With the revelations in these past couple days, it's become quite clear that the current /mlpol/ policy page is out of date and misleading, even intentionally so.
The most misleading statements is in the FAQ:
>What staff has administrative access to the server, and why?
>Atlas: super sexy owner of mlpol.net former /pol/lack, access because yes
This statement is untrue and misleading. Atlas is not the owner of /mlpol/ and has not been for some time now. This really should have been announced prior to the happening, but that's a separate discussion.
It is not acceptable to leave misleading information about the boards page, because it makes adequate transparency and community input impossible, so it really needs to be fixed as soon as reasonably possible. However, changing it is a very serious issue that warrants community discussion on the matter, so let's talk about what the policy board says, what anyone thinks it should say, and how it should be stated.
For starters, the topic above also relates to the staff rules, particularly rules #2:
>2. Staff will maintain a level of transparency with the community
This rule seemed clear enough when it was written, but now it seems as though it lacks specificity and is open to very liberal interpretation. The definition of transparency is easy enough to understand, but the wording "a level of transparency" is evidently vaguer than it seemed. According to recent revelations, informing the community about a change in ownership was not considered to be within that level of transparency, and leaving blatantly untrue statements on the policy page was deemed to be acceptable under said policy.
So the questions are is:
>What exactly is the staff's standard of transparency in regards to what the board deserves to know?
>What kinds of information are considered to be open to the community?
>How is the standard of transparency maintained and enforced, and what is the decision making process for revealing something or leaving it secret?
>What members of staff are responsible/accountable for making sure that the operations and issues concerning /mlpol/'s structure and community are disclosed to the public?
>On what basis is the community able to confidently trust that the staff is being honest and transparent with them, and how are users able to confirm this other than taking the policy page at face value?
>Does the /mlpol/ staff consider it necessary to inform the community about big changes in staffing, policy, ownership of the board or operations before they occur, or only after the matter?
>In the event that it occurs, do the staff have any policies concerning "sensitive" information deemed too risky to expose? (perhaps things such as personal information and doxxable data)
In addition, rule #2 outlines committments to the community made by the staff, but reveal very, very little about how the staff make decisions amongst themselves, how the staff is managed, and most importantly, how the staff policies are enforced. The Staff policy does mention some things thing in regards to rules are enforced and says in four places that staff found to break the rules face "punitive measures" up to immediate dismissal. Now, several of those lines are as-written described as zero-tolerance policies, but that is also questionable, because although rule #1 #3 and #4 serious and clear enough to call for those measures, rule #2 is, apparently, vague enough to be open to interpretation and has even be observably broken and disregarded either through premeditated intent or negligence before. Earlier discussions brought up the issue that zero tolerance policies might put persons on the defensive and potentially harm transparency. There are surely degrees of accountability between doing nothing and outright expulsion, but those degrees are not defined anywhere.
So, questions arise from that:
>How exactly does the /mlpol/ staff discipline itself?
>Are there degrees by which staff consider and account for alleged misconduct?
>Who is/are the final arbiter(s) for considering if/when actions by the staff violate the letter or spirit of the rules?
>How can the users of the board confidently trust that staff are accountable for inappropriate behavior?
>How do the staff con
The complications with rule #2 also proppose issues with rule #3:
>3. Staff will take all community suggestions into account
>As this is a community site and not a top-down dictatorship like some other sites user input is very important
Rule #3 is in essence contingent on the proper application of rule #2, because transparency is necessary for healthy site user input, and site user input is indeed very, very, very important because it distinguishes /mlpol/ from other chans where talking this stuff on /qa/ for weeks on end doesn't actually produce any long-term results. The community cannot voice it's opinions on matters if they are not punctually made aware of them, let alone if the policy page misleads them.
So, questions arise from that:
>Aside from merely using the board, how are the staff able to ensure that their decisions represent the will of the community?
>How, and through what mediums, does the staff make sure that community considerations are taken into account and fascilitate user input?
>On what matters is community consideration deemed to be necessary in decision making?
>How often does the staff seek out direct user input on matters of any kind?
135 replies and 30 files omitted.
>>5810>>How do the staff conThis is a typo. Please ignore the line.
>>5810Simple peasant here.
Again, if it is not broken and works fine, don't fix it.
Please get a mare and stop this caprice.
>>5835I think lack of transparency counts as broken. Definitely worth fixing, or at least talking about.
Also, the policy page is broken: it's misleading and has not been updated in years.
Also have a nice Button Mom
>>5835I don't know that cutie mark, who is she?
>>5861How do you not recognize Cream Heart (Button's Mom)?
>>5810Okay, here's a question: pertaining to this line:
>Atlas would have to give up control of the site and ownership of the domain to the next staff member in line if he broke this rule, currently this is PupperwoffNow, Atlas is no longer the owner of the site, and like the policy page dictated Pupper became the owner because he was supposed to be next "in line".
So now that Pupper is the owner of the site, who would be third in line if Pupper were to leave or become incapacitated? Is there another person in line of succession, and how would that determination be made?
>>5863>>5861She's one of the most poplar OCs in the fandom. She's got more art than some canon characters.
>>5872Is it weird how Button's Mom (OC) is more popular than Button Mash, a Hasbro-owned background pony?
The guy who made the Button Mash animation and got a C+D from Hasbro... Do you think he could have made a spinoff about his Button's Mom OC?
>>5873>Is it weird how Button's Mom (OC) is more popular than Button MashThat isn't really weird at all. Content is fueled by horniness.
Cream Heart is a top milf mare. Button mash is a colt, and a teriary character uin the show.
It also helps that she has nice colors and themes, and that she was in a popular fan animation at the height of the fandom.
There really should be a rule that disallows linking/advertising mlpol in clear web. Nowadays, 4chan is only for people who got banned from Reddit or Twitter. imo, this would be necessary to protect the future coziness of mlpol.
>>5878User rules #1 and #2 used be be "DO NOT TALK ABOUT /MLPOL/" listed twice. They changed it a few years back.
The policy page looks kind of awkward with them missing though. Skipping rule 10 wasfine because it's supposed to be an unwritten rule.
Tbh, the "no generals" rule could use some revision or clarification of what a "general" really is. /mlpol/, due to its slow nature and absurdly high bump limit (why is it so high, btw?), has a lot of threads that have lasted for months or even years, and series of threads that have lasted even longer.
Generals became cancerous in some regards on /mlp/ and /pol/, but it looks like we've got several that fit the definition but lack the name.
>>5880/sp/ was the first to be excepted, when a number of contributors were banned on /pol/. Anonfilly came later after being entirely banned on /mlp/. It has since and recently been welcomed back on 4chan but there are many fillies who resent how they were treated over there and are always welcome to lewd the filly here.
/mlh/ is a harmless funposting thread that due to that very high bump limit, will not consume the catalog. Also I think there was some drama to do with a 4chan jannie. Anyway, they're fine, as are the other more obscure ones.
The general consensus has been that the generals - in name or not - are not generals in the cancerous /mlp/ general sense, but that these generals are more generally generals.
>>5881>but that these generals are more generally generalsThat doesn't make any sense at all, but somehow I think I understand what you mean.
Anyway, the point is that the no generals rule might actually be a bit misconstrued. There are more generals than what you mentioned, like the 2-year old art thread, the writefag circle, the garbage can, the random news thread, the gif thread, the music thread, the "Jewish containment thread" and the various RP threads; all of those could be considered generals. Perhaps the long-term bumping of threads is a product of the "check the catalog first" rule, combined with the absurdly high bump limit, but we definitely have generals on /mlpol/.
The real question is whether or not we really disliked generals in the first place, or just wanted to dissassiate from the cancerous generals of /mlp/ and /pol/? The rule was written on the 4chan board, in the midst of sudden liberation from the trifles of the other two boards, and a high-speed explosion of content; in those two golden days, threads were being made every minute as other threads slid, but the board was still comfy. Of course, mlpol.net is pretty different from /mlpol/ in terms of speed and number of users, so it's questionable if that rule should remain when it seems as though the board users don't really care about it.
It's a hot take though, there were days of debate about whether or not /sg/ should have been given an exeption, and /filly/ had some drama when it was introduced, but whether or not those same distinctions apply to various other threads currently and potentially on the board is worth questioning.
Since the mainboard thread has been bu.plocked, I'll just post this here and see what happens.
>No staff member shall use the information he obtains in his position on staff for personal gain, lulz, or to harass/humiliate a user or other staff members
>The information of the users is sacred and shall not be used outside of needs by administration, we don't even have access to IP addresses from the users, we keep no logs, not even error logs, outside of what the website provides us directly.
>Using information for any purpose, including selling to others, data mining for malicious purposes, or for any reason are grounds for immediate removal from staff position, permanent banning from the site, and if the offense is serious enough, main staff will cooperate with law enforcement
>>5882>no generals rulePitching in here, a lot of the rules we have here were written when we were still on 4chan and are a result of the assumption that the mods and jannies wouldn't enforce any kind of quality control on the board, as they do. They were written the way they were to cement etiquette for the board culture. While generals are cancerous, the rule was specifically meant to avoid the situation that you see on /mlp/, where 80% of the board is generals and get almost no content at all. They purely exist to be bumped. We don't generally have that problem here outside of a couple threads (OiE and its offshoot thread) because we don't have the activity or shitposting that results in fast thread cycling, and thus bumping. So I've always assumed that the no generals rule on this site would be enforced to prevent bump generals.
Thanks for coming to my ted talk, here's a horse.
>5926
So mlpol is a hugbox now? I hurt OP's feelings? Oh how the mighty have fallen.
>I'm not sure what you're insinuating
I'm mostly talking about the lengthy period that Lotus deliberately - and known to staff - targeted, harrassed, edited/deleted the posts of, and even DOXXED a user because the user made him mad. Not exclusively, but mostly.
>you're obvious
No contest, if it were an accident, you might have a point.
>the rules arent actually rules
Be sure to include that if/when the policy is updated
>but but, I am being transparent
Only through coersion. That's not transparency, it's being caught with your pants down.
>inb4 thread is locked and I get another ban for refusing to allow the discussion to die, cuz staff is so committed to transparency
>>5927>ban youWhy? I've said my piece. If you want to continue making an ass of yourself all across the site I'm not going to stand in your way.
>>5930Well, I've already been banned for wrongthink and shitposting too hard, so it stands to reason another ban could land at any time for whatever reason. Besides, I never said (you)
>>5932I'll summarize.
Many users (and former staff) view(ed) the site policy and rules as a promise, a responsibility, and an obligation to the users.
As one of the aforementioned I feel a particular responsibility to see that site users be reasonably notified - regardless of how many jimmies are rustled and butts are hurt in the process - that policy enforcement lacks the conviction of the actual policy (read: its bs when desired) and has for some time. I can do little else than to see to it that the site gets the transparency that it was promised in the policy page (note the part about the page ostensibly constituting a legal contract part about legal contracts), no matter how 'optional' the rules are viewed by staff, as testified to by Elway. Integrity matters
>>5934>I'll summarize.When you do, you keep the quarrel going.
At this point who is in the right or wrong doesn't matter any longer as this shit has been dragged for too long and in an obsessive fashion by you.
Drop the matter and accept Friendship in your heart poner. Being butthurt for so long is pretty bad.
>>5935So is not digging the hole to bury the hatchet. I understand not breaking something because it's working. But this will eventually break without action in a near future.
The ground will have to be disturbed to make that hole now.
Else in the future 'quakes and shifts will tear apart what is loved by everyone. By then the healing would be bloody and torn.
So yes everything on top is fine now. Later is when issues inside and outside is going to be the root problems.
This is something that can be done now and is relatively light compared to the future clusterfuck incoming where it'll be all hands on deck including Anonymous shitposters of all sympathetic creeds.
The ride never ends, so let's make the best of it together.
>>5936A stitch in time, as it were
Still OP here.
>>5927Who are you replying to?
Also, I feel like you're referring to something that involved something said in one of my two threads a couple months ago. Tbh, I feel like bringing it up like this and bumping the thread is a bit off topic.
>>5930I thank you for that. You were very helpful with your replies to my questions.
Ugh, this board could really use IDs... It's impossible to tell posters apart.
>bumplocked thread spills over into existing thread about policy
e_e
Come on...
Ngl, the cp on the mainboard is the bigger issue
>>5945Tbh, I do see CP left on the main board for quite a while sometimes. Maybe there's some difficulties in staff patrolling.
I think that's a topic for another thread though.
>>5927>targeted, harrassed, edited/deleted the posts of, and even DOXXED a user made him madI know what you are talking about, because it involves me.
But, for the sake of civil discourse, could you freaking [i]not[\i] go there in this thread? I was working on that in my own way and trying to keep it discreet and for a reason. Bringing that up in thread to prove a point from some other thread really doesn't help me or anyone else.
This thread is about what the policy thread says, what it should say, what it means, and what it should mean, and Button's Mom. It was made in response to inacurracies after the ownership change. If you have another question that doesn't pertain to the topic, please keep it in it's own thread.
>>5940>OP here.>What is going on?Ooops.
It looks like someponer's rant was confused with yours.
>>5949Yeah, I can tell that much.
Also, this thread isn't meant to be a "rant", but serious discussion about what the policy page says and/or should say.
As it stands, the question of when/how the policy page will be fixed to be accurate is still in the air, but at this rate it might be a while before anyone is sure how it should be changed.
To attempt to get back on-topic...
Does the staff have any plans to update the policy page anytime soon?
>>5951To update the policy page would require an agreement as to what the new policy page would state. And a consensus on such a thing is not as easy as you may think.
>>5952That's what the thread is for.
>>5955 →>thread is unlocked, then posted in, then re-lockedNothing odd about that whatsoever
While I'm bumping this thread, I'll throw out a suggestion, something I'm sure everyone could agree on.
How about the policy page that's true. You know, accurate and consistent rules for posters and staff, based on precedent and/or an actual commitment to enforcement
>>5958That was my comment. I didnt unlock it.
Get your own thread, faggot.
>>5960And yet, that thread is locked and just happened to ha e been unlocked for (you).
Still sketch AF, but regardless, this IS the thread for discussing policy, yes?
>>5961I don't know why it was bumped.
Yes, this thread is about what the policy thread says. If you're gouing to post, do so in a productive manner.
>>5961>>5962To clarify. There was a bug in the code that sneaked in in the last update, or a few updated back, that made it possible to post to locked threads. So nothing nefarious about it.
Using sage atm.
Is there an estimated date and time for tea time? Or is there a better place I should have posted this?
>>6022/qtddtot/ would have been more accurate. Tea time hasnt been a thing for years
in spite of efforts by indivduals, though it would be the perfect place to announce a new/revised policy.
Having said, with recent acts by Discord a different platform would be advisable.
>>6022I think that question might have warranted it's own thread, if you have questions pertaining to Atlas and/or Tea With Atlas.
This this is just about what the policy page says, and how it needs to be updated. It's already pretty derailed now though.
>>6039I think Tea with Atlas needs to be brought back, even if Atlas himself doesn't host. I think tea with Atlas was beneficial to ensure that the userbase was in touch with the staff. I think we all miss it.