Although without a doubt many people have tried playing Dungeons and Dragons in a MLP setting, afaik there is no complete rulebook or conversion set that allows for an immersive experience (this doesn't count: https://www.dandwiki.com/wiki/Little_Pony_(5e_Race)). We've had some longstanding campaigns on /vx/ so why don't we build a reference as a community project? It doesn't necessarily have to be set in stone but it would better establish campaigns in rules of logic. It's impossible to have OOC discussion at length in a campaign so let's do it here.
Complete 3.5 rulebook: http://choisey.free.fr/3.5/Core/Indexed%20Player%20Handbook%20v3.5.pdf
Handy 3.5 reference site: http://www.d20srd.org/index.htm
A more comprehensive reference site: https://www.d20pfsrd.com/
Homebrew content: https://www.dandwiki.com/wiki/Main_Page
"Monstrous Races" – useful if you have animals and monsters as sapient creatures like in MLP; unfortunately I don't have the book: https://www.dmsguild.com/product/230312/Monstrous-Races
What needs improving? Pretty much everything, but highest priority would be playable races and monsters, as canonically MLP is completely different from DnD in terms of sapient creatures and very different when it comes to other creatures. Amazingly entire campaigns have been played without precise knowledge of creatures' strengths and weaknesses, but setting the definitions straight will help nuance and variety.
Campaigns set outside the typical high fantasy realm of DnD, like our very own Occupied Equestria, present further uncertainty. Most guns (submachine guns were settled fairly recently, though I have no idea about LMGs/MMGs/HMGs) have already been worked out but, given it's a WW2 setting, how will vehicles function in combat? Can bits be expected to buy the same things as the recommended valuation of GP? These and any other gameplay questions can be discussed and answered here.
/vx/ - Videogames and Paranormal
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>>130793
If "Endless Study" is what I think it is, it probably means that the character only gains half as much XP as a regular character, in exchange for having a class that's outright stronger than any other in the game.
Tbh, I don't really like the idea. Sounds more like a 2e thing, since they did away with variable XP progressions as 3.0 was released. I'd prefer to just play a regular tier 1 class (Wizard, Cleric, Druid, Artificer, Archivist, Erudite) and just level up normally like any other character.
If "Endless Study" is what I think it is, it probably means that the character only gains half as much XP as a regular character, in exchange for having a class that's outright stronger than any other in the game.
Tbh, I don't really like the idea. Sounds more like a 2e thing, since they did away with variable XP progressions as 3.0 was released. I'd prefer to just play a regular tier 1 class (Wizard, Cleric, Druid, Artificer, Archivist, Erudite) and just level up normally like any other character.
To get back to the old topic, I think the main priority of making a hybrid milieu is to standardize the wealth system.
D&D uses cold pieces as it's standard. Loot, plunder, WBL, item creation costs, spell component costs, and more are all dependent on the gold piece standard. It's so ingrained into d&d that it's virtually impossible to run a game smoothly without paying at least partial attention to it. WBL is practically synonymous with character power/capability; in earlier editions, XP and wealth were the same thing, since D&D is at its core a game about treasure-hunting. Undergeared PCs will struggle to get through dungeons, especially martial ones who only have a narrow scope of attack options.
https://dnd-wiki.org/wiki/SRD:Wealth_and_Money
50 gp is one pound of gold.
D20 modern uses a different system entirely. It employs wealth checks and purchase DCs:
http://dmreference.com/MRD/Basics/Wealth.htm
In d20 modern, individual prices of certain things aren't always listed. PCs also regain their wealth levels much more quickly using their profession skill. It doesn't necessarily translate into d&d, but it's a start.
Now, the real question is, how does your modern economy work? The d&d gold standard is based on medieval fantasy; it doesn't necessarily translate into modern economics, but the ramifications of magical commodities on a modern market are too great to list in one post.
Imo, the aim shouldn't be to be "realistic", but to aim for what's fair to PCs and what gives them the chance to have adequate access to both fantasy and modern resources. If it leads to the game being Monty Hall'd, so be it, imo. Player characters are supposed to be rich.
D&D uses cold pieces as it's standard. Loot, plunder, WBL, item creation costs, spell component costs, and more are all dependent on the gold piece standard. It's so ingrained into d&d that it's virtually impossible to run a game smoothly without paying at least partial attention to it. WBL is practically synonymous with character power/capability; in earlier editions, XP and wealth were the same thing, since D&D is at its core a game about treasure-hunting. Undergeared PCs will struggle to get through dungeons, especially martial ones who only have a narrow scope of attack options.
https://dnd-wiki.org/wiki/SRD:Wealth_and_Money
50 gp is one pound of gold.
D20 modern uses a different system entirely. It employs wealth checks and purchase DCs:
http://dmreference.com/MRD/Basics/Wealth.htm
In d20 modern, individual prices of certain things aren't always listed. PCs also regain their wealth levels much more quickly using their profession skill. It doesn't necessarily translate into d&d, but it's a start.
Now, the real question is, how does your modern economy work? The d&d gold standard is based on medieval fantasy; it doesn't necessarily translate into modern economics, but the ramifications of magical commodities on a modern market are too great to list in one post.
Imo, the aim shouldn't be to be "realistic", but to aim for what's fair to PCs and what gives them the chance to have adequate access to both fantasy and modern resources. If it leads to the game being Monty Hall'd, so be it, imo. Player characters are supposed to be rich.
>>130801
I'll also note that the d20 modern wealth system isn't exactly balanced... You can start D20 Modern with a wealth bonus of 3 to 13 depending on rolls and choices. That is a huge difference. It's also got a lot of other problems, and the fact that money itself isn't explicitly tracked makes the Wealth Level system downright incompatible with any edition of d&d, as the gold standard is necessary for so many metamechanics.
3.5e is actually decently balanced in terms of items, imo. Not because of the economy, but because the WBL system ensures a shred of consistency, something that you don't have in 5e. I've there's still plenty to complain about, but I find it's actually better than other similar games, imo. My only real complaint, after trying and reading about other systems, is how incredibly item-dependent PCs are. An undergeared Fighter barely stands a chance in a challenging dungeon, because is power is going to be almost directly proportionate to how how hes managing his equipment, perhaps just as much so as his feats. It's for that reason why it's important to keep track of WBL.
I'll also note that the d20 modern wealth system isn't exactly balanced... You can start D20 Modern with a wealth bonus of 3 to 13 depending on rolls and choices. That is a huge difference. It's also got a lot of other problems, and the fact that money itself isn't explicitly tracked makes the Wealth Level system downright incompatible with any edition of d&d, as the gold standard is necessary for so many metamechanics.
3.5e is actually decently balanced in terms of items, imo. Not because of the economy, but because the WBL system ensures a shred of consistency, something that you don't have in 5e. I've there's still plenty to complain about, but I find it's actually better than other similar games, imo. My only real complaint, after trying and reading about other systems, is how incredibly item-dependent PCs are. An undergeared Fighter barely stands a chance in a challenging dungeon, because is power is going to be almost directly proportionate to how how hes managing his equipment, perhaps just as much so as his feats. It's for that reason why it's important to keep track of WBL.
>>127611
OP, I gotta ask: What exactly is your goal in this thread?
Like, are you looking for general ideas concerning tabletop games? Are you looking for specific ideas or criticisms on how to improve an existing game? Are you just trying to figure out how RPGs works? Is this just a general thread for meta?I've posted a lot here, but I'm getting the feeling like I haven't really addressed what you were looking for...
I'm going to just go down the list for things mentioned in your OP:
>highest priority would be playable races and monsters
The highest priority for homebrew ponies would be making sure they're all of the same relative power level with eachother. I posted my ideas for Earth ponies; I'll post my ideas for unicorns if anybody asks.
>Amazingly entire campaigns have been played without precise knowledge of creatures' strengths and weaknesses, but setting the definitions straight will help nuance and variety.
I don't think that's accurrate, tbh. We've only had a couple "campaigns" here, and by the looks of it most of the GMs involved had an idea of player stats. This is the kind of thing you decide before a game, and maybe retroactively fix if it's bad.
>Campaigns set outside the typical high fantasy realm of DnD
I've said it before, and I'll say it again. It's probably more work than it's worth to try and hombrew all this stuff. D&D was made for medieval/classical fantasy, not modern warfare. You'll probably have a better time playing Shadowrun or something else than doing all that work to combine two concepts.
>present further uncertainty
In more ways than you'd think.
>Most guns
The 3.5e DMG says to refer to D20 modern for rules and stats concerning firearms. The stats there are usable.
>vehicles function in combat?
Also in D20 Modern, but the bigger concern is how your characters will be able to use them, particularly if they'll be able to use their D&D abilities aboard a vehicle, and if the presence of said vehicles will impact the dungeoneering experience.
The elemental Vessels in Eberron are also worth looking at.
>given it's a WW2 setting
Are you playing d&d, or are you paying a wWII sim? It's going to be a bit of extra effort to make "Dungeons And Dragons" look as expected in WWII level warfare is the focus of the adventures, especially since most PC classes do not equip PCs will the skills and abilities for such; unless of course your PCs built for that in particular.
>Can bits be expected to buy the same things as the recommended valuation of GP?
50 gp is a pound of gold. A bit is probably closer to a copper at most, a lead bead at least. What you call the currency really doesn't matter, but imo it's much easier to simply use gold, as gold/silver/platinum pieces, as precious metals can't be created/fabricated as easily.
>playable races and monsters
There are 5 monster manuals in 3.5e, and dozens of templates. Finding monsters is a non-issue. To reinvent human-shaped monsters, just make the quadrupedal, increase their movement speed, possibly swap out their natural weapons, and apply the Fingerless rules I posted before.
as for playable races, focus on giving them equal abilities. At-Will Flight on pegasi is a lot, especially if you intend to make ranged combat stronger. Make sure that Earth ponies and Unicorns get equally-valuable abilities, and make sure said abilities are specifically defined before players make their characters.
>why don't we build a reference as a community project?
There are a lot websites dedicated to this. you should check them out.
>What needs improving?
No comment on this for now.
>unfortunately I don't have the book
You don't need the books, just know where to find the PDFs online. I already told you about TheTrove.
>We've had some longstanding campaigns on /vx/
Ngl, I've participated in some of those games, but over the years I've come to the conclusion that chansites might not actually be a very good medium for good tabletop games, just imo... I'd recommend trying out other mediums; online d&d can be fun if it's organized properly.
>there is no complete rulebook or conversion set that allows for an immersive experience
Well, Ponyfinder technically counts as "Complete" if you're looking for a place to start. I don't really like it though (then again i prefer 3.5e).
Also, your OP includes links from 5e, 3.5e, and pathfinder. If you want clear gameplay, you're going to have to be clear about what system you're using.
OP, I gotta ask: What exactly is your goal in this thread?
Like, are you looking for general ideas concerning tabletop games? Are you looking for specific ideas or criticisms on how to improve an existing game? Are you just trying to figure out how RPGs works? Is this just a general thread for meta?I've posted a lot here, but I'm getting the feeling like I haven't really addressed what you were looking for...
I'm going to just go down the list for things mentioned in your OP:
>highest priority would be playable races and monsters
The highest priority for homebrew ponies would be making sure they're all of the same relative power level with eachother. I posted my ideas for Earth ponies; I'll post my ideas for unicorns if anybody asks.
>Amazingly entire campaigns have been played without precise knowledge of creatures' strengths and weaknesses, but setting the definitions straight will help nuance and variety.
I don't think that's accurrate, tbh. We've only had a couple "campaigns" here, and by the looks of it most of the GMs involved had an idea of player stats. This is the kind of thing you decide before a game, and maybe retroactively fix if it's bad.
>Campaigns set outside the typical high fantasy realm of DnD
I've said it before, and I'll say it again. It's probably more work than it's worth to try and hombrew all this stuff. D&D was made for medieval/classical fantasy, not modern warfare. You'll probably have a better time playing Shadowrun or something else than doing all that work to combine two concepts.
>present further uncertainty
In more ways than you'd think.
>Most guns
The 3.5e DMG says to refer to D20 modern for rules and stats concerning firearms. The stats there are usable.
>vehicles function in combat?
Also in D20 Modern, but the bigger concern is how your characters will be able to use them, particularly if they'll be able to use their D&D abilities aboard a vehicle, and if the presence of said vehicles will impact the dungeoneering experience.
The elemental Vessels in Eberron are also worth looking at.
>given it's a WW2 setting
Are you playing d&d, or are you paying a wWII sim? It's going to be a bit of extra effort to make "Dungeons And Dragons" look as expected in WWII level warfare is the focus of the adventures, especially since most PC classes do not equip PCs will the skills and abilities for such; unless of course your PCs built for that in particular.
>Can bits be expected to buy the same things as the recommended valuation of GP?
50 gp is a pound of gold. A bit is probably closer to a copper at most, a lead bead at least. What you call the currency really doesn't matter, but imo it's much easier to simply use gold, as gold/silver/platinum pieces, as precious metals can't be created/fabricated as easily.
>playable races and monsters
There are 5 monster manuals in 3.5e, and dozens of templates. Finding monsters is a non-issue. To reinvent human-shaped monsters, just make the quadrupedal, increase their movement speed, possibly swap out their natural weapons, and apply the Fingerless rules I posted before.
as for playable races, focus on giving them equal abilities. At-Will Flight on pegasi is a lot, especially if you intend to make ranged combat stronger. Make sure that Earth ponies and Unicorns get equally-valuable abilities, and make sure said abilities are specifically defined before players make their characters.
>why don't we build a reference as a community project?
There are a lot websites dedicated to this. you should check them out.
>What needs improving?
No comment on this for now.
>unfortunately I don't have the book
You don't need the books, just know where to find the PDFs online. I already told you about TheTrove.
>We've had some longstanding campaigns on /vx/
Ngl, I've participated in some of those games, but over the years I've come to the conclusion that chansites might not actually be a very good medium for good tabletop games, just imo... I'd recommend trying out other mediums; online d&d can be fun if it's organized properly.
>there is no complete rulebook or conversion set that allows for an immersive experience
Well, Ponyfinder technically counts as "Complete" if you're looking for a place to start. I don't really like it though (then again i prefer 3.5e).
Also, your OP includes links from 5e, 3.5e, and pathfinder. If you want clear gameplay, you're going to have to be clear about what system you're using.
>>127612
>A big problem for MLP in DnD is that there are a lot more potential playable races than in DnD making balance a very complex affair.
There are hundreds of races in d&d. In comparison, there are incredibly few races in an MLP game. That's why it's important to make sure that the MLP races you do stat are good.
>earth ponies, pegasi, and unicorns look a little mundane or even underpowered compared to other races
The opposite seems true to me, particularly with pegasi. Very few races fly at-will from level 1. Earth ponies and unicorns are implied to have abilities equally valuable to flight.
>but I had to be creative to give niches to the other creatures.
No you don't. There'd be nothing wrong with making ponies statistically superior, because they're the race you want players to use. Most players who sign up for pony games are going to want to play ponies, because that's the point.
>>127613
>As far as game mechanics go, 5e might be a more suitable platform for pony-related gaming.
I disagree. 3.5e has far more support for these sorts of questions than 5e. The supplements are what makes it versatile and adaptable.
5e only seems better for homebrew because the lack of existing rules simply forces the DM to make up rules as he goes. It doesn't actually make hombrew any easier.
>A big problem for MLP in DnD is that there are a lot more potential playable races than in DnD making balance a very complex affair.
There are hundreds of races in d&d. In comparison, there are incredibly few races in an MLP game. That's why it's important to make sure that the MLP races you do stat are good.
>earth ponies, pegasi, and unicorns look a little mundane or even underpowered compared to other races
The opposite seems true to me, particularly with pegasi. Very few races fly at-will from level 1. Earth ponies and unicorns are implied to have abilities equally valuable to flight.
>but I had to be creative to give niches to the other creatures.
No you don't. There'd be nothing wrong with making ponies statistically superior, because they're the race you want players to use. Most players who sign up for pony games are going to want to play ponies, because that's the point.
>>127613
>As far as game mechanics go, 5e might be a more suitable platform for pony-related gaming.
I disagree. 3.5e has far more support for these sorts of questions than 5e. The supplements are what makes it versatile and adaptable.
5e only seems better for homebrew because the lack of existing rules simply forces the DM to make up rules as he goes. It doesn't actually make hombrew any easier.
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After checking Roll20 and various discords, it's come to my knowledge that there are very few pony groups that use 3.5e Rules; most of them use Pathfinder or 5e, running off of the Ponyfinder book. I guess it's to be expected, since Pathfinder accommodates ponies a bit better (Pathfinder races are generally stronger than 3.5e races), and since they make Flight a skill-based check lvl 1 flying creatures aren't nearly as imbalanced.
Still, it's sad PF will never be 100% compatible with my beloved 3.5e Splats. Sure, they fit, but they'll never be "official"...
I think I'll give up on writing a +2 LA 3.5e unicorn. If I ever do a 3.5e pony game, I'll just use the Ponyfinder stats. The setting is cringe (imo), but the racial meta is decently usable.
Still, it's sad PF will never be 100% compatible with my beloved 3.5e Splats. Sure, they fit, but they'll never be "official"...
I think I'll give up on writing a +2 LA 3.5e unicorn. If I ever do a 3.5e pony game, I'll just use the Ponyfinder stats. The setting is cringe (imo), but the racial meta is decently usable.
>>131349
Eh, it's not really anything to be that sad about, it's just that overthinking elf games has kind of been my only pastime in recent months due to the kung flu.
After reading a bit more into ponyfinder groups, I think the system they use is worth more than I initially gave it credit for. I think I'd like to try it myself some time soon. Would be a great way to get into pathfinder.
Eh, it's not really anything to be that sad about, it's just that overthinking elf games has kind of been my only pastime in recent months due to the kung flu.
After reading a bit more into ponyfinder groups, I think the system they use is worth more than I initially gave it credit for. I think I'd like to try it myself some time soon. Would be a great way to get into pathfinder.
I've recently had an idea of appropriating the Elements Of Harmony as Sovereign Archetypes (Eberron) or Elemental Spheres (Dark Sun) that Clerics could tap into. Each Element could essentially be it's own archetype, and grant four to six domains to a Cleric of that archetype.
It could be something like:
Honesty:
>Inquisition, Truth, Family, Humility
Kindness:
>Healing, Good, Patience,
Loyalty:
>Law, Courage, Community, Competition, Protection
Generosity:
>Generosity, Charity, Wealth, Nobility
Laughter:
>Hope, Pleasure, Joy, Courage, Trickery, Emotion
Magic:
>Magic, Spell, Knowledge, Planning, Destiny, Mysticism
Do these ideas look like they're worth exploring? I feel like I'd use something like this if I wanted to use a homebrew pony setting.
If it wasn't obvious, I didn't include any evil-leaning domains here, or a lot of the more popular domains for Clerics. The Elements of Harmony are presented as forces of Good and opposition to chaos, although an antithetical list of "Dark Elements" could be created for Evil Clerics and worshipers.
I would consider the elemental sovereigns to be flavor text for ideal Clerics, not a complete list. The Sovereign Archetypes of Eberron were only a small fraction of the ways in which Clerics could receive power in Eberron, coming in part as a supplement to the various gods of the setting who may or may not exist (it's ambiguous what gods exist or if they do at all in Eberron; but at the same time there's a lot more "ideal Clerics"; the setting is unique in that regard). Limiting Clerics to only a handful of domains due to the narrow nature of an Equestrian wouldn't really be fair to Cleric players, so Sovereign Archetypes could help fill that gap.
I feel like it's actually pretty important for Clerics to have pantheons to work with in terms of worldbuilding, because they're kind of boring without flavor text. I, personally, find religion to be one of the most important factors in character creation even for non-divine characters. A character's religion is likely to effect their alignment, motivations, mechanical powers, enemies, allies, outlook on the world, and even their afterlife. Religion might even serve as a character's highest moral authority, since "God told me to do it" is often a better way to play than "It's just what my character would do".
The Elements Of Harmony would be a poor substitute for gods in terms of worship and character development, but they could at least give Clerics something to work with; perhaps they could even give roleplaying guides to nonclerics if they're given their own church affiliation ranking systems.
It could be something like:
Honesty:
>Inquisition, Truth, Family, Humility
Kindness:
>Healing, Good, Patience,
Loyalty:
>Law, Courage, Community, Competition, Protection
Generosity:
>Generosity, Charity, Wealth, Nobility
Laughter:
>Hope, Pleasure, Joy, Courage, Trickery, Emotion
Magic:
>Magic, Spell, Knowledge, Planning, Destiny, Mysticism
Do these ideas look like they're worth exploring? I feel like I'd use something like this if I wanted to use a homebrew pony setting.
If it wasn't obvious, I didn't include any evil-leaning domains here, or a lot of the more popular domains for Clerics. The Elements of Harmony are presented as forces of Good and opposition to chaos, although an antithetical list of "Dark Elements" could be created for Evil Clerics and worshipers.
I would consider the elemental sovereigns to be flavor text for ideal Clerics, not a complete list. The Sovereign Archetypes of Eberron were only a small fraction of the ways in which Clerics could receive power in Eberron, coming in part as a supplement to the various gods of the setting who may or may not exist (it's ambiguous what gods exist or if they do at all in Eberron; but at the same time there's a lot more "ideal Clerics"; the setting is unique in that regard). Limiting Clerics to only a handful of domains due to the narrow nature of an Equestrian wouldn't really be fair to Cleric players, so Sovereign Archetypes could help fill that gap.
I feel like it's actually pretty important for Clerics to have pantheons to work with in terms of worldbuilding, because they're kind of boring without flavor text. I, personally, find religion to be one of the most important factors in character creation even for non-divine characters. A character's religion is likely to effect their alignment, motivations, mechanical powers, enemies, allies, outlook on the world, and even their afterlife. Religion might even serve as a character's highest moral authority, since "God told me to do it" is often a better way to play than "It's just what my character would do".
The Elements Of Harmony would be a poor substitute for gods in terms of worship and character development, but they could at least give Clerics something to work with; perhaps they could even give roleplaying guides to nonclerics if they're given their own church affiliation ranking systems.
I've been reading the villain design handbook from KoK.
https://thetrove.net/Books/Hackmaster/Kingdoms%20of%20Kalamar/Sourcebooks/D&D%203.5e/%5BK&C1025%5D%20Kingdoms%20of%20Kalamar%20-%20Villain%20Design%20Handbook%20v3.5.pdf
I used to have a pretty bad opinion on kingdoms of Kalamar, but it has some okay ideas now that I look at it. Probably worth reading for those with spare time.
https://thetrove.net/Books/Hackmaster/Kingdoms%20of%20Kalamar/Sourcebooks/D&D%203.5e/
https://thetrove.net/Books/Hackmaster/Kingdoms%20of%20Kalamar/Sourcebooks/D&D%203.5e/%5BK&C1025%5D%20Kingdoms%20of%20Kalamar%20-%20Villain%20Design%20Handbook%20v3.5.pdf
I used to have a pretty bad opinion on kingdoms of Kalamar, but it has some okay ideas now that I look at it. Probably worth reading for those with spare time.
https://thetrove.net/Books/Hackmaster/Kingdoms%20of%20Kalamar/Sourcebooks/D&D%203.5e/
Someone shared Tactics of Everglow with me today, so I figured I'd share it.
https://drive.google.com/file/d/1IxF5mxSobK_ws-4Clto41_HwK6zpCo3l/view?usp=sharing
Has stats for Kirin in PF and 5e, although it was clearly written before season 8.
https://drive.google.com/file/d/1IxF5mxSobK_ws-4Clto41_HwK6zpCo3l/view?usp=sharing
Has stats for Kirin in PF and 5e, although it was clearly written before season 8.
It has come to my knowledge that most of the links I posted here died with the trove. Damn shame.
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