IIT we discuss and study the Bible. I will be using the King James Version and will take the stance of a fundamental literalist, which is a bit redundant, but these days there exist many that claim to be fundamental but reject the literal interpretation of Scripture when they encounter something they don't agree or understand. I am not a Bible scholar, I'm not a pastor, I don't currently attend any denomination's church service. I'm just an anon that really like to study the Bible. Feel free to argue with me, I could be completely wrong and I hope to learn more about the Bible along the way.
I will post below my first study topic and what I have researched about it. Hopefully it will be interesting and somewhat engaging.
/ub/ - Überhengst
Becoming better
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2 Corinthians 3:6 Who also hath made us able ministers of the new testament; not of the letter, but of the spirit: for the letter killeth, but the spirit giveth life.
(A selection from the Bible before the next section.)
We're going to be going through the Bible in spirit.
<When you feel The Holy Spirit moving as you read, letters jumping off the page, new and old connections. I'd like to say thanks, for He is trustworthy.
Each section a line(s) pulled out to consider as we read.
>For therein is the righteousness of God revealed from faith to faith: as it is written, The just shall live by faith.
Starting at Romans.
Romans 1
King James Version
>1 Paul, a servant of Jesus Christ, called to be an apostle, separated unto the gospel of God,
>2 (Which he had promised afore by his prophets in the holy scriptures,)
>3 Concerning his Son Jesus Christ our Lord, which was made of the seed of David according to the flesh;
>4 And declared to be the Son of God with power, according to the spirit of holiness, by the resurrection from the dead:
>5 By whom we have received grace and apostleship, for obedience to the faith among all nations, for his name:
>6 Among whom are ye also the called of Jesus Christ:
>7 To all that be in Rome, beloved of God, called to be saints: Grace to you and peace from God our Father, and the Lord Jesus Christ.
>8 First, I thank my God through Jesus Christ for you all, that your faith is spoken of throughout the whole world.
>9 For God is my witness, whom I serve with my spirit in the gospel of his Son, that without ceasing I make mention of you always in my prayers;
>10 Making request, if by any means now at length I might have a prosperous journey by the will of God to come unto you.
>11 For I long to see you, that I may impart unto you some spiritual gift, to the end ye may be established;
>12 That is, that I may be comforted together with you by the mutual faith both of you and me.
>13 Now I would not have you ignorant, brethren, that oftentimes I purposed to come unto you, (but was let hitherto,) that I might have some fruit among you also, even as among other Gentiles.
>14 I am debtor both to the Greeks, and to the Barbarians; both to the wise, and to the unwise.
>15 So, as much as in me is, I am ready to preach the gospel to you that are at Rome also.
>16 For I am not ashamed of the gospel of Christ: for it is the power of God unto salvation to every one that believeth; to the Jew first, and also to the Greek.
>17 For therein is the righteousness of God revealed from faith to faith: as it is written, The just shall live by faith.
>18 For the wrath of God is revealed from heaven against all ungodliness and unrighteousness of men, who hold the truth in unrighteousness;
>19 Because that which may be known of God is manifest in them; for God hath shewed it unto them.
>20 For the invisible things of him from the creation of the world are clearly seen, being understood by the things that are made, even his eternal power and Godhead; so that they are without excuse:
>21 Because that, when they knew God, they glorified him not as God, neither were thankful; but became vain in their imaginations, and their foolish heart was darkened.
>22 Professing themselves to be wise, they became fools,
>23 And changed the glory of the uncorruptible God into an image made like to corruptible man, and to birds, and fourfooted beasts, and creeping things.
>24 Wherefore God also gave them up to uncleanness through the lusts of their own hearts, to dishonour their own bodies between themselves:
>25 Who changed the truth of God into a lie, and worshipped and served the creature more than the Creator, who is blessed for ever. Amen.
>26 For this cause God gave them up unto vile affections: for even their women did change the natural use into that which is against nature:
>27 And likewise also the men, leaving the natural use of the woman, burned in their lust one toward another; men with men working that which is unseemly, and receiving in themselves that recompence of their error which was meet.
>28 And even as they did not like to retain God in their knowledge, God gave them over to a reprobate mind, to do those things which are not convenient;
>29 Being filled with all unrighteousness, fornication, wickedness, covetousness, maliciousness; full of envy, murder, debate, deceit, malignity; whisperers,
>30 Backbiters, haters of God, despiteful, proud, boasters, inventors of evil things, disobedient to parents,
>31 Without understanding, covenantbreakers, without natural affection, implacable, unmerciful:
>32 Who knowing the judgment of God, that they which commit such things are worthy of death, not only do the same, but have pleasure in them that do them.
It's impossible for fallen man to please God as God deserves in any other way besides faith in (and through) Jesus.
This first section looks to summarise Jesus, God and what happened in the Old Testament.
The beginning is a preface for the rest of the letter.
Who Paul is, who the letter is for.
The Good News written because he is not able to make it to Rome in person.
<23-32
This also shows how and why God gives what they desire and that too is punishment. They desired to be even further away from God.
To be as far away as possible and deserving of all that befalls on them.
Looks like it's all doom now as the impossibility of righting a broken relationship is out of their hands.
Which at the lowest point Paul shares the Good News in the next section if I'm correctly recalling.
(A selection from the Bible before the next section.)
We're going to be going through the Bible in spirit.
<When you feel The Holy Spirit moving as you read, letters jumping off the page, new and old connections. I'd like to say thanks, for He is trustworthy.
Each section a line(s) pulled out to consider as we read.
>For therein is the righteousness of God revealed from faith to faith: as it is written, The just shall live by faith.
Starting at Romans.
Romans 1
King James Version
>1 Paul, a servant of Jesus Christ, called to be an apostle, separated unto the gospel of God,
>2 (Which he had promised afore by his prophets in the holy scriptures,)
>3 Concerning his Son Jesus Christ our Lord, which was made of the seed of David according to the flesh;
>4 And declared to be the Son of God with power, according to the spirit of holiness, by the resurrection from the dead:
>5 By whom we have received grace and apostleship, for obedience to the faith among all nations, for his name:
>6 Among whom are ye also the called of Jesus Christ:
>7 To all that be in Rome, beloved of God, called to be saints: Grace to you and peace from God our Father, and the Lord Jesus Christ.
>8 First, I thank my God through Jesus Christ for you all, that your faith is spoken of throughout the whole world.
>9 For God is my witness, whom I serve with my spirit in the gospel of his Son, that without ceasing I make mention of you always in my prayers;
>10 Making request, if by any means now at length I might have a prosperous journey by the will of God to come unto you.
>11 For I long to see you, that I may impart unto you some spiritual gift, to the end ye may be established;
>12 That is, that I may be comforted together with you by the mutual faith both of you and me.
>13 Now I would not have you ignorant, brethren, that oftentimes I purposed to come unto you, (but was let hitherto,) that I might have some fruit among you also, even as among other Gentiles.
>14 I am debtor both to the Greeks, and to the Barbarians; both to the wise, and to the unwise.
>15 So, as much as in me is, I am ready to preach the gospel to you that are at Rome also.
>16 For I am not ashamed of the gospel of Christ: for it is the power of God unto salvation to every one that believeth; to the Jew first, and also to the Greek.
>17 For therein is the righteousness of God revealed from faith to faith: as it is written, The just shall live by faith.
>18 For the wrath of God is revealed from heaven against all ungodliness and unrighteousness of men, who hold the truth in unrighteousness;
>19 Because that which may be known of God is manifest in them; for God hath shewed it unto them.
>20 For the invisible things of him from the creation of the world are clearly seen, being understood by the things that are made, even his eternal power and Godhead; so that they are without excuse:
>21 Because that, when they knew God, they glorified him not as God, neither were thankful; but became vain in their imaginations, and their foolish heart was darkened.
>22 Professing themselves to be wise, they became fools,
>23 And changed the glory of the uncorruptible God into an image made like to corruptible man, and to birds, and fourfooted beasts, and creeping things.
>24 Wherefore God also gave them up to uncleanness through the lusts of their own hearts, to dishonour their own bodies between themselves:
>25 Who changed the truth of God into a lie, and worshipped and served the creature more than the Creator, who is blessed for ever. Amen.
>26 For this cause God gave them up unto vile affections: for even their women did change the natural use into that which is against nature:
>27 And likewise also the men, leaving the natural use of the woman, burned in their lust one toward another; men with men working that which is unseemly, and receiving in themselves that recompence of their error which was meet.
>28 And even as they did not like to retain God in their knowledge, God gave them over to a reprobate mind, to do those things which are not convenient;
>29 Being filled with all unrighteousness, fornication, wickedness, covetousness, maliciousness; full of envy, murder, debate, deceit, malignity; whisperers,
>30 Backbiters, haters of God, despiteful, proud, boasters, inventors of evil things, disobedient to parents,
>31 Without understanding, covenantbreakers, without natural affection, implacable, unmerciful:
>32 Who knowing the judgment of God, that they which commit such things are worthy of death, not only do the same, but have pleasure in them that do them.
It's impossible for fallen man to please God as God deserves in any other way besides faith in (and through) Jesus.
This first section looks to summarise Jesus, God and what happened in the Old Testament.
The beginning is a preface for the rest of the letter.
Who Paul is, who the letter is for.
The Good News written because he is not able to make it to Rome in person.
<23-32
This also shows how and why God gives what they desire and that too is punishment. They desired to be even further away from God.
To be as far away as possible and deserving of all that befalls on them.
Looks like it's all doom now as the impossibility of righting a broken relationship is out of their hands.
Which at the lowest point Paul shares the Good News in the next section if I'm correctly recalling.
>>7114
>>7116
You are literally too retarded to realize I am OP and previously answered you way back here
>>6868
Which does NOT support the truthfulness of the Bible. You probably don't even remember because you only copy/paste everything and don't read my posts as you look for more articles. You are asking the OP you are spamming with random images to kill himself. Take that in. You have your own specified spam thread allowed by the staff and you come here to post more, do a shit job copying/pasting, get called out, and I am the problem for hosting a BIBLE STUDY thread and not wanting an image that says "I have insider information" as that helps the BIBLE STUDY so much.
>>7123
I literally mentioned this in my response. I said that should you ignore your image and just read the actual content of your post, you advocated for the opposite of the image. This is a bad job on your part, because you offered nothing of substance to your post. Return to your containment if you aren't going to either study the Bible or debate Bible stuff. Your articles do nothing for this thread because you refuse to engage.
>>7124
>why not post the conclusion
Exactly my point.
>>7127
And apparently copy/pasting the correct portion of the article is too hard for you.
>>7130
>WAHHHH
>YOU HAVE TO APOLOGIZE
How about apologizing for not staying in your lane with your content? You promised to stay there with this shit. If you post an article and want answers, I want engagement. You have proven I have been typing into the void as you didn't read a single thing I have posted.
>>7116
You are literally too retarded to realize I am OP and previously answered you way back here
>>6868
Which does NOT support the truthfulness of the Bible. You probably don't even remember because you only copy/paste everything and don't read my posts as you look for more articles. You are asking the OP you are spamming with random images to kill himself. Take that in. You have your own specified spam thread allowed by the staff and you come here to post more, do a shit job copying/pasting, get called out, and I am the problem for hosting a BIBLE STUDY thread and not wanting an image that says "I have insider information" as that helps the BIBLE STUDY so much.
>>7123
I literally mentioned this in my response. I said that should you ignore your image and just read the actual content of your post, you advocated for the opposite of the image. This is a bad job on your part, because you offered nothing of substance to your post. Return to your containment if you aren't going to either study the Bible or debate Bible stuff. Your articles do nothing for this thread because you refuse to engage.
>>7124
>why not post the conclusion
Exactly my point.
>>7127
And apparently copy/pasting the correct portion of the article is too hard for you.
>>7130
>WAHHHH
>YOU HAVE TO APOLOGIZE
How about apologizing for not staying in your lane with your content? You promised to stay there with this shit. If you post an article and want answers, I want engagement. You have proven I have been typing into the void as you didn't read a single thing I have posted.
>>7141
>>7143
Post count does not need to go up. If you are hard wired to make number bigger, do not use this thread unless you intend to actually study the Bible, ask questions because you are curious about the answer, or intend to debate Biblical doctrine. You can post your articles in your specialized threads in your own location. You bumped this thread to my utter disappointment because you had no intention to actually interact. I always perk up to this thread only to realize each and every time that no one actually gives a shit and you use this as more territory for yourself and yourself alone.
>>7143
Post count does not need to go up. If you are hard wired to make number bigger, do not use this thread unless you intend to actually study the Bible, ask questions because you are curious about the answer, or intend to debate Biblical doctrine. You can post your articles in your specialized threads in your own location. You bumped this thread to my utter disappointment because you had no intention to actually interact. I always perk up to this thread only to realize each and every time that no one actually gives a shit and you use this as more territory for yourself and yourself alone.
>>3411
cucKing (((James))) banned the word: "tyrant" from the (((jew-king yames))) version, particularly """jeremiah 15:21""". Yet, hilariously, "tyrant" was used in the (((geneva))) version. Not only that, the word """witch""" was never used outside of the cucKing (((james))) version; all others used the word 'poisoner'.
Stay sheepled.
cucKing (((James))) banned the word: "tyrant" from the (((jew-king yames))) version, particularly """jeremiah 15:21""". Yet, hilariously, "tyrant" was used in the (((geneva))) version. Not only that, the word """witch""" was never used outside of the cucKing (((james))) version; all others used the word 'poisoner'.
Stay sheepled.
>>7306
One of these days, someone will actually want to use my thread for a Bible study and not bump it with trash. Or maybe not. Let's tackle your highly sourced refutation of the Bible.
There is no word tyrant and witch is used. Wow. Excellent work. The whole Bible is now useless. But let's examine this part by part and not just take your word for it and we will get a clear understanding if there is a flaw at all.
Jeremiah 15:21 from the King James Bible
And I will deliver thee out of the hand of the wicked, and I will redeem thee out of the hand of the terrible.
Terrible from the day this was written in was not simply a denotation of badness, but the root of the word was focused on, terror. Terrible can be a good thing in rare circumstances, most familiarly to fans of the Lord of the Rings movies. In Fellowship of the Ring, Galadriel states she will be "terrible as the dawn". The dawn is not something that normally inspires fear or something that is understood as bad. Instead she is stating that it will be as notable as this event, the power associated with the dawn. Is this what the verse is indicating in context?
I believe that it is actually in line with the classic meaning. Someone that is terrible is projecting terror upon others, specifically God saving you from those that have you in their hands. Thus, this is a synonym for tyrant, as the tyrant instills terror upon the people in his hand, or under his power.
But let's examine further what both translation offer in comparison to the original scripts.
Jeremiah 15:21 from the Geneva Bible
And I will deliver thee out of the hand of the wicked, and I will redeem thee out of the hand of the tyrants.
But perhaps it looks too much like an edit to save face for the king. If the original script says tyrant specifically, there can be no excuse.
Jeremiah 15:21 from the Greek Septuagint translation of the Hebrew Bible
"καὶ ἐξαιρεῖσθαί σε ἐκ χειρὸς πονηρῶν καὶ λυτρώσομαί σε ἐκ χειρὸς λοιμῶν."
The word we are looking for is λοιμῶν, which translates to pestilence, a pest, or a public menace.
Oops. You just saw the change without looking into the original text. The King James version just translated public menace as terrible ones and the Geneva version translated it tyrants completely independently of each other by looking for a good word to describe pests that have power over people.
I will assume the same exists for witch as well. You provide no quotes for that, but I will find some for you.
Galatians 5:20 from the King James Bible
Idolatry, witchcraft, hatred, variance, emulations, wrath, strife, seditions, heresies,
Let's compare.
Galatians 5:20 from the Geneva Bible
20 Idolatry, witchcraft, hatred, debate, emulations, wrath, contentions, seditions, heresies,
WAIT A SECOND
There is the word witch. You said it was only in the King James version. Where the fuck are you getting your information from? At least let me read the article you regurgitated you fucking retard. But maybe the witch in witchcraft doesn't count. Maybe it needs to be the sole word witch on its own.
Deuteronomy 18:10 from the Geneva Bible
There shall not be found among you any one that maketh his son or his daughter to pass through the fire, or that useth divination, or an observer of times, or an enchanter, or a witch,
Let's compare.
Deuteronomy 18:10 from the Geneva Bible
Let none be found among you that maketh his son or his daughter to go through the fire, or that useth witchcraft, or a regarder of times, or a marker of the flying of fowls, or a sorcerer,
It used the word witchcraft again. I will find one more instance where the word witch is used in the King James alone, because it seems to be the only time it is used alone besides Deuteronomy.
Exodus 22:18 from the King James Bible
Thou shalt not suffer a witch to live.
Comparing time.
Exodus 22:18 from the Geneva Bible
Thou shalt not suffer a witch to live.
You sir, are a fucking liar. What a joke. Please share where you discovered this shit so I can pick it apart more, because this is top grade retardation.
What you could have argued was the original text.
Exodus 22:18 from the Greek Septuagint translation of the Hebrew Bible
φαρμακοὺς οὐ περιποιήσετε.
The word φαρμακοὺς means sorcerer, magician, or one that practices medicines to similar intended magical effect. We get the word pharmacy from this word. So, in a way, the word poisoner wouldn't be the worst of translations, because witches were known to brew medicines for desired magical effect, often poisoning people that took it.
In the end, you were wrong about every point you brought up. What a waste of your time, my time, and everyone's time because you couldn't research this yourself.
One of these days, someone will actually want to use my thread for a Bible study and not bump it with trash. Or maybe not. Let's tackle your highly sourced refutation of the Bible.
There is no word tyrant and witch is used. Wow. Excellent work. The whole Bible is now useless. But let's examine this part by part and not just take your word for it and we will get a clear understanding if there is a flaw at all.
Jeremiah 15:21 from the King James Bible
And I will deliver thee out of the hand of the wicked, and I will redeem thee out of the hand of the terrible.
Terrible from the day this was written in was not simply a denotation of badness, but the root of the word was focused on, terror. Terrible can be a good thing in rare circumstances, most familiarly to fans of the Lord of the Rings movies. In Fellowship of the Ring, Galadriel states she will be "terrible as the dawn". The dawn is not something that normally inspires fear or something that is understood as bad. Instead she is stating that it will be as notable as this event, the power associated with the dawn. Is this what the verse is indicating in context?
I believe that it is actually in line with the classic meaning. Someone that is terrible is projecting terror upon others, specifically God saving you from those that have you in their hands. Thus, this is a synonym for tyrant, as the tyrant instills terror upon the people in his hand, or under his power.
But let's examine further what both translation offer in comparison to the original scripts.
Jeremiah 15:21 from the Geneva Bible
And I will deliver thee out of the hand of the wicked, and I will redeem thee out of the hand of the tyrants.
But perhaps it looks too much like an edit to save face for the king. If the original script says tyrant specifically, there can be no excuse.
Jeremiah 15:21 from the Greek Septuagint translation of the Hebrew Bible
"καὶ ἐξαιρεῖσθαί σε ἐκ χειρὸς πονηρῶν καὶ λυτρώσομαί σε ἐκ χειρὸς λοιμῶν."
The word we are looking for is λοιμῶν, which translates to pestilence, a pest, or a public menace.
Oops. You just saw the change without looking into the original text. The King James version just translated public menace as terrible ones and the Geneva version translated it tyrants completely independently of each other by looking for a good word to describe pests that have power over people.
I will assume the same exists for witch as well. You provide no quotes for that, but I will find some for you.
Galatians 5:20 from the King James Bible
Idolatry, witchcraft, hatred, variance, emulations, wrath, strife, seditions, heresies,
Let's compare.
Galatians 5:20 from the Geneva Bible
20 Idolatry, witchcraft, hatred, debate, emulations, wrath, contentions, seditions, heresies,
WAIT A SECOND
There is the word witch. You said it was only in the King James version. Where the fuck are you getting your information from? At least let me read the article you regurgitated you fucking retard. But maybe the witch in witchcraft doesn't count. Maybe it needs to be the sole word witch on its own.
Deuteronomy 18:10 from the Geneva Bible
There shall not be found among you any one that maketh his son or his daughter to pass through the fire, or that useth divination, or an observer of times, or an enchanter, or a witch,
Let's compare.
Deuteronomy 18:10 from the Geneva Bible
Let none be found among you that maketh his son or his daughter to go through the fire, or that useth witchcraft, or a regarder of times, or a marker of the flying of fowls, or a sorcerer,
It used the word witchcraft again. I will find one more instance where the word witch is used in the King James alone, because it seems to be the only time it is used alone besides Deuteronomy.
Exodus 22:18 from the King James Bible
Thou shalt not suffer a witch to live.
Comparing time.
Exodus 22:18 from the Geneva Bible
Thou shalt not suffer a witch to live.
You sir, are a fucking liar. What a joke. Please share where you discovered this shit so I can pick it apart more, because this is top grade retardation.
What you could have argued was the original text.
Exodus 22:18 from the Greek Septuagint translation of the Hebrew Bible
φαρμακοὺς οὐ περιποιήσετε.
The word φαρμακοὺς means sorcerer, magician, or one that practices medicines to similar intended magical effect. We get the word pharmacy from this word. So, in a way, the word poisoner wouldn't be the worst of translations, because witches were known to brew medicines for desired magical effect, often poisoning people that took it.
In the end, you were wrong about every point you brought up. What a waste of your time, my time, and everyone's time because you couldn't research this yourself.
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>>7308
Oh man, looking at it more closely - what a great thread! I'll be going through everything in detail and asking some questions later.
For now though, there's something I hope to get help with:
An old friend of mine (we had drifted apart over the years) had "retreated into his shell" when I sent him a letter with well-sourced warnings/articles about the injection, just before they became available. To be honest, despite "meaning well" there was arrogance on my part at simply "expecting" him to process that information and make the choice I thought he'd make - my arrogance was partly fueled by my own waves of feeling intimidated on occasion and still refusing to fully confront the whole reality of such serious events beyond my control. (Standing strong in the face of accelerating end times events is quite a challenge.)
In hindsight, this may have even contributed towards his decision to get it (which he did), possibly due to him becoming even more "intimidated" by the scale of evil around him - not being able to "handle" some very confronting facts. He broke off all contact with me, and had become the most broken and inwardly-hurting man I had ever seen (although apparently this was going on for years before, possibly exacerbated by some persistent bad human elements/relations in his life that he wouldn't address). His inner pain and suffering is getting stronger and it's starting to manifest as serious physical ailments/diseases that could lead to his death soon.
TL;DR: He embraces and believes "in the Matrix", and is bound/married to it. Perhaps he even wants to die, but has a crippling fear of dying.
I don't want to repeat the same mistake when approaching him again regarding Christianity - he's a member of a church that teaches "judeo-christian" feel-good BS and it's part of his "shell" that he's built around himself.
I was going to send him a heartfelt and apologetic letter, retracting my arrogance and explaining my feelings with humbleness. Also included with the letter would be burned CDs of some selected sermons by Pastor Marrs from Bible Home Church, where he talks about finding freedom and relief from fear.
My friend has so much fear and intimidation inside of him, I don't think he's saved, but who am I to just blurt it out to him or disrupt his shell that he clings on to so much - he has his own life, and judging by outward appearances it's a good one.
We've both been through a lot and I don't want him to suffer, but despite further introspection still don't feel "qualified" to assist him - especially since I'm still "suffering/injured" in various ways myself and not the shining hero-example that a small part of him still appears to be looking for. In addition, his character-type moves towards his abusers (and still suffers/digs-up from events decades ago, and looks to peers/the-crowd for validation/judgement), my character-type moves away from abusers (and remains independent), but we both "glance behind us" at times and in most ways we're very "far apart" now.
TL;DR: Do you have experience in reaching out to someone like that, or know of some Bible passages or sermons or pastors (or maybe "heroes") that can help my suffering friend? If not, no pressure - I'll default to my own idea.
Oh man, looking at it more closely - what a great thread! I'll be going through everything in detail and asking some questions later.
For now though, there's something I hope to get help with:
An old friend of mine (we had drifted apart over the years) had "retreated into his shell" when I sent him a letter with well-sourced warnings/articles about the injection, just before they became available. To be honest, despite "meaning well" there was arrogance on my part at simply "expecting" him to process that information and make the choice I thought he'd make - my arrogance was partly fueled by my own waves of feeling intimidated on occasion and still refusing to fully confront the whole reality of such serious events beyond my control. (Standing strong in the face of accelerating end times events is quite a challenge.)
In hindsight, this may have even contributed towards his decision to get it (which he did), possibly due to him becoming even more "intimidated" by the scale of evil around him - not being able to "handle" some very confronting facts. He broke off all contact with me, and had become the most broken and inwardly-hurting man I had ever seen (although apparently this was going on for years before, possibly exacerbated by some persistent bad human elements/relations in his life that he wouldn't address). His inner pain and suffering is getting stronger and it's starting to manifest as serious physical ailments/diseases that could lead to his death soon.
TL;DR: He embraces and believes "in the Matrix", and is bound/married to it. Perhaps he even wants to die, but has a crippling fear of dying.
I don't want to repeat the same mistake when approaching him again regarding Christianity - he's a member of a church that teaches "judeo-christian" feel-good BS and it's part of his "shell" that he's built around himself.
I was going to send him a heartfelt and apologetic letter, retracting my arrogance and explaining my feelings with humbleness. Also included with the letter would be burned CDs of some selected sermons by Pastor Marrs from Bible Home Church, where he talks about finding freedom and relief from fear.
My friend has so much fear and intimidation inside of him, I don't think he's saved, but who am I to just blurt it out to him or disrupt his shell that he clings on to so much - he has his own life, and judging by outward appearances it's a good one.
We've both been through a lot and I don't want him to suffer, but despite further introspection still don't feel "qualified" to assist him - especially since I'm still "suffering/injured" in various ways myself and not the shining hero-example that a small part of him still appears to be looking for. In addition, his character-type moves towards his abusers (and still suffers/digs-up from events decades ago, and looks to peers/the-crowd for validation/judgement), my character-type moves away from abusers (and remains independent), but we both "glance behind us" at times and in most ways we're very "far apart" now.
TL;DR: Do you have experience in reaching out to someone like that, or know of some Bible passages or sermons or pastors (or maybe "heroes") that can help my suffering friend? If not, no pressure - I'll default to my own idea.
>>7310
Unfortunately, I have no experience of success in reaching others. I don't really have the charisma that is required to get people to listen and consider application. I can share what I know about the Bible though.
People that are consumed by fear are in a struggling relationship with God, if not devoid of the relationship altogether.
Herein is our love made perfect, that we may have boldness in the day of judgment: because as he is, so are we in this world.
1 John 4:18-21
There is no fear in love; but perfect love casteth out fear: because fear hath torment. He that feareth is not made perfect in love.
19We love him, because he first loved us.
20If a man say, I love God, and hateth his brother, he is a liar: for he that loveth not his brother whom he hath seen, how can he love God whom he hath not seen?
21And this commandment have we from him, That he who loveth God love his brother also.
The desire to fit in with the world in fear of losing something valuable is natural, as it strikes the hearts of the prophets as well. Elijah was gifted with miracles to present to the people that had abandoned God.
1 Kings 18:36-39
And it came to pass at the time of the offering of the evening sacrifice, that Elijah the prophet came near, and said, LORD God of Abraham, Isaac, and of Israel, let it be known this day that thou art God in Israel, and that I am thy servant, and that I have done all these things at thy word.
37Hear me, O LORD, hear me, that this people may know that thou art the LORD God, and that thou hast turned their heart back again.
38Then the fire of the LORD fell, and consumed the burnt sacrifice, and the wood, and the stones, and the dust, and licked up the water that was in the trench.
39And when all the people saw it, they fell on their faces: and they said, The LORD, he is the God; the LORD, he is the God.
Yet, after this display, the king of Israel was mad that he disproved his favorite false god of Baal, as his wife was pagan. The wife demanded the head of Elijah for crimes against the gods and so he ran.
1 Kings 19:9-15
And he came thither unto a cave, and lodged there; and, behold, the word of the LORD came to him, and he said unto him, What doest thou here, Elijah?
10And he said, I have been very jealous for the LORD God of hosts: for the children of Israel have forsaken thy covenant, thrown down thine altars, and slain thy prophets with the sword; and I, even I only, am left; and they seek my life, to take it away.
11And he said, Go forth, and stand upon the mount before the LORD. And, behold, the LORD passed by, and a great and strong wind rent the mountains, and brake in pieces the rocks before the LORD; but the LORD was not in the wind: and after the wind an earthquake; but the LORD was not in the earthquake:
12And after the earthquake a fire; but the LORD was not in the fire: and after the fire a still small voice.
13And it was so, when Elijah heard it, that he wrapped his face in his mantle, and went out, and stood in the entering in of the cave. And, behold, there came a voice unto him, and said, What doest thou here, Elijah?
14And he said, I have been very jealous for the LORD God of hosts: because the children of Israel have forsaken thy covenant, thrown down thine altars, and slain thy prophets with the sword; and I, even I only, am left; and they seek my life, to take it away.
15And the LORD said unto him, Go, return on thy way to the wilderness of Damascus: and when thou comest, anoint Hazael to be king over Syria:
This shows that Elijah fell into a depression, wishing that he could just fit in. He states to God that he is the only one left that makes any sense. Even after seeing the power of God and figuring out the meaning behind the display, he simply returned to his statement to God.
The meaning is that God is not found in the expected places, but in what appears to be weak, unlikely, and not desired. Elijah wanted the support of others, which is natural, and distressed over the lack of human support, despite having the support of God. God then answers this by having him go on another mission, during which he would meet Elisha, who would be his companion and support him in trouble, eventually taking his place as prophet.
Why do I mention this? I think this might help in a couple different ways. First, the expected answer that you will get is dismissal, as even God was dismissed by a prophet in fear and depression. Second, being the Elisha in the story, being an aid to the person in question, would be a great benefit, even when the person is resisting all aid. Third, sometimes people will never change, even in the face of irrefutable proof that fear is not the response to have in the face of opposition. Elijah was proven that God controlled the universe and no person could realistically oppose him, but he still felt powerless and alone.
Ultimately, the way to reach out is to reinforce companionship and to go over the Bible with him.
Unfortunately, I have no experience of success in reaching others. I don't really have the charisma that is required to get people to listen and consider application. I can share what I know about the Bible though.
People that are consumed by fear are in a struggling relationship with God, if not devoid of the relationship altogether.
Herein is our love made perfect, that we may have boldness in the day of judgment: because as he is, so are we in this world.
1 John 4:18-21
There is no fear in love; but perfect love casteth out fear: because fear hath torment. He that feareth is not made perfect in love.
19We love him, because he first loved us.
20If a man say, I love God, and hateth his brother, he is a liar: for he that loveth not his brother whom he hath seen, how can he love God whom he hath not seen?
21And this commandment have we from him, That he who loveth God love his brother also.
The desire to fit in with the world in fear of losing something valuable is natural, as it strikes the hearts of the prophets as well. Elijah was gifted with miracles to present to the people that had abandoned God.
1 Kings 18:36-39
And it came to pass at the time of the offering of the evening sacrifice, that Elijah the prophet came near, and said, LORD God of Abraham, Isaac, and of Israel, let it be known this day that thou art God in Israel, and that I am thy servant, and that I have done all these things at thy word.
37Hear me, O LORD, hear me, that this people may know that thou art the LORD God, and that thou hast turned their heart back again.
38Then the fire of the LORD fell, and consumed the burnt sacrifice, and the wood, and the stones, and the dust, and licked up the water that was in the trench.
39And when all the people saw it, they fell on their faces: and they said, The LORD, he is the God; the LORD, he is the God.
Yet, after this display, the king of Israel was mad that he disproved his favorite false god of Baal, as his wife was pagan. The wife demanded the head of Elijah for crimes against the gods and so he ran.
1 Kings 19:9-15
And he came thither unto a cave, and lodged there; and, behold, the word of the LORD came to him, and he said unto him, What doest thou here, Elijah?
10And he said, I have been very jealous for the LORD God of hosts: for the children of Israel have forsaken thy covenant, thrown down thine altars, and slain thy prophets with the sword; and I, even I only, am left; and they seek my life, to take it away.
11And he said, Go forth, and stand upon the mount before the LORD. And, behold, the LORD passed by, and a great and strong wind rent the mountains, and brake in pieces the rocks before the LORD; but the LORD was not in the wind: and after the wind an earthquake; but the LORD was not in the earthquake:
12And after the earthquake a fire; but the LORD was not in the fire: and after the fire a still small voice.
13And it was so, when Elijah heard it, that he wrapped his face in his mantle, and went out, and stood in the entering in of the cave. And, behold, there came a voice unto him, and said, What doest thou here, Elijah?
14And he said, I have been very jealous for the LORD God of hosts: because the children of Israel have forsaken thy covenant, thrown down thine altars, and slain thy prophets with the sword; and I, even I only, am left; and they seek my life, to take it away.
15And the LORD said unto him, Go, return on thy way to the wilderness of Damascus: and when thou comest, anoint Hazael to be king over Syria:
This shows that Elijah fell into a depression, wishing that he could just fit in. He states to God that he is the only one left that makes any sense. Even after seeing the power of God and figuring out the meaning behind the display, he simply returned to his statement to God.
The meaning is that God is not found in the expected places, but in what appears to be weak, unlikely, and not desired. Elijah wanted the support of others, which is natural, and distressed over the lack of human support, despite having the support of God. God then answers this by having him go on another mission, during which he would meet Elisha, who would be his companion and support him in trouble, eventually taking his place as prophet.
Why do I mention this? I think this might help in a couple different ways. First, the expected answer that you will get is dismissal, as even God was dismissed by a prophet in fear and depression. Second, being the Elisha in the story, being an aid to the person in question, would be a great benefit, even when the person is resisting all aid. Third, sometimes people will never change, even in the face of irrefutable proof that fear is not the response to have in the face of opposition. Elijah was proven that God controlled the universe and no person could realistically oppose him, but he still felt powerless and alone.
Ultimately, the way to reach out is to reinforce companionship and to go over the Bible with him.
>>7310
Being part of a church already can be a dangerous thing in this era, as it can lead to one of two thoughts where the person can either believe himself already knowledgeable about the text and has already applied the lessons, or believes the Bible to be something akin to a community gathering point with a book reading. Especially in the churches that express modern values and interpretations that deviate from the obvious meaning being expressed. In either case, I would prepare for a resistance to the content of the Bible.
The matrix belief I assume is the belief that the world is a simulation? Or perhaps it is the belief that the world is an illusion and the reality lies behind what can be see? Though an element of this is the truth, as the world is not the totality of existence.
2 Corinthians 4:18
While we look not at the things which are seen, but at the things which are not seen: for the things which are seen are temporal; but the things which are not seen are eternal.
1 John 4:20
If a man say, I love God, and hateth his brother, he is a liar: for he that loveth not his brother whom he hath seen, how can he love God whom he hath not seen?
But the world is very much real, as God created man in it, bothers to fight for it, and will make another earth.
Revelation 20:4-6
And I saw thrones, and they sat upon them, and judgment was given unto them: and I saw the souls of them that were beheaded for the witness of Jesus, and for the word of God, and which had not worshipped the beast, neither his image, neither had received his mark upon their foreheads, or in their hands; and they lived and reigned with Christ a thousand years.
5But the rest of the dead lived not again until the thousand years were finished. This is the first resurrection.
6Blessed and holy is he that hath part in the first resurrection: on such the second death hath no power, but they shall be priests of God and of Christ, and shall reign with him a thousand years.
Revelation 21:1-5
And I saw a new heaven and a new earth: for the first heaven and the first earth were passed away; and there was no more sea.
2And I John saw the holy city, new Jerusalem, coming down from God out of heaven, prepared as a bride adorned for her husband.
3And I heard a great voice out of heaven saying, Behold, the tabernacle of God is with men, and he will dwell with them, and they shall be his people, and God himself shall be with them, and be their God.
4And God shall wipe away all tears from their eyes; and there shall be no more death, neither sorrow, nor crying, neither shall there be any more pain: for the former things are passed away.
5And he that sat upon the throne said, Behold, I make all things new. And he said unto me, Write: for these words are true and faithful.
>who am I to blurt it out to him
God can do this for you. The response to the Bible reveals the truth and someone that is saved will grow in the fruit of the Spirit, as he desires to grow closer to God. He won't be perfect, but he will respect the Bible.
Asking if he is ok lately and if he would like to hear the comforting words that you read in the Bible might be a good way to introduce the Bible into the equation, which will reveal where his heart is. Again, I have as of yet not had success with my methods, so perhaps they are not the greatest to restore friendship and bringing someone to Christ, but it is the best I can provide.
James 5:19-20
Brethren, if any of you do err from the truth, and one convert him;
20Let him know, that he which converteth the sinner from the error of his way shall save a soul from death, and shall hide a multitude of sins.
Being part of a church already can be a dangerous thing in this era, as it can lead to one of two thoughts where the person can either believe himself already knowledgeable about the text and has already applied the lessons, or believes the Bible to be something akin to a community gathering point with a book reading. Especially in the churches that express modern values and interpretations that deviate from the obvious meaning being expressed. In either case, I would prepare for a resistance to the content of the Bible.
The matrix belief I assume is the belief that the world is a simulation? Or perhaps it is the belief that the world is an illusion and the reality lies behind what can be see? Though an element of this is the truth, as the world is not the totality of existence.
2 Corinthians 4:18
While we look not at the things which are seen, but at the things which are not seen: for the things which are seen are temporal; but the things which are not seen are eternal.
1 John 4:20
If a man say, I love God, and hateth his brother, he is a liar: for he that loveth not his brother whom he hath seen, how can he love God whom he hath not seen?
But the world is very much real, as God created man in it, bothers to fight for it, and will make another earth.
Revelation 20:4-6
And I saw thrones, and they sat upon them, and judgment was given unto them: and I saw the souls of them that were beheaded for the witness of Jesus, and for the word of God, and which had not worshipped the beast, neither his image, neither had received his mark upon their foreheads, or in their hands; and they lived and reigned with Christ a thousand years.
5But the rest of the dead lived not again until the thousand years were finished. This is the first resurrection.
6Blessed and holy is he that hath part in the first resurrection: on such the second death hath no power, but they shall be priests of God and of Christ, and shall reign with him a thousand years.
Revelation 21:1-5
And I saw a new heaven and a new earth: for the first heaven and the first earth were passed away; and there was no more sea.
2And I John saw the holy city, new Jerusalem, coming down from God out of heaven, prepared as a bride adorned for her husband.
3And I heard a great voice out of heaven saying, Behold, the tabernacle of God is with men, and he will dwell with them, and they shall be his people, and God himself shall be with them, and be their God.
4And God shall wipe away all tears from their eyes; and there shall be no more death, neither sorrow, nor crying, neither shall there be any more pain: for the former things are passed away.
5And he that sat upon the throne said, Behold, I make all things new. And he said unto me, Write: for these words are true and faithful.
>who am I to blurt it out to him
God can do this for you. The response to the Bible reveals the truth and someone that is saved will grow in the fruit of the Spirit, as he desires to grow closer to God. He won't be perfect, but he will respect the Bible.
Asking if he is ok lately and if he would like to hear the comforting words that you read in the Bible might be a good way to introduce the Bible into the equation, which will reveal where his heart is. Again, I have as of yet not had success with my methods, so perhaps they are not the greatest to restore friendship and bringing someone to Christ, but it is the best I can provide.
James 5:19-20
Brethren, if any of you do err from the truth, and one convert him;
20Let him know, that he which converteth the sinner from the error of his way shall save a soul from death, and shall hide a multitude of sins.
>>7311
>>7312
Thank you, for some reason I hadn't yet come across Elijah and Elisha, and will definitely refer to those verses in the letter to my friend.
The NIV church that he and his family visit is one that seems to operate on my friend's terms rather than God's, and it'll likely be one of his "security blankets" that I should be careful to not pull away, but rather let him slowly remove himself and on his own terms when introducing the more Biblically-accurate alternatives.
>The matrix belief I assume is the belief that the world is a simulation? Or perhaps it is the belief that the world is an illusion and the reality lies behind what can be see?
Yes, pretty much but also and more malevolently it's a simulated reality/existence/trap created by parasitic entities, and this artificial reality has limits to it that never exceed those of which the person living inside the artificial reality can handle.
(Personally, I believe that satan and his synagogue-of-satan/etc. minions are trying everything to counterfeit and replace God, using technology, psychology, pharmacology, electromagnetic radiation, media, fake religions/scripture/cults/culture, illness, addictions, alterations to the environment etc. - creating a type of world inside a world, which only they control - though I don't yet fully know how well supported this belief is Biblically.
I do know that satan is currently allowed to be god of this world, but I suppose even that will have its limits of what satan is allowed to do; a set of limits which can be removed by absorbing people into another world, a world only controlled by satan and precursor to hell when the body finally dies. For example, our true-world still has actual Christians passing through it, with the power to make real-world changes, whereas other people will need to specifically turn completely away from God's protection before being able to fully take part inside this fake-world being constructed. We can see fake-worlds inside communist regimes, but advances in and adoption of technology will make this fake-world seem perfectly normal and thus inescapable.)
My friend apparently cannot handle the newfound unknown harshness and dangers of the world that exists outside of the old and known harshness and dangers within the world/matrix that he's inside of. That's why I regret being so "arrogant" in assuming he'd simply see the deeper and even more disturbing reality behind a subject - assuming he'd move away from the dangers that he knows he can handle, rather than bringing them even closer to him, like he has. However, I don't actually know if my letter to him had that effect - for some reason, it feels like he had already made up his mind years before. The Corinthians verse sounds very suitable for his situation, because judging by his letter to me he's strongly holding on to what he can see, while at the same time trying to escape from it.
Thank you for taking time to read through my lengthy outpourings of thoughts and answering them. I've been pretty emotional lately due to recent deaths and illnesses of loved ones, and am myself feeling pretty weak and ineffective right now.
Gently quoting the real Jesus Christ (not the feel-good honey-coated censored NIV/etc.-type counterfeits) and Him being the ultimate authority, rather than satan (or satan's works), would be a positive non-confrontational approach for someone as hurting as my friend.
My thoughts on charisma: satan has boundless charisma (when it suits him), but only God has/is the truth. "One word of truth outweighs the world." Aleksandr Solzhenitsyn
I just need to speak from the heart, without traces of my own worries or intimidation like in my last letter.
Thank you, again.
>>7312
Thank you, for some reason I hadn't yet come across Elijah and Elisha, and will definitely refer to those verses in the letter to my friend.
The NIV church that he and his family visit is one that seems to operate on my friend's terms rather than God's, and it'll likely be one of his "security blankets" that I should be careful to not pull away, but rather let him slowly remove himself and on his own terms when introducing the more Biblically-accurate alternatives.
>The matrix belief I assume is the belief that the world is a simulation? Or perhaps it is the belief that the world is an illusion and the reality lies behind what can be see?
Yes, pretty much but also and more malevolently it's a simulated reality/existence/trap created by parasitic entities, and this artificial reality has limits to it that never exceed those of which the person living inside the artificial reality can handle.
(Personally, I believe that satan and his synagogue-of-satan/etc. minions are trying everything to counterfeit and replace God, using technology, psychology, pharmacology, electromagnetic radiation, media, fake religions/scripture/cults/culture, illness, addictions, alterations to the environment etc. - creating a type of world inside a world, which only they control - though I don't yet fully know how well supported this belief is Biblically.
I do know that satan is currently allowed to be god of this world, but I suppose even that will have its limits of what satan is allowed to do; a set of limits which can be removed by absorbing people into another world, a world only controlled by satan and precursor to hell when the body finally dies. For example, our true-world still has actual Christians passing through it, with the power to make real-world changes, whereas other people will need to specifically turn completely away from God's protection before being able to fully take part inside this fake-world being constructed. We can see fake-worlds inside communist regimes, but advances in and adoption of technology will make this fake-world seem perfectly normal and thus inescapable.)
My friend apparently cannot handle the newfound unknown harshness and dangers of the world that exists outside of the old and known harshness and dangers within the world/matrix that he's inside of. That's why I regret being so "arrogant" in assuming he'd simply see the deeper and even more disturbing reality behind a subject - assuming he'd move away from the dangers that he knows he can handle, rather than bringing them even closer to him, like he has. However, I don't actually know if my letter to him had that effect - for some reason, it feels like he had already made up his mind years before. The Corinthians verse sounds very suitable for his situation, because judging by his letter to me he's strongly holding on to what he can see, while at the same time trying to escape from it.
Thank you for taking time to read through my lengthy outpourings of thoughts and answering them. I've been pretty emotional lately due to recent deaths and illnesses of loved ones, and am myself feeling pretty weak and ineffective right now.
Gently quoting the real Jesus Christ (not the feel-good honey-coated censored NIV/etc.-type counterfeits) and Him being the ultimate authority, rather than satan (or satan's works), would be a positive non-confrontational approach for someone as hurting as my friend.
My thoughts on charisma: satan has boundless charisma (when it suits him), but only God has/is the truth. "One word of truth outweighs the world." Aleksandr Solzhenitsyn
I just need to speak from the heart, without traces of my own worries or intimidation like in my last letter.
Thank you, again.
>>7314
Vital questions, and yes to all. I got the answer months ago, but have been too intimidated to go through with it and instead have spent most of my spare time and thoughts preparing, because I'm doubting my own abilities to handle such a serious situation properly after failing to save another dear friend of mine during a critical time - I was doing much better before that had happened.
That's why I was so open on here - in a way to gather the last bit of courage and get my shit together, but also add some final outside positive influence into the mix. Getting an answer and not going through with it is enough of a crime already, but now there are Earthly witnesses too. No more delays now.
Vital questions, and yes to all. I got the answer months ago, but have been too intimidated to go through with it and instead have spent most of my spare time and thoughts preparing, because I'm doubting my own abilities to handle such a serious situation properly after failing to save another dear friend of mine during a critical time - I was doing much better before that had happened.
That's why I was so open on here - in a way to gather the last bit of courage and get my shit together, but also add some final outside positive influence into the mix. Getting an answer and not going through with it is enough of a crime already, but now there are Earthly witnesses too. No more delays now.
what passages to study to help with online evangelism
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