/ub/ - Überhengst

>>6881
>I think I will stop here for tonight with this lovely heresy. Only begotten is quite literally the only way to interpret the Bible.
Reminder that The Bible is composed of 2 parts. The Old Testament describing an evil jealous God to which the jews are fond of it; and a New Testament describing the Jesus' tribulations with them.
Kinda there is disconexion between both volumes.

>>6883
I hate this argument more than anything. If the God of the OT and NT aren't the same God, then we're talking about polytheism. If they are the same God, then why would he change character if he is omniscient and therefore knows all? "Drat, humanity didn't take closely enough to the teachings of the book I dictated to my people, how could I foresee this?" Or is it a character flaw, realizing a moral failing that this new teaching is supposed to rectify?

At best the two Gods argument is blasphemous lies against God himself, at worst it's true and it's a plot hole.

>>6884
>If the God of the OT and NT aren't the same God, then we're talking about polytheism
Yup. I think the confusion may be caused because of the same origins of the Bible. It is a collection of dissimilar texts arbitrarily put together by the Catholic Church who based its faith on it.
To be fair, it is about "Just Trust Us" and follow the doctrine.

https://youtu.be/-h7TvJL-QxE
Looks like more questions that need addressing. Let's use the Bible to solve this issue.

>>6883
Sorry for falling asleep before I saw this. Let's get right to it. Two parts does not mean two Gods. That is like saying the first two seasons of MLP hold two different Twilight Sparkles. They are the same character. How can we know this for certain?

First, there is no evil God throughout the Old Testament. This is the Gnostic belief. Where in the text is evil to be found in God? He is constantly punishing Jews for being villainous little shits. If you hold that this makes God evil, that might explain such a position, which is why the Jews no longer hold to the Bible for their rituals, having divorced themselves from someone that judges them.

Let's look to the content of the Old Testament to gather who God is and let's compare it to the New Testament. If there is a clear difference as you suggested without proof, then the proof should be there. You wouldn't suggest something without it being true, correct?

Psalm 5:4-6
For thou art nor a God that hath pleasure in wickedness: neither shall evil dwell with thee.
The foolish shall not stand in thy sight: thou hatest all workers of iniquity.
Thou shalt destroy them that speak leasing: the Lord will abhor the bloody and deceitful man.

Now let's see what Jesus says about hating evil people.
Mark 9:42
And whosoever shall offend one of these little ones that believe in me, it is better for him that a millstone were hanged about his neck, and he were cast into the sea.
Matthew 23:13
But woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! for ye shut up the kingdom of heaven against men: for neither go in yourselves, neither suffer ye them that are entering to go in.
Matthew 23:33
Ye serpents, ye generation of vipers, how can ye escape the damnation of hell?

Jonah 4:2-4
And he prayed unto the Lord and said, I pray thee, O Lord, was not this my saying, when I was yet in my country? Therefore I fled before unto Tarshish: for I knew that thou art a gracious God, and merciful, slow to anger, and of great kindness, and repentest thee of the evil.
Therefore now, O Lord, take, I beseech thee, my life from me: for it is better for me to die than to live.
Then said the Lord, Doest thou well to be angry?
Jonah 4:11
And should not I spare Nineveh, that great city, wherein are more than sixscore thousand persons that cannot discern between their right hand and their left hand; and also much cattle?
Nehemiah 9:13-21
Thou camest down also upon mount Sinai, and spakest with them from heaven, and gavest them right judgments, and true laws, good statutes and commandments:
And madest known unto them thy holy sabbath, and commandedst them precepts, statutes, and laws, by the hand of Moses thy servant:
And gavest them bread from heaven for their hunger, and broughtest forth water for them out of the rock for their thirst, and promisedst them that they should go in to possess the land which thou hadst sworn to give them.
But they and our fathers dealt proudly, and hardened their necks, and hearkened not to thy commandments,
And refused to obey, neither were mindful of thy wonders that thou didst among them; but hardened their necks, and in their rebellion appointed a captain to return to their bondage: but thou art a God ready to pardon, gracious and merciful, slow to anger, and of great kindness, and forsookest them not.
Yea, when they had made them a molten calf, and said, This is thy God that brought thee up out of Egypt, and had wrought great provocations;
Yet thou in thy manifold mercies forsookest them not in the wilderness: the pillar of the cloud departed not from them by day, to lead them in the way; neither the pillar of fire by night, to shew them light, and the way wherein they should go.
Thou gavest also thy good spirit to instruct them, and withheldest not thy manna from their mouth, and gavest them water for their thirst.
Yea, forty years didst thou sustain them in the wilderness, so that they lacked nothing; their clothes waxed not old, and their feet swelled not.

John 6:30-40
They said therefore unto him, What sign shewest thou then, that we may see, and believe thee? what dost thou work?
Our fathers did eat manna in the desert; as it is written, He gave them bread from heaven to eat.
Then Jesus said unto them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, Moses gave you not that bread from heaven; but my Father giveth you the true bread from heaven.
For the bread of God is he which cometh down from heaven, and giveth life unto the world.
Then said they unto him, Lord, evermore give us this bread.
And Jesus said unto them, I am the bread of life: he that cometh to me shall never hunger; and he that believeth on me shall never thirst.
But I said unto you, That ye also have seen me, and believe not.
All that the Father giveth me shall come to me; and him that cometh to me I will in no wise cast out.
For I came down from heaven, not to do mine own will, but the will of him that sent me.
And this is the Father's will which hath sent me, that of all which he hath given me I should lose nothing, but should raise it up again at the last day.
And this is the will of him that sent me, that every one which seeth the Son, and believeth on him, may have everlasting life: and I will raise him up at the last day.

These are the same God. There are no differences.

>>6885
>>6884
I've never considered the God of the old testament as a different God in the literal sense. I just see the new testament as a major change in how God rules and how he approaches to us.

>>6885
Dissimilar texts? I suppose you have proof of this? I fail to see this, seeing as every book is logically put together, does not contradict the narrative, has a consistent picture of God and His plan, holds to a consistent value system, condemns evil, and promotes good. Where is the disconnect? Where are the differences? Is it just because Catholics said it was right and therefore you don't like it? I hate Catholicism, but when they said the text is right, they were not lying because there is no evidence that has ever been put forth that has been able to deny the Bible, otherwise it would have been dismissed over the last thousand years.

I also don't agree with the government, but when they say that you should drive the speed limit for your safety and for other people to be safe, it is correct. The government being the backer of this fact does not preclude the logic behind safe travel speeds. It is a provable fact and the character of the government does not mean speed limits are not in essence the correct means to navigate the road for safety.

>>6887
It is a significant change because of the nature of Christ fulfilling everything God set in place. His death and resurrection and the Holy Spirit being a part of our lives means that the way we can approach God even in sin is radically altered, as Jesus becomes a direct mediator between God and man. There was a divide present between humanity and God before that could not be satisfied by living a good life or doing some ritual. God states multiple times that the sacrificial system did not do anything to please Himself, it was meant to show the cost of sin and the need for a solution, a price that He would pay on our behalf.

This is why the New Testament has that name. A testament is a covenant, a contract, a promise. God made a promise with Israel, the Old Testament, that Jesus would eventually come and do these things until then. Jesus arrives and makes a new promise, a New Testament, that He bares the cost of sin and we become new men through Him, able to approach God without sin ever being a factor again.

>>6876
>Why is it always a fucking Gnostic?
Schizos who insist their fanfiction is actually relevant to Christianity.

>>6889
Very true. The Gnostic expanded lore is very crazy. They have texts that say God raped Eve, the Roman gods are part of the lineage of God, and Judas was killed by Jesus because Jesus wanted to info dump all of this onto him and made him want to neck himself. Very strange stuff.

>>6890
It's interesting lore, but it's really simply not canon. May as well be a separate religion.

>>6891
It is separate, despite the insistence of some. Gnosticism is basically two steps removed from Luciferianism. With God and Jesus made to be enemies, Jesus is basically the Luciferian architype, bringing knowledge and rebellion instead of salvation and unity.

>>6892
I get it. I don't really hold any enmity towards them, but it's annoying when they pop up shoehorning their extraneous stuff into discussions of canon scripture. .

>>6886
First, there is no evil God throughout the Old Testament. This is the Gnostic belief. Where in the text is evil to be found in God? He is constantly punishing Jews for being villainous little shits. If you hold that this makes God evil, that might explain such a position, which is why the Jews no longer hold to the Bible for their rituals, having divorced themselves from someone that judges them.
Judges 19 paints an....interesting portrait of morality. Saving a stranger from being graped by giving his daughter and concubine to the mob as substitute; chopping the concubine up into 12 pieces to ship across the tribes; forming an army in Judges 20 and starting a war with the tribe of the guilty persons, which leads to about 40,000 Israelite deaths and wipes out all but the young boys of the tribe; and then stealing almost a thousand of two neighboring tribes' women by force to offer the remaining boys to marry them.

Who's being punished? Because this is misery on all fronts. Is it the man offering his concubine and daughter, being punished by the former's death? Is it the Benjaminites, being teamwiped before being given another chance? Is it the neighboring, uninvolved peoples, whose women were stolen and married off? Or is it the entire tribe of Israel with the 40,000 deaths???

>>6894
oops, forgot the > before the quote. My bad.

>>6894
Let's take a look at the passage to find out.

Judges 19:1-10
And it came to pass in those days, when there was no king in Israel, that there was a certain Levite sojourning on the side of mount Ephraim, who took to him a concubine out of Bethlehemjudah.
And his concubine played the whore against him, and went away from him unto her father's house to Bethlehemjudah, and was there four whole months.
And her husband arose, and went after her, to speak friendly unto her, and to bring her again, having his servant with him, and a couple of asses: and she brought him into her father's house: and when the father of the damsel saw him, he rejoiced to meet him.
And his father in law, the damsel's father, retained him; and he abode with him three days: so they did eat and drink, and lodged there.
And it came to pass on the fourth day, when they arose early in the morning, that he rose up to depart: and the damsel's father said unto his son in law, Comfort thine heart with a morsel of bread, and afterward go your way.
And they sat down, and did eat and drink both of them together: for the damsel's father had said unto the man, Be content, I pray thee, and tarry all night, and let thine heart be merry.
And when the man rose up to depart, his father in law urged him: therefore he lodged there again.
And he arose early in the morning on the fifth day to depart: and the damsel's father said, Comfort thine heart, I pray thee. And they tarried until afternoon, and they did eat both of them.
And when the man rose up to depart, he, and his concubine, and his servant, his father in law, the damsel's father, said unto him, Behold, now the day draweth toward evening, I pray you tarry all night: behold, the day groweth to an end, lodge here, that thine heart may be merry; and to morrow get you early on your way, that thou mayest go home.
But the man would not tarry that night, but he rose up and departed, and came over against Jebus, which is Jerusalem; and there were with him two asses saddled, his concubine also was with him.

First off, this revolves around a Levite. This is very important to note because they were a tribe specifically called to be priests. They could not do whatever they wanted. Think a nunnery today. They had a strict moral code. We find this guy having a side piece and, surprise surprise, she runs off to be a whore. What a shock. Someone you only took for sex ran off to find more sex?

We find him chasing after this lady and winds up staying at her house with the father for days on end. Don't you have a job to be doing? I guess this side piece is the most important thing on his mind.

Judges 19:11-22
And when they were by Jebus, the day was far spent; and the servant said unto his master, Come, I pray thee, and let us turn in into this city of the Jebusites, and lodge in it.
And his master said unto him, We will not turn aside hither into the city of a stranger, that is not of the children of Israel; we will pass over to Gibeah.
And he said unto his servant, Come, and let us draw near to one of these places to lodge all night, in Gibeah, or in Ramah.
And they passed on and went their way; and the sun went down upon them when they were by Gibeah, which belongeth to Benjamin.
And they turned aside thither, to go in and to lodge in Gibeah: and when he went in, he sat him down in a street of the city: for there was no man that took them into his house to lodging.
And, behold, there came an old man from his work out of the field at even, which was also of mount Ephraim; and he sojourned in Gibeah: but the men of the place were Benjamites.
And when he had lifted up his eyes, he saw a wayfaring man in the street of the city: and the old man said, Whither goest thou? and whence comest thou?
And he said unto him, We are passing from Bethlehemjudah toward the side of mount Ephraim; from thence am I: and I went to Bethlehemjudah, but I am now going to the house of the LORD; and there is no man that receiveth me to house.
Yet there is both straw and provender for our asses; and there is bread and wine also for me, and for thy handmaid, and for the young man which is with thy servants: there is no want of any thing.
And the old man said, Peace be with thee; howsoever let all thy wants lie upon me; only lodge not in the street.
So he brought him into his house, and gave provender unto the asses: and they washed their feet, and did eat and drink.
Now as they were making their hearts merry, behold, the men of the city, certain sons of Belial, beset the house round about, and beat at the door, and spake to the master of the house, the old man, saying, Bring forth the man that came into thine house, that we may know him.

So, we pick back up with the guy who has made a detour to try and get back home, being so delayed. He comes to rest in a place with no plan. Lodging isn't always available in the region of Benjamen, as Mary and Joseph will find out over a thousand years on. Given that this guy has servants to tell this to, he ought to have been smart enough for that, but I guess chasing women doesn't help in the IQ department.

He decides, fuck it, I will sleep in the street. A guy offers to take him off the street. Kind guy, but he doesn't know what this guy has been up to or the attention he brought to himself sleeping in the slums. The key phrasing here is "there is both straw and provender for our asses; and there is bread and wine also for me, and for thy handmaid, and for the young man which is with thy servants: there is no want of any thing". In other words, he looks fairly well to do and is sleeping in the slums.

>>6896
Well, unfortunately evil people exist in slums. He was noticed and followed to the kind guy's house. They are labeled as sons of Belial, aka the worthless ones, this is in the form of crazy people, murderers, and queers. We know this because they are asking "Bring forth the man that came into thine house, that we may know him", in other words they want to fuck the rich guy. They might also be doing this out of a desire to get back at richy for making them live in slums. Regardless of intent, they are intent on pure evil. Would be happening if this priest wasn't a fucking dumbass and immoral, which seems to be the point of this lesson. Let's continue.

Judges 19:23-30
And the man, the master of the house, went out unto them, and said unto them, Nay, my brethren, nay, I pray you, do not so wickedly; seeing that this man is come into mine house, do not this folly.
Behold, here is my daughter a maiden, and his concubine; them I will bring out now, and humble ye them, and do with them what seemeth good unto you: but unto this man do not so vile a thing.
But the men would not hearken to him: so the man took his concubine, and brought her forth unto them; and they knew her, and abused her all the night until the morning: and when the day began to spring, they let her go.
Then came the woman in the dawning of the day, and fell down at the door of the man's house where her lord was, till it was light.
And her lord rose up in the morning, and opened the doors of the house, and went out to go his way: and, behold, the woman his concubine was fallen down at the door of the house, and her hands were upon the threshold.
And he said unto her, Up, and let us be going. But none answered. Then the man took her up upon an ass, and the man rose up, and gat him unto his place.
And when he was come into his house, he took a knife, and laid hold on his concubine, and divided her, together with her bones, into twelve pieces, and sent her into all the coasts of Israel.
And it was so, that all that saw it said, There was no such deed done nor seen from the day that the children of Israel came up out of the land of Egypt unto this day: consider of it, take advice, and speak your minds.

You might wonder why they would cave into the demands. Well, remember that the guy that offered a place to stay was considered an old man, and it is doubtful the priest would be able to hold back a bunch of crazy rapists and they might just decide to burn the house down, so they caved. But instead of letting them be homos, they offered women. This is very odd by modern understanding, but they hated the gay so much back then that if there was no way out without everyone being raped or killed, they sacrificed the women to keep the gay away.

Definitely not the bravest types on display. But we are about to see the madness get worse. The children of Belial rape the host's daughter and the sidepiece that the priest had. When that is over after an entire night, the priest just shrugs it off and demands the woman come along. She doesn't respond. She is absolutely broken by abuse. So, naturally, the priest takes her away, kills her, and sends different parts of her all across the land... wait... so this fuck head that only thought about sex was actually a bad person this whole time and disposed of his sex toy without any feeling whatsoever? Can't be a moral to this story at all. This sort of things also never happens and can't be discussed about in the Bible to avoid and to learn from. Can't imagine it.

Judges 20:1-10
Then all the children of Israel went out, and the congregation was gathered together as one man, from Dan even to Beersheba, with the land of Gilead, unto the LORD in Mizpeh.
And the chief of all the people, even of all the tribes of Israel, presented themselves in the assembly of the people of God, four hundred thousand footmen that drew sword.
(Now the children of Benjamin heard that the children of Israel were gone up to Mizpeh.) Then said the children of Israel, Tell us, how was this wickedness?
And the Levite, the husband of the woman that was slain, answered and said, I came into Gibeah that belongeth to Benjamin, I and my concubine, to lodge.
And the men of Gibeah rose against me, and beset the house round about upon me by night, and thought to have slain me: and my concubine have they forced, that she is dead.
And I took my concubine, and cut her in pieces, and sent her throughout all the country of the inheritance of Israel: for they have committed lewdness and folly in Israel.
Behold, ye are all children of Israel; give here your advice and counsel.
And all the people arose as one man, saying, We will not any of us go to his tent, neither will we any of us turn into his house.
But now this shall be the thing which we will do to Gibeah; we will go up by lot against it;
And we will take ten men of an hundred throughout all the tribes of Israel, and an hundred of a thousand, and a thousand out of ten thousand, to fetch victual for the people, that they may do, when they come to Gibeah of Benjamin, according to all the folly that they have wrought in Israel.

And now the guy plays the victim. Now, the hard thing to have to wrap your head around is that even though this guy is a piece of actual shit, he has a point. What was done to him was wrong, even though he is a merciless killer himself and a terrible priest. He was nearly raped, innocent people got raped, and the city is not arresting or killing any of these people. It is time for action. It is only a shame that such a person is able to ride the waves of righteous fury to dodge responsibility.

>>6896
>>6897
Wow, I really didn't expect this much detail. This is actually quite enlightening, thanks man. I'm frankly ignorant to the many tribes of Israel and the groups involved, and to hear all of this laid out in the queen's English adds a lot of context. Now I'm actually curious enough to do some research into the depictions of Belial throughout the bible to know more about them.

>>6897
Judges 20:11-18
So all the men of Israel were gathered against the city, knit together as one man.
And the tribes of Israel sent men through all the tribe of Benjamin, saying, What wickedness is this that is done among you?
Now therefore deliver us the men, the children of Belial, which are in Gibeah, that we may put them to death, and put away evil from Israel. But the children of Benjamin would not hearken to the voice of their brethren the children of Israel:
But the children of Benjamin gathered themselves together out of the cities unto Gibeah, to go out to battle against the children of Israel.
And the children of Benjamin were numbered at that time out of the cities twenty and six thousand men that drew sword, beside the inhabitants of Gibeah, which were numbered seven hundred chosen men.
Among all this people there were seven hundred chosen men lefthanded; every one could sling stones at an hair breadth, and not miss.
And the men of Israel, beside Benjamin, were numbered four hundred thousand men that drew sword: all these were men of war.
And the children of Israel arose, and went up to the house of God, and asked counsel of God, and said, Which of us shall go up first to the battle against the children of Benjamin? And the LORD said, Judah shall go up first.

So, they go over to the city and demand justice. The city is all like: diversity is our strength, rapist rights!
So yeah, war was definitely on the table. They were aiding and protecting these absolute scumbags that rape women all night for fun. God says let them have it. I don't see the moral issue here.

Judges 20:19-25
And the children of Israel rose up in the morning, and encamped against Gibeah.
And the men of Israel went out to battle against Benjamin; and the men of Israel put themselves in array to fight against them at Gibeah.
And the children of Benjamin came forth out of Gibeah, and destroyed down to the ground of the Israelites that day twenty and two thousand men.
And the people the men of Israel encouraged themselves, and set their battle again in array in the place where they put themselves in array the first day.
(And the children of Israel went up and wept before the LORD until even, and asked counsel of the LORD, saying, Shall I go up again to battle against the children of Benjamin my brother? And the LORD said, Go up against him.)
And the children of Israel came near against the children of Benjamin the second day.
And Benjamin went forth against them out of Gibeah the second day, and destroyed down to the ground of the children of Israel again eighteen thousand men; all these drew the sword.
Then all the children of Israel, and all the people, went up, and came unto the house of God, and wept, and sat there before the LORD, and fasted that day until even, and offered burnt offerings and peace offerings before the LORD.
And the children of Israel enquired of the LORD, (for the ark of the covenant of God was there in those days,
And Phinehas, the son of Eleazar, the son of Aaron, stood before it in those days,) saying, Shall I yet again go out to battle against the children of Benjamin my brother, or shall I cease? And the LORD said, Go up; for to morrow I will deliver them into thine hand.
And Israel set liers in wait round about Gibeah.
And the children of Israel went up against the children of Benjamin on the third day, and put themselves in array against Gibeah, as at other times.
And the children of Benjamin went out against the people, and were drawn away from the city; and they began to smite of the people, and kill, as at other times, in the highways, of which one goeth up to the house of God, and the other to Gibeah in the field, about thirty men of Israel.
And the children of Benjamin said, They are smitten down before us, as at the first. But the children of Israel said, Let us flee, and draw them from the city unto the highways.
And all the men of Israel rose up out of their place, and put themselves in array at Baaltamar: and the liers in wait of Israel came forth out of their places, even out of the meadows of Gibeah.
And there came against Gibeah ten thousand chosen men out of all Israel, and the battle was sore: but they knew not that evil was near them.
And the LORD smote Benjamin before Israel: and the children of Israel destroyed of the Benjamites that day twenty and five thousand and an hundred men: all these drew the sword.

This is packed full of details. First, there are losses for Israel. The people that want to do good sometimes get killed? What kind of God allows death? Well, that is part of living in a world with sin, war, and decay. People die. There is a massive enemy force and they seem better equipped and skilled than this army that is fighting for justice. This is reality. God could have made everyone totally invincible if He wanted to, but first of all, who would believe a story where everyone lives and the bad guys all get wiped out instantly? Second, there is a cost to doing what is right, especially so delayed from when you should have intervened. The time for action was not when the murderer priest called for action. It was when there were queers forming in cities nearby. You don't just allow this evil and not pay the price when you ignore it.

So, yes, people died that should not have died. People were raped that should not have been raped. It is clear that this is a lesson in avoiding this in the future, learned the hard way by men thousands of years ago. It is also fairly early into the formation of Israel. They didn't have total control of the region, so you can't put the blame completely on them for not being completely on top of things, but they definitely could have been on top of the priest that is taking sidepieces. Could have stopped it then and there.

>>6898
Details really help explain the nature of what is occurring, which is why I really like the King James Version. You sometimes have to reread it a bunch to get the meaning because it is older and not as immediately apparent, but the details are very precise because it is not oversimplifying or dumbing it down. You get as much as they could pack in the translation without going off script. It is always worth a look.

>>6899
Judges 20:26-48
Then all the children of Israel, and all the people, went up, and came unto the house of God, and wept, and sat there before the LORD, and fasted that day until even, and offered burnt offerings and peace offerings before the LORD.
And the children of Israel enquired of the LORD, (for the ark of the covenant of God was there in those days,
And Phinehas, the son of Eleazar, the son of Aaron, stood before it in those days,) saying, Shall I yet again go out to battle against the children of Benjamin my brother, or shall I cease? And the LORD said, Go up; for to morrow I will deliver them into thine hand.
And Israel set liers in wait round about Gibeah.
And the children of Israel went up against the children of Benjamin on the third day, and put themselves in array against Gibeah, as at other times.
And the children of Benjamin went out against the people, and were drawn away from the city; and they began to smite of the people, and kill, as at other times, in the highways, of which one goeth up to the house of God, and the other to Gibeah in the field, about thirty men of Israel.
And the children of Benjamin said, They are smitten down before us, as at the first. But the children of Israel said, Let us flee, and draw them from the city unto the highways.
And all the men of Israel rose up out of their place, and put themselves in array at Baaltamar: and the liers in wait of Israel came forth out of their places, even out of the meadows of Gibeah.
And there came against Gibeah ten thousand chosen men out of all Israel, and the battle was sore: but they knew not that evil was near them.
And the LORD smote Benjamin before Israel: and the children of Israel destroyed of the Benjamites that day twenty and five thousand and an hundred men: all these drew the sword.
So the children of Benjamin saw that they were smitten: for the men of Israel gave place to the Benjamites, because they trusted unto the liers in wait which they had set beside Gibeah.
And the liers in wait hasted, and rushed upon Gibeah; and the liers in wait drew themselves along, and smote all the city with the edge of the sword.
Now there was an appointed sign between the men of Israel and the liers in wait, that they should make a great flame with smoke rise up out of the city.
And when the men of Israel retired in the battle, Benjamin began to smite and kill of the men of Israel about thirty persons: for they said, Surely they are smitten down before us, as in the first battle.
But when the flame began to arise up out of the city with a pillar of smoke, the Benjamites looked behind them, and, behold, the flame of the city ascended up to heaven.
And when the men of Israel turned again, the men of Benjamin were amazed: for they saw that evil was come upon them.
Therefore they turned their backs before the men of Israel unto the way of the wilderness; but the battle overtook them; and them which came out of the cities they destroyed in the midst of them.
Thus they inclosed the Benjamites round about, and chased them, and trode them down with ease over against Gibeah toward the sunrising.
And there fell of Benjamin eighteen thousand men; all these were men of valour.
And they turned and fled toward the wilderness unto the rock of Rimmon: and they gleaned of them in the highways five thousand men; and pursued hard after them unto Gidom, and slew two thousand men of them.
So that all which fell that day of Benjamin were twenty and five thousand men that drew the sword; all these were men of valour.
But six hundred men turned and fled to the wilderness unto the rock Rimmon, and abode in the rock Rimmon four months.
And the men of Israel turned again upon the children of Benjamin, and smote them with the edge of the sword, as well the men of every city, as the beast, and all that came to hand: also they set on fire all the cities that they came to.

So, the rest of the passage talks about the results of the war. IT covers a plan that Israel carried out that hide some guys so they would draw out the forces and then rush the city when everyone was outside in battle. With the city on fire and people escaping, they encircled the troops that were stunned at the strategy and chaos, and only 600 of their force were able to retreat.

Then Israel purged the cities. People will likely point to this out of everything in here as being immoral. Some of the people that were purged probably were not guilty, but they did side with the city and didn't get out of dodge during the battle, didn't aid the forces demanding justice, didn't revolt or demand the leadership yield. It seems the majority agreed. Perhaps the minority that opposed did leave and we were not told or the Israelite army was not aware of the departure. Regardless, purges were not uncommon to be certain, and removing people that either openly or secretly support evil acts tends to have better results long term than letting them just do it over again. Perhaps it is harsh, but I fail to see that it is evil in itself.

>>6901
Now here comes the part that is the actual problem with the situation, the aftermath.

Judges 21:1-25
Now the men of Israel had sworn in Mizpeh, saying, There shall not any of us give his daughter unto Benjamin to wife.
And the people came to the house of God, and abode there till even before God, and lifted up their voices, and wept sore;
And said, O LORD God of Israel, why is this come to pass in Israel, that there should be to day one tribe lacking in Israel?
And it came to pass on the morrow, that the people rose early, and built there an altar, and offered burnt offerings and peace offerings.
And the children of Israel said, Who is there among all the tribes of Israel that came not up with the congregation unto the LORD? For they had made a great oath concerning him that came not up to the LORD to Mizpeh, saying, He shall surely be put to death.
And the children of Israel repented them for Benjamin their brother, and said, There is one tribe cut off from Israel this day.
How shall we do for wives for them that remain, seeing we have sworn by the LORD that we will not give them of our daughters to wives?
And they said, What one is there of the tribes of Israel that came not up to Mizpeh to the LORD? And, behold, there came none to the camp from Jabeshgilead to the assembly.
For the people were numbered, and, behold, there were none of the inhabitants of Jabeshgilead there.
And the congregation sent thither twelve thousand men of the valiantest, and commanded them, saying, Go and smite the inhabitants of Jabeshgilead with the edge of the sword, with the women and the children.
And this is the thing that ye shall do, Ye shall utterly destroy every male, and every woman that hath lain by man.
And they found among the inhabitants of Jabeshgilead four hundred young virgins, that had known no man by lying with any male: and they brought them unto the camp to Shiloh, which is in the land of Canaan.
And the whole congregation sent some to speak to the children of Benjamin that were in the rock Rimmon, and to call peaceably unto them.
And Benjamin came again at that time; and they gave them wives which they had saved alive of the women of Jabeshgilead: and yet so they sufficed them not.
And the people repented them for Benjamin, because that the LORD had made a breach in the tribes of Israel.
Then the elders of the congregation said, How shall we do for wives for them that remain, seeing the women are destroyed out of Benjamin?
And they said, There must be an inheritance for them that be escaped of Benjamin, that a tribe be not destroyed out of Israel.
Howbeit we may not give them wives of our daughters: for the children of Israel have sworn, saying, Cursed be he that giveth a wife to Benjamin.
Then they said, Behold, there is a feast of the LORD in Shiloh yearly in a place which is on the north side of Bethel, on the east side of the highway that goeth up from Bethel to Shechem, and on the south of Lebonah.
Therefore they commanded the children of Benjamin, saying, Go and lie in wait in the vineyards;
And see, and, behold, if the daughters of Shiloh come out to dance in dances, then come ye out of the vineyards, and catch you every man his wife of the daughters of Shiloh, and go to the land of Benjamin.
And it shall be, when their fathers or their brethren come unto us to complain, that we will say unto them, Be favourable unto them for our sakes: because we reserved not to each man his wife in the war: for ye did not give unto them at this time, that ye should be guilty.
And the children of Benjamin did so, and took them wives, according to their number, of them that danced, whom they caught: and they went and returned unto their inheritance, and repaired the cities, and dwelt in them.
And the children of Israel departed thence at that time, every man to his tribe and to his family, and they went out from thence every man to his inheritance.
In those days there was no king in Israel: every man did that which was right in his own eyes.

So, the people of Israel do one thing correct here in their understanding that this is a major problem. One of the tribes of Israel is basically wiped out. There is a likelihood that the tribe won't recover without some action, which is a problem because God plans to use the tribe of Benjermin in the future. Instead of asking God about it though, they plan to wipe out another city that didn't help. To be fair, I would be pissed that thousands died in battle and these fuckers just said 'who cares about some bitch getting raped, not my problem and not my war'. I don't think wiping them out and then forcing marriages is the wisest move to rebuild, but that is what they went with. It is sort of their own fault as well for swearing to God that they will not give any wife to Benjermin from their own tribes. Kind of fucked yourself with that promise. I don't see in the text that God demanded that oath, so I think they just wanted to punish them further without realizing they can't go back on a promise they made otherwise they would be punished for lying to God. Dumbasses.

Well, they run into another problem. They bring back the spared virgins from the fuck you city with everyone else dead, and then this happens "and they gave them wives which they had saved alive of the women of Jabeshgilead: and yet so they sufficed them not". I am not completely sure what this means. Perhaps they aren't getting along because they just caused the deaths of all of their friends and family, making it not a great time in bed, maybe they were infertile, maybe they were just grade A bitches and annoyed everyone. Short of it was, they weren't working out. Fucking brilliant.

So, the hatch a brilliant plan, to kidnap women that are out dancing. Foolproof. And when people naturally take issue, they will basically say sorry, but it was the only way plus you owe us. I believe the ending to this chapter is a perfect summary.

In those days there was no king in Israel: every man did that which was right in his own eyes.

>>6902
There are many lessons to learn from all of this, like not letting psycho priests get away with sin or you might start a tribal war that makes you consider kidnapping women to rebuild, which makes you only slightly less warped than the rapists you set out to kill. A lot of mess can be solved with some oversight and standards. Plus, fuck queers.

I had originally planned to talk about Phinehas because that is a name that comes up later, but I believe I have misidentified him. This is Phinehas, son of Eleazar. The Phinehas that appears later in the Bible is Phinehas, son of Eli. That is a story for another time, but I definitely need to cover it. But it seems that Eli's Phinehas might have been given that name in remembrance of this one.

>>7086
>>7108
>>7109
I don't understand why you believe there is an exception to your spam here, especially since you keep posting things that simultaneously support and denounce the truthfulness of the Bible. Regardless, your selection to copy/paste this time does not reflect the conclusion to the article that you also posted a picture of, which creates two conflicting messages. If people only bother to read what you posted, they will conclude Jesus is a scam made by Jews to be liked more, despite them making themselves out to be evil throughout the New Testament.

Your picture of the conclusion does rectify this, but your lack of input once again undermines your conclusion. It is like having a headline that reads "We are at war!!!" and the actual content of the article says we fight against illiteracy.

The conclusion is correct. The Jews would publicly stone Paul for what he said, which would not be wise to do with your lead teacher in the new faith that is supposed to usurp the whole world. Paul making it up also doesn't make sense because Paul was a convert by the confession of different authors. He came on the scene later than the origin of the religion.

Furthermore, if it was their invention, not only was it so bad at setting them into power that it took two thousand years to finally get a foothold, they shot themselves in the foot in now they have to propagate the destruction of Christianity to rid themselves of those that know there is no Messiah still coming for the Jews to aid them ruling the world. Jesus gave the world over to the gentiles, which means that the Jews can't hold claim under Christianity, as the world isn't theirs to take. So, they used the worst religious structure possible to achieve their objectives and it was their 5D chess to be undermined for two thousand years and then destroy their secret Jew power cult to gain more power as proven by their moves to remove iconography, prayers, and religious teachings in school systems by actions from groups like the ADL when it is simultaneously the most effective infiltration system they have. This is why I can't take the position seriously. Christianity always has been a thorn in their side. It is just the IQ of people that leads to the results we see, as people can't be bothered to read.

>>7111 (trips checked)
>I don't understand why you believe there is an exception to your spam here
This.
He does this in every thread. He randomly posts a low-quality caption meme, or copy-pastes some greentext from some crappy internet tabloid he's read, and contributes nothing to the conversation, aside from the occasional unsupported hot take.
Then when you ask him to elaborate on what he's trying to communicate he gets all defensive and calls you a shill, or just shits up the thread with nonsense accusations or smug reaction images.
Every thread inevitably gets flooded with this crap, and it's obvious that it's all one guy because he has that telltale "this shit again" posting style.

>>7111
>you keep posting things that simultaneously support and denounce the truthfulness of the Bible
>Regardless, your selection to copy/paste this time does not reflect the conclusion to the article that you also posted a picture of, which creates two conflicting messages
He does this in every thread. He posts links and memes that contradict eachother with no coherent meaning.
Sometimes he sticks to the threads without poster IDs so that it's less obvious that he doesn't know what he's talking about, even though he's samefagging with mutually exclusive narratives.
>Your picture of the conclusion does rectify this, but your lack of input once again undermines your conclusion
There is no conclusion. He's just thoughtlessly reposting it with the same level of critical thinking as the average Facebook poster. I don't know if he even believes what he posts.

>>7111
>especially since you keep posting things that simultaneously support and denounce the truthfulness of the Bible.
>>7113
>He does this in every thread. He posts links and memes that contradict eachother with no coherent meaning.
Since you both are low IQ borderline retarded and expect direct programming without conflicting views instead of to making your mind yourselves........
This is an recurrent issue in this website, some anons only post to attack a shitposter instead of discussing new ideas or post new ones. The pathetic state of themselves.

>>7111
>you keep posting things that simultaneously support and denounce the truthfulness of the Bible.
>>7086 and >>7109 supports the Bible; >>7108 discusses right-wing neo-pagan ideas trying to rebut the Bible but concludes the arguments are fallacious and incomplete, them the Bible and Christianity keep being valid.
In conclusion, you jumped the gun just to attack my post without even comprehend >>7108.
Also make yourself a big favor and KYS.

>>7114
>making your mind yourselves
Fucking hell. You are so full of shit.
We're all completely capable of making up our own minds. What we're sick of is (You) shitting up the place with your spam, with which you often post with no personal input or attempt to perpetuate conversation.
>expect direct programming
We don't expect any programming, and we especially don't want your constant stream of Facebook-tier goyslops.
>instead of
>implying
This entire site is built on the priority of quality over quantity. There are regular posters here; they just don't post at the rate that your Facebook or Instagram feed does. People only bother to post about it because you've been progressively shitting up the board with your spam for the past 2-3 years.
And there we go again with the smug reaction posting and baseless accusations, coupled with the delusion of persecution when people respond to your crap with any measure of negativity.

>>7117
>You are so full of shit.
It goes both ways. If you don't like some posts then make your own, faggot.
Also you resent memes and reaction ponies. Do you know where you are?

>>7117
>This entire site is built on the priority of quality over quantity.
Did you even read >>7108? It is a top thought provoking article and you have no better idea than kvetching about it based on... "i don't like the poster style". Seriously?

>>7116
Because your summery of events imply the Bible being false.
>>A 2000-Year-Old Rabbinical Psyop: Did Jews Invent Christianity to Deceive Gentiles?
>>Anyone reading White Nationalist literature is bound to come across articles hostile to Christianity. The foremost claim appears to be that Christianity itself was invented by Jews (whether by Saint Paul or some unknown rabbinical cabal) for the purpose of deceiving gentiles. Christianity was devised by Jews, then, as a way of conditioning gentiles to be sympathetic to Jews and Jewish causes and take down the Roman Empire with its radically different ethics. It was a means of influencing them from the beginning to oppose Rome, its power, and its paganism.
>>By portraying Christianity’s greatest hero as a humble Jewish carpenter turned Messiah, along with his Jewish apostles and, particularly, by “rabbi” Paul as its foremost theologian who shaped what Christians were to believe, gentiles would unknowingly turn out to be great proponents of all things Jewish.
Implying that green intro is true.
Followes up with your post.
>>7109

>>7121
>Because your summery of events imply the Bible being false.
>Implying that green intro is true.
Exactly, and because I counted with that retarded reaction of judging without to even read it, I added a second pic with the article's conclusion as preemptive measure against the low quality anons populating this site.

>>7121
>>7109
>It's not that I don't care.
>I have insider information.
Memes aren't just
TOP TEXT
BOTTOM TEXT
They're not Faceburg nu-pol swill. I know you think bot infestested nu-/pol/ is the gold standard for memes but that's not the case.
>>7123
... you're a shit poster not a shitposter.
Why not just post the conclusion.

>>7123
>low quality anons populating this site
Said the nigger to the kettle.

>>7124
>>7126
WOW

>>7108
This is hardly even bible study. It's just vaguely related to Christianity.

>>7127
WOW!
>the low quality anons populating this site.
Golly gee wilikers better post some more TOP TEXT BOTTOM TEXT and Smuggies.
>>7125
>>7126
That's a little uncalled for. We haven't quite reached that comparison yet.
>>7127
Your getting push back because of posting habits.
Because of everything all the tiny straws are mounting up to break the camel's back.

>>7128
>>7129
You both have to apologize. Derailing this thread with your petty squabbles in not right.

>>7130
As do you. You've derailed the thread.
This isn't Christianity General. It's Bible Study.
>>3411
>Discuss and study the Bible

>>7130
You replied to every one of those posts with more shitposts, doubling the shitposts.
I apologize for nothing.
Also, pretty sure one of those posters is OP. You should apologize to him.

2 Corinthians 3:6 Who also hath made us able ministers of the new testament; not of the letter, but of the spirit: for the letter killeth, but the spirit giveth life.
(A selection from the Bible before the next section.)

We're going to be going through the Bible in spirit.
<When you feel The Holy Spirit moving as you read, letters jumping off the page, new and old connections. I'd like to say thanks, for He is trustworthy.
Each section a line(s) pulled out to consider as we read.
>For therein is the righteousness of God revealed from faith to faith: as it is written, The just shall live by faith.
Starting at Romans.
Romans 1
King James Version
>1 Paul, a servant of Jesus Christ, called to be an apostle, separated unto the gospel of God,
>2 (Which he had promised afore by his prophets in the holy scriptures,)
>3 Concerning his Son Jesus Christ our Lord, which was made of the seed of David according to the flesh;
>4 And declared to be the Son of God with power, according to the spirit of holiness, by the resurrection from the dead:
>5 By whom we have received grace and apostleship, for obedience to the faith among all nations, for his name:
>6 Among whom are ye also the called of Jesus Christ:
>7 To all that be in Rome, beloved of God, called to be saints: Grace to you and peace from God our Father, and the Lord Jesus Christ.
>8 First, I thank my God through Jesus Christ for you all, that your faith is spoken of throughout the whole world.
>9 For God is my witness, whom I serve with my spirit in the gospel of his Son, that without ceasing I make mention of you always in my prayers;
>10 Making request, if by any means now at length I might have a prosperous journey by the will of God to come unto you.
>11 For I long to see you, that I may impart unto you some spiritual gift, to the end ye may be established;
>12 That is, that I may be comforted together with you by the mutual faith both of you and me.
>13 Now I would not have you ignorant, brethren, that oftentimes I purposed to come unto you, (but was let hitherto,) that I might have some fruit among you also, even as among other Gentiles.
>14 I am debtor both to the Greeks, and to the Barbarians; both to the wise, and to the unwise.
>15 So, as much as in me is, I am ready to preach the gospel to you that are at Rome also.
>16 For I am not ashamed of the gospel of Christ: for it is the power of God unto salvation to every one that believeth; to the Jew first, and also to the Greek.
>17 For therein is the righteousness of God revealed from faith to faith: as it is written, The just shall live by faith.
>18 For the wrath of God is revealed from heaven against all ungodliness and unrighteousness of men, who hold the truth in unrighteousness;
>19 Because that which may be known of God is manifest in them; for God hath shewed it unto them.
>20 For the invisible things of him from the creation of the world are clearly seen, being understood by the things that are made, even his eternal power and Godhead; so that they are without excuse:
>21 Because that, when they knew God, they glorified him not as God, neither were thankful; but became vain in their imaginations, and their foolish heart was darkened.
>22 Professing themselves to be wise, they became fools,
>23 And changed the glory of the uncorruptible God into an image made like to corruptible man, and to birds, and fourfooted beasts, and creeping things.
>24 Wherefore God also gave them up to uncleanness through the lusts of their own hearts, to dishonour their own bodies between themselves:
>25 Who changed the truth of God into a lie, and worshipped and served the creature more than the Creator, who is blessed for ever. Amen.
>26 For this cause God gave them up unto vile affections: for even their women did change the natural use into that which is against nature:
>27 And likewise also the men, leaving the natural use of the woman, burned in their lust one toward another; men with men working that which is unseemly, and receiving in themselves that recompence of their error which was meet.
>28 And even as they did not like to retain God in their knowledge, God gave them over to a reprobate mind, to do those things which are not convenient;
>29 Being filled with all unrighteousness, fornication, wickedness, covetousness, maliciousness; full of envy, murder, debate, deceit, malignity; whisperers,
>30 Backbiters, haters of God, despiteful, proud, boasters, inventors of evil things, disobedient to parents,
>31 Without understanding, covenantbreakers, without natural affection, implacable, unmerciful:
>32 Who knowing the judgment of God, that they which commit such things are worthy of death, not only do the same, but have pleasure in them that do them.
It's impossible for fallen man to please God as God deserves in any other way besides faith in (and through) Jesus.
This first section looks to summarise Jesus, God and what happened in the Old Testament.
The beginning is a preface for the rest of the letter.
Who Paul is, who the letter is for.
The Good News written because he is not able to make it to Rome in person.
<23-32
This also shows how and why God gives what they desire and that too is punishment. They desired to be even further away from God.
To be as far away as possible and deserving of all that befalls on them.
Looks like it's all doom now as the impossibility of righting a broken relationship is out of their hands.
Which at the lowest point Paul shares the Good News in the next section if I'm correctly recalling.

>>7114
>>7116
You are literally too retarded to realize I am OP and previously answered you way back here
>>6868
Which does NOT support the truthfulness of the Bible. You probably don't even remember because you only copy/paste everything and don't read my posts as you look for more articles. You are asking the OP you are spamming with random images to kill himself. Take that in. You have your own specified spam thread allowed by the staff and you come here to post more, do a shit job copying/pasting, get called out, and I am the problem for hosting a BIBLE STUDY thread and not wanting an image that says "I have insider information" as that helps the BIBLE STUDY so much.

>>7123
I literally mentioned this in my response. I said that should you ignore your image and just read the actual content of your post, you advocated for the opposite of the image. This is a bad job on your part, because you offered nothing of substance to your post. Return to your containment if you aren't going to either study the Bible or debate Bible stuff. Your articles do nothing for this thread because you refuse to engage.
>>7124
>why not post the conclusion
Exactly my point.
>>7127
And apparently copy/pasting the correct portion of the article is too hard for you.
>>7130
>WAHHHH
>YOU HAVE TO APOLOGIZE
How about apologizing for not staying in your lane with your content? You promised to stay there with this shit. If you post an article and want answers, I want engagement. You have proven I have been typing into the void as you didn't read a single thing I have posted.

>>7139
Hi OP. Everything is fine, but the post count has to go up.

>>7141
>but the post count has to go up
Spamming to increase shitty numbers is worse than nothing.

>>7142
It would be unnecessary all that trouble if at least the anons would post some fillies.

>>7143
Or talked about THE BIBLE. It's a Bible study thread. Talk about the book.

>>7141
>>7143
Post count does not need to go up. If you are hard wired to make number bigger, do not use this thread unless you intend to actually study the Bible, ask questions because you are curious about the answer, or intend to debate Biblical doctrine. You can post your articles in your specialized threads in your own location. You bumped this thread to my utter disappointment because you had no intention to actually interact. I always perk up to this thread only to realize each and every time that no one actually gives a shit and you use this as more territory for yourself and yourself alone.