/ub/ - Überhengst

>>6873
>I do like racism good messages, but when you try to combine it recklessly with the Bible, you are going to get absolutely destroyed messages.
Glad to have you around anon to classify the the good from the bad. You are better informed than me.

"[The promises] were not to a single person in Christ; the promise is for Abraham’s seed to become as the sands of the sea, and that the covenant would be established with his seed, which is a collective noun, implying multiple recipients of the promises (Isaac: and his descendants after him through Jacob)"

I just went over this in Galatians. A direct contradiction to the Bible. Smooth moves so far... Ryan... That's all the credit that your website has provided. Ryan, a member for 2 months and 4 weeks... so three months? I guess math on this website takes a bit to track.

Anyway, all we get is Ryan from somewhere made this. It isn't even credited as his within the document itself. Maybe he found it somewhere else and uploaded it there. A cycle of mystery and it doesn't spell good news for doctrine.

>>6874
Well, I do appreciate you saying that. You have the ability to be better than I am at catching these things if you put your mind to it. Especially when the Bible is involved. People love to twist anything and everything into the Bible. You just need to read a bit and don't be caught up in things that look agreeable alone. That is what the left gets caught it so much as well. The Bible says all are adopted and all can come to Christ, thus racism is banned! Except that Christ displayed racism as well, talking down to mixed races. He did still show kindness to them, but racism is not absolved just because on a higher level, God does not bar entry into heaven based on race. He still has blessings and curses based on race as denoted from the very first book of the Bible.

"There are non-Adamic, not-from-Noah nations which survived the flood, some of which are listed in Genesis 14, 15 and Deuteronomy 7, that we argue are of the fallen angels: the Tree of the Knowledge of Good and Evil, that was not planted by Yahweh God in the Garden of Eden, and the fruit of which we are not to eat (Proverbs 30:20: eating implies sexual relations)."

Damn it all. A Gnostic. Why is it always a fucking Gnostic?

Ok, deep lore time! So, there are these guys called the Gnostics, and they existed before Christianity. Summarizing the core belief for the majority of the cases, since they are also widely different from one another depending on personal beliefs and interpretations, but basically they hate the world and like spiritual stuff. The more spiritual, the more it is good. The more it connects to the world, the more inherently evil it must be.

So these guys encounter Jewish texts and start forming some ideas that will come into play in the future when they encounter Christians, which is when things really took off for them. The came on the scene with so fresh, totally legit writings that were super secret and revealed the lies that the Jews didn't want you to know!

There are many of these books like the Gospel of Mary, the Gospel of Judas, but the one we are interested in right now is the Apocalypse of Adam. This book chronicles the misadventures of Adam as he reveals how he truly felt about God and the world.

Why do I bring this up? Well, we got ourselves a direct quote from this book.
Then God will rest from his wrath. And he will cast his power upon the waters, and he will give power to his sons and their wives by means of the ark along with the animals, whichever he pleased, and the birds of heaven, which he called and released upon the earth. And God will say to Noah - whom the generations will call 'Deucalion' - "Behold, I have protected <you> in the ark, along with your wife and your sons and their wives and their animals and the birds of heaven, which you called and released upon the earth. Therefore I will give the earth to you - you and your sons. In kingly fashion you will rule over it - you and your sons. And no seed will come from you of the men who will not stand in my presence in another glory."

Then they will become as the cloud of the great light. Those men will come who have been cast forth from the knowledge of the great aeons and the angels. They will stand before Noah and the aeons. And God will say to Noah, "Why have you departed from what I told you? You have created another generation so that you might scorn my power." Then Noah will say, "I shall testify before your might that the generation of these men did not come from me nor from my sons. [...] knowledge.

So, their book claims that Noah and his family were not the sole survivors. This is not found anywhere in the Bible. Ryan is out here quoting Gnostic books and passing it off as correct.

Now, why would Ryan do this? Well, Gnostics believe in the hard separation between God and Jesus. They don't believe they are one yet three, different and the same at all. They believe that God is evil and Jesus came to overthrow Him. Why is that? Well, it goes back to the simplified core of their belief system. The world is evil. Therefore, the one that made the world must be evil. God must be evil and Jesus, who is good, must not be from God, of God, and is God. It is an incompatibility in their religion, despite Jesus saying
John 8:58
Jesus said unto them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, Before Abraham was, I am.

God is known as I am, or I am that I am. Jesus without any room for misinterpretation said that He existed before Abraham and is God, the same that revealed Himself as I am to the people.

But, that can't work in Gnosticism. So, they plow ahead regardless. They ultimately will arrive at the conclusion that Jesus is Lucifer, Satan is a general title, and Jesus is Satan towards God. If you don't want to take my word for it, look through the alt history stuff thread where that one anon posted Armored Skeptic saying the same thing. It is inverse Christianity in essence.

>>6877
>Ryan
Perhaps Ryan is trying to stick to Positive Christianity.

He goes on to redefine what all means. He says that the word for all comes from kosmos in Greek which means world, and he then pulls from Caeser decreeing that all should be taxed, as in the whole world. And obviously the whole world was not reached, as South America did not get taxed. Therefore, God doesn't love and save everyone, just the people Caeser taxed... Here is his text to confirm.

And it came to pass in those days, that there went out a decree from Cæsar Augustus, that all the world should be taxed.
Luke 2:1 KJV “all the world”, in the sense of the modern colloquial understanding of the word “world”, might mean the “whole planet”. But Cæsar did not tax the whole planet: he did not tax China, India, South America, nor the Congo; he taxed the whole
Roman World: this word here is translated from οἰκουμένη. Strabo defines “οἰκουμένη” in his “Geography”, and it includes only White nations, not China, the Congo, etc.
Strabo: (Geography, 1.1.16): on the οἰκουμένη: “Thus it is clear that geography… is composed of continents and seas, both those within and outside the entire inhabited
world” Land exists outside this “world”… (Geography, 2.5.3-9): the inhabited world ranges from Rhodes to 16,600 stadia south, then from Britain 4000 stadia north. The length being 70,000 stadia west to east, from Iberia to the capes of India; This excludes China and other places, as is evident in maps provided by translators, including Duane W. Roller. “People” outside these realms were referred to as “complete savages”
In the context of the Greco-Roman world, and therefore the scriptures, the word “world” (of the popular John 3:16, for example: κόσμος (kosmos, G2889), meaning order, or possibly “society”) must be understood in this context. The CNT has “Society”.
who wants all people to be saved and to come to a knowledge of the truth. For there is one God and one mediator between God and mankind, the man Christ Jesus, who gave himself as a ransom for all people. This has now been witnessed to at the proper time.
1 Timothy 2:4-6 NIV if Christ gave himself as a ransom for all people, and all fall short of the glory of God, and all are sent down as sinners (Romans 5:18-19), where is the line drawn? It is not just belief: Matthew 7:21-23

As you can tell, he is getting a bit schizo here, but let me bring something up and not just dismiss him. He is saying the word for all from the world here must definitely be the only meaning of the word throughout the whole Bible because the ruler of Rome said the world was only what he ruled. Cool. I hope you didn't set up a rule earlier that would negate this finding...

Not all concept-words hereinafter apply every time the word is used in the Bible Ex: Not every use of the word “sheep” refers to Israel; it could be real sheep! Same as “Zion”, “Stars”; the original Hebrew/Greek matter, too!
I am not cherry-picking verses for an agenda; If you want to prove something, study the Greek/Hebrew/History and prove it for yourself; I believe there are poor translations of the Greek/Hebrew that exist, including the translations I am providing, so I do try to find verses that are better translations of the Greek/Hebrew (Study to show yourself approved!: 2 Timothy 2:15

Oh. The exact thing, word for word, that symbolic language exists and you can't apply every word everywhere for a simple solution especially if it doesn't make any fucking sense. Yeah. What happened to that?

He goes on to say
"Grace (In the Wilderness) is for Israel; For Israel is the Grace of
Yahweh God (Only Israel is prophesied to have received Grace
from Yahweh God, not “gentiles” or any other nation):"
You know, the creepy thing about Christian Identity is that it just becomes Jewish Identity. Everyone devolves to arguing who is the truest Jew. It makes no sense. Paul stated without any confusion that
Galatians 4:4-9
But when the fulness of the time was come, God sent forth his Son, made of a woman, made under the law,
To redeem them that were under the law, that we might receive the adoption of sons.
And because ye are sons, God hath sent forth the Spirit of his Son into your hearts, crying, Abba, Father.
Wherefore thou art no more a servant, but a son; and if a son, then an heir of God through Christ.
Howbeit then, when ye knew not God, ye did service unto them which by nature are no gods.
But now, after that ye have known God, or rather are known of God, how turn ye again to the weak and beggarly elements, whereunto ye desire again to be in bondage?

In other words, why do you want to be like a Jew again? God freed us from everything the world can do to us and even ourselves in our sin. Yet, people persist in wanting to keep all of the law and ignore Christ, believing that God can't possibly save unless you are born right. Well, if that were the case, then Jesus didn't have to die at all. He could have taken the throne and been done with it. Instead, his plan directly involved those that were not of the specific lineage.

We can find this in the parables Christ taught. It is most apparent to me in the parable of the vineyard with the evil servants.
Luke 20:9-19
Then began he to speak to the people this parable; A certain man planted a vineyard, and let it forth to husbandmen, and went into a far country for a long time.
And at the season he sent a servant to the husbandmen, that they should give him of the fruit of the vineyard: but the husbandmen beat him, and sent him away empty.
And again he sent another servant: and they beat him also, and entreated him shamefully, and sent him away empty.
And again he sent a third: and they wounded him also, and cast him out.
Then said the lord of the vineyard, What shall I do? I will send my beloved son: it may be they will reverence him when they see him.
But when the husbandmen saw him, they reasoned among themselves, saying, This is the heir: come, let us kill him, that the inheritance may be ours.
So they cast him out of the vineyard, and killed him. What therefore shall the lord of the vineyard do unto them?
He shall come and destroy these husbandmen, and shall give the vineyard to others. And when they heard it, they said, God forbid.
And he beheld them, and said, What is this then that is written, The stone which the builders rejected, the same is become the head of the corner?
Whosoever shall fall upon that stone shall be broken; but on whomsoever it shall fall, it will grind him to powder.
And the chief priests and the scribes the same hour sought to lay hands on him; and they feared the people: for they perceived that he had spoken this parable against them.

The priests were right to assume it was against them, but in acting as they did, they only guaranteed it would be as such. The story says that the vineyard needed someone to look over the operation being done by the husbandmen. Husbandmen take care of the vines and make sure it is ready for when the owner gets back so it can be harvested and enjoyed. First, the owner, which is God, sends some servants to oversee the operation and make sure that they aren't slacking off. They beat the shit out of each servant.

This matches what the Jews would do to prophets from God, killing them, beating them, disregarding them, imprisoning them, mocking them, really being a prophet to the Jews is basically asking for endless torture until they end you painfully. God sees this and decides that His Son being sent to oversee would have a better result. Instead, the husbandmen, Jews in this case, kill the son in hopes that without an heir, God will be forced to give them the inheritance of the field and everything God owns. God then destroys the husbandmen and gives the vineyard to others.

That is us. The Jews suffered their destruction by Rome for purpose, retribution for how hideously they treated Christ. It was passed to the Gentiles to watch over the vineyard, whites in particular. However, this also forms a severe warning. We will end up the same if we fail to worship God and abandon His work on earth. Whites have been the most dedicated to preserving and trying to understand all there is about the Bible, which is why there has been so much blessing. It is why I believe we will be afforded an opportunity to curb the advances of evil should we turn back to God. We don't need to claim Jewishness to make that happen. We just need to preserve the truth and not back down every time people desire it destroyed. We need to stop Ryans from fucking it up with Gnosticism and schizo readings.

"Adam, being a son of God, means Christ is not the “Only Begotten” son, but one of many of the race of Adam, and his legitimate children after him: only legitimate children could possibly be considered brethren to one another"

I think I will stop here for tonight with this lovely heresy. Only begotten is quite literally the only way to interpret the Bible. To deny it is insanity. No man is born from God, even Adam. He was formed out of clay and life was breathed into him. Jesus was born of the Holy Spirit touching Mary, simply touching, and Jesus was formed in the womb. This is why Christ is the only begotten, quite literally the only born Son of God. Not to mention how Christ existed before the entirety of existence was ever made and Jesus also made that clear, but sure, go with the most heretical version of events you possibly can Ryan.

See, when you convince yourself of something so much, you become blinded to just reading what the Bible says and knowing you fucked up. We are made into the sons of God through adoption, not birth right. This is how come Jesus was sent to die, to unite man with God, a relationship broken and God restored, without our input, without our work, without our understanding.

God the Father is a perfect summary of what God is like. A good Father to have that saw you fuck up, run away from Him, and He goes and fixes it, comes right over to us, and says that it is done. There is no more guilt. There is nothing to pay. God paid it all. Everything that could be held against us has been thrown away, into an ocean of forgetfulness according to God, unable to be recovered, lost for all time.

Why would any of that be needed if all he cares about is a bloodline? Why would he be the Father that sent His Son to die in our place? Our place would already be right beside Him. We don't deserve to be, yet God thought it not robbery to be made equal with us, first by being born on earth considered a bastard child, then by lifting us up to be adopted heirs. We are blessed beyond understanding, which is the only thing Ryan seems to get. The angels can't understand this work. They can certain recite it according to the Bible, as you ask a spirit what Christ has done and if the answer does not align with the Bible, it is evil. But the understanding is beyond any creation of God to understand. It is God's plan since the beginning. Only He gets it because for infinity He designed it and made it come to pass now and for infinity we will come to know only the surface of the love God has and the power of the work He did for us.

>>6881
>I think I will stop here for tonight with this lovely heresy. Only begotten is quite literally the only way to interpret the Bible.
Reminder that The Bible is composed of 2 parts. The Old Testament describing an evil jealous God to which the jews are fond of it; and a New Testament describing the Jesus' tribulations with them.
Kinda there is disconexion between both volumes.

>>6883
I hate this argument more than anything. If the God of the OT and NT aren't the same God, then we're talking about polytheism. If they are the same God, then why would he change character if he is omniscient and therefore knows all? "Drat, humanity didn't take closely enough to the teachings of the book I dictated to my people, how could I foresee this?" Or is it a character flaw, realizing a moral failing that this new teaching is supposed to rectify?

At best the two Gods argument is blasphemous lies against God himself, at worst it's true and it's a plot hole.

>>6884
>If the God of the OT and NT aren't the same God, then we're talking about polytheism
Yup. I think the confusion may be caused because of the same origins of the Bible. It is a collection of dissimilar texts arbitrarily put together by the Catholic Church who based its faith on it.
To be fair, it is about "Just Trust Us" and follow the doctrine.

https://youtu.be/-h7TvJL-QxE [Embed]
Looks like more questions that need addressing. Let's use the Bible to solve this issue.

>>6883
Sorry for falling asleep before I saw this. Let's get right to it. Two parts does not mean two Gods. That is like saying the first two seasons of MLP hold two different Twilight Sparkles. They are the same character. How can we know this for certain?

First, there is no evil God throughout the Old Testament. This is the Gnostic belief. Where in the text is evil to be found in God? He is constantly punishing Jews for being villainous little shits. If you hold that this makes God evil, that might explain such a position, which is why the Jews no longer hold to the Bible for their rituals, having divorced themselves from someone that judges them.

Let's look to the content of the Old Testament to gather who God is and let's compare it to the New Testament. If there is a clear difference as you suggested without proof, then the proof should be there. You wouldn't suggest something without it being true, correct?

Psalm 5:4-6
For thou art nor a God that hath pleasure in wickedness: neither shall evil dwell with thee.
The foolish shall not stand in thy sight: thou hatest all workers of iniquity.
Thou shalt destroy them that speak leasing: the Lord will abhor the bloody and deceitful man.

Now let's see what Jesus says about hating evil people.
Mark 9:42
And whosoever shall offend one of these little ones that believe in me, it is better for him that a millstone were hanged about his neck, and he were cast into the sea.
Matthew 23:13
But woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! for ye shut up the kingdom of heaven against men: for neither go in yourselves, neither suffer ye them that are entering to go in.
Matthew 23:33
Ye serpents, ye generation of vipers, how can ye escape the damnation of hell?

Jonah 4:2-4
And he prayed unto the Lord and said, I pray thee, O Lord, was not this my saying, when I was yet in my country? Therefore I fled before unto Tarshish: for I knew that thou art a gracious God, and merciful, slow to anger, and of great kindness, and repentest thee of the evil.
Therefore now, O Lord, take, I beseech thee, my life from me: for it is better for me to die than to live.
Then said the Lord, Doest thou well to be angry?
Jonah 4:11
And should not I spare Nineveh, that great city, wherein are more than sixscore thousand persons that cannot discern between their right hand and their left hand; and also much cattle?
Nehemiah 9:13-21
Thou camest down also upon mount Sinai, and spakest with them from heaven, and gavest them right judgments, and true laws, good statutes and commandments:
And madest known unto them thy holy sabbath, and commandedst them precepts, statutes, and laws, by the hand of Moses thy servant:
And gavest them bread from heaven for their hunger, and broughtest forth water for them out of the rock for their thirst, and promisedst them that they should go in to possess the land which thou hadst sworn to give them.
But they and our fathers dealt proudly, and hardened their necks, and hearkened not to thy commandments,
And refused to obey, neither were mindful of thy wonders that thou didst among them; but hardened their necks, and in their rebellion appointed a captain to return to their bondage: but thou art a God ready to pardon, gracious and merciful, slow to anger, and of great kindness, and forsookest them not.
Yea, when they had made them a molten calf, and said, This is thy God that brought thee up out of Egypt, and had wrought great provocations;
Yet thou in thy manifold mercies forsookest them not in the wilderness: the pillar of the cloud departed not from them by day, to lead them in the way; neither the pillar of fire by night, to shew them light, and the way wherein they should go.
Thou gavest also thy good spirit to instruct them, and withheldest not thy manna from their mouth, and gavest them water for their thirst.
Yea, forty years didst thou sustain them in the wilderness, so that they lacked nothing; their clothes waxed not old, and their feet swelled not.

John 6:30-40
They said therefore unto him, What sign shewest thou then, that we may see, and believe thee? what dost thou work?
Our fathers did eat manna in the desert; as it is written, He gave them bread from heaven to eat.
Then Jesus said unto them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, Moses gave you not that bread from heaven; but my Father giveth you the true bread from heaven.
For the bread of God is he which cometh down from heaven, and giveth life unto the world.
Then said they unto him, Lord, evermore give us this bread.
And Jesus said unto them, I am the bread of life: he that cometh to me shall never hunger; and he that believeth on me shall never thirst.
But I said unto you, That ye also have seen me, and believe not.
All that the Father giveth me shall come to me; and him that cometh to me I will in no wise cast out.
For I came down from heaven, not to do mine own will, but the will of him that sent me.
And this is the Father's will which hath sent me, that of all which he hath given me I should lose nothing, but should raise it up again at the last day.
And this is the will of him that sent me, that every one which seeth the Son, and believeth on him, may have everlasting life: and I will raise him up at the last day.

These are the same God. There are no differences.

>>6885
>>6884
I've never considered the God of the old testament as a different God in the literal sense. I just see the new testament as a major change in how God rules and how he approaches to us.

>>6885
Dissimilar texts? I suppose you have proof of this? I fail to see this, seeing as every book is logically put together, does not contradict the narrative, has a consistent picture of God and His plan, holds to a consistent value system, condemns evil, and promotes good. Where is the disconnect? Where are the differences? Is it just because Catholics said it was right and therefore you don't like it? I hate Catholicism, but when they said the text is right, they were not lying because there is no evidence that has ever been put forth that has been able to deny the Bible, otherwise it would have been dismissed over the last thousand years.

I also don't agree with the government, but when they say that you should drive the speed limit for your safety and for other people to be safe, it is correct. The government being the backer of this fact does not preclude the logic behind safe travel speeds. It is a provable fact and the character of the government does not mean speed limits are not in essence the correct means to navigate the road for safety.

>>6887
It is a significant change because of the nature of Christ fulfilling everything God set in place. His death and resurrection and the Holy Spirit being a part of our lives means that the way we can approach God even in sin is radically altered, as Jesus becomes a direct mediator between God and man. There was a divide present between humanity and God before that could not be satisfied by living a good life or doing some ritual. God states multiple times that the sacrificial system did not do anything to please Himself, it was meant to show the cost of sin and the need for a solution, a price that He would pay on our behalf.

This is why the New Testament has that name. A testament is a covenant, a contract, a promise. God made a promise with Israel, the Old Testament, that Jesus would eventually come and do these things until then. Jesus arrives and makes a new promise, a New Testament, that He bares the cost of sin and we become new men through Him, able to approach God without sin ever being a factor again.

>>6876
>Why is it always a fucking Gnostic?
Schizos who insist their fanfiction is actually relevant to Christianity.

>>6889
Very true. The Gnostic expanded lore is very crazy. They have texts that say God raped Eve, the Roman gods are part of the lineage of God, and Judas was killed by Jesus because Jesus wanted to info dump all of this onto him and made him want to neck himself. Very strange stuff.

>>6890
It's interesting lore, but it's really simply not canon. May as well be a separate religion.

>>6891
It is separate, despite the insistence of some. Gnosticism is basically two steps removed from Luciferianism. With God and Jesus made to be enemies, Jesus is basically the Luciferian architype, bringing knowledge and rebellion instead of salvation and unity.

>>6892
I get it. I don't really hold any enmity towards them, but it's annoying when they pop up shoehorning their extraneous stuff into discussions of canon scripture. .

>>6886
First, there is no evil God throughout the Old Testament. This is the Gnostic belief. Where in the text is evil to be found in God? He is constantly punishing Jews for being villainous little shits. If you hold that this makes God evil, that might explain such a position, which is why the Jews no longer hold to the Bible for their rituals, having divorced themselves from someone that judges them.
Judges 19 paints an....interesting portrait of morality. Saving a stranger from being graped by giving his daughter and concubine to the mob as substitute; chopping the concubine up into 12 pieces to ship across the tribes; forming an army in Judges 20 and starting a war with the tribe of the guilty persons, which leads to about 40,000 Israelite deaths and wipes out all but the young boys of the tribe; and then stealing almost a thousand of two neighboring tribes' women by force to offer the remaining boys to marry them.

Who's being punished? Because this is misery on all fronts. Is it the man offering his concubine and daughter, being punished by the former's death? Is it the Benjaminites, being teamwiped before being given another chance? Is it the neighboring, uninvolved peoples, whose women were stolen and married off? Or is it the entire tribe of Israel with the 40,000 deaths???

>>6894
oops, forgot the > before the quote. My bad.

>>6894
Let's take a look at the passage to find out.

Judges 19:1-10
And it came to pass in those days, when there was no king in Israel, that there was a certain Levite sojourning on the side of mount Ephraim, who took to him a concubine out of Bethlehemjudah.
And his concubine played the whore against him, and went away from him unto her father's house to Bethlehemjudah, and was there four whole months.
And her husband arose, and went after her, to speak friendly unto her, and to bring her again, having his servant with him, and a couple of asses: and she brought him into her father's house: and when the father of the damsel saw him, he rejoiced to meet him.
And his father in law, the damsel's father, retained him; and he abode with him three days: so they did eat and drink, and lodged there.
And it came to pass on the fourth day, when they arose early in the morning, that he rose up to depart: and the damsel's father said unto his son in law, Comfort thine heart with a morsel of bread, and afterward go your way.
And they sat down, and did eat and drink both of them together: for the damsel's father had said unto the man, Be content, I pray thee, and tarry all night, and let thine heart be merry.
And when the man rose up to depart, his father in law urged him: therefore he lodged there again.
And he arose early in the morning on the fifth day to depart: and the damsel's father said, Comfort thine heart, I pray thee. And they tarried until afternoon, and they did eat both of them.
And when the man rose up to depart, he, and his concubine, and his servant, his father in law, the damsel's father, said unto him, Behold, now the day draweth toward evening, I pray you tarry all night: behold, the day groweth to an end, lodge here, that thine heart may be merry; and to morrow get you early on your way, that thou mayest go home.
But the man would not tarry that night, but he rose up and departed, and came over against Jebus, which is Jerusalem; and there were with him two asses saddled, his concubine also was with him.

First off, this revolves around a Levite. This is very important to note because they were a tribe specifically called to be priests. They could not do whatever they wanted. Think a nunnery today. They had a strict moral code. We find this guy having a side piece and, surprise surprise, she runs off to be a whore. What a shock. Someone you only took for sex ran off to find more sex?

We find him chasing after this lady and winds up staying at her house with the father for days on end. Don't you have a job to be doing? I guess this side piece is the most important thing on his mind.

Judges 19:11-22
And when they were by Jebus, the day was far spent; and the servant said unto his master, Come, I pray thee, and let us turn in into this city of the Jebusites, and lodge in it.
And his master said unto him, We will not turn aside hither into the city of a stranger, that is not of the children of Israel; we will pass over to Gibeah.
And he said unto his servant, Come, and let us draw near to one of these places to lodge all night, in Gibeah, or in Ramah.
And they passed on and went their way; and the sun went down upon them when they were by Gibeah, which belongeth to Benjamin.
And they turned aside thither, to go in and to lodge in Gibeah: and when he went in, he sat him down in a street of the city: for there was no man that took them into his house to lodging.
And, behold, there came an old man from his work out of the field at even, which was also of mount Ephraim; and he sojourned in Gibeah: but the men of the place were Benjamites.
And when he had lifted up his eyes, he saw a wayfaring man in the street of the city: and the old man said, Whither goest thou? and whence comest thou?
And he said unto him, We are passing from Bethlehemjudah toward the side of mount Ephraim; from thence am I: and I went to Bethlehemjudah, but I am now going to the house of the LORD; and there is no man that receiveth me to house.
Yet there is both straw and provender for our asses; and there is bread and wine also for me, and for thy handmaid, and for the young man which is with thy servants: there is no want of any thing.
And the old man said, Peace be with thee; howsoever let all thy wants lie upon me; only lodge not in the street.
So he brought him into his house, and gave provender unto the asses: and they washed their feet, and did eat and drink.
Now as they were making their hearts merry, behold, the men of the city, certain sons of Belial, beset the house round about, and beat at the door, and spake to the master of the house, the old man, saying, Bring forth the man that came into thine house, that we may know him.

So, we pick back up with the guy who has made a detour to try and get back home, being so delayed. He comes to rest in a place with no plan. Lodging isn't always available in the region of Benjamen, as Mary and Joseph will find out over a thousand years on. Given that this guy has servants to tell this to, he ought to have been smart enough for that, but I guess chasing women doesn't help in the IQ department.

He decides, fuck it, I will sleep in the street. A guy offers to take him off the street. Kind guy, but he doesn't know what this guy has been up to or the attention he brought to himself sleeping in the slums. The key phrasing here is "there is both straw and provender for our asses; and there is bread and wine also for me, and for thy handmaid, and for the young man which is with thy servants: there is no want of any thing". In other words, he looks fairly well to do and is sleeping in the slums.

>>6896
Well, unfortunately evil people exist in slums. He was noticed and followed to the kind guy's house. They are labeled as sons of Belial, aka the worthless ones, this is in the form of crazy people, murderers, and queers. We know this because they are asking "Bring forth the man that came into thine house, that we may know him", in other words they want to fuck the rich guy. They might also be doing this out of a desire to get back at richy for making them live in slums. Regardless of intent, they are intent on pure evil. Would be happening if this priest wasn't a fucking dumbass and immoral, which seems to be the point of this lesson. Let's continue.

Judges 19:23-30
And the man, the master of the house, went out unto them, and said unto them, Nay, my brethren, nay, I pray you, do not so wickedly; seeing that this man is come into mine house, do not this folly.
Behold, here is my daughter a maiden, and his concubine; them I will bring out now, and humble ye them, and do with them what seemeth good unto you: but unto this man do not so vile a thing.
But the men would not hearken to him: so the man took his concubine, and brought her forth unto them; and they knew her, and abused her all the night until the morning: and when the day began to spring, they let her go.
Then came the woman in the dawning of the day, and fell down at the door of the man's house where her lord was, till it was light.
And her lord rose up in the morning, and opened the doors of the house, and went out to go his way: and, behold, the woman his concubine was fallen down at the door of the house, and her hands were upon the threshold.
And he said unto her, Up, and let us be going. But none answered. Then the man took her up upon an ass, and the man rose up, and gat him unto his place.
And when he was come into his house, he took a knife, and laid hold on his concubine, and divided her, together with her bones, into twelve pieces, and sent her into all the coasts of Israel.
And it was so, that all that saw it said, There was no such deed done nor seen from the day that the children of Israel came up out of the land of Egypt unto this day: consider of it, take advice, and speak your minds.

You might wonder why they would cave into the demands. Well, remember that the guy that offered a place to stay was considered an old man, and it is doubtful the priest would be able to hold back a bunch of crazy rapists and they might just decide to burn the house down, so they caved. But instead of letting them be homos, they offered women. This is very odd by modern understanding, but they hated the gay so much back then that if there was no way out without everyone being raped or killed, they sacrificed the women to keep the gay away.

Definitely not the bravest types on display. But we are about to see the madness get worse. The children of Belial rape the host's daughter and the sidepiece that the priest had. When that is over after an entire night, the priest just shrugs it off and demands the woman come along. She doesn't respond. She is absolutely broken by abuse. So, naturally, the priest takes her away, kills her, and sends different parts of her all across the land... wait... so this fuck head that only thought about sex was actually a bad person this whole time and disposed of his sex toy without any feeling whatsoever? Can't be a moral to this story at all. This sort of things also never happens and can't be discussed about in the Bible to avoid and to learn from. Can't imagine it.

Judges 20:1-10
Then all the children of Israel went out, and the congregation was gathered together as one man, from Dan even to Beersheba, with the land of Gilead, unto the LORD in Mizpeh.
And the chief of all the people, even of all the tribes of Israel, presented themselves in the assembly of the people of God, four hundred thousand footmen that drew sword.
(Now the children of Benjamin heard that the children of Israel were gone up to Mizpeh.) Then said the children of Israel, Tell us, how was this wickedness?
And the Levite, the husband of the woman that was slain, answered and said, I came into Gibeah that belongeth to Benjamin, I and my concubine, to lodge.
And the men of Gibeah rose against me, and beset the house round about upon me by night, and thought to have slain me: and my concubine have they forced, that she is dead.
And I took my concubine, and cut her in pieces, and sent her throughout all the country of the inheritance of Israel: for they have committed lewdness and folly in Israel.
Behold, ye are all children of Israel; give here your advice and counsel.
And all the people arose as one man, saying, We will not any of us go to his tent, neither will we any of us turn into his house.
But now this shall be the thing which we will do to Gibeah; we will go up by lot against it;
And we will take ten men of an hundred throughout all the tribes of Israel, and an hundred of a thousand, and a thousand out of ten thousand, to fetch victual for the people, that they may do, when they come to Gibeah of Benjamin, according to all the folly that they have wrought in Israel.

And now the guy plays the victim. Now, the hard thing to have to wrap your head around is that even though this guy is a piece of actual shit, he has a point. What was done to him was wrong, even though he is a merciless killer himself and a terrible priest. He was nearly raped, innocent people got raped, and the city is not arresting or killing any of these people. It is time for action. It is only a shame that such a person is able to ride the waves of righteous fury to dodge responsibility.

>>6896
>>6897
Wow, I really didn't expect this much detail. This is actually quite enlightening, thanks man. I'm frankly ignorant to the many tribes of Israel and the groups involved, and to hear all of this laid out in the queen's English adds a lot of context. Now I'm actually curious enough to do some research into the depictions of Belial throughout the bible to know more about them.

>>6897
Judges 20:11-18
So all the men of Israel were gathered against the city, knit together as one man.
And the tribes of Israel sent men through all the tribe of Benjamin, saying, What wickedness is this that is done among you?
Now therefore deliver us the men, the children of Belial, which are in Gibeah, that we may put them to death, and put away evil from Israel. But the children of Benjamin would not hearken to the voice of their brethren the children of Israel:
But the children of Benjamin gathered themselves together out of the cities unto Gibeah, to go out to battle against the children of Israel.
And the children of Benjamin were numbered at that time out of the cities twenty and six thousand men that drew sword, beside the inhabitants of Gibeah, which were numbered seven hundred chosen men.
Among all this people there were seven hundred chosen men lefthanded; every one could sling stones at an hair breadth, and not miss.
And the men of Israel, beside Benjamin, were numbered four hundred thousand men that drew sword: all these were men of war.
And the children of Israel arose, and went up to the house of God, and asked counsel of God, and said, Which of us shall go up first to the battle against the children of Benjamin? And the LORD said, Judah shall go up first.

So, they go over to the city and demand justice. The city is all like: diversity is our strength, rapist rights!
So yeah, war was definitely on the table. They were aiding and protecting these absolute scumbags that rape women all night for fun. God says let them have it. I don't see the moral issue here.

Judges 20:19-25
And the children of Israel rose up in the morning, and encamped against Gibeah.
And the men of Israel went out to battle against Benjamin; and the men of Israel put themselves in array to fight against them at Gibeah.
And the children of Benjamin came forth out of Gibeah, and destroyed down to the ground of the Israelites that day twenty and two thousand men.
And the people the men of Israel encouraged themselves, and set their battle again in array in the place where they put themselves in array the first day.
(And the children of Israel went up and wept before the LORD until even, and asked counsel of the LORD, saying, Shall I go up again to battle against the children of Benjamin my brother? And the LORD said, Go up against him.)
And the children of Israel came near against the children of Benjamin the second day.
And Benjamin went forth against them out of Gibeah the second day, and destroyed down to the ground of the children of Israel again eighteen thousand men; all these drew the sword.
Then all the children of Israel, and all the people, went up, and came unto the house of God, and wept, and sat there before the LORD, and fasted that day until even, and offered burnt offerings and peace offerings before the LORD.
And the children of Israel enquired of the LORD, (for the ark of the covenant of God was there in those days,
And Phinehas, the son of Eleazar, the son of Aaron, stood before it in those days,) saying, Shall I yet again go out to battle against the children of Benjamin my brother, or shall I cease? And the LORD said, Go up; for to morrow I will deliver them into thine hand.
And Israel set liers in wait round about Gibeah.
And the children of Israel went up against the children of Benjamin on the third day, and put themselves in array against Gibeah, as at other times.
And the children of Benjamin went out against the people, and were drawn away from the city; and they began to smite of the people, and kill, as at other times, in the highways, of which one goeth up to the house of God, and the other to Gibeah in the field, about thirty men of Israel.
And the children of Benjamin said, They are smitten down before us, as at the first. But the children of Israel said, Let us flee, and draw them from the city unto the highways.
And all the men of Israel rose up out of their place, and put themselves in array at Baaltamar: and the liers in wait of Israel came forth out of their places, even out of the meadows of Gibeah.
And there came against Gibeah ten thousand chosen men out of all Israel, and the battle was sore: but they knew not that evil was near them.
And the LORD smote Benjamin before Israel: and the children of Israel destroyed of the Benjamites that day twenty and five thousand and an hundred men: all these drew the sword.

This is packed full of details. First, there are losses for Israel. The people that want to do good sometimes get killed? What kind of God allows death? Well, that is part of living in a world with sin, war, and decay. People die. There is a massive enemy force and they seem better equipped and skilled than this army that is fighting for justice. This is reality. God could have made everyone totally invincible if He wanted to, but first of all, who would believe a story where everyone lives and the bad guys all get wiped out instantly? Second, there is a cost to doing what is right, especially so delayed from when you should have intervened. The time for action was not when the murderer priest called for action. It was when there were queers forming in cities nearby. You don't just allow this evil and not pay the price when you ignore it.

So, yes, people died that should not have died. People were raped that should not have been raped. It is clear that this is a lesson in avoiding this in the future, learned the hard way by men thousands of years ago. It is also fairly early into the formation of Israel. They didn't have total control of the region, so you can't put the blame completely on them for not being completely on top of things, but they definitely could have been on top of the priest that is taking sidepieces. Could have stopped it then and there.

>>6898
Details really help explain the nature of what is occurring, which is why I really like the King James Version. You sometimes have to reread it a bunch to get the meaning because it is older and not as immediately apparent, but the details are very precise because it is not oversimplifying or dumbing it down. You get as much as they could pack in the translation without going off script. It is always worth a look.

>>6899
Judges 20:26-48
Then all the children of Israel, and all the people, went up, and came unto the house of God, and wept, and sat there before the LORD, and fasted that day until even, and offered burnt offerings and peace offerings before the LORD.
And the children of Israel enquired of the LORD, (for the ark of the covenant of God was there in those days,
And Phinehas, the son of Eleazar, the son of Aaron, stood before it in those days,) saying, Shall I yet again go out to battle against the children of Benjamin my brother, or shall I cease? And the LORD said, Go up; for to morrow I will deliver them into thine hand.
And Israel set liers in wait round about Gibeah.
And the children of Israel went up against the children of Benjamin on the third day, and put themselves in array against Gibeah, as at other times.
And the children of Benjamin went out against the people, and were drawn away from the city; and they began to smite of the people, and kill, as at other times, in the highways, of which one goeth up to the house of God, and the other to Gibeah in the field, about thirty men of Israel.
And the children of Benjamin said, They are smitten down before us, as at the first. But the children of Israel said, Let us flee, and draw them from the city unto the highways.
And all the men of Israel rose up out of their place, and put themselves in array at Baaltamar: and the liers in wait of Israel came forth out of their places, even out of the meadows of Gibeah.
And there came against Gibeah ten thousand chosen men out of all Israel, and the battle was sore: but they knew not that evil was near them.
And the LORD smote Benjamin before Israel: and the children of Israel destroyed of the Benjamites that day twenty and five thousand and an hundred men: all these drew the sword.
So the children of Benjamin saw that they were smitten: for the men of Israel gave place to the Benjamites, because they trusted unto the liers in wait which they had set beside Gibeah.
And the liers in wait hasted, and rushed upon Gibeah; and the liers in wait drew themselves along, and smote all the city with the edge of the sword.
Now there was an appointed sign between the men of Israel and the liers in wait, that they should make a great flame with smoke rise up out of the city.
And when the men of Israel retired in the battle, Benjamin began to smite and kill of the men of Israel about thirty persons: for they said, Surely they are smitten down before us, as in the first battle.
But when the flame began to arise up out of the city with a pillar of smoke, the Benjamites looked behind them, and, behold, the flame of the city ascended up to heaven.
And when the men of Israel turned again, the men of Benjamin were amazed: for they saw that evil was come upon them.
Therefore they turned their backs before the men of Israel unto the way of the wilderness; but the battle overtook them; and them which came out of the cities they destroyed in the midst of them.
Thus they inclosed the Benjamites round about, and chased them, and trode them down with ease over against Gibeah toward the sunrising.
And there fell of Benjamin eighteen thousand men; all these were men of valour.
And they turned and fled toward the wilderness unto the rock of Rimmon: and they gleaned of them in the highways five thousand men; and pursued hard after them unto Gidom, and slew two thousand men of them.
So that all which fell that day of Benjamin were twenty and five thousand men that drew the sword; all these were men of valour.
But six hundred men turned and fled to the wilderness unto the rock Rimmon, and abode in the rock Rimmon four months.
And the men of Israel turned again upon the children of Benjamin, and smote them with the edge of the sword, as well the men of every city, as the beast, and all that came to hand: also they set on fire all the cities that they came to.

So, the rest of the passage talks about the results of the war. IT covers a plan that Israel carried out that hide some guys so they would draw out the forces and then rush the city when everyone was outside in battle. With the city on fire and people escaping, they encircled the troops that were stunned at the strategy and chaos, and only 600 of their force were able to retreat.

Then Israel purged the cities. People will likely point to this out of everything in here as being immoral. Some of the people that were purged probably were not guilty, but they did side with the city and didn't get out of dodge during the battle, didn't aid the forces demanding justice, didn't revolt or demand the leadership yield. It seems the majority agreed. Perhaps the minority that opposed did leave and we were not told or the Israelite army was not aware of the departure. Regardless, purges were not uncommon to be certain, and removing people that either openly or secretly support evil acts tends to have better results long term than letting them just do it over again. Perhaps it is harsh, but I fail to see that it is evil in itself.

>>6901
Now here comes the part that is the actual problem with the situation, the aftermath.

Judges 21:1-25
Now the men of Israel had sworn in Mizpeh, saying, There shall not any of us give his daughter unto Benjamin to wife.
And the people came to the house of God, and abode there till even before God, and lifted up their voices, and wept sore;
And said, O LORD God of Israel, why is this come to pass in Israel, that there should be to day one tribe lacking in Israel?
And it came to pass on the morrow, that the people rose early, and built there an altar, and offered burnt offerings and peace offerings.
And the children of Israel said, Who is there among all the tribes of Israel that came not up with the congregation unto the LORD? For they had made a great oath concerning him that came not up to the LORD to Mizpeh, saying, He shall surely be put to death.
And the children of Israel repented them for Benjamin their brother, and said, There is one tribe cut off from Israel this day.
How shall we do for wives for them that remain, seeing we have sworn by the LORD that we will not give them of our daughters to wives?
And they said, What one is there of the tribes of Israel that came not up to Mizpeh to the LORD? And, behold, there came none to the camp from Jabeshgilead to the assembly.
For the people were numbered, and, behold, there were none of the inhabitants of Jabeshgilead there.
And the congregation sent thither twelve thousand men of the valiantest, and commanded them, saying, Go and smite the inhabitants of Jabeshgilead with the edge of the sword, with the women and the children.
And this is the thing that ye shall do, Ye shall utterly destroy every male, and every woman that hath lain by man.
And they found among the inhabitants of Jabeshgilead four hundred young virgins, that had known no man by lying with any male: and they brought them unto the camp to Shiloh, which is in the land of Canaan.
And the whole congregation sent some to speak to the children of Benjamin that were in the rock Rimmon, and to call peaceably unto them.
And Benjamin came again at that time; and they gave them wives which they had saved alive of the women of Jabeshgilead: and yet so they sufficed them not.
And the people repented them for Benjamin, because that the LORD had made a breach in the tribes of Israel.
Then the elders of the congregation said, How shall we do for wives for them that remain, seeing the women are destroyed out of Benjamin?
And they said, There must be an inheritance for them that be escaped of Benjamin, that a tribe be not destroyed out of Israel.
Howbeit we may not give them wives of our daughters: for the children of Israel have sworn, saying, Cursed be he that giveth a wife to Benjamin.
Then they said, Behold, there is a feast of the LORD in Shiloh yearly in a place which is on the north side of Bethel, on the east side of the highway that goeth up from Bethel to Shechem, and on the south of Lebonah.
Therefore they commanded the children of Benjamin, saying, Go and lie in wait in the vineyards;
And see, and, behold, if the daughters of Shiloh come out to dance in dances, then come ye out of the vineyards, and catch you every man his wife of the daughters of Shiloh, and go to the land of Benjamin.
And it shall be, when their fathers or their brethren come unto us to complain, that we will say unto them, Be favourable unto them for our sakes: because we reserved not to each man his wife in the war: for ye did not give unto them at this time, that ye should be guilty.
And the children of Benjamin did so, and took them wives, according to their number, of them that danced, whom they caught: and they went and returned unto their inheritance, and repaired the cities, and dwelt in them.
And the children of Israel departed thence at that time, every man to his tribe and to his family, and they went out from thence every man to his inheritance.
In those days there was no king in Israel: every man did that which was right in his own eyes.

So, the people of Israel do one thing correct here in their understanding that this is a major problem. One of the tribes of Israel is basically wiped out. There is a likelihood that the tribe won't recover without some action, which is a problem because God plans to use the tribe of Benjermin in the future. Instead of asking God about it though, they plan to wipe out another city that didn't help. To be fair, I would be pissed that thousands died in battle and these fuckers just said 'who cares about some bitch getting raped, not my problem and not my war'. I don't think wiping them out and then forcing marriages is the wisest move to rebuild, but that is what they went with. It is sort of their own fault as well for swearing to God that they will not give any wife to Benjermin from their own tribes. Kind of fucked yourself with that promise. I don't see in the text that God demanded that oath, so I think they just wanted to punish them further without realizing they can't go back on a promise they made otherwise they would be punished for lying to God. Dumbasses.

Well, they run into another problem. They bring back the spared virgins from the fuck you city with everyone else dead, and then this happens "and they gave them wives which they had saved alive of the women of Jabeshgilead: and yet so they sufficed them not". I am not completely sure what this means. Perhaps they aren't getting along because they just caused the deaths of all of their friends and family, making it not a great time in bed, maybe they were infertile, maybe they were just grade A bitches and annoyed everyone. Short of it was, they weren't working out. Fucking brilliant.

So, the hatch a brilliant plan, to kidnap women that are out dancing. Foolproof. And when people naturally take issue, they will basically say sorry, but it was the only way plus you owe us. I believe the ending to this chapter is a perfect summary.

In those days there was no king in Israel: every man did that which was right in his own eyes.

>>6902
There are many lessons to learn from all of this, like not letting psycho priests get away with sin or you might start a tribal war that makes you consider kidnapping women to rebuild, which makes you only slightly less warped than the rapists you set out to kill. A lot of mess can be solved with some oversight and standards. Plus, fuck queers.

I had originally planned to talk about Phinehas because that is a name that comes up later, but I believe I have misidentified him. This is Phinehas, son of Eleazar. The Phinehas that appears later in the Bible is Phinehas, son of Eli. That is a story for another time, but I definitely need to cover it. But it seems that Eli's Phinehas might have been given that name in remembrance of this one.

>>7086
>>7108
>>7109
I don't understand why you believe there is an exception to your spam here, especially since you keep posting things that simultaneously support and denounce the truthfulness of the Bible. Regardless, your selection to copy/paste this time does not reflect the conclusion to the article that you also posted a picture of, which creates two conflicting messages. If people only bother to read what you posted, they will conclude Jesus is a scam made by Jews to be liked more, despite them making themselves out to be evil throughout the New Testament.

Your picture of the conclusion does rectify this, but your lack of input once again undermines your conclusion. It is like having a headline that reads "We are at war!!!" and the actual content of the article says we fight against illiteracy.

The conclusion is correct. The Jews would publicly stone Paul for what he said, which would not be wise to do with your lead teacher in the new faith that is supposed to usurp the whole world. Paul making it up also doesn't make sense because Paul was a convert by the confession of different authors. He came on the scene later than the origin of the religion.

Furthermore, if it was their invention, not only was it so bad at setting them into power that it took two thousand years to finally get a foothold, they shot themselves in the foot in now they have to propagate the destruction of Christianity to rid themselves of those that know there is no Messiah still coming for the Jews to aid them ruling the world. Jesus gave the world over to the gentiles, which means that the Jews can't hold claim under Christianity, as the world isn't theirs to take. So, they used the worst religious structure possible to achieve their objectives and it was their 5D chess to be undermined for two thousand years and then destroy their secret Jew power cult to gain more power as proven by their moves to remove iconography, prayers, and religious teachings in school systems by actions from groups like the ADL when it is simultaneously the most effective infiltration system they have. This is why I can't take the position seriously. Christianity always has been a thorn in their side. It is just the IQ of people that leads to the results we see, as people can't be bothered to read.

>>7111 (trips checked)
>I don't understand why you believe there is an exception to your spam here
This.
He does this in every thread. He randomly posts a low-quality caption meme, or copy-pastes some greentext from some crappy internet tabloid he's read, and contributes nothing to the conversation, aside from the occasional unsupported hot take.
Then when you ask him to elaborate on what he's trying to communicate he gets all defensive and calls you a shill, or just shits up the thread with nonsense accusations or smug reaction images.
Every thread inevitably gets flooded with this crap, and it's obvious that it's all one guy because he has that telltale "this shit again" posting style.

>>7111
>you keep posting things that simultaneously support and denounce the truthfulness of the Bible
>Regardless, your selection to copy/paste this time does not reflect the conclusion to the article that you also posted a picture of, which creates two conflicting messages
He does this in every thread. He posts links and memes that contradict eachother with no coherent meaning.
Sometimes he sticks to the threads without poster IDs so that it's less obvious that he doesn't know what he's talking about, even though he's samefagging with mutually exclusive narratives.
>Your picture of the conclusion does rectify this, but your lack of input once again undermines your conclusion
There is no conclusion. He's just thoughtlessly reposting it with the same level of critical thinking as the average Facebook poster. I don't know if he even believes what he posts.

>>7111
>especially since you keep posting things that simultaneously support and denounce the truthfulness of the Bible.
>>7113
>He does this in every thread. He posts links and memes that contradict eachother with no coherent meaning.
Since you both are low IQ borderline retarded and expect direct programming without conflicting views instead of to making your mind yourselves........
This is an recurrent issue in this website, some anons only post to attack a shitposter instead of discussing new ideas or post new ones. The pathetic state of themselves.

>>7111
>you keep posting things that simultaneously support and denounce the truthfulness of the Bible.
>>7086 and >>7109 supports the Bible; >>7108 discusses right-wing neo-pagan ideas trying to rebut the Bible but concludes the arguments are fallacious and incomplete, them the Bible and Christianity keep being valid.
In conclusion, you jumped the gun just to attack my post without even comprehend >>7108.
Also make yourself a big favor and KYS.

>>7114
>making your mind yourselves
Fucking hell. You are so full of shit.
We're all completely capable of making up our own minds. What we're sick of is (You) shitting up the place with your spam, with which you often post with no personal input or attempt to perpetuate conversation.
>expect direct programming
We don't expect any programming, and we especially don't want your constant stream of Facebook-tier goyslops.
>instead of
>implying
This entire site is built on the priority of quality over quantity. There are regular posters here; they just don't post at the rate that your Facebook or Instagram feed does. People only bother to post about it because you've been progressively shitting up the board with your spam for the past 2-3 years.
And there we go again with the smug reaction posting and baseless accusations, coupled with the delusion of persecution when people respond to your crap with any measure of negativity.

>>7117
>You are so full of shit.
It goes both ways. If you don't like some posts then make your own, faggot.
Also you resent memes and reaction ponies. Do you know where you are?

>>7117
>This entire site is built on the priority of quality over quantity.
Did you even read >>7108? It is a top thought provoking article and you have no better idea than kvetching about it based on... "i don't like the poster style". Seriously?

>>7116
Because your summery of events imply the Bible being false.
>>A 2000-Year-Old Rabbinical Psyop: Did Jews Invent Christianity to Deceive Gentiles?
>>Anyone reading White Nationalist literature is bound to come across articles hostile to Christianity. The foremost claim appears to be that Christianity itself was invented by Jews (whether by Saint Paul or some unknown rabbinical cabal) for the purpose of deceiving gentiles. Christianity was devised by Jews, then, as a way of conditioning gentiles to be sympathetic to Jews and Jewish causes and take down the Roman Empire with its radically different ethics. It was a means of influencing them from the beginning to oppose Rome, its power, and its paganism.
>>By portraying Christianity’s greatest hero as a humble Jewish carpenter turned Messiah, along with his Jewish apostles and, particularly, by “rabbi” Paul as its foremost theologian who shaped what Christians were to believe, gentiles would unknowingly turn out to be great proponents of all things Jewish.
Implying that green intro is true.
Followes up with your post.
>>7109

>>7121
>Because your summery of events imply the Bible being false.
>Implying that green intro is true.
Exactly, and because I counted with that retarded reaction of judging without to even read it, I added a second pic with the article's conclusion as preemptive measure against the low quality anons populating this site.

>>7121
>>7109
>It's not that I don't care.
>I have insider information.
Memes aren't just
TOP TEXT
BOTTOM TEXT
They're not Faceburg nu-pol swill. I know you think bot infestested nu-/pol/ is the gold standard for memes but that's not the case.
>>7123
... you're a shit poster not a shitposter.
Why not just post the conclusion.

>>7123
>low quality anons populating this site
Said the nigger to the kettle.

>>7124
>>7126
WOW

>>7108
This is hardly even bible study. It's just vaguely related to Christianity.

>>7127
WOW!
>the low quality anons populating this site.
Golly gee wilikers better post some more TOP TEXT BOTTOM TEXT and Smuggies.
>>7125
>>7126
That's a little uncalled for. We haven't quite reached that comparison yet.
>>7127
Your getting push back because of posting habits.
Because of everything all the tiny straws are mounting up to break the camel's back.

>>7128
>>7129
You both have to apologize. Derailing this thread with your petty squabbles in not right.

>>7130
As do you. You've derailed the thread.
This isn't Christianity General. It's Bible Study.
>>3411
>Discuss and study the Bible

>>7130
You replied to every one of those posts with more shitposts, doubling the shitposts.
I apologize for nothing.
Also, pretty sure one of those posters is OP. You should apologize to him.

2 Corinthians 3:6 Who also hath made us able ministers of the new testament; not of the letter, but of the spirit: for the letter killeth, but the spirit giveth life.
(A selection from the Bible before the next section.)

We're going to be going through the Bible in spirit.
<When you feel The Holy Spirit moving as you read, letters jumping off the page, new and old connections. I'd like to say thanks, for He is trustworthy.
Each section a line(s) pulled out to consider as we read.
>For therein is the righteousness of God revealed from faith to faith: as it is written, The just shall live by faith.
Starting at Romans.
Romans 1
King James Version
>1 Paul, a servant of Jesus Christ, called to be an apostle, separated unto the gospel of God,
>2 (Which he had promised afore by his prophets in the holy scriptures,)
>3 Concerning his Son Jesus Christ our Lord, which was made of the seed of David according to the flesh;
>4 And declared to be the Son of God with power, according to the spirit of holiness, by the resurrection from the dead:
>5 By whom we have received grace and apostleship, for obedience to the faith among all nations, for his name:
>6 Among whom are ye also the called of Jesus Christ:
>7 To all that be in Rome, beloved of God, called to be saints: Grace to you and peace from God our Father, and the Lord Jesus Christ.
>8 First, I thank my God through Jesus Christ for you all, that your faith is spoken of throughout the whole world.
>9 For God is my witness, whom I serve with my spirit in the gospel of his Son, that without ceasing I make mention of you always in my prayers;
>10 Making request, if by any means now at length I might have a prosperous journey by the will of God to come unto you.
>11 For I long to see you, that I may impart unto you some spiritual gift, to the end ye may be established;
>12 That is, that I may be comforted together with you by the mutual faith both of you and me.
>13 Now I would not have you ignorant, brethren, that oftentimes I purposed to come unto you, (but was let hitherto,) that I might have some fruit among you also, even as among other Gentiles.
>14 I am debtor both to the Greeks, and to the Barbarians; both to the wise, and to the unwise.
>15 So, as much as in me is, I am ready to preach the gospel to you that are at Rome also.
>16 For I am not ashamed of the gospel of Christ: for it is the power of God unto salvation to every one that believeth; to the Jew first, and also to the Greek.
>17 For therein is the righteousness of God revealed from faith to faith: as it is written, The just shall live by faith.
>18 For the wrath of God is revealed from heaven against all ungodliness and unrighteousness of men, who hold the truth in unrighteousness;
>19 Because that which may be known of God is manifest in them; for God hath shewed it unto them.
>20 For the invisible things of him from the creation of the world are clearly seen, being understood by the things that are made, even his eternal power and Godhead; so that they are without excuse:
>21 Because that, when they knew God, they glorified him not as God, neither were thankful; but became vain in their imaginations, and their foolish heart was darkened.
>22 Professing themselves to be wise, they became fools,
>23 And changed the glory of the uncorruptible God into an image made like to corruptible man, and to birds, and fourfooted beasts, and creeping things.
>24 Wherefore God also gave them up to uncleanness through the lusts of their own hearts, to dishonour their own bodies between themselves:
>25 Who changed the truth of God into a lie, and worshipped and served the creature more than the Creator, who is blessed for ever. Amen.
>26 For this cause God gave them up unto vile affections: for even their women did change the natural use into that which is against nature:
>27 And likewise also the men, leaving the natural use of the woman, burned in their lust one toward another; men with men working that which is unseemly, and receiving in themselves that recompence of their error which was meet.
>28 And even as they did not like to retain God in their knowledge, God gave them over to a reprobate mind, to do those things which are not convenient;
>29 Being filled with all unrighteousness, fornication, wickedness, covetousness, maliciousness; full of envy, murder, debate, deceit, malignity; whisperers,
>30 Backbiters, haters of God, despiteful, proud, boasters, inventors of evil things, disobedient to parents,
>31 Without understanding, covenantbreakers, without natural affection, implacable, unmerciful:
>32 Who knowing the judgment of God, that they which commit such things are worthy of death, not only do the same, but have pleasure in them that do them.
It's impossible for fallen man to please God as God deserves in any other way besides faith in (and through) Jesus.
This first section looks to summarise Jesus, God and what happened in the Old Testament.
The beginning is a preface for the rest of the letter.
Who Paul is, who the letter is for.
The Good News written because he is not able to make it to Rome in person.
<23-32
This also shows how and why God gives what they desire and that too is punishment. They desired to be even further away from God.
To be as far away as possible and deserving of all that befalls on them.
Looks like it's all doom now as the impossibility of righting a broken relationship is out of their hands.
Which at the lowest point Paul shares the Good News in the next section if I'm correctly recalling.

>>7114
>>7116
You are literally too retarded to realize I am OP and previously answered you way back here
>>6868
Which does NOT support the truthfulness of the Bible. You probably don't even remember because you only copy/paste everything and don't read my posts as you look for more articles. You are asking the OP you are spamming with random images to kill himself. Take that in. You have your own specified spam thread allowed by the staff and you come here to post more, do a shit job copying/pasting, get called out, and I am the problem for hosting a BIBLE STUDY thread and not wanting an image that says "I have insider information" as that helps the BIBLE STUDY so much.

>>7123
I literally mentioned this in my response. I said that should you ignore your image and just read the actual content of your post, you advocated for the opposite of the image. This is a bad job on your part, because you offered nothing of substance to your post. Return to your containment if you aren't going to either study the Bible or debate Bible stuff. Your articles do nothing for this thread because you refuse to engage.
>>7124
>why not post the conclusion
Exactly my point.
>>7127
And apparently copy/pasting the correct portion of the article is too hard for you.
>>7130
>WAHHHH
>YOU HAVE TO APOLOGIZE
How about apologizing for not staying in your lane with your content? You promised to stay there with this shit. If you post an article and want answers, I want engagement. You have proven I have been typing into the void as you didn't read a single thing I have posted.

>>7139
Hi OP. Everything is fine, but the post count has to go up.

>>7141
>but the post count has to go up
Spamming to increase shitty numbers is worse than nothing.

>>7142
It would be unnecessary all that trouble if at least the anons would post some fillies.

>>7143
Or talked about THE BIBLE. It's a Bible study thread. Talk about the book.

>>7141
>>7143
Post count does not need to go up. If you are hard wired to make number bigger, do not use this thread unless you intend to actually study the Bible, ask questions because you are curious about the answer, or intend to debate Biblical doctrine. You can post your articles in your specialized threads in your own location. You bumped this thread to my utter disappointment because you had no intention to actually interact. I always perk up to this thread only to realize each and every time that no one actually gives a shit and you use this as more territory for yourself and yourself alone.

>>3411
cucKing (((James))) banned the word: "tyrant" from the (((jew-king yames))) version, particularly """jeremiah 15:21""". Yet, hilariously, "tyrant" was used in the (((geneva))) version. Not only that, the word """witch""" was never used outside of the cucKing (((james))) version; all others used the word 'poisoner'.

Stay sheepled.

>>7306
One of these days, someone will actually want to use my thread for a Bible study and not bump it with trash. Or maybe not. Let's tackle your highly sourced refutation of the Bible.

There is no word tyrant and witch is used. Wow. Excellent work. The whole Bible is now useless. But let's examine this part by part and not just take your word for it and we will get a clear understanding if there is a flaw at all.

Jeremiah 15:21 from the King James Bible
And I will deliver thee out of the hand of the wicked, and I will redeem thee out of the hand of the terrible.

Terrible from the day this was written in was not simply a denotation of badness, but the root of the word was focused on, terror. Terrible can be a good thing in rare circumstances, most familiarly to fans of the Lord of the Rings movies. In Fellowship of the Ring, Galadriel states she will be "terrible as the dawn". The dawn is not something that normally inspires fear or something that is understood as bad. Instead she is stating that it will be as notable as this event, the power associated with the dawn. Is this what the verse is indicating in context?

I believe that it is actually in line with the classic meaning. Someone that is terrible is projecting terror upon others, specifically God saving you from those that have you in their hands. Thus, this is a synonym for tyrant, as the tyrant instills terror upon the people in his hand, or under his power.

But let's examine further what both translation offer in comparison to the original scripts.

Jeremiah 15:21 from the Geneva Bible
And I will deliver thee out of the hand of the wicked, and I will redeem thee out of the hand of the tyrants.

But perhaps it looks too much like an edit to save face for the king. If the original script says tyrant specifically, there can be no excuse.

Jeremiah 15:21 from the Greek Septuagint translation of the Hebrew Bible
"καὶ ἐξαιρεῖσθαί σε ἐκ χειρὸς πονηρῶν καὶ λυτρώσομαί σε ἐκ χειρὸς λοιμῶν."

The word we are looking for is λοιμῶν, which translates to pestilence, a pest, or a public menace.

Oops. You just saw the change without looking into the original text. The King James version just translated public menace as terrible ones and the Geneva version translated it tyrants completely independently of each other by looking for a good word to describe pests that have power over people.

I will assume the same exists for witch as well. You provide no quotes for that, but I will find some for you.

Galatians 5:20 from the King James Bible
Idolatry, witchcraft, hatred, variance, emulations, wrath, strife, seditions, heresies,

Let's compare.

Galatians 5:20 from the Geneva Bible
20 Idolatry, witchcraft, hatred, debate, emulations, wrath, contentions, seditions, heresies,

WAIT A SECOND

There is the word witch. You said it was only in the King James version. Where the fuck are you getting your information from? At least let me read the article you regurgitated you fucking retard. But maybe the witch in witchcraft doesn't count. Maybe it needs to be the sole word witch on its own.

Deuteronomy 18:10 from the Geneva Bible
There shall not be found among you any one that maketh his son or his daughter to pass through the fire, or that useth divination, or an observer of times, or an enchanter, or a witch,

Let's compare.

Deuteronomy 18:10 from the Geneva Bible
Let none be found among you that maketh his son or his daughter to go through the fire, or that useth witchcraft, or a regarder of times, or a marker of the flying of fowls, or a sorcerer,

It used the word witchcraft again. I will find one more instance where the word witch is used in the King James alone, because it seems to be the only time it is used alone besides Deuteronomy.

Exodus 22:18 from the King James Bible
Thou shalt not suffer a witch to live.

Comparing time.

Exodus 22:18 from the Geneva Bible
Thou shalt not suffer a witch to live.

You sir, are a fucking liar. What a joke. Please share where you discovered this shit so I can pick it apart more, because this is top grade retardation.

What you could have argued was the original text.
Exodus 22:18 from the Greek Septuagint translation of the Hebrew Bible
φαρμακοὺς οὐ περιποιήσετε.

The word φαρμακοὺς means sorcerer, magician, or one that practices medicines to similar intended magical effect. We get the word pharmacy from this word. So, in a way, the word poisoner wouldn't be the worst of translations, because witches were known to brew medicines for desired magical effect, often poisoning people that took it.

In the end, you were wrong about every point you brought up. What a waste of your time, my time, and everyone's time because you couldn't research this yourself.

>>7308
Oh man, looking at it more closely - what a great thread! I'll be going through everything in detail and asking some questions later.

For now though, there's something I hope to get help with:
An old friend of mine (we had drifted apart over the years) had "retreated into his shell" when I sent him a letter with well-sourced warnings/articles about the injection, just before they became available. To be honest, despite "meaning well" there was arrogance on my part at simply "expecting" him to process that information and make the choice I thought he'd make - my arrogance was partly fueled by my own waves of feeling intimidated on occasion and still refusing to fully confront the whole reality of such serious events beyond my control. (Standing strong in the face of accelerating end times events is quite a challenge.)
In hindsight, this may have even contributed towards his decision to get it (which he did), possibly due to him becoming even more "intimidated" by the scale of evil around him - not being able to "handle" some very confronting facts. He broke off all contact with me, and had become the most broken and inwardly-hurting man I had ever seen (although apparently this was going on for years before, possibly exacerbated by some persistent bad human elements/relations in his life that he wouldn't address). His inner pain and suffering is getting stronger and it's starting to manifest as serious physical ailments/diseases that could lead to his death soon.
TL;DR: He embraces and believes "in the Matrix", and is bound/married to it. Perhaps he even wants to die, but has a crippling fear of dying.

I don't want to repeat the same mistake when approaching him again regarding Christianity - he's a member of a church that teaches "judeo-christian" feel-good BS and it's part of his "shell" that he's built around himself.
I was going to send him a heartfelt and apologetic letter, retracting my arrogance and explaining my feelings with humbleness. Also included with the letter would be burned CDs of some selected sermons by Pastor Marrs from Bible Home Church, where he talks about finding freedom and relief from fear.

My friend has so much fear and intimidation inside of him, I don't think he's saved, but who am I to just blurt it out to him or disrupt his shell that he clings on to so much - he has his own life, and judging by outward appearances it's a good one.
We've both been through a lot and I don't want him to suffer, but despite further introspection still don't feel "qualified" to assist him - especially since I'm still "suffering/injured" in various ways myself and not the shining hero-example that a small part of him still appears to be looking for. In addition, his character-type moves towards his abusers (and still suffers/digs-up from events decades ago, and looks to peers/the-crowd for validation/judgement), my character-type moves away from abusers (and remains independent), but we both "glance behind us" at times and in most ways we're very "far apart" now.

TL;DR: Do you have experience in reaching out to someone like that, or know of some Bible passages or sermons or pastors (or maybe "heroes") that can help my suffering friend? If not, no pressure - I'll default to my own idea.

>>7310
Unfortunately, I have no experience of success in reaching others. I don't really have the charisma that is required to get people to listen and consider application. I can share what I know about the Bible though.

People that are consumed by fear are in a struggling relationship with God, if not devoid of the relationship altogether.

Herein is our love made perfect, that we may have boldness in the day of judgment: because as he is, so are we in this world.

1 John 4:18-21
There is no fear in love; but perfect love casteth out fear: because fear hath torment. He that feareth is not made perfect in love.
19We love him, because he first loved us.
20If a man say, I love God, and hateth his brother, he is a liar: for he that loveth not his brother whom he hath seen, how can he love God whom he hath not seen?
21And this commandment have we from him, That he who loveth God love his brother also.

The desire to fit in with the world in fear of losing something valuable is natural, as it strikes the hearts of the prophets as well. Elijah was gifted with miracles to present to the people that had abandoned God.

1 Kings 18:36-39
And it came to pass at the time of the offering of the evening sacrifice, that Elijah the prophet came near, and said, LORD God of Abraham, Isaac, and of Israel, let it be known this day that thou art God in Israel, and that I am thy servant, and that I have done all these things at thy word.
37Hear me, O LORD, hear me, that this people may know that thou art the LORD God, and that thou hast turned their heart back again.
38Then the fire of the LORD fell, and consumed the burnt sacrifice, and the wood, and the stones, and the dust, and licked up the water that was in the trench.
39And when all the people saw it, they fell on their faces: and they said, The LORD, he is the God; the LORD, he is the God.

Yet, after this display, the king of Israel was mad that he disproved his favorite false god of Baal, as his wife was pagan. The wife demanded the head of Elijah for crimes against the gods and so he ran.

1 Kings 19:9-15
And he came thither unto a cave, and lodged there; and, behold, the word of the LORD came to him, and he said unto him, What doest thou here, Elijah?
10And he said, I have been very jealous for the LORD God of hosts: for the children of Israel have forsaken thy covenant, thrown down thine altars, and slain thy prophets with the sword; and I, even I only, am left; and they seek my life, to take it away.
11And he said, Go forth, and stand upon the mount before the LORD. And, behold, the LORD passed by, and a great and strong wind rent the mountains, and brake in pieces the rocks before the LORD; but the LORD was not in the wind: and after the wind an earthquake; but the LORD was not in the earthquake:
12And after the earthquake a fire; but the LORD was not in the fire: and after the fire a still small voice.
13And it was so, when Elijah heard it, that he wrapped his face in his mantle, and went out, and stood in the entering in of the cave. And, behold, there came a voice unto him, and said, What doest thou here, Elijah?
14And he said, I have been very jealous for the LORD God of hosts: because the children of Israel have forsaken thy covenant, thrown down thine altars, and slain thy prophets with the sword; and I, even I only, am left; and they seek my life, to take it away.
15And the LORD said unto him, Go, return on thy way to the wilderness of Damascus: and when thou comest, anoint Hazael to be king over Syria:

This shows that Elijah fell into a depression, wishing that he could just fit in. He states to God that he is the only one left that makes any sense. Even after seeing the power of God and figuring out the meaning behind the display, he simply returned to his statement to God.

The meaning is that God is not found in the expected places, but in what appears to be weak, unlikely, and not desired. Elijah wanted the support of others, which is natural, and distressed over the lack of human support, despite having the support of God. God then answers this by having him go on another mission, during which he would meet Elisha, who would be his companion and support him in trouble, eventually taking his place as prophet.

Why do I mention this? I think this might help in a couple different ways. First, the expected answer that you will get is dismissal, as even God was dismissed by a prophet in fear and depression. Second, being the Elisha in the story, being an aid to the person in question, would be a great benefit, even when the person is resisting all aid. Third, sometimes people will never change, even in the face of irrefutable proof that fear is not the response to have in the face of opposition. Elijah was proven that God controlled the universe and no person could realistically oppose him, but he still felt powerless and alone.

Ultimately, the way to reach out is to reinforce companionship and to go over the Bible with him.

>>7310
Being part of a church already can be a dangerous thing in this era, as it can lead to one of two thoughts where the person can either believe himself already knowledgeable about the text and has already applied the lessons, or believes the Bible to be something akin to a community gathering point with a book reading. Especially in the churches that express modern values and interpretations that deviate from the obvious meaning being expressed. In either case, I would prepare for a resistance to the content of the Bible.

The matrix belief I assume is the belief that the world is a simulation? Or perhaps it is the belief that the world is an illusion and the reality lies behind what can be see? Though an element of this is the truth, as the world is not the totality of existence.

2 Corinthians 4:18
While we look not at the things which are seen, but at the things which are not seen: for the things which are seen are temporal; but the things which are not seen are eternal.

1 John 4:20
If a man say, I love God, and hateth his brother, he is a liar: for he that loveth not his brother whom he hath seen, how can he love God whom he hath not seen?

But the world is very much real, as God created man in it, bothers to fight for it, and will make another earth.

Revelation 20:4-6
And I saw thrones, and they sat upon them, and judgment was given unto them: and I saw the souls of them that were beheaded for the witness of Jesus, and for the word of God, and which had not worshipped the beast, neither his image, neither had received his mark upon their foreheads, or in their hands; and they lived and reigned with Christ a thousand years.
5But the rest of the dead lived not again until the thousand years were finished. This is the first resurrection.
6Blessed and holy is he that hath part in the first resurrection: on such the second death hath no power, but they shall be priests of God and of Christ, and shall reign with him a thousand years.

Revelation 21:1-5
And I saw a new heaven and a new earth: for the first heaven and the first earth were passed away; and there was no more sea.
2And I John saw the holy city, new Jerusalem, coming down from God out of heaven, prepared as a bride adorned for her husband.
3And I heard a great voice out of heaven saying, Behold, the tabernacle of God is with men, and he will dwell with them, and they shall be his people, and God himself shall be with them, and be their God.
4And God shall wipe away all tears from their eyes; and there shall be no more death, neither sorrow, nor crying, neither shall there be any more pain: for the former things are passed away.
5And he that sat upon the throne said, Behold, I make all things new. And he said unto me, Write: for these words are true and faithful.

>who am I to blurt it out to him
God can do this for you. The response to the Bible reveals the truth and someone that is saved will grow in the fruit of the Spirit, as he desires to grow closer to God. He won't be perfect, but he will respect the Bible.

Asking if he is ok lately and if he would like to hear the comforting words that you read in the Bible might be a good way to introduce the Bible into the equation, which will reveal where his heart is. Again, I have as of yet not had success with my methods, so perhaps they are not the greatest to restore friendship and bringing someone to Christ, but it is the best I can provide.

James 5:19-20
Brethren, if any of you do err from the truth, and one convert him;
20Let him know, that he which converteth the sinner from the error of his way shall save a soul from death, and shall hide a multitude of sins.

>>7311
>>7312
Thank you, for some reason I hadn't yet come across Elijah and Elisha, and will definitely refer to those verses in the letter to my friend.
The NIV church that he and his family visit is one that seems to operate on my friend's terms rather than God's, and it'll likely be one of his "security blankets" that I should be careful to not pull away, but rather let him slowly remove himself and on his own terms when introducing the more Biblically-accurate alternatives.
>The matrix belief I assume is the belief that the world is a simulation? Or perhaps it is the belief that the world is an illusion and the reality lies behind what can be see?
Yes, pretty much but also and more malevolently it's a simulated reality/existence/trap created by parasitic entities, and this artificial reality has limits to it that never exceed those of which the person living inside the artificial reality can handle.
(Personally, I believe that satan and his synagogue-of-satan/etc. minions are trying everything to counterfeit and replace God, using technology, psychology, pharmacology, electromagnetic radiation, media, fake religions/scripture/cults/culture, illness, addictions, alterations to the environment etc. - creating a type of world inside a world, which only they control - though I don't yet fully know how well supported this belief is Biblically.
I do know that satan is currently allowed to be god of this world, but I suppose even that will have its limits of what satan is allowed to do; a set of limits which can be removed by absorbing people into another world, a world only controlled by satan and precursor to hell when the body finally dies. For example, our true-world still has actual Christians passing through it, with the power to make real-world changes, whereas other people will need to specifically turn completely away from God's protection before being able to fully take part inside this fake-world being constructed. We can see fake-worlds inside communist regimes, but advances in and adoption of technology will make this fake-world seem perfectly normal and thus inescapable.)

My friend apparently cannot handle the newfound unknown harshness and dangers of the world that exists outside of the old and known harshness and dangers within the world/matrix that he's inside of. That's why I regret being so "arrogant" in assuming he'd simply see the deeper and even more disturbing reality behind a subject - assuming he'd move away from the dangers that he knows he can handle, rather than bringing them even closer to him, like he has. However, I don't actually know if my letter to him had that effect - for some reason, it feels like he had already made up his mind years before. The Corinthians verse sounds very suitable for his situation, because judging by his letter to me he's strongly holding on to what he can see, while at the same time trying to escape from it.

Thank you for taking time to read through my lengthy outpourings of thoughts and answering them. I've been pretty emotional lately due to recent deaths and illnesses of loved ones, and am myself feeling pretty weak and ineffective right now.

Gently quoting the real Jesus Christ (not the feel-good honey-coated censored NIV/etc.-type counterfeits) and Him being the ultimate authority, rather than satan (or satan's works), would be a positive non-confrontational approach for someone as hurting as my friend.

My thoughts on charisma: satan has boundless charisma (when it suits him), but only God has/is the truth. "One word of truth outweighs the world." Aleksandr Solzhenitsyn
I just need to speak from the heart, without traces of my own worries or intimidation like in my last letter.
Thank you, again.

>>7310
>>7313
Did you bring it to God?
Did you ask?
Did you wait and listen to what He says?

>>7314
Vital questions, and yes to all. I got the answer months ago, but have been too intimidated to go through with it and instead have spent most of my spare time and thoughts preparing, because I'm doubting my own abilities to handle such a serious situation properly after failing to save another dear friend of mine during a critical time - I was doing much better before that had happened.
That's why I was so open on here - in a way to gather the last bit of courage and get my shit together, but also add some final outside positive influence into the mix. Getting an answer and not going through with it is enough of a crime already, but now there are Earthly witnesses too. No more delays now.

what passages to study to help with online evangelism

https://youtube.com/shorts/dK81PZ6Spr4?si=Ebhztofv-ORmdmzp [Embed]
^_^

As a result of a sudden inclination, I'll take the opportunity to opine that when dealing with divine/angelic names, the "El" part is a distinct suffix. This is to say, you have to say it right.
Its not Gaybreel its Gabra-El. Its not myychael its Micha-El, and so on. Protip!

Oh fine, Ill spell out the formula,...

Its prefix, middle and suffix.
Ga-bry(or 'brai' if you can do that sound)-el
Similarly, it's Mi-ka/cha/chai- El.
This can be applied to any El name, and trust me, they will appreciate the effort.

Catholicism is a very murky and complicated beast, but there are a number of things it gets especially right especially for an abrahamic tradition, among them:
The right, privilege, and in some cases duty to know and call upon the right forms of aid at the right time. They are here, and for a reason.
https://youtu.be/VqtQCtCr2BQ?si=-cyvT8L_Fsj78WLk [Embed]
Praise be that theres a pony vid of this song. I had no intention until right at the end of typing and then was like "OMG it would be hilarious/sausage to end with hoobastank" but then was like "is there a pony version tho?"

What was the cause of Lucifer's jealousy?

>>8287
The limitless potential of mankind, and god's favor towards his ultimate creation.

>>8288
i was meaning more before that, his original fall from grace and becomming a fallen angel

>>8289
His fall from grace was his own hubris, and jealousy of Adam for the reasons stated above. He was among the wisest angels, but unlike Adam, his mind was already concluded and not capable of learning or growing wiser, so his arrogance was infinite.

There's probably a clearer scripture-based answer. I'll stop with my non-canon conjecture and let OP take it from here.

>>8287
Lucifer is a curious case. Favored in every way, excepting free will.
>>8290
I disagree. Lucifer is/was a device intended for a specific function. His story is almost a cautionary tale about things being used in their specific context and not out of. His fall is a result of being placed in circumstances well outside his original parameters/programming.

>>8292
The idea that Lucifer was given everything SHORT of free will is essential to the story. Everything he did was compulsory and given to his position and standing. He is not said to have had a choice.

>>8292
>>8294
*thinking*
So unlike humanity, Lucifer and the angels lack free will? Im trying to understand it.. like lack of agency to change their own path and he felt that he deserved to have free will even if this was against god's intentions and plan?

>>8295
I'm pretty sure that the fact that Lucifer and co lacked free will is an integral element to the story. Yes, Lucifer's first claim of "fault" was that he wasn't given free will, while man was.
Lucifer did what he was programmed to do

>>8287
>What was the cause of Lucifer's jealousy?
According to the Bible, he's the ruler of this world, but for a period of time. So it looks like he doesn't take that kindly.

>>8297
While willing to engage the argument, it seems a clear-cut case of being denied the ability to make a choice. Dead to rights, in a manner of speaking

So then.
I made a promise, and I keep my promises. And to that end,...

We begin the revival of this thread with Ecclesiastes. Why? Cuz like me he's a faggot who starts to think there's a better way maybe.

Aptly sitting just AFTER proverbs, Ecclesiastes is my favorite book, fight me irl.
>is there anything of which can be said "This is new"
well, occidentally speaking, mlp DID just win a 3rd star, but thats also why we're here so I'll stfu,....

>>8312
<Yer not supposed to commentate a fookin bible study ye git
Get fucked, we shitpost in this bitch! Where was I? Ah yes
Before God, ALL things are vain and dross. Thats the part I liked. Oh, the part about "If God does exist, then one does themselves a service by abiding his rules", but that's secondary. The first rule is that before God, all things of man and even existence are vanity.

I phrased that wrong.
"Even if God DOESN'T exist, one does themselves a favor by abiding his laws. This is because man is insufficient, and incapable of proper self-determination. Oh it LOOKS like man can self-determinate, but that's a lie. That is the vanity before god. Ergo, even in the absence of God - which we will discuss eventually - abiding by God's rules will lead one to a better experience than they would see otherwise.

>>8312
Ecclesiastes is pretty good because it is written by the Preacher, which throughout the text seems to describe the life of Solomon. When you put the text in this context, you gain an additional appreciation that someone that not only had unimaginable wealth but also had wisdom that was gifted by God and still ended up with a life of regrets.

This means that the presence of wisdom, possessions, and even blessings from God does not prevent someone from making choices that are vanity.
>>8314
This is an important message that is delivered from the author which was surrounded by everything he could want. If there was anything he desired, he could demand it and receive it. Chapter 2 especially goes over this, saying that he made great works and did not withhold himself from anything he desired. This lead him to hating his life and everything he did. But he ends by saying to remember your Creator in the days of your youth, meaning to live for God, because God shall bring every work into judgement, with every secret thing, whether it be good, or whether it be evil.

>>8316
The book does not deny the existence of God, but it is written so that even if one does deny God, perhaps by listening to this advice you can avoid living for excess because it is folly. His advice to such a person is whatsoever thy hand findest to do, do it with thy might; for there is no work, nor device, nor knowledge, nor wisdom, in the grave, whither thou goest.

The Preacher definitely sends a message that on the surface is contradictory, all is vanity but work hard at it. It is a contradiction that is only solved with the presence of the Creator that will judge what you do and how you did it. All is vanity, but your purpose is in working with that which you are given. If there is no God, there is no purpose to existence, destined to be erased with time. Either way, the advice does stand, to not seek vanity but to work well with what you have.

>>8317
>The book does not deny the existence of God
Agreed, I'm just emphasizing that the author leaves it open to the "God doesn't exist" crowd, with a cautionary of "It doesnt matter, do it you faggot"

>>3411
Hi OP, I believe this thread is anti-White. Let me explain.
Christianity calls my ancestors "savages" and our Gods "mythology", destroyed our temples and told us to be meek and worship our ancient enemy's god.

>>8320
Stop spoiling the ending.

>>8321
I can plaster this thread with proof of christianity being a jewish sect and the "savior", a rabbi. But I don't want to shit on OP's bread.
I'll drop the following and see what OP has to say.

Cited from a SS booklet observes the strange alliance between Judaism and Christianity:
Schwarz, Dieter Angriff Auf Die Nationalsozialistische Weltanschauung (1936)
https://archive.org/details/schwarz-dieter-angriff-auf-die-nationalsozialistische-weltanschauung-1936-46-s.-scan-fraktur/page/26/mode/2up

- “Christianity has to bring together all people, whether they be Negroes or whites, into one great family of God. […] This sets the tone for the unification of two international forces: Judaism and political Catholicism. Zionist Jews agree with Pope that National Socialism was a scourge: In December 1934, the Viennese Franciscan Father Zyrill Fifher gave a lecture in the ring of the Old Men’s Associations of the Zionist Association in Vienna, in which he stated that National Socialism was not just a heresy, as the Pope said, but a whip and scourge used by the peoples themselves.” (Pg. 26).

>>8322
I feel like paganism is like atheism. It only really exist as a counterpoint to Christianity. Like, why don't you just do
>I can plaster this thread with proof of christianity being a jewish sect and the "savior", a rabbi. But I don't want to shit on OP's bread.
That in this (Let's be real, your own thread): >>8162 →
Paganism is more a culture of critique than thing of it's own.

>>8323
>That in this (Let's be real, your own thread): >>8162 → →
Point taken.
Nevertheless, Yahweh is a spirit that came from a burning bush (according to the bible) and is an abrahamic god, it has nothing to do with our European roots.

>>8324
>Point taken.
Thank you. ^^

We can obviously discuss differences and such but these debates always run out into pointless history debates were each debater has their own history book to recount events from. And either it's is Christianity Jewish? Or was Hitler pagan or Christian? Type questions that is the core of them.

It's never about now. Like, I for example want to preserve white people and you do too. Why should we be in conflict again? I like Christianity for it's philosophy and moral teachings.

>>8324
>Your other thread
Yes, nothing fucking came of it, in spite of all the prevalent "fuck abrahamism" which I would normally be in support of, except apparently paganism is only cool when "(you)" are available to shitpost about it? Not a good look tbh.

>>8325
Having said that I think you're perspective(s) >>8324
>>8326 has value and I wouldn't mind hearing more about it, and probably OP and others as well Maybe, like I don't know.^^. I think we need to step away from tribalism and be united as frens in our whiteness and face this incredibly hard questions of the mystery of existence itself by an open-mind and open-heart.

Though, perhaps not in this thread since it's kinda dedicated, and perhaps not in yours either, unless you want that I guess, since it's also dedicated but a new thread about comparing the pros and cons of the different religions in question along.

Just my two cents. I don't think you're breaking any rules, as far as I know of by bringing it up here either. Just if there's a big debate here, it kinda puts the focus on this debate rather than "ITT we discuss and study the bible."

>>8327
>I think we need to step away from tribalism
Not implying you're being tribalistic right now. This is just my general disposition for this subject matter.

>>8327
>annex your thread for a better discussion
As said recently, where do you think we are? Thats exactly what we do
And yes, there's plenty to criticize paganism about. That's kind of the rub, there's no tradition that has clean hands, and it's murky to try and find one's way without direct guidance - which is an issue in it's own right - but yes, we absolutely should get to that

>>8327
I think a theology and comparative religion thread would be nice. I attempted to spur discussion in the paganism thread, but to no avail.
New thread or no, what topics would you prefer to discuss?