With the revelations in these past couple days, it's become quite clear that the current /mlpol/ policy page is out of date and misleading, even intentionally so.
The most misleading statements is in the FAQ:
>What staff has administrative access to the server, and why?
>Atlas: super sexy owner of mlpol.net former /pol/lack, access because yes
This statement is untrue and misleading. Atlas is not the owner of /mlpol/ and has not been for some time now. This really should have been announced prior to the happening, but that's a separate discussion.
It is not acceptable to leave misleading information about the boards page, because it makes adequate transparency and community input impossible, so it really needs to be fixed as soon as reasonably possible. However, changing it is a very serious issue that warrants community discussion on the matter, so let's talk about what the policy board says, what anyone thinks it should say, and how it should be stated.
For starters, the topic above also relates to the staff rules, particularly rules #2:
>2. Staff will maintain a level of transparency with the community
This rule seemed clear enough when it was written, but now it seems as though it lacks specificity and is open to very liberal interpretation. The definition of transparency is easy enough to understand, but the wording "a level of transparency" is evidently vaguer than it seemed. According to recent revelations, informing the community about a change in ownership was not considered to be within that level of transparency, and leaving blatantly untrue statements on the policy page was deemed to be acceptable under said policy.
So the questions are is:
>What exactly is the staff's standard of transparency in regards to what the board deserves to know?
>What kinds of information are considered to be open to the community?
>How is the standard of transparency maintained and enforced, and what is the decision making process for revealing something or leaving it secret?
>What members of staff are responsible/accountable for making sure that the operations and issues concerning /mlpol/'s structure and community are disclosed to the public?
>On what basis is the community able to confidently trust that the staff is being honest and transparent with them, and how are users able to confirm this other than taking the policy page at face value?
>Does the /mlpol/ staff consider it necessary to inform the community about big changes in staffing, policy, ownership of the board or operations before they occur, or only after the matter?
>In the event that it occurs, do the staff have any policies concerning "sensitive" information deemed too risky to expose? (perhaps things such as personal information and doxxable data)
In addition, rule #2 outlines committments to the community made by the staff, but reveal very, very little about how the staff make decisions amongst themselves, how the staff is managed, and most importantly, how the staff policies are enforced. The Staff policy does mention some things thing in regards to rules are enforced and says in four places that staff found to break the rules face "punitive measures" up to immediate dismissal. Now, several of those lines are as-written described as zero-tolerance policies, but that is also questionable, because although rule #1 #3 and #4 serious and clear enough to call for those measures, rule #2 is, apparently, vague enough to be open to interpretation and has even be observably broken and disregarded either through premeditated intent or negligence before. Earlier discussions brought up the issue that zero tolerance policies might put persons on the defensive and potentially harm transparency. There are surely degrees of accountability between doing nothing and outright expulsion, but those degrees are not defined anywhere.
So, questions arise from that:
>How exactly does the /mlpol/ staff discipline itself?
>Are there degrees by which staff consider and account for alleged misconduct?
>Who is/are the final arbiter(s) for considering if/when actions by the staff violate the letter or spirit of the rules?
>How can the users of the board confidently trust that staff are accountable for inappropriate behavior?
>How do the staff con
The complications with rule #2 also proppose issues with rule #3:
>3. Staff will take all community suggestions into account
>As this is a community site and not a top-down dictatorship like some other sites user input is very important
Rule #3 is in essence contingent on the proper application of rule #2, because transparency is necessary for healthy site user input, and site user input is indeed very, very, very important because it distinguishes /mlpol/ from other chans where talking this stuff on /qa/ for weeks on end doesn't actually produce any long-term results. The community cannot voice it's opinions on matters if they are not punctually made aware of them, let alone if the policy page misleads them.
So, questions arise from that:
>Aside from merely using the board, how are the staff able to ensure that their decisions represent the will of the community?
>How, and through what mediums, does the staff make sure that community considerations are taken into account and fascilitate user input?
>On what matters is community consideration deemed to be necessary in decision making?
>How often does the staff seek out direct user input on matters of any kind?
[Read more] 150 replies and 35 files omitted.
>>6241Huh, that's a good point.
>>6241What sort of alternative would you propose then?
>>6246Theres nothing to propose, its as comprehensive as I could imagine. It acknowledges that 9999 times the rules will be adhered to in spirit if not in letter and that is a responsibility of staff to enforce/maintain, but that on that 1 exception staff may exercise discretion in deviating from the rules.
Now, under what context staff has deviated from the rules bears consideration, though possibly in another thread?
In any case, such exceptional
assholes cases where deviation occurs are arguably where transparency becomes most important and I trust that staff - through tea time and other avenues - has made transparency a priority
>>6247It would be worth bringing that up at the next tea time then.
>>6248>Tea timeHow about too little, too late. You guys have been letting these fools push you around since the very start. This whooooole shitshow could've been avoided if you bothered to show any strength, oh, was it really around mid March? But don't mind me, you know. Might actually require you to get off your ass and do a quick edit and take out the trash. For crying out loud, gentlemen.
>>6250What the actual fuck are you talking about?
>>6251I believe that faggot is demanding action.
>>6252I don't understand. Action on what?
>>6253Not sure who or what exactly he wants, but it must be the OP
>>5810I'm not staff but I understand that things are running fine, therefore I oppose any changes, even to modify a simple dot.
>>6254I am the OP. Idk what Anon is referring to.
I'm just here to discuss board policy.
>>6254Even if you're opposed to changes, I hope you recognize that changes have been made before in the past, sometimes with little discussion. Perhaps in some cases they were good, or less good, but in any case it's important to talk about them.
So I hope you participate in the discussion to talk about potential and past changes, to critique what they might do or have done to us, so we can all maintain this comfy board.
>>6257Why? Can you really call this situation perfect?
>>6264It's not bad. I wouldn't call it perfect though.
>>6266Perfection is unattainable
>>6257For the time being, through no small amount of effort.
Lets not pretend that one singulat line in the policy page took 9ver a year to drag out. That "oh so hard" amendment that amounted to a full sentence.
You know, that thing that was unattainable.
Whats the story on THAT? IM not begrudging the shift its self, I find its quite apt.
What I WOULD like to know is how the delay and avoidance can be justified given that it literally took a single sentence. You do realize that the unwillingness to rise to a challenge is foremost on my issues to address with staff right?
Look, I get it better than most, you do it for free. That doesnt (or shouldnt) potentiate a decreased/eliminated motivation.
Ill break it down simply.
Why did it take a year and some exceptional strong-arm tactics to motivate a single sentence change to the policy page, and why did it go unmodified for so long? so long? [Read more] >>6267I guess that's a fair point.
>>6267I'm not sure what you meant by "strong arm tactics" though.
>>6269Whether youre being disingenuous, or entirely generous, unless you had a hand in delaying the aforementioned changes then your comprehension is unnecessary and irrelevant
>>6271Am I wrong? Is there something to be gained from your incomprehension?
>>6272Now you're just confusing me.
What are you talking about?
>>6267Ninjas, shut up. You were on staff for nine out of those twelve months, and you didn’t push for a change to the policy page.
Here’s a screenshot of you explicitly saying you were fine with not making a public notice that Atlas stepped down, dated July 31, 2020. Stop trying to convince people who weren’t there that you pushed for a policy page change, because you didn’t, and you didn’t care.
We didn’t change the sentence because of pressure from you. We know that you never cared about the sentence in the first place and it wouldn’t have pleased you to change it.
We did it for someone else.
>>6274Ah, the gaslighter in chief.
Yes, I acceeded to Pupper's insistence that no notice be made to the board, in spite of objections. I notice you neglect THAT part of the discussion, using a single out-of-context post to try and whitewash the exchange. Its almost like youre trying to rhetorically spin my position as being different from my professed intent. But you wouldnt do that would you, thats what a narcissist would do.
Why can't this argument have its own thread, ffs.
>>6277It doesnt have to be. The victory condition for this leg is 'own up to it'.
If I were on staff, it would be something like "I on behalf of staff apologize for the previous position of neglecting to notify the site users of changes in site structure. I further promise to not use bullshit excuses like 'its hard' when faced with some editing. Also, I wont delete/abuse posters who make me mad"
>>6278I think some of this is due to being unable to keep the thread on-topic...
Hello everyponer, I'm back.
If you poners allow me, This silly argument about the policy page is a storm in a teapot.
Just knock this caprice off and let everyponer back in business.
If you don't mind.
>>6280I'm not really trying to argue here. I'm still trying to figure out what Anon is talking about.
>>6282I am OP. I don't know what you mean about "supporters" because I haven't really called for anything.