/ub/ - Überhengst

>>6666
>Now he is talking to the demon and says it is in shock at his wonderous revelation?
Checked those satan's numbers.

>>6667
I was raised as a Christian and would consider myself to be an apatheist, but pretending to be a pagan on the Internet is fun due to how much asshurt it can cause. It doesn't even seem to offend Christian anons that much. Ironically, it mostly seems to just upset reddit-type fags that'll crawl out of the woodwork to seethe and call you a larper. Only works if you attach it to White identitarianism, though.
It's like a weird form of meta trolling.

>>6669
Anyway, that is the end of that video. He doesn't go into any specifics for me to even determine the interaction was legitimate. Given how backwards his made up doctrine is, I am going to guess that there was no demon and he made the whole thing up like this doctrine.

Say... if a person who speaks in Tongues (in this use case a language only God understands) could one do so in their imagination (cognitive function)?

>>6677
To my knowledge, only possessed people speaks in tongues.

>>6678
The Holy Spirit speaks through a person.
Typically when a person is baptized in water, they then are baptized in the spirit (fire). (At any time He who is The Holy Spirit can/could dwell in anyone.)
When a person obeys the One who is Love He, The Holy Ghost, speaks through the mouth and the word and all.
By opening the mouth and letting sounds emerge and moving as if speaking.
There are multiple tongues (languages), one type is only known to God. What that means is that it didn't make sense to anyone except God.
You'll know them by their fruits.
Know that God never gives vipers (evil) when his children ask for something good.
Many times people ask for what they already have (such as to have The Holy Spirit), as that is already there is already given.

>>6678
Ensure knowing He who is The Comforter and The Helper, He that brings all words and teachings of God to mind. He teaches and reminds.
He like Jesus is of God.
The One who Is Good and Love and More never contradicts His own teaching, words and will.

The solution to Clown World is God. Jesus Christ! The Holy Spirit! Our Heavenly Father!
Nearly everywhere is infected with a Fragment of Clown World even some sources of His Waters. That's Wormwood, that's witchcraft. Loads of nonsense and crap and useless garbage.
Be warned and wary of mimicking evil even in mockery lest it infect and infest in you.
Be careful of those who's hands don't serve from a position of a kneeling servant. Be wary of those hands that would push you away and not raise you up.

>>6681
>second pic
That's a good explanation of the demoralization told by Yuri Bezmenov.

>>6677
Oh boy. This topic never seems to get old. This will take a hot minute to break down.

To begin, we don't all possess the same abilities in the Spirit.
1st Corinthians 12:7-12
But the manifestation of the Spirit is given to every man to profit withal.
For to one is given by the Spirit the word of wisdom; to another the word of knowledge by the same Spirit;
To another faith by the same Spirit; to another the gifts of healing by the same Spirit;
To another the working of miracles; to another prophecy; to another discerning of spirits; to another divers kinds of tongues; to another the interpretation of tongues:
But all these worketh that one and the selfsame Spirit, dividing to every man severally as he will.
For as the body is one, and hath many members, and all the members of that one body, being many, are one body: so also is Christ.

Right away we gain a lot of insight into the nature of what is occurring in spiritual gifts. First, tongues is not speaking in a way only God understands, as it says diverse tongues and the interpretation of them. This is for the translation of human speech across the world, the tongues of the people. There is a tongue mentioned in the Bible that is what angels can use, but this is not the entirety of the gift, nor is it given to all that have this gift as speaking tongues can as simple as someone that is inclined towards a singular other language on earth.

Next, we see that there are many gifts and not everyone is getting them, let alone all of them. The phrase "dividing to every man severally as he will" specifically calls to this aspect as it is God's will to divide who gets what and to what extent. God may not give you any listed spiritual gift, instead focusing on what Paul says is even greater than the gifts.

1st Corinthians 13:1-13
Though I speak with the tongues of men and of angels, and have not charity, I am become as sounding brass, or a tinkling cymbal.
And though I have the gift of prophecy, and understand all mysteries, and all knowledge; and though I have all faith, so that I could remove mountains, and have not charity, I am nothing.
And though I bestow all my goods to feed the poor, and though I give my body to be burned, and have not charity, it profiteth me nothing.
Charity suffereth long, and is kind; charity envieth not; charity vaunteth not itself, is not puffed up,
Doth not behave itself unseemly, seeketh not her own, is not easily provoked, thinketh no evil;
Rejoiceth not in iniquity, but rejoiceth in the truth;
Beareth all things, believeth all things, hopeth all things, endureth all things.
Charity never faileth: but whether there be prophecies, they shall fail; whether there be tongues, they shall cease; whether there be knowledge, it shall vanish away.
For we know in part, and we prophesy in part.
But when that which is perfect is come, then that which is in part shall be done away.
When I was a child, I spake as a child, I understood as a child, I thought as a child: but when I became a man, I put away childish things.
For now we see through a glass, darkly; but then face to face: now I know in part; but then shall I know even as also I am known.
And now abideth faith, hope, charity, these three; but the greatest of these is charity.

We can see here that despite having the best of the best gifts in the eyes of man, Paul states that each gift is absolutely worthless compared to what otherwise would be seen as common: faith, hope, and charity. Charity is stated as being the greatest, and it is easy to see why when you read the verse. This is not the modern charity of giving, as the phrasing "And though I bestow all my goods to feed the poor, and though I give my body to be burned, and have not charity, it profiteth me nothing." lets us know. This is not a monetary giving, but a love that is giving.

So, to come back around to your question. If a person who speaks in tongues, specifically a language of angels, could one do so in their imagination? We can learn what Paul has to say about this possibility.

1st Corinthians 14:1-6
Follow after charity, and desire spiritual gifts, but rather that ye may prophesy.
For he that speaketh in an unknown tongue speaketh not unto men, but unto God: for no man understandeth him; howbeit in the spirit he speaketh mysteries.
But he that prophesieth speaketh unto men to edification, and exhortation, and comfort.
He that speaketh in an unknown tongue edifieth himself; but he that prophesieth edifieth the church.
I would that ye all spake with tongues, but rather that ye prophesied: for greater is he that prophesieth than he that speaketh with tongues, except he interpret, that the church may receive edifying.
Now, brethren, if I come unto you speaking with tongues, what shall I profit you, except I shall speak to you either by revelation, or by knowledge, or by prophesying, or by doctrine?

This means that the gift of tongues is supposed to be used to aid the church, particularly in communication and interpretation. If this is not present, Paul states that it is a worthless gift and instead you should be doing something that edifies. From this, I would conclude that it is not an available gift to communicate to God in a special language. All languages are already understood by God who formed all of them at Babel and has controlled how they have changed and altered over the centuries. Moreover, we have Christ as our High Priest and the Holy Spirit within us that communicate directly to God the Father on our behalf. There is no lack of communication possible that would warrant a special language to communicate with God.

>>6678
Tongue is misunderstood through modern interpretations and understanding. 1st Corinthians chapters 12 through 14 offer a great look into the original meaning of tongues, the communications between people. Languages basically. Though the same passage gives the possibility of a tongue spoken by angels, as in the reply I made above, this is for communication. There is no need to communicate with angels in present day and they seem capable of communicating within the language with whoever they come across in the Bible, so I would conclude that there is no equivalent to the modern understanding of tongues, a babbling that is understood only by God and is an outflowing of piety and devotion.

So here's a question to ponder.
Why does the story of Jonah map to Revelation? (Yes, The Holy Ghost and God has put forth both as they are.)

>>6686
I'm not certain I understand the question. What do you mean by map? Do you mean does it relate to Revelation? It more refers to Christ as He said that He was like Jonah and would be sealed in the earth for three days just like he was sealed in the fish. What part of Revelation do you have in mind? Is it the general theme or a particular occurrence?

>>6688
Did you know that the rapture is in fact in the Bible?

1st Thessalonians 4:13-18
But I would not have you to be ignorant, brethren, concerning them which are asleep, that ye sorrow not, even as others which have no hope.
For if we believe that Jesus died and rose again, even so them also which sleep in Jesus will God bring with him.
For this we say unto you by the word of the Lord, that we which are alive and remain unto the coming of the Lord shall not prevent them which are asleep.
For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first:
Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord.
Wherefore comfort one another with these words.

The concept that rapture speaks about is from this passage. You might be wondering were the word rapture comes from. This is also directly in the Bible, from the Latin Vulgate translation.

1st Thessalonians 4:17
deinde nos qui vivimus qui relinquimur simul rapiemur cum illis in nubibus obviam Domino in aera et sic semper cum Domino erimus

The English-ification of the word rapiemur, which is directly translated into "shall be caught up together". Thus, we get rapture. We get other words along this, such as a raptor, which snatches things. It is a sudden taking up and typically carrying away to another destination. This matches the passage here.

We can further confirm this is the correct translation by matching the Greek manuscripts that have been found over the ages.

1st Thessalonians 4:17
ἔπειτα ἡμεῖς οἱ ζῶντες οἱ περιλειπόμενοι ἅμα σὺν αὐτοῖς ἁρπαγησόμεθα ἐν νεφέλαις εἰς ἀπάντησιν τοῦ κυρίου εἰς ἀέρα· καὶ οὕτως πάντοτε σὺν κυρίῳ ἐσόμεθα.

In this case ἁρπαγησόμεθα means to seize, specifically the future passive indicative nominative plural, meaning it is something that will happen to the group being talked about. More simply put, it reads "we will be seized" or in a common way of speaking, we are going to be taken away ἐν νεφέλαις, "in the clouds".

I don't really care if some faggot in history came up with some odd something or rather and he was a pagan. That is no excuse to deny a direct piece of the Bible directly saying something will in fact happen. It is the same as people saying Hitler thought something and therefore it is automatically wrong. Most everyone on this site got past that mental block. This article is heavily focused on the wrong subject. It directly states that he pushed that an imminent rapture was going to occur.

This is actually something that Paul spoke against in this very book. The people of Thessalonica were not doing anything for Christ because they believed the rapture was just a few days away from occurring. They were deteriorating as a people and as Christians because they were excusing their behavior on the end of the world. Paul said that you literally can't miss it because you will be raptured, so there is no point in waiting for it. You must work and be active to fight evil and promote good.

1st Thessalonians 4:10-12
And indeed ye do it toward all the brethren which are in all Macedonia: but we beseech you, brethren, that ye increase more and more;
And that ye study to be quiet, and to do your own business, and to work with your own hands, as we commanded you;
That ye may walk honestly toward them that are without, and that ye may have lack of nothing.

This indicates that they were getting into other people's business, telling them what to do, and refused to do work with their own hands. Paul was confident that the problem could be fixed and sent a letter... though he had to send a second letter which shows how difficult it is to get some people to do anything. So, the fact remains that the emphasis is on the wrong aspect. The work of the Jew is to keep Christians from the work using deception, though this is being recognized incorrectly. The deception is not in the rapture itself, but the timing of it and the response. It is not something that you wait to happen. It occurs without your input. Your task is to work knowing that this world has a finite expiration date and all of our tasks need to be done before the rapture does occur.

So being baptized in the name of Jesus (ie all Who God actually is) may be about not just being submerged by another into water (or death) but also in God's character.
God recognizes his children giving Himself The Holy Spirit.
God treats all His children with infinite love, goodness, mercy, forgiveness, power, and more.
Jesus came down (all the way and went back) to save us all and give gifts.
God's gift to be His own heir. His dear and precious child.
He will never give you up or let you down.

[YouTube] 99% CHRISTIANS HIDE THIS ALARMING VIDEO!!! | Dr. Gene Kim [Embed]

>Non-Jew method of how to be saved and have The Holy Ghost
Trust and believe in Jesus Christ for salvation.
That's it! Extremely simple and straight foward.
Why all the other stuff?
<Good stuff is found in The Living Word.
<Jesus gave us His Sword of Truth to see and divide what applies to who.
And
>J E W S
God choose to work through Jews and (((J E W S))). You and I know (((them))) and those that keep to themselves... sort of.

>>6796
Plenty of people have rewritten version of the bible, and an AI writing it would be no different.
The real question is who would actually follow a religion written by a machine

>>6799
Well, those people would follow stupid nonsense anyway, so it doesn't really matter.

>>6800
>so it doesn't really matter.
I disagree. Those imbeciles are dragging us all down and underestimate them may be fatal mistake. No kidding.

>>6801
What's the difference between an AI writing fake religion as opposed to some random kike at a typewriter doing the same exact thing like they've done for years? There's nothing new here, except the AI might be marginally better at writing.

>>6803
>What's the difference
To answer that is futile if your not familiar with The Bible content. Suffice to say for example that the book of Revelations, which describes the future, has been 100% on target about clownworld and even that clown Harari and his plans.

>>6803
>some random kike at a typewriter doing the same exact thing like they've done for years?
I understand your skepticism and share some of it. The Bible is not monolithic but a collection of assorted documents and tablets put together by the Catholic Church. Even it is known that some parts have not been added because their controversial content, such us cosmography; and parts that affirm the Christian doctrine of submissive behavior, such as The New Testament are highlighted.
That said, there are many passages that cannot be ignored or dismissed as kike fairy tales.

>>6804
>To answer that is futile
Why don't you try it out anyway. We're in the bible study thread.
>>6806
I think you missed my point. What I asked was, what can an AI do that a human couldn't do already?

>>6803
None. The AI is probably just an excuse to rewrite shit in the first place. The kike himself will shove in the poison.

>>6807
>What I asked was, what can an AI do that a human couldn't do already?
Not much if there are passages foretelling the future. A machine cannot do that.

>>6809
>>6808
So it's no bigger deal than normal kikes with typewriters making shit up, as they do all the time to this day.
The video feels like pointless alarmism based on the AI Boogeyman when humans could do this all along. He's a kike because he's a kike, the AI would only let him be a kike more lazily. Just another fake religion or subverted religion on the pile.

>>6810
I have my opinions on AI. But yeah, it's just a kike trying to rewrite stuff. Little to do with AI's at all.

Hey! My thread has shown up again. I wonder what interesting questions I could answer about the Bi-

>>6812
People treating it as "Christianity general". I contributed to that, and for that I apologize.

>Cult of the Crucified God; Dark Scriptures of Rome! ARCHAIX
>The sayings of Jesus are deeply profound...and they are ancient. Rome took them and has layers of old writings and newly invented writings added to their story. The end result was the gospel. The Demiurge's transmutation of pure spiritual gnosis to a carnalized epic of the Crucified God.
https://rumble.com/v2xs2xa-cult-of-the-crucified-god-dark-scriptures-of-rome-archaix.html
Mirror:
[YouTube] II. Cult of the Crucified God: Dark Scriptures of Rome [Embed]
2:23:07 long.

>>6813
So what, poners are having fun.

>>6818
>two and a half hours
This is going to take forever to get through
>no one mentioned the Gospels when it was illegal to be Christian and they were written thirty years after the event and slowly distributed by hand throughout the churches
And this doesn't fucking help thirty seconds in. He can't even fathom a reason you don't mention the writings of a new religion on the scene other than it was made from another source.
>an original Gospel
Galatians 1:9
As we said before, so say I now again, If any man preach any other gospel unto you than that ye have received, let him be accursed.

Answering all of this might be too tall an order if you wanted that anon. If you want to shorten it down and discuss pieces of it, that might be more beneficial. Regardless, I will go through the first few minutes and see what he said about this secret knowledge.

>>6818
>>6820
Hopefully this explains well enough why I don't believe in the kike on a stick and get sick of him being the focal point of every single political discussion

>>6818
>begins the text with "These are the hidden words that the living Jesus spoke."
This is already a red flag. The words of Jesus were not hidden. He spoke openly to people.

>Jesus says: The one who seeks should not cease seeking until he finds. And when he finds, he will be dismayed. And when he is dismayed, he will be astonished. And he will be king over the All.
Wut?

So, immediately, this reads as a Gnostic text to me. He said he was born in 96 AD, which is still going to make him around the 110's AD when he writes anything, which lines up with the intro saying the texts of the Gospels were introduced as acknowledged works then. This would be around the time people outside the religion would be also getting interested in subversion. Gnostics really liked Jesus as a concept to borrow, but didn't like how He played out in the Bible, so they would rewrite Him and say this is the actual way He is. You can tell because some of the language vaguely fits into the Bible, but quickly doesn't make sense.

The text mentions seek and don't stop seeking. This actually comes from Matthew 7:7
Ask, and it shall be given you; seek, and ye shall find; knock, and it shall be opened unto you:

But then it says you will be dismayed and then astonished, without saying why. Jesus often says why you have an emotional reaction. He then says you will be ruler. This isn't connected well enough to tell what it is trying to say, but if it is referring to salvation as the goal of the seeking, it is correct. It is worded so terribly it could be you will be shocked to find that your food is cold and then rule over your pantry given how vague the text is.

>Markeon was a Brition druid
Ok, why are we taking this seriously? A druid from Brition that has the secret truth about what Jesus actually said. Regardless, I will entertain it a bit longer.

>>6821
Not really. People have different opinions on things doesn't mean anything about validity. If that is the case, nothing is true at all. As for the focal point, it is annoying sure, but equally as annoying is the reaction a passing mention gets by people that could just roll their eyes and move on. The fact you don't means that I at least capture a bit of curiosity though. Always encouraging to see.

>>6818
>If those who lead you say to you: Look, the kingdom is in the sky, then the birds of the sky will precede you.
>repeats with sea and fish
>Rather, the kingdom is inside of you and outside of you
Wut?

Ok, so again, there are pieces of the Bible in here. The concept of the kingdom being inside of you is partially represented in the concept of the temple of the Holy Ghost being inside man.
II Corinthians 6:16
"And what agreement hath the temple of God with idols? for ye are the temple of the living God; as God hath said, I will dwell in them, and walk in them; and I will be their God, and they shall be my people."
I Corinthians 3:17
"If any man defile the temple of God, him shall God destroy; for the temple of God is holy, which temple ye are."
John 2:21
"But he spake of the temple of his body."

The phrasing of also without is also partially represented in the fact that Jesus will return after the antichrist rules and attempts to fight God. There will be a physical kingdom. There is no telling what the birds and fish mean. Maybe it is meant to mock the idea of looking to the sky or the sea for the kingdom?

>When you come to know yourselves, then you will be known, and you will realize that you are the children of the living Father.
>But if you do not come to know yourselves, then you exist in poverty, and you are poverty.
I find this especially interesting. It is a highly bastardized way of saying another phrase from the Bible. The children of the living Father I already referred to above, but it also continues in the famous John chapter 3 passage.
John 3:16-21
For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.
For God sent not his Son into the world to condemn the world; but that the world through him might be saved.
He that believeth on him is not condemned: but he that believeth not is condemned already, because he hath not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God.
And this is the condemnation, that light is come into the world, and men loved darkness rather than light, because their deeds were evil.
For every one that doeth evil hateth the light, neither cometh to the light, lest his deeds should be reproved.
But he that doeth truth cometh to the light, that his deeds may be made manifest, that they are wrought in God.

At first glance, they are very similar. If you believe, you are good. If you don't, you are bad. However, there is a crucial difference. The focus is all wrong. This hidden knowledge claims you know yourself. This is the inner light and finding your own way philosophy. If you don't know yourself, you are in poverty.

This conflicts with the focus the Bible gives, that God provides a gift through Christ. This is something that regardless of knowing or not happened and is now presented before you. If you refuse the gift, nothing happens because you are already condemned. Humanity has already done everything necessary to fall into sin and be condemned to hell without any input from external factors. It is the nature of our corrupt existence, which is not acknowledged in this passage at all.

This is why Jesus' dying is so vital to Christianity, because this gift of Him taking all the guilt humanity has means that we are free from the destination of hell at no input on our own. We have no fear of hell. That that must be done is accepting that this occurred. We have been paid for already. Jesus didn't condemn the world as it was already. He came to save it.

All of that missing by altering just a bit of the text. Perhaps your first reaction to that is to say that it is a meaningless change, but it radically alters the very foundation of why you would even bother to believe at all. If God does nothing except tell you to look inside yourself, then why worship Him? Instead, God gave everything in His Son. He could have been born a ruler and was instead born considered a bastard in total poverty. He repeatedly told people not to tell others about His miracles. He didn't resist a corrupt government arresting Him, He took a penalty that we deserve, and when He bought us, He did not make us His lessers, but declared it not robbery that we might be adopted and sat beside Christ on the throne as fellow heirs.

This is the power of the Gospel, and so far this is a hollow imitation. I am hoping it picks up.

>>6820
>Answering all of this might be too tall an order if you wanted that anon.
I did not. I'm just posted another angle on The Bible to fill the gaps.

>The person old in his days will not hesitate to ask a child seven days old about the place of life, and he will live.
>For many who are first will become last, and they will become a single one.

So, this screams a Gnostic interpretation to me. Let me break down why. First, we get something a bit poorly worded, but I think I can piece together the meaning. The elder will ask the younger is a little hard to pinpoint the reference, but it does sound like Ecclesiastes 4:13
Better is a poor and a wise child than an old and foolish king, who will no more be admonished.
However, the meat comes in the next part of many who are first will become last. This is a constant theme throughout the entire Bible. Those that are first become last. Saul was made king and would not obey God, eventually being replaced by a boy that took care of sheep while Saul would be wounded in battle and decided to kill himself on his own sword. Another is Christ who is God, Lord of all, come down and made to serve mankind, even washing the feet of the disciples. We can see this concept in verses like Matthew 23:11-12

But he that is greatest among you shall be your servant.
And whosoever shall exalt himself shall be abased; and he that shall humble himself shall be exalted.

This is God's love manifest in this cycle, however the missing part of this cycle is the other half, that whoever is least is made greatest. This is seen in the boy that cared for sheep being made king, David. We also see this in Christ again who being killed and taking on all sin, died and buried, rose again, and taking us, His creation, and raising us up even as unworthy of it as we are, and made fellow heirs. This is the love God has even for Himself in His different persons, as God the Father always lifts up the Son and says how pleased He is with Him and how He will rule and must be obeyed, but Christ response by saying He only does what God's will is and the Father must be obeyed. Both lift each other up and make themselves like a lesser to the other. We see examples of this in verses like Matthew 18:3-4
And said, Verily I say unto you, Except ye be converted, and become as little children, ye shall not enter into the kingdom of heaven.
Whosoever therefore shall humble himself as this little child, the same is greatest in the kingdom of heaven.

Where this text really falls apart, aside from leaving out half of the cycle, is "they will become a single one". This is impossible to interpret because it is intentionally vague. The reader is supposed to fill in whatever they want here and I really don't like that. As hard as it is to understand the Bible sometimes, there is always an answer provided. Even if people argue about it, debate interpretation, it is all provided in the text. A single one means nothing, It could be a single people, globalist style. One religion perhaps. One unified force? Could be. One mind? That is actually more Biblical because infighting is not supposed to be the norm, as the whole point of studying the Bible is to understand these questions we have and get definitive answers and stop always fighting over what we feel is best.

However, one in this case, has no answer you can gather. It also happens to tie into Gnostic tradition of all of humanity being a single spirit, simply trapped within individual bodies, but otherwise part of a spiritual collective. The Bible doesn't teach that, as every spirit is seen as a separate entity belonging to each individual, to the point is says every tribe and tongue is still presence and identifiable in heaven.
Revelation 7:9
After this I beheld, and, lo, a great multitude, which no man could number, of all nations, and kindreds, and people, and tongues, stood before the throne, and before the Lamb, clothed with white robes, and palms in their hands;

So, it concerns me that language of abstract unity without clarification is just there and not expanded on like Jesus tends to do with His lengthy metaphors, parables, and explanations after His stories.

>>6824
>another angle
Not the best pitch to someone like me, who believes there are definitive answers in the Bible and different interpretations tend towards wild ideas that conflict with the very nature of the faith, destroying the foundations of everything that is good. But, it is still interesting to engage with.

>>6825
>different interpretations tend towards wild ideas that conflict with the very nature of the faith
True, but the faith was put in place by humans which are notorious for their bad faith, therefore a closer look is due.
>But, it is still interesting to engage with
Glad you are willing to give it a shot.

>come to know what is in front of you, and that which is hidden from you will become clear to you.
>For there is nothing hidden that will not become manifest

I have to admit, the author of this text knows his Bible to make a copy that hits different aspects of the Bible. Unfortunately, like many imitations, it just posits simple saying that do touch on the Bible, but fails to have depth. What does this say but if you know the surface level, the deeper meaning becomes clear. We see text about this as I previously covered in Matthew 7:7. This does conflict a bit with the Bible though if you leave it as you can access anything that is hidden from plain sight if you just know what is right in front of you.
John 12:37-41
But though he had done so many miracles before them, yet they believed not on him:
That the saying of Esaias the prophet might be fulfilled, which he spake, Lord, who hath believed our report? and to whom hath the arm of the Lord been revealed?
Therefore they could not believe, because that Esaias said again,
He hath blinded their eyes, and hardened their heart; that they should not see with their eyes, nor understand with their heart, and be converted, and I should heal them.
These things said Esaias, when he saw his glory, and spake of him.

Even the simplest things are hidden from understanding by the power of Satan should someone worship him and the things of the world.

II Corinthians 4:5
Therefore seeing we have this ministry, as we have received mercy, we faint not;
But have renounced the hidden things of dishonesty, not walking in craftiness, nor handling the word of God deceitfully; but by manifestation of the truth commending ourselves to every man's conscience in the sight of God.
But if our gospel be hid, it is hid to them that are lost:
In whom the god of this world hath blinded the minds of them which believe not, lest the light of the glorious gospel of Christ, who is the image of God, should shine unto them.
For we preach not ourselves, but Christ Jesus the Lord; and ourselves your servants for Jesus' sake.

And this is the largest condemnation of this video. "But have renounced the hidden things of dishonesty, not walking in craftiness, nor handling the word of God deceitfully"

Hidden truths and secret gospels are completely antithetical to the Bible. We have the truth available to us as it describes God perfectly, describes Jesus perfectly, describes salvation perfectly, details Christ's ministry, death, and resurrection perfectly, and reveals who we are perfectly. If there was something hidden or kept from us this long, we have believed in vain, because the truth was not told to us. If we believed in vain, then what is the point of the secret knowledge? What does it provide?

I think I have answered what this provides, a cheap recreation of the original. I am too tired to continue for tonight, but I might pick this back up at least for the textual portion of this video. If he goes for two hours into rabbit holes of information that doesn't relate to the Bible, then I can only offer so much.

>>6827
Faith is put in place by God. It is true humans hold it, but if God is real, and I have complete faith that He is, He will ensure that it is available and unharmed. A closer look is always advisable to remove corruption and deception, but far too often it is not done towards those that hold positions within the faith, but the contents of the faith. This is backwards. The Bible is our foundation, which shows the intent of the heart behind the various attacks on us today. Those that attack the core of the Bible and attempt to replace it with what they say they found that was secret, most often are those that seek power and further corruption instead of seeking to eliminate it. Such are church leaders, cult starters, and subverters of whole houses. The Bible names who they most often are and has the answer to them.
Titus 1:9-11
Holding fast the faithful word as he hath been taught, that he may be able by sound doctrine both to exhort and to convince the gainsayers.
For there are many unruly and vain talkers and deceivers, specially they of the circumcision:
Whose mouths must be stopped, who subvert whole houses, teaching things which they ought not, for filthy lucre's sake.

>>6856
My pastor used to have a prop Roman armor set he'd use to talk about this.
It doesn't resonate with me. But that much is nothing new.

>>6857
>It doesn't resonate with me.
Of course not, because don't know how to tune The Force. When I'm able to do it, it works wonders, no matter the size or number of the hostiles.

>>6858
Okay.

>>6859
Sorry if it sounds no sense but it is true. No Jesus or Bible needed, just tune it and the obstacles move aside. However the Bible is right, the true power emanates from inside us.

>>6860
>However the Bible is right, the true power emanates from inside us.
A caveat, it emanates from inside yes, but to trigger it you must call a superior deity to back you up.

>>6860
>>6861
Okay. I wasn't arguing any point. You're probably right.

>>6858
>>6860
>>6861
OP here...the fuck are you talking about? Tune the force? Why is it that every post you make here the stranger you get?

>>6864
Seconded, wtf is this about?
I thought this was about the bible.

>>6865
Yep, that shit's off topic and belongs to /vx/.

Christian Identity: Handbook Against Heresies
-----
It compiles and explains from Scripture a collection of basic Christian concepts which is meant to be a quick witness to help address and combat basic heresies and misunderstandings. This may also serve as a good primer for those wanting an overview on general Christian Identity.

>>6868
>Adam is not the father of Cain
You just keep finding these things without thinking. But, like before, I will go through the contents and figure out if this is full of shit or not. It does seem to hit the key points from the table of contents alone, seeing as that is all you presented. It would be helpful if you actually formed an opinion on the literature and media you share. Why do you lack discernment?

>page six
"You do not know the true gospel; hear me out:"
Every
Fucking
Time
I don't know what corners of the internet you are stumbling around in, but you are hitting a batting average of absolute zero with good information at this rate. Let's see what the secret mystery truth is this time.

>>6870
>I don't know what corners of the internet you are stumbling around in
Right here:https://media.christogenea.org/PDFs/ryan/handbook-against-heresies-identity-christians

"Granting the “Faith of Abraham” to anyone would nullify the promises, the promises including that the nations would come from Abraham’s loins"
How does this nullify anything when Christ was his seed? Through Christ, all are adopted. This is reflected in Galatians 3:14
That the blessing of Abraham might come on the Gentiles through Jesus Christ, that we might receive the promise of the Spirit through faith.

This means that Jesus Christ was the seed that was spoken of that made many nations. He reaffirms this just two verses down
Galatians 3:16
Now to Abraham and his seed were the promises made. He saith not, And to seeds, as of many; but as of one, And to thy seed, which is Christ

In other words, there is no multiple claims to this promise through various other inheritors to the lineage of Abraham, which includes other Jews as well. Christ was the sole heir to this promise.
Galatians 3:26
For ye are all the children of God by faith in Christ Jesus.
The adoption that took place by salvation means that we are inheritors to the promises through the lineage of Christ. We don't need Abraham. His promise was to be the lineage to Christ. That is all. There is no bonus for claiming to be a Jew or a true Jew or any non-sense about lineage to claim something from God. God is the origin of the promises and through Him we have direct connection to those promises. We are His adopted and He grants all things to us directly.

>>6871
>go to site
>click about us
>asks not to post anything that breaks laws
So, it is a sort of free for all editorial section? Doesn't help confirm good or bad takes if they don't have a set doctrine outside racism good. I do like racism good messages, but when you try to combine it recklessly with the Bible, you are going to get absolutely destroyed messages.

>>6873
>I do like racism good messages, but when you try to combine it recklessly with the Bible, you are going to get absolutely destroyed messages.
Glad to have you around anon to classify the the good from the bad. You are better informed than me.

"[The promises] were not to a single person in Christ; the promise is for Abraham’s seed to become as the sands of the sea, and that the covenant would be established with his seed, which is a collective noun, implying multiple recipients of the promises (Isaac: and his descendants after him through Jacob)"

I just went over this in Galatians. A direct contradiction to the Bible. Smooth moves so far... Ryan... That's all the credit that your website has provided. Ryan, a member for 2 months and 4 weeks... so three months? I guess math on this website takes a bit to track.

Anyway, all we get is Ryan from somewhere made this. It isn't even credited as his within the document itself. Maybe he found it somewhere else and uploaded it there. A cycle of mystery and it doesn't spell good news for doctrine.

>>6874
Well, I do appreciate you saying that. You have the ability to be better than I am at catching these things if you put your mind to it. Especially when the Bible is involved. People love to twist anything and everything into the Bible. You just need to read a bit and don't be caught up in things that look agreeable alone. That is what the left gets caught it so much as well. The Bible says all are adopted and all can come to Christ, thus racism is banned! Except that Christ displayed racism as well, talking down to mixed races. He did still show kindness to them, but racism is not absolved just because on a higher level, God does not bar entry into heaven based on race. He still has blessings and curses based on race as denoted from the very first book of the Bible.

"There are non-Adamic, not-from-Noah nations which survived the flood, some of which are listed in Genesis 14, 15 and Deuteronomy 7, that we argue are of the fallen angels: the Tree of the Knowledge of Good and Evil, that was not planted by Yahweh God in the Garden of Eden, and the fruit of which we are not to eat (Proverbs 30:20: eating implies sexual relations)."

Damn it all. A Gnostic. Why is it always a fucking Gnostic?

Ok, deep lore time! So, there are these guys called the Gnostics, and they existed before Christianity. Summarizing the core belief for the majority of the cases, since they are also widely different from one another depending on personal beliefs and interpretations, but basically they hate the world and like spiritual stuff. The more spiritual, the more it is good. The more it connects to the world, the more inherently evil it must be.

So these guys encounter Jewish texts and start forming some ideas that will come into play in the future when they encounter Christians, which is when things really took off for them. The came on the scene with so fresh, totally legit writings that were super secret and revealed the lies that the Jews didn't want you to know!

There are many of these books like the Gospel of Mary, the Gospel of Judas, but the one we are interested in right now is the Apocalypse of Adam. This book chronicles the misadventures of Adam as he reveals how he truly felt about God and the world.

Why do I bring this up? Well, we got ourselves a direct quote from this book.
Then God will rest from his wrath. And he will cast his power upon the waters, and he will give power to his sons and their wives by means of the ark along with the animals, whichever he pleased, and the birds of heaven, which he called and released upon the earth. And God will say to Noah - whom the generations will call 'Deucalion' - "Behold, I have protected <you> in the ark, along with your wife and your sons and their wives and their animals and the birds of heaven, which you called and released upon the earth. Therefore I will give the earth to you - you and your sons. In kingly fashion you will rule over it - you and your sons. And no seed will come from you of the men who will not stand in my presence in another glory."

Then they will become as the cloud of the great light. Those men will come who have been cast forth from the knowledge of the great aeons and the angels. They will stand before Noah and the aeons. And God will say to Noah, "Why have you departed from what I told you? You have created another generation so that you might scorn my power." Then Noah will say, "I shall testify before your might that the generation of these men did not come from me nor from my sons. [...] knowledge.

So, their book claims that Noah and his family were not the sole survivors. This is not found anywhere in the Bible. Ryan is out here quoting Gnostic books and passing it off as correct.

Now, why would Ryan do this? Well, Gnostics believe in the hard separation between God and Jesus. They don't believe they are one yet three, different and the same at all. They believe that God is evil and Jesus came to overthrow Him. Why is that? Well, it goes back to the simplified core of their belief system. The world is evil. Therefore, the one that made the world must be evil. God must be evil and Jesus, who is good, must not be from God, of God, and is God. It is an incompatibility in their religion, despite Jesus saying
John 8:58
Jesus said unto them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, Before Abraham was, I am.

God is known as I am, or I am that I am. Jesus without any room for misinterpretation said that He existed before Abraham and is God, the same that revealed Himself as I am to the people.

But, that can't work in Gnosticism. So, they plow ahead regardless. They ultimately will arrive at the conclusion that Jesus is Lucifer, Satan is a general title, and Jesus is Satan towards God. If you don't want to take my word for it, look through the alt history stuff thread where that one anon posted Armored Skeptic saying the same thing. It is inverse Christianity in essence.

>>6877
>Ryan
Perhaps Ryan is trying to stick to Positive Christianity.

He goes on to redefine what all means. He says that the word for all comes from kosmos in Greek which means world, and he then pulls from Caeser decreeing that all should be taxed, as in the whole world. And obviously the whole world was not reached, as South America did not get taxed. Therefore, God doesn't love and save everyone, just the people Caeser taxed... Here is his text to confirm.

And it came to pass in those days, that there went out a decree from Cæsar Augustus, that all the world should be taxed.
Luke 2:1 KJV “all the world”, in the sense of the modern colloquial understanding of the word “world”, might mean the “whole planet”. But Cæsar did not tax the whole planet: he did not tax China, India, South America, nor the Congo; he taxed the whole
Roman World: this word here is translated from οἰκουμένη. Strabo defines “οἰκουμένη” in his “Geography”, and it includes only White nations, not China, the Congo, etc.
Strabo: (Geography, 1.1.16): on the οἰκουμένη: “Thus it is clear that geography… is composed of continents and seas, both those within and outside the entire inhabited
world” Land exists outside this “world”… (Geography, 2.5.3-9): the inhabited world ranges from Rhodes to 16,600 stadia south, then from Britain 4000 stadia north. The length being 70,000 stadia west to east, from Iberia to the capes of India; This excludes China and other places, as is evident in maps provided by translators, including Duane W. Roller. “People” outside these realms were referred to as “complete savages”
In the context of the Greco-Roman world, and therefore the scriptures, the word “world” (of the popular John 3:16, for example: κόσμος (kosmos, G2889), meaning order, or possibly “society”) must be understood in this context. The CNT has “Society”.
who wants all people to be saved and to come to a knowledge of the truth. For there is one God and one mediator between God and mankind, the man Christ Jesus, who gave himself as a ransom for all people. This has now been witnessed to at the proper time.
1 Timothy 2:4-6 NIV if Christ gave himself as a ransom for all people, and all fall short of the glory of God, and all are sent down as sinners (Romans 5:18-19), where is the line drawn? It is not just belief: Matthew 7:21-23

As you can tell, he is getting a bit schizo here, but let me bring something up and not just dismiss him. He is saying the word for all from the world here must definitely be the only meaning of the word throughout the whole Bible because the ruler of Rome said the world was only what he ruled. Cool. I hope you didn't set up a rule earlier that would negate this finding...

Not all concept-words hereinafter apply every time the word is used in the Bible Ex: Not every use of the word “sheep” refers to Israel; it could be real sheep! Same as “Zion”, “Stars”; the original Hebrew/Greek matter, too!
I am not cherry-picking verses for an agenda; If you want to prove something, study the Greek/Hebrew/History and prove it for yourself; I believe there are poor translations of the Greek/Hebrew that exist, including the translations I am providing, so I do try to find verses that are better translations of the Greek/Hebrew (Study to show yourself approved!: 2 Timothy 2:15

Oh. The exact thing, word for word, that symbolic language exists and you can't apply every word everywhere for a simple solution especially if it doesn't make any fucking sense. Yeah. What happened to that?

He goes on to say
"Grace (In the Wilderness) is for Israel; For Israel is the Grace of
Yahweh God (Only Israel is prophesied to have received Grace
from Yahweh God, not “gentiles” or any other nation):"
You know, the creepy thing about Christian Identity is that it just becomes Jewish Identity. Everyone devolves to arguing who is the truest Jew. It makes no sense. Paul stated without any confusion that
Galatians 4:4-9
But when the fulness of the time was come, God sent forth his Son, made of a woman, made under the law,
To redeem them that were under the law, that we might receive the adoption of sons.
And because ye are sons, God hath sent forth the Spirit of his Son into your hearts, crying, Abba, Father.
Wherefore thou art no more a servant, but a son; and if a son, then an heir of God through Christ.
Howbeit then, when ye knew not God, ye did service unto them which by nature are no gods.
But now, after that ye have known God, or rather are known of God, how turn ye again to the weak and beggarly elements, whereunto ye desire again to be in bondage?

In other words, why do you want to be like a Jew again? God freed us from everything the world can do to us and even ourselves in our sin. Yet, people persist in wanting to keep all of the law and ignore Christ, believing that God can't possibly save unless you are born right. Well, if that were the case, then Jesus didn't have to die at all. He could have taken the throne and been done with it. Instead, his plan directly involved those that were not of the specific lineage.

We can find this in the parables Christ taught. It is most apparent to me in the parable of the vineyard with the evil servants.
Luke 20:9-19
Then began he to speak to the people this parable; A certain man planted a vineyard, and let it forth to husbandmen, and went into a far country for a long time.
And at the season he sent a servant to the husbandmen, that they should give him of the fruit of the vineyard: but the husbandmen beat him, and sent him away empty.
And again he sent another servant: and they beat him also, and entreated him shamefully, and sent him away empty.
And again he sent a third: and they wounded him also, and cast him out.
Then said the lord of the vineyard, What shall I do? I will send my beloved son: it may be they will reverence him when they see him.
But when the husbandmen saw him, they reasoned among themselves, saying, This is the heir: come, let us kill him, that the inheritance may be ours.
So they cast him out of the vineyard, and killed him. What therefore shall the lord of the vineyard do unto them?
He shall come and destroy these husbandmen, and shall give the vineyard to others. And when they heard it, they said, God forbid.
And he beheld them, and said, What is this then that is written, The stone which the builders rejected, the same is become the head of the corner?
Whosoever shall fall upon that stone shall be broken; but on whomsoever it shall fall, it will grind him to powder.
And the chief priests and the scribes the same hour sought to lay hands on him; and they feared the people: for they perceived that he had spoken this parable against them.

The priests were right to assume it was against them, but in acting as they did, they only guaranteed it would be as such. The story says that the vineyard needed someone to look over the operation being done by the husbandmen. Husbandmen take care of the vines and make sure it is ready for when the owner gets back so it can be harvested and enjoyed. First, the owner, which is God, sends some servants to oversee the operation and make sure that they aren't slacking off. They beat the shit out of each servant.

This matches what the Jews would do to prophets from God, killing them, beating them, disregarding them, imprisoning them, mocking them, really being a prophet to the Jews is basically asking for endless torture until they end you painfully. God sees this and decides that His Son being sent to oversee would have a better result. Instead, the husbandmen, Jews in this case, kill the son in hopes that without an heir, God will be forced to give them the inheritance of the field and everything God owns. God then destroys the husbandmen and gives the vineyard to others.

That is us. The Jews suffered their destruction by Rome for purpose, retribution for how hideously they treated Christ. It was passed to the Gentiles to watch over the vineyard, whites in particular. However, this also forms a severe warning. We will end up the same if we fail to worship God and abandon His work on earth. Whites have been the most dedicated to preserving and trying to understand all there is about the Bible, which is why there has been so much blessing. It is why I believe we will be afforded an opportunity to curb the advances of evil should we turn back to God. We don't need to claim Jewishness to make that happen. We just need to preserve the truth and not back down every time people desire it destroyed. We need to stop Ryans from fucking it up with Gnosticism and schizo readings.

"Adam, being a son of God, means Christ is not the “Only Begotten” son, but one of many of the race of Adam, and his legitimate children after him: only legitimate children could possibly be considered brethren to one another"

I think I will stop here for tonight with this lovely heresy. Only begotten is quite literally the only way to interpret the Bible. To deny it is insanity. No man is born from God, even Adam. He was formed out of clay and life was breathed into him. Jesus was born of the Holy Spirit touching Mary, simply touching, and Jesus was formed in the womb. This is why Christ is the only begotten, quite literally the only born Son of God. Not to mention how Christ existed before the entirety of existence was ever made and Jesus also made that clear, but sure, go with the most heretical version of events you possibly can Ryan.

See, when you convince yourself of something so much, you become blinded to just reading what the Bible says and knowing you fucked up. We are made into the sons of God through adoption, not birth right. This is how come Jesus was sent to die, to unite man with God, a relationship broken and God restored, without our input, without our work, without our understanding.

God the Father is a perfect summary of what God is like. A good Father to have that saw you fuck up, run away from Him, and He goes and fixes it, comes right over to us, and says that it is done. There is no more guilt. There is nothing to pay. God paid it all. Everything that could be held against us has been thrown away, into an ocean of forgetfulness according to God, unable to be recovered, lost for all time.

Why would any of that be needed if all he cares about is a bloodline? Why would he be the Father that sent His Son to die in our place? Our place would already be right beside Him. We don't deserve to be, yet God thought it not robbery to be made equal with us, first by being born on earth considered a bastard child, then by lifting us up to be adopted heirs. We are blessed beyond understanding, which is the only thing Ryan seems to get. The angels can't understand this work. They can certain recite it according to the Bible, as you ask a spirit what Christ has done and if the answer does not align with the Bible, it is evil. But the understanding is beyond any creation of God to understand. It is God's plan since the beginning. Only He gets it because for infinity He designed it and made it come to pass now and for infinity we will come to know only the surface of the love God has and the power of the work He did for us.

>>6881
>I think I will stop here for tonight with this lovely heresy. Only begotten is quite literally the only way to interpret the Bible.
Reminder that The Bible is composed of 2 parts. The Old Testament describing an evil jealous God to which the jews are fond of it; and a New Testament describing the Jesus' tribulations with them.
Kinda there is disconexion between both volumes.

>>6883
I hate this argument more than anything. If the God of the OT and NT aren't the same God, then we're talking about polytheism. If they are the same God, then why would he change character if he is omniscient and therefore knows all? "Drat, humanity didn't take closely enough to the teachings of the book I dictated to my people, how could I foresee this?" Or is it a character flaw, realizing a moral failing that this new teaching is supposed to rectify?

At best the two Gods argument is blasphemous lies against God himself, at worst it's true and it's a plot hole.

>>6884
>If the God of the OT and NT aren't the same God, then we're talking about polytheism
Yup. I think the confusion may be caused because of the same origins of the Bible. It is a collection of dissimilar texts arbitrarily put together by the Catholic Church who based its faith on it.
To be fair, it is about "Just Trust Us" and follow the doctrine.

[YouTube] Here I Go Again (1987 Version) (2017 Remaster) [Embed]
Looks like more questions that need addressing. Let's use the Bible to solve this issue.

>>6883
Sorry for falling asleep before I saw this. Let's get right to it. Two parts does not mean two Gods. That is like saying the first two seasons of MLP hold two different Twilight Sparkles. They are the same character. How can we know this for certain?

First, there is no evil God throughout the Old Testament. This is the Gnostic belief. Where in the text is evil to be found in God? He is constantly punishing Jews for being villainous little shits. If you hold that this makes God evil, that might explain such a position, which is why the Jews no longer hold to the Bible for their rituals, having divorced themselves from someone that judges them.

Let's look to the content of the Old Testament to gather who God is and let's compare it to the New Testament. If there is a clear difference as you suggested without proof, then the proof should be there. You wouldn't suggest something without it being true, correct?

Psalm 5:4-6
For thou art nor a God that hath pleasure in wickedness: neither shall evil dwell with thee.
The foolish shall not stand in thy sight: thou hatest all workers of iniquity.
Thou shalt destroy them that speak leasing: the Lord will abhor the bloody and deceitful man.

Now let's see what Jesus says about hating evil people.
Mark 9:42
And whosoever shall offend one of these little ones that believe in me, it is better for him that a millstone were hanged about his neck, and he were cast into the sea.
Matthew 23:13
But woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! for ye shut up the kingdom of heaven against men: for neither go in yourselves, neither suffer ye them that are entering to go in.
Matthew 23:33
Ye serpents, ye generation of vipers, how can ye escape the damnation of hell?

Jonah 4:2-4
And he prayed unto the Lord and said, I pray thee, O Lord, was not this my saying, when I was yet in my country? Therefore I fled before unto Tarshish: for I knew that thou art a gracious God, and merciful, slow to anger, and of great kindness, and repentest thee of the evil.
Therefore now, O Lord, take, I beseech thee, my life from me: for it is better for me to die than to live.
Then said the Lord, Doest thou well to be angry?
Jonah 4:11
And should not I spare Nineveh, that great city, wherein are more than sixscore thousand persons that cannot discern between their right hand and their left hand; and also much cattle?
Nehemiah 9:13-21
Thou camest down also upon mount Sinai, and spakest with them from heaven, and gavest them right judgments, and true laws, good statutes and commandments:
And madest known unto them thy holy sabbath, and commandedst them precepts, statutes, and laws, by the hand of Moses thy servant:
And gavest them bread from heaven for their hunger, and broughtest forth water for them out of the rock for their thirst, and promisedst them that they should go in to possess the land which thou hadst sworn to give them.
But they and our fathers dealt proudly, and hardened their necks, and hearkened not to thy commandments,
And refused to obey, neither were mindful of thy wonders that thou didst among them; but hardened their necks, and in their rebellion appointed a captain to return to their bondage: but thou art a God ready to pardon, gracious and merciful, slow to anger, and of great kindness, and forsookest them not.
Yea, when they had made them a molten calf, and said, This is thy God that brought thee up out of Egypt, and had wrought great provocations;
Yet thou in thy manifold mercies forsookest them not in the wilderness: the pillar of the cloud departed not from them by day, to lead them in the way; neither the pillar of fire by night, to shew them light, and the way wherein they should go.
Thou gavest also thy good spirit to instruct them, and withheldest not thy manna from their mouth, and gavest them water for their thirst.
Yea, forty years didst thou sustain them in the wilderness, so that they lacked nothing; their clothes waxed not old, and their feet swelled not.

John 6:30-40
They said therefore unto him, What sign shewest thou then, that we may see, and believe thee? what dost thou work?
Our fathers did eat manna in the desert; as it is written, He gave them bread from heaven to eat.
Then Jesus said unto them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, Moses gave you not that bread from heaven; but my Father giveth you the true bread from heaven.
For the bread of God is he which cometh down from heaven, and giveth life unto the world.
Then said they unto him, Lord, evermore give us this bread.
And Jesus said unto them, I am the bread of life: he that cometh to me shall never hunger; and he that believeth on me shall never thirst.
But I said unto you, That ye also have seen me, and believe not.
All that the Father giveth me shall come to me; and him that cometh to me I will in no wise cast out.
For I came down from heaven, not to do mine own will, but the will of him that sent me.
And this is the Father's will which hath sent me, that of all which he hath given me I should lose nothing, but should raise it up again at the last day.
And this is the will of him that sent me, that every one which seeth the Son, and believeth on him, may have everlasting life: and I will raise him up at the last day.

These are the same God. There are no differences.

>>6885
>>6884
I've never considered the God of the old testament as a different God in the literal sense. I just see the new testament as a major change in how God rules and how he approaches to us.

>>6885
Dissimilar texts? I suppose you have proof of this? I fail to see this, seeing as every book is logically put together, does not contradict the narrative, has a consistent picture of God and His plan, holds to a consistent value system, condemns evil, and promotes good. Where is the disconnect? Where are the differences? Is it just because Catholics said it was right and therefore you don't like it? I hate Catholicism, but when they said the text is right, they were not lying because there is no evidence that has ever been put forth that has been able to deny the Bible, otherwise it would have been dismissed over the last thousand years.

I also don't agree with the government, but when they say that you should drive the speed limit for your safety and for other people to be safe, it is correct. The government being the backer of this fact does not preclude the logic behind safe travel speeds. It is a provable fact and the character of the government does not mean speed limits are not in essence the correct means to navigate the road for safety.

>>6887
It is a significant change because of the nature of Christ fulfilling everything God set in place. His death and resurrection and the Holy Spirit being a part of our lives means that the way we can approach God even in sin is radically altered, as Jesus becomes a direct mediator between God and man. There was a divide present between humanity and God before that could not be satisfied by living a good life or doing some ritual. God states multiple times that the sacrificial system did not do anything to please Himself, it was meant to show the cost of sin and the need for a solution, a price that He would pay on our behalf.

This is why the New Testament has that name. A testament is a covenant, a contract, a promise. God made a promise with Israel, the Old Testament, that Jesus would eventually come and do these things until then. Jesus arrives and makes a new promise, a New Testament, that He bares the cost of sin and we become new men through Him, able to approach God without sin ever being a factor again.

>>6876
>Why is it always a fucking Gnostic?
Schizos who insist their fanfiction is actually relevant to Christianity.

>>6889
Very true. The Gnostic expanded lore is very crazy. They have texts that say God raped Eve, the Roman gods are part of the lineage of God, and Judas was killed by Jesus because Jesus wanted to info dump all of this onto him and made him want to neck himself. Very strange stuff.

>>6890
It's interesting lore, but it's really simply not canon. May as well be a separate religion.

>>6891
It is separate, despite the insistence of some. Gnosticism is basically two steps removed from Luciferianism. With God and Jesus made to be enemies, Jesus is basically the Luciferian architype, bringing knowledge and rebellion instead of salvation and unity.

>>6892
I get it. I don't really hold any enmity towards them, but it's annoying when they pop up shoehorning their extraneous stuff into discussions of canon scripture. .

>>6886
First, there is no evil God throughout the Old Testament. This is the Gnostic belief. Where in the text is evil to be found in God? He is constantly punishing Jews for being villainous little shits. If you hold that this makes God evil, that might explain such a position, which is why the Jews no longer hold to the Bible for their rituals, having divorced themselves from someone that judges them.
Judges 19 paints an....interesting portrait of morality. Saving a stranger from being graped by giving his daughter and concubine to the mob as substitute; chopping the concubine up into 12 pieces to ship across the tribes; forming an army in Judges 20 and starting a war with the tribe of the guilty persons, which leads to about 40,000 Israelite deaths and wipes out all but the young boys of the tribe; and then stealing almost a thousand of two neighboring tribes' women by force to offer the remaining boys to marry them.

Who's being punished? Because this is misery on all fronts. Is it the man offering his concubine and daughter, being punished by the former's death? Is it the Benjaminites, being teamwiped before being given another chance? Is it the neighboring, uninvolved peoples, whose women were stolen and married off? Or is it the entire tribe of Israel with the 40,000 deaths???

>>6894
oops, forgot the > before the quote. My bad.

>>6894
Let's take a look at the passage to find out.

Judges 19:1-10
And it came to pass in those days, when there was no king in Israel, that there was a certain Levite sojourning on the side of mount Ephraim, who took to him a concubine out of Bethlehemjudah.
And his concubine played the whore against him, and went away from him unto her father's house to Bethlehemjudah, and was there four whole months.
And her husband arose, and went after her, to speak friendly unto her, and to bring her again, having his servant with him, and a couple of asses: and she brought him into her father's house: and when the father of the damsel saw him, he rejoiced to meet him.
And his father in law, the damsel's father, retained him; and he abode with him three days: so they did eat and drink, and lodged there.
And it came to pass on the fourth day, when they arose early in the morning, that he rose up to depart: and the damsel's father said unto his son in law, Comfort thine heart with a morsel of bread, and afterward go your way.
And they sat down, and did eat and drink both of them together: for the damsel's father had said unto the man, Be content, I pray thee, and tarry all night, and let thine heart be merry.
And when the man rose up to depart, his father in law urged him: therefore he lodged there again.
And he arose early in the morning on the fifth day to depart: and the damsel's father said, Comfort thine heart, I pray thee. And they tarried until afternoon, and they did eat both of them.
And when the man rose up to depart, he, and his concubine, and his servant, his father in law, the damsel's father, said unto him, Behold, now the day draweth toward evening, I pray you tarry all night: behold, the day groweth to an end, lodge here, that thine heart may be merry; and to morrow get you early on your way, that thou mayest go home.
But the man would not tarry that night, but he rose up and departed, and came over against Jebus, which is Jerusalem; and there were with him two asses saddled, his concubine also was with him.

First off, this revolves around a Levite. This is very important to note because they were a tribe specifically called to be priests. They could not do whatever they wanted. Think a nunnery today. They had a strict moral code. We find this guy having a side piece and, surprise surprise, she runs off to be a whore. What a shock. Someone you only took for sex ran off to find more sex?

We find him chasing after this lady and winds up staying at her house with the father for days on end. Don't you have a job to be doing? I guess this side piece is the most important thing on his mind.

Judges 19:11-22
And when they were by Jebus, the day was far spent; and the servant said unto his master, Come, I pray thee, and let us turn in into this city of the Jebusites, and lodge in it.
And his master said unto him, We will not turn aside hither into the city of a stranger, that is not of the children of Israel; we will pass over to Gibeah.
And he said unto his servant, Come, and let us draw near to one of these places to lodge all night, in Gibeah, or in Ramah.
And they passed on and went their way; and the sun went down upon them when they were by Gibeah, which belongeth to Benjamin.
And they turned aside thither, to go in and to lodge in Gibeah: and when he went in, he sat him down in a street of the city: for there was no man that took them into his house to lodging.
And, behold, there came an old man from his work out of the field at even, which was also of mount Ephraim; and he sojourned in Gibeah: but the men of the place were Benjamites.
And when he had lifted up his eyes, he saw a wayfaring man in the street of the city: and the old man said, Whither goest thou? and whence comest thou?
And he said unto him, We are passing from Bethlehemjudah toward the side of mount Ephraim; from thence am I: and I went to Bethlehemjudah, but I am now going to the house of the LORD; and there is no man that receiveth me to house.
Yet there is both straw and provender for our asses; and there is bread and wine also for me, and for thy handmaid, and for the young man which is with thy servants: there is no want of any thing.
And the old man said, Peace be with thee; howsoever let all thy wants lie upon me; only lodge not in the street.
So he brought him into his house, and gave provender unto the asses: and they washed their feet, and did eat and drink.
Now as they were making their hearts merry, behold, the men of the city, certain sons of Belial, beset the house round about, and beat at the door, and spake to the master of the house, the old man, saying, Bring forth the man that came into thine house, that we may know him.

So, we pick back up with the guy who has made a detour to try and get back home, being so delayed. He comes to rest in a place with no plan. Lodging isn't always available in the region of Benjamen, as Mary and Joseph will find out over a thousand years on. Given that this guy has servants to tell this to, he ought to have been smart enough for that, but I guess chasing women doesn't help in the IQ department.

He decides, fuck it, I will sleep in the street. A guy offers to take him off the street. Kind guy, but he doesn't know what this guy has been up to or the attention he brought to himself sleeping in the slums. The key phrasing here is "there is both straw and provender for our asses; and there is bread and wine also for me, and for thy handmaid, and for the young man which is with thy servants: there is no want of any thing". In other words, he looks fairly well to do and is sleeping in the slums.

>>6896
Well, unfortunately evil people exist in slums. He was noticed and followed to the kind guy's house. They are labeled as sons of Belial, aka the worthless ones, this is in the form of crazy people, murderers, and queers. We know this because they are asking "Bring forth the man that came into thine house, that we may know him", in other words they want to fuck the rich guy. They might also be doing this out of a desire to get back at richy for making them live in slums. Regardless of intent, they are intent on pure evil. Would be happening if this priest wasn't a fucking dumbass and immoral, which seems to be the point of this lesson. Let's continue.

Judges 19:23-30
And the man, the master of the house, went out unto them, and said unto them, Nay, my brethren, nay, I pray you, do not so wickedly; seeing that this man is come into mine house, do not this folly.
Behold, here is my daughter a maiden, and his concubine; them I will bring out now, and humble ye them, and do with them what seemeth good unto you: but unto this man do not so vile a thing.
But the men would not hearken to him: so the man took his concubine, and brought her forth unto them; and they knew her, and abused her all the night until the morning: and when the day began to spring, they let her go.
Then came the woman in the dawning of the day, and fell down at the door of the man's house where her lord was, till it was light.
And her lord rose up in the morning, and opened the doors of the house, and went out to go his way: and, behold, the woman his concubine was fallen down at the door of the house, and her hands were upon the threshold.
And he said unto her, Up, and let us be going. But none answered. Then the man took her up upon an ass, and the man rose up, and gat him unto his place.
And when he was come into his house, he took a knife, and laid hold on his concubine, and divided her, together with her bones, into twelve pieces, and sent her into all the coasts of Israel.
And it was so, that all that saw it said, There was no such deed done nor seen from the day that the children of Israel came up out of the land of Egypt unto this day: consider of it, take advice, and speak your minds.

You might wonder why they would cave into the demands. Well, remember that the guy that offered a place to stay was considered an old man, and it is doubtful the priest would be able to hold back a bunch of crazy rapists and they might just decide to burn the house down, so they caved. But instead of letting them be homos, they offered women. This is very odd by modern understanding, but they hated the gay so much back then that if there was no way out without everyone being raped or killed, they sacrificed the women to keep the gay away.

Definitely not the bravest types on display. But we are about to see the madness get worse. The children of Belial rape the host's daughter and the sidepiece that the priest had. When that is over after an entire night, the priest just shrugs it off and demands the woman come along. She doesn't respond. She is absolutely broken by abuse. So, naturally, the priest takes her away, kills her, and sends different parts of her all across the land... wait... so this fuck head that only thought about sex was actually a bad person this whole time and disposed of his sex toy without any feeling whatsoever? Can't be a moral to this story at all. This sort of things also never happens and can't be discussed about in the Bible to avoid and to learn from. Can't imagine it.

Judges 20:1-10
Then all the children of Israel went out, and the congregation was gathered together as one man, from Dan even to Beersheba, with the land of Gilead, unto the LORD in Mizpeh.
And the chief of all the people, even of all the tribes of Israel, presented themselves in the assembly of the people of God, four hundred thousand footmen that drew sword.
(Now the children of Benjamin heard that the children of Israel were gone up to Mizpeh.) Then said the children of Israel, Tell us, how was this wickedness?
And the Levite, the husband of the woman that was slain, answered and said, I came into Gibeah that belongeth to Benjamin, I and my concubine, to lodge.
And the men of Gibeah rose against me, and beset the house round about upon me by night, and thought to have slain me: and my concubine have they forced, that she is dead.
And I took my concubine, and cut her in pieces, and sent her throughout all the country of the inheritance of Israel: for they have committed lewdness and folly in Israel.
Behold, ye are all children of Israel; give here your advice and counsel.
And all the people arose as one man, saying, We will not any of us go to his tent, neither will we any of us turn into his house.
But now this shall be the thing which we will do to Gibeah; we will go up by lot against it;
And we will take ten men of an hundred throughout all the tribes of Israel, and an hundred of a thousand, and a thousand out of ten thousand, to fetch victual for the people, that they may do, when they come to Gibeah of Benjamin, according to all the folly that they have wrought in Israel.

And now the guy plays the victim. Now, the hard thing to have to wrap your head around is that even though this guy is a piece of actual shit, he has a point. What was done to him was wrong, even though he is a merciless killer himself and a terrible priest. He was nearly raped, innocent people got raped, and the city is not arresting or killing any of these people. It is time for action. It is only a shame that such a person is able to ride the waves of righteous fury to dodge responsibility.

>>6896
>>6897
Wow, I really didn't expect this much detail. This is actually quite enlightening, thanks man. I'm frankly ignorant to the many tribes of Israel and the groups involved, and to hear all of this laid out in the queen's English adds a lot of context. Now I'm actually curious enough to do some research into the depictions of Belial throughout the bible to know more about them.

>>6897
Judges 20:11-18
So all the men of Israel were gathered against the city, knit together as one man.
And the tribes of Israel sent men through all the tribe of Benjamin, saying, What wickedness is this that is done among you?
Now therefore deliver us the men, the children of Belial, which are in Gibeah, that we may put them to death, and put away evil from Israel. But the children of Benjamin would not hearken to the voice of their brethren the children of Israel:
But the children of Benjamin gathered themselves together out of the cities unto Gibeah, to go out to battle against the children of Israel.
And the children of Benjamin were numbered at that time out of the cities twenty and six thousand men that drew sword, beside the inhabitants of Gibeah, which were numbered seven hundred chosen men.
Among all this people there were seven hundred chosen men lefthanded; every one could sling stones at an hair breadth, and not miss.
And the men of Israel, beside Benjamin, were numbered four hundred thousand men that drew sword: all these were men of war.
And the children of Israel arose, and went up to the house of God, and asked counsel of God, and said, Which of us shall go up first to the battle against the children of Benjamin? And the LORD said, Judah shall go up first.

So, they go over to the city and demand justice. The city is all like: diversity is our strength, rapist rights!
So yeah, war was definitely on the table. They were aiding and protecting these absolute scumbags that rape women all night for fun. God says let them have it. I don't see the moral issue here.

Judges 20:19-25
And the children of Israel rose up in the morning, and encamped against Gibeah.
And the men of Israel went out to battle against Benjamin; and the men of Israel put themselves in array to fight against them at Gibeah.
And the children of Benjamin came forth out of Gibeah, and destroyed down to the ground of the Israelites that day twenty and two thousand men.
And the people the men of Israel encouraged themselves, and set their battle again in array in the place where they put themselves in array the first day.
(And the children of Israel went up and wept before the LORD until even, and asked counsel of the LORD, saying, Shall I go up again to battle against the children of Benjamin my brother? And the LORD said, Go up against him.)
And the children of Israel came near against the children of Benjamin the second day.
And Benjamin went forth against them out of Gibeah the second day, and destroyed down to the ground of the children of Israel again eighteen thousand men; all these drew the sword.
Then all the children of Israel, and all the people, went up, and came unto the house of God, and wept, and sat there before the LORD, and fasted that day until even, and offered burnt offerings and peace offerings before the LORD.
And the children of Israel enquired of the LORD, (for the ark of the covenant of God was there in those days,
And Phinehas, the son of Eleazar, the son of Aaron, stood before it in those days,) saying, Shall I yet again go out to battle against the children of Benjamin my brother, or shall I cease? And the LORD said, Go up; for to morrow I will deliver them into thine hand.
And Israel set liers in wait round about Gibeah.
And the children of Israel went up against the children of Benjamin on the third day, and put themselves in array against Gibeah, as at other times.
And the children of Benjamin went out against the people, and were drawn away from the city; and they began to smite of the people, and kill, as at other times, in the highways, of which one goeth up to the house of God, and the other to Gibeah in the field, about thirty men of Israel.
And the children of Benjamin said, They are smitten down before us, as at the first. But the children of Israel said, Let us flee, and draw them from the city unto the highways.
And all the men of Israel rose up out of their place, and put themselves in array at Baaltamar: and the liers in wait of Israel came forth out of their places, even out of the meadows of Gibeah.
And there came against Gibeah ten thousand chosen men out of all Israel, and the battle was sore: but they knew not that evil was near them.
And the LORD smote Benjamin before Israel: and the children of Israel destroyed of the Benjamites that day twenty and five thousand and an hundred men: all these drew the sword.

This is packed full of details. First, there are losses for Israel. The people that want to do good sometimes get killed? What kind of God allows death? Well, that is part of living in a world with sin, war, and decay. People die. There is a massive enemy force and they seem better equipped and skilled than this army that is fighting for justice. This is reality. God could have made everyone totally invincible if He wanted to, but first of all, who would believe a story where everyone lives and the bad guys all get wiped out instantly? Second, there is a cost to doing what is right, especially so delayed from when you should have intervened. The time for action was not when the murderer priest called for action. It was when there were queers forming in cities nearby. You don't just allow this evil and not pay the price when you ignore it.

So, yes, people died that should not have died. People were raped that should not have been raped. It is clear that this is a lesson in avoiding this in the future, learned the hard way by men thousands of years ago. It is also fairly early into the formation of Israel. They didn't have total control of the region, so you can't put the blame completely on them for not being completely on top of things, but they definitely could have been on top of the priest that is taking sidepieces. Could have stopped it then and there.

>>6898
Details really help explain the nature of what is occurring, which is why I really like the King James Version. You sometimes have to reread it a bunch to get the meaning because it is older and not as immediately apparent, but the details are very precise because it is not oversimplifying or dumbing it down. You get as much as they could pack in the translation without going off script. It is always worth a look.

>>6899
Judges 20:26-48
Then all the children of Israel, and all the people, went up, and came unto the house of God, and wept, and sat there before the LORD, and fasted that day until even, and offered burnt offerings and peace offerings before the LORD.
And the children of Israel enquired of the LORD, (for the ark of the covenant of God was there in those days,
And Phinehas, the son of Eleazar, the son of Aaron, stood before it in those days,) saying, Shall I yet again go out to battle against the children of Benjamin my brother, or shall I cease? And the LORD said, Go up; for to morrow I will deliver them into thine hand.
And Israel set liers in wait round about Gibeah.
And the children of Israel went up against the children of Benjamin on the third day, and put themselves in array against Gibeah, as at other times.
And the children of Benjamin went out against the people, and were drawn away from the city; and they began to smite of the people, and kill, as at other times, in the highways, of which one goeth up to the house of God, and the other to Gibeah in the field, about thirty men of Israel.
And the children of Benjamin said, They are smitten down before us, as at the first. But the children of Israel said, Let us flee, and draw them from the city unto the highways.
And all the men of Israel rose up out of their place, and put themselves in array at Baaltamar: and the liers in wait of Israel came forth out of their places, even out of the meadows of Gibeah.
And there came against Gibeah ten thousand chosen men out of all Israel, and the battle was sore: but they knew not that evil was near them.
And the LORD smote Benjamin before Israel: and the children of Israel destroyed of the Benjamites that day twenty and five thousand and an hundred men: all these drew the sword.
So the children of Benjamin saw that they were smitten: for the men of Israel gave place to the Benjamites, because they trusted unto the liers in wait which they had set beside Gibeah.
And the liers in wait hasted, and rushed upon Gibeah; and the liers in wait drew themselves along, and smote all the city with the edge of the sword.
Now there was an appointed sign between the men of Israel and the liers in wait, that they should make a great flame with smoke rise up out of the city.
And when the men of Israel retired in the battle, Benjamin began to smite and kill of the men of Israel about thirty persons: for they said, Surely they are smitten down before us, as in the first battle.
But when the flame began to arise up out of the city with a pillar of smoke, the Benjamites looked behind them, and, behold, the flame of the city ascended up to heaven.
And when the men of Israel turned again, the men of Benjamin were amazed: for they saw that evil was come upon them.
Therefore they turned their backs before the men of Israel unto the way of the wilderness; but the battle overtook them; and them which came out of the cities they destroyed in the midst of them.
Thus they inclosed the Benjamites round about, and chased them, and trode them down with ease over against Gibeah toward the sunrising.
And there fell of Benjamin eighteen thousand men; all these were men of valour.
And they turned and fled toward the wilderness unto the rock of Rimmon: and they gleaned of them in the highways five thousand men; and pursued hard after them unto Gidom, and slew two thousand men of them.
So that all which fell that day of Benjamin were twenty and five thousand men that drew the sword; all these were men of valour.
But six hundred men turned and fled to the wilderness unto the rock Rimmon, and abode in the rock Rimmon four months.
And the men of Israel turned again upon the children of Benjamin, and smote them with the edge of the sword, as well the men of every city, as the beast, and all that came to hand: also they set on fire all the cities that they came to.

So, the rest of the passage talks about the results of the war. IT covers a plan that Israel carried out that hide some guys so they would draw out the forces and then rush the city when everyone was outside in battle. With the city on fire and people escaping, they encircled the troops that were stunned at the strategy and chaos, and only 600 of their force were able to retreat.

Then Israel purged the cities. People will likely point to this out of everything in here as being immoral. Some of the people that were purged probably were not guilty, but they did side with the city and didn't get out of dodge during the battle, didn't aid the forces demanding justice, didn't revolt or demand the leadership yield. It seems the majority agreed. Perhaps the minority that opposed did leave and we were not told or the Israelite army was not aware of the departure. Regardless, purges were not uncommon to be certain, and removing people that either openly or secretly support evil acts tends to have better results long term than letting them just do it over again. Perhaps it is harsh, but I fail to see that it is evil in itself.

>>6901
Now here comes the part that is the actual problem with the situation, the aftermath.

Judges 21:1-25
Now the men of Israel had sworn in Mizpeh, saying, There shall not any of us give his daughter unto Benjamin to wife.
And the people came to the house of God, and abode there till even before God, and lifted up their voices, and wept sore;
And said, O LORD God of Israel, why is this come to pass in Israel, that there should be to day one tribe lacking in Israel?
And it came to pass on the morrow, that the people rose early, and built there an altar, and offered burnt offerings and peace offerings.
And the children of Israel said, Who is there among all the tribes of Israel that came not up with the congregation unto the LORD? For they had made a great oath concerning him that came not up to the LORD to Mizpeh, saying, He shall surely be put to death.
And the children of Israel repented them for Benjamin their brother, and said, There is one tribe cut off from Israel this day.
How shall we do for wives for them that remain, seeing we have sworn by the LORD that we will not give them of our daughters to wives?
And they said, What one is there of the tribes of Israel that came not up to Mizpeh to the LORD? And, behold, there came none to the camp from Jabeshgilead to the assembly.
For the people were numbered, and, behold, there were none of the inhabitants of Jabeshgilead there.
And the congregation sent thither twelve thousand men of the valiantest, and commanded them, saying, Go and smite the inhabitants of Jabeshgilead with the edge of the sword, with the women and the children.
And this is the thing that ye shall do, Ye shall utterly destroy every male, and every woman that hath lain by man.
And they found among the inhabitants of Jabeshgilead four hundred young virgins, that had known no man by lying with any male: and they brought them unto the camp to Shiloh, which is in the land of Canaan.
And the whole congregation sent some to speak to the children of Benjamin that were in the rock Rimmon, and to call peaceably unto them.
And Benjamin came again at that time; and they gave them wives which they had saved alive of the women of Jabeshgilead: and yet so they sufficed them not.
And the people repented them for Benjamin, because that the LORD had made a breach in the tribes of Israel.
Then the elders of the congregation said, How shall we do for wives for them that remain, seeing the women are destroyed out of Benjamin?
And they said, There must be an inheritance for them that be escaped of Benjamin, that a tribe be not destroyed out of Israel.
Howbeit we may not give them wives of our daughters: for the children of Israel have sworn, saying, Cursed be he that giveth a wife to Benjamin.
Then they said, Behold, there is a feast of the LORD in Shiloh yearly in a place which is on the north side of Bethel, on the east side of the highway that goeth up from Bethel to Shechem, and on the south of Lebonah.
Therefore they commanded the children of Benjamin, saying, Go and lie in wait in the vineyards;
And see, and, behold, if the daughters of Shiloh come out to dance in dances, then come ye out of the vineyards, and catch you every man his wife of the daughters of Shiloh, and go to the land of Benjamin.
And it shall be, when their fathers or their brethren come unto us to complain, that we will say unto them, Be favourable unto them for our sakes: because we reserved not to each man his wife in the war: for ye did not give unto them at this time, that ye should be guilty.
And the children of Benjamin did so, and took them wives, according to their number, of them that danced, whom they caught: and they went and returned unto their inheritance, and repaired the cities, and dwelt in them.
And the children of Israel departed thence at that time, every man to his tribe and to his family, and they went out from thence every man to his inheritance.
In those days there was no king in Israel: every man did that which was right in his own eyes.

So, the people of Israel do one thing correct here in their understanding that this is a major problem. One of the tribes of Israel is basically wiped out. There is a likelihood that the tribe won't recover without some action, which is a problem because God plans to use the tribe of Benjermin in the future. Instead of asking God about it though, they plan to wipe out another city that didn't help. To be fair, I would be pissed that thousands died in battle and these fuckers just said 'who cares about some bitch getting raped, not my problem and not my war'. I don't think wiping them out and then forcing marriages is the wisest move to rebuild, but that is what they went with. It is sort of their own fault as well for swearing to God that they will not give any wife to Benjermin from their own tribes. Kind of fucked yourself with that promise. I don't see in the text that God demanded that oath, so I think they just wanted to punish them further without realizing they can't go back on a promise they made otherwise they would be punished for lying to God. Dumbasses.

Well, they run into another problem. They bring back the spared virgins from the fuck you city with everyone else dead, and then this happens "and they gave them wives which they had saved alive of the women of Jabeshgilead: and yet so they sufficed them not". I am not completely sure what this means. Perhaps they aren't getting along because they just caused the deaths of all of their friends and family, making it not a great time in bed, maybe they were infertile, maybe they were just grade A bitches and annoyed everyone. Short of it was, they weren't working out. Fucking brilliant.

So, the hatch a brilliant plan, to kidnap women that are out dancing. Foolproof. And when people naturally take issue, they will basically say sorry, but it was the only way plus you owe us. I believe the ending to this chapter is a perfect summary.

In those days there was no king in Israel: every man did that which was right in his own eyes.

>>6902
There are many lessons to learn from all of this, like not letting psycho priests get away with sin or you might start a tribal war that makes you consider kidnapping women to rebuild, which makes you only slightly less warped than the rapists you set out to kill. A lot of mess can be solved with some oversight and standards. Plus, fuck queers.

I had originally planned to talk about Phinehas because that is a name that comes up later, but I believe I have misidentified him. This is Phinehas, son of Eleazar. The Phinehas that appears later in the Bible is Phinehas, son of Eli. That is a story for another time, but I definitely need to cover it. But it seems that Eli's Phinehas might have been given that name in remembrance of this one.

>>7086
>>7108
>>7109
I don't understand why you believe there is an exception to your spam here, especially since you keep posting things that simultaneously support and denounce the truthfulness of the Bible. Regardless, your selection to copy/paste this time does not reflect the conclusion to the article that you also posted a picture of, which creates two conflicting messages. If people only bother to read what you posted, they will conclude Jesus is a scam made by Jews to be liked more, despite them making themselves out to be evil throughout the New Testament.

Your picture of the conclusion does rectify this, but your lack of input once again undermines your conclusion. It is like having a headline that reads "We are at war!!!" and the actual content of the article says we fight against illiteracy.

The conclusion is correct. The Jews would publicly stone Paul for what he said, which would not be wise to do with your lead teacher in the new faith that is supposed to usurp the whole world. Paul making it up also doesn't make sense because Paul was a convert by the confession of different authors. He came on the scene later than the origin of the religion.

Furthermore, if it was their invention, not only was it so bad at setting them into power that it took two thousand years to finally get a foothold, they shot themselves in the foot in now they have to propagate the destruction of Christianity to rid themselves of those that know there is no Messiah still coming for the Jews to aid them ruling the world. Jesus gave the world over to the gentiles, which means that the Jews can't hold claim under Christianity, as the world isn't theirs to take. So, they used the worst religious structure possible to achieve their objectives and it was their 5D chess to be undermined for two thousand years and then destroy their secret Jew power cult to gain more power as proven by their moves to remove iconography, prayers, and religious teachings in school systems by actions from groups like the ADL when it is simultaneously the most effective infiltration system they have. This is why I can't take the position seriously. Christianity always has been a thorn in their side. It is just the IQ of people that leads to the results we see, as people can't be bothered to read.

>>7111 (trips checked)
>I don't understand why you believe there is an exception to your spam here
This.
He does this in every thread. He randomly posts a low-quality caption meme, or copy-pastes some greentext from some crappy internet tabloid he's read, and contributes nothing to the conversation, aside from the occasional unsupported hot take.
Then when you ask him to elaborate on what he's trying to communicate he gets all defensive and calls you a shill, or just shits up the thread with nonsense accusations or smug reaction images.
Every thread inevitably gets flooded with this crap, and it's obvious that it's all one guy because he has that telltale "this shit again" posting style.

>>7111
>you keep posting things that simultaneously support and denounce the truthfulness of the Bible
>Regardless, your selection to copy/paste this time does not reflect the conclusion to the article that you also posted a picture of, which creates two conflicting messages
He does this in every thread. He posts links and memes that contradict eachother with no coherent meaning.
Sometimes he sticks to the threads without poster IDs so that it's less obvious that he doesn't know what he's talking about, even though he's samefagging with mutually exclusive narratives.
>Your picture of the conclusion does rectify this, but your lack of input once again undermines your conclusion
There is no conclusion. He's just thoughtlessly reposting it with the same level of critical thinking as the average Facebook poster. I don't know if he even believes what he posts.

>>7111
>especially since you keep posting things that simultaneously support and denounce the truthfulness of the Bible.
>>7113
>He does this in every thread. He posts links and memes that contradict eachother with no coherent meaning.
Since you both are low IQ borderline retarded and expect direct programming without conflicting views instead of to making your mind yourselves........
This is an recurrent issue in this website, some anons only post to attack a shitposter instead of discussing new ideas or post new ones. The pathetic state of themselves.

>>7111
>you keep posting things that simultaneously support and denounce the truthfulness of the Bible.
>>7086 and >>7109 supports the Bible; >>7108 discusses right-wing neo-pagan ideas trying to rebut the Bible but concludes the arguments are fallacious and incomplete, them the Bible and Christianity keep being valid.
In conclusion, you jumped the gun just to attack my post without even comprehend >>7108.
Also make yourself a big favor and KYS.

>>7114
>making your mind yourselves
Fucking hell. You are so full of shit.
We're all completely capable of making up our own minds. What we're sick of is (You) shitting up the place with your spam, with which you often post with no personal input or attempt to perpetuate conversation.
>expect direct programming
We don't expect any programming, and we especially don't want your constant stream of Facebook-tier goyslops.
>instead of
>implying
This entire site is built on the priority of quality over quantity. There are regular posters here; they just don't post at the rate that your Facebook or Instagram feed does. People only bother to post about it because you've been progressively shitting up the board with your spam for the past 2-3 years.
And there we go again with the smug reaction posting and baseless accusations, coupled with the delusion of persecution when people respond to your crap with any measure of negativity.

>>7117
>You are so full of shit.
It goes both ways. If you don't like some posts then make your own, faggot.
Also you resent memes and reaction ponies. Do you know where you are?

>>7117
>This entire site is built on the priority of quality over quantity.
Did you even read >>7108? It is a top thought provoking article and you have no better idea than kvetching about it based on... "i don't like the poster style". Seriously?

>>7116
Because your summery of events imply the Bible being false.
>>A 2000-Year-Old Rabbinical Psyop: Did Jews Invent Christianity to Deceive Gentiles?
>>Anyone reading White Nationalist literature is bound to come across articles hostile to Christianity. The foremost claim appears to be that Christianity itself was invented by Jews (whether by Saint Paul or some unknown rabbinical cabal) for the purpose of deceiving gentiles. Christianity was devised by Jews, then, as a way of conditioning gentiles to be sympathetic to Jews and Jewish causes and take down the Roman Empire with its radically different ethics. It was a means of influencing them from the beginning to oppose Rome, its power, and its paganism.
>>By portraying Christianity’s greatest hero as a humble Jewish carpenter turned Messiah, along with his Jewish apostles and, particularly, by “rabbi” Paul as its foremost theologian who shaped what Christians were to believe, gentiles would unknowingly turn out to be great proponents of all things Jewish.
Implying that green intro is true.
Followes up with your post.
>>7109

>>7121
>Because your summery of events imply the Bible being false.
>Implying that green intro is true.
Exactly, and because I counted with that retarded reaction of judging without to even read it, I added a second pic with the article's conclusion as preemptive measure against the low quality anons populating this site.

>>7121
>>7109
>It's not that I don't care.
>I have insider information.
Memes aren't just
TOP TEXT
BOTTOM TEXT
They're not Faceburg nu-pol swill. I know you think bot infestested nu-/pol/ is the gold standard for memes but that's not the case.
>>7123
... you're a shit poster not a shitposter.
Why not just post the conclusion.

>>7123
>low quality anons populating this site
Said the nigger to the kettle.

>>7124
>>7126
WOW

>>7108
This is hardly even bible study. It's just vaguely related to Christianity.

>>7127
WOW!
>the low quality anons populating this site.
Golly gee wilikers better post some more TOP TEXT BOTTOM TEXT and Smuggies.
>>7125
>>7126
That's a little uncalled for. We haven't quite reached that comparison yet.
>>7127
Your getting push back because of posting habits.
Because of everything all the tiny straws are mounting up to break the camel's back.

>>7128
>>7129
You both have to apologize. Derailing this thread with your petty squabbles in not right.

>>7130
As do you. You've derailed the thread.
This isn't Christianity General. It's Bible Study.
>>3411
>Discuss and study the Bible

>>7130
You replied to every one of those posts with more shitposts, doubling the shitposts.
I apologize for nothing.
Also, pretty sure one of those posters is OP. You should apologize to him.

2 Corinthians 3:6 Who also hath made us able ministers of the new testament; not of the letter, but of the spirit: for the letter killeth, but the spirit giveth life.
(A selection from the Bible before the next section.)

We're going to be going through the Bible in spirit.
<When you feel The Holy Spirit moving as you read, letters jumping off the page, new and old connections. I'd like to say thanks, for He is trustworthy.
Each section a line(s) pulled out to consider as we read.
>For therein is the righteousness of God revealed from faith to faith: as it is written, The just shall live by faith.
Starting at Romans.
Romans 1
King James Version
>1 Paul, a servant of Jesus Christ, called to be an apostle, separated unto the gospel of God,
>2 (Which he had promised afore by his prophets in the holy scriptures,)
>3 Concerning his Son Jesus Christ our Lord, which was made of the seed of David according to the flesh;
>4 And declared to be the Son of God with power, according to the spirit of holiness, by the resurrection from the dead:
>5 By whom we have received grace and apostleship, for obedience to the faith among all nations, for his name:
>6 Among whom are ye also the called of Jesus Christ:
>7 To all that be in Rome, beloved of God, called to be saints: Grace to you and peace from God our Father, and the Lord Jesus Christ.
>8 First, I thank my God through Jesus Christ for you all, that your faith is spoken of throughout the whole world.
>9 For God is my witness, whom I serve with my spirit in the gospel of his Son, that without ceasing I make mention of you always in my prayers;
>10 Making request, if by any means now at length I might have a prosperous journey by the will of God to come unto you.
>11 For I long to see you, that I may impart unto you some spiritual gift, to the end ye may be established;
>12 That is, that I may be comforted together with you by the mutual faith both of you and me.
>13 Now I would not have you ignorant, brethren, that oftentimes I purposed to come unto you, (but was let hitherto,) that I might have some fruit among you also, even as among other Gentiles.
>14 I am debtor both to the Greeks, and to the Barbarians; both to the wise, and to the unwise.
>15 So, as much as in me is, I am ready to preach the gospel to you that are at Rome also.
>16 For I am not ashamed of the gospel of Christ: for it is the power of God unto salvation to every one that believeth; to the Jew first, and also to the Greek.
>17 For therein is the righteousness of God revealed from faith to faith: as it is written, The just shall live by faith.
>18 For the wrath of God is revealed from heaven against all ungodliness and unrighteousness of men, who hold the truth in unrighteousness;
>19 Because that which may be known of God is manifest in them; for God hath shewed it unto them.
>20 For the invisible things of him from the creation of the world are clearly seen, being understood by the things that are made, even his eternal power and Godhead; so that they are without excuse:
>21 Because that, when they knew God, they glorified him not as God, neither were thankful; but became vain in their imaginations, and their foolish heart was darkened.
>22 Professing themselves to be wise, they became fools,
>23 And changed the glory of the uncorruptible God into an image made like to corruptible man, and to birds, and fourfooted beasts, and creeping things.
>24 Wherefore God also gave them up to uncleanness through the lusts of their own hearts, to dishonour their own bodies between themselves:
>25 Who changed the truth of God into a lie, and worshipped and served the creature more than the Creator, who is blessed for ever. Amen.
>26 For this cause God gave them up unto vile affections: for even their women did change the natural use into that which is against nature:
>27 And likewise also the men, leaving the natural use of the woman, burned in their lust one toward another; men with men working that which is unseemly, and receiving in themselves that recompence of their error which was meet.
>28 And even as they did not like to retain God in their knowledge, God gave them over to a reprobate mind, to do those things which are not convenient;
>29 Being filled with all unrighteousness, fornication, wickedness, covetousness, maliciousness; full of envy, murder, debate, deceit, malignity; whisperers,
>30 Backbiters, haters of God, despiteful, proud, boasters, inventors of evil things, disobedient to parents,
>31 Without understanding, covenantbreakers, without natural affection, implacable, unmerciful:
>32 Who knowing the judgment of God, that they which commit such things are worthy of death, not only do the same, but have pleasure in them that do them.
It's impossible for fallen man to please God as God deserves in any other way besides faith in (and through) Jesus.
This first section looks to summarise Jesus, God and what happened in the Old Testament.
The beginning is a preface for the rest of the letter.
Who Paul is, who the letter is for.
The Good News written because he is not able to make it to Rome in person.
<23-32
This also shows how and why God gives what they desire and that too is punishment. They desired to be even further away from God.
To be as far away as possible and deserving of all that befalls on them.
Looks like it's all doom now as the impossibility of righting a broken relationship is out of their hands.
Which at the lowest point Paul shares the Good News in the next section if I'm correctly recalling.

>>7114
>>7116
You are literally too retarded to realize I am OP and previously answered you way back here
>>6868
Which does NOT support the truthfulness of the Bible. You probably don't even remember because you only copy/paste everything and don't read my posts as you look for more articles. You are asking the OP you are spamming with random images to kill himself. Take that in. You have your own specified spam thread allowed by the staff and you come here to post more, do a shit job copying/pasting, get called out, and I am the problem for hosting a BIBLE STUDY thread and not wanting an image that says "I have insider information" as that helps the BIBLE STUDY so much.

>>7123
I literally mentioned this in my response. I said that should you ignore your image and just read the actual content of your post, you advocated for the opposite of the image. This is a bad job on your part, because you offered nothing of substance to your post. Return to your containment if you aren't going to either study the Bible or debate Bible stuff. Your articles do nothing for this thread because you refuse to engage.
>>7124
>why not post the conclusion
Exactly my point.
>>7127
And apparently copy/pasting the correct portion of the article is too hard for you.
>>7130
>WAHHHH
>YOU HAVE TO APOLOGIZE
How about apologizing for not staying in your lane with your content? You promised to stay there with this shit. If you post an article and want answers, I want engagement. You have proven I have been typing into the void as you didn't read a single thing I have posted.

>>7139
Hi OP. Everything is fine, but the post count has to go up.

>>7141
>but the post count has to go up
Spamming to increase shitty numbers is worse than nothing.

>>7142
It would be unnecessary all that trouble if at least the anons would post some fillies.

>>7143
Or talked about THE BIBLE. It's a Bible study thread. Talk about the book.

>>7141
>>7143
Post count does not need to go up. If you are hard wired to make number bigger, do not use this thread unless you intend to actually study the Bible, ask questions because you are curious about the answer, or intend to debate Biblical doctrine. You can post your articles in your specialized threads in your own location. You bumped this thread to my utter disappointment because you had no intention to actually interact. I always perk up to this thread only to realize each and every time that no one actually gives a shit and you use this as more territory for yourself and yourself alone.

>>3411
cucKing (((James))) banned the word: "tyrant" from the (((jew-king yames))) version, particularly """jeremiah 15:21""". Yet, hilariously, "tyrant" was used in the (((geneva))) version. Not only that, the word """witch""" was never used outside of the cucKing (((james))) version; all others used the word 'poisoner'.

Stay sheepled.

>>7306
One of these days, someone will actually want to use my thread for a Bible study and not bump it with trash. Or maybe not. Let's tackle your highly sourced refutation of the Bible.

There is no word tyrant and witch is used. Wow. Excellent work. The whole Bible is now useless. But let's examine this part by part and not just take your word for it and we will get a clear understanding if there is a flaw at all.

Jeremiah 15:21 from the King James Bible
And I will deliver thee out of the hand of the wicked, and I will redeem thee out of the hand of the terrible.

Terrible from the day this was written in was not simply a denotation of badness, but the root of the word was focused on, terror. Terrible can be a good thing in rare circumstances, most familiarly to fans of the Lord of the Rings movies. In Fellowship of the Ring, Galadriel states she will be "terrible as the dawn". The dawn is not something that normally inspires fear or something that is understood as bad. Instead she is stating that it will be as notable as this event, the power associated with the dawn. Is this what the verse is indicating in context?

I believe that it is actually in line with the classic meaning. Someone that is terrible is projecting terror upon others, specifically God saving you from those that have you in their hands. Thus, this is a synonym for tyrant, as the tyrant instills terror upon the people in his hand, or under his power.

But let's examine further what both translation offer in comparison to the original scripts.

Jeremiah 15:21 from the Geneva Bible
And I will deliver thee out of the hand of the wicked, and I will redeem thee out of the hand of the tyrants.

But perhaps it looks too much like an edit to save face for the king. If the original script says tyrant specifically, there can be no excuse.

Jeremiah 15:21 from the Greek Septuagint translation of the Hebrew Bible
"καὶ ἐξαιρεῖσθαί σε ἐκ χειρὸς πονηρῶν καὶ λυτρώσομαί σε ἐκ χειρὸς λοιμῶν."

The word we are looking for is λοιμῶν, which translates to pestilence, a pest, or a public menace.

Oops. You just saw the change without looking into the original text. The King James version just translated public menace as terrible ones and the Geneva version translated it tyrants completely independently of each other by looking for a good word to describe pests that have power over people.

I will assume the same exists for witch as well. You provide no quotes for that, but I will find some for you.

Galatians 5:20 from the King James Bible
Idolatry, witchcraft, hatred, variance, emulations, wrath, strife, seditions, heresies,

Let's compare.

Galatians 5:20 from the Geneva Bible
20 Idolatry, witchcraft, hatred, debate, emulations, wrath, contentions, seditions, heresies,

WAIT A SECOND

There is the word witch. You said it was only in the King James version. Where the fuck are you getting your information from? At least let me read the article you regurgitated you fucking retard. But maybe the witch in witchcraft doesn't count. Maybe it needs to be the sole word witch on its own.

Deuteronomy 18:10 from the Geneva Bible
There shall not be found among you any one that maketh his son or his daughter to pass through the fire, or that useth divination, or an observer of times, or an enchanter, or a witch,

Let's compare.

Deuteronomy 18:10 from the Geneva Bible
Let none be found among you that maketh his son or his daughter to go through the fire, or that useth witchcraft, or a regarder of times, or a marker of the flying of fowls, or a sorcerer,

It used the word witchcraft again. I will find one more instance where the word witch is used in the King James alone, because it seems to be the only time it is used alone besides Deuteronomy.

Exodus 22:18 from the King James Bible
Thou shalt not suffer a witch to live.

Comparing time.

Exodus 22:18 from the Geneva Bible
Thou shalt not suffer a witch to live.

You sir, are a fucking liar. What a joke. Please share where you discovered this shit so I can pick it apart more, because this is top grade retardation.

What you could have argued was the original text.
Exodus 22:18 from the Greek Septuagint translation of the Hebrew Bible
φαρμακοὺς οὐ περιποιήσετε.

The word φαρμακοὺς means sorcerer, magician, or one that practices medicines to similar intended magical effect. We get the word pharmacy from this word. So, in a way, the word poisoner wouldn't be the worst of translations, because witches were known to brew medicines for desired magical effect, often poisoning people that took it.

In the end, you were wrong about every point you brought up. What a waste of your time, my time, and everyone's time because you couldn't research this yourself.

>>7308
Oh man, looking at it more closely - what a great thread! I'll be going through everything in detail and asking some questions later.

For now though, there's something I hope to get help with:
An old friend of mine (we had drifted apart over the years) had "retreated into his shell" when I sent him a letter with well-sourced warnings/articles about the injection, just before they became available. To be honest, despite "meaning well" there was arrogance on my part at simply "expecting" him to process that information and make the choice I thought he'd make - my arrogance was partly fueled by my own waves of feeling intimidated on occasion and still refusing to fully confront the whole reality of such serious events beyond my control. (Standing strong in the face of accelerating end times events is quite a challenge.)
In hindsight, this may have even contributed towards his decision to get it (which he did), possibly due to him becoming even more "intimidated" by the scale of evil around him - not being able to "handle" some very confronting facts. He broke off all contact with me, and had become the most broken and inwardly-hurting man I had ever seen (although apparently this was going on for years before, possibly exacerbated by some persistent bad human elements/relations in his life that he wouldn't address). His inner pain and suffering is getting stronger and it's starting to manifest as serious physical ailments/diseases that could lead to his death soon.
TL;DR: He embraces and believes "in the Matrix", and is bound/married to it. Perhaps he even wants to die, but has a crippling fear of dying.

I don't want to repeat the same mistake when approaching him again regarding Christianity - he's a member of a church that teaches "judeo-christian" feel-good BS and it's part of his "shell" that he's built around himself.
I was going to send him a heartfelt and apologetic letter, retracting my arrogance and explaining my feelings with humbleness. Also included with the letter would be burned CDs of some selected sermons by Pastor Marrs from Bible Home Church, where he talks about finding freedom and relief from fear.

My friend has so much fear and intimidation inside of him, I don't think he's saved, but who am I to just blurt it out to him or disrupt his shell that he clings on to so much - he has his own life, and judging by outward appearances it's a good one.
We've both been through a lot and I don't want him to suffer, but despite further introspection still don't feel "qualified" to assist him - especially since I'm still "suffering/injured" in various ways myself and not the shining hero-example that a small part of him still appears to be looking for. In addition, his character-type moves towards his abusers (and still suffers/digs-up from events decades ago, and looks to peers/the-crowd for validation/judgement), my character-type moves away from abusers (and remains independent), but we both "glance behind us" at times and in most ways we're very "far apart" now.

TL;DR: Do you have experience in reaching out to someone like that, or know of some Bible passages or sermons or pastors (or maybe "heroes") that can help my suffering friend? If not, no pressure - I'll default to my own idea.

>>7310
Unfortunately, I have no experience of success in reaching others. I don't really have the charisma that is required to get people to listen and consider application. I can share what I know about the Bible though.

People that are consumed by fear are in a struggling relationship with God, if not devoid of the relationship altogether.

Herein is our love made perfect, that we may have boldness in the day of judgment: because as he is, so are we in this world.

1 John 4:18-21
There is no fear in love; but perfect love casteth out fear: because fear hath torment. He that feareth is not made perfect in love.
19We love him, because he first loved us.
20If a man say, I love God, and hateth his brother, he is a liar: for he that loveth not his brother whom he hath seen, how can he love God whom he hath not seen?
21And this commandment have we from him, That he who loveth God love his brother also.

The desire to fit in with the world in fear of losing something valuable is natural, as it strikes the hearts of the prophets as well. Elijah was gifted with miracles to present to the people that had abandoned God.

1 Kings 18:36-39
And it came to pass at the time of the offering of the evening sacrifice, that Elijah the prophet came near, and said, LORD God of Abraham, Isaac, and of Israel, let it be known this day that thou art God in Israel, and that I am thy servant, and that I have done all these things at thy word.
37Hear me, O LORD, hear me, that this people may know that thou art the LORD God, and that thou hast turned their heart back again.
38Then the fire of the LORD fell, and consumed the burnt sacrifice, and the wood, and the stones, and the dust, and licked up the water that was in the trench.
39And when all the people saw it, they fell on their faces: and they said, The LORD, he is the God; the LORD, he is the God.

Yet, after this display, the king of Israel was mad that he disproved his favorite false god of Baal, as his wife was pagan. The wife demanded the head of Elijah for crimes against the gods and so he ran.

1 Kings 19:9-15
And he came thither unto a cave, and lodged there; and, behold, the word of the LORD came to him, and he said unto him, What doest thou here, Elijah?
10And he said, I have been very jealous for the LORD God of hosts: for the children of Israel have forsaken thy covenant, thrown down thine altars, and slain thy prophets with the sword; and I, even I only, am left; and they seek my life, to take it away.
11And he said, Go forth, and stand upon the mount before the LORD. And, behold, the LORD passed by, and a great and strong wind rent the mountains, and brake in pieces the rocks before the LORD; but the LORD was not in the wind: and after the wind an earthquake; but the LORD was not in the earthquake:
12And after the earthquake a fire; but the LORD was not in the fire: and after the fire a still small voice.
13And it was so, when Elijah heard it, that he wrapped his face in his mantle, and went out, and stood in the entering in of the cave. And, behold, there came a voice unto him, and said, What doest thou here, Elijah?
14And he said, I have been very jealous for the LORD God of hosts: because the children of Israel have forsaken thy covenant, thrown down thine altars, and slain thy prophets with the sword; and I, even I only, am left; and they seek my life, to take it away.
15And the LORD said unto him, Go, return on thy way to the wilderness of Damascus: and when thou comest, anoint Hazael to be king over Syria:

This shows that Elijah fell into a depression, wishing that he could just fit in. He states to God that he is the only one left that makes any sense. Even after seeing the power of God and figuring out the meaning behind the display, he simply returned to his statement to God.

The meaning is that God is not found in the expected places, but in what appears to be weak, unlikely, and not desired. Elijah wanted the support of others, which is natural, and distressed over the lack of human support, despite having the support of God. God then answers this by having him go on another mission, during which he would meet Elisha, who would be his companion and support him in trouble, eventually taking his place as prophet.

Why do I mention this? I think this might help in a couple different ways. First, the expected answer that you will get is dismissal, as even God was dismissed by a prophet in fear and depression. Second, being the Elisha in the story, being an aid to the person in question, would be a great benefit, even when the person is resisting all aid. Third, sometimes people will never change, even in the face of irrefutable proof that fear is not the response to have in the face of opposition. Elijah was proven that God controlled the universe and no person could realistically oppose him, but he still felt powerless and alone.

Ultimately, the way to reach out is to reinforce companionship and to go over the Bible with him.

>>7310
Being part of a church already can be a dangerous thing in this era, as it can lead to one of two thoughts where the person can either believe himself already knowledgeable about the text and has already applied the lessons, or believes the Bible to be something akin to a community gathering point with a book reading. Especially in the churches that express modern values and interpretations that deviate from the obvious meaning being expressed. In either case, I would prepare for a resistance to the content of the Bible.

The matrix belief I assume is the belief that the world is a simulation? Or perhaps it is the belief that the world is an illusion and the reality lies behind what can be see? Though an element of this is the truth, as the world is not the totality of existence.

2 Corinthians 4:18
While we look not at the things which are seen, but at the things which are not seen: for the things which are seen are temporal; but the things which are not seen are eternal.

1 John 4:20
If a man say, I love God, and hateth his brother, he is a liar: for he that loveth not his brother whom he hath seen, how can he love God whom he hath not seen?

But the world is very much real, as God created man in it, bothers to fight for it, and will make another earth.

Revelation 20:4-6
And I saw thrones, and they sat upon them, and judgment was given unto them: and I saw the souls of them that were beheaded for the witness of Jesus, and for the word of God, and which had not worshipped the beast, neither his image, neither had received his mark upon their foreheads, or in their hands; and they lived and reigned with Christ a thousand years.
5But the rest of the dead lived not again until the thousand years were finished. This is the first resurrection.
6Blessed and holy is he that hath part in the first resurrection: on such the second death hath no power, but they shall be priests of God and of Christ, and shall reign with him a thousand years.

Revelation 21:1-5
And I saw a new heaven and a new earth: for the first heaven and the first earth were passed away; and there was no more sea.
2And I John saw the holy city, new Jerusalem, coming down from God out of heaven, prepared as a bride adorned for her husband.
3And I heard a great voice out of heaven saying, Behold, the tabernacle of God is with men, and he will dwell with them, and they shall be his people, and God himself shall be with them, and be their God.
4And God shall wipe away all tears from their eyes; and there shall be no more death, neither sorrow, nor crying, neither shall there be any more pain: for the former things are passed away.
5And he that sat upon the throne said, Behold, I make all things new. And he said unto me, Write: for these words are true and faithful.

>who am I to blurt it out to him
God can do this for you. The response to the Bible reveals the truth and someone that is saved will grow in the fruit of the Spirit, as he desires to grow closer to God. He won't be perfect, but he will respect the Bible.

Asking if he is ok lately and if he would like to hear the comforting words that you read in the Bible might be a good way to introduce the Bible into the equation, which will reveal where his heart is. Again, I have as of yet not had success with my methods, so perhaps they are not the greatest to restore friendship and bringing someone to Christ, but it is the best I can provide.

James 5:19-20
Brethren, if any of you do err from the truth, and one convert him;
20Let him know, that he which converteth the sinner from the error of his way shall save a soul from death, and shall hide a multitude of sins.

>>7311
>>7312
Thank you, for some reason I hadn't yet come across Elijah and Elisha, and will definitely refer to those verses in the letter to my friend.
The NIV church that he and his family visit is one that seems to operate on my friend's terms rather than God's, and it'll likely be one of his "security blankets" that I should be careful to not pull away, but rather let him slowly remove himself and on his own terms when introducing the more Biblically-accurate alternatives.
>The matrix belief I assume is the belief that the world is a simulation? Or perhaps it is the belief that the world is an illusion and the reality lies behind what can be see?
Yes, pretty much but also and more malevolently it's a simulated reality/existence/trap created by parasitic entities, and this artificial reality has limits to it that never exceed those of which the person living inside the artificial reality can handle.
(Personally, I believe that satan and his synagogue-of-satan/etc. minions are trying everything to counterfeit and replace God, using technology, psychology, pharmacology, electromagnetic radiation, media, fake religions/scripture/cults/culture, illness, addictions, alterations to the environment etc. - creating a type of world inside a world, which only they control - though I don't yet fully know how well supported this belief is Biblically.
I do know that satan is currently allowed to be god of this world, but I suppose even that will have its limits of what satan is allowed to do; a set of limits which can be removed by absorbing people into another world, a world only controlled by satan and precursor to hell when the body finally dies. For example, our true-world still has actual Christians passing through it, with the power to make real-world changes, whereas other people will need to specifically turn completely away from God's protection before being able to fully take part inside this fake-world being constructed. We can see fake-worlds inside communist regimes, but advances in and adoption of technology will make this fake-world seem perfectly normal and thus inescapable.)

My friend apparently cannot handle the newfound unknown harshness and dangers of the world that exists outside of the old and known harshness and dangers within the world/matrix that he's inside of. That's why I regret being so "arrogant" in assuming he'd simply see the deeper and even more disturbing reality behind a subject - assuming he'd move away from the dangers that he knows he can handle, rather than bringing them even closer to him, like he has. However, I don't actually know if my letter to him had that effect - for some reason, it feels like he had already made up his mind years before. The Corinthians verse sounds very suitable for his situation, because judging by his letter to me he's strongly holding on to what he can see, while at the same time trying to escape from it.

Thank you for taking time to read through my lengthy outpourings of thoughts and answering them. I've been pretty emotional lately due to recent deaths and illnesses of loved ones, and am myself feeling pretty weak and ineffective right now.

Gently quoting the real Jesus Christ (not the feel-good honey-coated censored NIV/etc.-type counterfeits) and Him being the ultimate authority, rather than satan (or satan's works), would be a positive non-confrontational approach for someone as hurting as my friend.

My thoughts on charisma: satan has boundless charisma (when it suits him), but only God has/is the truth. "One word of truth outweighs the world." Aleksandr Solzhenitsyn
I just need to speak from the heart, without traces of my own worries or intimidation like in my last letter.
Thank you, again.

>>7310
>>7313
Did you bring it to God?
Did you ask?
Did you wait and listen to what He says?

>>7314
Vital questions, and yes to all. I got the answer months ago, but have been too intimidated to go through with it and instead have spent most of my spare time and thoughts preparing, because I'm doubting my own abilities to handle such a serious situation properly after failing to save another dear friend of mine during a critical time - I was doing much better before that had happened.
That's why I was so open on here - in a way to gather the last bit of courage and get my shit together, but also add some final outside positive influence into the mix. Getting an answer and not going through with it is enough of a crime already, but now there are Earthly witnesses too. No more delays now.

what passages to study to help with online evangelism

[YouTube] World’s Smartest Man: Does God Exist? ✝️ [Embed]
^_^

As a result of a sudden inclination, I'll take the opportunity to opine that when dealing with divine/angelic names, the "El" part is a distinct suffix. This is to say, you have to say it right.
Its not Gaybreel its Gabra-El. Its not myychael its Micha-El, and so on. Protip!

Oh fine, Ill spell out the formula,...

Its prefix, middle and suffix.
Ga-bry(or 'brai' if you can do that sound)-el
Similarly, it's Mi-ka/cha/chai- El.
This can be applied to any El name, and trust me, they will appreciate the effort.

Catholicism is a very murky and complicated beast, but there are a number of things it gets especially right especially for an abrahamic tradition, among them:
The right, privilege, and in some cases duty to know and call upon the right forms of aid at the right time. They are here, and for a reason.
[YouTube] The Reason [SFM] [Embed]
Praise be that theres a pony vid of this song. I had no intention until right at the end of typing and then was like "OMG it would be hilarious/sausage to end with hoobastank" but then was like "is there a pony version tho?"

What was the cause of Lucifer's jealousy?

>>8287
The limitless potential of mankind, and god's favor towards his ultimate creation.

>>8288
i was meaning more before that, his original fall from grace and becomming a fallen angel

>>8289
His fall from grace was his own hubris, and jealousy of Adam for the reasons stated above. He was among the wisest angels, but unlike Adam, his mind was already concluded and not capable of learning or growing wiser, so his arrogance was infinite.

There's probably a clearer scripture-based answer. I'll stop with my non-canon conjecture and let OP take it from here.

>>8287
Lucifer is a curious case. Favored in every way, excepting free will.
>>8290
I disagree. Lucifer is/was a device intended for a specific function. His story is almost a cautionary tale about things being used in their specific context and not out of. His fall is a result of being placed in circumstances well outside his original parameters/programming.

>>8292
The idea that Lucifer was given everything SHORT of free will is essential to the story. Everything he did was compulsory and given to his position and standing. He is not said to have had a choice.

>>8292
>>8294
*thinking*
So unlike humanity, Lucifer and the angels lack free will? Im trying to understand it.. like lack of agency to change their own path and he felt that he deserved to have free will even if this was against god's intentions and plan?

>>8295
I'm pretty sure that the fact that Lucifer and co lacked free will is an integral element to the story. Yes, Lucifer's first claim of "fault" was that he wasn't given free will, while man was.
Lucifer did what he was programmed to do

>>8287
>What was the cause of Lucifer's jealousy?
According to the Bible, he's the ruler of this world, but for a period of time. So it looks like he doesn't take that kindly.

>>8297
While willing to engage the argument, it seems a clear-cut case of being denied the ability to make a choice. Dead to rights, in a manner of speaking

So then.
I made a promise, and I keep my promises. And to that end,...

We begin the revival of this thread with Ecclesiastes. Why? Cuz like me he's a faggot who starts to think there's a better way maybe.

Aptly sitting just AFTER proverbs, Ecclesiastes is my favorite book, fight me irl.
>is there anything of which can be said "This is new"
well, occidentally speaking, mlp DID just win a 3rd star, but thats also why we're here so I'll stfu,....

>>8312
<Yer not supposed to commentate a fookin bible study ye git
Get fucked, we shitpost in this bitch! Where was I? Ah yes
Before God, ALL things are vain and dross. Thats the part I liked. Oh, the part about "If God does exist, then one does themselves a service by abiding his rules", but that's secondary. The first rule is that before God, all things of man and even existence are vanity.

I phrased that wrong.
"Even if God DOESN'T exist, one does themselves a favor by abiding his laws. This is because man is insufficient, and incapable of proper self-determination. Oh it LOOKS like man can self-determinate, but that's a lie. That is the vanity before god. Ergo, even in the absence of God - which we will discuss eventually - abiding by God's rules will lead one to a better experience than they would see otherwise.

>>8312
Ecclesiastes is pretty good because it is written by the Preacher, which throughout the text seems to describe the life of Solomon. When you put the text in this context, you gain an additional appreciation that someone that not only had unimaginable wealth but also had wisdom that was gifted by God and still ended up with a life of regrets.

This means that the presence of wisdom, possessions, and even blessings from God does not prevent someone from making choices that are vanity.
>>8314
This is an important message that is delivered from the author which was surrounded by everything he could want. If there was anything he desired, he could demand it and receive it. Chapter 2 especially goes over this, saying that he made great works and did not withhold himself from anything he desired. This lead him to hating his life and everything he did. But he ends by saying to remember your Creator in the days of your youth, meaning to live for God, because God shall bring every work into judgement, with every secret thing, whether it be good, or whether it be evil.

>>8316
The book does not deny the existence of God, but it is written so that even if one does deny God, perhaps by listening to this advice you can avoid living for excess because it is folly. His advice to such a person is whatsoever thy hand findest to do, do it with thy might; for there is no work, nor device, nor knowledge, nor wisdom, in the grave, whither thou goest.

The Preacher definitely sends a message that on the surface is contradictory, all is vanity but work hard at it. It is a contradiction that is only solved with the presence of the Creator that will judge what you do and how you did it. All is vanity, but your purpose is in working with that which you are given. If there is no God, there is no purpose to existence, destined to be erased with time. Either way, the advice does stand, to not seek vanity but to work well with what you have.

>>8317
>The book does not deny the existence of God
Agreed, I'm just emphasizing that the author leaves it open to the "God doesn't exist" crowd, with a cautionary of "It doesnt matter, do it you faggot"

>>3411
Hi OP, I believe this thread is anti-White. Let me explain.
Christianity calls my ancestors "savages" and our Gods "mythology", destroyed our temples and told us to be meek and worship our ancient enemy's god.

>>8320
Stop spoiling the ending.

>>8321
I can plaster this thread with proof of christianity being a jewish sect and the "savior", a rabbi. But I don't want to shit on OP's bread.
I'll drop the following and see what OP has to say.

Cited from a SS booklet observes the strange alliance between Judaism and Christianity:
Schwarz, Dieter Angriff Auf Die Nationalsozialistische Weltanschauung (1936)
https://archive.org/details/schwarz-dieter-angriff-auf-die-nationalsozialistische-weltanschauung-1936-46-s.-scan-fraktur/page/26/mode/2up

- “Christianity has to bring together all people, whether they be Negroes or whites, into one great family of God. […] This sets the tone for the unification of two international forces: Judaism and political Catholicism. Zionist Jews agree with Pope that National Socialism was a scourge: In December 1934, the Viennese Franciscan Father Zyrill Fifher gave a lecture in the ring of the Old Men’s Associations of the Zionist Association in Vienna, in which he stated that National Socialism was not just a heresy, as the Pope said, but a whip and scourge used by the peoples themselves.” (Pg. 26).

>>8322
I feel like paganism is like atheism. It only really exist as a counterpoint to Christianity. Like, why don't you just do
>I can plaster this thread with proof of christianity being a jewish sect and the "savior", a rabbi. But I don't want to shit on OP's bread.
That in this (Let's be real, your own thread): >>8162 →
Paganism is more a culture of critique than thing of it's own.

>>8323
>That in this (Let's be real, your own thread): >>8162 → →
Point taken.
Nevertheless, Yahweh is a spirit that came from a burning bush (according to the bible) and is an abrahamic god, it has nothing to do with our European roots.

>>8324
>Point taken.
Thank you. ^^

We can obviously discuss differences and such but these debates always run out into pointless history debates were each debater has their own history book to recount events from. And either it's is Christianity Jewish? Or was Hitler pagan or Christian? Type questions that is the core of them.

It's never about now. Like, I for example want to preserve white people and you do too. Why should we be in conflict again? I like Christianity for it's philosophy and moral teachings.

>>8324
>Your other thread
Yes, nothing fucking came of it, in spite of all the prevalent "fuck abrahamism" which I would normally be in support of, except apparently paganism is only cool when "(you)" are available to shitpost about it? Not a good look tbh.

>>8325
Having said that I think you're perspective(s) >>8324
>>8326 has value and I wouldn't mind hearing more about it, and probably OP and others as well Maybe, like I don't know.^^. I think we need to step away from tribalism and be united as frens in our whiteness and face this incredibly hard questions of the mystery of existence itself by an open-mind and open-heart.

Though, perhaps not in this thread since it's kinda dedicated, and perhaps not in yours either, unless you want that I guess, since it's also dedicated but a new thread about comparing the pros and cons of the different religions in question along.

Just my two cents. I don't think you're breaking any rules, as far as I know of by bringing it up here either. Just if there's a big debate here, it kinda puts the focus on this debate rather than "ITT we discuss and study the bible."

>>8327
>I think we need to step away from tribalism
Not implying you're being tribalistic right now. This is just my general disposition for this subject matter.

>>8327
>annex your thread for a better discussion
As said recently, where do you think we are? Thats exactly what we do
And yes, there's plenty to criticize paganism about. That's kind of the rub, there's no tradition that has clean hands, and it's murky to try and find one's way without direct guidance - which is an issue in it's own right - but yes, we absolutely should get to that

>>8327
I think a theology and comparative religion thread would be nice. I attempted to spur discussion in the paganism thread, but to no avail.
New thread or no, what topics would you prefer to discuss?

>>8330
>I attempted to spur discussion in the paganism thread, but to no avail.
No wonder why. Paganism is dead in the West.

For today's bible study, we are going to begin (and likely not end) the book of Proverbs.
The idea behind this selection is that by starting with Ecclesiastes, we're establishing the underlying theory behind the moral framework the Bible offers, before getting into the gospels and all the rest.
For context, this is coming from one who has read the bible a few decades ago to in a comparative religion sense. The point wasn't trying to grasp the Bible, as much as identify what consistencies there were between it and the founding texts of many other traditions.
In this case, the intent IS to grasp the Bible, and OP (who has VASTLY more knowledge of Christendom) will be monitoring.

>>8346
It is hard to do a study of the whole book all at once, but if you would like, we can start at chapter one and see where that goes.

It begins in chapter one as such:
The proverbs of Solomon the son of David, king of Israel;
2To know wisdom and instruction; to perceive the words of understanding;
3To receive the instruction of wisdom, justice, and judgment, and equity;
4To give subtilty to the simple, to the young man knowledge and discretion.
5A wise man will hear, and will increase learning; and a man of understanding shall attain unto wise counsels:
6To understand a proverb, and the interpretation; the words of the wise, and their dark sayings.

We get an overview of the content that will follow throughout the book. The author is Solomon, a king in Israel, son of the famous David, and the king before the civil war that would consume Israel up until a few hundred years before Jesus would arrive. As such, I think it is important to view the context of Solomon.

I Kings 3:2-15
Only the people sacrificed in high places, because there was no house built unto the name of the LORD, until those days.
3And Solomon loved the LORD, walking in the statutes of David his father: only he sacrificed and burnt incense in high places.
4And the king went to Gibeon to sacrifice there; for that was the great high place: a thousand burnt offerings did Solomon offer upon that altar.
5In Gibeon the LORD appeared to Solomon in a dream by night: and God said, Ask what I shall give thee.
6And Solomon said, Thou hast shewed unto thy servant David my father great mercy, according as he walked before thee in truth, and in righteousness, and in uprightness of heart with thee; and thou hast kept for him this great kindness, that thou hast given him a son to sit on his throne, as it is this day.
7And now, O LORD my God, thou hast made thy servant king instead of David my father: and I am but a little child: I know not how to go out or come in.
8And thy servant is in the midst of thy people which thou hast chosen, a great people, that cannot be numbered nor counted for multitude.
9Give therefore thy servant an understanding heart to judge thy people, that I may discern between good and bad: for who is able to judge this thy so great a people?
10And the speech pleased the Lord, that Solomon had asked this thing.
11And God said unto him, Because thou hast asked this thing, and hast not asked for thyself long life; neither hast asked riches for thyself, nor hast asked the life of thine enemies; but hast asked for thyself understanding to discern judgment;
12Behold, I have done according to thy words: lo, I have given thee a wise and an understanding heart; so that there was none like thee before thee, neither after thee shall any arise like unto thee.
13And I have also given thee that which thou hast not asked, both riches, and honour: so that there shall not be any among the kings like unto thee all thy days.
14And if thou wilt walk in my ways, to keep my statutes and my commandments, as thy father David did walk, then I will lengthen thy days.
15And Solomon awoke; and, behold, it was a dream. And he came to Jerusalem, and stood before the ark of the covenant of the LORD, and offered up burnt offerings, and offered peace offerings, and made a feast to all his servants.

So, we find that Solomon begins his life as king by sacrificing to God at these things called high places. God is not a fan of this because the equivelent today is worshiping God in a universalist temple alongside all nationalities and religions. There were often various rituals and orgies going on around the place as well as was typical for different gods in the area. It is not something God enjoys because the worship of God occurs through relationship, truth, and trust.

Isaiah 1:9-21
Except the LORD of hosts had left unto us a very small remnant, we should have been as Sodom, and we should have been like unto Gomorrah.
10Hear the word of the LORD, ye rulers of Sodom; give ear unto the law of our God, ye people of Gomorrah.
11To what purpose is the multitude of your sacrifices unto me? saith the LORD: I am full of the burnt offerings of rams, and the fat of fed beasts; and I delight not in the blood of bullocks, or of lambs, or of he goats.
12When ye come to appear before me, who hath required this at your hand, to tread my courts?
13Bring no more vain oblations; incense is an abomination unto me; the new moons and sabbaths, the calling of assemblies, I cannot away with; it is iniquity, even the solemn meeting.
14Your new moons and your appointed feasts my soul hateth: they are a trouble unto me; I am weary to bear them.
15And when ye spread forth your hands, I will hide mine eyes from you: yea, when ye make many prayers, I will not hear: your hands are full of blood.
16Wash you, make you clean; put away the evil of your doings from before mine eyes; cease to do evil;
17Learn to do well; seek judgment, relieve the oppressed, judge the fatherless, plead for the widow.
18Come now, and let us reason together, saith the LORD: though your sins be as scarlet, they shall be as white as snow; though they be red like crimson, they shall be as wool.
19If ye be willing and obedient, ye shall eat the good of the land:
20But if ye refuse and rebel, ye shall be devoured with the sword: for the mouth of the LORD hath spoken it.
21How is the faithful city become an harlot! it was full of judgment; righteousness lodged in it; but now murderers.

>>8348
From this, we see that God will not accept any token of worship in the presence of evil. You cannot bribe God into liking you, buy passes for wrongdoing, trade your way into blessing, or even claim racial or spiritual priority or immunity. God will only accept those that repent of evil and obey Him. This is reinforced in David’s writing as well.

Psalms 51:14-19
Deliver me from bloodguiltiness, O God, thou God of my salvation: and my tongue shall sing aloud of thy righteousness.
15O Lord, open thou my lips; and my mouth shall shew forth thy praise.
16For thou desirest not sacrifice; else would I give it: thou delightest not in burnt offering.
17The sacrifices of God are a broken spirit: a broken and a contrite heart, O God, thou wilt not despise.
18Do good in thy good pleasure unto Zion: build thou the walls of Jerusalem.
19Then shalt thou be pleased with the sacrifices of righteousness, with burnt offering and whole burnt offering: then shall they offer bullocks upon thine altar.

God has no desire to witness the shedding of blood or the burning of offerings alone. The broken spirit is one that recognizes that man can’t please God through our material possession. Why did God request these things to begin with if He doesn’t like it? It is because it represents the state of the heart and what was to come. The animal is innocent of your wrong, purposely demanded to be without any blemish or fault. It takes your place in punishment. This is what clicks when you do this. It does not appease God; it brings you to a point where you understand something. In addition, the act costs you financially. You gave away the best of what you had to God, representing that you care about God more than what you can gain in the world.

This is reflected in how Jesus would be the ultimate sacrifice, where God does the same thing in the sacrificial image. Jesus gives the best of what can be given, Himself, God’s only begotten Son, for the purpose of showing His love towards you. He is innocent of the rebellion that is sin yet takes full responsibility and punishment for it. In this act, God ends sacrifice as well, as the mystery is revealed, the truth that you worship God in is that He is the blood that removes sin.

John 4:21-26
Jesus saith unto her, Woman, believe me, the hour cometh, when ye shall neither in this mountain, nor yet at Jerusalem, worship the Father.
22Ye worship ye know not what: we know what we worship: for salvation is of the Jews.
23But the hour cometh, and now is, when the true worshippers shall worship the Father in spirit and in truth: for the Father seeketh such to worship him.
24God is a Spirit: and they that worship him must worship him in spirit and in truth.
25The woman saith unto him, I know that Messias cometh, which is called Christ: when he is come, he will tell us all things.
26Jesus saith unto her, I that speak unto thee am he.

Jesus states that God will not be worshiped in a specific temple or mountain or city or facing a direction. These were done for the purpose of teaching, fulfilling promises and prophecies, and to remove the people from traditions that counteract the worship of God. All of this reflects on why God does not like the high places that Solomon was at. Now we see the importance of Solomon’s Temple, showing that Solomon desired to remove himself from universalism and make a place where he can worship God apart from what distracts from and rejects God. This reflects the wisdom that Solomon was given.

However, things were far from perfect with Solomon. He abused his power and riches to work against his wisdom and live a life of excess and lust. He did not value what was given, which also connects to how Solomon’s Temple was not the perfect form of worship, destined to be destroyed, replaced with a downgrade, have Jesus say that the worship at it is not necessary, and destroyed a second time.

All of that to set up who we are dealing with here: someone who wants us to do better than he did, using the tools he had with the wisdom he was both gifted and acquired throughout his life. He wants to see that we understand the proverbs, interpret them correctly, increase in learning, and gain wise counsel.

You may also notice that certain language exists in this passage that might raise a few eyebrows.

Proverbs 1:3
To receive the instruction of wisdom, justice, and judgment, and equity;

Some of this is recognized as subversive language today. By focusing on justice and equity, along with a helping of redefining terms, the religion of today builds a foundation of destructive behavior. The modern acolyte of this system will demand justice as righting wrongs, real and imagined, and equity as making equal outcomes or otherwise treat others as equal. The Bible specifically lists out the four of them because they work together to arrive at the correct conclusion.

Wisdom is the experience and understanding of truth. This balances equity in that you should treat others fairly. The Bible never equates the fair treatment of others, often depicted as not charging usury and not cheating balances and payments, to modern racial equality. Though the Bible encourages kindness to other races and allows for shared gathering, worship, outreach, and cooperation, it has active discouragements towards racial unity and globalism. But that is a topic for another lesson.

>>8349
Judgement and justice are easily paired as well, as this is often the bane of any modern religion. Judgement is seen as an inherent evil, often quick to bring up a verse from the Bible.

Matthew 7:1
Judge not, that ye be not judged.

And if the passage stopped there, they might have pointed out a contradiction. However, the verse reads as such:

Matthew 7:1
Judge not, that ye be not judged.
2For with what judgment ye judge, ye shall be judged: and with what measure ye mete, it shall be measured to you again.
3And why beholdest thou the mote that is in thy brother's eye, but considerest not the beam that is in thine own eye?
4Or how wilt thou say to thy brother, Let me pull out the mote out of thine eye; and, behold, a beam is in thine own eye?
5Thou hypocrite, first cast out the beam out of thine own eye; and then shalt thou see clearly to cast out the mote out of thy brother's eye.

This passage does not deny all judgement. It is saying that you will be measured by the same rules that you apply in your own judgement. Basically, don’t throw rocks in glass houses. However, that is exactly what Solomon wants the reader to be able to rightly do by studying wisdom. The world would fall apart if it could never judge and Jesus did not say to never judge, only that it people were far too eager and did not consider their own guilt in accusations. If you rightly apply what you learn, you will not have to fear judgement that will be reflected back at you. The hope is that you will removed the beam from your own eye and be able to provide judgement and justice.

This brings us to our first piece of wisdom. It took quite a bit to even get this far, but the context is necessary to appreciate what is being talked about.
Proverbs 1:7
The fear of the LORD is the beginning of knowledge: but fools despise wisdom and instruction.

Pretty simple, but effective at explaining what the response to this book will be. To even begin with this knowledge, you need to fear the Lord. If you don’t, you will despise the wisdom and instruction given in throughout. The fear of the Lord is a phrase often repeated throughout the Bible. The fear is both reverence and standard fear, the kind you might feel when your parents tell you to do something and you rebel. That fear isn’t only the dread of punishment that will result, but it stems from a love that you have for the person. You value them being pleased and them being the opposite makes you fearful, seeking a way to restore the relationship. If you don’t have this fear, this love, this reverence, you will despise what will come later in the book.

Proverbs 1:8-9
My son, hear the instruction of thy father, and forsake not the law of thy mother:
9For they shall be an ornament of grace unto thy head, and chains about thy neck.

This message is also repeated throughout the Bible. As the relationship that God has with us and the relationship of the Father and the Son is understood through family, quite literally taking those names of Father and Son to describe themselves, it is important to have an understanding of the correct family relationship. We live an in era where it is getting more common to have a broken family or a family that does not love each other than one that is correctly functioning, which can make this message harder than it should be. Obedience towards the family, like obedience to the government does not trump obedience to God, as directly stated.

Acts 5:24-33
Now when the high priest and the captain of the temple and the chief priests heard these things, they doubted of them whereunto this would grow.
25Then came one and told them, saying, Behold, the men whom ye put in prison are standing in the temple, and teaching the people.
26Then went the captain with the officers, and brought them without violence: for they feared the people, lest they should have been stoned.
27And when they had brought them, they set them before the council: and the high priest asked them,
28Saying, Did not we straitly command you that ye should not teach in this name? and, behold, ye have filled Jerusalem with your doctrine, and intend to bring this man's blood upon us.
29Then Peter and the other apostles answered and said, We ought to obey God rather than men.
30The God of our fathers raised up Jesus, whom ye slew and hanged on a tree.
31Him hath God exalted with his right hand to be a Prince and a Saviour, for to give repentance to Israel, and forgiveness of sins.
32And we are his witnesses of these things; and so is also the Holy Ghost, whom God hath given to them that obey him.
33When they heard that, they were cut to the heart, and took counsel to slay them.

>>8350
So, the context is the instruction of a parent that is aligned with what God allows, obedience is required. God values the relationship that you have with your family as it will help you understand the relationship that God is seeking with you. The broken family is something that God hates, in cheating, abuse, and otherwise preventing a child from having this relationship be sound and point towards God. God directly commands parents love each other and their children, commands guiding them correctly, not driving them to anger, and being an example for them not just in life but in worship as well.

Colossians 3:17-21
And whatsoever ye do in word or deed, do all in the name of the Lord Jesus, giving thanks to God and the Father by him.
18Wives, submit yourselves unto your own husbands, as it is fit in the Lord.
19Husbands, love your wives, and be not bitter against them.
20Children, obey your parents in all things: for this is well pleasing unto the Lord.
21Fathers, provoke not your children to anger, lest they be discouraged.
22Servants, obey in all things your masters according to the flesh; not with eyeservice, as menpleasers; but in singleness of heart, fearing God:
23And whatsoever ye do, do it heartily, as to the Lord, and not unto men;
24Knowing that of the Lord ye shall receive the reward of the inheritance: for ye serve the Lord Christ.
25But he that doeth wrong shall receive for the wrong which he hath done: and there is no respect of persons.

There is much more just in this chapter alone, but it is late for me. I will stop back by later and pick back up from there and answer questions the best I can.

>>8348
>>8349
>>8350
>>8351
Lovely. And very sanctimonious, the kind of sanctimoniousness that leads some people to be like "Nah, not for me."

For the edging neophyte, allow me a different perspective (and who the fuck cares who wrote it for now, lets judge the merit of his words and go from there):
"To know wisdom and instruction; to perceive the words of understanding;
To receive the instruction of wisdom, justice, and judgment, and equity;
To give subtilty to the simple, to the young man knowledge and discretion.
A wise man will hear, and will increase learning; and a man of understanding shall attain unto wise counsels:
To understand a proverb, and the interpretation; the words of the wise, and their dark sayings."

Plausible enough, its the same sorts of words echoed by any legitimate discipline; Perhaps because they come from the same source, but doubtful given the time lapse. In any case,... oh for fucks sake, can we stick to Proverbs? Skipping a bit,...
>This brings us to our first piece of wisdom. It took quite a bit to even get this far, but the context is necessary to appreciate what is being talked about.
Unnecessarily so, some might argue, if one wishes to win the audience. Is this Bible 101 or 401?
"The fear of the LORD is the beginning of knowledge: but fools despise wisdom and instruction.
My son, hear the instruction of thy father, and forsake not the law of thy mother:
For they shall be an ornament of grace unto thy head, and chains about thy neck."

I agree with the assessment with the first part. The second part is what is subject to debate. Is one to take it in a literal sense? Because no, and we can go into that if you want.
The concept of "cranial adornments" and "chains (onerous) around my neck" are not welcome ones. These are the clear language of bondage. Appreciating that perception and experience depends on individual context, David (in this bit) does NOT validate his point on a holistic scale. Yes, he goes on to attempt to in following chapters; attempt to being the operative phrase, and he will describe another type of bondage.
Which brings us(me) to the "Fear of the Lord" part. When describing what I conceptualize as the Lord, there IS no fear. There is only knowledge of what is, and a respect of what could become of me if I foolishly subject myself to it. And the general guidelines (with a few exceptions, addendums, and clarifications) are the same (or they seem so so far). So, while not intending to discourage the "now turn to chapter this" and then "and now chapter that", I will stick to one book.

Apologies OP, fell asleep. Will gather thoughts and post analysis in a bit

>>8352
>oh for fucks sake, can we stick to Proverbs? Skipping a bit,...
As I said, the context is important. Say you had zero context for who Solomon is. It is important to realize he isn't some random king or just a son of a famous king. His experience is unique to present the content of this book because of his wisdom and what is to follow. His entire kingdom implodes into civil war because the contents of what he writes is not headed, because his sons and his people do not have the fear of the Lord.

>Unnecessarily so, some might argue, if one wishes to win the audience. Is this Bible 101 or 401?
I am not seeking to win an audience. This is the Bible study thread, not the Bible conversion thread. To study the Bible, you have to look into other passages and other books of the Bible to gain context for what is said.

II Timothy 3:14-17
But continue thou in the things which thou hast learned and hast been assured of, knowing of whom thou hast learned them;
15And that from a child thou hast known the holy scriptures, which are able to make thee wise unto salvation through faith which is in Christ Jesus.
16All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness:
17That the man of God may be perfect, throughly furnished unto all good works.

The reason for this is to develop a coherent and standardized translation and interpretation. The Bible does not allow personal interpretations that deviate from the objective truth that is presented.

II Peter 1:19-21
We have also a more sure word of prophecy; whereunto ye do well that ye take heed, as unto a light that shineth in a dark place, until the day dawn, and the day star arise in your hearts:
20Knowing this first, that no prophecy of the scripture is of any private interpretation.
21For the prophecy came not in old time by the will of man: but holy men of God spake as they were moved by the Holy Ghost.

>Is one to take it in a literal sense? Because no, and we can go into that if you want.
I'm not sure why you think this is literal except by misunderstanding what a literal interpretation of the Scripture means. Not every single sentence will be literal because it will indicate when it is making use of imagery. For instance, this passage says to hear instruction and don't forsake law. These will be an ornament and chains. This is a picture of what these things will be like to you. Understanding this is figurative language does not mean that the literal sense is lost, because to understand this passage, you do have to take the instruction and law literally and understand they will be like ornaments and chains. A figurative interpretation is not always to be avoided when interpreting literally.

Now, it is important to understand what ornaments and chains are, because as you mention:
>The concept of "cranial adornments" and "chains (onerous) around my neck" are not welcome ones.
I don't see why the ornament on your head is not welcome as it is saying that when you follow righteous instruction from your father and the righteous law of your mother, you will end up standing out among those that are wild, reckless, and rebellious. It will be as if you have a fancy ornament on your head, a symbol of status and recognition of value.

The chains are something I can understand more of a problem with. This one has two interpretative angles, both of which have some value. First, chains around the neck when paired with head ornaments would picture necklaces, more status symbols and showing value. However, I do see more of a pointing towards chains as something that will lock you in place. This is not always a bad thing as something that is wild, rebellious, and otherwise needs to be kept stationary within bounds needs a chain.

We see chains as an objective evil because of the connection with the concept that all slavery is evil. Thus, when the Bible has language that stated things in terms of slavery and being kept from going too far, our minds naturally categorize these concepts with evil.
>These are the clear language of bondage.
One is. I don't get what you are seeing with the head ornaments one. They did live next to Egypt and Babylon. Fancy head pieces were all the rage back in the day.
>Appreciating that perception and experience depends on individual context, David (in this bit) does NOT validate his point on a holistic scale.
First off, it is Solomon writing here. This is why I went over context of who was writing.
Second, this is why context from the rest of the Bible adding to what is written is important. This one verse does not provide the evidence you desire, but it is true on its own. This is why Solomon states that if you don't have a fear of the Lord, you will reject what is stated. If you don't have a relationship with God, which means you have a foundation in understanding who He is and what He wants which is found in context of the whole Bible, you will not see what is stated as true.

>Yes, he goes on to attempt to in following chapters; attempt to being the operative phrase, and he will describe another type of bondage.
Bondage is a good thing when it is done both correctly by the bonder and for the right purpose towards the bonded. For instance, bolting something to the ground is objectively a good thing when the item is bonded correctly to the ground, the purpose of the bonding is right such as making sure a table does not fall over when expected pressure is applied, and that the bonder does it rightly, in that there is no evil intent in the bonding of something to the ground.

This is brought up throughout the Bible. I even referenced one instance already.
Colossians 3:22
Servants, obey in all things your masters according to the flesh; not with eyeservice, as menpleasers; but in singleness of heart, fearing God:

God wants servants, slaves to a master, to obey all thing not just to appear obedience, not just to please someone, but do so because you fear God.

>>8355
The concept of both good and evil slavery is something that eludes the modern era. Both good and bad slavery exists within the Bible.

Deuteronomy 26:6-8
And the Egyptians evil entreated us, and afflicted us, and laid upon us hard bondage:
7And when we cried unto the LORD God of our fathers, the LORD heard our voice, and looked on our affliction, and our labour, and our oppression:
8And the LORD brought us forth out of Egypt with a mighty hand, and with an outstretched arm, and with great terribleness, and with signs, and with wonders:

Romans 6:14-18
For sin shall not have dominion over you: for ye are not under the law, but under grace.
15What then? shall we sin, because we are not under the law, but under grace? God forbid.
16Know ye not, that to whom ye yield yourselves servants to obey, his servants ye are to whom ye obey; whether of sin unto death, or of obedience unto righteousness?
17But God be thanked, that ye were the servants of sin, but ye have obeyed from the heart that form of doctrine which was delivered you.
18Being then made free from sin, ye became the servants of righteousness.

God makes no attempt to hide the truth that there is no limitless freedom in this world. Everything that man can do is limited at best, chained to one thing or another. Though many people will state that they are free, and any bondage would be bad, they live a life that proves the opposite to be true. There is either a slavery to sin, which the world and the flesh believe to be freedom while providing chains towards destructive behavior, or a slavery towards God which is stated to be true freedom, chained to what is good and not to what destroys. One that serves himself will find the chains do not allow for freedom from ever increasing sin.

The evidence for this can be found quite simply in the sexual perversion that is allowed. It began with the flawed argument that in a lack of active harm, it should be allowed. And even though there are pushes against it from those that now notice harm, it will remain, because there is no argument against the core of the perversion. People are chained to it because to say there is a fundamental problem with it comes from a moral foundation that can demand being chained away from it, which is actual freedom. If allowing and encouraging evil and being ok with the extinguishing of good is freedom, I want no part in it.

John 8:31-47
Then said Jesus to those Jews which believed on him, If ye continue in my word, then are ye my disciples indeed;
32And ye shall know the truth, and the truth shall make you free.
33They answered him, We be Abraham's seed, and were never in bondage to any man: how sayest thou, Ye shall be made free?
34Jesus answered them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, Whosoever committeth sin is the servant of sin.
35And the servant abideth not in the house for ever: but the Son abideth ever.
36If the Son therefore shall make you free, ye shall be free indeed.
37I know that ye are Abraham's seed; but ye seek to kill me, because my word hath no place in you.
38I speak that which I have seen with my Father: and ye do that which ye have seen with your father.
39They answered and said unto him, Abraham is our father. Jesus saith unto them, If ye were Abraham's children, ye would do the works of Abraham.
40But now ye seek to kill me, a man that hath told you the truth, which I have heard of God: this did not Abraham.
41Ye do the deeds of your father. Then said they to him, We be not born of fornication; we have one Father, even God.
42Jesus said unto them, If God were your Father, ye would love me: for I proceeded forth and came from God; neither came I of myself, but he sent me.
43Why do ye not understand my speech? even because ye cannot hear my word.
44Ye are of your father the devil, and the lusts of your father ye will do. He was a murderer from the beginning, and abode not in the truth, because there is no truth in him. When he speaketh a lie, he speaketh of his own: for he is a liar, and the father of it.
45And because I tell you the truth, ye believe me not.
46Which of you convinceth me of sin? And if I say the truth, why do ye not believe me?
47He that is of God heareth God's words: ye therefore hear them not, because ye are not of God.

So, all of this to explain the chain statement. I don’t mind if the verse refers to a chain that keeps on in place, because the place that a parent ought to keep a child is away from evil and around Christ. This is true freedom.

>>8356
Psalms 127:3-5
Lo, children are an heritage of the LORD: and the fruit of the womb is his reward.
4As arrows are in the hand of a mighty man; so are children of the youth.
5Happy is the man that hath his quiver full of them: they shall not be ashamed, but they shall speak with the enemies in the gate.

Proverbs 22:6
Train up a child in the way he should go: and when he is old, he will not depart from it.

The image that the Bible is trying to show is that a parent guides a child like an arrow. The best outcome is that the child does not swerve off target. You want the arrow to fly true, not departing from what is right. Thus, a chain of restraint is fine in this context.

>When describing what I conceptualize as the Lord, there IS no fear.
I mean no offense, but what you conceptualize is irrelevant. God is alive and is not controlled by the thoughts and expectations of others.

Exodus 3:13-14
And Moses said unto God, Behold, when I come unto the children of Israel, and shall say unto them, The God of your fathers hath sent me unto you; and they shall say to me, What is his name? what shall I say unto them?
14And God said unto Moses, I AM THAT I AM: and he said, Thus shalt thou say unto the children of Israel, I AM hath sent me unto you.

Mark 12:18-27
Then come unto him the Sadducees, which say there is no resurrection; and they asked him, saying,
19Master, Moses wrote unto us, If a man's brother die, and leave his wife behind him, and leave no children, that his brother should take his wife, and raise up seed unto his brother.
20Now there were seven brethren: and the first took a wife, and dying left no seed.
21And the second took her, and died, neither left he any seed: and the third likewise.
22And the seven had her, and left no seed: last of all the woman died also.
23In the resurrection therefore, when they shall rise, whose wife shall she be of them? for the seven had her to wife.
24And Jesus answering said unto them, Do ye not therefore err, because ye know not the scriptures, neither the power of God?
25For when they shall rise from the dead, they neither marry, nor are given in marriage; but are as the angels which are in heaven.
26And as touching the dead, that they rise: have ye not read in the book of Moses, how in the bush God spake unto him, saying, I am the God of Abraham, and the God of Isaac, and the God of Jacob?
27He is not the God of the dead, but the God of the living: ye therefore do greatly err.

I Thessalonians 1:8-9
For from you sounded out the word of the Lord not only in Macedonia and Achaia, but also in every place your faith to God-ward is spread abroad; so that we need not to speak any thing.
9For they themselves shew of us what manner of entering in we had unto you, and how ye turned to God from idols to serve the living and true God;

So, when the Bible says that a fear of God exists, it exists regardless of your image of God that you created.
>There is only knowledge of what is, and a respect of what could become of me if I foolishly subject myself to it.
Knowledge is a good start, but relationship is the goal, not simply knowing something to be so.
>So, while not intending to discourage the "now turn to chapter this" and then "and now chapter that", I will stick to one book.
Though I can understand wanting to stay in one book for simplicity’s sake, it is simply not possible. I will not be able to reference why Solomon writes as he does if I don’t reference other Scripture passages. This Scripture is informing us why what is stated is true. If you choose to ignore what is stated as profitable for doctrine, reproof, correction, and instruction, you will be left with your own reason. This is not how the Bible works. Every statement that I make needs to be backed up with Bible references first and reason second. To look at each verse and determine if it sounds good to me or not will prevent the truth from being revealed that it is correct by nature of it reflecting God’s Word elsewhere.

More Proverbs in a bit. I hope you will stick around for it.

Please pardon my absence of comment, I'm still going through proverbs

>>8355
If it is desired to discuss Solomon, then we must apply proper context. Solomon was a metaphysician who had the Authority to command what was contemporaneously referred to as Daemon, which can be said to include Angels, Demons, Devils, Djinn, and Fay. Somehow, one assumes a lack of interest in having that discussion ITT.

>>8387
Commanding daemons is not discussed in Biblical text. If you have a text that suggests this, please provide it so I can break it down.

The Bible never refers to all spiritual beings as daemons. It also only mentions the existence of angels and demons with demons being angels but fallen due to joining forces with Satan in an attempted coup of heaven. The Bible uses demons and devils interchangeably because all demons mimic the nature of Satan, referred to as the devil. Djinn and Fay are not mentioned in the Bible, so I can't comment on them without a definition that is presented so I can refer to Biblical text and show what does and does not line up.

The term metaphysician is also not mentioned in the Bible, so a definition would also be appreciated there as well. Solomon refers to himself as a king and a preacher. If a metaphysician is something else, Solomon fails to identify himself as such and also does not mention any ability to control any spiritual beings, though casting out demons was at least partially understood by the time Jesus was around. The disciples are commanded to cast out demons and in one instance they fail to and Jesus has to correct their error.

Matthew 17:14-21
And when they were come to the multitude, there came to him a certain man, kneeling down to him, and saying,
15Lord, have mercy on my son: for he is lunatick, and sore vexed: for ofttimes he falleth into the fire, and oft into the water.
16And I brought him to thy disciples, and they could not cure him.
17Then Jesus answered and said, O faithless and perverse generation, how long shall I be with you? how long shall I suffer you? bring him hither to me.
18And Jesus rebuked the devil; and he departed out of him: and the child was cured from that very hour.
19Then came the disciples to Jesus apart, and said, Why could not we cast him out?
20And Jesus said unto them, Because of your unbelief: for verily I say unto you, If ye have faith as a grain of mustard seed, ye shall say unto this mountain, Remove hence to yonder place; and it shall remove; and nothing shall be impossible unto you.
21Howbeit this kind goeth not out but by prayer and fasting.

Mark 9:14-29
And when he came to his disciples, he saw a great multitude about them, and the scribes questioning with them.
15And straightway all the people, when they beheld him, were greatly amazed, and running to him saluted him.
16And he asked the scribes, What question ye with them?
17And one of the multitude answered and said, Master, I have brought unto thee my son, which hath a dumb spirit;
18And wheresoever he taketh him, he teareth him: and he foameth, and gnasheth with his teeth, and pineth away: and I spake to thy disciples that they should cast him out; and they could not.
19He answereth him, and saith, O faithless generation, how long shall I be with you? how long shall I suffer you? bring him unto me.
20And they brought him unto him: and when he saw him, straightway the spirit tare him; and he fell on the ground, and wallowed foaming.
21And he asked his father, How long is it ago since this came unto him? And he said, Of a child.
22And ofttimes it hath cast him into the fire, and into the waters, to destroy him: but if thou canst do any thing, have compassion on us, and help us.
23Jesus said unto him, If thou canst believe, all things are possible to him that believeth.
24And straightway the father of the child cried out, and said with tears, Lord, I believe; help thou mine unbelief.
25When Jesus saw that the people came running together, he rebuked the foul spirit, saying unto him, Thou dumb and deaf spirit, I charge thee, come out of him, and enter no more into him.
26And the spirit cried, and rent him sore, and came out of him: and he was as one dead; insomuch that many said, He is dead.
27But Jesus took him by the hand, and lifted him up; and he arose.
28And when he was come into the house, his disciples asked him privately, Why could not we cast him out?
29And he said unto them, This kind can come forth by nothing, but by prayer and fasting.

So, if it is believed that Solomon could cast out a demon, I could see it being the case. As for making them do his will, this is unlikely because it is never shown in the Bible that any angel or demon will obey anything other than the command to leave. Angels are even depicted as standing in the way of things, such as the Garden of Eden, and preventing humanity to move past. This suggests they do not obey commands as their orders come from a higher authority.

>>8389
I didn't say "do his will", I said "command"; Jesus is attributed to display the same (or comparable) Authority. Metaphysicist (I said Metaphysician out of habit, they're slightly different) is one who is scient (or knowledgeable) in the hidden signs and secrets of magic; the ones that a certain faction of angels fell into ignominy for sharing.
If you are unfamiliar with the Key of Solomon, I'll be happy to provide resources.

>>8389
Point of emphasis, while I appreciate that you religious fags LOVE to get all sanctimonious about what you perceive individuals to have been, when SOME people read "Bible study" they think "I'm gonna read, study, and think about what is written in the bible". What they AREN'T signing up for is page after page of additional reading that ostensibly is A. true and B. contributes to the comprehension of the material which it doesn't, it only contributes to the degree of fascination of the reader.

Protip: leave the sanctimoniousness for the 301 lessons, this is 101. Or isn't it? Am I in the wrong room?

>>8390
I believe I have heard about something similar to the Key of Solomon. What I remember is an item that described Solmon as what you refer to, but I do need resources to compare or an explanation from you to better tell me what I need to line up with Scripture.

As for hidden signs and magic, Solomon was stated as being wise, but it doesn't state he knew magic. This would have likely been said because magic is controversial in the Bible to say the least. Those that consult magicians are noted so I doubt that Solomon being a magician himself would not get some mention within the text, especially when detailing the sins that he confesses to having and wanting people to choose another path.

>Jesus is attributed to display the same ((or comparable) Authority
I really would like a clarification on this.

>>8391
>when SOME people read "Bible study" they think "I'm gonna read, study, and think about what is written in the bible"
Is that not what I am doing?
>What they AREN'T signing up for is page after page of additional reading that ostensibly is A. true and B. contributes to the comprehension of the material which it doesn't, it only contributes to the degree of fascination of the reader.
The page after page of additional reading is designed to explain what you are reading, which is how you study and think about what you read.

Think about like this. If I tell you 1+1=2, you can either accept this as true or study this equation. When you study the equation, you need details to show you why 1+1=2. My references are like grabbing one apple and another and putting them together, then grabbing an orange and another and putting them together, and so on. This shows the pattern that will allow you to see why 1+1=2. If I just say "Solomon was smart and this passage is correct because you read it", it isn't really a study.

>leave the sanctimoniousness for the 301 lessons
I am not intending to. I am trying to provide sources and why I am thinking as I am. When I say Jesus can cast out demons and has specific information to share about that, I show the source for that. I don't just say these things exist and trust me that it is right.

>this is 101. Or isn't it? Am I in the wrong room?
It is 101 and 301. The problem is that Proverbs is a bit advanced because it isn't a good starting point without a bit of understanding about why this guy wants to write about smart stuff. Discussing angels and demons is even more advanced and take far more references and logical debate to get to a satisfying answer instead of just an opinion based on my feelings. If you want 101, we might start off at the Gospels or Genesis because those are easier to start with and not get lost in too many details to get started with, even if I could.

Hey everyone is been a long time.
Does a person need the interconnected links between works, yes and able to stand alone.
With the Bible as a library of a love song there's greater context with all works together in the way the author intends.
Point being someone to help read is needed, ie The Holy Ghost. Which is possible via Jesus and his spilt blood.
Else it's the folly of the garden of Eden and the turning away from the one who loves the most.
Solomon shows wisdom his relationship with God (at the beginning of the reign) and then assuming his own wisdom is sufficiant throws God away for corrupted reality pillars of might (money, slaves, women, politicking, so called other gods, weapons, army ect.). Which is part of a recurring theme: substituting our Father leads to fucking around and the finding out.
The starting point to bootstrap into fully armored and equiped is the all accounts of the Good News.
So Romans is the start to be equiped with the lit lamp.
The OT shows rehabilitation steps and proofs of what does and doesn't work while being all a foreshadowing for the God's son's competed work.

So Proverbs, the book about what is likely to occur in life and the expected outcomes by what is chosen.
Job, about the theoretical person who perfectly has done Proverbs getting curbstomped, because it isn't that simple.
Ecclesiastes, about sorrow for the fallen world and man, with great wisdom comes great pain, yet saw a glimpse of the King of Kings. It isn't about what currently is in the fallen world, is what comes after. The only one reliable is God.
The Song Of Songs, never gonna give you up never gonna let you down never gonna turn around a hurt you.

>>8392
>101 and 301
Clearly Im in tje wrong place. I guess I should have stuck to the library

Man I haven't posted on this in a while; in fact, I haven’t posted on this site this year, so I just wanted to say God bless, and I hope you all have a happy new year, and you will be in my prayers tonight. Good night Sleep tight

>>8394
Let me better explain what I mean. The Bible is an intimidating read on it's face. To a person who hasn't been reading it for decades, it is already quite complicated enough. My intention ITT - appreciating that you're OP - is to read the bible book by book until completion, analyzing each book in isolation. AFTER that, I'll be happy to start jumping through the "turn now to this book/section" stuff, but a foundational understanding of 'who is said to have said/done what and when' is MY first intention. And, while there's undoubtedly plenty to be gleaned from an investigation of Solomon the figure (both what is written and what has been removed Xp), there is enough wisdom in Proverbs that one can glean plenty without emphasizing the cross-refenced nature of the whole of the Bible.

>>8397
I appreciate that you are new to the text, but this is like reading about the Civil War without wanting to read anything about who the South or North were, who ran their nations, and what their culture and economics were like to explain why the war was fought and why who won was indeed the victor. By reading the Civil War just to find the winner, you can find out the answer to that question, but the importance is lost if you don't want to study.

We can do something easier if you want, but there are specific starting points that I suggest beginning with. Children typically don't start with algebra and have to learn the concepts of addition, subtraction, multiplication, and division first. I can go through Proverbs and just repeat what is stated in the text, but this is like telling a child 2x=14. You don't even tell them to solve for x, just that 2x=14. This information in isolation is only so useful. This is why study is important, to learn that x=14/2 and x=7, then figuring out how to solve for x in the future.

By starting at a more natural beginning point, you won't need to jump around nearly as much because you will be building the information as you go. By diving in the middle, you absolutely do need to cross-reference to some degree.

Here is a good example:
Jude 1:11
Woe unto them! for they have gone in the way of Cain, and ran greedily after the error of Balaam for reward, and perished in the gainsaying of Core.

Tell me, who or what is Core? Do you know? If you don't care, then you have to skip over this bit of information and thus are not really studying. If you cross-reference, you learn who Core is and why he is listed along with Cain and gain an understanding of the text through study. Some texts are easier to glide through than others, but you can't just say zero references and explanations please. It runs counter to the purpose of study.

If you want me to dumb it down, you just need to highlight what I said that you don't understand or a part of the text that you want to focus on. Otherwise, I have to simply go through the entirety of the text and try to highlight things myself, which will vary from the simple to the complex.

>>8399
No, it's like reading the Proverbs of Solomon without worrying AT THE GATE who Solomon was. Thats a false equivalence to suggest it's like reading a story of the Civil War without understanding all the rest. I'M SAYING WE'LL GET TO THAT, and no I'm not trying to hijack the intent/direction of the thread, but I am explaining why I want to beat you with a newspaper right now.
>starting with algebra
Metaphysics is more like advanced Calculus than algebra, and yes, I do come into this knowing advanced Calculus. So please pardon if I want to thoroughly familiarize myself with the "addition, subtraction, multiplication, and division" of all this, which pardon me for saying seems to be the CONTENT OF THE INDIVIDUAL BOOKS THEMSELVES, after which we can get into the algebra.
Let me be clear. I know many of the seals of Solomon. Let's just stick to proverbs, or rather pardon me while I do.

>>8400
Meant for
>>8398

Well, regardless of anon not liking my teaching style, I will still slowly go through Proverbs.
Proverbs 1:10-19
My son, if sinners entice thee, consent thou not.
11If they say, Come with us, let us lay wait for blood, let us lurk privily for the innocent without cause:
12Let us swallow them up alive as the grave; and whole, as those that go down into the pit:
13We shall find all precious substance, we shall fill our houses with spoil:
14Cast in thy lot among us; let us all have one purse:
15My son, walk not thou in the way with them; refrain thy foot from their path:
16For their feet run to evil, and make haste to shed blood.
17Surely in vain the net is spread in the sight of any bird.
18And they lay wait for their own blood; they lurk privily for their own lives.
19So are the ways of every one that is greedy of gain; which taketh away the life of the owners thereof.

So, why does Solomon say “My son” in this passage? It isn’t just a term of endearment. Solomon had a son that was set to rule that needed to hear the wisdom to rule well. Unfortunately, like what is often the case, the son ignored everything that was told to him.
II Chronicles 10:6-19
And king Rehoboam took counsel with the old men that had stood before Solomon his father while he yet lived, saying, What counsel give ye me to return answer to this people?
7And they spake unto him, saying, If thou be kind to this people, and please them, and speak good words to them, they will be thy servants for ever.
8But he forsook the counsel which the old men gave him, and took counsel with the young men that were brought up with him, that stood before him.
9And he said unto them, What advice give ye that we may return answer to this people, which have spoken to me, saying, Ease somewhat the yoke that thy father did put upon us?
10And the young men that were brought up with him spake unto him, saying, Thus shalt thou answer the people that spake unto thee, saying, Thy father made our yoke heavy, but make thou it somewhat lighter for us; thus shalt thou say unto them, My little finger shall be thicker than my father's loins.
11For whereas my father put a heavy yoke upon you, I will put more to your yoke: my father chastised you with whips, but I will chastise you with scorpions.
12So Jeroboam and all the people came to Rehoboam on the third day, as the king bade, saying, Come again to me on the third day.
13And the king answered them roughly; and king Rehoboam forsook the counsel of the old men,
14And answered them after the advice of the young men, saying, My father made your yoke heavy, but I will add thereto: my father chastised you with whips, but I will chastise you with scorpions.
15So the king hearkened not unto the people: for the cause was of God, that the LORD might perform his word, which he spake by the hand of Ahijah the Shilonite to Jeroboam the son of Nebat.
16And when all Israel saw that the king would not hearken unto them, the people answered the king, saying, What portion have we in David? and we have none inheritance in the son of Jesse: every man to your tents, O Israel: and now, David, see to thine own house. So all Israel went to their tents.
17But as for the children of Israel that dwelt in the cities of Judah, Rehoboam reigned over them.
18Then king Rehoboam sent Hadoram that was over the tribute; and the children of Israel stoned him with stones, that he died. But king Rehoboam made speed to get him up to his chariot, to flee to Jerusalem.
19And Israel rebelled against the house of David unto this day.

Rehoboam did not seek wise counsel, or wisdom from elders, or even just decent people. He listened to the exact people that Solomon warned him to avoid. The young counsel were happy greedy, wanting Rehoboam to be even greater than Solomon, and wanted to persecute the innocent, hungry for blood. Though we can easily learn from the Proverbs, there are two levels that it was written for: advice for Solomon’s sons and advice for the people. Both of these are true but understanding them helps us know why Solomon speaks in certain ways, focusing on some things and rushing others.

So, we see that Solomon is telling his son about not falling in with bad crowds. A useful lesson. We then shift a bit as Solomon tells his son what the result of failing to understand wisdom will be.
Proverbs 1:20-33
Wisdom crieth without; she uttereth her voice in the streets:
21She crieth in the chief place of concourse, in the openings of the gates: in the city she uttereth her words, saying,
22How long, ye simple ones, will ye love simplicity? and the scorners delight in their scorning, and fools hate knowledge?
23Turn you at my reproof: behold, I will pour out my spirit unto you, I will make known my words unto you.
24Because I have called, and ye refused; I have stretched out my hand, and no man regarded;
25But ye have set at nought all my counsel, and would none of my reproof:
26I also will laugh at your calamity; I will mock when your fear cometh;
27When your fear cometh as desolation, and your destruction cometh as a whirlwind; when distress and anguish cometh upon you.
28Then shall they call upon me, but I will not answer; they shall seek me early, but they shall not find me:
29For that they hated knowledge, and did not choose the fear of the LORD:
30They would none of my counsel: they despised all my reproof.
31Therefore shall they eat of the fruit of their own way, and be filled with their own devices.
32For the turning away of the simple shall slay them, and the prosperity of fools shall destroy them.
33But whoso hearkeneth unto me shall dwell safely, and shall be quiet from fear of evil.

>>8413
He also emphasizes that the fear of the Lord and hating knowledge is how come they can’t obtain it. It is shown as the source of the wisdom that would prevent the calamity that dooms those, like Rehoboam, to suffering needlessly. He finishes this section by stating that those that despise reproof or being told something that convicts of wrong doing, will do as they please, filled with their own devices. But this will end up killing them and destroying what they have, again foretelling of the disaster that Rehoboam would cause, beginning the Israeli civil war and setting in motion many events that led to the Jewish problem we have today.
In other words, a large amount of our suffering is because one guy refused to listen to his dad. Thanks Rehobama.

More lessons to follow. I hope you enjoy.

>>8413
*SIGH*
Have you ever watched a movie for the first time, alongside someone who has watched it dozens of times and "doesn't want you to miss out on the nuance" and ends up bombarding you with details that actually ruins the experience?
That's what's happening right now.

I know (you) bible-fags think you're helping, but you aren't. You're making it worse for people who are on the fence and are tentative. Consider holding off on the authoritarian cock, that's why most people avoid Christiandom in the first place. Not here to be lectured at, thank you.

>>8447
>That's why most people avoid Christiandom in the first place.
Most people✝ avoid the Christian lifestyle because they were raised by a culture and a religion the explicitly prohibits and goes against Christian train of thought.

✝While their humanity is up for debate, "People" in this case does include Muslims, Jews, Hindus, and Chinese who make up a majority of the world's population