Hello. This is the second thread of the writefag circle, here: >>299458 →
Basically all that is said in that OP applies to this one but I'll go through the 'rules' of this thread here as well.
So, the main point of this thread is to facilitate and enable Anons' writefagging; in a similar way pride facilitates and enables aids.;^P The Anons in this thread can be seperated into two camps: Anons who wants help with their writing project(s) and Anons that feel inclined to help those aforementioned shrek-colored skinheads.
Crafting and beta-reading is what we do here, any critique of literature not made by a guy submitted for this thread should be incidental; it should be when you —as a beta-reader of fics posted ITT— make a comparision between the fic your reviewing and some other story for the sake of demonstrating your point, whatever it is.
This is NOT: A review thread for unsolicited rants about random media which does not fall into the mold for how to use a refrence in this thread described in the above paragraph. Meaning if you're not using —like, let's pick something arbitrary— Naruto for a comparision in your critique of someone's writing itt, then don't bring it up. I understand that tangents can happen and if it's like a few exchanges with a pair of posters; then it's fine. However, don't make this a pattern and also move whatever off-thread-topic discussion to a more fitting board/thread. There's after all no problem with finding someone to converse with and share perspectives on a subject you care about but just take it to an appropriate thread. Sidenote: Nigel, these rules applies to you in a stricter fashion because I would not have to detail them with this much precision if it weren't for you.
I hope that I haven't scared anybody off. This is still suppose to be a chill af thread. Funposting is very much allowed and encouraged. It really is more that some type of posting —like, things that are completely irrelevant to the thread— does not belong here. I know, rocket-science and a rule that is seldom seen and highly unique for this thread. Perhaps you could call it a... Novelty. (You) intelligent lurker, obviously get the subtext of this OP so you probably won't need to worry about any of this. I'd say if you're unsure if what you're about to post belongs in the thread, then post it anyway. The worst that can happen is that someone tells you to move it to another thread and you get a better insight of what post belongs in thread. If you consist on fish and chips, however, I'd sugguest you think twice on what you're posting and perhaps even ask beforehand if your rant about lefties and Undertale belongs here.
If there are any questions on the OP, ask away?
/mlpol/ - My Little Politics
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655 replies and 171 files omitted.
>>351931
Forgot to post it here, but Chapter 2 is available if anyone wants to read:
https://hackmd.io/@glimglam12/HyWD7YKbi
Forgot to post it here, but Chapter 2 is available if anyone wants to read:
https://hackmd.io/@glimglam12/HyWD7YKbi
Proofreader said my drug storyline was too dark and the protags should never do drugs willingly if they're going to lead an army against degeneracy.
Beastars definitely mishandles the idea of drugs. We don't give a shit about Riz the Grizzly Bear until he's revealed to be the killer that started this shizophrenic clusterfuck of a plot, and we don't give a shit about the muscle weakening headache inducing drugs he is supposed to take or how honey helps with the symptoms because we don't learn he's supposed to take these pills until after we learn he chose to stop taking them once he formed a relationship with a guy, accidentally injured him by not being on the pills, and ate for rejecting him after the injury. Maybe if all carnivores were forced to take pills like that including carnivores the audience gives a shit about? Or recommended to take these pills to help them fit into herbivore society, and forced to take them or worse ones that destroy their minds and bodies if they ever break the law? The pills could be a metaphor for how society and its lies hold you back. Its military could be allowed to eat meat and reject the pills as a metaphor for how society relies on strong men despite hating them. Its hypocritical police force could be above the pill and meat laws too, perhaps.
Perhaps if the spectre of chemical castration with extra steps always loomed over the heads of all carnivores even the heroes it would have been too dark. But then what's the point in bringing up drugs if you're not going to dark places with them? Fallout made drugs videogame powerups with a cost: Addictions aka stat penalties that go away over time or can be removed if you take the time to take a trip to any doctor and get your addictions cured. The punishment is time loss in games with a time limit. F3 removed the time limit because BugthEAsderp is faggoted and FNV was better without a time limit but despite Fallout Equestria's attempt to make a fucking arc out of Party Time Mint-Als addiction the author wasn't smart enough to do it right himself or well-read enough to rip off someone who did it right.
Zootopia's initial drafts were too dark for Disney. That's how the story goes, but their initial drafts were shit. A society where all carnivores are forced to wear shock collars that taze them for feeling any emotion too strongly, and one foxman makes a theme park where carnivores can take their collars off and ride rollercoasters and enjoy animal themed activities and carnival games? This is too dark AND too divorced from human reality to say anything about human society. Also Judy Hopps seemed like too much of a cunt for thinking the shock collars were necessary and a good idea.
One proofreader said to me "Builders aren't forced to use steroids to keep their jobs over here so you shouldn't exaggerate that in the fantasy world". Is that good advice? Isn't exaggerating everything part of the point of fantasy? The consequences for good and bad deeds become huge, the righteous hero magically objectively proven to be 100% morally pure was chosen by Gods and destiny to do the good deeds ONLY he has what it takes to do, the old bastard landlord in a mansion on the hill becomes a mad tyrannical king or giant evil dragon, and the consequences of the villains winning are easily understood catastrophes like a giant space laser destroying worlds, or a dark wizard draining everybody's life force, or a satanic vampiric buff darkness dragon with a smaller dragon for a dick summoning a horde of undead to kill all life while going mwahahaha.
Beastars definitely mishandles the idea of drugs. We don't give a shit about Riz the Grizzly Bear until he's revealed to be the killer that started this shizophrenic clusterfuck of a plot, and we don't give a shit about the muscle weakening headache inducing drugs he is supposed to take or how honey helps with the symptoms because we don't learn he's supposed to take these pills until after we learn he chose to stop taking them once he formed a relationship with a guy, accidentally injured him by not being on the pills, and ate for rejecting him after the injury. Maybe if all carnivores were forced to take pills like that including carnivores the audience gives a shit about? Or recommended to take these pills to help them fit into herbivore society, and forced to take them or worse ones that destroy their minds and bodies if they ever break the law? The pills could be a metaphor for how society and its lies hold you back. Its military could be allowed to eat meat and reject the pills as a metaphor for how society relies on strong men despite hating them. Its hypocritical police force could be above the pill and meat laws too, perhaps.
Perhaps if the spectre of chemical castration with extra steps always loomed over the heads of all carnivores even the heroes it would have been too dark. But then what's the point in bringing up drugs if you're not going to dark places with them? Fallout made drugs videogame powerups with a cost: Addictions aka stat penalties that go away over time or can be removed if you take the time to take a trip to any doctor and get your addictions cured. The punishment is time loss in games with a time limit. F3 removed the time limit because BugthEAsderp is faggoted and FNV was better without a time limit but despite Fallout Equestria's attempt to make a fucking arc out of Party Time Mint-Als addiction the author wasn't smart enough to do it right himself or well-read enough to rip off someone who did it right.
Zootopia's initial drafts were too dark for Disney. That's how the story goes, but their initial drafts were shit. A society where all carnivores are forced to wear shock collars that taze them for feeling any emotion too strongly, and one foxman makes a theme park where carnivores can take their collars off and ride rollercoasters and enjoy animal themed activities and carnival games? This is too dark AND too divorced from human reality to say anything about human society. Also Judy Hopps seemed like too much of a cunt for thinking the shock collars were necessary and a good idea.
One proofreader said to me "Builders aren't forced to use steroids to keep their jobs over here so you shouldn't exaggerate that in the fantasy world". Is that good advice? Isn't exaggerating everything part of the point of fantasy? The consequences for good and bad deeds become huge, the righteous hero magically objectively proven to be 100% morally pure was chosen by Gods and destiny to do the good deeds ONLY he has what it takes to do, the old bastard landlord in a mansion on the hill becomes a mad tyrannical king or giant evil dragon, and the consequences of the villains winning are easily understood catastrophes like a giant space laser destroying worlds, or a dark wizard draining everybody's life force, or a satanic vampiric buff darkness dragon with a smaller dragon for a dick summoning a horde of undead to kill all life while going mwahahaha.
>>352749
https://hackmd.io/eMPfVQ35TVO-4n8dlBefnA
So I like this site you were using and began writing on it myself. Here's what I got so far.
https://hackmd.io/eMPfVQ35TVO-4n8dlBefnA
So I like this site you were using and began writing on it myself. Here's what I got so far.
>be starving farmer whose produce and profit is mainly stolen by the govt, sometimes have to hunt in the woods without a license to make ends meet
>and be builder forced to make condos and hotels for the elites to fill with rapefugees
>and miner thinking about how what he mines will be misused by the elites, forced to wear a shitty paper mask that does nothing to protect him from the fumes and miner's lung
>and horny gimmicky cafe worker servicing rich cunts, forced to put his dignity aside because you can't eat principles
This is too many jobs, right? He could be forced to do a different one each day because of zero hour contracts but this might be too much to show during a single "regular day" I want to write at the start of the story before the shit hits the fan. It establishes how awful life is before the main plot starts.
>and be builder forced to make condos and hotels for the elites to fill with rapefugees
>and miner thinking about how what he mines will be misused by the elites, forced to wear a shitty paper mask that does nothing to protect him from the fumes and miner's lung
>and horny gimmicky cafe worker servicing rich cunts, forced to put his dignity aside because you can't eat principles
This is too many jobs, right? He could be forced to do a different one each day because of zero hour contracts but this might be too much to show during a single "regular day" I want to write at the start of the story before the shit hits the fan. It establishes how awful life is before the main plot starts.
Sueishness is only bad when the specialness of a character gets in the way of telling a story.
There is no such thing as too special, too powerful, too beloved. Only "special and powerful and beloved enough already to get in the way of a story where she becomes special and powerful and loved". The world's ultimate fighter can still star in interesting tales but people will only ask "will he win?" If he fights cheaters or the galaxy's ultimate fighters or the afterlife's even more ultimate fighters or the multiverse's ultimatest fighters. Ma-Rey Sue could have been twice as OP at everything by the end of it and they could have made getting there satisfying if she started off shit at most things or put her in a story where her cheat abilities dont let her cheat, like putting the ultimate soldier in a romcom where violence is never the answer and he doesn't know how to be normal.
You could give a character every sue trait possible and tell a great story with her, or tell a shit story with the most boringly average character imaginable. Terms like antisue and negasue exist with unclear definitions because some people think writing good fiction begins and ends with making the characters inoffensive, so when unsueish characters turn out shit they have to invent words to describe what they cannot explain with existing words. Somebody's subjective opinions of what "too much" looks like isn't the most important thing in the world. Writers shouldn't strive to write inoffensive stories about likeable characters, they should strive to write offensive stories about compelling dimensional fascinating characters. I need to get off my ass and read more manly books for men. Got any recommendations?
There is no such thing as too special, too powerful, too beloved. Only "special and powerful and beloved enough already to get in the way of a story where she becomes special and powerful and loved". The world's ultimate fighter can still star in interesting tales but people will only ask "will he win?" If he fights cheaters or the galaxy's ultimate fighters or the afterlife's even more ultimate fighters or the multiverse's ultimatest fighters. Ma-Rey Sue could have been twice as OP at everything by the end of it and they could have made getting there satisfying if she started off shit at most things or put her in a story where her cheat abilities dont let her cheat, like putting the ultimate soldier in a romcom where violence is never the answer and he doesn't know how to be normal.
You could give a character every sue trait possible and tell a great story with her, or tell a shit story with the most boringly average character imaginable. Terms like antisue and negasue exist with unclear definitions because some people think writing good fiction begins and ends with making the characters inoffensive, so when unsueish characters turn out shit they have to invent words to describe what they cannot explain with existing words. Somebody's subjective opinions of what "too much" looks like isn't the most important thing in the world. Writers shouldn't strive to write inoffensive stories about likeable characters, they should strive to write offensive stories about compelling dimensional fascinating characters. I need to get off my ass and read more manly books for men. Got any recommendations?
>write draft where perfect based parents piss the proofreaders off by preaching truth their son already agrees with
>write draft where parents are nice normies who eat their goyslop and are unsupportive of their childs dreams
>proofreaders get more pissed and call them worse parents than Buck Cluck and Hiccups dad at their worst because suddenly the little easily missed ways in which trough-munching piglike normies are FUCKING CUNTS matter
They weren't this pissed when the hero's parents were alcoholic smokers tossing beer bottles at their kids. That was objectively awful parenting but most people were never affected by people that extremely bad IRL. But these parents are realistically not good enough. I think I've struck gold. The hero's parents might work hard for a living but they're still frustratingly wrong about important shit and unwilling to see reason in a realistic way and not just unsupportive of their kids dreams but unsupportive of the existence of budding talents they lack. That part was inspired by my parents hating me for my intelligence only toned down, I expected proofreaders to say "you made them too awful again, tone it down" but it seems the perfect balance has been found. Can't wait to finish and upload it for another round of proofreading.
>write draft where parents are nice normies who eat their goyslop and are unsupportive of their childs dreams
>proofreaders get more pissed and call them worse parents than Buck Cluck and Hiccups dad at their worst because suddenly the little easily missed ways in which trough-munching piglike normies are FUCKING CUNTS matter
They weren't this pissed when the hero's parents were alcoholic smokers tossing beer bottles at their kids. That was objectively awful parenting but most people were never affected by people that extremely bad IRL. But these parents are realistically not good enough. I think I've struck gold. The hero's parents might work hard for a living but they're still frustratingly wrong about important shit and unwilling to see reason in a realistic way and not just unsupportive of their kids dreams but unsupportive of the existence of budding talents they lack. That part was inspired by my parents hating me for my intelligence only toned down, I expected proofreaders to say "you made them too awful again, tone it down" but it seems the perfect balance has been found. Can't wait to finish and upload it for another round of proofreading.
>want to put a femboy slut crossdresser maid character in so other characters can call him an unconvincing cosplaying perverted faggot who will never be a woman
>and after the timeskip when everyone else looks older and cooler after years of training and awesome new outfits he looks like a joke because men age differently from women and he will never be a woman
>in the ending where he marries nobody he hangs himself and in all endings where he marries someone he gets himself healed and lives authentically as a normal man, never speaking about his crossdresser phase again
>also find the entire fucking concept so disgusting I don't want to put it in or even mention it
>even though weimar degeneracy is a thing the evil empire does and this man consumed by it but able to recover from it, this man who comes from a town consumed by it, is the best way to show it instead of just telling it to the audience through characters talking at each other about parts of the world I dont want to show onscreen
What do?
>and after the timeskip when everyone else looks older and cooler after years of training and awesome new outfits he looks like a joke because men age differently from women and he will never be a woman
>in the ending where he marries nobody he hangs himself and in all endings where he marries someone he gets himself healed and lives authentically as a normal man, never speaking about his crossdresser phase again
>also find the entire fucking concept so disgusting I don't want to put it in or even mention it
>even though weimar degeneracy is a thing the evil empire does and this man consumed by it but able to recover from it, this man who comes from a town consumed by it, is the best way to show it instead of just telling it to the audience through characters talking at each other about parts of the world I dont want to show onscreen
What do?
>>353073
Probably.
But how can the story say "degeneracy bad" if it does not show degeneracy being bad? The hero can't shut down weimar style brothels full of pregnant women if there are no brothels. I want to put as little degeneracy in this as possible. What is the optimal amount?
Probably.
But how can the story say "degeneracy bad" if it does not show degeneracy being bad? The hero can't shut down weimar style brothels full of pregnant women if there are no brothels. I want to put as little degeneracy in this as possible. What is the optimal amount?
>>353117
Edgerunners is aweaome! I want to do something with cyberpunk some day.
What I'm writing takes place in a medieval standard low fantasy world, but industrialization is starting through a type of technology that harnesses magic.
Magic is extremely limited so ir doesn't take over my story and make Gods of anyone, it's just elements crystals that do elemental stuff. Can't "burn away" a person's worries with fire magic or use earth magic to make a man physically or morally stronger, the wizard can't portal people across the continent or send texts or conjure food. It's as hard and scientific as possible, the elemental crystals are basically naturally occuring gemstone batteries for types of power besides electricity. Special rare people canbuse these crystals without hurting themselves, anyone else gets corrupted or blown up unless the crystals were properly inserted into tools anyone can use. The evil regime shoves magic stones into its conscripts to make ugly uniform drugged insane elemental monsters of them, denying them their individuality as they serve villainy, this contrasts with the cool heroes who use tools to enhance what makes them unique and strong.
>>353153
Your writing is good and I can't think of anything smart or helpful to say about it.
>>everyone
Moral protagonists tend to piss people off. How do you get it right?
There are people who couldn't stand Katara or Aang's preaching about their ideals in Avatar. The wise monks who are never wrong say this, Katara the group mom who is only sometimes wrong says that...
And I don't have to tell you people hated Naruto's preaching, believe it. Not to mention Green Naruto 2 (Deku from Hero Academia)
Did people have strong opinions on Luke Skywalker back when he was new? He's probably the most famous example of the typical hero guy and he didn't strike me as preachy.
Protagonists of these adventure stories tend to be fairly stock, standard, sheltered, vanilla, underdogs except not really, usually the straight men compared to way wackier characters, chosen by destiny to not be underdogs, the bridge between the audience and the wider weirder world he learns about and grows in, related to the villain or to people the villains killed.
But when it comes to even the preachiest heroes they were nowhere near as awful as the fanatic insane Littlepip who saw the world in black and white and was ready to open fire at a moment's notice.
Sure, the whole world was like that (like that time 200 year old ghoul Steelhooves killed a security guy for defending his tower from a ghoul horde. Ghoul isn't a race with a culture and creed, it's a symptom of irradiation and insane luck, a skin condition that slows your ageing. This man married Applejack, he has no reason to feel ethnic bonds with wasteland ghouls most likely a tenth of his age or less) but LP was the worst offender except when Calamity or Velvet was.
The protagonist of my story is on a mission to free his homeland from an evil regime of rich Goblins that hate his race and are doing Weimar shit to everyone even the kids. He has to fight members of his race brainwashed into serving the regime and Orcs the Goblins imported to be their thuggish obedient simple minded bodyguards and enforcers and pet barbarian attack dogs.
It would be very easy to accidentally fuck this up.
Forget the gayness, forget the tragic backstories, forget country vs country lore shit that has no influence on the present day. If there is one thing I need to get right, it's violent savior Farmboy McHeroman and his closest friends. And I have no idea where to begin.
Edgerunners is aweaome! I want to do something with cyberpunk some day.
What I'm writing takes place in a medieval standard low fantasy world, but industrialization is starting through a type of technology that harnesses magic.
Magic is extremely limited so ir doesn't take over my story and make Gods of anyone, it's just elements crystals that do elemental stuff. Can't "burn away" a person's worries with fire magic or use earth magic to make a man physically or morally stronger, the wizard can't portal people across the continent or send texts or conjure food. It's as hard and scientific as possible, the elemental crystals are basically naturally occuring gemstone batteries for types of power besides electricity. Special rare people canbuse these crystals without hurting themselves, anyone else gets corrupted or blown up unless the crystals were properly inserted into tools anyone can use. The evil regime shoves magic stones into its conscripts to make ugly uniform drugged insane elemental monsters of them, denying them their individuality as they serve villainy, this contrasts with the cool heroes who use tools to enhance what makes them unique and strong.
>>353153
Your writing is good and I can't think of anything smart or helpful to say about it.
>>everyone
Moral protagonists tend to piss people off. How do you get it right?
There are people who couldn't stand Katara or Aang's preaching about their ideals in Avatar. The wise monks who are never wrong say this, Katara the group mom who is only sometimes wrong says that...
And I don't have to tell you people hated Naruto's preaching, believe it. Not to mention Green Naruto 2 (Deku from Hero Academia)
Did people have strong opinions on Luke Skywalker back when he was new? He's probably the most famous example of the typical hero guy and he didn't strike me as preachy.
Protagonists of these adventure stories tend to be fairly stock, standard, sheltered, vanilla, underdogs except not really, usually the straight men compared to way wackier characters, chosen by destiny to not be underdogs, the bridge between the audience and the wider weirder world he learns about and grows in, related to the villain or to people the villains killed.
But when it comes to even the preachiest heroes they were nowhere near as awful as the fanatic insane Littlepip who saw the world in black and white and was ready to open fire at a moment's notice.
Sure, the whole world was like that (like that time 200 year old ghoul Steelhooves killed a security guy for defending his tower from a ghoul horde. Ghoul isn't a race with a culture and creed, it's a symptom of irradiation and insane luck, a skin condition that slows your ageing. This man married Applejack, he has no reason to feel ethnic bonds with wasteland ghouls most likely a tenth of his age or less) but LP was the worst offender except when Calamity or Velvet was.
The protagonist of my story is on a mission to free his homeland from an evil regime of rich Goblins that hate his race and are doing Weimar shit to everyone even the kids. He has to fight members of his race brainwashed into serving the regime and Orcs the Goblins imported to be their thuggish obedient simple minded bodyguards and enforcers and pet barbarian attack dogs.
It would be very easy to accidentally fuck this up.
Forget the gayness, forget the tragic backstories, forget country vs country lore shit that has no influence on the present day. If there is one thing I need to get right, it's violent savior Farmboy McHeroman and his closest friends. And I have no idea where to begin.
>>353156
>I want to do something with cyberpunk some day.
I know a guy who's trying to set up a Shadowrun game, only instead of the Goblinization it's ponification.
>I want to do something with cyberpunk some day.
I know a guy who's trying to set up a Shadowrun game, only instead of the Goblinization it's ponification.
>>353156
>Your writing is good and I can't think of anything smart or helpful to say about it.
Thanks. That's okay. Could you tell me what you found good about it?
>Your writing is good and I can't think of anything smart or helpful to say about it.
Thanks. That's okay. Could you tell me what you found good about it?
>>353162
No, good catch. It's just a placeholder name until I can come up with a better one.
I usually mesh two words together to form a name. Skinny+Thick=Skitick. Imo, leopards and big cats are kinda skinny on certain areas of their bodies but their fur, tail, and limbs are thick.
No, good catch. It's just a placeholder name until I can come up with a better one.
I usually mesh two words together to form a name. Skinny+Thick=Skitick. Imo, leopards and big cats are kinda skinny on certain areas of their bodies but their fur, tail, and limbs are thick.
>>353174
Oh, cool. My placeholder names are boring and utilitarian. HeroGuy, Princess Name, BookGirl, Horse, Boss1, Boss2, and so on.
I must be certain not to give the hero any hypocritical moments. That retarded moment when LP considered it shockingly wrong for Steelhooves to kill someone who (i think?) tried to kill his wife Applejack but was fine with him killing security chief ghoul-hater and telling the radio girl "tell the tower chief security man died a hero" and was fine with all of her own killings was really homosexual. She'd even shoot fleeing enemies in the back and she'd never try things the nice way first, it was always kill or steal or manipulate. Her transition from nobody to violent fanatic "willing to be seen as the villain of the piece" wasn't believable and she had no reason to give herself the quest to violently end slavery. She wasn't an escaped slave trying to free a friend taken upstairs as a pleasure slave by the CEO of slavery the hero would have to kill, she didn't incite a slave rebellion and kill the boss and lead an exodus to an ex-slave rehabilitation camp she would then have to save from waves of enemy assault. She was just a bored god in a mindless toybox with less depth than Kkat's fake troonhole.
My protagonist should be slower to start killing... Right? On one hand the villains he fights are worse people than anyone LP ever fought. And he is often put into kill or be killed situations. The hero's a smart guy but you can't talk an Orc into raising his IQ or a Goblin into being kind. Even if rehabilitating them was possible it won't unrape their victims. What would happen if you "rehabilitated" them and released them into society only for survivors of their attacks to see them? "Hey, that's the Orc who raped and ate my wife!" Says a good man, killing the Orc. What then? Does he go to jail and have gang rapist Orcs for cellmates? There is no political solution. Exporting them lets them take their bullshit home to the shithole continents they are from and come back if your descendants ever forget what they did, putting them in work camps lets them begin paying reparations to the races they have harmed even though what they owe can never be repaid, and killing them all with a Wish spell performed with the Holy Grail solves the Orc and Goblin problems.
Oh, cool. My placeholder names are boring and utilitarian. HeroGuy, Princess Name, BookGirl, Horse, Boss1, Boss2, and so on.
I must be certain not to give the hero any hypocritical moments. That retarded moment when LP considered it shockingly wrong for Steelhooves to kill someone who (i think?) tried to kill his wife Applejack but was fine with him killing security chief ghoul-hater and telling the radio girl "tell the tower chief security man died a hero" and was fine with all of her own killings was really homosexual. She'd even shoot fleeing enemies in the back and she'd never try things the nice way first, it was always kill or steal or manipulate. Her transition from nobody to violent fanatic "willing to be seen as the villain of the piece" wasn't believable and she had no reason to give herself the quest to violently end slavery. She wasn't an escaped slave trying to free a friend taken upstairs as a pleasure slave by the CEO of slavery the hero would have to kill, she didn't incite a slave rebellion and kill the boss and lead an exodus to an ex-slave rehabilitation camp she would then have to save from waves of enemy assault. She was just a bored god in a mindless toybox with less depth than Kkat's fake troonhole.
My protagonist should be slower to start killing... Right? On one hand the villains he fights are worse people than anyone LP ever fought. And he is often put into kill or be killed situations. The hero's a smart guy but you can't talk an Orc into raising his IQ or a Goblin into being kind. Even if rehabilitating them was possible it won't unrape their victims. What would happen if you "rehabilitated" them and released them into society only for survivors of their attacks to see them? "Hey, that's the Orc who raped and ate my wife!" Says a good man, killing the Orc. What then? Does he go to jail and have gang rapist Orcs for cellmates? There is no political solution. Exporting them lets them take their bullshit home to the shithole continents they are from and come back if your descendants ever forget what they did, putting them in work camps lets them begin paying reparations to the races they have harmed even though what they owe can never be repaid, and killing them all with a Wish spell performed with the Holy Grail solves the Orc and Goblin problems.
>>353029
>Hey, GG. Would you check out my story so far and give me your opinion?
Sure, I'll take a look when I get a chance.
>Hey, GG. Would you check out my story so far and give me your opinion?
Sure, I'll take a look when I get a chance.
>>352749
This chapter had much more descriptive prose than the one before it. I like the way you paced it. You didn't try to force everything down in one go. I have a tendency to try to get everything I want to include in one sentence. You gave everything just the right amount of focus, imo.
You described the differences between the technology in Equestria and our world. Your explanations were reasonable.
This chapter had much more descriptive prose than the one before it. I like the way you paced it. You didn't try to force everything down in one go. I have a tendency to try to get everything I want to include in one sentence. You gave everything just the right amount of focus, imo.
You described the differences between the technology in Equestria and our world. Your explanations were reasonable.
>>353269
I also like the world building part when you described Canterlot's layout.
On a sidenote, I remember posting that image in your thread once. Maybe that's where you saw it first.
I also like the world building part when you described Canterlot's layout.
On a sidenote, I remember posting that image in your thread once. Maybe that's where you saw it first.
>while hero is working his mom reads his diary and reacts to it so I can infodump a shitton of hero's past on the audience seamlessly
Is this genius or retarded?
Is this genius or retarded?
>>353285
Personally, I've never enjoyed reading or writing info dumps and prefer to include character development as the story continues, even for main character(s). The concept of the diary is a solid, but don't overdo it with a mountain of exposition and description.
The line is more or less up to you, but a more experienced writer here would probably have better advice for you than me.
Personally, I've never enjoyed reading or writing info dumps and prefer to include character development as the story continues, even for main character(s). The concept of the diary is a solid, but don't overdo it with a mountain of exposition and description.
The line is more or less up to you, but a more experienced writer here would probably have better advice for you than me.
>>353297
I only get one chance to show a normal day or two in the protag's life before shit hits the fan and he can't go back to his normal life. So I want to include everything now but that's probably a bad idea. Perhaps I should only cover stuff that would feel unnatural to be brought up later in casual conversation or arguments, and stuff that needs to be understood now before scenes make sense when they happen.
I only get one chance to show a normal day or two in the protag's life before shit hits the fan and he can't go back to his normal life. So I want to include everything now but that's probably a bad idea. Perhaps I should only cover stuff that would feel unnatural to be brought up later in casual conversation or arguments, and stuff that needs to be understood now before scenes make sense when they happen.
Avatar: The Last Airbender was an optimistic whitepilled show where every race had something good to say about it, even the villains. The Fire Nation was power, ambition, ferocity, and in the most important fire nation characters this was explored. Zuko had to find what was good in himself, and what was good in fire. The villains were too ambitious, too greedy, manipulative, corrupt, vicious, aggressive, cruel, destructive. The virtues in other nations could be corrupted, too. Earth Kingdom people were strong and enduring, but they could be arrogant and foolish and stubborn like the Earth King, and that guy who wanted Aang to trigger the Avatar State now and charge before he was ready. The Air Nomads were carefree monks detatched from worldly concerns, look how well that worked out for them. Even the Water Tribe, adaptable and loving, wasn't immune to corruption. That old bloodbender woman was motivated for vengeange by love of those lost, she was a dark reflection of Katara.
This simple kiddie story in a three season cartoon says more about virtues and people than Failout Equestria thinks it does in six gorillion words of overly edgy pony violence. The story says the only valuable form of loyalty, honesty, kindness, and so on are to show these things to Littlepip and her allies alone. A mercenary is called corrupted loyalty until she embraces absolute servitude to Littlepip. A propagandist liar living in luxury is called honesty for praising Littlepip while a cheese seller who kills himself so Littlepip will feel guilty and have to find his family a new home is called corrupted honesty.
My story's too black and white right now, a proof reader said to me. Too much "My race and my ways good, their race and their ways bad". Obviously the enemy is evil, there's nothing redeemable about rapist orcs or goblin swindlers, that's as factual as the existence of space. But I should add some other groups or other races, good ones the hero gets on his side to help him slay his enemies because the villains screwed them all over in different ways and they'll all be better off without Orcs and Goblins.
One proofreader suggested I say the bland customizable reader self insert player character is literally the player of the game sent by God to save this world and its people, calling saving and reloading a time power you were granted as the chosen one to ensure the rightful hero protagonist saves the world from the god of darkness and makes it how the god of goodness says it should be. That seems too simplistic, would audiences respond well to that?
This simple kiddie story in a three season cartoon says more about virtues and people than Failout Equestria thinks it does in six gorillion words of overly edgy pony violence. The story says the only valuable form of loyalty, honesty, kindness, and so on are to show these things to Littlepip and her allies alone. A mercenary is called corrupted loyalty until she embraces absolute servitude to Littlepip. A propagandist liar living in luxury is called honesty for praising Littlepip while a cheese seller who kills himself so Littlepip will feel guilty and have to find his family a new home is called corrupted honesty.
My story's too black and white right now, a proof reader said to me. Too much "My race and my ways good, their race and their ways bad". Obviously the enemy is evil, there's nothing redeemable about rapist orcs or goblin swindlers, that's as factual as the existence of space. But I should add some other groups or other races, good ones the hero gets on his side to help him slay his enemies because the villains screwed them all over in different ways and they'll all be better off without Orcs and Goblins.
One proofreader suggested I say the bland customizable reader self insert player character is literally the player of the game sent by God to save this world and its people, calling saving and reloading a time power you were granted as the chosen one to ensure the rightful hero protagonist saves the world from the god of darkness and makes it how the god of goodness says it should be. That seems too simplistic, would audiences respond well to that?
File (): 9B220C4D9EBB2AF9524689BD4CE2D330-342729.png (334.7 KB, 1000x563, Spoilered)
>>353269
Thanks. One of the things I've become much more conscious of since I started doing reviews is how much general information I ought to give the reader, and when it's appropriate to spoonfeed it to them. On the one hand you don't want to infodump, but on the other hand sometimes you just need to convey information in order to explain your setting. It's particularly tricky with a story like this, where a very blatantly non-MLP-style character is being juxtaposed into Equestria. If I take Marlowe too far out of his original element he won't be able to be Marlowe anymore, but at the same time I can't just have a 1940s hard-boiled detective inexplicably wandering around pastel ponyland drinking and swearing and smoking cigarettes, no matter how hilarious the idea might be. The scenario has to be at least somewhat plausible, so if I want him to be able to drink and smoke and so forth there needs to be some kind of in-world explanation for how he is able to procure things like whiskey and cigarettes; if he's going to be dealing with crime and the seamy underbelly of things, it needs to be a seamy underbelly that works for an MLP-style setting. Basically, I want Philip Marlowe in Equestria to be able to behave more or less the way he would in an ordinary Philip Marlowe story, but still have everything make sense within the context of the MLP setting.
The business with phones was actually something I wound up putting quite a bit of thought into (possibly far more than was necessary). Since the main character is going to be doing a lot of communicating back and forth, making reports and getting hold of suspects and so on, the question of what sort of communication methods he has to work with is a very important detail that needs to be settled early. If he has a phone, or something like a phone, at his disposal it makes things much easier on me, but at the same time it's debatable whether phones could or should exist in Equestria.
Fortunately, this fandom is full of turbo-autists who obsessively research and endlessly debate this sort of thing, so I was able to dig up the two images I attached. The basic nerd-debate over phones in Equestria is that on the one hand, images like these prove that phones canonically exist in the world; however, there is also a conspicuous lack of wires and poles, so there is some question as to how they work. The explanation I came up with is basically this: phones are embedded-magic devices that can directly communicate with one another and don't require the user to have any magical ability. However, the connection between two devices has to be made manually by a unicorn (or other spell-casting creature), since determining which two phones specifically are to be connected would require an act of conscious will. So, Equestria's phone company employs unicorn operators. When you pick up a phone, the embedded spell connects automatically to the nearest operator, you tell the operator who you want to call, and she casts a spell to connect your phone to the other pony's. In other words, the phone system in Equestria is comparable to the way phones used to work before automated switching was a thing, so it's more or less comparable to what Marlowe would be accustomed to already. Thus, Marlowe can be transposed into a version of Equestria that is similar enough to the world he knows that he can live there without having to radically reimagine his life; basically like moving to another country as opposed to moving to an alien planet (even though technically it is an alien planet). At the same time, I have an explanation for the similarities that doesn't require deviating significantly from the MLP canon.
Obviously, I don't want to just dump all of this information onto the reader; it's enough to simply inform them that phones exist in Equestria and provide a simple explanation of how they work (tl;dr it's magic and I ain't gotta explain shit). Technical details can be revealed if and when they become relevant, and I've got a complete explanation I can roll out in the event that anyone asks. I'm actually rather proud of this autism I came up with. Imo this is the proper way to handle cross-universe world-building, as opposed to something like: "the PipBuck exists in my setting because the PipBoy exists in the thing I'm ripping off; here is ten fucking paragraphs of technical specs."
>>353270
>I remember posting that image in your thread once. Maybe that's where you saw it first.
I think you probably did, I know that I found that image here somewhere and I think it was posted in one of my threads. In any event it's a great image; as I said I've been wanting to set a story in that version of Canterlot ever since I first saw it.
Thanks. One of the things I've become much more conscious of since I started doing reviews is how much general information I ought to give the reader, and when it's appropriate to spoonfeed it to them. On the one hand you don't want to infodump, but on the other hand sometimes you just need to convey information in order to explain your setting. It's particularly tricky with a story like this, where a very blatantly non-MLP-style character is being juxtaposed into Equestria. If I take Marlowe too far out of his original element he won't be able to be Marlowe anymore, but at the same time I can't just have a 1940s hard-boiled detective inexplicably wandering around pastel ponyland drinking and swearing and smoking cigarettes, no matter how hilarious the idea might be. The scenario has to be at least somewhat plausible, so if I want him to be able to drink and smoke and so forth there needs to be some kind of in-world explanation for how he is able to procure things like whiskey and cigarettes; if he's going to be dealing with crime and the seamy underbelly of things, it needs to be a seamy underbelly that works for an MLP-style setting. Basically, I want Philip Marlowe in Equestria to be able to behave more or less the way he would in an ordinary Philip Marlowe story, but still have everything make sense within the context of the MLP setting.
The business with phones was actually something I wound up putting quite a bit of thought into (possibly far more than was necessary). Since the main character is going to be doing a lot of communicating back and forth, making reports and getting hold of suspects and so on, the question of what sort of communication methods he has to work with is a very important detail that needs to be settled early. If he has a phone, or something like a phone, at his disposal it makes things much easier on me, but at the same time it's debatable whether phones could or should exist in Equestria.
Fortunately, this fandom is full of turbo-autists who obsessively research and endlessly debate this sort of thing, so I was able to dig up the two images I attached. The basic nerd-debate over phones in Equestria is that on the one hand, images like these prove that phones canonically exist in the world; however, there is also a conspicuous lack of wires and poles, so there is some question as to how they work. The explanation I came up with is basically this: phones are embedded-magic devices that can directly communicate with one another and don't require the user to have any magical ability. However, the connection between two devices has to be made manually by a unicorn (or other spell-casting creature), since determining which two phones specifically are to be connected would require an act of conscious will. So, Equestria's phone company employs unicorn operators. When you pick up a phone, the embedded spell connects automatically to the nearest operator, you tell the operator who you want to call, and she casts a spell to connect your phone to the other pony's. In other words, the phone system in Equestria is comparable to the way phones used to work before automated switching was a thing, so it's more or less comparable to what Marlowe would be accustomed to already. Thus, Marlowe can be transposed into a version of Equestria that is similar enough to the world he knows that he can live there without having to radically reimagine his life; basically like moving to another country as opposed to moving to an alien planet (even though technically it is an alien planet). At the same time, I have an explanation for the similarities that doesn't require deviating significantly from the MLP canon.
Obviously, I don't want to just dump all of this information onto the reader; it's enough to simply inform them that phones exist in Equestria and provide a simple explanation of how they work (tl;dr it's magic and I ain't gotta explain shit). Technical details can be revealed if and when they become relevant, and I've got a complete explanation I can roll out in the event that anyone asks. I'm actually rather proud of this autism I came up with. Imo this is the proper way to handle cross-universe world-building, as opposed to something like: "the PipBuck exists in my setting because the PipBoy exists in the thing I'm ripping off; here is ten fucking paragraphs of technical specs."
>>353270
>I remember posting that image in your thread once. Maybe that's where you saw it first.
I think you probably did, I know that I found that image here somewhere and I think it was posted in one of my threads. In any event it's a great image; as I said I've been wanting to set a story in that version of Canterlot ever since I first saw it.
>>353345
Not sure why those images were spoilered, I didn't think I spoilered them. Whatever, though.
Not sure why those images were spoilered, I didn't think I spoilered them. Whatever, though.
>>353285
>Is this genius or retarded?
It's impossible to say one way or the other without more information. How much is a "shitton?" If you're talking two, maybe three normal-sized paragraphs of whittled-down story-relevant information it's probably fine; if you're using this as an excuse to dump the character's entire biography on the reader at once it's probably not a good idea.
>>353298
Again, without knowing the details of what you're doing specifically I can't say yea or nay on whether it's good, but a couple of things jump out at me here:
>I only get one chance to show a normal day or two in the protag's life before shit hits the fan and he can't go back to his normal life.
Why exactly are you limited by this time frame? If the story is focused on specific events happening in the present and you don't have time for a long preamble, then you probably need to think long and hard about how important this backstory info really is.
>So I want to include everything now but that's probably a bad idea.
If this is what your gut instinct is telling you, it's probably worth listening to, or at least analyzing to see why it is your instinct is pulling you in this direction.
Again, since I don't know exactly what you have in mind I can't really say whether your idea is good or not, but here's what my gut instinct is telling me, based on past experience reading your work. My suspicion is that this is probably another "Silver Star's Magic Skateboard" moment, where you have a massive amount of detailed information that you feel needs to be conveyed to the reader, but probably a lot of what you consider essential isn't really all that essential. Offhand, I'm guessing a lot of it is stuff that could probably be pared down or even omitted. However, if all of it is actually essential, then you may have problems with how you're structuring the story. If the reader needs more information about the MC's backstory for the story to make sense or for the character to be sympathetic, you may want to reconsider this hyper-condensed "three days until SHTF" timeline you've set up. Can you start the story any earlier, or slow down the pacing to give the reader more time to learn about the MC's past? If so, then maybe you should consider just doing that. If you can't, then you'll probably have to trim the MC's backstory down to just the essentials and make peace with killing a few of your babies. You can either drop some ballast and make the ship go faster, or you can hold on to everything and prepare for a longer and slower voyage, but usually you can't have both.
>>353344
>My story's too black and white right now, a proof reader said to me. Too much "My race and my ways good, their race and their ways bad".
If you want to avoid being too black and white, the thing to do is to try and understand your villains from their own perspective, rather than from yours or from your hero's. What do your villains believe in, if anything? What motivates them? Why are they doing whatever it is they're doing? You don't have to justify it or make them sympathetic; you can still present them as evildoers. The thing is, though, nobody wakes up in the morning and says "today I'm going to be a dick to this one guy, because I'm evil and mwahahahaha." Anyone who does anything has a reason for doing it. It doesn't have to be a good reason or a just reason, it just has to make sense from the perspective of that character, taking into account his motivations and his personality.
>Obviously the enemy is evil, there's nothing redeemable about rapist orcs or goblin swindlers, that's as factual as the existence of space.
This right here is exactly how you shouldn't be thinking about this. Forget about good and evil for a moment, and imagine yourself in the position of one of these orcs or goblins. Who are these creatures? What motivates them to do what they do? Even if they're just dumb, simple, mean-spirited creatures motivated by base impulses, they aren't wind-up toys; they have at least some level of autonomy, and thus their acts of rape and swindling are conscious acts they carried out of their own freewill. If not, then your villains are basically just wild animals, and unless you're writing a survival story about humans facing giant sharks or killer lions, wild animals don't make for especially interesting adversaries.
In the case of your goblins and orcs, their motivations are probably selfish and petty: rape is an act of control driven by a combination of base lust and a desire to dominate and humiliate an enemy. Either you're directly dominating and humiliating the object of your hatred by raping it, or you're dominating and humiliating them by proxy, ie by raping your enemy's wife or daughter. Swindling is similar: it can be motivated by something as simple as callous greed ("I want to make a profit and I don't care about how it harms this person") or, again, as a means of domination or humiliation by proxy ("I hate those tricksy hobbitses, so I'm going to run a scam on them and cheat them out of their hard-earned shekels").
If you want compelling, interesting "bad guy" characters, it's better to have them motivated by something more compelling and interesting than simple, base impulses like "I'm horny and I won't take no for an answer" or "I need beer money and this retard looks like he'd fall for this dumb scam I cooked up." So, it's probably better to go with the desire to dominate and humiliate an enemy as motivation. In this case, you need to think about the source of these feelings of enmity. Why do your orcs and goblins hate your hero, or your hero's race? There's always a reason; maybe it involves misconstruing some perceived injury to justify whatever it is their baser impulses want to do anyway. "My ancestors were slaves 200 years ago, so I have every right to set this complete stranger's car on fire, steal his TV and rape his wife in front of him." That sort of thing.
>Is this genius or retarded?
It's impossible to say one way or the other without more information. How much is a "shitton?" If you're talking two, maybe three normal-sized paragraphs of whittled-down story-relevant information it's probably fine; if you're using this as an excuse to dump the character's entire biography on the reader at once it's probably not a good idea.
>>353298
Again, without knowing the details of what you're doing specifically I can't say yea or nay on whether it's good, but a couple of things jump out at me here:
>I only get one chance to show a normal day or two in the protag's life before shit hits the fan and he can't go back to his normal life.
Why exactly are you limited by this time frame? If the story is focused on specific events happening in the present and you don't have time for a long preamble, then you probably need to think long and hard about how important this backstory info really is.
>So I want to include everything now but that's probably a bad idea.
If this is what your gut instinct is telling you, it's probably worth listening to, or at least analyzing to see why it is your instinct is pulling you in this direction.
Again, since I don't know exactly what you have in mind I can't really say whether your idea is good or not, but here's what my gut instinct is telling me, based on past experience reading your work. My suspicion is that this is probably another "Silver Star's Magic Skateboard" moment, where you have a massive amount of detailed information that you feel needs to be conveyed to the reader, but probably a lot of what you consider essential isn't really all that essential. Offhand, I'm guessing a lot of it is stuff that could probably be pared down or even omitted. However, if all of it is actually essential, then you may have problems with how you're structuring the story. If the reader needs more information about the MC's backstory for the story to make sense or for the character to be sympathetic, you may want to reconsider this hyper-condensed "three days until SHTF" timeline you've set up. Can you start the story any earlier, or slow down the pacing to give the reader more time to learn about the MC's past? If so, then maybe you should consider just doing that. If you can't, then you'll probably have to trim the MC's backstory down to just the essentials and make peace with killing a few of your babies. You can either drop some ballast and make the ship go faster, or you can hold on to everything and prepare for a longer and slower voyage, but usually you can't have both.
>>353344
>My story's too black and white right now, a proof reader said to me. Too much "My race and my ways good, their race and their ways bad".
If you want to avoid being too black and white, the thing to do is to try and understand your villains from their own perspective, rather than from yours or from your hero's. What do your villains believe in, if anything? What motivates them? Why are they doing whatever it is they're doing? You don't have to justify it or make them sympathetic; you can still present them as evildoers. The thing is, though, nobody wakes up in the morning and says "today I'm going to be a dick to this one guy, because I'm evil and mwahahahaha." Anyone who does anything has a reason for doing it. It doesn't have to be a good reason or a just reason, it just has to make sense from the perspective of that character, taking into account his motivations and his personality.
>Obviously the enemy is evil, there's nothing redeemable about rapist orcs or goblin swindlers, that's as factual as the existence of space.
This right here is exactly how you shouldn't be thinking about this. Forget about good and evil for a moment, and imagine yourself in the position of one of these orcs or goblins. Who are these creatures? What motivates them to do what they do? Even if they're just dumb, simple, mean-spirited creatures motivated by base impulses, they aren't wind-up toys; they have at least some level of autonomy, and thus their acts of rape and swindling are conscious acts they carried out of their own freewill. If not, then your villains are basically just wild animals, and unless you're writing a survival story about humans facing giant sharks or killer lions, wild animals don't make for especially interesting adversaries.
In the case of your goblins and orcs, their motivations are probably selfish and petty: rape is an act of control driven by a combination of base lust and a desire to dominate and humiliate an enemy. Either you're directly dominating and humiliating the object of your hatred by raping it, or you're dominating and humiliating them by proxy, ie by raping your enemy's wife or daughter. Swindling is similar: it can be motivated by something as simple as callous greed ("I want to make a profit and I don't care about how it harms this person") or, again, as a means of domination or humiliation by proxy ("I hate those tricksy hobbitses, so I'm going to run a scam on them and cheat them out of their hard-earned shekels").
If you want compelling, interesting "bad guy" characters, it's better to have them motivated by something more compelling and interesting than simple, base impulses like "I'm horny and I won't take no for an answer" or "I need beer money and this retard looks like he'd fall for this dumb scam I cooked up." So, it's probably better to go with the desire to dominate and humiliate an enemy as motivation. In this case, you need to think about the source of these feelings of enmity. Why do your orcs and goblins hate your hero, or your hero's race? There's always a reason; maybe it involves misconstruing some perceived injury to justify whatever it is their baser impulses want to do anyway. "My ancestors were slaves 200 years ago, so I have every right to set this complete stranger's car on fire, steal his TV and rape his wife in front of him." That sort of thing.
>>353354
I'm going with realistic stuff for the orcs and goblins. Goblins are inherently narcissistic petty inbred freaks raised to think they're chosen ones destined for greatness, then they look around and see humble heroic whites building everything, maintaining everything, being the hosts parasitic goblins rely on. They see goblins wear wigs and bleach their skin and get surgery to look more like whites and they hate it. They were told to see us as inferior to be good little Goblins, but they can't because we're clearly not. "Good" Goblins who abandon the tribe and try to wake people up about the Goblin menace don't exist. Any goblin who wanted to betray the tribe would risk being killed or arrested by the goblins just like humans. And worse, if he wasn't killed or arrested, he would lose his goblin privileges in the goblin system and have to live like a human and survive on his own merits. No Goblin is worth as much as a human and deep down these parasites know they'd be nothing without the heroes the goblins hate for saving goblins. Goblins have this ritual where they get a farm animal and stone it to death while blaming it for all their sins. They rely on their betters to work for them and the last time they had to do manual labour they claim it killed them.
There are some "Good" exploding goatfuckers who don't blow up hospitals and instead find a comfortable existence in goatfucker communities paid by the Goblin with human money to move to the first world and take up space and breed. They abuse their women and force their ways onto their offspring when they arent forcing themselves on human kids. The ones who dont rape and dont explode but still play damage control for those who do while robbing the nation that houses and feeds them is the closest to "good" any goat can get aside from the ones who reject their religion openly and get death threats for it instead of doing what most do and pretend to follow their religion while privately ignoring all the parts they don't like. The goat religion worships a rapey subversive thieving barbarian warmonger who has child brides and thinks the sun sets on earth in a muddy spring to "get shiny". Something is fundamentally missing in the brains of Goblins that keeps them from empathizing with others. Goats come here to replace humans and live under a gentler tier of goblin rule than humans because it is so much easier than blowing up goblins and goblin places for taking over land the goats stole from the humans in the first place.
Orcs are savage beasts and to call them gorillas would insult every well behaved zoo gorilla, especially those who were taught sign language. They were tribes in mud huts killing and enslaving each other for generations until we ended the slave trade, but the Goblins who owned the slave trade and slave ships blamed the whites working on these boats for the entire slave trade. There were barely 4 million slaves in the Solar Empire back when Goblins running it did trade booze and weapons and drugs for orcnogs, but there are over 8 million slaves today in the Orc homeland of Orcia and Orcs don't give a shit about that when there are tvs to steal from whitey. The nicest thing anyone can do with all of these genetic failures is to send them to a place where they can't hurt themselves or others, like work camps or continents they don't mind completely giving up on. Understanding other perspectives is great and all but once you understand how wrong these perspectices are where do you go from here? Send the better educated and more intelligent (in comparison) whiteland Orcs and halfOrcs and quarterOrcs back to Orcia so they can try to make the world's first black nation that doesn't become a failed state depending on white handouts in record time?
The heroes are going to be humans or canine wolfmen who are basically humans. Modern audiences love nonhumans more than humans after all plus I enjoy drawing furries and I want the heroes to have cool animal powers. I should add other heroic countries to turn to the heros side, nations of bird people and fish people and snake people and horse people with their own ideologies and values.
Avatar would have felt too black and white if the only elements were the good Water Tribe and the evil Fire Nation. Fire is ambition and malice and harm, water is love and family and healing. It needed the Earth Kingdom and Air Nomads and good Fire Nation members to provide balance and other perspectives. There needed to be scenes where Water Tribe and Air Nomad people were clever, the show needed smart schemers like Azula to balance out evil hotheads like Zhao, the show needed Long Feng the manipulative Fire Nation style Earth Kingdom schemer obsessed with control and stability and he needed to lose to Azula. But when I look at what Avatar did with the Fire Nation I don't see how I can do the same. Zuko was banished for speaking out of turn at a military meeting, objecting to a cruel dishonourable tactic, and refusing to fight his own father in a duel. Not for objecting to the war itself. He and his mom still laughed at pre-redemption Iroh's "joke" about burning Ba Sing Se. They're good people but at this point they are still very Fire Nation. Seeing the good in other nations and himself was part of his growth. Book 2 Zuko in that Earth Kingdom village came a long way from the bratty prince who called Katara a peasant. Fire doesn't have to be destructive, it can be righteous fury, it can be holy and spiritual, it can be life. But the Rape Ape orcs and exploding goat fuckers and Goblin swindlers aren't fire, they're darkness, they're rot. What good thing could they do for others? Help the heroes take down an even worse threat I made up? I couldn't imagine anything worse than them if I had a gun to my head.
I'm going with realistic stuff for the orcs and goblins. Goblins are inherently narcissistic petty inbred freaks raised to think they're chosen ones destined for greatness, then they look around and see humble heroic whites building everything, maintaining everything, being the hosts parasitic goblins rely on. They see goblins wear wigs and bleach their skin and get surgery to look more like whites and they hate it. They were told to see us as inferior to be good little Goblins, but they can't because we're clearly not. "Good" Goblins who abandon the tribe and try to wake people up about the Goblin menace don't exist. Any goblin who wanted to betray the tribe would risk being killed or arrested by the goblins just like humans. And worse, if he wasn't killed or arrested, he would lose his goblin privileges in the goblin system and have to live like a human and survive on his own merits. No Goblin is worth as much as a human and deep down these parasites know they'd be nothing without the heroes the goblins hate for saving goblins. Goblins have this ritual where they get a farm animal and stone it to death while blaming it for all their sins. They rely on their betters to work for them and the last time they had to do manual labour they claim it killed them.
There are some "Good" exploding goatfuckers who don't blow up hospitals and instead find a comfortable existence in goatfucker communities paid by the Goblin with human money to move to the first world and take up space and breed. They abuse their women and force their ways onto their offspring when they arent forcing themselves on human kids. The ones who dont rape and dont explode but still play damage control for those who do while robbing the nation that houses and feeds them is the closest to "good" any goat can get aside from the ones who reject their religion openly and get death threats for it instead of doing what most do and pretend to follow their religion while privately ignoring all the parts they don't like. The goat religion worships a rapey subversive thieving barbarian warmonger who has child brides and thinks the sun sets on earth in a muddy spring to "get shiny". Something is fundamentally missing in the brains of Goblins that keeps them from empathizing with others. Goats come here to replace humans and live under a gentler tier of goblin rule than humans because it is so much easier than blowing up goblins and goblin places for taking over land the goats stole from the humans in the first place.
Orcs are savage beasts and to call them gorillas would insult every well behaved zoo gorilla, especially those who were taught sign language. They were tribes in mud huts killing and enslaving each other for generations until we ended the slave trade, but the Goblins who owned the slave trade and slave ships blamed the whites working on these boats for the entire slave trade. There were barely 4 million slaves in the Solar Empire back when Goblins running it did trade booze and weapons and drugs for orcnogs, but there are over 8 million slaves today in the Orc homeland of Orcia and Orcs don't give a shit about that when there are tvs to steal from whitey. The nicest thing anyone can do with all of these genetic failures is to send them to a place where they can't hurt themselves or others, like work camps or continents they don't mind completely giving up on. Understanding other perspectives is great and all but once you understand how wrong these perspectices are where do you go from here? Send the better educated and more intelligent (in comparison) whiteland Orcs and halfOrcs and quarterOrcs back to Orcia so they can try to make the world's first black nation that doesn't become a failed state depending on white handouts in record time?
The heroes are going to be humans or canine wolfmen who are basically humans. Modern audiences love nonhumans more than humans after all plus I enjoy drawing furries and I want the heroes to have cool animal powers. I should add other heroic countries to turn to the heros side, nations of bird people and fish people and snake people and horse people with their own ideologies and values.
Avatar would have felt too black and white if the only elements were the good Water Tribe and the evil Fire Nation. Fire is ambition and malice and harm, water is love and family and healing. It needed the Earth Kingdom and Air Nomads and good Fire Nation members to provide balance and other perspectives. There needed to be scenes where Water Tribe and Air Nomad people were clever, the show needed smart schemers like Azula to balance out evil hotheads like Zhao, the show needed Long Feng the manipulative Fire Nation style Earth Kingdom schemer obsessed with control and stability and he needed to lose to Azula. But when I look at what Avatar did with the Fire Nation I don't see how I can do the same. Zuko was banished for speaking out of turn at a military meeting, objecting to a cruel dishonourable tactic, and refusing to fight his own father in a duel. Not for objecting to the war itself. He and his mom still laughed at pre-redemption Iroh's "joke" about burning Ba Sing Se. They're good people but at this point they are still very Fire Nation. Seeing the good in other nations and himself was part of his growth. Book 2 Zuko in that Earth Kingdom village came a long way from the bratty prince who called Katara a peasant. Fire doesn't have to be destructive, it can be righteous fury, it can be holy and spiritual, it can be life. But the Rape Ape orcs and exploding goat fuckers and Goblin swindlers aren't fire, they're darkness, they're rot. What good thing could they do for others? Help the heroes take down an even worse threat I made up? I couldn't imagine anything worse than them if I had a gun to my head.
Is it retarded for me to literally invent good minorities and countries that can be our allies in our struggle for survival, or is it a smart writing choice that lets me make the world feel more fleshed out and lived in than "good place vs evil place and nothing matters beyond that"? I'm having a lot of fun drawing bird people and their weird bird people places.
>>353453
>Is it retarded for me to literally invent good minorities and countries that can be our allies in our struggle for survival
Yes.
>Is it retarded for me to literally invent good minorities and countries that can be our allies in our struggle for survival
Yes.
>>353455
It's a break from reality to have more countries than just the Light ones and Dark ones and ones that don't matter to their fight but it seems like a necessary one, like glossing over the logistical nightmare of preparing for a voyage across the ocean and the day to day mundanity of life on a weeks long intercontinental boat trip. I should add Fire people, Ice people, Water people, Plant people, maybe Earth and Air and Lightning people, interesting places in this fantasy world full of interesting people to save from the darkness.
It's a break from reality to have more countries than just the Light ones and Dark ones and ones that don't matter to their fight but it seems like a necessary one, like glossing over the logistical nightmare of preparing for a voyage across the ocean and the day to day mundanity of life on a weeks long intercontinental boat trip. I should add Fire people, Ice people, Water people, Plant people, maybe Earth and Air and Lightning people, interesting places in this fantasy world full of interesting people to save from the darkness.
>>353455
Sorry if it seems like I'm only asking these questions so I can ignore your answer. That's not my intention, I promise. While my insecurity compelled me to ask "Is this retarded?" because it's an idea I thought of, I don't see what's retarded about it.
Worst case scenario, it detracts from the awesomeness of the hero as an individual and maybe also ruins the message by making the heroes of this tale only able to accomplish their goal of defeating darkness by relying on people we cannot rely on to help us defeat darkness because they don't exist in our world.
But I have ruined previous stories I worked on by asking myself "Will this make the hero cooler?" instead of "Will this improve the story?" and I think it will improve the story if there were more nations in this world than just the Light Nation the heroes must save and the Dark Horde invading them from Darkland.
Sorry if it seems like I'm only asking these questions so I can ignore your answer. That's not my intention, I promise. While my insecurity compelled me to ask "Is this retarded?" because it's an idea I thought of, I don't see what's retarded about it.
Worst case scenario, it detracts from the awesomeness of the hero as an individual and maybe also ruins the message by making the heroes of this tale only able to accomplish their goal of defeating darkness by relying on people we cannot rely on to help us defeat darkness because they don't exist in our world.
But I have ruined previous stories I worked on by asking myself "Will this make the hero cooler?" instead of "Will this improve the story?" and I think it will improve the story if there were more nations in this world than just the Light Nation the heroes must save and the Dark Horde invading them from Darkland.
>>353453
It's only retarded if you make it retarded, but the amount of consideration you seem to be giving it sounds like it might be retarded.
It's only retarded if you make it retarded, but the amount of consideration you seem to be giving it sounds like it might be retarded.
>>353550
It's just a hunch. The way you're asking about it suggests that you may feel it's retarded. If it feels retarded, it's retarded.
It's just a hunch. The way you're asking about it suggests that you may feel it's retarded. If it feels retarded, it's retarded.
>>353551
I'm putting bird people in my story. Examples of the hero's goodness inspires loyalty in the good and loathing in the evil. Bird people, fish people, they all love the hero and his people.
I'm putting bird people in my story. Examples of the hero's goodness inspires loyalty in the good and loathing in the evil. Bird people, fish people, they all love the hero and his people.
File (): B34DCA83DE967A90E90034DB35072E1B-293072.jpg (286.2 KB, 818x720, Wow! Snide Glimmer!.jpeg)
>>353566
Satanic Dubs Nigel, you're always asking questions for (You)s, but have you made any steps towards writing your stories yet? Is the memory of Glim Gland's Grand Gaping Gala of Gay adventures still haunting you?
Satanic Dubs Nigel, you're always asking questions for (You)s, but have you made any steps towards writing your stories yet? Is the memory of Glim Gland's Grand Gaping Gala of Gay adventures still haunting you?
>>353570
The game is playable but 40% placeholder sprites and placeholder dialogue while I continue working. Intro still feels too long and devoid of action even after I decided the intro should feature three ordinary days in the hero's life before shit hits the fan.
The game is playable but 40% placeholder sprites and placeholder dialogue while I continue working. Intro still feels too long and devoid of action even after I decided the intro should feature three ordinary days in the hero's life before shit hits the fan.
>bee girl joins party because she realized the Goblins replaced her hive's Queen Bee with a Wasp ensuring the worker Bees will be outbred and replaced no matter how hard they work
>hero watches a documentary on history relevant to his people and world then makes it a YTP using a magic computer for fun to justify why he would watch a documentary on something he already knows
Or
>protagonist as a boy watches a documentary while his parents argue about money and politics in the background
Or
>hero goes to a cinema and watches a documentary with his girlfriend then rants to her about all the historical inaccuracies up to and including hiring Orcs to play important figures from his history, even though Orcs burn down theatres that do the reverse to Orcs and Orc characters.
Or
>one of hero's friends runs an illegal pirate radio station to give speeches about why rebellion is good and what the government is lying about this week
Or
>hero saves a library from monsters and is rewarded with a history book he reads in the next scene
Or
>hero is a child and his grandma redpills him on the jews and orcs with a history book, son reads it himself later when she dies and finds it is full of anti-his people propaganda, revisionist history demonizing his people, granny told him the real story she lived through because she wanted him to know the truth
Or
>hero tells his new amnesiac friend about all the history the aforementioned scenes would cover
Which is the best way to explain why the black Orcs hate us and the Goblins are to blame for this brutal irrational world we live in?
Or
>protagonist as a boy watches a documentary while his parents argue about money and politics in the background
Or
>hero goes to a cinema and watches a documentary with his girlfriend then rants to her about all the historical inaccuracies up to and including hiring Orcs to play important figures from his history, even though Orcs burn down theatres that do the reverse to Orcs and Orc characters.
Or
>one of hero's friends runs an illegal pirate radio station to give speeches about why rebellion is good and what the government is lying about this week
Or
>hero saves a library from monsters and is rewarded with a history book he reads in the next scene
Or
>hero is a child and his grandma redpills him on the jews and orcs with a history book, son reads it himself later when she dies and finds it is full of anti-his people propaganda, revisionist history demonizing his people, granny told him the real story she lived through because she wanted him to know the truth
Or
>hero tells his new amnesiac friend about all the history the aforementioned scenes would cover
Which is the best way to explain why the black Orcs hate us and the Goblins are to blame for this brutal irrational world we live in?
>>353755
>In which way should I introduce my infodump? A, B, C...
Just don't have an infodump. GG agrees, infodumps are boring. Why do you feel the need to do it this? Like do it if you really want to but know that I would get bored by a huge infodump explaining this whole world universe. This is the reason I had such a struggle to move past the first pages of the Fellowship of the ring.
>In which way should I introduce my infodump? A, B, C...
Just don't have an infodump. GG agrees, infodumps are boring. Why do you feel the need to do it this? Like do it if you really want to but know that I would get bored by a huge infodump explaining this whole world universe. This is the reason I had such a struggle to move past the first pages of the Fellowship of the ring.
>>353762
My story has stuff that's too complicated to cover in the one minute or less between gameplay segments I'm aiming for. Sure there are optional conversations where each pair of playable characters get three scenes of conversation each but how the hell do I casually work "And now I will tell you the story of my nation's birth, rise, and fall, and also my life's story" into those? Plus, I can't work this into those because they're optional and I have no guarantee everyone will see enough of them to understand the setting and conflict. I guess I could do a Mass Effect style "Monsterpedia" that explains each enemy type and also infodumps the backstory of the world, the central conflict, and each character onto players who care. But that feels inauthentic. How often do good books dump that shit in the back after the main story?
My story has stuff that's too complicated to cover in the one minute or less between gameplay segments I'm aiming for. Sure there are optional conversations where each pair of playable characters get three scenes of conversation each but how the hell do I casually work "And now I will tell you the story of my nation's birth, rise, and fall, and also my life's story" into those? Plus, I can't work this into those because they're optional and I have no guarantee everyone will see enough of them to understand the setting and conflict. I guess I could do a Mass Effect style "Monsterpedia" that explains each enemy type and also infodumps the backstory of the world, the central conflict, and each character onto players who care. But that feels inauthentic. How often do good books dump that shit in the back after the main story?
>be construction yard worker
>have tough horsegirl fren to contrast all the weak bitches and smart girl fren to contrast all the dumb bitches
>all three are here because this corrupt society doesn't want their kind doing what they are good at
>work for hours straight together and eventually get a break
>ignore comments from managers of managers of assistant managers and useless girls who sat around drinking tea together all day when you were working
>read historical fiction about life in an era important to the story later, rest head on table and fantasize about being in it
>combat level ensues even though shit hasn't hit the fan yet
>get to write funny awful dialogue for the fantasy segment probably
I fucking love narcolepsy. Any time I feel the need to squeeze more backstory in to explain a thing or squeeze more violence in because I fear people are getting bored the hero can pass out and relive a moment from his past or kill a hundred orcs in dreamland.
>be at library with frens
>search for good book to give to amnesiac fren
>this is represented in gameplay as a sudden fight with propaganda books that fly off the shelves to attack you
This moment feels a bit too divorced from reality. The hero isn't supposed to see shit that isn't there. This feels too videogamey. Unless the books are actually enchanted to attack as a form of defense against thoughtcrimers seeking out books in the forbidden section this probably shouldn't be here, right?
>have tough horsegirl fren to contrast all the weak bitches and smart girl fren to contrast all the dumb bitches
>all three are here because this corrupt society doesn't want their kind doing what they are good at
>work for hours straight together and eventually get a break
>ignore comments from managers of managers of assistant managers and useless girls who sat around drinking tea together all day when you were working
>read historical fiction about life in an era important to the story later, rest head on table and fantasize about being in it
>combat level ensues even though shit hasn't hit the fan yet
>get to write funny awful dialogue for the fantasy segment probably
I fucking love narcolepsy. Any time I feel the need to squeeze more backstory in to explain a thing or squeeze more violence in because I fear people are getting bored the hero can pass out and relive a moment from his past or kill a hundred orcs in dreamland.
>be at library with frens
>search for good book to give to amnesiac fren
>this is represented in gameplay as a sudden fight with propaganda books that fly off the shelves to attack you
This moment feels a bit too divorced from reality. The hero isn't supposed to see shit that isn't there. This feels too videogamey. Unless the books are actually enchanted to attack as a form of defense against thoughtcrimers seeking out books in the forbidden section this probably shouldn't be here, right?
>>353763
>How often do good books dump that shit in the back after the main story?
Sure, but how often do good books dump their whole backstory at the begining? Like, it can work. Like, I listen to the audiobook of Path of the Jedi and that's all lore and shit. However, I was already invested in that universe. Again LOTR The Fellowship of The Ring starts with an infodump on hobbiton. It's hard to get through but you do because you know it's a good story.
I just think those infodumps of your stories are boring and when I think about it, it's always been those blocks of texts that kills your stories for me, more than anything else.
You do you though.
>How often do good books dump that shit in the back after the main story?
Sure, but how often do good books dump their whole backstory at the begining? Like, it can work. Like, I listen to the audiobook of Path of the Jedi and that's all lore and shit. However, I was already invested in that universe. Again LOTR The Fellowship of The Ring starts with an infodump on hobbiton. It's hard to get through but you do because you know it's a good story.
I just think those infodumps of your stories are boring and when I think about it, it's always been those blocks of texts that kills your stories for me, more than anything else.
You do you though.
>>353784
On that note, you have paced out your exposition before. Two stories come to mind: The one where twi and RD are lesing out (or something (I don't remember)) and the one where twi and spike talks about how being a princess and her new crystal castle is awkward.
There plot happened yet nuggets of backstory came through in waves. Do that instead.
You don't even have to do it organically -- things doesn't have to be explained through subtle hints nor characters' dialogue. Just Cut your infordump paragraph into pieces and then insert those pieces into your plot just before the reader needs them to know what is going on.
On that note, you have paced out your exposition before. Two stories come to mind: The one where twi and RD are lesing out (or something (I don't remember)) and the one where twi and spike talks about how being a princess and her new crystal castle is awkward.
There plot happened yet nuggets of backstory came through in waves. Do that instead.
You don't even have to do it organically -- things doesn't have to be explained through subtle hints nor characters' dialogue. Just Cut your infordump paragraph into pieces and then insert those pieces into your plot just before the reader needs them to know what is going on.
>>353785
Those fimfics relied on the audience's familiarity with ponyland to understand the world and care about the characters for the duration of very short stories. I have to do a lot more if I want people to care about these fictional people and their plight without coming away from it saying retarded shit like "The heroes shouldn't've killed anyone and the Empire from Star Wars did nothing wrong aside from blowing up planets I didnt care about for not submitting, because I didnt see them doing enough evil shit to get me emotionally invested in their downfall". Even though they're a simplistic childish nazi germany allegory that lost a jungle war to prehuman savages in space vietnam like americans and work with fat jew mob bosses like Jabba the Hut aka jewed americans and follows the Tolkien-Orc Genghis Khan and Independence Day Aliens inspired "inhuman monsters conquering and spreading like a cancer until the leader is killed" trope exactly.
Proofreaders are complaining about the story's sudden frontloading of bleak darkness before the heroes start to rebel and make the world a better place. This would be so much easier if the villain was a god of darkness or nature sick of humanity's shit worshipped by Grimleal fanatics and convinced her globohomo ecocommunist global reset into a new world of wild animals and helpless servile slaves was the best thing to do, opposed by the god of light and knowledge and humanity and other white things and his loyal follower from the objectively good fantasy kingdom of niceness.
Those fimfics relied on the audience's familiarity with ponyland to understand the world and care about the characters for the duration of very short stories. I have to do a lot more if I want people to care about these fictional people and their plight without coming away from it saying retarded shit like "The heroes shouldn't've killed anyone and the Empire from Star Wars did nothing wrong aside from blowing up planets I didnt care about for not submitting, because I didnt see them doing enough evil shit to get me emotionally invested in their downfall". Even though they're a simplistic childish nazi germany allegory that lost a jungle war to prehuman savages in space vietnam like americans and work with fat jew mob bosses like Jabba the Hut aka jewed americans and follows the Tolkien-Orc Genghis Khan and Independence Day Aliens inspired "inhuman monsters conquering and spreading like a cancer until the leader is killed" trope exactly.
Proofreaders are complaining about the story's sudden frontloading of bleak darkness before the heroes start to rebel and make the world a better place. This would be so much easier if the villain was a god of darkness or nature sick of humanity's shit worshipped by Grimleal fanatics and convinced her globohomo ecocommunist global reset into a new world of wild animals and helpless servile slaves was the best thing to do, opposed by the god of light and knowledge and humanity and other white things and his loyal follower from the objectively good fantasy kingdom of niceness.
>>353791
>I have to do a lot more if I want people to care about these fictional people and their plight without coming away from it saying retarded shit like
Ehh, do you? I think simple characters can be fairly memorable and likeable. You don't need to flesh out everything about a character in one go neither do you need to establish the entire world and it's history in one go.
But sure, you have a point. But again, I don't see why you can't space this out.
Tbh, I can sort of sense what you want to have in this story. You scene where the main character discover the nature of the world he exists in. Bascially, you want your mc to get redpilled. Also, that the truth he finds is essentially the truth we find ourselves in since I get the feeling that your fictional universe is equivalent to our universe.
So it goes without saying that you want to establish the world before mc get redpilled and start to see through the veil. Then after this you want the plot to kick in. That's the feeling I get from you.
Try to slow down. You need the scenes where your main character goes through his daily routines, which establishes the wrongness of the world he exists in.
But I get this feeling that you want this for a game? A fighting game? If so, I suggest you take a note from Tekken 4: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f_t6eQxyOtc&ab_channel=LordCloudStrife
Keep it concise and focused. The shortness is of deep value. Probably a focus on motivation and plot.
>I have to do a lot more if I want people to care about these fictional people and their plight without coming away from it saying retarded shit like
Ehh, do you? I think simple characters can be fairly memorable and likeable. You don't need to flesh out everything about a character in one go neither do you need to establish the entire world and it's history in one go.
But sure, you have a point. But again, I don't see why you can't space this out.
Tbh, I can sort of sense what you want to have in this story. You scene where the main character discover the nature of the world he exists in. Bascially, you want your mc to get redpilled. Also, that the truth he finds is essentially the truth we find ourselves in since I get the feeling that your fictional universe is equivalent to our universe.
So it goes without saying that you want to establish the world before mc get redpilled and start to see through the veil. Then after this you want the plot to kick in. That's the feeling I get from you.
Try to slow down. You need the scenes where your main character goes through his daily routines, which establishes the wrongness of the world he exists in.
But I get this feeling that you want this for a game? A fighting game? If so, I suggest you take a note from Tekken 4: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f_t6eQxyOtc&ab_channel=LordCloudStrife
Keep it concise and focused. The shortness is of deep value. Probably a focus on motivation and plot.
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