IIT we discuss and study the Bible. I will be using the King James Version and will take the stance of a fundamental literalist, which is a bit redundant, but these days there exist many that claim to be fundamental but reject the literal interpretation of Scripture when they encounter something they don't agree or understand. I am not a Bible scholar, I'm not a pastor, I don't currently attend any denomination's church service. I'm just an anon that really like to study the Bible. Feel free to argue with me, I could be completely wrong and I hope to learn more about the Bible along the way.
I will post below my first study topic and what I have researched about it. Hopefully it will be interesting and somewhat engaging.
/ub/ - Überhengst
Becoming better
641 replies | 223 files | 141 UUIDs | Page 2
591 replies and 217 files omitted.
>>8321
I can plaster this thread with proof of christianity being a jewish sect and the "savior", a rabbi. But I don't want to shit on OP's bread.
I'll drop the following and see what OP has to say.
Cited from a SS booklet observes the strange alliance between Judaism and Christianity:
Schwarz, Dieter Angriff Auf Die Nationalsozialistische Weltanschauung (1936)
https://archive.org/details/schwarz-dieter-angriff-auf-die-nationalsozialistische-weltanschauung-1936-46-s.-scan-fraktur/page/26/mode/2up
- “Christianity has to bring together all people, whether they be Negroes or whites, into one great family of God. […] This sets the tone for the unification of two international forces: Judaism and political Catholicism. Zionist Jews agree with Pope that National Socialism was a scourge: In December 1934, the Viennese Franciscan Father Zyrill Fifher gave a lecture in the ring of the Old Men’s Associations of the Zionist Association in Vienna, in which he stated that National Socialism was not just a heresy, as the Pope said, but a whip and scourge used by the peoples themselves.” (Pg. 26).
I can plaster this thread with proof of christianity being a jewish sect and the "savior", a rabbi. But I don't want to shit on OP's bread.
I'll drop the following and see what OP has to say.
Cited from a SS booklet observes the strange alliance between Judaism and Christianity:
Schwarz, Dieter Angriff Auf Die Nationalsozialistische Weltanschauung (1936)
https://archive.org/details/schwarz-dieter-angriff-auf-die-nationalsozialistische-weltanschauung-1936-46-s.-scan-fraktur/page/26/mode/2up
- “Christianity has to bring together all people, whether they be Negroes or whites, into one great family of God. […] This sets the tone for the unification of two international forces: Judaism and political Catholicism. Zionist Jews agree with Pope that National Socialism was a scourge: In December 1934, the Viennese Franciscan Father Zyrill Fifher gave a lecture in the ring of the Old Men’s Associations of the Zionist Association in Vienna, in which he stated that National Socialism was not just a heresy, as the Pope said, but a whip and scourge used by the peoples themselves.” (Pg. 26).
>>8322
I feel like paganism is like atheism. It only really exist as a counterpoint to Christianity. Like, why don't you just do
>I can plaster this thread with proof of christianity being a jewish sect and the "savior", a rabbi. But I don't want to shit on OP's bread.
That in this (Let's be real, your own thread): >>8162 →
Paganism is more a culture of critique than thing of it's own.
I feel like paganism is like atheism. It only really exist as a counterpoint to Christianity. Like, why don't you just do
>I can plaster this thread with proof of christianity being a jewish sect and the "savior", a rabbi. But I don't want to shit on OP's bread.
That in this (Let's be real, your own thread): >>8162 →
Paganism is more a culture of critique than thing of it's own.
>>8324
>Point taken.
Thank you. ^^
We can obviously discuss differences and such but these debates always run out into pointless history debates were each debater has their own history book to recount events from. And either it's is Christianity Jewish? Or was Hitler pagan or Christian? Type questions that is the core of them.
It's never about now. Like, I for example want to preserve white people and you do too. Why should we be in conflict again? I like Christianity for it's philosophy and moral teachings.
>Point taken.
Thank you. ^^
We can obviously discuss differences and such but these debates always run out into pointless history debates were each debater has their own history book to recount events from. And either it's is Christianity Jewish? Or was Hitler pagan or Christian? Type questions that is the core of them.
It's never about now. Like, I for example want to preserve white people and you do too. Why should we be in conflict again? I like Christianity for it's philosophy and moral teachings.
>>8324
>Your other thread
Yes, nothing fucking came of it, in spite of all the prevalent "fuck abrahamism" which I would normally be in support of, except apparently paganism is only cool when "(you)" are available to shitpost about it? Not a good look tbh.
>Your other thread
Yes, nothing fucking came of it, in spite of all the prevalent "fuck abrahamism" which I would normally be in support of, except apparently paganism is only cool when "(you)" are available to shitpost about it? Not a good look tbh.
>>8325
Having said that I think you're perspective(s) >>8324
>>8326 has value and I wouldn't mind hearing more about it, and probably OP and others as well Maybe, like I don't know.^^. I think we need to step away from tribalism and be united as frens in our whiteness and face this incredibly hard questions of the mystery of existence itself by an open-mind and open-heart.
Though, perhaps not in this thread since it's kinda dedicated, and perhaps not in yours either, unless you want that I guess, since it's also dedicated but a new thread about comparing the pros and cons of the different religions in question along.
Just my two cents. I don't think you're breaking any rules, as far as I know of by bringing it up here either. Just if there's a big debate here, it kinda puts the focus on this debate rather than "ITT we discuss and study the bible."
Having said that I think you're perspective(s) >>8324
>>8326 has value and I wouldn't mind hearing more about it, and probably OP and others as well Maybe, like I don't know.^^. I think we need to step away from tribalism and be united as frens in our whiteness and face this incredibly hard questions of the mystery of existence itself by an open-mind and open-heart.
Though, perhaps not in this thread since it's kinda dedicated, and perhaps not in yours either, unless you want that I guess, since it's also dedicated but a new thread about comparing the pros and cons of the different religions in question along.
Just my two cents. I don't think you're breaking any rules, as far as I know of by bringing it up here either. Just if there's a big debate here, it kinda puts the focus on this debate rather than "ITT we discuss and study the bible."
>>8327
>I think we need to step away from tribalism
Not implying you're being tribalistic right now. This is just my general disposition for this subject matter.
>I think we need to step away from tribalism
Not implying you're being tribalistic right now. This is just my general disposition for this subject matter.
>>8327
>annex your thread for a better discussion
As said recently, where do you think we are? Thats exactly what we do
And yes, there's plenty to criticize paganism about. That's kind of the rub, there's no tradition that has clean hands, and it's murky to try and find one's way without direct guidance - which is an issue in it's own right - but yes, we absolutely should get to that
>annex your thread for a better discussion
As said recently, where do you think we are? Thats exactly what we do
And yes, there's plenty to criticize paganism about. That's kind of the rub, there's no tradition that has clean hands, and it's murky to try and find one's way without direct guidance - which is an issue in it's own right - but yes, we absolutely should get to that
>>8327
I think a theology and comparative religion thread would be nice. I attempted to spur discussion in the paganism thread, but to no avail.
New thread or no, what topics would you prefer to discuss?
I think a theology and comparative religion thread would be nice. I attempted to spur discussion in the paganism thread, but to no avail.
New thread or no, what topics would you prefer to discuss?
>>8330
>I attempted to spur discussion in the paganism thread, but to no avail.
No wonder why. Paganism is dead in the West.
>I attempted to spur discussion in the paganism thread, but to no avail.
No wonder why. Paganism is dead in the West.
For today's bible study, we are going to begin (and likely not end) the book of Proverbs.
The idea behind this selection is that by starting with Ecclesiastes, we're establishing the underlying theory behind the moral framework the Bible offers, before getting into the gospels and all the rest.
For context, this is coming from one who has read the bible a few decades ago to in a comparative religion sense. The point wasn't trying to grasp the Bible, as much as identify what consistencies there were between it and the founding texts of many other traditions.
In this case, the intent IS to grasp the Bible, and OP (who has VASTLY more knowledge of Christendom) will be monitoring.
The idea behind this selection is that by starting with Ecclesiastes, we're establishing the underlying theory behind the moral framework the Bible offers, before getting into the gospels and all the rest.
For context, this is coming from one who has read the bible a few decades ago to in a comparative religion sense. The point wasn't trying to grasp the Bible, as much as identify what consistencies there were between it and the founding texts of many other traditions.
In this case, the intent IS to grasp the Bible, and OP (who has VASTLY more knowledge of Christendom) will be monitoring.
>>8346
It is hard to do a study of the whole book all at once, but if you would like, we can start at chapter one and see where that goes.
It begins in chapter one as such:
The proverbs of Solomon the son of David, king of Israel;
2To know wisdom and instruction; to perceive the words of understanding;
3To receive the instruction of wisdom, justice, and judgment, and equity;
4To give subtilty to the simple, to the young man knowledge and discretion.
5A wise man will hear, and will increase learning; and a man of understanding shall attain unto wise counsels:
6To understand a proverb, and the interpretation; the words of the wise, and their dark sayings.
We get an overview of the content that will follow throughout the book. The author is Solomon, a king in Israel, son of the famous David, and the king before the civil war that would consume Israel up until a few hundred years before Jesus would arrive. As such, I think it is important to view the context of Solomon.
I Kings 3:2-15
Only the people sacrificed in high places, because there was no house built unto the name of the LORD, until those days.
3And Solomon loved the LORD, walking in the statutes of David his father: only he sacrificed and burnt incense in high places.
4And the king went to Gibeon to sacrifice there; for that was the great high place: a thousand burnt offerings did Solomon offer upon that altar.
5In Gibeon the LORD appeared to Solomon in a dream by night: and God said, Ask what I shall give thee.
6And Solomon said, Thou hast shewed unto thy servant David my father great mercy, according as he walked before thee in truth, and in righteousness, and in uprightness of heart with thee; and thou hast kept for him this great kindness, that thou hast given him a son to sit on his throne, as it is this day.
7And now, O LORD my God, thou hast made thy servant king instead of David my father: and I am but a little child: I know not how to go out or come in.
8And thy servant is in the midst of thy people which thou hast chosen, a great people, that cannot be numbered nor counted for multitude.
9Give therefore thy servant an understanding heart to judge thy people, that I may discern between good and bad: for who is able to judge this thy so great a people?
10And the speech pleased the Lord, that Solomon had asked this thing.
11And God said unto him, Because thou hast asked this thing, and hast not asked for thyself long life; neither hast asked riches for thyself, nor hast asked the life of thine enemies; but hast asked for thyself understanding to discern judgment;
12Behold, I have done according to thy words: lo, I have given thee a wise and an understanding heart; so that there was none like thee before thee, neither after thee shall any arise like unto thee.
13And I have also given thee that which thou hast not asked, both riches, and honour: so that there shall not be any among the kings like unto thee all thy days.
14And if thou wilt walk in my ways, to keep my statutes and my commandments, as thy father David did walk, then I will lengthen thy days.
15And Solomon awoke; and, behold, it was a dream. And he came to Jerusalem, and stood before the ark of the covenant of the LORD, and offered up burnt offerings, and offered peace offerings, and made a feast to all his servants.
So, we find that Solomon begins his life as king by sacrificing to God at these things called high places. God is not a fan of this because the equivelent today is worshiping God in a universalist temple alongside all nationalities and religions. There were often various rituals and orgies going on around the place as well as was typical for different gods in the area. It is not something God enjoys because the worship of God occurs through relationship, truth, and trust.
Isaiah 1:9-21
Except the LORD of hosts had left unto us a very small remnant, we should have been as Sodom, and we should have been like unto Gomorrah.
10Hear the word of the LORD, ye rulers of Sodom; give ear unto the law of our God, ye people of Gomorrah.
11To what purpose is the multitude of your sacrifices unto me? saith the LORD: I am full of the burnt offerings of rams, and the fat of fed beasts; and I delight not in the blood of bullocks, or of lambs, or of he goats.
12When ye come to appear before me, who hath required this at your hand, to tread my courts?
13Bring no more vain oblations; incense is an abomination unto me; the new moons and sabbaths, the calling of assemblies, I cannot away with; it is iniquity, even the solemn meeting.
14Your new moons and your appointed feasts my soul hateth: they are a trouble unto me; I am weary to bear them.
15And when ye spread forth your hands, I will hide mine eyes from you: yea, when ye make many prayers, I will not hear: your hands are full of blood.
16Wash you, make you clean; put away the evil of your doings from before mine eyes; cease to do evil;
17Learn to do well; seek judgment, relieve the oppressed, judge the fatherless, plead for the widow.
18Come now, and let us reason together, saith the LORD: though your sins be as scarlet, they shall be as white as snow; though they be red like crimson, they shall be as wool.
19If ye be willing and obedient, ye shall eat the good of the land:
20But if ye refuse and rebel, ye shall be devoured with the sword: for the mouth of the LORD hath spoken it.
21How is the faithful city become an harlot! it was full of judgment; righteousness lodged in it; but now murderers.
It is hard to do a study of the whole book all at once, but if you would like, we can start at chapter one and see where that goes.
It begins in chapter one as such:
The proverbs of Solomon the son of David, king of Israel;
2To know wisdom and instruction; to perceive the words of understanding;
3To receive the instruction of wisdom, justice, and judgment, and equity;
4To give subtilty to the simple, to the young man knowledge and discretion.
5A wise man will hear, and will increase learning; and a man of understanding shall attain unto wise counsels:
6To understand a proverb, and the interpretation; the words of the wise, and their dark sayings.
We get an overview of the content that will follow throughout the book. The author is Solomon, a king in Israel, son of the famous David, and the king before the civil war that would consume Israel up until a few hundred years before Jesus would arrive. As such, I think it is important to view the context of Solomon.
I Kings 3:2-15
Only the people sacrificed in high places, because there was no house built unto the name of the LORD, until those days.
3And Solomon loved the LORD, walking in the statutes of David his father: only he sacrificed and burnt incense in high places.
4And the king went to Gibeon to sacrifice there; for that was the great high place: a thousand burnt offerings did Solomon offer upon that altar.
5In Gibeon the LORD appeared to Solomon in a dream by night: and God said, Ask what I shall give thee.
6And Solomon said, Thou hast shewed unto thy servant David my father great mercy, according as he walked before thee in truth, and in righteousness, and in uprightness of heart with thee; and thou hast kept for him this great kindness, that thou hast given him a son to sit on his throne, as it is this day.
7And now, O LORD my God, thou hast made thy servant king instead of David my father: and I am but a little child: I know not how to go out or come in.
8And thy servant is in the midst of thy people which thou hast chosen, a great people, that cannot be numbered nor counted for multitude.
9Give therefore thy servant an understanding heart to judge thy people, that I may discern between good and bad: for who is able to judge this thy so great a people?
10And the speech pleased the Lord, that Solomon had asked this thing.
11And God said unto him, Because thou hast asked this thing, and hast not asked for thyself long life; neither hast asked riches for thyself, nor hast asked the life of thine enemies; but hast asked for thyself understanding to discern judgment;
12Behold, I have done according to thy words: lo, I have given thee a wise and an understanding heart; so that there was none like thee before thee, neither after thee shall any arise like unto thee.
13And I have also given thee that which thou hast not asked, both riches, and honour: so that there shall not be any among the kings like unto thee all thy days.
14And if thou wilt walk in my ways, to keep my statutes and my commandments, as thy father David did walk, then I will lengthen thy days.
15And Solomon awoke; and, behold, it was a dream. And he came to Jerusalem, and stood before the ark of the covenant of the LORD, and offered up burnt offerings, and offered peace offerings, and made a feast to all his servants.
So, we find that Solomon begins his life as king by sacrificing to God at these things called high places. God is not a fan of this because the equivelent today is worshiping God in a universalist temple alongside all nationalities and religions. There were often various rituals and orgies going on around the place as well as was typical for different gods in the area. It is not something God enjoys because the worship of God occurs through relationship, truth, and trust.
Isaiah 1:9-21
Except the LORD of hosts had left unto us a very small remnant, we should have been as Sodom, and we should have been like unto Gomorrah.
10Hear the word of the LORD, ye rulers of Sodom; give ear unto the law of our God, ye people of Gomorrah.
11To what purpose is the multitude of your sacrifices unto me? saith the LORD: I am full of the burnt offerings of rams, and the fat of fed beasts; and I delight not in the blood of bullocks, or of lambs, or of he goats.
12When ye come to appear before me, who hath required this at your hand, to tread my courts?
13Bring no more vain oblations; incense is an abomination unto me; the new moons and sabbaths, the calling of assemblies, I cannot away with; it is iniquity, even the solemn meeting.
14Your new moons and your appointed feasts my soul hateth: they are a trouble unto me; I am weary to bear them.
15And when ye spread forth your hands, I will hide mine eyes from you: yea, when ye make many prayers, I will not hear: your hands are full of blood.
16Wash you, make you clean; put away the evil of your doings from before mine eyes; cease to do evil;
17Learn to do well; seek judgment, relieve the oppressed, judge the fatherless, plead for the widow.
18Come now, and let us reason together, saith the LORD: though your sins be as scarlet, they shall be as white as snow; though they be red like crimson, they shall be as wool.
19If ye be willing and obedient, ye shall eat the good of the land:
20But if ye refuse and rebel, ye shall be devoured with the sword: for the mouth of the LORD hath spoken it.
21How is the faithful city become an harlot! it was full of judgment; righteousness lodged in it; but now murderers.
>>8348
From this, we see that God will not accept any token of worship in the presence of evil. You cannot bribe God into liking you, buy passes for wrongdoing, trade your way into blessing, or even claim racial or spiritual priority or immunity. God will only accept those that repent of evil and obey Him. This is reinforced in David’s writing as well.
Psalms 51:14-19
Deliver me from bloodguiltiness, O God, thou God of my salvation: and my tongue shall sing aloud of thy righteousness.
15O Lord, open thou my lips; and my mouth shall shew forth thy praise.
16For thou desirest not sacrifice; else would I give it: thou delightest not in burnt offering.
17The sacrifices of God are a broken spirit: a broken and a contrite heart, O God, thou wilt not despise.
18Do good in thy good pleasure unto Zion: build thou the walls of Jerusalem.
19Then shalt thou be pleased with the sacrifices of righteousness, with burnt offering and whole burnt offering: then shall they offer bullocks upon thine altar.
God has no desire to witness the shedding of blood or the burning of offerings alone. The broken spirit is one that recognizes that man can’t please God through our material possession. Why did God request these things to begin with if He doesn’t like it? It is because it represents the state of the heart and what was to come. The animal is innocent of your wrong, purposely demanded to be without any blemish or fault. It takes your place in punishment. This is what clicks when you do this. It does not appease God; it brings you to a point where you understand something. In addition, the act costs you financially. You gave away the best of what you had to God, representing that you care about God more than what you can gain in the world.
This is reflected in how Jesus would be the ultimate sacrifice, where God does the same thing in the sacrificial image. Jesus gives the best of what can be given, Himself, God’s only begotten Son, for the purpose of showing His love towards you. He is innocent of the rebellion that is sin yet takes full responsibility and punishment for it. In this act, God ends sacrifice as well, as the mystery is revealed, the truth that you worship God in is that He is the blood that removes sin.
John 4:21-26
Jesus saith unto her, Woman, believe me, the hour cometh, when ye shall neither in this mountain, nor yet at Jerusalem, worship the Father.
22Ye worship ye know not what: we know what we worship: for salvation is of the Jews.
23But the hour cometh, and now is, when the true worshippers shall worship the Father in spirit and in truth: for the Father seeketh such to worship him.
24God is a Spirit: and they that worship him must worship him in spirit and in truth.
25The woman saith unto him, I know that Messias cometh, which is called Christ: when he is come, he will tell us all things.
26Jesus saith unto her, I that speak unto thee am he.
Jesus states that God will not be worshiped in a specific temple or mountain or city or facing a direction. These were done for the purpose of teaching, fulfilling promises and prophecies, and to remove the people from traditions that counteract the worship of God. All of this reflects on why God does not like the high places that Solomon was at. Now we see the importance of Solomon’s Temple, showing that Solomon desired to remove himself from universalism and make a place where he can worship God apart from what distracts from and rejects God. This reflects the wisdom that Solomon was given.
However, things were far from perfect with Solomon. He abused his power and riches to work against his wisdom and live a life of excess and lust. He did not value what was given, which also connects to how Solomon’s Temple was not the perfect form of worship, destined to be destroyed, replaced with a downgrade, have Jesus say that the worship at it is not necessary, and destroyed a second time.
All of that to set up who we are dealing with here: someone who wants us to do better than he did, using the tools he had with the wisdom he was both gifted and acquired throughout his life. He wants to see that we understand the proverbs, interpret them correctly, increase in learning, and gain wise counsel.
You may also notice that certain language exists in this passage that might raise a few eyebrows.
Proverbs 1:3
To receive the instruction of wisdom, justice, and judgment, and equity;
Some of this is recognized as subversive language today. By focusing on justice and equity, along with a helping of redefining terms, the religion of today builds a foundation of destructive behavior. The modern acolyte of this system will demand justice as righting wrongs, real and imagined, and equity as making equal outcomes or otherwise treat others as equal. The Bible specifically lists out the four of them because they work together to arrive at the correct conclusion.
Wisdom is the experience and understanding of truth. This balances equity in that you should treat others fairly. The Bible never equates the fair treatment of others, often depicted as not charging usury and not cheating balances and payments, to modern racial equality. Though the Bible encourages kindness to other races and allows for shared gathering, worship, outreach, and cooperation, it has active discouragements towards racial unity and globalism. But that is a topic for another lesson.
From this, we see that God will not accept any token of worship in the presence of evil. You cannot bribe God into liking you, buy passes for wrongdoing, trade your way into blessing, or even claim racial or spiritual priority or immunity. God will only accept those that repent of evil and obey Him. This is reinforced in David’s writing as well.
Psalms 51:14-19
Deliver me from bloodguiltiness, O God, thou God of my salvation: and my tongue shall sing aloud of thy righteousness.
15O Lord, open thou my lips; and my mouth shall shew forth thy praise.
16For thou desirest not sacrifice; else would I give it: thou delightest not in burnt offering.
17The sacrifices of God are a broken spirit: a broken and a contrite heart, O God, thou wilt not despise.
18Do good in thy good pleasure unto Zion: build thou the walls of Jerusalem.
19Then shalt thou be pleased with the sacrifices of righteousness, with burnt offering and whole burnt offering: then shall they offer bullocks upon thine altar.
God has no desire to witness the shedding of blood or the burning of offerings alone. The broken spirit is one that recognizes that man can’t please God through our material possession. Why did God request these things to begin with if He doesn’t like it? It is because it represents the state of the heart and what was to come. The animal is innocent of your wrong, purposely demanded to be without any blemish or fault. It takes your place in punishment. This is what clicks when you do this. It does not appease God; it brings you to a point where you understand something. In addition, the act costs you financially. You gave away the best of what you had to God, representing that you care about God more than what you can gain in the world.
This is reflected in how Jesus would be the ultimate sacrifice, where God does the same thing in the sacrificial image. Jesus gives the best of what can be given, Himself, God’s only begotten Son, for the purpose of showing His love towards you. He is innocent of the rebellion that is sin yet takes full responsibility and punishment for it. In this act, God ends sacrifice as well, as the mystery is revealed, the truth that you worship God in is that He is the blood that removes sin.
John 4:21-26
Jesus saith unto her, Woman, believe me, the hour cometh, when ye shall neither in this mountain, nor yet at Jerusalem, worship the Father.
22Ye worship ye know not what: we know what we worship: for salvation is of the Jews.
23But the hour cometh, and now is, when the true worshippers shall worship the Father in spirit and in truth: for the Father seeketh such to worship him.
24God is a Spirit: and they that worship him must worship him in spirit and in truth.
25The woman saith unto him, I know that Messias cometh, which is called Christ: when he is come, he will tell us all things.
26Jesus saith unto her, I that speak unto thee am he.
Jesus states that God will not be worshiped in a specific temple or mountain or city or facing a direction. These were done for the purpose of teaching, fulfilling promises and prophecies, and to remove the people from traditions that counteract the worship of God. All of this reflects on why God does not like the high places that Solomon was at. Now we see the importance of Solomon’s Temple, showing that Solomon desired to remove himself from universalism and make a place where he can worship God apart from what distracts from and rejects God. This reflects the wisdom that Solomon was given.
However, things were far from perfect with Solomon. He abused his power and riches to work against his wisdom and live a life of excess and lust. He did not value what was given, which also connects to how Solomon’s Temple was not the perfect form of worship, destined to be destroyed, replaced with a downgrade, have Jesus say that the worship at it is not necessary, and destroyed a second time.
All of that to set up who we are dealing with here: someone who wants us to do better than he did, using the tools he had with the wisdom he was both gifted and acquired throughout his life. He wants to see that we understand the proverbs, interpret them correctly, increase in learning, and gain wise counsel.
You may also notice that certain language exists in this passage that might raise a few eyebrows.
Proverbs 1:3
To receive the instruction of wisdom, justice, and judgment, and equity;
Some of this is recognized as subversive language today. By focusing on justice and equity, along with a helping of redefining terms, the religion of today builds a foundation of destructive behavior. The modern acolyte of this system will demand justice as righting wrongs, real and imagined, and equity as making equal outcomes or otherwise treat others as equal. The Bible specifically lists out the four of them because they work together to arrive at the correct conclusion.
Wisdom is the experience and understanding of truth. This balances equity in that you should treat others fairly. The Bible never equates the fair treatment of others, often depicted as not charging usury and not cheating balances and payments, to modern racial equality. Though the Bible encourages kindness to other races and allows for shared gathering, worship, outreach, and cooperation, it has active discouragements towards racial unity and globalism. But that is a topic for another lesson.
>>8349
Judgement and justice are easily paired as well, as this is often the bane of any modern religion. Judgement is seen as an inherent evil, often quick to bring up a verse from the Bible.
Matthew 7:1
Judge not, that ye be not judged.
And if the passage stopped there, they might have pointed out a contradiction. However, the verse reads as such:
Matthew 7:1
Judge not, that ye be not judged.
2For with what judgment ye judge, ye shall be judged: and with what measure ye mete, it shall be measured to you again.
3And why beholdest thou the mote that is in thy brother's eye, but considerest not the beam that is in thine own eye?
4Or how wilt thou say to thy brother, Let me pull out the mote out of thine eye; and, behold, a beam is in thine own eye?
5Thou hypocrite, first cast out the beam out of thine own eye; and then shalt thou see clearly to cast out the mote out of thy brother's eye.
This passage does not deny all judgement. It is saying that you will be measured by the same rules that you apply in your own judgement. Basically, don’t throw rocks in glass houses. However, that is exactly what Solomon wants the reader to be able to rightly do by studying wisdom. The world would fall apart if it could never judge and Jesus did not say to never judge, only that it people were far too eager and did not consider their own guilt in accusations. If you rightly apply what you learn, you will not have to fear judgement that will be reflected back at you. The hope is that you will removed the beam from your own eye and be able to provide judgement and justice.
This brings us to our first piece of wisdom. It took quite a bit to even get this far, but the context is necessary to appreciate what is being talked about.
Proverbs 1:7
The fear of the LORD is the beginning of knowledge: but fools despise wisdom and instruction.
Pretty simple, but effective at explaining what the response to this book will be. To even begin with this knowledge, you need to fear the Lord. If you don’t, you will despise the wisdom and instruction given in throughout. The fear of the Lord is a phrase often repeated throughout the Bible. The fear is both reverence and standard fear, the kind you might feel when your parents tell you to do something and you rebel. That fear isn’t only the dread of punishment that will result, but it stems from a love that you have for the person. You value them being pleased and them being the opposite makes you fearful, seeking a way to restore the relationship. If you don’t have this fear, this love, this reverence, you will despise what will come later in the book.
Proverbs 1:8-9
My son, hear the instruction of thy father, and forsake not the law of thy mother:
9For they shall be an ornament of grace unto thy head, and chains about thy neck.
This message is also repeated throughout the Bible. As the relationship that God has with us and the relationship of the Father and the Son is understood through family, quite literally taking those names of Father and Son to describe themselves, it is important to have an understanding of the correct family relationship. We live an in era where it is getting more common to have a broken family or a family that does not love each other than one that is correctly functioning, which can make this message harder than it should be. Obedience towards the family, like obedience to the government does not trump obedience to God, as directly stated.
Acts 5:24-33
Now when the high priest and the captain of the temple and the chief priests heard these things, they doubted of them whereunto this would grow.
25Then came one and told them, saying, Behold, the men whom ye put in prison are standing in the temple, and teaching the people.
26Then went the captain with the officers, and brought them without violence: for they feared the people, lest they should have been stoned.
27And when they had brought them, they set them before the council: and the high priest asked them,
28Saying, Did not we straitly command you that ye should not teach in this name? and, behold, ye have filled Jerusalem with your doctrine, and intend to bring this man's blood upon us.
29Then Peter and the other apostles answered and said, We ought to obey God rather than men.
30The God of our fathers raised up Jesus, whom ye slew and hanged on a tree.
31Him hath God exalted with his right hand to be a Prince and a Saviour, for to give repentance to Israel, and forgiveness of sins.
32And we are his witnesses of these things; and so is also the Holy Ghost, whom God hath given to them that obey him.
33When they heard that, they were cut to the heart, and took counsel to slay them.
Judgement and justice are easily paired as well, as this is often the bane of any modern religion. Judgement is seen as an inherent evil, often quick to bring up a verse from the Bible.
Matthew 7:1
Judge not, that ye be not judged.
And if the passage stopped there, they might have pointed out a contradiction. However, the verse reads as such:
Matthew 7:1
Judge not, that ye be not judged.
2For with what judgment ye judge, ye shall be judged: and with what measure ye mete, it shall be measured to you again.
3And why beholdest thou the mote that is in thy brother's eye, but considerest not the beam that is in thine own eye?
4Or how wilt thou say to thy brother, Let me pull out the mote out of thine eye; and, behold, a beam is in thine own eye?
5Thou hypocrite, first cast out the beam out of thine own eye; and then shalt thou see clearly to cast out the mote out of thy brother's eye.
This passage does not deny all judgement. It is saying that you will be measured by the same rules that you apply in your own judgement. Basically, don’t throw rocks in glass houses. However, that is exactly what Solomon wants the reader to be able to rightly do by studying wisdom. The world would fall apart if it could never judge and Jesus did not say to never judge, only that it people were far too eager and did not consider their own guilt in accusations. If you rightly apply what you learn, you will not have to fear judgement that will be reflected back at you. The hope is that you will removed the beam from your own eye and be able to provide judgement and justice.
This brings us to our first piece of wisdom. It took quite a bit to even get this far, but the context is necessary to appreciate what is being talked about.
Proverbs 1:7
The fear of the LORD is the beginning of knowledge: but fools despise wisdom and instruction.
Pretty simple, but effective at explaining what the response to this book will be. To even begin with this knowledge, you need to fear the Lord. If you don’t, you will despise the wisdom and instruction given in throughout. The fear of the Lord is a phrase often repeated throughout the Bible. The fear is both reverence and standard fear, the kind you might feel when your parents tell you to do something and you rebel. That fear isn’t only the dread of punishment that will result, but it stems from a love that you have for the person. You value them being pleased and them being the opposite makes you fearful, seeking a way to restore the relationship. If you don’t have this fear, this love, this reverence, you will despise what will come later in the book.
Proverbs 1:8-9
My son, hear the instruction of thy father, and forsake not the law of thy mother:
9For they shall be an ornament of grace unto thy head, and chains about thy neck.
This message is also repeated throughout the Bible. As the relationship that God has with us and the relationship of the Father and the Son is understood through family, quite literally taking those names of Father and Son to describe themselves, it is important to have an understanding of the correct family relationship. We live an in era where it is getting more common to have a broken family or a family that does not love each other than one that is correctly functioning, which can make this message harder than it should be. Obedience towards the family, like obedience to the government does not trump obedience to God, as directly stated.
Acts 5:24-33
Now when the high priest and the captain of the temple and the chief priests heard these things, they doubted of them whereunto this would grow.
25Then came one and told them, saying, Behold, the men whom ye put in prison are standing in the temple, and teaching the people.
26Then went the captain with the officers, and brought them without violence: for they feared the people, lest they should have been stoned.
27And when they had brought them, they set them before the council: and the high priest asked them,
28Saying, Did not we straitly command you that ye should not teach in this name? and, behold, ye have filled Jerusalem with your doctrine, and intend to bring this man's blood upon us.
29Then Peter and the other apostles answered and said, We ought to obey God rather than men.
30The God of our fathers raised up Jesus, whom ye slew and hanged on a tree.
31Him hath God exalted with his right hand to be a Prince and a Saviour, for to give repentance to Israel, and forgiveness of sins.
32And we are his witnesses of these things; and so is also the Holy Ghost, whom God hath given to them that obey him.
33When they heard that, they were cut to the heart, and took counsel to slay them.
>>8350
So, the context is the instruction of a parent that is aligned with what God allows, obedience is required. God values the relationship that you have with your family as it will help you understand the relationship that God is seeking with you. The broken family is something that God hates, in cheating, abuse, and otherwise preventing a child from having this relationship be sound and point towards God. God directly commands parents love each other and their children, commands guiding them correctly, not driving them to anger, and being an example for them not just in life but in worship as well.
Colossians 3:17-21
And whatsoever ye do in word or deed, do all in the name of the Lord Jesus, giving thanks to God and the Father by him.
18Wives, submit yourselves unto your own husbands, as it is fit in the Lord.
19Husbands, love your wives, and be not bitter against them.
20Children, obey your parents in all things: for this is well pleasing unto the Lord.
21Fathers, provoke not your children to anger, lest they be discouraged.
22Servants, obey in all things your masters according to the flesh; not with eyeservice, as menpleasers; but in singleness of heart, fearing God:
23And whatsoever ye do, do it heartily, as to the Lord, and not unto men;
24Knowing that of the Lord ye shall receive the reward of the inheritance: for ye serve the Lord Christ.
25But he that doeth wrong shall receive for the wrong which he hath done: and there is no respect of persons.
There is much more just in this chapter alone, but it is late for me. I will stop back by later and pick back up from there and answer questions the best I can.
So, the context is the instruction of a parent that is aligned with what God allows, obedience is required. God values the relationship that you have with your family as it will help you understand the relationship that God is seeking with you. The broken family is something that God hates, in cheating, abuse, and otherwise preventing a child from having this relationship be sound and point towards God. God directly commands parents love each other and their children, commands guiding them correctly, not driving them to anger, and being an example for them not just in life but in worship as well.
Colossians 3:17-21
And whatsoever ye do in word or deed, do all in the name of the Lord Jesus, giving thanks to God and the Father by him.
18Wives, submit yourselves unto your own husbands, as it is fit in the Lord.
19Husbands, love your wives, and be not bitter against them.
20Children, obey your parents in all things: for this is well pleasing unto the Lord.
21Fathers, provoke not your children to anger, lest they be discouraged.
22Servants, obey in all things your masters according to the flesh; not with eyeservice, as menpleasers; but in singleness of heart, fearing God:
23And whatsoever ye do, do it heartily, as to the Lord, and not unto men;
24Knowing that of the Lord ye shall receive the reward of the inheritance: for ye serve the Lord Christ.
25But he that doeth wrong shall receive for the wrong which he hath done: and there is no respect of persons.
There is much more just in this chapter alone, but it is late for me. I will stop back by later and pick back up from there and answer questions the best I can.
>>8348
>>8349
>>8350
>>8351
Lovely. And very sanctimonious, the kind of sanctimoniousness that leads some people to be like "Nah, not for me."
For the edging neophyte, allow me a different perspective (and who the fuck cares who wrote it for now, lets judge the merit of his words and go from there):
"To know wisdom and instruction; to perceive the words of understanding;
To receive the instruction of wisdom, justice, and judgment, and equity;
To give subtilty to the simple, to the young man knowledge and discretion.
A wise man will hear, and will increase learning; and a man of understanding shall attain unto wise counsels:
To understand a proverb, and the interpretation; the words of the wise, and their dark sayings."
Plausible enough, its the same sorts of words echoed by any legitimate discipline; Perhaps because they come from the same source, but doubtful given the time lapse. In any case,... oh for fucks sake, can we stick to Proverbs? Skipping a bit,...
>This brings us to our first piece of wisdom. It took quite a bit to even get this far, but the context is necessary to appreciate what is being talked about.
Unnecessarily so, some might argue, if one wishes to win the audience. Is this Bible 101 or 401?
"The fear of the LORD is the beginning of knowledge: but fools despise wisdom and instruction.
My son, hear the instruction of thy father, and forsake not the law of thy mother:
For they shall be an ornament of grace unto thy head, and chains about thy neck."
I agree with the assessment with the first part. The second part is what is subject to debate. Is one to take it in a literal sense? Because no, and we can go into that if you want.
The concept of "cranial adornments" and "chains (onerous) around my neck" are not welcome ones. These are the clear language of bondage. Appreciating that perception and experience depends on individual context, David (in this bit) does NOT validate his point on a holistic scale. Yes, he goes on to attempt to in following chapters; attempt to being the operative phrase, and he will describe another type of bondage.
Which brings us(me) to the "Fear of the Lord" part. When describing what I conceptualize as the Lord, there IS no fear. There is only knowledge of what is, and a respect of what could become of me if I foolishly subject myself to it. And the general guidelines (with a few exceptions, addendums, and clarifications) are the same (or they seem so so far). So, while not intending to discourage the "now turn to chapter this" and then "and now chapter that", I will stick to one book.
>>8349
>>8350
>>8351
Lovely. And very sanctimonious, the kind of sanctimoniousness that leads some people to be like "Nah, not for me."
For the edging neophyte, allow me a different perspective (and who the fuck cares who wrote it for now, lets judge the merit of his words and go from there):
"To know wisdom and instruction; to perceive the words of understanding;
To receive the instruction of wisdom, justice, and judgment, and equity;
To give subtilty to the simple, to the young man knowledge and discretion.
A wise man will hear, and will increase learning; and a man of understanding shall attain unto wise counsels:
To understand a proverb, and the interpretation; the words of the wise, and their dark sayings."
Plausible enough, its the same sorts of words echoed by any legitimate discipline; Perhaps because they come from the same source, but doubtful given the time lapse. In any case,... oh for fucks sake, can we stick to Proverbs? Skipping a bit,...
>This brings us to our first piece of wisdom. It took quite a bit to even get this far, but the context is necessary to appreciate what is being talked about.
Unnecessarily so, some might argue, if one wishes to win the audience. Is this Bible 101 or 401?
"The fear of the LORD is the beginning of knowledge: but fools despise wisdom and instruction.
My son, hear the instruction of thy father, and forsake not the law of thy mother:
For they shall be an ornament of grace unto thy head, and chains about thy neck."
I agree with the assessment with the first part. The second part is what is subject to debate. Is one to take it in a literal sense? Because no, and we can go into that if you want.
The concept of "cranial adornments" and "chains (onerous) around my neck" are not welcome ones. These are the clear language of bondage. Appreciating that perception and experience depends on individual context, David (in this bit) does NOT validate his point on a holistic scale. Yes, he goes on to attempt to in following chapters; attempt to being the operative phrase, and he will describe another type of bondage.
Which brings us(me) to the "Fear of the Lord" part. When describing what I conceptualize as the Lord, there IS no fear. There is only knowledge of what is, and a respect of what could become of me if I foolishly subject myself to it. And the general guidelines (with a few exceptions, addendums, and clarifications) are the same (or they seem so so far). So, while not intending to discourage the "now turn to chapter this" and then "and now chapter that", I will stick to one book.
Apologies OP, fell asleep. Will gather thoughts and post analysis in a bit
>>8352
>oh for fucks sake, can we stick to Proverbs? Skipping a bit,...
As I said, the context is important. Say you had zero context for who Solomon is. It is important to realize he isn't some random king or just a son of a famous king. His experience is unique to present the content of this book because of his wisdom and what is to follow. His entire kingdom implodes into civil war because the contents of what he writes is not headed, because his sons and his people do not have the fear of the Lord.
>Unnecessarily so, some might argue, if one wishes to win the audience. Is this Bible 101 or 401?
I am not seeking to win an audience. This is the Bible study thread, not the Bible conversion thread. To study the Bible, you have to look into other passages and other books of the Bible to gain context for what is said.
II Timothy 3:14-17
But continue thou in the things which thou hast learned and hast been assured of, knowing of whom thou hast learned them;
15And that from a child thou hast known the holy scriptures, which are able to make thee wise unto salvation through faith which is in Christ Jesus.
16All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness:
17That the man of God may be perfect, throughly furnished unto all good works.
The reason for this is to develop a coherent and standardized translation and interpretation. The Bible does not allow personal interpretations that deviate from the objective truth that is presented.
II Peter 1:19-21
We have also a more sure word of prophecy; whereunto ye do well that ye take heed, as unto a light that shineth in a dark place, until the day dawn, and the day star arise in your hearts:
20Knowing this first, that no prophecy of the scripture is of any private interpretation.
21For the prophecy came not in old time by the will of man: but holy men of God spake as they were moved by the Holy Ghost.
>Is one to take it in a literal sense? Because no, and we can go into that if you want.
I'm not sure why you think this is literal except by misunderstanding what a literal interpretation of the Scripture means. Not every single sentence will be literal because it will indicate when it is making use of imagery. For instance, this passage says to hear instruction and don't forsake law. These will be an ornament and chains. This is a picture of what these things will be like to you. Understanding this is figurative language does not mean that the literal sense is lost, because to understand this passage, you do have to take the instruction and law literally and understand they will be like ornaments and chains. A figurative interpretation is not always to be avoided when interpreting literally.
Now, it is important to understand what ornaments and chains are, because as you mention:
>The concept of "cranial adornments" and "chains (onerous) around my neck" are not welcome ones.
I don't see why the ornament on your head is not welcome as it is saying that when you follow righteous instruction from your father and the righteous law of your mother, you will end up standing out among those that are wild, reckless, and rebellious. It will be as if you have a fancy ornament on your head, a symbol of status and recognition of value.
The chains are something I can understand more of a problem with. This one has two interpretative angles, both of which have some value. First, chains around the neck when paired with head ornaments would picture necklaces, more status symbols and showing value. However, I do see more of a pointing towards chains as something that will lock you in place. This is not always a bad thing as something that is wild, rebellious, and otherwise needs to be kept stationary within bounds needs a chain.
We see chains as an objective evil because of the connection with the concept that all slavery is evil. Thus, when the Bible has language that stated things in terms of slavery and being kept from going too far, our minds naturally categorize these concepts with evil.
>These are the clear language of bondage.
One is. I don't get what you are seeing with the head ornaments one. They did live next to Egypt and Babylon. Fancy head pieces were all the rage back in the day.
>Appreciating that perception and experience depends on individual context, David (in this bit) does NOT validate his point on a holistic scale.
First off, it is Solomon writing here. This is why I went over context of who was writing.
Second, this is why context from the rest of the Bible adding to what is written is important. This one verse does not provide the evidence you desire, but it is true on its own. This is why Solomon states that if you don't have a fear of the Lord, you will reject what is stated. If you don't have a relationship with God, which means you have a foundation in understanding who He is and what He wants which is found in context of the whole Bible, you will not see what is stated as true.
>Yes, he goes on to attempt to in following chapters; attempt to being the operative phrase, and he will describe another type of bondage.
Bondage is a good thing when it is done both correctly by the bonder and for the right purpose towards the bonded. For instance, bolting something to the ground is objectively a good thing when the item is bonded correctly to the ground, the purpose of the bonding is right such as making sure a table does not fall over when expected pressure is applied, and that the bonder does it rightly, in that there is no evil intent in the bonding of something to the ground.
This is brought up throughout the Bible. I even referenced one instance already.
Colossians 3:22
Servants, obey in all things your masters according to the flesh; not with eyeservice, as menpleasers; but in singleness of heart, fearing God:
God wants servants, slaves to a master, to obey all thing not just to appear obedience, not just to please someone, but do so because you fear God.
>oh for fucks sake, can we stick to Proverbs? Skipping a bit,...
As I said, the context is important. Say you had zero context for who Solomon is. It is important to realize he isn't some random king or just a son of a famous king. His experience is unique to present the content of this book because of his wisdom and what is to follow. His entire kingdom implodes into civil war because the contents of what he writes is not headed, because his sons and his people do not have the fear of the Lord.
>Unnecessarily so, some might argue, if one wishes to win the audience. Is this Bible 101 or 401?
I am not seeking to win an audience. This is the Bible study thread, not the Bible conversion thread. To study the Bible, you have to look into other passages and other books of the Bible to gain context for what is said.
II Timothy 3:14-17
But continue thou in the things which thou hast learned and hast been assured of, knowing of whom thou hast learned them;
15And that from a child thou hast known the holy scriptures, which are able to make thee wise unto salvation through faith which is in Christ Jesus.
16All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness:
17That the man of God may be perfect, throughly furnished unto all good works.
The reason for this is to develop a coherent and standardized translation and interpretation. The Bible does not allow personal interpretations that deviate from the objective truth that is presented.
II Peter 1:19-21
We have also a more sure word of prophecy; whereunto ye do well that ye take heed, as unto a light that shineth in a dark place, until the day dawn, and the day star arise in your hearts:
20Knowing this first, that no prophecy of the scripture is of any private interpretation.
21For the prophecy came not in old time by the will of man: but holy men of God spake as they were moved by the Holy Ghost.
>Is one to take it in a literal sense? Because no, and we can go into that if you want.
I'm not sure why you think this is literal except by misunderstanding what a literal interpretation of the Scripture means. Not every single sentence will be literal because it will indicate when it is making use of imagery. For instance, this passage says to hear instruction and don't forsake law. These will be an ornament and chains. This is a picture of what these things will be like to you. Understanding this is figurative language does not mean that the literal sense is lost, because to understand this passage, you do have to take the instruction and law literally and understand they will be like ornaments and chains. A figurative interpretation is not always to be avoided when interpreting literally.
Now, it is important to understand what ornaments and chains are, because as you mention:
>The concept of "cranial adornments" and "chains (onerous) around my neck" are not welcome ones.
I don't see why the ornament on your head is not welcome as it is saying that when you follow righteous instruction from your father and the righteous law of your mother, you will end up standing out among those that are wild, reckless, and rebellious. It will be as if you have a fancy ornament on your head, a symbol of status and recognition of value.
The chains are something I can understand more of a problem with. This one has two interpretative angles, both of which have some value. First, chains around the neck when paired with head ornaments would picture necklaces, more status symbols and showing value. However, I do see more of a pointing towards chains as something that will lock you in place. This is not always a bad thing as something that is wild, rebellious, and otherwise needs to be kept stationary within bounds needs a chain.
We see chains as an objective evil because of the connection with the concept that all slavery is evil. Thus, when the Bible has language that stated things in terms of slavery and being kept from going too far, our minds naturally categorize these concepts with evil.
>These are the clear language of bondage.
One is. I don't get what you are seeing with the head ornaments one. They did live next to Egypt and Babylon. Fancy head pieces were all the rage back in the day.
>Appreciating that perception and experience depends on individual context, David (in this bit) does NOT validate his point on a holistic scale.
First off, it is Solomon writing here. This is why I went over context of who was writing.
Second, this is why context from the rest of the Bible adding to what is written is important. This one verse does not provide the evidence you desire, but it is true on its own. This is why Solomon states that if you don't have a fear of the Lord, you will reject what is stated. If you don't have a relationship with God, which means you have a foundation in understanding who He is and what He wants which is found in context of the whole Bible, you will not see what is stated as true.
>Yes, he goes on to attempt to in following chapters; attempt to being the operative phrase, and he will describe another type of bondage.
Bondage is a good thing when it is done both correctly by the bonder and for the right purpose towards the bonded. For instance, bolting something to the ground is objectively a good thing when the item is bonded correctly to the ground, the purpose of the bonding is right such as making sure a table does not fall over when expected pressure is applied, and that the bonder does it rightly, in that there is no evil intent in the bonding of something to the ground.
This is brought up throughout the Bible. I even referenced one instance already.
Colossians 3:22
Servants, obey in all things your masters according to the flesh; not with eyeservice, as menpleasers; but in singleness of heart, fearing God:
God wants servants, slaves to a master, to obey all thing not just to appear obedience, not just to please someone, but do so because you fear God.
>>8355
The concept of both good and evil slavery is something that eludes the modern era. Both good and bad slavery exists within the Bible.
Deuteronomy 26:6-8
And the Egyptians evil entreated us, and afflicted us, and laid upon us hard bondage:
7And when we cried unto the LORD God of our fathers, the LORD heard our voice, and looked on our affliction, and our labour, and our oppression:
8And the LORD brought us forth out of Egypt with a mighty hand, and with an outstretched arm, and with great terribleness, and with signs, and with wonders:
Romans 6:14-18
For sin shall not have dominion over you: for ye are not under the law, but under grace.
15What then? shall we sin, because we are not under the law, but under grace? God forbid.
16Know ye not, that to whom ye yield yourselves servants to obey, his servants ye are to whom ye obey; whether of sin unto death, or of obedience unto righteousness?
17But God be thanked, that ye were the servants of sin, but ye have obeyed from the heart that form of doctrine which was delivered you.
18Being then made free from sin, ye became the servants of righteousness.
God makes no attempt to hide the truth that there is no limitless freedom in this world. Everything that man can do is limited at best, chained to one thing or another. Though many people will state that they are free, and any bondage would be bad, they live a life that proves the opposite to be true. There is either a slavery to sin, which the world and the flesh believe to be freedom while providing chains towards destructive behavior, or a slavery towards God which is stated to be true freedom, chained to what is good and not to what destroys. One that serves himself will find the chains do not allow for freedom from ever increasing sin.
The evidence for this can be found quite simply in the sexual perversion that is allowed. It began with the flawed argument that in a lack of active harm, it should be allowed. And even though there are pushes against it from those that now notice harm, it will remain, because there is no argument against the core of the perversion. People are chained to it because to say there is a fundamental problem with it comes from a moral foundation that can demand being chained away from it, which is actual freedom. If allowing and encouraging evil and being ok with the extinguishing of good is freedom, I want no part in it.
John 8:31-47
Then said Jesus to those Jews which believed on him, If ye continue in my word, then are ye my disciples indeed;
32And ye shall know the truth, and the truth shall make you free.
33They answered him, We be Abraham's seed, and were never in bondage to any man: how sayest thou, Ye shall be made free?
34Jesus answered them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, Whosoever committeth sin is the servant of sin.
35And the servant abideth not in the house for ever: but the Son abideth ever.
36If the Son therefore shall make you free, ye shall be free indeed.
37I know that ye are Abraham's seed; but ye seek to kill me, because my word hath no place in you.
38I speak that which I have seen with my Father: and ye do that which ye have seen with your father.
39They answered and said unto him, Abraham is our father. Jesus saith unto them, If ye were Abraham's children, ye would do the works of Abraham.
40But now ye seek to kill me, a man that hath told you the truth, which I have heard of God: this did not Abraham.
41Ye do the deeds of your father. Then said they to him, We be not born of fornication; we have one Father, even God.
42Jesus said unto them, If God were your Father, ye would love me: for I proceeded forth and came from God; neither came I of myself, but he sent me.
43Why do ye not understand my speech? even because ye cannot hear my word.
44Ye are of your father the devil, and the lusts of your father ye will do. He was a murderer from the beginning, and abode not in the truth, because there is no truth in him. When he speaketh a lie, he speaketh of his own: for he is a liar, and the father of it.
45And because I tell you the truth, ye believe me not.
46Which of you convinceth me of sin? And if I say the truth, why do ye not believe me?
47He that is of God heareth God's words: ye therefore hear them not, because ye are not of God.
So, all of this to explain the chain statement. I don’t mind if the verse refers to a chain that keeps on in place, because the place that a parent ought to keep a child is away from evil and around Christ. This is true freedom.
The concept of both good and evil slavery is something that eludes the modern era. Both good and bad slavery exists within the Bible.
Deuteronomy 26:6-8
And the Egyptians evil entreated us, and afflicted us, and laid upon us hard bondage:
7And when we cried unto the LORD God of our fathers, the LORD heard our voice, and looked on our affliction, and our labour, and our oppression:
8And the LORD brought us forth out of Egypt with a mighty hand, and with an outstretched arm, and with great terribleness, and with signs, and with wonders:
Romans 6:14-18
For sin shall not have dominion over you: for ye are not under the law, but under grace.
15What then? shall we sin, because we are not under the law, but under grace? God forbid.
16Know ye not, that to whom ye yield yourselves servants to obey, his servants ye are to whom ye obey; whether of sin unto death, or of obedience unto righteousness?
17But God be thanked, that ye were the servants of sin, but ye have obeyed from the heart that form of doctrine which was delivered you.
18Being then made free from sin, ye became the servants of righteousness.
God makes no attempt to hide the truth that there is no limitless freedom in this world. Everything that man can do is limited at best, chained to one thing or another. Though many people will state that they are free, and any bondage would be bad, they live a life that proves the opposite to be true. There is either a slavery to sin, which the world and the flesh believe to be freedom while providing chains towards destructive behavior, or a slavery towards God which is stated to be true freedom, chained to what is good and not to what destroys. One that serves himself will find the chains do not allow for freedom from ever increasing sin.
The evidence for this can be found quite simply in the sexual perversion that is allowed. It began with the flawed argument that in a lack of active harm, it should be allowed. And even though there are pushes against it from those that now notice harm, it will remain, because there is no argument against the core of the perversion. People are chained to it because to say there is a fundamental problem with it comes from a moral foundation that can demand being chained away from it, which is actual freedom. If allowing and encouraging evil and being ok with the extinguishing of good is freedom, I want no part in it.
John 8:31-47
Then said Jesus to those Jews which believed on him, If ye continue in my word, then are ye my disciples indeed;
32And ye shall know the truth, and the truth shall make you free.
33They answered him, We be Abraham's seed, and were never in bondage to any man: how sayest thou, Ye shall be made free?
34Jesus answered them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, Whosoever committeth sin is the servant of sin.
35And the servant abideth not in the house for ever: but the Son abideth ever.
36If the Son therefore shall make you free, ye shall be free indeed.
37I know that ye are Abraham's seed; but ye seek to kill me, because my word hath no place in you.
38I speak that which I have seen with my Father: and ye do that which ye have seen with your father.
39They answered and said unto him, Abraham is our father. Jesus saith unto them, If ye were Abraham's children, ye would do the works of Abraham.
40But now ye seek to kill me, a man that hath told you the truth, which I have heard of God: this did not Abraham.
41Ye do the deeds of your father. Then said they to him, We be not born of fornication; we have one Father, even God.
42Jesus said unto them, If God were your Father, ye would love me: for I proceeded forth and came from God; neither came I of myself, but he sent me.
43Why do ye not understand my speech? even because ye cannot hear my word.
44Ye are of your father the devil, and the lusts of your father ye will do. He was a murderer from the beginning, and abode not in the truth, because there is no truth in him. When he speaketh a lie, he speaketh of his own: for he is a liar, and the father of it.
45And because I tell you the truth, ye believe me not.
46Which of you convinceth me of sin? And if I say the truth, why do ye not believe me?
47He that is of God heareth God's words: ye therefore hear them not, because ye are not of God.
So, all of this to explain the chain statement. I don’t mind if the verse refers to a chain that keeps on in place, because the place that a parent ought to keep a child is away from evil and around Christ. This is true freedom.
>>8356
Psalms 127:3-5
Lo, children are an heritage of the LORD: and the fruit of the womb is his reward.
4As arrows are in the hand of a mighty man; so are children of the youth.
5Happy is the man that hath his quiver full of them: they shall not be ashamed, but they shall speak with the enemies in the gate.
Proverbs 22:6
Train up a child in the way he should go: and when he is old, he will not depart from it.
The image that the Bible is trying to show is that a parent guides a child like an arrow. The best outcome is that the child does not swerve off target. You want the arrow to fly true, not departing from what is right. Thus, a chain of restraint is fine in this context.
>When describing what I conceptualize as the Lord, there IS no fear.
I mean no offense, but what you conceptualize is irrelevant. God is alive and is not controlled by the thoughts and expectations of others.
Exodus 3:13-14
And Moses said unto God, Behold, when I come unto the children of Israel, and shall say unto them, The God of your fathers hath sent me unto you; and they shall say to me, What is his name? what shall I say unto them?
14And God said unto Moses, I AM THAT I AM: and he said, Thus shalt thou say unto the children of Israel, I AM hath sent me unto you.
Mark 12:18-27
Then come unto him the Sadducees, which say there is no resurrection; and they asked him, saying,
19Master, Moses wrote unto us, If a man's brother die, and leave his wife behind him, and leave no children, that his brother should take his wife, and raise up seed unto his brother.
20Now there were seven brethren: and the first took a wife, and dying left no seed.
21And the second took her, and died, neither left he any seed: and the third likewise.
22And the seven had her, and left no seed: last of all the woman died also.
23In the resurrection therefore, when they shall rise, whose wife shall she be of them? for the seven had her to wife.
24And Jesus answering said unto them, Do ye not therefore err, because ye know not the scriptures, neither the power of God?
25For when they shall rise from the dead, they neither marry, nor are given in marriage; but are as the angels which are in heaven.
26And as touching the dead, that they rise: have ye not read in the book of Moses, how in the bush God spake unto him, saying, I am the God of Abraham, and the God of Isaac, and the God of Jacob?
27He is not the God of the dead, but the God of the living: ye therefore do greatly err.
I Thessalonians 1:8-9
For from you sounded out the word of the Lord not only in Macedonia and Achaia, but also in every place your faith to God-ward is spread abroad; so that we need not to speak any thing.
9For they themselves shew of us what manner of entering in we had unto you, and how ye turned to God from idols to serve the living and true God;
So, when the Bible says that a fear of God exists, it exists regardless of your image of God that you created.
>There is only knowledge of what is, and a respect of what could become of me if I foolishly subject myself to it.
Knowledge is a good start, but relationship is the goal, not simply knowing something to be so.
>So, while not intending to discourage the "now turn to chapter this" and then "and now chapter that", I will stick to one book.
Though I can understand wanting to stay in one book for simplicity’s sake, it is simply not possible. I will not be able to reference why Solomon writes as he does if I don’t reference other Scripture passages. This Scripture is informing us why what is stated is true. If you choose to ignore what is stated as profitable for doctrine, reproof, correction, and instruction, you will be left with your own reason. This is not how the Bible works. Every statement that I make needs to be backed up with Bible references first and reason second. To look at each verse and determine if it sounds good to me or not will prevent the truth from being revealed that it is correct by nature of it reflecting God’s Word elsewhere.
More Proverbs in a bit. I hope you will stick around for it.
Psalms 127:3-5
Lo, children are an heritage of the LORD: and the fruit of the womb is his reward.
4As arrows are in the hand of a mighty man; so are children of the youth.
5Happy is the man that hath his quiver full of them: they shall not be ashamed, but they shall speak with the enemies in the gate.
Proverbs 22:6
Train up a child in the way he should go: and when he is old, he will not depart from it.
The image that the Bible is trying to show is that a parent guides a child like an arrow. The best outcome is that the child does not swerve off target. You want the arrow to fly true, not departing from what is right. Thus, a chain of restraint is fine in this context.
>When describing what I conceptualize as the Lord, there IS no fear.
I mean no offense, but what you conceptualize is irrelevant. God is alive and is not controlled by the thoughts and expectations of others.
Exodus 3:13-14
And Moses said unto God, Behold, when I come unto the children of Israel, and shall say unto them, The God of your fathers hath sent me unto you; and they shall say to me, What is his name? what shall I say unto them?
14And God said unto Moses, I AM THAT I AM: and he said, Thus shalt thou say unto the children of Israel, I AM hath sent me unto you.
Mark 12:18-27
Then come unto him the Sadducees, which say there is no resurrection; and they asked him, saying,
19Master, Moses wrote unto us, If a man's brother die, and leave his wife behind him, and leave no children, that his brother should take his wife, and raise up seed unto his brother.
20Now there were seven brethren: and the first took a wife, and dying left no seed.
21And the second took her, and died, neither left he any seed: and the third likewise.
22And the seven had her, and left no seed: last of all the woman died also.
23In the resurrection therefore, when they shall rise, whose wife shall she be of them? for the seven had her to wife.
24And Jesus answering said unto them, Do ye not therefore err, because ye know not the scriptures, neither the power of God?
25For when they shall rise from the dead, they neither marry, nor are given in marriage; but are as the angels which are in heaven.
26And as touching the dead, that they rise: have ye not read in the book of Moses, how in the bush God spake unto him, saying, I am the God of Abraham, and the God of Isaac, and the God of Jacob?
27He is not the God of the dead, but the God of the living: ye therefore do greatly err.
I Thessalonians 1:8-9
For from you sounded out the word of the Lord not only in Macedonia and Achaia, but also in every place your faith to God-ward is spread abroad; so that we need not to speak any thing.
9For they themselves shew of us what manner of entering in we had unto you, and how ye turned to God from idols to serve the living and true God;
So, when the Bible says that a fear of God exists, it exists regardless of your image of God that you created.
>There is only knowledge of what is, and a respect of what could become of me if I foolishly subject myself to it.
Knowledge is a good start, but relationship is the goal, not simply knowing something to be so.
>So, while not intending to discourage the "now turn to chapter this" and then "and now chapter that", I will stick to one book.
Though I can understand wanting to stay in one book for simplicity’s sake, it is simply not possible. I will not be able to reference why Solomon writes as he does if I don’t reference other Scripture passages. This Scripture is informing us why what is stated is true. If you choose to ignore what is stated as profitable for doctrine, reproof, correction, and instruction, you will be left with your own reason. This is not how the Bible works. Every statement that I make needs to be backed up with Bible references first and reason second. To look at each verse and determine if it sounds good to me or not will prevent the truth from being revealed that it is correct by nature of it reflecting God’s Word elsewhere.
More Proverbs in a bit. I hope you will stick around for it.
Please pardon my absence of comment, I'm still going through proverbs
>>8355
If it is desired to discuss Solomon, then we must apply proper context. Solomon was a metaphysician who had the Authority to command what was contemporaneously referred to as Daemon, which can be said to include Angels, Demons, Devils, Djinn, and Fay. Somehow, one assumes a lack of interest in having that discussion ITT.
If it is desired to discuss Solomon, then we must apply proper context. Solomon was a metaphysician who had the Authority to command what was contemporaneously referred to as Daemon, which can be said to include Angels, Demons, Devils, Djinn, and Fay. Somehow, one assumes a lack of interest in having that discussion ITT.
>>8387
Commanding daemons is not discussed in Biblical text. If you have a text that suggests this, please provide it so I can break it down.
The Bible never refers to all spiritual beings as daemons. It also only mentions the existence of angels and demons with demons being angels but fallen due to joining forces with Satan in an attempted coup of heaven. The Bible uses demons and devils interchangeably because all demons mimic the nature of Satan, referred to as the devil. Djinn and Fay are not mentioned in the Bible, so I can't comment on them without a definition that is presented so I can refer to Biblical text and show what does and does not line up.
The term metaphysician is also not mentioned in the Bible, so a definition would also be appreciated there as well. Solomon refers to himself as a king and a preacher. If a metaphysician is something else, Solomon fails to identify himself as such and also does not mention any ability to control any spiritual beings, though casting out demons was at least partially understood by the time Jesus was around. The disciples are commanded to cast out demons and in one instance they fail to and Jesus has to correct their error.
Matthew 17:14-21
And when they were come to the multitude, there came to him a certain man, kneeling down to him, and saying,
15Lord, have mercy on my son: for he is lunatick, and sore vexed: for ofttimes he falleth into the fire, and oft into the water.
16And I brought him to thy disciples, and they could not cure him.
17Then Jesus answered and said, O faithless and perverse generation, how long shall I be with you? how long shall I suffer you? bring him hither to me.
18And Jesus rebuked the devil; and he departed out of him: and the child was cured from that very hour.
19Then came the disciples to Jesus apart, and said, Why could not we cast him out?
20And Jesus said unto them, Because of your unbelief: for verily I say unto you, If ye have faith as a grain of mustard seed, ye shall say unto this mountain, Remove hence to yonder place; and it shall remove; and nothing shall be impossible unto you.
21Howbeit this kind goeth not out but by prayer and fasting.
Mark 9:14-29
And when he came to his disciples, he saw a great multitude about them, and the scribes questioning with them.
15And straightway all the people, when they beheld him, were greatly amazed, and running to him saluted him.
16And he asked the scribes, What question ye with them?
17And one of the multitude answered and said, Master, I have brought unto thee my son, which hath a dumb spirit;
18And wheresoever he taketh him, he teareth him: and he foameth, and gnasheth with his teeth, and pineth away: and I spake to thy disciples that they should cast him out; and they could not.
19He answereth him, and saith, O faithless generation, how long shall I be with you? how long shall I suffer you? bring him unto me.
20And they brought him unto him: and when he saw him, straightway the spirit tare him; and he fell on the ground, and wallowed foaming.
21And he asked his father, How long is it ago since this came unto him? And he said, Of a child.
22And ofttimes it hath cast him into the fire, and into the waters, to destroy him: but if thou canst do any thing, have compassion on us, and help us.
23Jesus said unto him, If thou canst believe, all things are possible to him that believeth.
24And straightway the father of the child cried out, and said with tears, Lord, I believe; help thou mine unbelief.
25When Jesus saw that the people came running together, he rebuked the foul spirit, saying unto him, Thou dumb and deaf spirit, I charge thee, come out of him, and enter no more into him.
26And the spirit cried, and rent him sore, and came out of him: and he was as one dead; insomuch that many said, He is dead.
27But Jesus took him by the hand, and lifted him up; and he arose.
28And when he was come into the house, his disciples asked him privately, Why could not we cast him out?
29And he said unto them, This kind can come forth by nothing, but by prayer and fasting.
So, if it is believed that Solomon could cast out a demon, I could see it being the case. As for making them do his will, this is unlikely because it is never shown in the Bible that any angel or demon will obey anything other than the command to leave. Angels are even depicted as standing in the way of things, such as the Garden of Eden, and preventing humanity to move past. This suggests they do not obey commands as their orders come from a higher authority.
Commanding daemons is not discussed in Biblical text. If you have a text that suggests this, please provide it so I can break it down.
The Bible never refers to all spiritual beings as daemons. It also only mentions the existence of angels and demons with demons being angels but fallen due to joining forces with Satan in an attempted coup of heaven. The Bible uses demons and devils interchangeably because all demons mimic the nature of Satan, referred to as the devil. Djinn and Fay are not mentioned in the Bible, so I can't comment on them without a definition that is presented so I can refer to Biblical text and show what does and does not line up.
The term metaphysician is also not mentioned in the Bible, so a definition would also be appreciated there as well. Solomon refers to himself as a king and a preacher. If a metaphysician is something else, Solomon fails to identify himself as such and also does not mention any ability to control any spiritual beings, though casting out demons was at least partially understood by the time Jesus was around. The disciples are commanded to cast out demons and in one instance they fail to and Jesus has to correct their error.
Matthew 17:14-21
And when they were come to the multitude, there came to him a certain man, kneeling down to him, and saying,
15Lord, have mercy on my son: for he is lunatick, and sore vexed: for ofttimes he falleth into the fire, and oft into the water.
16And I brought him to thy disciples, and they could not cure him.
17Then Jesus answered and said, O faithless and perverse generation, how long shall I be with you? how long shall I suffer you? bring him hither to me.
18And Jesus rebuked the devil; and he departed out of him: and the child was cured from that very hour.
19Then came the disciples to Jesus apart, and said, Why could not we cast him out?
20And Jesus said unto them, Because of your unbelief: for verily I say unto you, If ye have faith as a grain of mustard seed, ye shall say unto this mountain, Remove hence to yonder place; and it shall remove; and nothing shall be impossible unto you.
21Howbeit this kind goeth not out but by prayer and fasting.
Mark 9:14-29
And when he came to his disciples, he saw a great multitude about them, and the scribes questioning with them.
15And straightway all the people, when they beheld him, were greatly amazed, and running to him saluted him.
16And he asked the scribes, What question ye with them?
17And one of the multitude answered and said, Master, I have brought unto thee my son, which hath a dumb spirit;
18And wheresoever he taketh him, he teareth him: and he foameth, and gnasheth with his teeth, and pineth away: and I spake to thy disciples that they should cast him out; and they could not.
19He answereth him, and saith, O faithless generation, how long shall I be with you? how long shall I suffer you? bring him unto me.
20And they brought him unto him: and when he saw him, straightway the spirit tare him; and he fell on the ground, and wallowed foaming.
21And he asked his father, How long is it ago since this came unto him? And he said, Of a child.
22And ofttimes it hath cast him into the fire, and into the waters, to destroy him: but if thou canst do any thing, have compassion on us, and help us.
23Jesus said unto him, If thou canst believe, all things are possible to him that believeth.
24And straightway the father of the child cried out, and said with tears, Lord, I believe; help thou mine unbelief.
25When Jesus saw that the people came running together, he rebuked the foul spirit, saying unto him, Thou dumb and deaf spirit, I charge thee, come out of him, and enter no more into him.
26And the spirit cried, and rent him sore, and came out of him: and he was as one dead; insomuch that many said, He is dead.
27But Jesus took him by the hand, and lifted him up; and he arose.
28And when he was come into the house, his disciples asked him privately, Why could not we cast him out?
29And he said unto them, This kind can come forth by nothing, but by prayer and fasting.
So, if it is believed that Solomon could cast out a demon, I could see it being the case. As for making them do his will, this is unlikely because it is never shown in the Bible that any angel or demon will obey anything other than the command to leave. Angels are even depicted as standing in the way of things, such as the Garden of Eden, and preventing humanity to move past. This suggests they do not obey commands as their orders come from a higher authority.
>>8389
I didn't say "do his will", I said "command"; Jesus is attributed to display the same (or comparable) Authority. Metaphysicist (I said Metaphysician out of habit, they're slightly different) is one who is scient (or knowledgeable) in the hidden signs and secrets of magic; the ones that a certain faction of angels fell into ignominy for sharing.
If you are unfamiliar with the Key of Solomon, I'll be happy to provide resources.
I didn't say "do his will", I said "command"; Jesus is attributed to display the same (or comparable) Authority. Metaphysicist (I said Metaphysician out of habit, they're slightly different) is one who is scient (or knowledgeable) in the hidden signs and secrets of magic; the ones that a certain faction of angels fell into ignominy for sharing.
If you are unfamiliar with the Key of Solomon, I'll be happy to provide resources.
>>8389
Point of emphasis, while I appreciate that you religious fags LOVE to get all sanctimonious about what you perceive individuals to have been, when SOME people read "Bible study" they think "I'm gonna read, study, and think about what is written in the bible". What they AREN'T signing up for is page after page of additional reading that ostensibly is A. true and B. contributes to the comprehension of the material which it doesn't, it only contributes to the degree of fascination of the reader.
Protip: leave the sanctimoniousness for the 301 lessons, this is 101. Or isn't it? Am I in the wrong room?
Point of emphasis, while I appreciate that you religious fags LOVE to get all sanctimonious about what you perceive individuals to have been, when SOME people read "Bible study" they think "I'm gonna read, study, and think about what is written in the bible". What they AREN'T signing up for is page after page of additional reading that ostensibly is A. true and B. contributes to the comprehension of the material which it doesn't, it only contributes to the degree of fascination of the reader.
Protip: leave the sanctimoniousness for the 301 lessons, this is 101. Or isn't it? Am I in the wrong room?
>>8390
I believe I have heard about something similar to the Key of Solomon. What I remember is an item that described Solmon as what you refer to, but I do need resources to compare or an explanation from you to better tell me what I need to line up with Scripture.
As for hidden signs and magic, Solomon was stated as being wise, but it doesn't state he knew magic. This would have likely been said because magic is controversial in the Bible to say the least. Those that consult magicians are noted so I doubt that Solomon being a magician himself would not get some mention within the text, especially when detailing the sins that he confesses to having and wanting people to choose another path.
>Jesus is attributed to display the same ((or comparable) Authority
I really would like a clarification on this.
>>8391
>when SOME people read "Bible study" they think "I'm gonna read, study, and think about what is written in the bible"
Is that not what I am doing?
>What they AREN'T signing up for is page after page of additional reading that ostensibly is A. true and B. contributes to the comprehension of the material which it doesn't, it only contributes to the degree of fascination of the reader.
The page after page of additional reading is designed to explain what you are reading, which is how you study and think about what you read.
Think about like this. If I tell you 1+1=2, you can either accept this as true or study this equation. When you study the equation, you need details to show you why 1+1=2. My references are like grabbing one apple and another and putting them together, then grabbing an orange and another and putting them together, and so on. This shows the pattern that will allow you to see why 1+1=2. If I just say "Solomon was smart and this passage is correct because you read it", it isn't really a study.
>leave the sanctimoniousness for the 301 lessons
I am not intending to. I am trying to provide sources and why I am thinking as I am. When I say Jesus can cast out demons and has specific information to share about that, I show the source for that. I don't just say these things exist and trust me that it is right.
>this is 101. Or isn't it? Am I in the wrong room?
It is 101 and 301. The problem is that Proverbs is a bit advanced because it isn't a good starting point without a bit of understanding about why this guy wants to write about smart stuff. Discussing angels and demons is even more advanced and take far more references and logical debate to get to a satisfying answer instead of just an opinion based on my feelings. If you want 101, we might start off at the Gospels or Genesis because those are easier to start with and not get lost in too many details to get started with, even if I could.
I believe I have heard about something similar to the Key of Solomon. What I remember is an item that described Solmon as what you refer to, but I do need resources to compare or an explanation from you to better tell me what I need to line up with Scripture.
As for hidden signs and magic, Solomon was stated as being wise, but it doesn't state he knew magic. This would have likely been said because magic is controversial in the Bible to say the least. Those that consult magicians are noted so I doubt that Solomon being a magician himself would not get some mention within the text, especially when detailing the sins that he confesses to having and wanting people to choose another path.
>Jesus is attributed to display the same ((or comparable) Authority
I really would like a clarification on this.
>>8391
>when SOME people read "Bible study" they think "I'm gonna read, study, and think about what is written in the bible"
Is that not what I am doing?
>What they AREN'T signing up for is page after page of additional reading that ostensibly is A. true and B. contributes to the comprehension of the material which it doesn't, it only contributes to the degree of fascination of the reader.
The page after page of additional reading is designed to explain what you are reading, which is how you study and think about what you read.
Think about like this. If I tell you 1+1=2, you can either accept this as true or study this equation. When you study the equation, you need details to show you why 1+1=2. My references are like grabbing one apple and another and putting them together, then grabbing an orange and another and putting them together, and so on. This shows the pattern that will allow you to see why 1+1=2. If I just say "Solomon was smart and this passage is correct because you read it", it isn't really a study.
>leave the sanctimoniousness for the 301 lessons
I am not intending to. I am trying to provide sources and why I am thinking as I am. When I say Jesus can cast out demons and has specific information to share about that, I show the source for that. I don't just say these things exist and trust me that it is right.
>this is 101. Or isn't it? Am I in the wrong room?
It is 101 and 301. The problem is that Proverbs is a bit advanced because it isn't a good starting point without a bit of understanding about why this guy wants to write about smart stuff. Discussing angels and demons is even more advanced and take far more references and logical debate to get to a satisfying answer instead of just an opinion based on my feelings. If you want 101, we might start off at the Gospels or Genesis because those are easier to start with and not get lost in too many details to get started with, even if I could.
Hey everyone is been a long time.
Does a person need the interconnected links between works, yes and able to stand alone.
With the Bible as a library of a love song there's greater context with all works together in the way the author intends.
Point being someone to help read is needed, ie The Holy Ghost. Which is possible via Jesus and his spilt blood.
Else it's the folly of the garden of Eden and the turning away from the one who loves the most.
Solomon shows wisdom his relationship with God (at the beginning of the reign) and then assuming his own wisdom is sufficiant throws God away for corrupted reality pillars of might (money, slaves, women, politicking, so called other gods, weapons, army ect.). Which is part of a recurring theme: substituting our Father leads to fucking around and the finding out.
The starting point to bootstrap into fully armored and equiped is the all accounts of the Good News.
So Romans is the start to be equiped with the lit lamp.
The OT shows rehabilitation steps and proofs of what does and doesn't work while being all a foreshadowing for the God's son's competed work.
So Proverbs, the book about what is likely to occur in life and the expected outcomes by what is chosen.
Job, about the theoretical person who perfectly has done Proverbs getting curbstomped, because it isn't that simple.
Ecclesiastes, about sorrow for the fallen world and man, with great wisdom comes great pain, yet saw a glimpse of the King of Kings. It isn't about what currently is in the fallen world, is what comes after. The only one reliable is God.
The Song Of Songs, never gonna give you up never gonna let you down never gonna turn around a hurt you.
Does a person need the interconnected links between works, yes and able to stand alone.
With the Bible as a library of a love song there's greater context with all works together in the way the author intends.
Point being someone to help read is needed, ie The Holy Ghost. Which is possible via Jesus and his spilt blood.
Else it's the folly of the garden of Eden and the turning away from the one who loves the most.
Solomon shows wisdom his relationship with God (at the beginning of the reign) and then assuming his own wisdom is sufficiant throws God away for corrupted reality pillars of might (money, slaves, women, politicking, so called other gods, weapons, army ect.). Which is part of a recurring theme: substituting our Father leads to fucking around and the finding out.
The starting point to bootstrap into fully armored and equiped is the all accounts of the Good News.
So Romans is the start to be equiped with the lit lamp.
The OT shows rehabilitation steps and proofs of what does and doesn't work while being all a foreshadowing for the God's son's competed work.
So Proverbs, the book about what is likely to occur in life and the expected outcomes by what is chosen.
Job, about the theoretical person who perfectly has done Proverbs getting curbstomped, because it isn't that simple.
Ecclesiastes, about sorrow for the fallen world and man, with great wisdom comes great pain, yet saw a glimpse of the King of Kings. It isn't about what currently is in the fallen world, is what comes after. The only one reliable is God.
The Song Of Songs, never gonna give you up never gonna let you down never gonna turn around a hurt you.
Man I haven't posted on this in a while; in fact, I haven’t posted on this site this year, so I just wanted to say God bless, and I hope you all have a happy new year, and you will be in my prayers tonight. Good night Sleep tight
>>8394
Let me better explain what I mean. The Bible is an intimidating read on it's face. To a person who hasn't been reading it for decades, it is already quite complicated enough. My intention ITT - appreciating that you're OP - is to read the bible book by book until completion, analyzing each book in isolation. AFTER that, I'll be happy to start jumping through the "turn now to this book/section" stuff, but a foundational understanding of 'who is said to have said/done what and when' is MY first intention. And, while there's undoubtedly plenty to be gleaned from an investigation of Solomon the figure (both what is written and what has been removed Xp), there is enough wisdom in Proverbs that one can glean plenty without emphasizing the cross-refenced nature of the whole of the Bible.
Let me better explain what I mean. The Bible is an intimidating read on it's face. To a person who hasn't been reading it for decades, it is already quite complicated enough. My intention ITT - appreciating that you're OP - is to read the bible book by book until completion, analyzing each book in isolation. AFTER that, I'll be happy to start jumping through the "turn now to this book/section" stuff, but a foundational understanding of 'who is said to have said/done what and when' is MY first intention. And, while there's undoubtedly plenty to be gleaned from an investigation of Solomon the figure (both what is written and what has been removed Xp), there is enough wisdom in Proverbs that one can glean plenty without emphasizing the cross-refenced nature of the whole of the Bible.
>>8397
I appreciate that you are new to the text, but this is like reading about the Civil War without wanting to read anything about who the South or North were, who ran their nations, and what their culture and economics were like to explain why the war was fought and why who won was indeed the victor. By reading the Civil War just to find the winner, you can find out the answer to that question, but the importance is lost if you don't want to study.
We can do something easier if you want, but there are specific starting points that I suggest beginning with. Children typically don't start with algebra and have to learn the concepts of addition, subtraction, multiplication, and division first. I can go through Proverbs and just repeat what is stated in the text, but this is like telling a child 2x=14. You don't even tell them to solve for x, just that 2x=14. This information in isolation is only so useful. This is why study is important, to learn that x=14/2 and x=7, then figuring out how to solve for x in the future.
By starting at a more natural beginning point, you won't need to jump around nearly as much because you will be building the information as you go. By diving in the middle, you absolutely do need to cross-reference to some degree.
Here is a good example:
Jude 1:11
Woe unto them! for they have gone in the way of Cain, and ran greedily after the error of Balaam for reward, and perished in the gainsaying of Core.
Tell me, who or what is Core? Do you know? If you don't care, then you have to skip over this bit of information and thus are not really studying. If you cross-reference, you learn who Core is and why he is listed along with Cain and gain an understanding of the text through study. Some texts are easier to glide through than others, but you can't just say zero references and explanations please. It runs counter to the purpose of study.
If you want me to dumb it down, you just need to highlight what I said that you don't understand or a part of the text that you want to focus on. Otherwise, I have to simply go through the entirety of the text and try to highlight things myself, which will vary from the simple to the complex.
I appreciate that you are new to the text, but this is like reading about the Civil War without wanting to read anything about who the South or North were, who ran their nations, and what their culture and economics were like to explain why the war was fought and why who won was indeed the victor. By reading the Civil War just to find the winner, you can find out the answer to that question, but the importance is lost if you don't want to study.
We can do something easier if you want, but there are specific starting points that I suggest beginning with. Children typically don't start with algebra and have to learn the concepts of addition, subtraction, multiplication, and division first. I can go through Proverbs and just repeat what is stated in the text, but this is like telling a child 2x=14. You don't even tell them to solve for x, just that 2x=14. This information in isolation is only so useful. This is why study is important, to learn that x=14/2 and x=7, then figuring out how to solve for x in the future.
By starting at a more natural beginning point, you won't need to jump around nearly as much because you will be building the information as you go. By diving in the middle, you absolutely do need to cross-reference to some degree.
Here is a good example:
Jude 1:11
Woe unto them! for they have gone in the way of Cain, and ran greedily after the error of Balaam for reward, and perished in the gainsaying of Core.
Tell me, who or what is Core? Do you know? If you don't care, then you have to skip over this bit of information and thus are not really studying. If you cross-reference, you learn who Core is and why he is listed along with Cain and gain an understanding of the text through study. Some texts are easier to glide through than others, but you can't just say zero references and explanations please. It runs counter to the purpose of study.
If you want me to dumb it down, you just need to highlight what I said that you don't understand or a part of the text that you want to focus on. Otherwise, I have to simply go through the entirety of the text and try to highlight things myself, which will vary from the simple to the complex.
>>8399
No, it's like reading the Proverbs of Solomon without worrying AT THE GATE who Solomon was. Thats a false equivalence to suggest it's like reading a story of the Civil War without understanding all the rest. I'M SAYING WE'LL GET TO THAT, and no I'm not trying to hijack the intent/direction of the thread, but I am explaining why I want to beat you with a newspaper right now.
>starting with algebra
Metaphysics is more like advanced Calculus than algebra, and yes, I do come into this knowing advanced Calculus. So please pardon if I want to thoroughly familiarize myself with the "addition, subtraction, multiplication, and division" of all this, which pardon me for saying seems to be the CONTENT OF THE INDIVIDUAL BOOKS THEMSELVES, after which we can get into the algebra.
Let me be clear. I know many of the seals of Solomon. Let's just stick to proverbs, or rather pardon me while I do.
No, it's like reading the Proverbs of Solomon without worrying AT THE GATE who Solomon was. Thats a false equivalence to suggest it's like reading a story of the Civil War without understanding all the rest. I'M SAYING WE'LL GET TO THAT, and no I'm not trying to hijack the intent/direction of the thread, but I am explaining why I want to beat you with a newspaper right now.
>starting with algebra
Metaphysics is more like advanced Calculus than algebra, and yes, I do come into this knowing advanced Calculus. So please pardon if I want to thoroughly familiarize myself with the "addition, subtraction, multiplication, and division" of all this, which pardon me for saying seems to be the CONTENT OF THE INDIVIDUAL BOOKS THEMSELVES, after which we can get into the algebra.
Let me be clear. I know many of the seals of Solomon. Let's just stick to proverbs, or rather pardon me while I do.
Well, regardless of anon not liking my teaching style, I will still slowly go through Proverbs.
Proverbs 1:10-19
My son, if sinners entice thee, consent thou not.
11If they say, Come with us, let us lay wait for blood, let us lurk privily for the innocent without cause:
12Let us swallow them up alive as the grave; and whole, as those that go down into the pit:
13We shall find all precious substance, we shall fill our houses with spoil:
14Cast in thy lot among us; let us all have one purse:
15My son, walk not thou in the way with them; refrain thy foot from their path:
16For their feet run to evil, and make haste to shed blood.
17Surely in vain the net is spread in the sight of any bird.
18And they lay wait for their own blood; they lurk privily for their own lives.
19So are the ways of every one that is greedy of gain; which taketh away the life of the owners thereof.
So, why does Solomon say “My son” in this passage? It isn’t just a term of endearment. Solomon had a son that was set to rule that needed to hear the wisdom to rule well. Unfortunately, like what is often the case, the son ignored everything that was told to him.
II Chronicles 10:6-19
And king Rehoboam took counsel with the old men that had stood before Solomon his father while he yet lived, saying, What counsel give ye me to return answer to this people?
7And they spake unto him, saying, If thou be kind to this people, and please them, and speak good words to them, they will be thy servants for ever.
8But he forsook the counsel which the old men gave him, and took counsel with the young men that were brought up with him, that stood before him.
9And he said unto them, What advice give ye that we may return answer to this people, which have spoken to me, saying, Ease somewhat the yoke that thy father did put upon us?
10And the young men that were brought up with him spake unto him, saying, Thus shalt thou answer the people that spake unto thee, saying, Thy father made our yoke heavy, but make thou it somewhat lighter for us; thus shalt thou say unto them, My little finger shall be thicker than my father's loins.
11For whereas my father put a heavy yoke upon you, I will put more to your yoke: my father chastised you with whips, but I will chastise you with scorpions.
12So Jeroboam and all the people came to Rehoboam on the third day, as the king bade, saying, Come again to me on the third day.
13And the king answered them roughly; and king Rehoboam forsook the counsel of the old men,
14And answered them after the advice of the young men, saying, My father made your yoke heavy, but I will add thereto: my father chastised you with whips, but I will chastise you with scorpions.
15So the king hearkened not unto the people: for the cause was of God, that the LORD might perform his word, which he spake by the hand of Ahijah the Shilonite to Jeroboam the son of Nebat.
16And when all Israel saw that the king would not hearken unto them, the people answered the king, saying, What portion have we in David? and we have none inheritance in the son of Jesse: every man to your tents, O Israel: and now, David, see to thine own house. So all Israel went to their tents.
17But as for the children of Israel that dwelt in the cities of Judah, Rehoboam reigned over them.
18Then king Rehoboam sent Hadoram that was over the tribute; and the children of Israel stoned him with stones, that he died. But king Rehoboam made speed to get him up to his chariot, to flee to Jerusalem.
19And Israel rebelled against the house of David unto this day.
Rehoboam did not seek wise counsel, or wisdom from elders, or even just decent people. He listened to the exact people that Solomon warned him to avoid. The young counsel were happy greedy, wanting Rehoboam to be even greater than Solomon, and wanted to persecute the innocent, hungry for blood. Though we can easily learn from the Proverbs, there are two levels that it was written for: advice for Solomon’s sons and advice for the people. Both of these are true but understanding them helps us know why Solomon speaks in certain ways, focusing on some things and rushing others.
So, we see that Solomon is telling his son about not falling in with bad crowds. A useful lesson. We then shift a bit as Solomon tells his son what the result of failing to understand wisdom will be.
Proverbs 1:20-33
Wisdom crieth without; she uttereth her voice in the streets:
21She crieth in the chief place of concourse, in the openings of the gates: in the city she uttereth her words, saying,
22How long, ye simple ones, will ye love simplicity? and the scorners delight in their scorning, and fools hate knowledge?
23Turn you at my reproof: behold, I will pour out my spirit unto you, I will make known my words unto you.
24Because I have called, and ye refused; I have stretched out my hand, and no man regarded;
25But ye have set at nought all my counsel, and would none of my reproof:
26I also will laugh at your calamity; I will mock when your fear cometh;
27When your fear cometh as desolation, and your destruction cometh as a whirlwind; when distress and anguish cometh upon you.
28Then shall they call upon me, but I will not answer; they shall seek me early, but they shall not find me:
29For that they hated knowledge, and did not choose the fear of the LORD:
30They would none of my counsel: they despised all my reproof.
31Therefore shall they eat of the fruit of their own way, and be filled with their own devices.
32For the turning away of the simple shall slay them, and the prosperity of fools shall destroy them.
33But whoso hearkeneth unto me shall dwell safely, and shall be quiet from fear of evil.
Proverbs 1:10-19
My son, if sinners entice thee, consent thou not.
11If they say, Come with us, let us lay wait for blood, let us lurk privily for the innocent without cause:
12Let us swallow them up alive as the grave; and whole, as those that go down into the pit:
13We shall find all precious substance, we shall fill our houses with spoil:
14Cast in thy lot among us; let us all have one purse:
15My son, walk not thou in the way with them; refrain thy foot from their path:
16For their feet run to evil, and make haste to shed blood.
17Surely in vain the net is spread in the sight of any bird.
18And they lay wait for their own blood; they lurk privily for their own lives.
19So are the ways of every one that is greedy of gain; which taketh away the life of the owners thereof.
So, why does Solomon say “My son” in this passage? It isn’t just a term of endearment. Solomon had a son that was set to rule that needed to hear the wisdom to rule well. Unfortunately, like what is often the case, the son ignored everything that was told to him.
II Chronicles 10:6-19
And king Rehoboam took counsel with the old men that had stood before Solomon his father while he yet lived, saying, What counsel give ye me to return answer to this people?
7And they spake unto him, saying, If thou be kind to this people, and please them, and speak good words to them, they will be thy servants for ever.
8But he forsook the counsel which the old men gave him, and took counsel with the young men that were brought up with him, that stood before him.
9And he said unto them, What advice give ye that we may return answer to this people, which have spoken to me, saying, Ease somewhat the yoke that thy father did put upon us?
10And the young men that were brought up with him spake unto him, saying, Thus shalt thou answer the people that spake unto thee, saying, Thy father made our yoke heavy, but make thou it somewhat lighter for us; thus shalt thou say unto them, My little finger shall be thicker than my father's loins.
11For whereas my father put a heavy yoke upon you, I will put more to your yoke: my father chastised you with whips, but I will chastise you with scorpions.
12So Jeroboam and all the people came to Rehoboam on the third day, as the king bade, saying, Come again to me on the third day.
13And the king answered them roughly; and king Rehoboam forsook the counsel of the old men,
14And answered them after the advice of the young men, saying, My father made your yoke heavy, but I will add thereto: my father chastised you with whips, but I will chastise you with scorpions.
15So the king hearkened not unto the people: for the cause was of God, that the LORD might perform his word, which he spake by the hand of Ahijah the Shilonite to Jeroboam the son of Nebat.
16And when all Israel saw that the king would not hearken unto them, the people answered the king, saying, What portion have we in David? and we have none inheritance in the son of Jesse: every man to your tents, O Israel: and now, David, see to thine own house. So all Israel went to their tents.
17But as for the children of Israel that dwelt in the cities of Judah, Rehoboam reigned over them.
18Then king Rehoboam sent Hadoram that was over the tribute; and the children of Israel stoned him with stones, that he died. But king Rehoboam made speed to get him up to his chariot, to flee to Jerusalem.
19And Israel rebelled against the house of David unto this day.
Rehoboam did not seek wise counsel, or wisdom from elders, or even just decent people. He listened to the exact people that Solomon warned him to avoid. The young counsel were happy greedy, wanting Rehoboam to be even greater than Solomon, and wanted to persecute the innocent, hungry for blood. Though we can easily learn from the Proverbs, there are two levels that it was written for: advice for Solomon’s sons and advice for the people. Both of these are true but understanding them helps us know why Solomon speaks in certain ways, focusing on some things and rushing others.
So, we see that Solomon is telling his son about not falling in with bad crowds. A useful lesson. We then shift a bit as Solomon tells his son what the result of failing to understand wisdom will be.
Proverbs 1:20-33
Wisdom crieth without; she uttereth her voice in the streets:
21She crieth in the chief place of concourse, in the openings of the gates: in the city she uttereth her words, saying,
22How long, ye simple ones, will ye love simplicity? and the scorners delight in their scorning, and fools hate knowledge?
23Turn you at my reproof: behold, I will pour out my spirit unto you, I will make known my words unto you.
24Because I have called, and ye refused; I have stretched out my hand, and no man regarded;
25But ye have set at nought all my counsel, and would none of my reproof:
26I also will laugh at your calamity; I will mock when your fear cometh;
27When your fear cometh as desolation, and your destruction cometh as a whirlwind; when distress and anguish cometh upon you.
28Then shall they call upon me, but I will not answer; they shall seek me early, but they shall not find me:
29For that they hated knowledge, and did not choose the fear of the LORD:
30They would none of my counsel: they despised all my reproof.
31Therefore shall they eat of the fruit of their own way, and be filled with their own devices.
32For the turning away of the simple shall slay them, and the prosperity of fools shall destroy them.
33But whoso hearkeneth unto me shall dwell safely, and shall be quiet from fear of evil.
>>8413
He also emphasizes that the fear of the Lord and hating knowledge is how come they can’t obtain it. It is shown as the source of the wisdom that would prevent the calamity that dooms those, like Rehoboam, to suffering needlessly. He finishes this section by stating that those that despise reproof or being told something that convicts of wrong doing, will do as they please, filled with their own devices. But this will end up killing them and destroying what they have, again foretelling of the disaster that Rehoboam would cause, beginning the Israeli civil war and setting in motion many events that led to the Jewish problem we have today.
In other words, a large amount of our suffering is because one guy refused to listen to his dad. Thanks Rehobama.
More lessons to follow. I hope you enjoy.
He also emphasizes that the fear of the Lord and hating knowledge is how come they can’t obtain it. It is shown as the source of the wisdom that would prevent the calamity that dooms those, like Rehoboam, to suffering needlessly. He finishes this section by stating that those that despise reproof or being told something that convicts of wrong doing, will do as they please, filled with their own devices. But this will end up killing them and destroying what they have, again foretelling of the disaster that Rehoboam would cause, beginning the Israeli civil war and setting in motion many events that led to the Jewish problem we have today.
In other words, a large amount of our suffering is because one guy refused to listen to his dad. Thanks Rehobama.
More lessons to follow. I hope you enjoy.
>>8413
*SIGH*
Have you ever watched a movie for the first time, alongside someone who has watched it dozens of times and "doesn't want you to miss out on the nuance" and ends up bombarding you with details that actually ruins the experience?
That's what's happening right now.
*SIGH*
Have you ever watched a movie for the first time, alongside someone who has watched it dozens of times and "doesn't want you to miss out on the nuance" and ends up bombarding you with details that actually ruins the experience?
That's what's happening right now.
I know (you) bible-fags think you're helping, but you aren't. You're making it worse for people who are on the fence and are tentative. Consider holding off on the authoritarian cock, that's why most people avoid Christiandom in the first place. Not here to be lectured at, thank you.
1741913302.jpg (176.1 KB, 841x901, 65eb2f2f9bf9c0b58b612193ff98bce5.jpeg)
>>8447
>That's why most people avoid Christiandom in the first place.
Most people✝ avoid the Christian lifestyle because they were raised by a culture and a religion the explicitly prohibits and goes against Christian train of thought.
✝While their humanity is up for debate, "People" in this case does include Muslims, Jews, Hindus, and Chinese who make up a majority of the world's population
>That's why most people avoid Christiandom in the first place.
Most people✝ avoid the Christian lifestyle because they were raised by a culture and a religion the explicitly prohibits and goes against Christian train of thought.
✝While their humanity is up for debate, "People" in this case does include Muslims, Jews, Hindus, and Chinese who make up a majority of the world's population
Thats metaphysically Muslim, in scope
>Oh we don't want to actually KILL and RAPE people, we just want to imagine them getting killed and raped in the afterlife.
That's not what Jesus - not his name btw - was about
>Oh we don't want to actually KILL and RAPE people, we just want to imagine them getting killed and raped in the afterlife.
That's not what Jesus - not his name btw - was about
>>8452
You seem to think I care what your position is. My position remains unspoken.
>force the bump limit
Nigger, I'll rebake the bread. Do you not know where you are? This is /ub/. When was the last time a thread slid? Fuck off with your "slow down". I say "Speed up"
You seem to think I care what your position is. My position remains unspoken.
>force the bump limit
Nigger, I'll rebake the bread. Do you not know where you are? This is /ub/. When was the last time a thread slid? Fuck off with your "slow down". I say "Speed up"
>>8444
I can't say I understand because this is not a movie. This is a study. Try to imagine this scenario to see why I am going through it this way.
Picture a chemistry class that you have elected to attend to study more about chemicals. Does the class remove the labels on the chemicals and let you mix anything with anything to just see what happens? Does the class list out chemicals and then end the class before explaining what the chemicals are and their proper use?
This is the main issue here. I don't understand what you are expecting this to be. If you want me to just paste Bible verses and provide no further commentary on them, then this isn't a study.
>>8447
>authoritarian
What about my explanations have been authoritative? I have told you the historical background of the writer and who he is writing to. If this is authoritative, then what is the alternative? You have not provided this feedback still, only that it is offensive.
Are you wanting this to be inverted? Do you want to be the one teaching me where I list the verses, and you provide me your input? We can, though I will still have to provide the exact same details I have been sharing to either agree or disagree with your assessments.
>that's why most people avoid Christiandom in the first place
Telling people that Solomon wrote to his kid is what turns people off? I really don't understand if this is the actual issue. Now, if the message is what you have trouble with, both the contents and the implication of these passages, that makes more sense. But until you tell me that is your problem, I don't have anything to work with other than me explaining the verses is somehow ruining something.
>Not here to be lectured at, thank you
This is a Bible study. Studies have a lecture in some form. I am trying to prevent it from being the type of lecture that demands you conform or change, only sharing the details of the passage to enhance understanding. However, if you never want to be confronted with something you don't want to hear and are pressured by the text to change or conform... that is the point of the Bible. By its very nature it convicts of wrongdoing and demands a change to connect with God or else you will remain in rebellion and not have that connection. That is the choice that the reader eventually has to make. If you are feeling pressured to do so, that is the text and not me presenting it. I have not made any demands for you to conform.
>>8449
There is an element of truth to that. People that don't have any connection to God will despise the life that God pushes people to conform to, which does cause enhanced rebellion at times. It is like how churches can promote the belief that membership and attendance is what brings salvation. People confuse the fruit with the tree. You attend church because you are saved, not saved because you attend church.
>>8451
Jesus' name in Greek is Ἰησοῦς, pronounced E-A-Soos, which over time has developed the J at the beginning and the oos turning to us, like the name Julius. This is due to regional dialects and language changing over time. This difference is reflected with Jesus in Spanish having the H sound instead, Hay-Soos.
To my knowledge, there is no Greek text that stated Jesus had a different legal name. There are several identifying names given to Him, like Son of God, Son of man, Lamb of God, etc. Perhaps you can share what you are referring to.
I can't say I understand because this is not a movie. This is a study. Try to imagine this scenario to see why I am going through it this way.
Picture a chemistry class that you have elected to attend to study more about chemicals. Does the class remove the labels on the chemicals and let you mix anything with anything to just see what happens? Does the class list out chemicals and then end the class before explaining what the chemicals are and their proper use?
This is the main issue here. I don't understand what you are expecting this to be. If you want me to just paste Bible verses and provide no further commentary on them, then this isn't a study.
>>8447
>authoritarian
What about my explanations have been authoritative? I have told you the historical background of the writer and who he is writing to. If this is authoritative, then what is the alternative? You have not provided this feedback still, only that it is offensive.
Are you wanting this to be inverted? Do you want to be the one teaching me where I list the verses, and you provide me your input? We can, though I will still have to provide the exact same details I have been sharing to either agree or disagree with your assessments.
>that's why most people avoid Christiandom in the first place
Telling people that Solomon wrote to his kid is what turns people off? I really don't understand if this is the actual issue. Now, if the message is what you have trouble with, both the contents and the implication of these passages, that makes more sense. But until you tell me that is your problem, I don't have anything to work with other than me explaining the verses is somehow ruining something.
>Not here to be lectured at, thank you
This is a Bible study. Studies have a lecture in some form. I am trying to prevent it from being the type of lecture that demands you conform or change, only sharing the details of the passage to enhance understanding. However, if you never want to be confronted with something you don't want to hear and are pressured by the text to change or conform... that is the point of the Bible. By its very nature it convicts of wrongdoing and demands a change to connect with God or else you will remain in rebellion and not have that connection. That is the choice that the reader eventually has to make. If you are feeling pressured to do so, that is the text and not me presenting it. I have not made any demands for you to conform.
>>8449
There is an element of truth to that. People that don't have any connection to God will despise the life that God pushes people to conform to, which does cause enhanced rebellion at times. It is like how churches can promote the belief that membership and attendance is what brings salvation. People confuse the fruit with the tree. You attend church because you are saved, not saved because you attend church.
>>8451
Jesus' name in Greek is Ἰησοῦς, pronounced E-A-Soos, which over time has developed the J at the beginning and the oos turning to us, like the name Julius. This is due to regional dialects and language changing over time. This difference is reflected with Jesus in Spanish having the H sound instead, Hay-Soos.
To my knowledge, there is no Greek text that stated Jesus had a different legal name. There are several identifying names given to Him, like Son of God, Son of man, Lamb of God, etc. Perhaps you can share what you are referring to.
>>8469
Pardon the argumentative tone, theres no malice or aggression to any of this.
I give the example of a movie because to my understanding the Bible is intended to be a series of stories meant to individually convey wisdom beyond purely a literal sense, but has to be experienced from all levels of 'status' shall we say - beginning as the fool and rising to the Heirophant (in this case). In case of Proverbs, they individually teach sound wisdom, but there's an underlying message about personal sovereignty. Without having finished Proverbs, my comments are being withheld, but likely this weekend.
>Jesus' name
At the risk of being contentious, I have it on good faith
<'E means 'e cannae fookin' ramember whayre 'e fookin' 'eard it, eet was fookin 2012
.. that his name was Yodheshuvauhe, but that's definitely not a biblically-sourced (including biblical archeology) position
Pardon the argumentative tone, theres no malice or aggression to any of this.
I give the example of a movie because to my understanding the Bible is intended to be a series of stories meant to individually convey wisdom beyond purely a literal sense, but has to be experienced from all levels of 'status' shall we say - beginning as the fool and rising to the Heirophant (in this case). In case of Proverbs, they individually teach sound wisdom, but there's an underlying message about personal sovereignty. Without having finished Proverbs, my comments are being withheld, but likely this weekend.
>Jesus' name
At the risk of being contentious, I have it on good faith
<'E means 'e cannae fookin' ramember whayre 'e fookin' 'eard it, eet was fookin 2012
.. that his name was Yodheshuvauhe, but that's definitely not a biblically-sourced (including biblical archeology) position
>>8470
A series of stories, yes. But we didn't start with the first story, so it is like walking into the movie part way and not wanting to know who the hero or villain is. You can ignore them, but you are going to lose parts that are needed to be able to build wisdom with, such as that this book is a series of things that would benefit you to listen to with to the degree that the person who is telling us is a master of wisdom both by gift and experience and the one that heard it didn't listen destroyed a whole kingdom. That is how you begin to build off of what is written. It isn't just nice sayings. It was life or death for the one that the writer wanted to reach but couldn't. Now we see that the intent of the text isn't to demean, but an attempt to preserve life and to cherish it.
>his name was Yodheshuvauhe
Never heard of it before. I guess I will do some exploring to see if there is any text that references this to cross-reference with the Bible and we can set up some lessons on that as well.
A series of stories, yes. But we didn't start with the first story, so it is like walking into the movie part way and not wanting to know who the hero or villain is. You can ignore them, but you are going to lose parts that are needed to be able to build wisdom with, such as that this book is a series of things that would benefit you to listen to with to the degree that the person who is telling us is a master of wisdom both by gift and experience and the one that heard it didn't listen destroyed a whole kingdom. That is how you begin to build off of what is written. It isn't just nice sayings. It was life or death for the one that the writer wanted to reach but couldn't. Now we see that the intent of the text isn't to demean, but an attempt to preserve life and to cherish it.
>his name was Yodheshuvauhe
Never heard of it before. I guess I will do some exploring to see if there is any text that references this to cross-reference with the Bible and we can set up some lessons on that as well.
>>8470
A quick search for the word Yodheshuvauhe alone yielded no results, but the search for "Yodheshuvauhe name" came up with a couple. The closest result was a name website that stated: 2 people from Malta and South Africa agree the name Yodhevavhe is of Hebrew origin and means "God's name".
The other results were different Hebrew names of God:
Yhvh: LORD (often rendered in all capital letters in English translations to distinguish it from other titles)
Original Word: יְהוָֹה
Part of Speech: Proper Name
Transliteration: Yhovah
Pronunciation: yah-VEH or yah-WEH
Phonetic Spelling: (yeh-ho-vaw')
Definition: LORD (often rendered in all capital letters in English translations to distinguish it from other titles)
Meaning: Jehovah
Word Origin: Derived from the Hebrew verb הָיָה (hayah), meaning "to be" or "to exist."
Yeshua (Hebrew: יֵשׁוּעַ, romanized: Yēšūaʿ) was a common alternative form of the name Yehoshua (יְהוֹשֻׁעַ, Yəhōšūaʿ, 'Joshua') in later books of the Hebrew Bible and among Jewish people of the Second Temple period. The name corresponds to the Greek spelling Iesous (Ἰησοῦς), from which, through the Latin IESVS/Iesus, comes the English spelling Jesus.
A quick search for the word Yodheshuvauhe alone yielded no results, but the search for "Yodheshuvauhe name" came up with a couple. The closest result was a name website that stated: 2 people from Malta and South Africa agree the name Yodhevavhe is of Hebrew origin and means "God's name".
The other results were different Hebrew names of God:
Yhvh: LORD (often rendered in all capital letters in English translations to distinguish it from other titles)
Original Word: יְהוָֹה
Part of Speech: Proper Name
Transliteration: Yhovah
Pronunciation: yah-VEH or yah-WEH
Phonetic Spelling: (yeh-ho-vaw')
Definition: LORD (often rendered in all capital letters in English translations to distinguish it from other titles)
Meaning: Jehovah
Word Origin: Derived from the Hebrew verb הָיָה (hayah), meaning "to be" or "to exist."
Yeshua (Hebrew: יֵשׁוּעַ, romanized: Yēšūaʿ) was a common alternative form of the name Yehoshua (יְהוֹשֻׁעַ, Yəhōšūaʿ, 'Joshua') in later books of the Hebrew Bible and among Jewish people of the Second Temple period. The name corresponds to the Greek spelling Iesous (Ἰησοῦς), from which, through the Latin IESVS/Iesus, comes the English spelling Jesus.
>>8472
Yodheshuvauhe is not the 'correct spelling' it's a phonetization, because He is spoken of in - iirc - sumerian tablets
Yodheshuvauhe is not the 'correct spelling' it's a phonetization, because He is spoken of in - iirc - sumerian tablets
>>8474
I couldn't find what you were referring to so far. I did look up Sumerian gods to see if it came up, but I can't find it so far. Unless I am overlooking it, I searched through the wiki of Sumerian gods and couldn't find it. I did find interesting ones that have gnostic parallels, possibly inspiring some of the gnostic texts, so that might be interesting to go over sometime.
I couldn't find what you were referring to so far. I did look up Sumerian gods to see if it came up, but I can't find it so far. Unless I am overlooking it, I searched through the wiki of Sumerian gods and couldn't find it. I did find interesting ones that have gnostic parallels, possibly inspiring some of the gnostic texts, so that might be interesting to go over sometime.
591 replies and 217 files omitted.
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