As a small community we have problems with anonymity as it is, I can see which anons are which much more easily because of it. Am I suggesting removing individual request flags? Maybe, though there are other ways to fix this problem that hurts the core of a chan, that is anonymity. I'd say the other easy options are doing what /pol/ does, that is allows anons to select their flag before posting, that way any anon can use the vril flag whenever he feels like it. This has its own set of problems though, however I'd say if we don't address this problem we'll likely continue having problems with users discounting or liking what one anon has to say over another just based on previous posts, something that we all subconsciously will do if we don't allow ourselves to be anons in every way that we possibly can.
Selectable ideology flags would make identifying individuals on a slow board even easier not harder. It is just automated individual flags like some have now.
I don't think your plan solves your concern.
I am not against the idea, but the efforts of the programmers would seem to achieve little of value.
Also the concept of flags is to partially identify people, an example being the common response to Canadian flags. A True anon board has no flags. Logic suggests then that your hearts desire should be no flags.
I am partially in agreement with this, as anonymity is the very point of 4Chan and flags are merely an aesthetic to reinforce our identity. However, I will dissent on three grounds:
1) Identity can be determined easily on a small board without flags. Individuals have distinctive ways of communicating, and while some are quite similar, over time there are discernible patterns that a sufficiently dedicated (or autistic) reader can detect. For example, even if my Stars and Bars were taken away I would still be known as "that pretentious AnCap who never swears."
2) The issue exists only because of numbers. If we had a userbase that more closely approached that of 4Chan, we wouldn't be discussing this. Yet because we are so small we can be differentiated anyway, as I point out in #1. And that brings me to my last point:
3) It's ultimately unnecessary. Seriously, how much bullying and harassment goes on here? The whole Starlight Glimmer drama is what spurred this but at most it derailed a couple of threads. That's a couple too many threads, of course, but especially with mod intervention we're not tearing at each others' throats. We pride ourselves on being a cut above 4Chins as our more tight-knit community tends to be better educated, more self-aware, and generally civilized. We're also very particular on whom we invite to our board. We're not saints of course, but when tensions flare we have a competent and fair mod team to handle it. This is unlikely to change unless if we get betrayed on the scale of Moot replacing the 4Chins mods.
>>3643 >Selectable ideology flags would make identifying individuals on a slow board even easier not harder. Bullshit if I could chose to post under the vrilflag for one post and the Aryanne brotherhood under another and then under the Equastria flag in my third post it would make the likelihood that one poster had a certain flag to themselves extremely unlikely. But as is now where you have to commit to a flag till the mod can change it back makes it so your basically namefagging. >Logic suggests then that your hearts desire should be no flags. This is true at least not till we have a large enough number of posters, though I know I'm in the extreme minority on this so I'm willing to compromise. However this is a problem none the less.
>>3646 >For example, even if my Stars and Bars were taken away I would still be known as "that pretentious AnCap who never swears." Honestly I would have never know it was you if it wasn't for you again making indication to your flag. >The issue exists only because of numbers. Likely true although that problem in itself isn't something we'll likely fix anytime soon. If anything we'll have to wait it out and in the meantime I'd say this temporary measure on aiding our community in accepting ideas rather then the authority of what anons have to say based on previous posts is best.
Take for instance vril. When I was first constructing my post I had something very passive and nice towards him because I'm inherently bias towards him due to his high quality posts keep them up btw. However I caught myself, and said "Am I being nicer to him then I would be to any other anon?" And the answer is yes. I'll call anons out on their bullshit but be nice to tripfags/namefags normally because their much more likely to take things personally due to them having an identity because of their indicator. This is interfering with posting and in all honesty should be fixed in some way.
>Seriously, how much bullying and harassment goes on here? Don't see how that relates to this. I hope it's not interpenetrated as me hating flagfags. I don't. I just find myself bias towards them myself and notice that other anons have been treating them differently then anons we have here. I don't know if my solutions are reasonable but I know we have a problem with this at the moment due to our low traffic and hoped this would raise awareness to this problem and cause a dialogue to come up. But I fear that flag-fags might have imprinted a bit of their flags into their identity which is why you might see this as drama while I, a non flagfag don't. I hope you both at least reflect on this possibility while you consider ways to fix this.
Also challenge try to name me based on my posting style. I generally want to see if you can.
>>3641 When ideology flags were first proposed and added, I protested, because I thought they would lead to identities. The (then) Admin disagreed, which seemed weird to me, because he was always absolutely obsessed with anonimity. But flags have since become a standard thing, and I am not sure it could really be taken away without being missed. I do think that Nationality flags do basically the same thing, because there are many people are are the only posters from their country, and so are recognizable.
At the very least, I think it's important that we're able to deviate from the geoip database; A catalan should be allowed to post under the catalan flag. At the same time, I wouldn't want a catalan to post using a venetian flag unless they're legitimately venetian diaspora. A german should also be able to request a greater-germany/reich's flag. I think this is very important culturally.
Others have spoken of anonymity, it is all so and worse if you're not from the united states, but that doesn't mean that ideology flags are suddenly great.
However, allowing some flags and others not requires the state, or rather the mods, to wield this power and I think neither they nor the users want the state to meddle in that business. The current situation, although not without its drawbacks, I find decent.
I do believe I have suggested this in another thread already, but I would vouch to turn off the flags for a week for testing purposes and see how the community stomachs it. The increasingly smaller poster pool combined with the overall slow flow of topics on the mainboard create an environment in discussion that is not unlike a Mandatory tripfag circlejerk. This and the current way to get (and keep) a custom flag at the moment is ineffective.
mlpol.net is mlpol.net, mlpol.net is not a chan and is not restricted by the rules of 4chan and earlier websites. It's perfectly fine for it to develop its own culture without even needing anonymity.
You act as though pseudo-anonymity is a bad thing. Everyone has tripcodes? Not an issue, builds better communities and gives high quality contributors a name for themselves and allows them to gain respect, further encouraging quality contributions. Bad users are shunned with the bad posts they make and gain an ill reputation, and are eventually removed by moderators when their post become low quality enough.
Anonymity is great, and that's the wonderful feature of this board. You can choose to post with a name, or without a name. At the end of the day it does not matter which you choose, you common sense to decide when to use one and when dropping one is just as appropriate.
>>3694 >mlpol.net is not a chan and is not restricted by the rules of 4chan and earlier websites Unironically leave. If you want this to become a circlejerk discord is a better place for you. >Everyone has tripcodes? Not an issue, builds better communities and gives high quality contributors a name for themselves and allows them to gain respect, further encouraging quality contributions. This does not encourage high quality posts or discourage low quality posts, it encourages drama. Anons can say shit to each other because they are anons and they can say it truthfully and those who are shat on will learn from it and not care since it won't matter in the next post. Call a tripfag out and they'll take it personally since its their trip and thus who they are when their on teh board. Its even worse when its a flagfag since you can turn a trip off but have to ask the mods to change your flag. >Anonymity is great, and that's the wonderful feature of this board. You can choose to post with a name, or without a name. You can do the same on any chan, the difference between here and any chan is that you can turn off a trip at any time while flags stay on. That and if you tried this anywhere else you'd be called out as an attention whore or a faggot.
The use of flags is twofold, as jews were marked so they would misrepresent the germans no longer, so do country flags prevent foreigners to speak falsehoods about your country. They also unite you under one banner with the people of your tribe.
Conversely, the dangers of flags is in the loss of anonymity and walking under a banner you don't believe in.
Now, imagine this:
Posters get a flag by geographical area. These "areas" are defined such that there is at least a significant portion of similar flags on the board. I'd suspect this would be USA, Europe, and "the untamed wilds" with the current userbase. Exceptions may be made for countries like israel and sweden, if it pleases the masses.
Users may request to have their flag changed on /qa/, but they need some share of users to adopt the same flag. It doesn't need to be a big share. If your tribe/banner were really that great, surely you could rally a couple of users to unite.
Ideally, in particular topical threads, certain countries would be decloaked so they either can represent or are unable to misrepresent. In a thread related to Zimbabwe or some other backwater country in the untamed wilds, Zimbabwan IPs should be displayed as such, so that whichever untamed wilds flag is chosen do not all represent zimbabweans.
>>3696 I could settle for the first half, the requests are still a no go to me personally even if several anons ask for it. I'd say implement a set few memeflags like /pol/ has or don't bother with it at all. Looking back at it we did do something like this before, with the 4th of July having more region based flags rather then country based. I'd say this is an alright compromise if you really want to be able to tell the difference between a kike from Israel and a European. The third part about de-cloacking flags sounds strange, and I'd overall say its not worth while since burgers have to ask which state, so should most other anons under what you suggest.
>>3696 >>3697 Agree with first half, but no customs. Region based removes ability to be a tripfag based on country, while keeping it in a way we can at least tell if an anon is close enough to said area to know their shit.
So in summary 1. Remove Custom flags. 2. No selectable custom flags for now. 3. Remove country flags. 4. Add geographic based flags. >Greater USA >Europe >x-soviet >Allah Akbar Stan >Latin America >Shitposting Islands >Niggerlands >East Asia
>>3700 Checked. I think most board goers will/have agreed with this kind of thing. If the mods want to move forward with it maybe throw a strawpoll or two up. One for the whole notion, and maybe another for what regions/names.
>>3702 >10 Euro posters >1 of them is from germany >The guy from germany will be spotted every single time >The 9 UK posters are "anonymous" because of their numbers If you widen the area, you increase the anons covered by each area.
>>3702 What >>3704 said but keep in mind we have a lot of anons that this will be helpful for. We have a lot of random Latin American posters like Chile, Argentina, Mexico, ect. They would be much more anonymous if they were only under their geographic location rather then said to be a specific poster.
Same with Europe, we have a few UK anon, a few German anons, a Portugal anon and a lot of other rare posters that this would help.
The goods I see out of it so far are we become more anonymous. This will help up moral, we won't know who is who so posting can be more honest and it'll make expand upon the potential for who posted on this thread. It'll also help increase traffic temporarily. Its a new feature and I for one will want to try it out a lot.
The negatives are we won't be able to tell which posters are leafs. This won't be a problem for now but if we get a bit more traffic and someone starts shitting up the board from lets say Leafland or Israel we won't be able to tell.
>>3709 then let's let those areas without a stereotype for shitting up discussion go under the usual banner, but then we have all the places known for shitting up discussion go under a flag titled "registered shitposter" or something.
>>3700 I can agree with this. >>3710 I'd say if someone is being a faggot I'd be fine with the mods revealing their country flag, but keep it to geography till then. Not too mention we could tell pretty easily if someone's a leaf or a Jew by their posting type and their geographic location.
Removing custom flags is a good idea because fuck Vril and his hard namefagging and attempts to become "Infamous", but censoring all flags into generic imprecise world regions is a terrible idea.
We all have IDs on our posts, discordfags can just use those if they want to namefag and yell "Shut up, you! You're you, I don't think you should get to speak!". And they can blame it on posting style if they want, even though they probably have a document full of IDs and names saved and open whenever they use this site. If we begin censoring things in our posts for fear that what we say might be used as arguments against who we supposedly are as people, we might as well be on reddit. These aren't just cute little icons and "Novelty flairs" next to novelty usernames, they're our flags. They're symbolic of our country, the countries we're supposed to willingly admit we're currently a part of.
Also, selectable ideology flags from a drop-down list just allows everyone the option to hide their current country and identify as "A Pirate" or "A National Socialist" in an attempt to blend in.
Selectable ideology flags in addition to country flags would solve the main problem with ideology flags, but only if they could only be changed once every month or so. However, these flags would also make it easier to figure out which American "Pirate" and which American "AnCap" you're currently talking to. Except we already have persistent poster IDs on most boards, so we don't really have anonymity in the sense that 4chan's "I could shitpost one day and be told to fuck off, then have a quality discussion the next day and nobody would know it was me" design is meant to allow. I get that these Post IDs were meant to prevent people samefagging or arguing with themselves, but randomizing everyone's Poster ID every few months might make namediscordledditfagging harder.
>>3720 >Except we already have persistent poster IDs You know they're not the same between threads... I can't think of one board, or hell even a single chan where this is the case. They only remain constant in a thread so that anons will know who they are responding to and so that you can't samefag.
>>3725 Only if these flags stay locked for two months or more after you make a post with them.
Also, only if these ideology flags appear next to the country flag. You don't want some fucking Leaf showing up trying to RP as one of us with a National Socialist flag covering up his cuck flag, right?
>>3721 We have persistent poster IDs in the same thread. This is good for preventing samefagging, but bad because any "Important" thread can have people trying to figure out names from posting style and political views. I'm not calling that an immediate problem, just something to keep in mind.
>>3725 Personally, but I don't find it extremely necessary. Keep it limited to say 4-6 ideology flags like say, Nazi, Lolbertarian, Ancap, Equestria, Confederate and maybe one more. >>3728 >Only if these flags stay locked for two months Stupid idea. The point in having them would be so you can change between threads to keep others from calling you out on your posting style to make you a bit more of an anon. >>3727 At this point I feel the same. We have some good options and ideas. I'd say we should iron things about a bit more first though so we aren't being rash and jumping into something that we might regret though.
>>3728 >tfw leaf Anon, you hurt me. >>3730 I have to say that the pnly other option is that we just revert the special flags and leave the rest of them alone, then go back to square one with that. If the problem is special flags, just take them away. Also, the flag request thread would probably have to be removed or archived.
>>3728 >Also, only if these ideology flags appear next to the country flag. You don't want some fucking Leaf showing up trying to RP as one of us with a National Socialist flag covering up his cuck flag, right? Not a huge problem here since the mods can reveal your flag if they really felt like it. If your shitposting from Israel and Canada they can reveal it and have you called out. >>3732 So the options are: keep as is, vert flag system back to country only, country and selectable ideologies, geographic locations only, geographic locations and selectable ideology flags, and no flags.
>>3800 This feature was suggested within staff several weeks ago. There is at present no unified intent to conduct a poll, although it seems reasonable to do so. Some staff members think a change can or should be implemented without a poll. In any event, it would help to have user input to determine what options should be presented.
I used to use an ideology flag but dropped it the last time my IP changed. OP is right that they give a persistent identity and that having persistent identities can lead to drama.
Another option to perhaps consider: Drop country flags but leave meme flags in place. The idea is it would mix things up and obscure peoples identities by having more users sharing the same flag but still leave room to show where you're coming from, so to speak. It would work best along with a dropdown menu to select your particular brand of autism, so that mods won't have to intervene for every single person who is posting here.
Anons have been bitching left and right about this issue for months, but it seems we have yet to come to a conclusion. I say that OP's should have a "hide flags" option, like how they have the option to hide user IDs. This, at the least, would be a good way to experiment.