. they wanted to serve their Princess. The ponies of Tenochtitlan had pride in their newly created nation, and their roles in serving it. They did not want to give up their roles, their nation, or their traditions. They fought to preserve their religion and their sovereignty.
>"It still sounds to me like the Equestrians were in the wrong here in trying to force their worldview on the Other."
"But you are presupposing a universal definition of right and wrong, which is what you are criticizing the Equestrians for doing. In any case, take it up with your ancestors"
>"Oh not my ancestors. I'm a unicorn, not a pegasus."
"Of course they're not..."
\r

>>103849
"We don't know, some passenger"

>>103851
Does Dark Star know they are on the train?

>>103852
Who? Brie, Spark, and Onyx? I don’t think he does

>>103850
Iron's ears swivel from Grant's first sentence.
"Oh no. There is history on the pots," he whispers to Cauldron. "This is going to be tougher than expected." Frescos are pots, right?
Seeing how the two entered into another historical discussion, he decides to wait and hear.
(Pear put out that the Tenochtitlan ponies fought the Equestrians due to their differences in god worship. It sounds logical to me.)
He grins to himself.
(Why soften up and control nature when you can let nature mold you into a strong pony? I can see why they would fight back against them, to the point where one could kill because we believe in something they did not.)
Grant's addition does not change Iron's mind a lot, figuring it had a role but it wasn't what motivated a war of this scale.
(To think ponies like them caused ponies like me suffering because we did not believe in the same things. I bet they did not even fought honorably and settled their differences with some hooffights.)
A hard nose exhale follows.
(Remember, they are not the same ponies. They are not the same ponies, Iron. They will not try to subjugate you because you are only one pony that does not have a big difference in the grand scheme of things-)
Ultimately, Pear's recollection seems to be what had inspired the Natives in this area to fight the war for the Native present, but Grant's hoof pointing does sounds like it makes sense.
(They were the ones that decided to take over. They could have simply left them be, but they did not, and their vassalage only cemented the conflict further.)
His gaze turns the slightest bit downwards.
(Perhaps the leader also had a part in this for not consulting with his ponies instead of simply giving them out to a bigger group. He should have known, but why did he pick that path? Was he afraid of the possible blood on his hooves if he declined? Was he tempted by treasure?)

The last comment sounds a bit strange to Iron, releasing him from his lowkey anger at both parties.
"What does Grant mean by 'not his ancestors'?", he whispers to nopony in particular.

>>103853
>>103848
"It Feels "Off" to me"

>>103854
As the two ponies bicker, Iron and Cauldron approach
a ‘fresco’ is a painting on a wall. I meant to say ‘frieze’ which is a sculpted scene kind of like a painting

>>103855
“What do you mean?”

>>103857
"I Don't Know, Something feels Strange About it."

>>103856
Hm. Not sure to ask them questions or go for loot...
Fuck it, question time and a party split-up to ensure pots are safe and sound.
Iron uses his hoof to signal Cauldron to go ahead and ensure the pots are right where they left them.
"I want to ask some questions," he whispers to her, hoping it does not throw a stick in their snare.

Apporaching even further, he meets the two expedition ponies.
"What made the leader sign the vassalage in the first place?"

>>103859
Pear smiles
“Many have asked that question, but I believe I know why. Hayfeather first encountered Pegasi of the Castallion Pegasi nation, one of the United Tribes, and skirmishes occurred. Celestia herself intervened, and decided to visit Hayfeather personally. After their private meeting, Hayfeather decided to accept vassalage. There are several practical reasons he may have done so. Perhaps he was afraid of the threats that faced his nation, like the Quetzalcoatl Empire, and figured they would be stronger together with the other Equestrian tribes. Maybe he was impressed by the wealth trade could bring, or wanted help against more hostile natives or even in power struggles against his own nobility. I think it was something simpler, yet higher. Celestia is said to have a certain charm to her, a motherly quality that gives her an air of natural authority. In the Tenochtitlan religion, the goddess of the Sun hold a special place above all others. It is the sun that brings harvests and warmth, and ultimately life, and it is the sun that must be pleased above all else. And here he was, with the goddess of the sun herself, evidently, drinking coco before him. As if that was not enough, her gait and demeanor suggested she could lead like none else. He may have thought it nothing less than blasphemous to refuse her her place as Suzerain and teacher over his nation. Not only could she raise the sun, bring peace and stability, she could show them a better way of life, through Kindness, Loyalty, Laughter, Generosity, Honesty and Friendship.”

Grant shakes his head, and says his own piece
“The Equestrian ponies were indigenous to Lands far north. The migrated south because of climate change, but in the process became stronger. Unified. And they took with them a very special technology. Iron metallurgy. Something the natives of Tenochtitlan did not have. Thus, when the United Tribes started to expand in all directions, and the Castallions in particular sent expeditions beyond the badlands into Tenochtitlan, they found they could neither properly counter the Pegasi’s flight, nor the Iron armor of the Castallions. Several skirmishes happened, and while Tenochtitlan inflicted losses that were significant upon the small Castallion forces, it was clear who tended to get the better of the fights. The Castallions even raider Tenochtitlan itself before Celestia was called in to mediate. Hayfeather had to then make the hard choice to accept vassalage, rather than a continued war, since it was obvious who would win if more Equestrian forces joined in. Celestia and the United Tribes, for their part, would have rather taken Tenochtitlan as another competing, semi-equal partner than let all the spoils go to one tribe who could become too powerful. Of course, they weren’t really admitted as equals.”
\r

>>103860
The dichotomy between Pear's admitedly cute explanation of a secret fire inside the leader's heart for both her physical visage and what she represented to him to the point where he witnessed what probably the nuns back at the abbey meant, and Grant's gritty viewpoint that also made quite some sense tactic-wise seeing how the bigger tribes, throwing away their honor to ensure victory, leaves Iron with a small grin and frown, emotions swimming around his mind that he can't make sense of.
"What did happen to the United Tribes after the failed vassalage? I thought they would have taken the lands for themselves by now."
(Or maybe they all died due to that disease Pear told me long ago)

>>103861
Pear:
“They are still there. Well, minus the whole Changeling invasion.

When Tenochtitlan was accepted as a vassal, many of the common ponies accepted the situation, perhaps because they were too busy tending to their lives to do anything, perhaps because they agreed with Hayfeather. But a part of the military and priesthood fled to the rainforests away from the city, and started a guerrilla war against both Castallion occupiers and the Tenochtitlan government, and they were joined in this by some of the villagers of these areas. Equestrian soldiers, mostly Castallions, were called in to fight this rebellion. For reasons unknown, but probably relating to either the social upheaval caused by Equestrian contact or the rebellion, a drought occurred in the Tenochtitlan basin, which reduced food output, and the number of sources of water. This combined with newly introduced livestock and changes to agriculture that placed these livestock in closer contact with ponies, that probably caused the few remaining water sources to become contaminated. A disease that has never been indefinite, but resembles typhoid, spread and killed vast numbers of ponies, definitely a majority of the native population. Eventually, the revolt was put down, and inquisitors were called in to make certain the threat was contained.

All the while, there were skirmishes with other native tribes. The Marexica of Tenochtitlan were and are the largest native tribe, and one of the few to live in civilized cities at that time. But they are not the only Neighuatl speaking native tribe in the jungles, and these other tribes continued to skirmish with both parties. They had done so centuries before Equestrian contact, and would continue to do so centuries later, sometimes rebelling after being subjugated. Eventually, Equestrian settlers moved in to settlements on the south and Western coasts of the south east if the Equus continent. The United Tribes still exist... kind of, as does the city of Tenochtitlan, albeit transformed by time.”

>>103862
Iron nods at this new nugget of information, somewhat transfixed. Pear has awoken the colt in Iron.
"So do you mean that the cities themselves are still lived in but are now filled with non-Natives? Why would they start to live here again when a lot of ponies died from disease? Did they know what caused it? Did they only need to move the livestock elsewhere and not have a drought?"
Hopefully Cauldron can wake him up of his childish stupor.
Unless she doesn't want to.

>>103844
Well, I certainly fell asleep.

Silver doesn't know if Mint is talking about changelings as a species or the Changeling nation.

>>103863
“No, this region is more native. At least it seems to be. Unlike with populations of Griffins, it’s a bit harder to tell whether a population replacement has taken place. They lived here after the disease because the disease affected the entire drainage basin. There was no where else to go, except into forests that were often unfriendly, and did not necessarily have food. In any event, they saw the plague as divine, and did not think hiding or running would save them. Every city has been subject to epidemic at some point or another, be it Cholera, Cutie Pox, Sleeping Sickness, Typhoid, Purple Plague, or Potomac Fever. They did not know what caused it, but our best guess now is that it was some kind of waterborne illness that came from non-pony creatures, and spread because of the change in farming and the drought meaning more water sources were contaminated. The disease killed over a span of three days or less by causing tissue fissures and bleeding in internal organs, which resulted in bleeding through every orifice of the body. The natives had no immunity to it, while the Castallions were confused and generally thought it was Typhoid.”

>>103868
Silly Silver, everypony (and everybug) knows that they are the same thing

>>103870
Iron blinks in confusion.
"I do wander why the gods made them suffer that, though. Were they getting too weak and stable, only threat being amongst themselves and not nature itself?"

>>103871
Grant:
“Humph! It was not gods who did it, but none other than the Equestrian government and society”

>>103872
Iron looks at Grant like a newborn who heard something brand new.
"How do you know it was them and not the ones above us?"

>>103873
He looks at Iron with a very serious expression
“In a way... it was the ones ‘above you’ in that it was the malfeasance of a ruling class.”

>>103874
Iron nods, knowing what he said is right to some extent.
"While I do not think gods rule in a direct sense, they did let it happen."

>>103875
“Pfft! The Equestrians didn’t need the permission of any phantom gods to do as they did. By the contrary, they felt quite entitled to speak for the gods.”

>>103876
He shakes his head.
(What a stubborn pony.)
"Do keep in mind that the gods led us here and saved your flank from being a bandit's toy."

>>103877
“Heh, if you say so”

Pear blurts out:
“The Equestrians only intended to spread Harmony”

Grant retorts
“And they ended up spreading only misery”

>>103878
Iron's left eye twitches.
(This pony...)

Although Grant does make sense, he feels deep within himself that something else caused it.
"Perhaps this idea of harmony was only a ruse to trick them into letting their guard down. Maybe the Equestrians in charge misused it to further their own gains."

>>103878
>>103877
>>103879
Black Cauldron, who until now has remained uninvolved in the matter, asserts
“I don’t imagine Celestia as power hungry or imperialistic...”

Grant does not directly respond to Cauldron, but answers Iron
“We know for sure many of the lower level ponies did. General Highview’s decision to centralize many settlements in particular ended terribly”

Pear:
“They were centralized to make them easier to defend from rebels and other tribes”

Grant:
“And to make them easier to administer and see who was worshiping what”

Pear:
“That too...”

Grant:
“And all the same, it help the disease spread in crowded villages where livestock were within defensive walls”

Pear:
“But they didn’t know - couldn’t know - how the disease would spread”
...

>>103880
Iron blinks at Cauldron's presence.
(Was she here this whole time? Maybe I got too engrossed with the talk to notice her walking in and out and checking the pots.)

Iron simply looks slightly defeated at this discussion.
(Why can these things not be solved by hoof to hoof combat?)
"Grant does make some sense, but Pear is right in them not knowing unless we think the Equestrians intentionally poisoned the population."

>>103881
Something something “Cutie Pox blankets,” something something that only happened once, in a besieged fortress much further north and to a different population than the Marexica, blah blah blah

Grant: “so Dr. Faucet tells me you have already removed some items?”

>>103882
Kek.
Iron nods.
"Nothing of historical value."

>>103883
“And how did you ascertain that?”

>>103884
"Because it does not have any drawings or writing on it."
Iron shrugs.
"Besides, the frescos you mentioned give a pretty clear picture even to me, so you have that part covered."

>>103885
He looks over to Pear for some kind of support:
“I saw coins placed in pots, and several masks”

Grant:
“Coins? Coins provide available insight as to what time the the events took place, and can also tell archeologists who was trading with who. Masks are also of great historical importance, because they tell us about religious practices and customs.”

>>103886
Iron nods.
"I see. This means you need about... 5 coins at most from each pot and perhaps some of the masks."
He leans over to Cauldron.
"What would those masks cost again?" he whispers to his partner.

>>103887
Cauldron
“I don’t even know”

Grant:
“Hardly, as any coin could be a view into the world at the time. What if the one coin that would show trade with Somnambula is not among that five? Then we would be deprived of the important historical knowledge”

>>103888
Well that mask part is boggled.
"Seeing how these bandits pretty much perished at overall equal times, it is highly likely they have not used more than two types of coins to trade with others."
(I hope that makes sense. I think I am going to intimidate rather quickly if not.)

>>103889
“You misunderstand. These coins are not from the bandits, but from the Marexican rebels. The question is whether any coins from foreign countries entered and are among the horde. In any event, these all belong in a museum for public viewing”

>>103890
Iron squints his eyes at Grant's last part. "You do realize that me and my partner allowed all four of us to even reach this far."
He puffs out his chest to show his collection of bullet wounds.
"You may say that your female partner guided us here, but if we did not clear the bandits we would not be having this discussion right now and you would have been killed and thrown into a ditch like the other members of your team after you stopped being useful and Pear would be either coweing in fear, lost in the jungle or in civilization empty hoofed."
He breathes in.
"I am being quite generous in allowing to part ways with some coins to begin with, so I would say you take the deal. If you really want to, you can inspect the inside of pots and those other two improvised ones repurposed as one for any foreign coins."

>>103891
This quiets Grant for more than a moment, and he physically back away
“I cannot deny that you and... this fine mare have been more than a little helpful. It seems that a finders fee may be in order”

>>103892
Iron simply cocks his eyebrow.
"What do you propose, then?"
Is the pic Pear's face? Man, I'm not going to have her in a positive relationship anytime soon.

>>103893
Yes. Yes it is.
“Well, perhaps a 10% return on any gain netted after we get back to Baltimare, and a mention in the papers”

>>103894
Sorry, Pear. I promised Cauldron some good money to keep her around for this quest and I'm not going to break my word.
Iron simply deadpans at the poor trade.
"10 percent? Do you take me for a fool? You will take 5 percent while I take 95 percent, otherwise I will simply take the pots with me and leave you two behind. After all, you have all of the temple ripe for finding historical knowledge. Some chalices in the river and some dropped coins scattered inside the temple to pick up, too. You can take away the mention in the papers. I will not hold it against you."
Iron leans towards Cauldron again.
"Do you think they might accept only to break their part of the deal?" he whispers to the street-wise zebra.

>>103895
Cauldron, whispering:
“He made some kind of deal with those bandits, and didn’t care when they were shot in front of him. I have no idea what he thinks, but I can almost guarantee you whatever happens, the first ponies he talks to in Saltmane will be the Territorial Police. I don’t think he intended to honor his deal with the Bandits.”

Grant:
“95%?! Good heavens, that’s absurd, and most definitely out of custom for finders payments”

>>103896
Iron nods.
"It seems we might need to eliminate him."
Good thing Iron shouldn't appear in any sort of Baltimare records. Cauldron could be found out, so... I might be forced into doing something naughty to the stallion. Let's see what he does next
Iron shrugs.
"Fine then. I will go on my merry way and pick all of those pots up. Be sure to pick up the coins on the floor. Maybe they might be what you are looking for."
He starts walking to where he assumes the pots are, ears on alert and ready to be interrupted by anything.

>>103897
That first line is a whisper to Cauldron.

>>103897
Cauldrons ears perk up

Grant:
“You can’t do that! These are historical artifacts that belong in a museum!”