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Want real Christian Masculinity? Read the Wisdom of Sirach.
Anonymous
af4d3b5
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No.357117
357120 357121 357748
Ever read "The Wisdom of Sirach"? It's a very masculine book and it teaches young men directly on how they can be set to fight against wickedness. It is a very masculine book for Christians. And this book is hardly taught by Catholics. It is not included in the (((mainstream protestant bible))).

There are a lot of good quotes in the Wisdom of Sirach, such as...

"Do not despise hard work, especially farming and homesteading."

"Do not subject yourself to a foolish man, and do not show partiality to a ruler."

"Fight to the Death for the Truth, and the Lord God will fight for you."

"Do not be rash with your tongue and do not be sluggish and neglectful with your works."

"For the Lord of the Most High hates sinners and will render punishment on the ungodly."

"Do not let a day go by without doing something good."

"Do not repeat your sin, For you will not be unpunished even for one"

"With all your words, remember the time you will die, And you will never sin."
Anonymous
e3a1d50
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No.357120
>>357117
Got a link to the text? Seeing as you have read it, you must know some stuff about it. Who was it written by? Why was it not included in the Bible? Is it Apocryphal or is it Gnostic? Most texts were decided to be included in he Bible because of thousands of years ago they a council that looked over both text and sources to determine which were true. It takes more than a claim that it is God’s Word because anyone can write that, like you or me. God’s Word is consistent with both itself and true on its own.

I happen to be learning Greek, so as you provide this information, I’ll look for some manuscripts and see what it says. Seems more like a /ub/ topic by the way. Might consider putting it there in the future.
Anonymous
0488c9b
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No.357121
Screenshot_20230105_181252.png
sipping.png
>>357117
>batpone
>no hooves
>blasphemous nun
>heeb source
I am under the impression that we are being trolled.
Anonymous
e3a1d50
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No.357122
357884
Beginning my research with Wikipedia. Not the best source, but helps one get started. Apparently this is a book written in Hebrew and translated into the Greek during the Septuagint project, turning a lot of Jewish text into Greek, which is how the canon of Scripture was passed to the Council of Nicaea. However, the Septuagint only translated a portion of the text. This is a red flag in it being canonical. God’s Word has survived the test of time with each book having a beginning middle and end with a solid logical through-line. Though certain sections are debated to be added in post, we don’t have any portions that were held as canon today.

Next, the text’s origin apparently was used before in Hebrew. “Although excluded from the Jewish canon, Sirach was read and quoted as authoritative from the beginning of the rabbinic period. There are numerous citations to Sirach in the Talmud and works of rabbinic literature (as "ספר בן סירא", e.g., Hagigah 13a, Niddah 16b; Ber. 11b)”. So, the Rabbis of the period it was created, our best guess being around 200 BC, used this alongside the Talmud. Another red flag. This means this book was likely used in their traditions and oral law that Jesus fought against. However, there is still hope because it seems it was dropped after some unspecified time. Perhaps it wasn’t subversive enough or contradicted what they wanted to adopt into the faith going forward.

There is additional evidence towards a canon status, in that Jesus might have quotes from it. From Sirach 51:34 “ And submit your neck to the yoke, and let your soul receive discipline: for she is near at hand to be found.” and Matthew 11:29 “Take my yoke upon you, and learn of me; for I am meek and lowly in heart: and ye shall find rest unto your souls.” Along with: Matthew 6:12 "And forgive us our debts, as we forgive our debtors" and Sirach 28:2 “Forgive your neighbor a wrong, and then, when you petition, your sins will be pardoned."

I am not convinced at these being referrals to canon though. Te first apparent quote seems to be that of contrast. Remember the times Jesus said you have heard it said and then made a contrast with the statements of the day? This seems to be another as the yoke Jesus is describing is himself and the burden is light, compared with Sirach saying to be disciplined by the yoke. And the other reference is found throughout other Biblical texts, as forgiveness of sin and debt is a central theme. These are what Wikipedia describes as connections. I will see about more myself once I get a hold of any translations and manuscripts I can. Seeing as there is a Greek translation by the Septuagint people, I can be confident we will get good translations. Those were done excellently back in that period, forming the basis of a lot of understanding we have about how Greek and Hebrew operate as language and how translations were done precisely.

Overall, I don’t see any evidence this was canon. I don’t know if there is any evidence it is harmful yet, but I will see what I can find. Just because a text isn’t canon doesn’t mean you have to throw it out and take nothing from it, but it doesn’t hold authority in line with the other books that have stood the test of time as what God has for us to read and follow. If Sirach says something against what Paul wrote for us, what John, what Moses, or Ezekiel, then it isn’t going to override it or make me question it for a moment, because it was not important enough to the people to preserve, present for canonization, and confirmed by people that studied these things for years that we might still hold the truth centuries on.
Anonymous
e3a1d50
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No.357125
I see it is also Apocryphal, meaning it was only canonized around 1546. So no one that was present in the original canonization of the Bible in the council of Nicaea touched it despite having a translation in the Greek by the Septuagint. Another important part to consider.
Anonymous
af4d3b5
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No.357135
The Wisdom of Sirach is really Jewish?
But it seems based. Does it contain any pieces of propaganda I missed?
Anonymous
2e2e9c1
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No.357748
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>>357117
>Masculinity
Anonymous
89e1532
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No.357884
I cannot do justice to The Wisdom of Sirach, but as I read it for the first time a couple months ago, I figured I should write a little about it here.
It's a work of ancient near eastern wisdom literature, the largest one known to survive, and covers an impressive breadth of topics. For example, the page I have open before me contains advice on child discipline, a paragraph about the importance of physical fitness, repeated warnings about the dangers of being fixated on wealth and (((profit))), advice on eating etiquette for different situations, and so on. It also contains this paragraph:
>Do not give yourself over to sorrow,
>And do not distress yourself deliberately.
>Gladness of the heart is the life of man,
>And rejoicing by a man lengthens his life.
>Love your soul and comfort your heart,
>And put sorrow far away from you;
>For sorrow has destroyed many,
>And there is no profit in it.
>Envy and anger will shorten your days,
>And worry will bring premature old age.
>A man with a good and cheerful heart
>Will pay attention to the food he eats.
I'm not sure I can completely convey this to you who haven't read it, but something about the entire book really clicked for me when I read this. It is a book full of advice and sayings on all kinds of mundane and specific situations, things many people don't really think about (the next page recommends that you don't interrupt the music at a party to make a speech, for example). Through all this, it tries to convey how our actions in the little and mundane things of life manifest higher things and affect our spiritual state, how so many things in our lives spill over into each other and affect things we wouldn't think of, and how a lot of small things can manifest something greater together. Let's look at that last sentence again:
>A man with a good and cheerful heart
>Will pay attention to the food he eats.
This could be the screed of an obsessive healthfag who tries a bunch of things in disconnection to improve "his health," as though some magic food or ingredient will make him well, or it could that of a wise man who understands how interconnected his life is and lives with care. There is a world of difference between the two, and it is Sirach's prayer that the reader may achieve the latter.

>>357122
>However, there is still hope because it seems it was dropped after some unspecified time. Perhaps it wasn’t subversive enough or contradicted what they wanted to adopt into the faith going forward.
From what I understand, the coming of Jesus led to the Jews dropping a lot of religious ideas and literature which they felt was too Christian. They had some awareness of there being multiple persons within the Godhead, for example, and pretty much abandoned the Book of Enoch entirely because portions of it were seen as too prophetic of Christianity. People really, really underestimate how much rabbinical Judaism reinvented itself out of sheer spite for Jesus.
>From Sirach 51:34 “ And submit your neck to the yoke, and let your soul receive discipline: for she is near at hand to be found.” and Matthew 11:29 “Take my yoke upon you, and learn of me; for I am meek and lowly in heart: and ye shall find rest unto your souls.”
>I am not convinced at these being referrals to canon though. Te first apparent quote seems to be that of contrast. Remember the times Jesus said you have heard it said and then made a contrast with the statements of the day? This seems to be another as the yoke Jesus is describing is himself and the burden is light, compared with Sirach saying to be disciplined by the yoke.
I can understand how it may look like a contrast, but the verse immediately following Sirach 51:34 (51:26 in the KJV and Orthodox Study Bible) greatly clarifies this:
>See with your own eyes that I labored little,
>But found much rest for myself.
There is a burden to true wisdom, yes, but it is less than the burden of a life without it. Sirach is quite distant from the proto-talmudic autism Jesus strove against and much closer to the wisdom found in Proverbs, if that makes any sense: it is a collection of sayings and advice that linger in the mind and inform one's actions rather than being a pedantic tome of regulations.