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/mlpol/ Policy Page and FAQ Discussion
Anonymous
No.5810
5829 5835 5870 5877 6254
With the revelations in these past couple days, it's become quite clear that the current /mlpol/ policy page is out of date and misleading, even intentionally so.
The most misleading statements is in the FAQ:
>What staff has administrative access to the server, and why?
>Atlas: super sexy owner of mlpol.net former /pol/lack, access because yes
This statement is untrue and misleading. Atlas is not the owner of /mlpol/ and has not been for some time now. This really should have been announced prior to the happening, but that's a separate discussion.

It is not acceptable to leave misleading information about the boards page, because it makes adequate transparency and community input impossible, so it really needs to be fixed as soon as reasonably possible. However, changing it is a very serious issue that warrants community discussion on the matter, so let's talk about what the policy board says, what anyone thinks it should say, and how it should be stated.

For starters, the topic above also relates to the staff rules, particularly rules #2:
>2. Staff will maintain a level of transparency with the community
This rule seemed clear enough when it was written, but now it seems as though it lacks specificity and is open to very liberal interpretation. The definition of transparency is easy enough to understand, but the wording "a level of transparency" is evidently vaguer than it seemed. According to recent revelations, informing the community about a change in ownership was not considered to be within that level of transparency, and leaving blatantly untrue statements on the policy page was deemed to be acceptable under said policy.

So the questions are is:
>What exactly is the staff's standard of transparency in regards to what the board deserves to know?
>What kinds of information are considered to be open to the community?
>How is the standard of transparency maintained and enforced, and what is the decision making process for revealing something or leaving it secret?
>What members of staff are responsible/accountable for making sure that the operations and issues concerning /mlpol/'s structure and community are disclosed to the public?
>On what basis is the community able to confidently trust that the staff is being honest and transparent with them, and how are users able to confirm this other than taking the policy page at face value?
>Does the /mlpol/ staff consider it necessary to inform the community about big changes in staffing, policy, ownership of the board or operations before they occur, or only after the matter?
>In the event that it occurs, do the staff have any policies concerning "sensitive" information deemed too risky to expose? (perhaps things such as personal information and doxxable data)

In addition, rule #2 outlines committments to the community made by the staff, but reveal very, very little about how the staff make decisions amongst themselves, how the staff is managed, and most importantly, how the staff policies are enforced. The Staff policy does mention some things thing in regards to rules are enforced and says in four places that staff found to break the rules face "punitive measures" up to immediate dismissal. Now, several of those lines are as-written described as zero-tolerance policies, but that is also questionable, because although rule #1 #3 and #4 serious and clear enough to call for those measures, rule #2 is, apparently, vague enough to be open to interpretation and has even be observably broken and disregarded either through premeditated intent or negligence before. Earlier discussions brought up the issue that zero tolerance policies might put persons on the defensive and potentially harm transparency. There are surely degrees of accountability between doing nothing and outright expulsion, but those degrees are not defined anywhere.

So, questions arise from that:
>How exactly does the /mlpol/ staff discipline itself?
>Are there degrees by which staff consider and account for alleged misconduct?
>Who is/are the final arbiter(s) for considering if/when actions by the staff violate the letter or spirit of the rules?
>How can the users of the board confidently trust that staff are accountable for inappropriate behavior?
>How do the staff con

The complications with rule #2 also proppose issues with rule #3:
>3. Staff will take all community suggestions into account
>As this is a community site and not a top-down dictatorship like some other sites user input is very important
Rule #3 is in essence contingent on the proper application of rule #2, because transparency is necessary for healthy site user input, and site user input is indeed very, very, very important because it distinguishes /mlpol/ from other chans where talking this stuff on /qa/ for weeks on end doesn't actually produce any long-term results. The community cannot voice it's opinions on matters if they are not punctually made aware of them, let alone if the policy page misleads them.
So, questions arise from that:
>Aside from merely using the board, how are the staff able to ensure that their decisions represent the will of the community?
>How, and through what mediums, does the staff make sure that community considerations are taken into account and fascilitate user input?
>On what matters is community consideration deemed to be necessary in decision making?
>How often does the staff seek out direct user input on matters of any kind?
85 replies and 20 files omitted.
Anonymous
No.5829
>>5810
>>How do the staff con
This is a typo. Please ignore the line.
Anonymous
No.5835
5840 5847 5861
Awesome-pony-pics-my-little-pony-friendship-is-magic-35528808-811-918.png
>>5810
Simple peasant here.
Again, if it is not broken and works fine, don't fix it.
Please get a mare and stop this caprice.
Anonymous
No.5840
5847
1558681.png
>>5835
I think lack of transparency counts as broken. Definitely worth fixing, or at least talking about.
Also, the policy page is broken: it's misleading and has not been updated in years.
Also have a nice Button Mom
Anonymous
No.5847
sample_26166e405f70b24eebe9970d584c03cb21b5f53b.jpg
>>5835
>>5840
Very nice mare.
Anonymous
No.5861
5862 5872
>>5835
I don't know that cutie mark, who is she?
Anonymous
No.5862
5863
>>5861
How do you not recognize Cream Heart (Button's Mom)?
Anonymous
No.5863
5872
68dbc99598ba183670f311765d560fa0.jpg
>>5862
>Cream Heart
Now I know. Thank you.
Anonymous
No.5870
5875
2074506.jpg
>>5810
Okay, here's a question: pertaining to this line:
>Atlas would have to give up control of the site and ownership of the domain to the next staff member in line if he broke this rule, currently this is Pupperwoff
Now, Atlas is no longer the owner of the site, and like the policy page dictated Pupper became the owner because he was supposed to be next "in line".
So now that Pupper is the owner of the site, who would be third in line if Pupper were to leave or become incapacitated? Is there another person in line of succession, and how would that determination be made?
Anonymous
No.5872
5873
>>5863
>>5861
She's one of the most poplar OCs in the fandom. She's got more art than some canon characters.
Anonymous
No.5873
5874
>>5872
Is it weird how Button's Mom (OC) is more popular than Button Mash, a Hasbro-owned background pony?
The guy who made the Button Mash animation and got a C+D from Hasbro... Do you think he could have made a spinoff about his Button's Mom OC?
Anonymous
No.5874
>>5873
>Is it weird how Button's Mom (OC) is more popular than Button Mash
That isn't really weird at all. Content is fueled by horniness.
Cream Heart is a top milf mare. Button mash is a colt, and a teriary character uin the show.
It also helps that she has nice colors and themes, and that she was in a popular fan animation at the height of the fandom.
Anonymous
No.5875
6119497.jpg
>>5870
bump
Anonymous
No.5877
>>5810
Responses to questions in the OP:
>>5825 →
>>5830 →
>>5832 →
>>5843 →
>>5846 →
Anonymous
No.5878
5879
There really should be a rule that disallows linking/advertising mlpol in clear web. Nowadays, 4chan is only for people who got banned from Reddit or Twitter. imo, this would be necessary to protect the future coziness of mlpol.
Anonymous
No.5879
>>5878
User rules #1 and #2 used be be "DO NOT TALK ABOUT /MLPOL/" listed twice. They changed it a few years back.
The policy page looks kind of awkward with them missing though. Skipping rule 10 wasfine because it's supposed to be an unwritten rule.
Anonymous
No.5880
5881
Tbh, the "no generals" rule could use some revision or clarification of what a "general" really is. /mlpol/, due to its slow nature and absurdly high bump limit (why is it so high, btw?), has a lot of threads that have lasted for months or even years, and series of threads that have lasted even longer.
Generals became cancerous in some regards on /mlp/ and /pol/, but it looks like we've got several that fit the definition but lack the name.
Ninjas
No.5881
5882
>>5880
/sp/ was the first to be excepted, when a number of contributors were banned on /pol/. Anonfilly came later after being entirely banned on /mlp/. It has since and recently been welcomed back on 4chan but there are many fillies who resent how they were treated over there and are always welcome to lewd the filly here.
/mlh/ is a harmless funposting thread that due to that very high bump limit, will not consume the catalog. Also I think there was some drama to do with a 4chan jannie. Anyway, they're fine, as are the other more obscure ones.
The general consensus has been that the generals - in name or not - are not generals in the cancerous /mlp/ general sense, but that these generals are more generally generals.
Anonymous
No.5882
5893
>>5881
>but that these generals are more generally generals
That doesn't make any sense at all, but somehow I think I understand what you mean.
Anyway, the point is that the no generals rule might actually be a bit misconstrued. There are more generals than what you mentioned, like the 2-year old art thread, the writefag circle, the garbage can, the random news thread, the gif thread, the music thread, the "Jewish containment thread" and the various RP threads; all of those could be considered generals. Perhaps the long-term bumping of threads is a product of the "check the catalog first" rule, combined with the absurdly high bump limit, but we definitely have generals on /mlpol/.
The real question is whether or not we really disliked generals in the first place, or just wanted to dissassiate from the cancerous generals of /mlp/ and /pol/? The rule was written on the 4chan board, in the midst of sudden liberation from the trifles of the other two boards, and a high-speed explosion of content; in those two golden days, threads were being made every minute as other threads slid, but the board was still comfy. Of course, mlpol.net is pretty different from /mlpol/ in terms of speed and number of users, so it's questionable if that rule should remain when it seems as though the board users don't really care about it.
It's a hot take though, there were days of debate about whether or not /sg/ should have been given an exeption, and /filly/ had some drama when it was introduced, but whether or not those same distinctions apply to various other threads currently and potentially on the board is worth questioning.
Anonymous
No.5883
Since the mainboard thread has been bu.plocked, I'll just post this here and see what happens.
>No staff member shall use the information he obtains in his position on staff for personal gain, lulz, or to harass/humiliate a user or other staff members
>The information of the users is sacred and shall not be used outside of needs by administration, we don't even have access to IP addresses from the users, we keep no logs, not even error logs, outside of what the website provides us directly.
>Using information for any purpose, including selling to others, data mining for malicious purposes, or for any reason are grounds for immediate removal from staff position, permanent banning from the site, and if the offense is serious enough, main staff will cooperate with law enforcement
Anonymous
No.5893
1485718.png
>>5882
>no generals rule
Pitching in here, a lot of the rules we have here were written when we were still on 4chan and are a result of the assumption that the mods and jannies wouldn't enforce any kind of quality control on the board, as they do. They were written the way they were to cement etiquette for the board culture. While generals are cancerous, the rule was specifically meant to avoid the situation that you see on /mlp/, where 80% of the board is generals and get almost no content at all. They purely exist to be bumped. We don't generally have that problem here outside of a couple threads (OiE and its offshoot thread) because we don't have the activity or shitposting that results in fast thread cycling, and thus bumping. So I've always assumed that the no generals rule on this site would be enforced to prevent bump generals.

Thanks for coming to my ted talk, here's a horse.
Anonymous
No.5927
5930 5940 5941 5948
>5926
So mlpol is a hugbox now? I hurt OP's feelings? Oh how the mighty have fallen.
>I'm not sure what you're insinuating
I'm mostly talking about the lengthy period that Lotus deliberately - and known to staff - targeted, harrassed, edited/deleted the posts of, and even DOXXED a user because the user made him mad. Not exclusively, but mostly.
>you're obvious
No contest, if it were an accident, you might have a point.
>the rules arent actually rules
Be sure to include that if/when the policy is updated
>but but, I am being transparent
Only through coersion. That's not transparency, it's being caught with your pants down.
>inb4 thread is locked and I get another ban for refusing to allow the discussion to die, cuz staff is so committed to transparency
John Elway
## Moderator
No.5930
5931 5941
>>5927
>ban you
Why? I've said my piece. If you want to continue making an ass of yourself all across the site I'm not going to stand in your way.
Anonymous
No.5931
>>5930
Well, I've already been banned for wrongthink and shitposting too hard, so it stands to reason another ban could land at any time for whatever reason. Besides, I never said (you)
Anonymous
No.5932
5934
2da3.png
C'mon everypony.
Anonymous
No.5934
5935
img-2214612-1-full.png
>>5932
I'll summarize.
Many users (and former staff) view(ed) the site policy and rules as a promise, a responsibility, and an obligation to the users.
As one of the aforementioned I feel a particular responsibility to see that site users be reasonably notified - regardless of how many jimmies are rustled and butts are hurt in the process - that policy enforcement lacks the conviction of the actual policy (read: its bs when desired) and has for some time. I can do little else than to see to it that the site gets the transparency that it was promised in the policy page (note the part about the page ostensibly constituting a legal contract part about legal contracts), no matter how 'optional' the rules are viewed by staff, as testified to by Elway. Integrity matters
Anonymous
No.5935
5936
Friendship-is-Magic-my-little-pony-friendship-is-magic-28564514-1920-1080.png
>>5934
>I'll summarize.
When you do, you keep the quarrel going.
At this point who is in the right or wrong doesn't matter any longer as this shit has been dragged for too long and in an obsessive fashion by you.
Drop the matter and accept Friendship in your heart poner. Being butthurt for so long is pretty bad.
Anonymous
No.5936
5937
882564__safe_twilight+sparkle_pinkie+pie_applejack_female_pony_mare_alicorn_screencap_edit_twilight+sparkle+(alicorn)_animated_edited+screencap_c.gif
>>5935
So is not digging the hole to bury the hatchet. I understand not breaking something because it's working. But this will eventually break without action in a near future.
The ground will have to be disturbed to make that hole now.

Else in the future 'quakes and shifts will tear apart what is loved by everyone. By then the healing would be bloody and torn.
So yes everything on top is fine now. Later is when issues inside and outside is going to be the root problems.
This is something that can be done now and is relatively light compared to the future clusterfuck incoming where it'll be all hands on deck including Anonymous shitposters of all sympathetic creeds.
The ride never ends, so let's make the best of it together.
Anonymous
No.5937
r-reeee-900056-artist-needed-fluttershy-pepe-the-frog-reeee-52027026.png
>>5936
A stitch in time, as it were
Anonymous
No.5940
5949
>>5927
OP here.
What is going on?
Anonymous
No.5941
Still OP here.
>>5927
Who are you replying to?
Also, I feel like you're referring to something that involved something said in one of my two threads a couple months ago. Tbh, I feel like bringing it up like this and bumping the thread is a bit off topic.
>>5930
I thank you for that. You were very helpful with your replies to my questions.
Anonymous
No.5942
Ugh, this board could really use IDs... It's impossible to tell posters apart.
Anonymous
No.5943
Wtf was >>5926 → ?
Anonymous
No.5944
>bumplocked thread spills over into existing thread about policy
e_e
Come on...
Anonymous
No.5945
5946
Ngl, the cp on the mainboard is the bigger issue
Anonymous
No.5946
>>5945
Tbh, I do see CP left on the main board for quite a while sometimes. Maybe there's some difficulties in staff patrolling.
I think that's a topic for another thread though.
Anonymous
No.5948
>>5927
>targeted, harrassed, edited/deleted the posts of, and even DOXXED a user made him mad
I know what you are talking about, because it involves me.
But, for the sake of civil discourse, could you freaking [i]not[\i] go there in this thread? I was working on that in my own way and trying to keep it discreet and for a reason. Bringing that up in thread to prove a point from some other thread really doesn't help me or anyone else.

This thread is about what the policy thread says, what it should say, what it means, and what it should mean, and Button's Mom. It was made in response to inacurracies after the ownership change. If you have another question that doesn't pertain to the topic, please keep it in it's own thread.
Anonymous
No.5949
5950
ac1b7.gif
>>5940
>OP here.
>What is going on?
Ooops.
It looks like someponer's rant was confused with yours.
Anonymous
No.5950
>>5949
Yeah, I can tell that much.
Also, this thread isn't meant to be a "rant", but serious discussion about what the policy page says and/or should say.
As it stands, the question of when/how the policy page will be fixed to be accurate is still in the air, but at this rate it might be a while before anyone is sure how it should be changed.
Anonymous
No.5951
5952
To attempt to get back on-topic...
Does the staff have any plans to update the policy page anytime soon?
Lotus
## Admin
No.5952
5953
>>5951
To update the policy page would require an agreement as to what the new policy page would state. And a consensus on such a thing is not as easy as you may think.
Anonymous
No.5953
>>5952
That's what the thread is for.
Anonymous
No.5958
5960
>>5955 →
>thread is unlocked, then posted in, then re-locked
Nothing odd about that whatsoever
Anonymous
No.5959
While I'm bumping this thread, I'll throw out a suggestion, something I'm sure everyone could agree on.
How about the policy page that's true. You know, accurate and consistent rules for posters and staff, based on precedent and/or an actual commitment to enforcement
Anonymous
No.5960
5961
>>5958
That was my comment. I didnt unlock it.
Get your own thread, faggot.
Anonymous
No.5961
5962 5964
>>5960
And yet, that thread is locked and just happened to ha e been unlocked for (you).
Still sketch AF, but regardless, this IS the thread for discussing policy, yes?
Anonymous
No.5962
5964
>>5961
I don't know why it was bumped.
Yes, this thread is about what the policy thread says. If you're gouing to post, do so in a productive manner.
Pupper
## Admin
No.5964
>>5961
>>5962
To clarify. There was a bug in the code that sneaked in in the last update, or a few updated back, that made it possible to post to locked threads. So nothing nefarious about it.
Anonymous
No.6022
6039 6040
Using sage atm.
Is there an estimated date and time for tea time? Or is there a better place I should have posted this?
Anonymous
No.6039
6040
>>6022
/qtddtot/ would have been more accurate. Tea time hasnt been a thing for years in spite of efforts by indivduals, though it would be the perfect place to announce a new/revised policy.
Having said, with recent acts by Discord a different platform would be advisable.
Anonymous
No.6040
6043
>>6022
I think that question might have warranted it's own thread, if you have questions pertaining to Atlas and/or Tea With Atlas.

This this is just about what the policy page says, and how it needs to be updated. It's already pretty derailed now though.
>>6039
I think Tea with Atlas needs to be brought back, even if Atlas himself doesn't host. I think tea with Atlas was beneficial to ensure that the userbase was in touch with the staff. I think we all miss it.
Anonymous
No.6043
6044 6050
>>6040
>tea with Atlas
>without Atlas
Not exactly Tea with Atlas in that event, and the use of TG e name is as inappropriate as camping on a 2+ year out-of-date policy 'cuz changing the policy is HAAAAARD'

It doesnt matter if it's hard. It doesnt matter (or it shouldnt) that finding a consensus is difficult. That's literally the JOB of staff, who have proven an abysmal and unconscionable dereliction of duty. But it's okay, cuz we have pony emojis right?
Anonymous
No.6044
6045 6048 6059
>>6043
Of course it wouldn't be Tea with Atlas, but something similar would be nice. Maybe where we all sit down in a cytube or something and talk about politics briefly and users can directly ask questions about the site. Just call it "Tea Time" or something snappier.
>'cuz changing the policy is HAAAAARD'
I think the policy could use some amendment, but i think the first step should just be to errata the page. We can all agree that the inaccurrate parts should be fixed:
>Only a few have admin access -> All staff have admin access
>Site is owned by Atlas -> Site is owned by Pupper
>Next in line for owner is Pupper -> ??? (still waiting for the answer to that. who gets the keys if Pupper is kill?)
These inacurracies shouldn't be hard to fix, with the exception of maybe the last one (I really hope somebody actually know the answer to that question though).
The actual policy itself could use revision too, but it shouldn't be difficult to correct the page before hand.
>pony emojis
Say what now?
Anonymous
No.6045
6046
>>6044
:anon: :anonfilly: :iwtci-twi-pussy: :twilight-sparkle:
Use this -> :
Anonymous
No.6046
6047
>>6045
Wtf, when did we get those?
Anonymous
No.6047
>>6046
>>>/mlpol/307600 →
:iwtci-aj-pussy: :iwtci-flutter-pussy: :iwtci-pinkie-pussy: :iwtci-rari-pussy: :iwtci-rd-pussy: :iwtci-twi-pussy:
Anonymous
No.6048
6049 6051 6059
>>6044
Oh, theres far more about the policy that is fallacious. For example: should a staff member be found to be violating staff policy, precedent indicates that they will NOT be removed/banned, but be welcomed back with open arms and with no lasting consequence consequence. That is, when a staff member has ACTUALLY targeted, harassed, and doxxed a user. This policy (in conflict with the written policy) was enacted by Atlas himself, and occurred on more than one occasion.
As far as bans, there really are no rules. I got banned for shitposting and hiring some newfags feelings, while Nigel got banned for - and I'm quoting - Lol, cuz you cant control yourself. I'd love to see THAT one justified by the existing policy
Anonymous
No.6049
>>6048
*hurting
Anonymous
No.6050
6053 6054
Yk8XaG1.png
>>6043
>But it's okay, cuz we have pony emojis right?
>Muh policy page
Sarcasm aside, I think the policy page is fine as it is.
If it's not broken, why fix it?
And I know, I know; according to you, that page should be modified just to please you.
Anonymous
No.6051
6053
>>6048
>I got banned for shitposting and hiring some newfags feelings
C'mon, you're back, right? So such a ban wasn't a big deal.
In the end, I think, it is about to temper some aggressive feelings.
Anonymous
No.6052
:iwtci-aj-pussy: horse pussy
Anonymous
No.6053
>>6050
>the policy page is false, I see no problem
It IS broken
>>6051
So you think that the site should cater to feelings? I'm fine with that. state it in the policy
>We reserve the right to ban posters for saying mean things
What kind of SJW-tier shit is that?
Anonymous
No.6054
6056
>>6050
It's literally broken. It's inaccurate and misleading.
Did you not read the first 20-something posts of this thread?
Anonymous
No.6055
6057 6059
Before we get into side arguments over what offenses are bannable (which could be its own thread), can we just agree that those few inaccurate parts of the policy page should be fixed? Not even changing the policy, just updating the page.
It really shouldn't be that hard to replace a few lines of text.
Anonymous
No.6056
6060
>>6054
>It's literally broken. It's inaccurate and misleading.
So?
Anonymous
No.6057
6060 6068
1848827.png
>>6055
>It really shouldn't be that hard to replace a few lines of text.
I oppose that idea, not because it is right or wrong, but because of your non spoken motives.
Lotus
## Admin
No.6058
6060
6094381.png
It is done.

Policy page, sans rules list, updated
https://mlpol.net/policy
John Elway
## Moderator
No.6059
6060
>>6044
>>Only a few have admin access -> All staff have admin access
This is actually a quirk of the new board code, not something that was done by design. Pupper would have to explain the technical details but for whatever reason dividing permissions between roles is complicated. So, for the time being all staff have the same level of permissions. As far as I know it's on the list of things that will eventually be fixed.

>>Next in line for owner is Pupper -> ??? (still waiting for the answer to that. who gets the keys if Pupper is kill?)
Most likely if anything happened the site would pass to either Lotus or myself, depending on who wanted it and who was available.

>>6055
>Not even changing the policy, just updating the page.
>It really shouldn't be that hard to replace a few lines of text.
Updated.
https://mlpol.net/policy

>>6048
>As far as bans, there really are no rules. I got banned for shitposting and hiring some newfags feelings, while Nigel got banned for - and I'm quoting - Lol, cuz you cant control yourself. I'd love to see THAT one justified by the existing policy
Bans are handed out infrequently if at all. It's pretty much a last-resort option we use to deal with users who are being super-obnoxious and can't be reasoned with through any other means. You, of course, would know this perfectly well. If you'd like us to order you any kind of soothing balm for your still-aching bum-wounds by all means let us know.
Anonymous
No.6060
6061
>>6056
The policy Page's only purpose is to state the policy. If it's misleading, it should be fixed.
>>6057
What are you talking about?
I think you're confusing me for one of the other guys in this thread.
>>6058
>>6059
Thank you.
Anonymous
No.6061
6062
>>6060
Would you stop now?
Anonymous
No.6062
6063
>>6061
Stop what?
Again, I think you're confusing me for someone else.
Anonymous
No.6063
6064
>>6062
>Stop what?
The unending rant.
Anonymous
No.6064
>>6063
I haven't been ranting about anything. I'm just trying to get the thread back on track since it's been derailed repeatedly.
There's like five other Anons here right now and nobody can tell them apart because this board doesn't have IDs.
Anonymous
No.6065
6066
>buck breaking apologists
Aww, I kind of liked that meme for what it was worth. Maybe it's better off staying on 4chins though.
Pupper
## Admin
No.6066
6067 6069
>>6065
Updated page. Removed it as you are right, and it might become stale after a while having it there.
Anonymous
No.6067
>>6066
Good call.
Anonymous
No.6068
6071 6073
>>6057
Sometimes I wish there were ways for users to tell each other apart on this board, because Anons getting needlessly antagonistic about "motives" has become a trend in the past few months. It's become really cancerous.
Anonymous
No.6069
6070
_dabbing_apple__by_cayfie-db0t37z.png
>>6066
Brilliant. It would have been nice if it didnt require belligerent coersion to pull that out of you. I rest my case though, as promised
For fucks sake, that didnt need to have taken a goddamn year. I told you I would make you do it though
Anonymous
No.6070
>>6069
Coercion? Dude, wtf.
Anonymous
No.6071
6072 6073 6074 6085
>>6068
>Anons getting needlessly antagonistic about "motives"
>needlessly
Not quiet "needlessly" when you get a grasp in human psychology and the implications of the modifying the policy page, which very well be used to cause mayhem by cornering the staff.
A fuzzy policy page is imperative to avoid that.
Anonymous
No.6072
6073
>>6071
>cause mayhem by cornering the staff
That is nonsense. There are easier ways to cause mayhem.
>A fuzzy policy page is imperative to avoid that.
>fuzzy
This is even more nonsense.
Do you want a "fuzzy" constitution and a "fuzzy" bill of rights too? Do you think the Scruffening was good when countless Anon's were banned for "fuzzy" reasons, or 4/pol/ staff's "fuzzy" decision making process for what threads they leave up and what threads get deleted? Do you endorse Discord's "fuzzy" policy for what servers it scrubs and what it leaves up? Does that really sound like what makes a good platform to you?

Rules exist for a reason. policies don't need to be draconian; they just need to be clear. A concise policy is a good thing, so long as it's actually good.
It's important too. It's important because the policy and how it's followed/enforced is part of what /mlpol/ offers to attract users and maintain its current userbase. It's supposed to be one of the things that makes us better than 4/pol/ or any of the other chans. At the very least it's worth making sure that users know what it is and trust that it's properly implemented. Some anons get angry over things, but that's just part of the package of having a board where meta discussion actually means things.

But so we're on the same page, what sort of "implications" are you talking about? It's not like the policy page hasn't been amended before. Rules one and two were deleted, even though they were once considered so important that they needed to be posted twice.
Lotus
## Admin
No.6073
6075 6076 6078 6085
For those of you who don't know, "Ninjas" was on staff for three years (March 2018 to the beginning of March 2021), and during that time did and said absolutely nothing to try to update the policy page and rule page. The only reason he pretends to care now is to attempt to incite a personal army to exact revenge against Pupperwoff or the staff or something.

>>6071
>>6072
The rule page we have now, with a few minor changes, is almost one for one based on a meme created on 4chan four years ago. It has only so much relation to how rules are and have been enforced on the website.

I think it needs to be changed. The problem is deciding on what it should be replaced with. It's not enough to say "it needs to be changed," because it must necessarily be changed to something else specific.

>>6068
We can turn on IDs, at least in specific threads, if necessary.
Anonymous
No.6074
>>6071
Also
>Not quiet "needlessly" when you get a grasp in human psychology
Anon, I really don't think that's the right way to approach it on an Anonymous board. You're assigning extra traits and motives to someone who is probably just very angry/autistic, and because of that you're closing yourself off to civil discussion: basically internal ad homenim. It's an internet equivalent to road rage.
Also it doesn't help that you can't really be sure who's making which post. I know that someone (maybe you and/or maybe someone else), has confused my posts with someone else's posts dozens of times in this thread alone and reacted with unfounded hostility as a result.
tl;dr, just chill, m8.
Anonymous
No.6075
6077
>>6073
I mean, IDs could help with confusing anons for others, but I also think they might also do more harm than good considering how long threads go for before they slide... That's why I haven't asked for it. It's alright like this, for now.
Really, it shouldn't matter "who" says something when it's really just the reasoning that counts
>based on the meme created on 4chsn years ago
Yeah, I remember. I was in that thread.
Truth be told, that meme was created back in the time when /mlpol/ was envisioned as a high-speed, self-maintaining community that didn't even need moderation because anon's would simply slide all of the shill threads and scare away redditors by spamming horse porn and memes. It's still my vision of an ideal /mlpol/, although reality is that we function very differently from the board back in April.
I wouldn't say the policy needs any drastic overhaul, but I do think it's just worth discussing what we want our site to be like going forward. Opening the discussion gives room for Anons to say what they want.
Anonymous
No.6076
6078
>>6073
>more gaslighting and posture
The absolute state
Lotus
## Admin
No.6077
6079 6084 6085
>>6075
My vision for /mlpol/ is the same now as it was in the beginning; a community based around My Little Pony and politics, with maximum freedom to express creativity. I want as little moderation as possible, with moderation basically there to remove spam and raiders. I'd probably collapse all of the rules into three bullet points: Engage with the board in good faith (No raiding, no thread derailment); No cluttering up the board (No spam, no advertising, have some minimum quality); Don't post anything that will get our server terminated or result in an FBI warrant (self explanatory). I'd like there to be more posters, as many posters as possible. But really, whether someone choses to post or not isn't in my power.
Anonymous
No.6078
6081 6087
>>6076
>Gaslighting
Stop using that word if you don't know what it means. I've gotten really, really, really sick of your aimless shit spewing, because I can tell you have indeed allowed personal grievance (while some indeed founded) to get in the way of productive conversation, and even derailed unrelated threads to that end.
I am actually trying to have a discussion here, and I'd appreciate it if you didn't poison the fucking well with your cynical, obnoxious, counterproductive bullshit.

However
>>6073
>trying to exact revenge
Lotus could you freaking not further deteriorate this conversation by implying some hidden poster is acting in a strictly hostile / ulterior motive fashion based on information that only you gave access to? Not everything is 100% personal, believe it or not. Even if that suspicion is founded, it's beside the point, and all it's done is effectively made everyone paranoid. This is not supposed to be personal.
It literally doesn't matter who the opnion comes from, just the argument itself. In this threads there have been whiny egotistical assholes who only want to complain, and there have also been whiny egotistical assholes who have made very good points on said matters: there is definitely overlap between the two groups, and I can tell because this is a tiny community and some of us recognize each other by posting style (yeah, I see you, Anon who avatarfags with the same handful of pony pics), but not all of the time, which in this thread has led to pointless ad homenim and refusal to consider each other's arguments.

Now all 4-8 posters here who have something they're disgruntled about are going to have to freaking prove that their opinions are genuine and they're not sussus amogus unless they're posting with a mod ID. You basically just exacerbated the problem of posters in the thread being hostile to each other because they suspect people of being malignant, instead of considering what they have to say.

This thread is basically completely derailed at this point. I gave have a heart to retype the OP and start a new one.
Anonymous
No.6079
6081
>>6077
That's pretty similar to what I want as well.
I think if anything, there could just be some greater transparency, because the gap between what the mods know and what the userbase knows has only grown over the years.
While I don't think heavy moderation is important to /mlpol/, I do think it's preferable for the posters to be aware of what the mods are up to and how they make decisions. Whether that should be expressed through policy or through some other means is up for debate.
Lotus
## Admin
No.6081
6082 6085
>>6078
The issue of poster motivation is indeed relevant and important for two reasons. One, it gives a false impression of what user preferences are. People a person who do not care about what they claim to care about loudly accuses the staff and advocates for a position they are not invested in.

Second, the existence of bad faith calls into question the wisdom of changing the policy page. The main argument within staff against reforming the rule page into a specific set of rules is that such rules will be argued and interpreted by those in bad faith to use against the site. Another user in this thread has expressed the same opinion.

Beyond this, if a person does not want the thing they claim to want, then giving them that thing will not satisfy them. So if users say they are angry about x but you know the grief is personal, there is little reason to address x. Motivation is very much relevant, as the whole point of this thread is to measure user preferences. When people are dishonest about their preferences there is an issue.

>>6079
What exactly would constitute "greater transparency" to you?

Transparency, likewise, is an issue where the existence of bad faith actors is very much relevant.
Anonymous
No.6082
>>6081
You can't be certain that arguments are being made in bad faith, even if personal motivations are involved. Let arguments stand for themselves. We're not so retarded that we'd be convinced into completely destroying ourselves for nothing.
>used against the site
What kind of scenario are you even imagining? What kind of policy page would we actually agree to that could be "used against the site"? It's not like we're just going to collectively decide we need mandatory BBC threads on the front page.
>but you know the grief is personal, there is little reason to address x.
I disagree. Anyone has to be a at least a little bit pissed of to even bother saying something. Having personal troubles doesn't mean that their arguments are invalid. That's also unfair to good faith actors who may have coincidentally agreed with the one you considered to be bad faith only to have that argument discredited despite their own opinions. Every argument should be taken seriously if it's articulated correctly. We all have our own personal issues/motivations, but it's the argument that counts. A good argument stands alone.
>Greater transparency
For starters the staffs decision making process is very vague, almost cryptic. Sometimes it feels like the only way to know what the staff does it why it does it is to be staff yourself; I don't think that's a good thing. It's also rather inconvenient to speak directly with the staff, especially since Discord has proven itself to be unreliable.
Some Anon's have mentioned Tea with Atlas in this thread. Perhaps something similar could be rebooted in the future.
>Transparency, likewise, is an issue where the existence of bad faith actors is very much relevant.
If you're referring to the instance when the sexually confused gost tried to split our community by manufacturing disgust at gay porn and demanding it be censored, whilst using that to drive away artists and content creators, there's a case to be made for that. However, that doesn't mean we shouldn't be transparent about how we operate, since good faith actors shouldn't be shut out either.
That was, though, back in the time when /mlpol/ was so bottom-up that we held multiple stawpolls for every little decision and talked constantly about any potential change to or vision if the site. Maybe we could bring back some of that old energy and get anons more involved with the site.
Anonymous
No.6084
6085
shitposting.png
>>6077
>I'd probably collapse all of the rules into three bullet points
This!
Keep it bare simple and fuzzy.
If every poster is driven by the spirit of Friendship, there's nothing to be afraid.
I'm not naive and I'm know that the staff are humans and can turn into dicks, however, that's the reason why there is a poner at the top to put order when is needed. So, the ultimate law derives from him; as the hierarchy is already established.
It is not so hard to understand this and to end the controversy once and for all.
Anonymous
No.6085
6086
6177604.png
29088.gif
2190241.png
>>6077
>>6084
Fuzzy is fine for general guide lines that's basically what is done on a day to day.
For a community driven site that ambiguity without also clear lines of what to not cross and which are ment to always be crossed is a necessity. With only one or the other the spirit is lost or the means of which the true goal is obtained.
>So, the ultimate law derives from him; as the hierarchy is already established.
I'd recomend rules for rulers video. Also Jocko's decentralized command because that appears to be relevant as well. While the rules for rulers is apathetic it does give across the points being made and why that is not the entire story. In a grouo founded on friendship and politics knowing of such things is in my opinion vital.
The community that also includes staff has a voice to say about the goings on. The first people that is looked to in times of strife is each other and staff when the time is right. That said there is a time and place for saying everything is fine and should be the same without evidence is tiresome. Out right dismissal means the issue may be brought back repeatedly. On the case of being dismissed.
All of this is done by the good will and generosity by said people who are in keeping with the site.
The clearly defined aspiration to aspire toward is important.
Now, I will say no one is perfect. Pony demonstrates the wrongful error that can happen. Pony also shows some remedies and what could have been done to prevent it in the first place.

>One, it gives a false impression of what user preferences are. People a person who do not care about what they claim to care about loudly accuses the staff and advocates for a position they are not invested in.
Second, the existence of bad faith calls into question the wisdom of changing the policy page. The main argument within staff against reforming the rule page into a specific set of rules is that such rules will be argued and interpreted by those in bad faith to use against the site.

The same applies to fuzzy definitions. Because then it's all interpretation.
Friendship, ponies, and politics. Nobody has to agree fully with each other on most of the topics, but the point of existing is. Starting with the assumption of maliciousness closes off the necessity of understanding other points and reasons.
>>6073
Oh boy
>Community will never bow to assblasted members
I don't need to explain how that'll go wrong, but I will.
>Staff will take all community suggestions into account
>Staff will never bow to assblasted former staff members
Make sure those suggestions are fully taken into account with as unbaised as possible.
>No staff member shall use the information he obtains in his position on staff for personal gain, lulz, or to harass/humiliate a user or other staff members
This is a place for shitposting. Like a lot of shitposting.
>>6071
>A fuzzy policy page is imperative to avoid that.
Uhhhh just the opposite. The real problem is embodying the spirit of the law rather than the letter. Issue with that is clear confines is what make laws (and rules of anykind) something learnable. To also prevent frustration.
Otherwise we could sum up the policy page on two sentences.
<Users, don't be dickweeds.
<Staff, don't be asshats.
Easy and fuzzy.
The how and why is the issue at play that is what necessitates clarity and good will.

>>6081
>So if users say they are angry about x but you know the grief is personal, there is little reason to address x.
The only issue is if x is valid.
Even if it is personal and it's mere lashing out. The fact x is valid still means it's valid. No matter how much someone says it's fine and there isn't a problem.
Maybe I should just shut up as a newfag and leave oldfags to bicker how issues multiply.
Anonymous
No.6086
6092 6095
6rftVEg.png
>>6085
>For a community driven site that ambiguity without also clear lines of what to not cross and which are ment to always be crossed is a necessity.
It might be necessary only for newfags, but a simple mod's warning would make the trick easily.
>I'd recomend rules for rulers video.
That's fine, but I remember that /pol/ worked best when the tyrant turkroach was in charge, as soon as he was ousted from his own board, everything went awry.
A hierarchy is a must. If not, ask Celestia.
>The same applies to fuzzy definitions. Because then it's all interpretation.
Exactly, then the last arbiter is the board's owner, as it should be.
Anon, you are using rhetoric to stick a wedge into the staff's authority, if you accept their decisions, even if they are not of your liking, all this issue about a silly policy page will go away.
Anonymous
No.6087
>>6078
Uhm, you clearly dont understand the concept of gaslighting so your objection is comprehensible. Having said, gaslighting comes in many forms/contexts. The obvious one is where a person manipulates the other into questioning their memory, sanity, and mental stability. Another is where one person wilfully frames a testimony, description, or summary in such a way to imply to the nescient observer that the other person has questionable memory, sanity, or mental stability.
Its comparable to poisoning the well, except it tends to be rhetorical and conjectural. It's a very common tactic amongst lawyers, narcissists, and jews.
Anonymous
No.6088
6090 6094
rule.jpg
Fuzzy rules give leverage to mods against community subversion. Prevents things like shareblue and talmudry.

Demarcated rules limit the power of mods to influence the community. Prevents scruffening and hampers takeovers.
Anonymous
No.6089
6091
Wtf happened while I was asleep.
Anonymous
No.6090
>>6088
What kind of "community subversion" are you even expecting?
Anonymous
No.6091
6093
>>6089
Mods were so 'not' assblasted by my efforts that they made mention of it in the policy. Oh, and theres a a modified policy. Its true now
Anonymous
No.6092
>>6086
Didn't we establish at the beginning of this board that it's not stop-down hierarchy? We're a community site, and we should have community driven decisions.
Anonymous
No.6093
>>6091
>theres a a modified policy.
I guess modifying the rules is easier than it sounds...
Anonymous
No.6094
6096
>>6088
>Prevents scruffening
Scruffening is what happens when mods are allowed to rule with impunity with no community input.
>leverage to mods against community
Why do they need more leverage? They're already mods.
You've repeated this like three times now and you haven't explained what could actually happen as a result of it.