/vx/ - Videogames and Paranormal


If you want to see the latest posts from all boards in a convenient way please check out /overboard/

Name
Email
Subject
By clicking New Reply, I acknowledge the existence of the Israeli nuclear arsenal.
Comment
0
Select File / Oekaki
File(s)
Password (For file and/or post deletion.)

IMG_0058.jpeg
Occupied Equestria - We’re Starting It This Thread I Swear
Anonymous
989814f
?
No.177003
177010
Continuing, and hopefully introducing new characters.

And on the wrong damn post number
1713 replies and 79 files omitted.
The Floof and The Noodle
7aa5c3a
?
No.178776
178779
>>178775
Kira looks a little pale at that last part. "Um...did you just say 'torture'?"
Briefing - Addendum
GM Pony - Shoal Water
a806d2d
?
No.178777
178782
The smile fades, and his expression becomes serious.

"And now... to something that I think I should disclose. You've noticed that I didn't simply plan a secret rescue by marines, nor go to the Blackhooves, nor recruit auxiliaries from the much closer Manehattan... You've noticed I've come here, and I am in the office of Revenue & Migration. Well, I am in Baltimare for a fuel oil procurement contract, but there is a reason I am recruiting here.

Well, you see... I told you that Rooke asked for photographs of the Kostroma as it was docking in Sirius. KS-19 could of course not get close enough to take good pictures, but they tried all the same. I took the undeveloped photographs from the KS-19 myself. The Blackhooves operatives who came by to collect them were forceful in a way I have never seen from them before, were very rude, and did not believe me when I told them we gave all that we had, and that we did not have many, or any, photographs of what they wanted. Something in that interaction... It cannot be put into words. I knew I could not trust the Blackhooves, nor those portions of the military under their supervision, nor the Blackhooves friendly governments of Trottingham and Manehattan, to get our stallions home. And that is why I am looking further afield for help this time, and why I am here in Revenue and Migrations holding this briefing, and not with the military."
Rosey "Posey" Ring
2cf6a30
?
No.178778
178779
>>178772
>They are alive and have at least some means to defend themselves. Whether they could survive the cold night, or avoid being captured by Stalliongrad, is uncertain.
"They are marines. I believe that they should be formidable enough to take care of themselves until we arrive." Posey replies... judging solely on the price that Shoal Waters has put on recovering them, with her archaic slave price mindset (judging them to be CR/lvl 3-4)
>may have taken them prisoner
"I don't believe that will be a problem. Recovery is one of my specialties, and I pride my self in.. tense negotiations."
>destroy the tech
"With pleasure"
>get them before commies/griffins/bugs/pirates do
"Very well. Let us make haste."
GM Pony - Shoal Water
a806d2d
?
No.178779
178783
>>178776
Answering,

"Staliongrad is known to have had a number of trials wherein the defendants confessed to all manner of heinous, but especially implausible crimes. They make ponies say things. I would strongly recommend you don't be captured."

>>178778
"They can survive the day, but I don't know what they'll have to keep warm when it goes below freezing at night."

>>178773
"Well, no. In a few years, New Mareland will have ended its wars against the Griffins and secured its territories. We will be much better able to defend ourselves, especially if the Sister Republics will be able to raise their own armies."

>>178759
"Oh, I don't have any say in the assets of the Stalliongradian Merchant Marine nor Navy. Only for the New Mareland Navy, which means the KS-13 and the ponies assigned to her."

>>178720
"Adversaries are whatever in Tartarus is on that island and preventing my ponies from coming home and our equipment from falling into hostile hooves."
Rosey "Posey" Ring
2cf6a30
?
No.178780
178783
298px-Ryan-merrill-vampirate2.jpg
>>178775
>pirate disguise
"Excellent! That means I don't have to be concerned with professional appearances and have some fun. The Dread Pirate Rosey Ring is at your service. Arrrg!" She says, whirling her cape snarling
Intimidate to look pirate-like
[1d20+15 = (18+15) = 33]
>Changelings are our greatest allies, after all…
Posey wretches at this, even though she knows it's ironic.
Rosey "Posey" Ring
2cf6a30
?
No.178782
>>178777
Rosey Ring nods in understanding
"The political situation is rather precarious these days. Sooner or later, we all find ourselves on the receiving end of it."
She smiles warmly
"But you need not worry. I am a professional."
The Floof and The Noodle
7aa5c3a
?
No.178783
178785
>>178779
Kira: gulp "So, uh...I guess there's nothing to it other than to not get caught! Ha ha...ha..."

Silver nods at Shoal's statement about the Kostroma, understanding him completely: as long as his ponies are rescued and the equipment is destroyed, everything else is fair game for their merry band of pirates. As for his statement about the future, Silver just gives him a sad look. If only he had seen Silver's dream last night and had seen the horrors that the future has in store for them, if fate isn't changed...

>>178780
Kira looks awed at Posey's pirate display. "Woooooow! That was really good!"
GM Pony - Shoal Water
a806d2d
?
No.178784
178785 178786 178805
"Any last questions before we proceed to the airport?"
Rosey "Posey" Ring
2cf6a30
?
No.178785
178786 178798
>>178783
"It gets better."
Rosey Ring opens saddlebag, and takes out some grotesque looking shoulder pads, spines and bracers, seemingly made of bones and teeth of various monsters: elements of the grotesque barding armor she entered the game with, before she swapped it out for the elegant chain shirt she now wears in her last attempt to impersonate a paladin.
She begins affixing them to her barding, which makes her armor look
"If we're going to be pirates, let's make sure we go there in style."
Rosey Ring is unable to hide her excitement at this point. It's been too long since she's been able to fight wearing all of her grotesque dread glam
>>178784
"Do we have time to go hunt for that feather token, or should we save daylight and split?"
The Floof and The Noodle
7aa5c3a
?
No.178786
178789
>>178784
Silver: "Two last requests; ammunition for our firearms in case we do end up in firefight with Stalliongraders, and some flares in case our radio becomes inoperable."

>>178785
Kira: "Oooooooo..."

Knowledge, Nature: Can Kira recognize any of the monsters these bones belong to?

[1d20+3 = (14+3) = 17]
Cavaliere
22573a8
?
No.178787
178792
Once the briefing is over…

>>178733
>>178742
The griffon looks over to Silver.
"That is information we needed to know, thank you. Without that, I would be reluctant to trust a creature with confessed ties to changelings, nevermind his–if you forgive my choice of language–buffoonish behavior. The way you phrased it lends credence to his ability as an operator."

>>178735
"Not just ponies. They can feed off any creature that has a soul."

>>178744
"Miss Ring, that threat is lessened by the fact that the target location is nowhere near the Changeling Empire but instead near Stalliongrad, and they are no friends of the Changelings either. The worst he could manage would be to smuggle part of this technology to them, and we will just need to keep and eye on him," Cavaliere calmly explained.

>>178715
He then raises a talon and looks around at the group.
"Captain, I don't have much in the way of sailing experience, but an average freighter is crewed by a dozen griffons or ponies. Eighty ponies or more implies that there is something extraordinarily valuable on that freighter beyond mere arms. Unfortunately it also makes it unlikely for us to find out what that is, and heightens the risks for your sailors. I can tell you now that even if this company-sized group wasn't ready for combat, I simply don't have enough ammunition to fight through them, let alone any additional communists who show up. We must focus on destroying the airship's engines and saving the crew, who may have found a place to hide, perhaps among the ruins. You've thought about this quite thoroughly and have contingency measures in case of failure. Nevertheless, I can assure you that we will not be captured."
Rosey "Posey" Ring
2cf6a30
?
No.178789
178791
skull-knight-v0-gt3z17kmmhnd1.jpg
>dress for the job you want, not the job you have
>the job I want
>>178786
Cryohydra, owlbear, griffon, and several things that don't count as "nature".
The Floof and The Noodle
7aa5c3a
?
No.178791
>>178789
Kira's not particularly knowledgeable about the arcane, but she at least knows a bit about animals and monsters. She's working with the best of what she's got. Regardless, she shows a keen interest in the armor, and where normal ponies would likely be grossed or weirded out by the macabre armor, Kira pokes at it while examining it closer.

Kira: "We've never used bones in this sort of fashion before in my tribe. I mean, we do have fur and leather armor, and some hunters like having some bone decorations adorning their equipment, but never to this extent. Is it sturdy? Like, is it as strong as my studded leather armor? Stronger?"
GM Pony - Shoal Water
a806d2d
?
No.178792
178794 178798
>>178787
>80 is too many
"You don't understand. This is a 440 foot freighter with five cargo holds that can carry at least twenty two million pounds of dry cargo, including hundreds of tanks, or tens of millions of rounds of ammunition. Fifty is a light crew for a vessel that size. And twenty marines with it is about the minimum just to man the anti-aircraft guns. It's dangerous, to be sure, if all of those are armed and against you. But your mission is not to seize the Kostroma. It is to rescue a few ponies, burn two engines and a radar, and leave.

As for Ammunition, make do. Borrow some from the communists if you have to."
GM Pony - Shoal Water
a806d2d
?
No.178793
178794 178796 178797 178798
"Another thing. Your group will be given at least one two way radio, a set of explosives, and a camera. The camera is specifically to take pictures of the destroyed KS-19's engines and radar to confirm the torch.

And while it may be an option... any requests for possible requisition of armor, weapons, ammunition, or utility items? I can't promise a request will be granted, but it may be considered."
Rosey "Posey" Ring
2cf6a30
?
No.178794
178795 178796 178801 178802 178811
>>178792
Rosey Ring requests part of the payment up front to pay for the Swan Boat feather Token.
Also a piece of black fabric and some good ol' white lead paint, to paint a pirate flag to put on her polearm.
And any other pieces of pirate cosplay (hat, toy parrot, if available.
>>178793
>And while it may be an option... any requests for possible requisition of armor
"A set of magic armor would be greatly appreciated, but otherwise I think I am prepared. Perhaps a tower shield, to provide cover from incoming fire. Maybe a Cloak Of Thorns.
>weapons
"If you have any least or lesser augmentation crystals, I would appreciate using one, such as a lifedrinking crystal or an energy assault crystal."
Also, a flamethrower, perhaps? I'm not a big firearms mare, but I'm able to use a flamethrower."
>ammunition
"I am proficient in a compound bow. Perhaps explosive ammunition? Grenade arrows? Grenades in general? Noxious Smokesticks? Tanglefoot bags?"
She lights up
"Eggshell Dust grenades. So cheap, yet so effective. I only brought a hornful with me, but if you have any I'll take them."
>utility items
"I STRONGLY SUGGEST investing in that Swan Boat feather token. It could mean a world of difference." She says again
"Otherwise, well, I could use scrolls or wands of any black weave or necromancy spells, although I would expect you to just have those lying around. Perhaps an amber amulet of vermin, I know they're not too pricey."
"I believe a healing belt or wand of lesser vigor could be worthwhile, although it's not a priority for me."

"And well... I could always use a new cape of charisma..."

Posey is a greedy mare.
Rosey "Posey" Ring
2cf6a30
?
No.178795
>>178794
>would expect
*would NOT expect
The Floof and The Noodle
7aa5c3a
?
No.178796
178797 178801
>>178793
>>178794
Silver: "Uh...hmm...I think I will stick with my request for ammo, flares, and also maybe medical supplies."
Rosey "Posey" Ring
2cf6a30
?
No.178797
>>178796
>>178793
"Just the feather token would be okay though..." Rosey Ring follows up
Cavaliere
22573a8
?
No.178798
178799 178801 178806
>>178785
Cavaliere raises an eyebrow as he turns his head to watch her. He takes a Knowledge: Arcana to see if Posey's armor looks enchanted in some way.
[1d20+7 = (16+7) = 23]

>>178792
"I suppose the sheer quantity is the reason behind that freighter's value."
>>178793
"I will need a couple boxes of forty-five calibre ammunition at least. In addition, a camouflage net or tarp would be essential to hide on this barren island. As for freezing survivors, would you happen to have any chemical mixtures that would provide heat without light? Defiant Dust might make use of those, since a fire would give away our position."
Rosey "Posey" Ring
181262a
?
No.178799
178800
>>178798
You can't tell if an item is magic just by looking at it, lol.
But you can tell this barfing isn't magical because it doesn't even look masterwork. It looks like a cumbersome and grotesque patchwork of the bones of various demons. It actually looks like it would hamper its user in combat (-2 to attack rolls), but that's worth it for getting to demoralize on attacks.
Rosey "Posey" Ring
181262a
?
No.178800
>>178799
>barfing
*Barding
Anonymous
a806d2d
?
No.178801
178802 178803
>>178794
>A set of magic armor
"We have multiple varieties of armor, but not magical armor"

>Swan feather token
"Fine. We can try to locate one and have it available in Manehattan"

>If you have any least or lesser augmentation crystals, I would appreciate using one, such as a lifedrinking crystal or an energy assault crystal.
"Huh?"

>lifedrinking crystal
>Energy assault crystal
"Ohhhhh" Shoal Water opens his jacket, pulls out a suspicious looking can, walks over, and hoofs it to Posey
"Here you go." It is a purple can with the words "PONYTHIRST" in white letters along its side.

>A flamethrower
"That's a bit beyond what we can allot. You aren't necessarily missing that much. Flamethrowers are extremely heavy, explody, not bullet-proof, and much less effective in open areas, which this is.

>explosive arrows
He rubs his chin
"Possible, though it may have to meet you in Manehattan"

>eggshell dust grenades
"Viable"

>Amulet of vermin
"Hmmm... Maybe?"

>scrolls or wands of any black weave or necromancy spells
"I've never heard of 'black weave' unless you're talking about mane extensions, and as for necromancy, would you believe me if I told you that it is not a regular part of our combat mage spells?"

>I could always use a new cape of charisma
"Ha, I could too."

>>178796
>Ammo
Yes

>Flares
A few could be spared, yes

>Medical supplies
Yes. And you will need it

>>178798
>"I suppose the sheer quantity is the reason behind that freighter's value."
"That may be, yes. It could have carried an entire factory over there, and then most of a forest on the way back. Then again, I don't know what the rush would be. But sending fuel oil there... That, it could be."

>ammunition
"Yes, we can do that"

>Camoflauge
"I... think so? It may need to meet you elsewhere."

>chemical mixtures
"I think we have that, yes"
The Floof and The Noodle
7aa5c3a
?
No.178802
178803
>>178794
>>178801
Kira: gasp "You can make arrows explode!?"
Rosey "Posey" Ring
181262a
?
No.178803
178804
>>178801
>"PONYTHIRST"
Posey looks at the can, and decides to open it later.
>"Hmmm... Maybe?"
"A scorpion amulet costs even less than the feather token. Do consider it while we are on our way..."

Gonna make a Charisma check to leverage Posey's charm
[1d20+6 = (19+6) = 25]
>>178802
"Yes. You can also make ones that split into three copies, which is great if you also have a splitting bow, and cast Arrowsplit on top of it. Really great if make it an alchemist's razorfeather dragonsbreath arrow."

(This is why Mystic Ranger is better. Early access to Arrowsplit is awesome)
The Floof and The Noodle
7aa5c3a
?
No.178804
>>178803
Kira's eyes almost seem to glaze over at Posey saying "alchemist's razorfeather dragonsbreath arrow".

Kira: "Uh...we just have these..." Kira pulls out an arrow from one of the two quivers on her person. The arrow seems to be an entirely mundane steel-tipped barbed arrow intended primarily for hunting. Thankfully, the lack of plate armor or even just metal armor on modern soldiers means that even these should be effective against any soldiers they come across, and would be an absolute pain to try to remove or treat. It should be noted that the arrow appears to be of excellent craftsponyship, and looks to be it's hoofmade rather than made in a factory. She may have even made them herself.
Anonymous
6611fb3
?
No.178805
>>178784
"I do hate to repeat myself. Where IS the quartermaster?"
Anonymous
6611fb3
?
No.178806
178816 178821
>>178774
As you wish
>>178775
Sense motive [1d20+8 = (18+8) = 26]
"My my, it seems ponies are quick to demand answers right up until one offers to give then freely and under a veil of truth!" He seems slightly offended, "Very well, glad am I that we can dispense with this superscilious game of 20 questions and get to business like adults."
>>178798
All magical equipment must - prior to enchantment - be "masterwork" quality (+1 nonmagical) which you can ascertain through an "appraise" check
Da Zeeb
064b6e8
?
No.178811
178812
>>178794
The zeeb hears the word "necromancy" and immediately snaps out of whatever prayers he's been muttering in tbe corner. His eyes narrow as he stares at Posey. He's tense, but it doesn't look like he's going to do anything yet. He will be watching a bit closer than before now, however.
Rosey "Posey" Ring
53e380b
?
No.178812
178817 178821
>>178811
Roll Arcana to see if you know what blackweave spells are, and how they differ from spells that animate the dead (of which Posey has none, yet).
Or ask in character.
The Floof and The Noodle
7aa5c3a
?
No.178813
178814
Hmmm, does Posey really think she can avoid being Kira's friend that easily?
Rosey "Posey" Ring
53e380b
?
No.178814
178815
1999802.jpeg
>>178813
>implying
The Floof and The Noodle
7aa5c3a
?
No.178815
6692__safe_pinkie+pie_female_pony_mare_simple+background_male_smiling_earth+pony_cute_monochrome_human_open+mouth_white+background_crossover_underhoo.jpg
>>178814
Anonymous
6611fb3
?
No.178816
178820 178821
>>178806
"There are a couple problems with your plan good Captain, but before we get into that I hope you'll indulge my curiosity. Where do these fine ponies fit into your scheming little plan? It seems unnecessary to link them to a major international incident as changeling collaborators, and I'll wager they will have a much more difficult time of replacing their documents than I will. I credit the cleverness of your idea, but you see these ponies can't survive as fugitive criminals."
He pauses, and allows the idea to sink in around.
"And then there's the question of if I refuse! Surely you won't drag me away to toss my body in the vicinity just to satisfy your preplanned narrative, and if you tried there are several here who I am confident wouldn't stand for it regardless of what they think of me. So tell me Captain, tell me everything."
[1d20+5 = (6+5) = 11] Intimidation
Anonymous
064b6e8
?
No.178817
178818
>>178812
Oh he doesn't know anything about that. But she did specifically say necromancy. He doesn't care if it's to raise the dead or control them, you've tipped him off
Rosey "Posey" Ring
53e380b
?
No.178818
wxw3b72f0mmz.png
>>178817
Oh well. I guess we'll see how it plays out.
Anonymous
6611fb3
?
No.178819
Eh, its 2 digits at least
Keep in mind, all Brie has on/with him is a nmidnight blue vest with finely embroidered pink pinstripes, and a small tea set.
The Floof and The Noodle
7aa5c3a
?
No.178820
>>178816
Bluff: Now it's Silver's turn to try to give Brie a secret message to stop it, in an attempt to cut him off from angering Shoal Water.

[1d20 = 16]
Anonymous
733ac77
?
No.178821
178822 178823
>>178806
Yes, it’s a threat. It’s directed specifically at Brie. Whether the details of the threat are true… it seems to be made up on the spot. But the message is clear. He who fucks around, shall sooner or later, most assuredly find out.

“The quartermaster is elsewhere. He works for R&M, not me. I will call him so your equipment may meet you at the airport. Any items that are more difficult to procure or budget for can be acquired from the naval base at Manehattan and meet you at the airport there.”

>>178816
Shoal Water, feigning surprise,

“It would be unnecessary, wouldn’t it? Completely unnecessary. As for these… ponies… I have stated already where they fit into my plans. Thus far I trust them to execute their part. And if you refuse? Well, tell us now. We’re not paying for your return from Manehattan if you aren’t up to the task.”

>>178812
Neither the Paladin nor the Cleric need arcana to know that Posey just asked for necromancy spells in front of everyone.
Rosey "Posey" Ring
53e380b
?
No.178822
>>178821
When do you want to start the crawl, GM?
I think we've made all necessary preparations. I have this evening off.
Anonymous
8b62f4f
?
No.178823
178824 178825 178828
>>178821
"Oh for Celestia's sake are you still on about what I might do? After you basically acknowledged a plan to strategically false-flag an alliance with Stalliongrad? I swear, everytime I get contacted by the government somepony tries to slip a knife in my back somewhere along the way, whether to advance their career, fatten their bank account, or stick it to an Empire that I have frignteningly little to do with. I think it is beyond time for a little compelled honesty for several reasons."
The Floof and The Noodle
7aa5c3a
?
No.178824
178826
>>178823
Silver: "I feel we can discuss this after we rescue those navy ponies and blow up those airship components. Arguing with pony who is giving us mission is not very good business decision."
Rosey "Posey" Ring
53e380b
?
No.178825
>>178823
Bruh, don't push the potential consequences of a failed intimidation check against our quest-giver.
Anonymous
6611fb3
?
No.178826
178827
>>178824
"It would make for a vastly worse business decision to engage in an agreement that is inherently a trap. Are you saying that honesty is a bridge too far, given what is being asked?"
Anonymous
6611fb3
?
No.178827
178828
>>178826
"Something you might consider is that in certain parts of the world, my head fetches a higher bounty than is being offered for this entire mission. I envy the naïvete that you seem to enjoy in your operational capacity, but I would be long dead if I didn't hedge every bet and hold every bit of security available. You think I'm being unreasonable? I've been part of a squad that was betrayed and left to die once already."
Anonymous
a806d2d
?
No.178828
178829
>>178823
"Well, you've tried to intimidate me on... two, occasions, I think? You've been trying to go around me to acquire explosives on at least two occasions. You're not exactly inspiring confidence here.

Literally what even is your motivation here for being antagonistic towards me? I'm trying to offer you 3,000 bits and the opportunity to loot and kill, and your response is to be hostile to me? Just.... what? I don't get it.

And yes, I am telling you that if you fuck me over, I will make it unpleasant for you. I will leave the exact details of the punishment up to Staliongrad or the Changeling Hegemony, as they will surely do a better job than I could. Why do I tell you and only you, and not the other six? Because they aren't hostile for no fucking reason. Now stop.

And no. I can't cast 'Zone of Truth,' though I'm flattered that you think I can."

>>178827
"I were you right now, I would keep that bounty on your head a secret from your teammates here.

I've told you very explicitly exactly what I want out of all of you. I want my own soldiers back, I want our technology kept secret, and I want everything done quietly. Do that, and I will reward you handsomely. Fail, well that's disappointing, I'll look for help elsewhere. Deliberately fuck all of us over? Stalliongrad and the Changelings will fight over who gets to decide your punishment."
Anonymous
6611fb3
?
No.178829
178830 178831
>>178828
"And what, aside from the insinuations of some hyper-sensitive ponies and a little colorful banter on my part suggests I won't comply to the letter?
Remember, I'm the reason your reports were written. I'm sure they list something to the degree of "Potential liability, but unquestionably effective." or any variation thereof. I have emphasized for explosives because I anticipate they will be necessary - an anticipation that has been confirmed, as details emerge - because from the little you've told me we're likely dealing with a commandeered freighter that for reasons yet to be determined were likely able to get the drop on a 10 pony crew of professional military. This already suggests that it isn't Stalliongrad, but you already know that, don't you?"
GM Pony - Shoal Water
a806d2d
?
No.178830
178831 178832
"A bit more information, since Mr. Cavalierie asked. I don't believe that the Kostroma was carrying a full load of ore or timber or whatever it was. The ship was only medium-low in the water, and going at an unusually high speed, and this was true even before it got to Sirius, and did not change thereafter."

>>178829
"Okay, so this is about that damned freighter. Fair enough I suppose. First of all, it really isn't that hard to shoot down a blimp that's been following you for days. The ship has a 120 mm gun and 20mm canons. All that it would take is the KS-19 to get a little to close, and the will to do it. Admittedly I didn't expect either, yet here we are.

I have no idea what is or was on that freighter. It may have been empty, had a jammed rudder, or even been derelict for all I know. The only thing I know for damn sure is that I do not trust my own government to get them home because they are more concerned with that damned ship. I don't care what was on that freighter. I care that Military Intelligence caused one of my blimps to be lost pursuing it. And frankly, you should hope that you aren't dealing with Stalliongrad. Do you really want to deal with an 80 pony crew and an army contingent both fighting together against you?"
The Floof and The Noodle
7aa5c3a
?
No.178831
178839
>>178829
>>178830
Silver, who has already staked his reputation on advocating for Brie's loyalties, looks at the bat with a glare that is asking - no, telling - him to please just drop it.

Silver: "Whatever it is, I know that we as group can handle it. We are meant to be professionals, after all. We will get those ponies home safe and sound, and make sure that radar and propulsion system is destroyed."
Anonymous
6611fb3
?
No.178832
178839
>>178830
"I,... we... I think, can handle a Stalliongrad battallion. I'm more concerned that it might be a more coordinated paramilitary group, taking advantage of certain appearances to get the drop on, commandeer, and utilize an industrial freighter, and then compromise a military airship. I reiterate, the necessary coordination - disciplined coordination - suggests that at best Salliongrad may be involved but not calling the shots."