/mlpol/ - My Little Politics

>not all Jews
Oof, that's not a sentiment that will go over well on any Chan, and for good reason.
I'll read it soon but I disagree that Jews should be "welcomed" into white nationalist movements for several reasons.

Firstly, Judaism is a religion/culture/ethnicity quite distinct and ultimately incompatible with white Christianity. AltHype takes a purely biological view regarding ethnicity, which works most of the time, but for complicated issues like this it needs to be tempered more with a religious/philosophical understanding (I am aware that Ryan is probably an atheist). That is to say, empirical data and genetic race is valuable but E. Michael Jone's view of "religion=ethnicity" also holds a lot of merit when you get into it. Because of this, Judaism's entirely different set of values cannot be counted as "white," nor can one find genuine support among atheist Jews (who are overwhelmingly cultural Marxists).

Secondly, Jewish ethno-nationalism (more accurately, ethno-supremacy) is generally Zionism and that should raise warning bells. The Jewish dichotomy is that of Zionism on the right and Marxism on the left with the majority of even ordinary Jews leaning one way or another. Zionism is of course incompatible with any sort of white nationalism because it views gentiles as inferiors to be used as labor; it's pretty much the widely-held caricature of National Socialism except it's true. And though you might find some temporary allies among Zionists (some even aligned themselves with Hitler, funnily enough) the Republican model of bowing to Israel holds the greatest appeal to them.

Thirdly, Jews are disproportionately likely to engage in subversive activities if you let them in your organizations. You can argue over whether "it's in their nature" but statistically speaking they're very politically active and tend to join movements just to sabotage or turn them to their own interests (hence the stereotype of Jews). Look at the smearjob against Mark Collett by a Jewish "friend" pretending to be white: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H-RN6R8lCF8

Lastly, there are too few Jews who escape the aforementioned dichotomy. Why this is so should be obvious: their culture their entire life encourages them either to be Zionists or cultural Marxists and only a few individuals break this programming. Those that do so visibly tend to suffer from it: they face ostracism from former colleagues, stop being invited to big events and have employment prospects reduced. Thus I don't distrust Jews like Murray Rothbard and Paul Gottfried because they've walked their talk and are worse off materially for it, but such examples are extremely limited. There's no "moral majority" you can appeal to because the majority will be against you no matter what.

With Jews, you lose.

>>246102
>Jews are white
No they're not
>Not all Jews are bad
Yes they are

Jews have and always will behave as an ethnic in-group in whatever culture they live in that isn't their own. This paper is a long way of saying "Alright, some of us will be good for a generation or two while the heat dies down, goy", yet they will always revert to subverting and corrupting their host nation in favour of their own kind eventually. The historical evidence is not on their side here. There is only one solution and that is removing them completely, either by extermination or by exile, and we all know how effective exile has been.

>>246102
I wouldn't go so far as to say that Jews should be celebrated or welcomed into white nationalist movements, but I do think that the whole "blame da joos" thing is counterproductive to our goals at this point. Most of it is derived from concerns specific to Zionism and the politics of the 20th century. Zionism has been a moot point since the founding of Israel as a state, and the idea that there is some kind of shadowy organized cabal of rabbis orchestrating the downfall of Western civilization is ridiculous (though I admit the meme is fun and I enjoy propagating it). Honestly though the West has mostly itself to blame for most of its problems, and any solution needs to start with addressing the flaws in our own political systems and the cultural rot we've allowed to fester. Both Jews and Zionism are irrelevant at this point, and we waste a lot of energy focusing on them as if they were the source of all of our problems.

>>246111
>it's pretty much the widely-held caricature of National Socialism except it's true
i wonder who could be behind that caricature, and why they made it that way.

>>246111
I would agree that E Micheal Jones has better knowledge on the topic of the JQ, I still cant stand that he places the teachings of the JQ above white identity. I think the other way around is a better idea, like Jared Taylor and American Renessance. They are a white identity movement, but they allow jews in their movement and dont talk about the JQ, I dont know who can say that will harm or help the movement in the long run.

>>246119
That's an awful lot of speculation and subjective positioning without any validation to the positions.
>I do think that the whole "blame da joos" thing is counterproductive to our goals at this point
Make an argument
>Most of it is derived from concerns specific to Zionism and the politics of the 20th century
Citation needed
>Zionism has been a moot point since the founding of Israel as a state, and the idea that there is some kind of shadowy organized cabal of rabbis orchestrating the downfall of Western civilization is ridiculous
Citation needed
>Honestly though the West has mostly itself to blame for most of its problems, and any solution needs to start with addressing the flaws in our own political systems and the cultural rot we've allowed to fester
There is some truth to this, however to disregard that the jews are active and participating in the cultural rot is naive in the VERY least
> Both Jews and Zionism are irrelevant at this point, and we waste a lot of energy focusing on them as if they were the source of all of our problems.
Citation needed

Lol, sounds like something you'd read on counter-currents.

No thanks.

St. Paul said it best: The jews are the enemies of the entire human race.

OP is a faggot

>>246131
>citation needed
I unironically love that response. It enables you to punt the argument back to the other party without addressing any of their points or even needing to make any of your own. I use it all the time when I want to feel like I'm winning an internet argument but am too lazy to actually respond to what Anon wrote. It's almost as powerful a checkmate as "no u." Very nice work.

Anyway:

>Make an argument
Righty-o; here goes.

A popular current of thought on the Right seems to argue that Jews, specifically, are the primary cause of the decline of Western civilization and that their removal, whether through physical relocation or extermination, will arrest this decline and even reverse it. I put forth that the first of these statements is only partially true, and that this calls into question the logic behind the second. I believe that this faulty reasoning has led the Right to focus large amounts of energy on the so-called Jewish question that could be more productively directed toward better goals. Here is my line of reasoning:

I. The decline of the West really began with the rise of the merchant middle class during the late middle ages, and the subsequent transfer of power from hereditary aristocracies to merchants, bankers, industrialists, etc. Diaspora Jews were well positioned to rise here due to their natural inclination towards these trades. The kings of Europe needed large amounts of money to finance their various dumb wars with each other, Christians were not allowed to lend money at interest, Jews were, so the kings borrowed from Jews. Subsequently, Jewish moneylenders grew wealthy and powerful. Jewish moneylenders acted predictably and in their own self-interest, not necessarily out of malice. Moreover, the nations of Europe that borrowed money from them created their own problems by getting into debt in the first place. Also, it's worth noting that Jewish bankers were not the only people who prospered here. Kings discovered that towns generated wealth more quickly than manorial fiefs, so they started granting charters to towns and trading companies, which gradually put an end to feudalism and empowered bourgeois merchants and traders, who eventually figured out that they could just cut out the middleman and depose the kings who now depended on them as a source of income. The Jewish folktale of The Golem is ironically very applicable here.

II. Jews are like any other minority ethnic group in that they stick with their own and put their own interests ahead of those of the nation that harbors them. This is a problem of ethnic diversity in general, not of Jews specifically. If you introduce a foreign population into your nation and then allow it to become influential in some way, it becomes competition for the founding group rather than an asset to the nation, because the members of these groups are loyal to their group and only see the nation as a power structure to seize control of. Rome, for instance, made the mistake of absorbing a bunch of foreign provinces and then becoming dependent upon them for food, production, luxuries, soldiers, etc (and yes, I'm aware that one of these provinces happened to be Judea). Again, the problem here is created by a nation having cosmopolitan, multi-ethnic populations competing against each other and against the founding group of the nation; it's not a problem specific to Jews, nor would the extermination of the Jewish race solve this problem.

III. In the modern era, the main complaint against Jews is their massive influence in areas like media, academia, finance, etc. Again, though, that they have been able to amass this level of influence is mostly due to the post-Enlightenment liberal system that transferred power from monarchs to wealthy individualists. Again, it is also worth noting that it has not only been Jews who have prospered from and exploited this system. At any rate, in a system where "the people" ostensibly hold the levers of power but can be easily swayed in one direction or another, power will naturally be wielded by whoever amasses enough money to buy votes or build a mass-media apparatus that can sway public opinion. Jews happen to be good at stuff like that so they've naturally become influential in those areas, and again not everyone who has exploited this system or benefited from it has been Jewish. Also, remember that the West ultimately deposed its own ruling classes in order to put this system into place, just as the ruling classes, through their own short-sightedness and greed, empowered the short-sighted and greedy idiots who eventually deposed them. We are living in the future we chose. The role of Jews in the equation does not change this.

>>246131
>>246282

continued.

IV. Since we are currently stuck with a system of more or less democratic rule, where whoever can influence the feelings of the largest number of retards gets to be in charge (again, we have no one but ourselves to blame for this), any change towards a more positive future necessitates going through that system to some degree. In democracy, you win by making emotional arguments that appeal to broad swaths of people who mostly don't understand the issues they're voting on. So, you have to make them understand, or at least make them see it your way. Even if you choose to blame Jews for all of society's ills (hell, even if they literally are to blame), you would have to be completely pants on head retarded to think that "gas the kikes" is ever going to be a winning platform. For one thing, most of the global problems frequently attributed to Jews (international banking, globalism, pornography, mass migration, etc) can be addressed on their own without even mentioning the JQ. Furthermore, by shifting the focus from a given issue to the question of whether Jews are behind said issue, your opponent can easily dismiss the argument as antisemitism without even addressing it. I'm sure we're all pretty sick of optics at this point, but the fact is they still matter.

V. I'd now like to take a moment to address this statement:
>to disregard that the jews are active and participating in the cultural rot is naive in the VERY least
For the record, I don't dispute this. However, as I've already illustrated, the cultural and political problems of the West have causes apart from Jewish influence that the old "it's da joos" meme fails to address. Moreover, by treating this single aspect of the problem as the entire problem, it shifts the entirety of the blame onto an Other, which both gives us a convenient enemy and implicitly absolves us from needing to address our own role in our own decline. The closest example I can think of is the common belief in the black community that the CIA is responsible for the crack epidemic. I honestly don't know if the CIA literally introduced crack into black neighborhoods or if that's just a meme, but for the sake of argument let's say it's true. Even though the CIA in this case is an actual, identifiable antagonist, it doesn't mean that the CIA is directly responsible for the actions of blacks who chose to start using the drug and became addicted to it. More insidiously, a large part of the problem is that blacks themselves saw the introduction of the drug as a business opportunity, and made themselves wealthy by selling it to their own, at the expense of the well-being of their own communities. Removing the CIA from the equation might have meant no crack epidemic, but the underlying faults in attitudes of blacks that allowed it to spread so virulently would still have been there.

Conclusion:

When you wake up in the morning, you can choose to eat a bag of Cheetos and jack off to midget trap porn all day, or you can choose to eat an apple and read a book. Some Jew might be responsible for creating midget trap porn and putting it in front of you, but you make your own choices about what to consume and how to spend your time. A lot of what's wrong with the West in the current time period is simply the result of people being lost, directionless and uninspired. Ultimately, a sociopolitical movement focused on building the inner character of whites and giving them something to strive for has the potential to initiate meaningful change, imo. A movement focused on spergs waving Wal Mart tiki torches and screeching girlishly about HURR DURR KIKES probably does not. Do with that information what you will.

>>246282
>>246283
>I unironically love that response. It enables you to punt the argument back to the other party without addressing any of their points or even needing to make any of your own. I use it all the time when I want to feel like I'm winning an internet argument but am too lazy to actually respond to what Anon wrote. It's almost as powerful a checkmate as "no u." Very nice work.
Well you didn't make any points before, all you did was offer your opinion. Arguing subjective opinions is wasted effort, and if you're not going to cite anything, why should I? Besides, I knew you couldn't resist and I appreciate that you didn't. I'll cut up this log real quick and then I'll do the same to your arguments. ^_~

>>246282
>>246283

>Some Jew might be responsible for creating midget trap porn and putting it in front of you, but you make your own choices about what to consume and how to spend your time.
On an individual level yes. Always.
That isn't enough for them though so they start pushing everything else away. Eventually you can 'choose' only one of their options. China's Social Credit score is a precursor to what they want.

>Removing the CIA from the equation might have meant no crack epidemic, but the underlying faults in attitudes of blacks that allowed it to spread so virulently would still have been there.
Changing the nature of people without removing the ones that actively attempt to make people worse off is an uphill battle. An active enemy always hounding any kind of progress.
While the Jews arn't the only problem. Not by a long shot. They do continually cause trouble throughout history. Everytime they are expelled they start shit again.

They have deliberately used, subverted, and made groups of people for their machinations. Marxist ideologues, Antifa (they didn't even bother rebranding them either), useful idiots, and the gullible masses.
They have a stranglehold of the Federal Reserve (plus banking institutions), (old fashioned) news media, entertainment, porn, and education. The free internet is a thorn, and a blessing for them.
Then there are special groups like Mossad...

They have built golems that do what they want. One way or another we will have to deal with them. Giving the truth, or finding a solution, or ending the problem the golems can be viral and infect, and spread.

>A movement focused on spergs waving Wal Mart tiki torches and screeching girlishly about HURR DURR KIKES probably does not.
Like you said it's all about perception of the masses if we need their support. (We do need not hostile people.)
>you would have to be completely pants on head retarded to think that "gas the kikes" is ever going to be a winning platform.
Eventually it can be popular. The KKK was popular. Being a National Socialist was popular.
Yelling about the Jews is memorable, and gives media attention, but the current platform doesn't have positive attention. Think Al Capone, and his soup kitchens.
Red pilling shows the truth of the situation, but not everyone wants that so they want the warm fuzzies of doing something regardless of how effective it is.
People fall into the broad array of possibilities...

>Ultimately, a sociopolitical movement focused on building the inner character of whites and giving them something to strive for has the potential to initiate meaningful change, imo.
Yes, but it can't just only be that it has to have positive public relations. Jordan Peterson is a baby step in the right direction. In his own words it isn't a complete mythology. Almost because of the greatest potential of man for greatness, and for unspeakable evil. Rooted deeply in truth. Not quite Red Pilled, but closer.
Genetics, and culture.
The only thing is the teeny tiny wrench of the JQ. Because questioning the Jews in any form is forbidden. The fatal flaw is the (((exception))).
People that don't believe they are flawless eventually start to notice the truth. The (((lies, and cover ups))).
Dr. Peterson called such a problem a dragon both mental, and society wide. It's dangerous, and risky, but there are rewards for slaying it.

It'll take time and effort, but raising awareness, and willingness to solve the problems at hand can change the world.

>>246282
>>246283
Pardon me, but I'm going to go at this in reverse order, because I made the mistake of skimming >>246308 this post first (yes, that 'this' was intentional, cuz he's right from what I saw).
>Conclusion
>cheetos and midget trap porn
I agree that it is beholden on the individual to choose an apple and a book versus the alternative, and indeed I do (veritably), but why aren't apples and books (or a verasimilatude of) the norm/staple?
Because of the Jews. Specifically, because of (((media))) which promotes degenerate behaviors and habits to an extreme that influences - in the US at least - a majority. You might then suggest that it is the failing of the majority to not defy the media with sound reasoning, and I would agree. Except that the majority is subject to all manner of chemical, and pharmaceutical, and medical (fucking mercury fillings? Really?) compounds from established (((organizations))) pertaining to food, drugs, and medicine, which corrupt and diminish the mental capacity (literally, by standard deviations) of the population in question.
You might then suggest that people can still educate themselves beyond the artifice of such (((organizations))) and find truth beyond the propoganda and artifice, and I would agree. Certainly there are those who do, but they are in the minority. Meanwhile the majority is educated by books written and designed by other comparable (((organizations))) who can be observed to make vapid and irrelevant the multitude of educational institutions who would otherwise aid in expanding minds and helping individuals break the chains of bondage otherwise placed upon them.
You might then suggest that among that increasing minority that avoids the pitfalls laid out by the increasing body of (((organizations))) who act in a manner to defile the population that they affect (and I haven't even gotten into profit or historical motive, but I will) there MUST be those who would seek to positively affect and combat the ventures of said groups, and I would agree. Except that such change occurs on a political level. I hope I needn't post zionist-affiliate memes to validate that point, but suffice it to say that at this point the political consensus is rather overwhelming. Any individual who - without even naming the affecting party - attempts to make change in the political sphere but with out (((their))) affiliation stands a snowball's chance in hell.
I could go on and strike out at religion, but I don't want this discussion to degrade unnecessarily (at least not yet).

Beyond your conclusion, you've made many points I agree with. However, while admitting there is more blame than that which falls on the Jews, that flies in the face of your initial point which was:
> Both Jews and Zionism are irrelevant at this point, and we waste a lot of energy focusing on them as if they were the source of all of our problems.

>V
I agree, there are active and pernicious groups that are not (necessarily, I don't know the demographics of Alphabet agencies, but I'd wager they make up the simple majority; conjecture I know) Jews.
>IV
And yes, we are currently subject to a democratic system, where 2 wolves and 1 lamb can vote over what is for dinner. And in this case, the wolves are wolves entirely because of ignorance, nescience (it still chafes me that nescience is not a recognized word, it really explains alot), apathy, and basic distraction. That the masses aren't more informed, active, conducive, and intelligent in their actions has already been addressed in my counter-conclusion. Additionally, I never made practice of statements like "Gas the Kikes", and I don't contest that such memes/phrases are damaging to efforts to uproot the Kikes and their machinations. And you're right, the individual problems caused by the Jews (how did I forget Banking?!) could be individually corrected, except I suggest you underestimate the degree to which other (((organizations))) will move to support and obstruct any such venture; not all of them at once, but enough to overwhelm any BUT an overwhelming ground-roots movement. The point of asking and asserting the JQ is to indicate that it is not actually a variety of independent groups, but it is one (primary) group of manifold affiliation, influence and power.
>III.
Yes indeed, non-Jews have made practice of exploiting many weaknesses in the society they inhabit, but what are the proportions? I would NEVER suggest that non-Jews don't have a hand in things, but allow me to draw an example.
In colonial days, it has been reported that of those who ventured to colonize the US (at the expense of the native population, duly noted and not to be diminished, but not the issue at hand here) approximately .5% owned and traded in slaves. It had further been suggested that of that .5%, 60% were Jewish. It has even further been suggested that 80% of the ships that traded in slaves to the colonies were Jewish-owned. I admit, there's alot of second and third-hand conjecture there, and I present it only as food for thought.
Returning, to suggest that "Jews happen to be good at stuff like that so they've naturally become influential in those areas" lands somewhere between naivete and duplicity. Shall I point to the Protocols of the Learned Elders of Zion, which was conveniently posted recently on the board? I know that illustrates a more recent example, but how about the Talmud? Is that antiquated enough an example?
The fact is, Jews have - by their own admission and writings - made a diabolical practice of predation against whatever and every society that they have inhabited. Its not that they're 'good' at it, its that they make it their business to be superior, and they operate relatively in tandem, against cultures that until recent years haven't had the luxury of getting the story from the hoers' mouth en masse. It is only recently that such information/material has been widely available.
<cont>

>>246282
>>246283
>Part Deux
>II.
You make excellent points about multiculturalism and the perils inherent, excepting that the Jews have, will, and do disguise themselves and their activities as assimilated into the culture they invade, duplicitously affecting the image of inter-culturalism (often 'taking the lead' in such things) but doing so disingenuously and superficially. They create an idea - a meme if you will - of cultures and peoples coming together to live harmoniously, and yet they deliberately act to corrupt and destroy the foundations of not only the multicultural groups that they apparently 'champion', but the originating cultures individually, all while maintaining the appearance of a 'paragon of multiculturalism'.
>I.
No. The decline of the west began when foolish men decided to follow other men in pretty clothing who proclaimed authority by proffering a book that only they could read. Kings and lords served the function of keeping the land and people safe from others who would pray on them, their resources, their lives, families, etc. There are many faults to be laid at the feet of nobility (and if you really want, we could trace it back to Sumer, where - surprise, surprise - you would also find Jews) but government in one form or another had an essential function that could not be abrogated by desire or decree.
Meanwhile religion taught humanity to be kind, forgiving, accepting, and credulous to those around them. One religion taught righteousness, community, and self-sacrifice, while the other taught predation, manipulation, and destruction of those not of their kind (Christianity had their moments, but Christians at least have been INconsistent in that, while Jews have never ceased to be consistent). And, Jews have always maintained the appearance of practicing the same values that Christians do - in fact they're religious cousins! - except that such behavior is reserved ONLY for Jews, but you wouldn't ever find that out historically except the hard way.

In summary, I don't contest that there are a myriad of causes for the society and world we experience today. I don't contest that even BEGINNING to attempt to correct (if indeed 'correct' is the apropos term) the situation requires incredible efforts and initiatives well above and beyond neutering the affects and practices of the Jews.

Having said, and in reference to the overwhelming stranglehold that the Jews have over the various establishments and institutions which are so rooted in society that it may well be that they CAN'T be neutered or eliminated (and many who overtly attempted to would be castigated, demonized, and ruined by comparison to historically castigated, demonized, and ruined cultures, the most recent and easy example being the German National Socialists), your position of "The Jews are irrelevant" is laughably absurd and not validated by your lengthy arguments.
Credit where its due, you are right about the final point of your conclusion:
>Ultimately, a sociopolitical movement focused on building the inner character of whites and giving them something to strive for has the potential to initiate meaningful change.

Its too bad we're all a bunch of fucking nazis just for thinking it. I find that we're playing a rigged game, and feel that when the game is rigged what matters most is personal integrity. But that's just me.
Please continue, we haven't even begun to exhaust this topic.

>>246319
>the Jews have, will, and do disguise themselves and their activities as assimilated into the culture they invade
This.
>The decline of the west began when foolish men decided to follow other men in pretty clothing who proclaimed authority by proffering a book that only they could read.
You blame Christianity and the Bible. Indulge yourself if you want.
But I would like to mention that such decline can be traced to the French Revolution, when jews begun to be emancipated.

>>246322
No, I blame the church and those who had positions of power within it historically. It was they who kept the teachings of the Bible separate from the people, and held a monopoly on the information contained in it.

>>246324
>who kept the teachings of the Bible separate from the people
Even if for the wrong motives, can you blame them.
The "Dark Ages" was the golden era of Christianity; and the "Enlightenment" the beginning of this wreck we see today.

>>246328
*Can you blame them?

The problem with the handling of the Jewish Question is not its direction nor its being brought up at all. What is a problem is how it's taken to utter extremes that strain and break all credibility, while stifling out any and all discussion about other topics.

For most people, a frank and even sacrilegious discussion of Judaism and Jewish Ethnicity offers something they don't normally hear. The realization that the Holocaust, just like slavery and so many other things of the past, is being held above the heads of White People to try to shame them into multiculturalism. For that matter, how the Holocaust is endlessly drilled into the minds of every schoolchild and adult in the West, while genocides of other ethnic groups, like the mass killing of over a million Orthodox Christian Greeks and Assyrians by the Turks (alongside the Armenian Genocide), remain obscure and unmentioned. And the reason for that is nothing other than the power Jews have in society. It's worth pointing out that, although Whites tend to see Ashkenazi Jews as just another White Eastern European ethnic group, Jews themselves do not see their own ethnicity that way, but rather as non-whites, and that fact reflects in their politics and approach to race relations and nationalism. It's worth pointing out that slavishly binding U.S. Foreign policy to Israel is not an arrangement that necessarily serves the interests of the United States. These things and others are genuine additions to the conversation that are to be had by being skeptical of Jews in society.

But dear God, the conversation is never satisfied by reasonable critique, or paying any attention to what is reasonable at all. Reading much of the discussion on Jews, Jews are depicted in such a way that is many levels beyond cartoonish and far beyond reasonable. Listening to some people, it seems that every single bad thing that has ever happened to anyone ever was caused by a grand Jewish conspiracy. Have a bad hair day? It's the Jews. Stump your toe? The Jews must have put that chair there. Stuck in Traffic? That's why the Jew invented the Highway system, to keep the White folk down. The discussion becomes a parody of itself, like that scene in the Murdoch Murdoch episode where under-cooked tacos are blamed on "the kikes". It's not a majority to be sure, but there is one person in every thread, and the rest tend to be milder versions of the same.

Jews are not a Hive mind. They do not have one collective consciousness shared between them. They are not the one and only group of people in the world that never fights among themselves. Their internal splits are not just "spectacle" for a world that doesn't need the display. "Globalist Zionism" is self-contradictory. The Jews who are Globalists (like Soros) want the extinction of the Israeli nation just as surely as they want the extinction of every other kind-of Western nation, and the Jews who are Zionsist like Netanyahu like the privileges Holocaust remembrance gives Jews, but their complete indifference to America and European nations extends to not actively wanting those countries destroyed (unlike the Globalists). Zionists and Globalists do not get along in the American Senate or elsewhere. Increasing Anti-semitism among the Left is caused generally by the Left starting to perceive Jews as White and Western and thus among their hated oppressors. Yes, Jews are vastly over represented among anti-western academics and activists. But Black academics and activists are as likely or more likely to be anti-western, there just aren't nearly as many Blacks who are intelligent enough to be professors, hence why so many of the anti-Western academics, authors, and activists are Jews - because they are the non-white group that is most common in the intelligentsia. I could go on and on with these little truths that need to be said but generally aren't.

Jews are not executing some master plot to preserve the power and future of the Jewish Race. The Jewish intermarriage rate is a hell of a lot higher than the White intermarriage rate, with about one in two American Jews marrying a non-jew, and with birthrates even lower than that of Whites. Jews, at least the Ashkenazi, are on a death spiral much more serious than Germans, Brits, or any White ethnicity.

Many of the claims about ZOG and Jewish conspiracies are so outlandish and require such a distorted view of reality that it's difficult to even begin to debunk them. Like how do you argue against a person who unironically believes that Queen Elizabeth II is a space alien lizard? I see that too often here. In the thread with the Leftypol posters, I think many of them were expecting to encounter actually rightwing view points on issues like migration, tradition, economics and so forth. Instead, a substantial percentage of the responses were just something like "you know that your ideology is basically true, except you need to do a 'replace all' on your manifesto, changing 'bourgeoisie' for 'jew' and 'the working class' for the white race'." It was all just the same shit with nothing productive added or discussed. I think the extreme focus on conspiracy theories about Jews can suck all of the air out of discussions about finance, censorship, migration, tradition, and so many other areas of politics that now are just replaced with "destroy everything Jewish and all of the bad things will go away." That's neither true nor conducive to actually productive discussion

>>246102
let's see
Jews push for mass migration, Jews pushed for civil rights which groups like the ADL use to silence any and all opposition. Jews use their wealth to subvert any true political movement in the USA. their lobbyists basically dictate foreign policy. they pushed feminism which destroyed they family.
this is just the tip of the iceberg, we're not even talking about their insane monetary policies which they implement through the Fed which they installed and control. say anything about any of these verifiable facts and they censor you, destroy you financially and completely slander your reputation.
but they're the good guys hahahahaha

imagine if 2% of the population were Swiss. they controlled finance, they controlled government, they controlled culture and silenced anyone for merely pointing this fact out. Americans would never allow it, no sane country would but when it comes to the Jews oh no it can't be.

not all Jews are bad but the source of every societal problems always has a Jew behind it.

>>246332
>Jews are not executing some master plot to preserve the power and future of the Jewish Race.
No, they aren't, but they have an extremely high in-group preference that makes it seem that way, and for all intents and purposes, creates the same outcome.

>>246332
>Jews are not executing some master plot to preserve the power and future of the Jewish Race.
Of course, it's just a Cohen-cidence concocted by those evil European Christians. The Protocols are a forgery, and not all jews are the same.
Seriously, KYS.

>>246332
If I recall, Jewish status is descends through the mother. I wonder if there's a correlation between inherited jewish status and the intermarriage rates.
He says sarcastically, as though the answer should be obvious.

>>246338
I think that's a misinterpretation of the data.

The over-representation of Jews in many sectors is the simple and logical consequence of a higher average IQ. The average European IQ is 100, and the average Ashkenazi IQ is 110. With IQ having a standard deviation of 15 and assuming a normal distribution, this means that 2.28% of all Europeans, but 9.12% of all Jews, will have an IQ of 130 or more. And 2.28% of all Ashkenazi Jews, but only .38% of Jews will have IQs of 140 or greater. This means that there will be 4 times as many Jews with IQs of 130 or more, and 6 times as many Jews with IQs of 140 or more, as there will be of Europeans in an equivalent sized group. This disparity only increases with even higher IQs, like 9.5 times as many Jews as Europeans with IQs above 150 for the same population. This is all of course assuming you believe in a connection between race and IQ, but I think most people here do. So it's really far from surprising that a disproportionate number of bankers, politicians, professors, and so forth are Jewish.

http://onlinestatbook.com/2/calculators/normal_dist.html

>>246340
They are a forgery, thank you for pointing that out
*Shrug*

>>246343
Okay...?
\r

>>246346
>Kikes IQ
Check the data from the ethnostate of Israel out, the results are not nice, they are pretty average and below.
You are more deluded than your golems; you are smoking from your own stash kike.
>forgery
As it was said, it is just a cohen-cidence that those Protocols match 100% reality.
Even if the lies are not deceiving anyone, I do believe that you are posting here in good faith.

>>246343
I have a pic related.

>>246346
They do testing on special days where they use old tests...
I think for lawyers in a university. Something something test didn't change since 1940s...
Pretty sure it isn't IQ tests...

I do doubt the validity of those Jewish IQ numbers, but I don't have evidence atm.

I do know China inflates their IQ tests.

For pic the second.
It's an exaggeration, but is an interesting idea nonetheless.

>>246346
Bear in mind that "European" IQ testing counts results from other ethnicities.

>>246102
>Whats your thoughts on it?
Bait.

>>246282
>>246283
I agree in some respects but one must take into account the inherently corrupting nature of power and how this led to current decline.

I. The decline of the West did not begin with a merchant class because merchant classes have always existed and are necessary intermediaries in any society that enjoys trade in goods or requires skilled services. Rather, it began with a number of events in the 14th century (beginning the "late middle ages") that set the direction of Western societies. One was, of course, the Black Death, which in its indiscriminate killing whittled away population to the point that there was a severe undersupply of labor and farmers left en masse for the cities. This in turn led to a reduction of power among local lords and increased that of the King. This, combined with a rise in nationalism such as that in the Hundred Years War enabled a monopoly of force that had been heretofore absent. Rather than competing aspects of society keeping each other in check, the supreme monarch became the State which caused larger and more disastrous wars among nations. Monarchs could not rule by themselves of course so they employed an intellectual class which formed the bureaucratic and academic supports for the State. Eventually, of course, this class decided it no longer needed the King or relegated him to figurehead status. Combined with this during these hundreds of years was increased irreligosity and heterodoxy leading to the eventual slope we find ourselves on now.

II. This is true to some extent but Jews are a uniquely potent threat in this capacity. Firstly, they "look white" to the untrained eye and so can rise to positions of influence more readily than other minority ethnicities, especially if in-group preference among the majority is already compromised to some degree. Secondly, they maintain a very, very, exclusive group that is based not only on ethnicity and culture but also on a religion which supports these; they are unlikely to interbreed themselves to oblivion, hence there is a longer genetic memory, and when combined with the first point they are naturally suited to the sort of affairs of secret societies. The word "cabalistic" of course is based on the Kabbala. Finally, Jews are genetically and socially geared to be successful due to a rather high average IQ (which in subsets leans more heavily to relationship building and abstract thinking) and being extremely book-centric. There is a lot of dislike towards blacks but mainly for the opposite reason: they tend to be of lower intelligence and reinforce this through aversion to learning. Blacks as a minority are unlikely to ever obtain dominance in a society on their own. Jews have been training themselves for two thousand years to take control and are uniquely suited for it.

III. I generally agree. I've posted before about how the French are more to blame philosophically because the French Enlightenment was the cornerstone of egalitarianism and every revolt against the moral and natural order; only a handful of decent French philosophers buck this trend and don't offer a sufficient counterweight. Why this happened in France in particular is up to debate but it is my view that this happened because of the centralization that had been part of French political life for centuries. It appears that the more centralized and authoritarian a society is (France, Russia, China), the more severely and suddenly it rejects its tradition and replaces it with a new left-wing centralized society.

IV. More or less true. The JQ has to be eventually addressed but it must be the wagon behind the pony; people have to understand these issues and think "wait a minute, what is going on here."

V. Again largely true. Even if the Jews are pure devils, devils don't actually make us sin; they put temptation in our way but we choose whether to sin or not. The Culture War is, simply put, good vs. evil, and we need to understand our underlying behaviors that brought about this evil in modern societies.

>>246308
Very much this!

>>246322
>French Revolution
Seems to tie back to my point. The French intellectuals were not Jews (to my knowledge) yet they made Jews a much bigger problem than they were before. Jews are nothing if not opportunists and if these new ideologies suddenly gave them a far better place in society why wouldn't they seize upon it?

>>246332
Bravo! Unfortunately, you drop the ball here:
>>246346
There may be 4 times as many Jews with IQs of 130 or more in an equivalent sized group, but society is not equivalently sized. There are far more than 4 times as many European-Americans than Jews in America. So why are they overrepresented? I haven't broken down the data completely but a cursory overview brings the "IQ excuse" into question. Pic related. Personally I don't doubt that Jews have a higher intelligence on average, because it would be embarrassing to get completely subverted by them in intelligence-based occupations otherwise.

>>246368
>The French intellectuals were not Jews (to my knowledge) yet they made Jews a much bigger problem than they were before.
Perhaps the same system to corrupt and to buy leaders was applied as is today, jews have a track record at this.

>>246317
>Shall I point to the Protocols of the Learned Elders of Zion
I'd like to point out that this book is widely considered to be a forgery. I'm sure the immediate response to pointing this out would be something along the lines of "that's what da joos want you to think," but the fact is it's a book of highly dubious origins that has no identifiable author and whose contents can't be verified. Choose to believe it if you will, but in terms of credibility I'd put it a notch or two beneath Alex Jones.

The Talmud is a little better, since it's an actual Jewish religious text. I've not actually read it, I've only seen the same out of context quotations plastered on /pol/ infographics that you probably have. But I'll grant that there appear to be some damning passages in there, but it's only damning if you assume that all practicing Jews believe and follow its doctrine to the letter, and that they coordinate with each other based on this doctrine. That's a rather big leap.

>your position of "The Jews are irrelevant" is laughably absurd and not validated by your lengthy arguments.
Your position that "the Jews control everything" is not validated by any of YOUR lengthy arguments. You seem to take it as a given that any organization that has Jews in it is automatically under Jewish control, which itself requires the assumption that Jews consciously work in tandem with each other and have the same goals. You don't submit proof for either of these assumptions.

Also, Seinfeld was a pretty funny show.

>>246377
>I'd like to point out that this book is widely considered to be a forgery.
Loudly said by the Jews. They are evil, but rarely so stupid as to recognize their crimes.
>da joos
Only the Jews refrain from mention their own denomination. Confess, you are Jude.
>You seem to take it as a given that any organization that has Jews in it is automatically under Jewish control
Infiltrated would be more accurate.

Finally, someone talking sense,
Jews are white as well, they are our allies against anti-white/semitism and against muslims.

>>246388
Checked.

>>246377
I almost missed your faggot posting.
Have a pony too.

>>246332
This post also makes some good points. You seldom hear it discussed in either left wing or right wing circles, but Israel at present is experiencing a diversity crisis the same way that Europe and America are, with a large Palestinian population threatening to displace the Jewish population and turn it into a majority-minority country. The same conservative-liberal, globalism-nationalism debate that we're currently having is happening there. There are pro-nationalist Jews and pro-globalist Jews in Israel. Diaspora Jews have varying opinions too; some are conservative, some are liberal, some support Israel as an all-Jewish state, some don't. There are vehement globalists working to dissolve borders and redistribute the entire wealth of the West who don't have a single drop of Jewish blood in their body. The "Jewish Question" is as complicated a matter as everything else in global politics these days, and it's so tedious the way /pol/ insists on constantly framing everything as the work of some sinister Jewish cabal.

>>246396
Thank you, that is a very lovely pony.

Also, thread theme
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gO4JXeRdg1o

>>246401
>it's so tedious the way /pol/ insists on constantly framing everything as the work of some sinister Jewish cabal.
>cabal
That's right. Even if you resist, I am glad you acknowledge at least the term.
I tell you something that WAS a secret, the cabal have used the jews as its administrators, or oversees, for centuries, if not millennia.

>>246401
Israeli Jews aren't just Ashkenazi/'White' Jews though. So yeah, 'diversity.'
I don't remember but you're looking at something like a 20% Arab admixture and I've been called crazy for this or ignored, but, Israel really is a region dominated by religious standards of entry first - they do some notable off the wall crazy shit to ethnic groups sometimes, single power style, but being Judaist is a pretty low bar for Arab people. Assuming that this actually is the lowest barrier to entry and it does exist both consistently and in isolation, still, big if true (not hard to imagine given the admixing) and IIRC that's still a 20% admix on or of some white sub-group of Jews in a country with an already substantial Arab / Muslim population.

Assuming that I'm not misremembering things and recalling them to a dated view I heuristic/taped together several years ago at a young age.
I guess that would be more similarities though, that being lowered standards of entry generally and particularly religious standards of entry.

Additionally, enter stage left: An unintended leftist influence of certain Christian faiths over others.

>>246377
>PotLEoZ
I have to agree that it is a dubious source at best likely drawn up by Russian Imperial secret police. I'd like for it to be real, but the counterclaims of its veracity has been presented with evidence and the burden of proof now rests on those who cite it. The only argument that can be made is that it's a stylized summary of how Jews really act, a sort of Cliff's Notes for the Talmud. From personal experience, if you mention the PotLEoZ to a Gentile who is generally sympathetic to Judaism you will immediately get told how it's a forgery; therefore, it's useless as a redpill unless if you manage to verify it somehow.

>Talmud
Relatively few people who are almost entirely Jews have actually gone through the entire Talmud. It's several volumes of thousands of pages and is basically studying law. And that quotations are "out of context" is a given since they're spread through memes which inherently have only visual context. Fortunately, there is backup for the quotations. Two sorts of Jews publicly admit them: apologetic/objective Jews who dig into the Talmud with a historical mind (https://press.princeton.edu/books/paperback/9780691143187/jesus-in-the-talmud), and rabid Zionists who publicly consider the Gentiles to be subhuman. Source: a quote from Ovadia Yosef (pic related), who was basically the Jewish equivalent of a patriarch. He was the Sephardic Chief Rabbi (which is closer to Arabs than Ashkenazi who are our chief concern) but it is damning nonetheless.

>it's only damning if you assume that all practicing Jews believe and follow its doctrine to the letter, and that they coordinate with each other based on this doctrine
That the Talmud is significant to practicing Jews is indisputable, it is its central religious text and is valued above even the Torah (https://www.myjewishlearning.com/article/why-do-jews-study-talmud/). The Torah is, of course, well-known among Christians as the "Jewish Bible" but the Talmud is much less known, which raises a lot of questions about this inconsistency.
"To the letter" cannot be taken literally simply because of the Jewish style of argumentation, known as "pilpul," where scholars try to interpret apparently contradicting passages in the Talmud (https://www.jewishvirtuallibrary.org/pilpul). This is essentially the Jewish dialectic and is why Jews argue in a very twisted manner. Nonetheless, it does has a significant influence on Jews.
A culture is heavily based on its moral practices and tradition. For China this is Confucianism (expressed through Confucius' saying) which emphasizes a hierarchical, family-first society that is dominant even today. For Europe it was Christianity (through the Bible) which fostered a more energetic, libertarian society. Therefore the Talmud, which has been studied rigorously by Jews for 1500 years and is the main source in Judaism, has an undeniable impact on Jewish culture and Jews will freely admit this.

>Seinfeld was a pretty funny show.
Agreed. It's always been my standpoint that Jews obtained dominance in Western media through humor which isn't afraid to stretch boundaries. They outcompeted on this front before and more anons need to realize this. Now they are constraining themselves with political correctness and nepotistic hacks like Amy Schumer; 4Chan's culture has always embraced edgy humor and memes which have spread across the internet like wildfire and made certain people very afraid.

>>246401
I remember there being a Rusanon living Israel who was talking in the Syria thread about the political situation of Israel. Israel is heavily divided with Zionists on one side and globalists on the other. This is due to large religious/ethnic divisions among the Sephardi, Haredi and Ashkenazi. Funnily enough, Israel is facing a demographic crisis, though it's not all on the globalists. The Haredi are the most orthodox sect but are exempt from military service and largely live on welfare; due to high birth rates they are imposing higher burdens on society. I don't think that /pol/acks object to Israel trying to save itself ("human rights" is not a huge priority here) so much as leeching off the United States to increase its own power.

>There are vehement globalists working to dissolve borders and redistribute the entire wealth of the West who don't have a single drop of Jewish blood in their body. The "Jewish Question" is as complicated a matter as everything else in global politics these days, and it's so tedious the way /pol/ insists on constantly framing everything as the work of some sinister Jewish cabal.
I know what you mean, but I nonetheless feel it's apt to describe globalism as cultural AIDS. AIDS hurts everyone but it's spread around largely by faggots; nonetheless, it's possible to find non-faggots who have or spread AIDS.

Also, good taste in Twilight art, I haven't seen those particular pieces on the site before.

>>246425
Converting to Judaism means you might find some acceptance, but you will not be treated as their people, you'll always be treated as an outsider. Look at the treatment of black Jews in Israel. How ironic.

>>246363
Well, I think it's about accurate, because that 100 number has come from the United States and Europe before they were inundated with immigration. Looking at a map of IQ the highest IQ European nations the Netherlands and Switzerland are closest to the top at a mean of 102.

>>246368
What exactly are Jews overrepresented in that cannot be explained by IQ? As stated before, the disparity between the number of high IQ individuals rises as the IQ rises: 4 times as many at 130, 6 times as many at 140, and so forth. Congress is 3 times as Jewish as the general population. That's really not surprising at all if we expect a minimum of ~125 IQ to get into the professions that are a stepping stone to congress. Among Billionaires, finding numbers is hard, but it looks like something like 30% or so of the top 100 wealthiest are Jewish, and this percentage decreases as wealth decreases. This also means there are many more White Europeans in these sectors than there are Jews.

>>246351
>Israeli IQ
Well yeah. I specified "Ashkenazi" for a reason. The Ashkenazi Jews are the one and only group of Jews found to have the higher IQ. Shepardi and other groups of Jews are functionally just another set of middle-easterners. The great majority of Jews in Israel are Shepardi or other non-Ashkenazi, and fully 20% of the population is Palestinian, so of course the average IQ is lower

>>246353
The Ashkenazi 110 IQ has been mostly uncontroversial among race realists, so I am not entirely inclined to be persuaded by un-cited screenshots

>>246456
Even giving that Congress is "3 times" as Jewish as the general population (and I think this number is suspect), particularly influential committees such as the House Judiciary Committee are absolutely dominated by Jews. If you look at the Supreme Court it's almost as bad. This isn't to mention particularly influential NGOs.

>30%
Just taking this number at face value doesn't do much. Where are they concentrated? You will find that Jews are far more than "30%" in especially influential sectors such as media and finance. There is no shortage of aspiring and brilliant whites in these fields so why the disparity? These are the same sectors that have a reputation of nepotistic practices.

Also, why is it that political revolutions tend to be overwhelmingly led by Jews? Does their "superior IQ" make them try to usurp control?

>>246456
And a few more samples of major media outlets. I've seen plots of more media firms and they're just as unflattering.

>>246462
>Where are the Jews concentrated
I’m not the one claiming there is some kind of conspiracy going on, so you tell me.

Just posting infographics isn’t really helpful, as they are always poorly cited and never really elucidated or examined in the posts.

As for revolutions, what are you talking about? Sure, the Bolshevik Revolution had a number of Jews in it, as did the associated and derivative Hungarian and Bavarian Revolutions. But the Spanish Civil war wasn’t lead by Jews. In fact it was the Nationalists who launched the revolution, and it was Spanish mostly on the side of the Communists and Anarchists. Che Guevara and Fidel Castro were Argentinian Spanish/Irish and Spanish respectively, Mao was Chinese, Ho Chi Minh was Vietnamese, Josip Tito was Croat and Slovene, Henk Sneevliet (who supported communism in Indonesia) was a Dutch, Gandhi was Gujarati, Nelson Mandela was Xhosa, Lenin was 3/4 other Russian Empire ethnicities besides his 1/4 Jewish ancestry, Stalin was Georgian, Karl Liebknecht (one of the two leaders of the Spartacus rebellion) was German, the Angolan Civil War involved natives there, as did Robert Mugabe’s Communist Rebellion in Rhodesia, Mexico had its own series of revolutions lead by Mexicans, and let’s not forget that revolutions existed before 1917. The French Revolution, the American Revolution, the American Civil War, the Tiapang Rebellion, the various revolutions of 1848, the Paris Commune, the Sepoy Rebellion, the original Spartacus Rebellion in Rome, and countless scores of rebellions, revolutions, uprisings, and civil wars in history, including frankly most of the Communist uprisings of the 20th Century, were perpetrated and lead by non-Jews.

The only Rebellion to have any real serious Jewish presence was the Bolshevik uprising and the two smaller revolutions it spawned in Hungary and Bavaria. Jews were over represented, but these 80% and 95% figures are myths. The only Jewish member of the first soviet government, the Council of People’s Commissars, was Leon Trotsky. The remainder of government, while much more Jewish than the Russian population, was something more like 20% Jewish (a figure I got from Timothy Synder’s book “The Bloodlands.” Ironically this exact work is cited in the info graphic), not anything like 80%, and anyone claiming otherwise needs more detail and firmer citations than a jpeg. This over representation, like most, over-representations, has an explanation. The Bolshevik Revolution was in part a rebellion against the dominance of the Russian ethnicity over a large, multi-ethnic area. Ethnic minorities were over represented, especially since at first, Lenin wanted to give independence to many of the smaller states. Jews, who are not Russian Orthodox and not Russian Ethnic, obviously had no reason to be loyal to an ethnic Russian and Christian Russian State. They also tended to be secular and better educated, and had no reason to think any kind of ethno-state, including free Ukrainian and Polish Ethnostates, would be of any benefit to them. The Pogroms of the Russian Government and the Whites probably did little to persuade them either. Thus disproportionately many Jews supported the Bolsheviks. As Stalin instituted his regime, the number of Jews in high soviet posts started to decrease, the number of ethnic Russians in Soviet posts increased, and at the very end of Stalin’s life, he started to look at Jews with much the same suspicions as he looked upon Ukrainians and Poles in the 1930s. Infamously, Molotov fell out of favor because of his Jewish wife, and in his last days charges like supporting “Universalist Jewish Nationalism” we’re leveled against some Soviet citizens. Communist governments and revolutions after that tended to be perpetrated by members of the local ethnicity.

>>246463
Alright, I figure I’d take to verifying (more like debunking) the infographics, since those are the only things anyone is going to post anyways.

NBC posts a list of their executives on their website. Now, that’s not a complete mirror to whatever is in the infographic, because the infographic doesn’t claim to be an accurate depredation if the NBC executive board, but rather a list of every guy who might be Jewish who has ever worked there. And further, unfortunately, the biographies of these people on the NBC Website doesn’t tell me if they are Jewish. Even if it included a DNA test, we don’t really have a set definition of how much Jewish ancestry a person must have to be “Jewish,” but I still think we can progress far with just name analysis.

The list is here https://www.nbcumv.com/corporate/executive-bios

Of the first two rows, only one person - Catherine Balsam-Swaber, General Manager of Blue Print - has a Jewish name (“Balsam”), and even that is sandwiched alongside a German name in a split name. The CEO, Steven Burke, has a Norman Anglo-Irish name. The president of Life Style Networks, “Berwick,” has a Scottish name, the Executive Vice President If Business and Strategy has a Indian Sihk name, the chairman of content distribution has a Viking-English name, then an Irosh name, a French name, an Italian name, a black guy, a French name, an old Irosh name, a welsh name, a German name, an unverifiable band of the British Isle, the president of MSNBC has an Irish Surname, the head of the legal division has an old English name, a German name, and a black woman. Mark Hoffman, chairman CNBC on the fifth row, is the first one to have a German name that is sometimes used by Jews. But the very next person on the list, the President of Universal Television, is a black woman with an Igbo Nigerian surname, then an Irish and English split name, the Chief Financial Officer of NBC Universal has a Hawaiian surname, then the chairman of NBC news, Andrew Lack, has an anglo-saxon surname. Mark Lazarus, head of NBC sports, has a name derived from the Old Testsment Bible, so he may be Jewish, but then that’s followed by a Scottish name, another Scottish name, then an Italian name.

Out of 28 listed executives, only one has a definitely Jewish name (Balsam-Swaber), and that’s in a split name she may have taken from a husband, a second is very probably Jewish (Lazarus), and then a third might be Jewish (Hoffman). Yes, it’s entirely plausible that a Jewish woman married and took the name of a non-Jewish man, or that someone is Jewish but had an anglicized surname. What I am not seeing is any overwhelming evidence of a complete and total over-representation of Jews in the NBC executives.

>>246468
>I’m not the one claiming there is some kind of conspiracy going on, so you tell me.

>Just posting infographics isn’t really helpful, as they are always poorly cited and never really elucidated or examined in the posts.
Do you want me to put books up here instead? The reason why these infographics work is because they show all the individuals involved so it's easy to verify if they're actually Jewish (they are). It's a whole lot more elucidated than "muh 30%" or "3 times as Jewish" (if you are the same poster and you may not be).

Also, you're posting dozens of rebellions in history, some of which are not relevant, and are challenging me to prove Jewish involvement in all of them. Obviously it's a nearly impossible task except for someone who's well trained in history, which I'm not. However, the fact that more than a handful of revolutions and communist regimes had disproportionate Jewish involvement, if not outright leadership, should raise questions.

>Spanish Civil War
I'm not all too familiar with the intricacies of this struggle and I have not delved into leadership of the factions, but it appears that Jews openly favored the Republicans. Take it from the horse's mouth: https://www.marxists.org/subject/jewish/spanjews.pdf

>Mao was Chinese
I found it extremely interesting some time ago that some of Mao's top henchmen were not Chinese at all. Pics related. Really makes you think.

>Lenin was 3/4 other Russian Empire ethnicities besides his 1/4 Jewish ancestry
Sure, just ignore all the other top Bolshevik leaders who were Jewish. These people (particularly Trotsky) were later purged by Stalin who sought a more nationalistic direction for the Soviet Union and was suspicious of Jews.

>Spartacist Rebellion
Funnily enough, one of the major reasons why Jews became hated in Germany.
https://semiticcontroversies.blogspot.com/2017/08/the-jews-behind-1919-spartacist.html
https://www.haaretz.com/jewish/1919-communist-revolutionary-murdered-by-weimar-1.5390706

>non-European revolutions
Again, I cannot make any detailed statement regarding these because of lack of unfamiliarity. Nonetheless, many of these were ongoing due to foreign support, mainly from the Soviet Union. Rhodesia collapsed only because of the withdrawal of all foreign support from the West; it is unknown but may be speculated as to how Jewish interests influenced this. In non-white countries you're less likely to find overt Jewish support (which is why Mao's aides stand out), but that doesn't mean there wasn't assistance from abroad.

>French Revolution
That is one good point which I have previously brought up, and is the main reason why I am in the "Jews are a symptom, not the disease" camp.

>American Revolution
Totally different in character and spirit from socialist revolutions and does not really belong here. Ditto for the War Between the States which was just a power grab by the general government.

>Taiping Rebellion
I'll give you that.

>revolutions of 1848 and the Paris Commune
Again, I am not familiar with the major actors in these movements. However, this does look promising. https://www.jstor.org/stable/4615300?seq=1#page_scan_tab_contents

>literally ancient Rome
Are you going to go all the way back to Sumeria too? The idea that Jews are disproportionately members in rebellions and revolutions does not imply that they cannot happen without Jews.

>most of the Communist uprisings of the 20th Century
[Citation Needed]
Again, you're trying to place the burden of proof on me but I just showed that the biggest communist uprisings in the 20th century had an undeniable Jewish presence. You may be able to claim "most" as in numerical number of uprisings counting every third-world nation, but obviously these had less impact.

>The only Jewish member of the first soviet government, the Council of People’s Commissars, was Leon Trotsky
Yakov Sverdlov, Jewish
Grigori Zinoviev, Jewish
Karl Radek, Jewish
Maxim Litvinov, Jewish
Lev Kamenev, Jewish
Moisei Uritsky, Jewish
Source: https://www.ihr.org/jhr/v14/v14n1p-4_Weber.html

>This over representation, like most, over-representations, has an explanation.
Which makes a whole lot of sense. However, it does not give the full picture which requires a look at Jewish culture. Jews have the idea that they're supposed to create a sort of paradise on earth, which of course is a temporal view rather than a spiritual one that Christians have. This has led to a high degree of support for utopian ideologies. Combine this with a sort of revenge/search for equality and it's easy to see why so many are communists.

>>246478
>Debunking the infographics
Said infographics have been around for quite a few years so don't take it as a current list. If you want to "debunk" it you need to look at the names given and show that they did not indeed work at the same time but are spread out in a wider pool of employees.

>public list
Which is the information NBC chooses to show. I cannot claim it is an invalid source, but it may be intentionally misleading in an attempt to show how "diverse" the corporation is (a popular trend nowadays). They are the faces of the company but do they make the decisions? It's up for debate until one can find an insider view of their corporate structure. Generally speaking, executives and management take orders from the board of directors, who in turn receive their cues from the company shareholders. A more complete look requires looking at those individuals as well.

So yes, it is an admission that the infographics are somewhat outdated (I'm guessing they date from the early 2000's) and I hope that whatever madlad made them compiles a new collection, but they are still very much valid unless proved not to be.

>>246377
>Protocols
>Talmud
That was a deliberate argumentation strategy. One can readily dismiss the validity of the protocols. The Talmud however, is incontestable. I have read the Talmud (rather, a translation) and while less overt (even given the more questionable parts) than the Protocols, between them they have a certain consistency. It is therefore plausible to assume that it could be legitimate, just as it is plausible that it is a fake.
I don't believe that all Jews practice its teachings to the letter, but there are plenty who do and factually speaking its a cornerstone of their religion. It is read, taught, and practiced from en masse to this day.
Yes, you're right. Just cuz there are Jews in places doesn't mean they control the shit.

Except when their names are on all the deeds and certificates of ownership. THEN they control shit. When boards of directors, investors, etc. are all Jews, then they control shit. I supplied as many proofs as I was supplied in that argument, and the points I made allude rather well known elements and aspects about the Jews. I asked for citations, not and exponential magnification of the same initial opinions. I give what I get.
And in the interim, plenty of anons have provided more than enough citations to support my arguments.
Your move.

>>246484
>American Revolution is totes different
Hey, you said "Jews start Revolutions," so I may as well be thorough in showing revolutions, uprisings, civil wars, and wars of independence that are clearly not Jewish

>you're posting dozens of rebellions in history, some of which are not relevant, and are challenging me to prove Jewish involvement in all of them
Well obviously You claimed that most revolutions have a Jewish origin, so the only real way to prove that wrong is by showing that most revolutions did not have Jewish origins. Which can only really be done effectively by listing dozens of Revolutions. Did you want me to post a jpeg or something?

>Sure, just ignore all the other top Bolshevik leaders who were Jewish
And any honest list of top leaders of the Bolshevik Revolution would show that, while Jews showed up in great numbers and were clearly over prepresented, they were nothing like 95% or 80%. If you want to claim that Jews supported Bolshevism and were over represented in Bolshevik leadership, I am not going to dispute that because it seems to be true. If you want to claim that Bolshevism had no real support or leadership besides Jews, then yes, I am going to start giving you a long list of non-Jewish Bolsheviks.

>many of these [non-western Communist uprisings] were ongoing due to foreign support, mainly from the Soviet Union
This is all true. But they were lead and manned by non-westerns, or at least, non-Jews, and by this time the Soviet Union was far less Jewish than it had been before Stalin.

>Mao's henchmen being Jews
And how many tens of millions of Chinese, Manchu, Russian, Korean, American White and other people did he come in contact with or receive support from in that time?

>The idea that Jews are disproportionately members in rebellions and revolutions does not imply that they cannot happen without Jews
Hence why I list literally dozens of uprisings, many leftist-communist in nature, to show that Jews actually aren't disproportionate in rebellions with the sole and clear exception of the Bolsheviks and associated rebellions in 1919.

>[Citation Needed] on non-Jewish 20th Century Communist Uprisings
I already gave you my citiation, and that was by naming the leaders and rebellions of Communists in contexts were Jews played almost no part. But I'll happily list it again:
The Chinese Civil War involving tens of millions and resulting in the largest Communist country. No, Mao meeting with a few Jewish Russian Commintern members doesn't somehow mean that those guys can claim the credit for all of the hardwork of the PLA. If anything, the Japanese Army, Chaing Kai Shek, and President Truman did more to help the Communists. The Communists in Vietnam were lead by Ho Chi Minh, the Communists in Indonesia were founded by that Dutch guy and were eventually lead by Sukarno, and Indonesian. Pol Pot in Cambodia was mixed Khmer and Chinese. Che Guevarra was an Irish-Spaniard from Argentina, Fidel Castro was Spanish. There were the Communist Revolutions in Angola, Mozambique, Rhodesia, the Seychelles, and frankly dozens of other little African and Asian nations. The Spanish Civil War. Sure, a few spectating Jews may have liked the "Republicans" more than the Nationalists. So did Ernest Hemmingway, George Orwell, and more than half of the population of Spain. That is irrelevant for this point, because the Spanish caused it, lead it, and prosecuted it to its bloody conclusion. Manuel Azaña, Julián Besteiro, Francisco Caballero, Juan Negrín - These guys lead the Anarchists and Communists. These guys were Spanish. Of course they were, because Spain had been pretty well purged of Jews. And the Communists didn't start the Civil War, the Nationalists did. If your whole point in this is "The Bolshevik Revolution Mattered more than China, Vietnam, Cuba, and literally everywhere else combined," then okay I guess, but then it's harder to make a universal claim about Revolutions (and Communism for that matter) being specifically Jewish.

>List of Jews in Russia
And not a single one of those was in the first Council of People's Commissioners. Sure, all of them worked for the Bolsheviks. My point is not and has never been that there were not vast numbers of Jews in the Bolshevik Government. My point was, is, and shall be that there are vast numbers of non-Jews in the Bolshevik government as well. I can start listing them if you prefer.

>Jews have the idea that they're supposed to create a sort of paradise on earth, which of course is a temporal view rather than a spiritual one that Christians have. This has led to a high degree of support for utopian ideologies. Combine this with a sort of revenge/search for equality and it's easy to see why so many are communists.
Maybe? I think the simpler explaination is that the Nation-States of Europe held no appeal at all for Jews, because they knew that no matter what the nation was, the Jews would be the odd ones out, always a minority. A People without a State. So the dream of a world with no religion, no racial divide, no borders and no states, held a hell of a lot more appeal to Jews than it did to Christian Russian Ethnics, who could seek to be represented by the Russian Tsardom, or Polish Catholics, who wanted to establish their own state, and so on and so forth.

My Point is and has been that Jews perceive themselves as outside of Western Nation States, and thus are disloyal to them, and are more receptive to anti-nationalist ideologies than Western Whites, or frankly probably most groups that haven't had the "stateless" experience. The high IQ of Jews and their over-representation in the intelligentsia, combined with this disloyalty, can make them dangerous. What there is not, is some kind of grand conspiracy that is explicitly Jewish (there may be a grand conspiracy, it's participants just don't think of it as Jewish). And there is no reason to think Jews are more tribal than the rest of humanity.

>>246484
>The NBC information it may be intentionally misleading in an attempt to show how "diverse" the corporation is
Well, if that was the intent, they are doing an amazingly shitty job of it. The NBC executive list is overwhelmingly dominated by names from the British Isles, and almost all of the tiny remainder is French or German. I only looked at names, and the simple fact is that only names are published. It's hard to find someone's ethnicity unless they are especially famous. I very seriously doubt any of the infographics has any more solid information than names.

>spread out in a wider pool of employees
The Infographics are clearly from a wide employee pool, because it covers multiple subsidiaries under a parent corporation. The alleged Jews are cherry picked out of the larger employee pool, and it gives off the false impression that Jews, who admittedly are probably a decent sized minority, are a hell of a lot more numerous than they really are.

If NBC really is a Jews-only club, then why does the current list of 28 executives across several subsidiaries include only probably 3 Jews. Yes, 3 Jews out of 28 is a decent number of Jews, and I've already explained in laborious detail why we should except some over-representation. But it's just a pitiful number if NBC is at the Vanguard of a Jewish Conspiracy to completely own all media. Do you think that NBC was a Jews only club back in 2000, but it isn't now?

I guess I can look further into these inforgraphics to show the degree of cherry picking, how many employees these corportations had that were not Jewish and not shown, or call into question why people are labelled "Jewish," but would it be worth my time?

My point with the infographics is that they should not be used as substitutes for doing the research and thinking yourself, which is how I usually see them used on this website. Anyone can just write anything and put it in a jpeg. It shouldn't be taken as indisputable, gospel truth

>>246494
>most revolutions have a Jewish origin
Negative, I never claimed that. I claimed that Jews have had a disproportionate impact on world history through participation in major revolutions (which you've agreed with) and that this can be tied to culture. Note the word "major." I am deliberately adopting a Eurocentric perspective because ideologies eventually having worldwide impact originated there. Active participation in smaller revolutions wouldn't be necessary because outward influence is usually sufficient. For example, Mao became a communist in France (those pesky frog-eaters again) and a great number of revolutionaries study in universities. I won't go into the contention over Jewish overrepresentation in universities but that this may have an impact is clear.

>If you want to claim that Bolshevism had no real support or leadership besides Jews, then yes, I am going to start giving you a long list of non-Jewish Bolsheviks.
I didn't claim that, but overrepresentation clearly varied at different levels of leadership which was the point of the infographic. I have no reason to doubt the infographic (particularly in regards to the NKVD which was particularly detested by Ukrainians) so if you have a link to a comprehensive list that would be appreciated. Also keep in mind that people with partial Jewish ancestry fall into a gray area and cannot be counted as "non-Jews."

>And how many tens of millions of Chinese, Manchu, Russian, Korean, American White and other people did he come in contact with or receive support from in that time?
We are talking about some extremely influential people in the Chinese government. Popular conception is that it was exclusively a Chinese revolution and government (my view until a couple of years ago) but people like Sidney Rittenberg stand out. You can't count them as among tens of millions, you have to look at how many non-Chinese (and non-Manchu) curried close favor with Mao and held positions in the Chinese government and then consider how many Jews number among them. And no, I'm not claiming that Jews "can claim the credit for all of the hardwork of the PLA" but it's at least as ignorant to claim they didn't have significant influence over policy when they held such positions. I could also argue the point that American vacillation regarding the Chinese Civil War led to communist victory and may have been influenced by spies and agents (Jews in America were also disproportionately favorable towards the Soviets, see the Rosenbergs).

>A lot of conflicts outside Europe other than Spain
I've addressed why I ranked non-European revolutionaries lower in importance. Spain is an actually good example that I'm sadly not able to refute now simply because I don't have strong historical knowledge regarding this. Spain may resemble France more in that it had a strong anti-clerical, egalitarian movement consisting entirely of Gentiles, except that in Spain's case a reactionary group succeeded.

>universal claim about Revolutions (and Communism for that matter) being specifically Jewish
That's actually not my point. I actually posted in the /leftypol/ outreach thread that communism essentially arose during the French Revolution and that it's therefore not specifically Jewish. I am simply contesting your denial of Jews being foremost advocates of egalitarian ideologies since then. Perhaps I am simply an incorrigible contrarian but it's a complicated issue that ties back into culture. E. Michael Jones perhaps has the most cohesive view on it and I recommend his work.

>A People without a State
Pretty much this and explains why Jews are largely divided into Zionists (who want a state like other nations) and globalists (who seek abolition of nations and a merger into a super-state). I agree that this is partly due to their history and gripes with other peoples but also it's due to their core beliefs.

>What there is not, is some kind of grand conspiracy that is explicitly Jewish (there may be a grand conspiracy, it's participants just don't think of it as Jewish)
Again I agree and I don't think there is a "grand conspiracy." Conspiracies certainly do exist but they are smaller and more fragmented. There is no firm hierarchy but rather a set of relationships and clout which creates social fabrics across borders. Relationships are stronger with common culture and characteristics so it just so happens Jews have a greater connection with each other that magnifies their influence.

>>246495
What I meant is that organizations are increasingly wary of flashing their "Jewishness" like Barbara Lerner-Spectre because they are wary of public discontent. Many consider it in their best interests to hide their ethnic background to the point some try to edit their Wikipedia bios. Fortunately, sites like this exist: http://www.jewornotjew.com

I have the same concerns about such infographics particularly in regards to using them as substitutes for argumentation. The problem is that performing an in-depth study is difficult without being an insider in the corporation. Changing it to a statistic brings other problems such as sample sizes and selection. And sadly, it seems to be the trend on imageboards to recycle old statistics and infographics from ten years ago rather than compiling new ones with better information. Jewish influence is at best a side issue for me yet getting a clear picture is nearly impossible and, although detailed study is highly worthwhile it is not the best thing I could be doing. Imageboards bring together many people of different specialities to fill out deficiencies but /mlpol/ is still working on the "many" part.

>>246484
do you know if the jews influenced stuff in china around the time the silk road war created and how long that influence has stayed?

Too much jewish dialectic. A solution is needed.

>>246449
>That the Talmud is significant to practicing Jews is indisputable, it is its central religious text and is valued above even the Torah
I guess what I was trying to get at is that individual Jews vary in their level of actual participation in their religion. Like Rabbi Yosef in your picture is probably a good example of a Jew who follows his religion closely and probably believes and practices all that stuff about Goyim being slaves and whatnot. However, I don't think you can reasonably argue that every single Jew on the planet thinks and behaves this way. /pol/ cherry-picks creepy Jews like that, and then suggests that they are secretly broadcasting subliminal radio signals out of their Jew-antennae that cause sleeper Jews across the world to wake up and start subverting Goyim. Suffice it to say that I am skeptical of this type of thinking.

>A culture is heavily based on its moral practices and tradition.
Judaism is strange in that it is both a religion and an ethnicity, and there are different ethnic subtypes, and they are scattered all over the world. That's why I tend to think the "Jewish question" is complicated. It seems to me that the further removed from their religious traditions individual Jews are the less a lot of this wacky Talmud stuff applies. For instance I would be very surprised if someone like Adam Sandler or Jerry Seinfeld has ever even opened the Talmud, or even owns a copy of it. They probably don't even regularly attend synagogues, if at all. A large portion of American and European commoner Jews identify as Jews ethnically but are not particularly involved with their religion or care about it. Many are even atheists.

/pol/ tends to take quotations from Sarah Silverman and Jon Stewart and the like as evidence of ((())) behavior, but I tend to see them as just retarded liberals who also happen to be Jews. In fact their self identification as Jews one minute and as white the next is something I also treat as more characteristic of Western liberal opportunism than some sort of genetically ingrained Jew trait. Leftists bleat propaganda about fairness and inclusion, but the vast majority of them are cutthroat opportunists and individualists underneath it all. The murky Western perception of whether or not Jews are considered White is rooted in the murky Western perception of what being White actually means; not everyone is racially conscious, so some people see "White" as being simply a matter of skin color, versus its actual definition of someone who is ethnically Western European or Anglo. Jews who are physically indistinguishable from Whites can pretty much claim dual identity in this society. It's not surprising that Jews, particularly liberal Jews who fixate on identity grievances, would call themselves Jewish when it suits them and White when it suits them, in much the same way that liberals like Elizabeth Warren will identify as 1/1024th Cherokee if they think it will help their job application.

>For Europe it was Christianity (through the Bible) which fostered a more energetic, libertarian society. Therefore the Talmud, which has been studied rigorously by Jews for 1500 years and is the main source in Judaism, has an undeniable impact on Jewish culture and Jews will freely admit this.
Your mentioning how Confucianism influences Chinese culture and the Bible influences European culture are good comparable examples of what I'm talking about. These belief systems have a profound cultural impact even on people who don't necessarily observe them consciously or follow them because they are imprinted on the culture to some extent. But it is an enormous leap to take some obscure passage from the Bible and say that "all Europeans believe this because European culture is based on the Bible and this is in the Bible." I've had fedora-tipper atheists try to use that kind of reasoning, where they cherry-pick Biblical passages about stoning people to death and whatnot to prove that Christianity is inherently violent or supports white supremacy or something. It's silly, fallacious reasoning no matter what your opinions on the religious system in question are.

>I don't think that /pol/acks object to Israel trying to save itself ("human rights" is not a huge priority here) so much as leeching off the United States to increase its own power.
I basically agree with you here. I think America's alliance with Israel is mostly a one-sided arrangement where we send them money and troops and the only thing we get in return is a bunch of their enemies. I'm 100% in favor of cutting them loose. Ideally I believe in returning to a traditional 1/1 ratio of ethnic groups per nation, so my preference would be for the Jewish population in America and Europe to relocate to Israel, in much the same way I'd prefer for the black population to relocate to Africa, the Mexicans to Mexico, etc. I just don't see any particular need to exterminate them or otherwise fight them; just send them to Israel and cut off ties.

>Also, good taste in Twilight art, I haven't seen those particular pieces on the site before.
Thank you. Unfortunately I forget where I found it. Here's some more though.

I've been waiting years for /mlpol/ to finally be pro-Ashkenazi master race.
I'm glad to finally be accepted by cattle.

>>246487
My response to most of this would be covered in my response to another anon here: >>246520

Sorry, I read his post first and I don't feel like typing out the same points again.

>>246522
>Both Jews and Zionism are irrelevant at this point
Still waiting

>>246482
If you read his post carefully you'll note that he's actually not saying that name is everything. He's saying that he has found no obvious way to independently validate the ancestry of any of these people, so in lieu of that he's basing everything on name. The broader point here as I see it is that these infographics are not a reliable source of information. It's not that hard to take a bunch of pictures of NBC executives and photoshop a bunch of Juden stars over them. Without independent corroboration of the Jewish ancestry of each of these people, along with the highly relevant detail of exactly how much Jewish ancestry each of them has, infographics like these mean basically nothing.

>>246524
lmao still waiting for what, you autist? I've already dedicated considerably more of my time and energy to this silly discussion than it's worth. All you keep doing is bleating the same paranoid talking points over and over and deflecting back to me when you don't have anything else to contribute. I don't know what else to say to you at this point.

"Zionism" was a philosophy of Jewish nationalism that argued for the creation of Jewish state. The creation of Israel accomplished this so it's largely irrelevant at this point. Whatever remains of Zionism as a political movement is now focused mainly in Israel itself and is primarily concerned with the preservation of Israel as a Jewish-only state versus a modern globalist-internationalist state that allows non-Jewish immigration. In short, whatever remains of Zionism is an Israeli Jewish-nationalist movement that is of little concern to anyone who isn't Jewish or Israeli; thus, to whites, it's irrelevant. Not sure what else you want me to say about this.

I say that Jews in general are irrelevant because I believe that nationalist movements should be primarily concerned with ending diversity and immigration in general. Jews are only relevant to the nationalist conversation in that they are one ethnic group among many that does not belong in America or Europe. They have their own ethnic state and I believe they should return there; apart from that I really don't care about them or have anything against them. The assertion you appear to be making is that there is some kind of large, coordinated Jewish conspiracy to disrupt Western civilization, and that it has been ongoing for centuries. This opinion seems to be prevalent among the far right, despite nobody being able to present any concrete evidence of the existence of such a conspiracy beyond half truths and out of context quotes from the Talmud. The burden of proof is on the people claiming the existence of such a conspiracy, in this case you. Absent such proof, my position is that Jews are no more relevant to any non-Jewish nationalist movement than blacks, Arabs, Vietnamese, or any other ethnic group currently living in places they don't belong. Not sure what else you want me to say about this.

>>246520
I know pic #2 is a meme, but the words of Rabbis hold more weight than that of their god.
Not sure what third pic is. Should be interesting though. Mobile fagging can't read the big pic.
>>Also, good taste in Twilight art, I haven't seen those particular pieces on the site before.
This.

>suggests that they are secretly broadcasting subliminal radio signals out of their Jew-antennae that cause sleeper Jews across the world to wake up and start subverting Goyim. Suffice it to say that I am skeptical of this type of thinking.
Why bother? Imagine a people so entirely self interested that the only way they can work togther is through mutual blackmail.
Then a designated slave class that only have worth as an animal. They can do anything to them, and the others won't condemn them. Infact they may celebrate it.
Saddly they do have to put up with each other, but they have a mutual goal to make a Heaven on Earth for themself. Hellish for the animals, but who cares they are just filthy animals.
If put to a deadly situation they can kill as many of their fellows to survive. The others won't penalize them.

Now imagine a normal one. They don't really want to directly be the cause of pain for the animals, but the promise of a paradise sound pretty good. They will try to not support animals, and do what the local group manager is saying.
The manager has an opportunity, and they are selected for being driven for doing the tasks the manager wants.
Others watch their fellow rise, an incentive to follow the manager.

Now imagine a really devoted one. Knows all the teachings skilled in pilpul, and the local manager has taken the devoted one under their wing.
They rise in rank. A true believer in the grand plan, and understands what must be done.
Eventually the old management dies off, but they also raised other equally minded devoted managers.
They know the grand plan won't be done so they raise another batch of managers. As long as the plan continues to succeed they will work with, and destroy any group or individual. Even if that means 'working' with an animal.

One that does the minimum required has almost no impact has little proportional support (still more than a filthy animal) at every turn they have incentive to not help the animals except when it directly profits them (a transaction with another fellow is fine).

The nieve one won't be given great positions of influence, but are useful just the same.

Any that try to spoil everyones' reward is delt with.

To throw the animals into confusion they claim that an intelligent, amazing, influential animal was one of them all along.

Infact mixing the animals in the zoo is great fun. The perfect obedient animal might even come out as a result.

>(Go back home!)... I just don't see any particular need to exterminate them or otherwise fight them; just send them to Israel and cut off ties.
I really really want that to be true (Jews to stop being utter bastards). I don't want to have to have senseless violence.
I don't think they would stop their globalhomo plans.
Previous actions, and current ones don't line up with just stopping.

>>246529
Damn it's nothing related. Here's some more pics.

>>246526
You've yet to validate your initial position outside subjective opinion. You're entitled to that position, but my points in contrast are no less rhetorical than yours. As such, we're still at a standstill in the individual discussion and are getting soundly destroyed in the general discussion, which was the end I was aiming for initially.
Maybe you should go back to Garfield posting

>>246102
I'm so tired. How many times a year do we have threads like this?
This is almost the same thing we discussed with the commies in their thread a few weeks ago.
Why are we still here?

>>246554
>This is almost the same thing we discussed with the commies in their thread a few weeks ago.
OP might be here for round #2.

>>246531
Well the thread is basically just anons arguing over whether or not Jews are bad, so the whole discussion topic is pretty subjective to begin with. Again I'm not really sure what I could tell you that would meet your personal criteria for objectivity, since every time I elaborate on something you ask me to elaborate on you just reply with "no u" or boilerplate /pol/ nonsense. All I've said is that I don't particularly see Jews as a threat, nor do I believe in some overarching Jew conspiracy, and you've presented nothing that proves anything to the contrary. As I said the burden of proof isn't really on me here. I'm not really sure who you think is getting destroyed but I guess if you want to call this some kind of victory then I'll just let you have it.

anyway thanks for confirming you are who I thought you were. you should just pop a Midol and come back already, you're really making a lot of drama out of nothing, and nobody is even quite sure what you're being so pissy about. also, if you want more dank Garfield memes just say so. here's a fresh one just for you.

>>246495
Andrew Lack, is infact definitely Jewish.

Names for heritage are very circumstantial evidence, although when it comes to Jewish names it probably incurs much more certainty of ethnic origin than an 'Anglo-Saxon' name would of ethnic origin.
Now that I think about it, how could you look at the picture of Andrew Lack and not think to explore further, he simply put just looks very Jewish. His Anglicized name? Oy vey, because it worked. Also, that which works is incentive.
Andrew Lack is actually called (-claimed to be -rather) Jewish by Kevin McfuckingDonald himself, which I believe is before it was biographied that Andrew was born to a Jewish family.

People like Andrew often maintain multiple positions or have had a long history in executive positions, like Andrew who was, "the chairman and CEO of Bloomberg Media Group; chairman and CEO of Sony Music Entertainment; and president and chief operating officer of NBC Universal."
NBCUniversal is obviously not (exactly) NBCNews, but Andrew is the Chairman of NBCNews and notably also MSNBC currently.

While he sort of worked his way into it it's more like being eased from a long (and especially notably varied career), coincidentally he was hired by Don Hewitt at the earliest onset of his career who is obviously Jewish and had Jewish parents.

These high executive positions are notable but the real cake is always the unique high executive positions, chairmans, presidents, ceos and the like.

I think everyone here is fine with saying that American interests will probably be fine without Israeli/China/Etc. help and the baggage of Israeli/Chinese/Internationalist/Etc. negatives.
Like China or Russia filling in the gap left by the US (an unfortunate and inconvenient result of pulling support of Europe that is a separate issue from that of the countries who the US defends for its own interests not spending sufficiently on their own militaries anyway) -in the European and NATO area would probably be bad for the US but I really have no idea what Israel gives internationally to the US.

Media is kind of the same to me and it's alot better since young people increasingly just turn this kind of garbage off anyway, even if not outright doing so having their time infront of a screen increasingly occupied by other things. Your deliberation to whether 300 tweets a day is an improvement. This media isn't providing anything and it is being veto'd in part.

Thanks for explaining the secret and esoteric phenomena of elite distributions. I don't think anybody needed that, but what are you even arguing for?
Replace Jewish American with Chinese National American and it makes no difference who should be in control of their own destiny, their own autonomy, their own autarky, and all within their own lands.
No white nationalist would be comfortable being ruled by Asia because of IQ in of itself. Deliberating over the actual hostility of Jewish elites does seem still worthwhile though.

I think what really happens here is people are very invested in the meritocratic argument when defending the position of whites compared to blacks in the US and the world given also hereditarian premises, (although I would more strongly and aggressively posit they are evolutionary priors).
It is simply put important when dismantling equality arguments that attack whites. The "no not racism, just meritocratic, natural, outcomes." Types.

Really it is still a question of native entitlement (just as most arguments against elite foreign verical non-white slices of populations almost always degenerate to) though and the white-black gap is just the optimal strategy of proving rather than forcing under the given circumstance.
Playing defense in the circus instead of just living the natural reality de facto in effect as if the facts are known when not.

Since people will always be invested into the meritocratic argument to justify the rightful entitlement, (but also natural in the case of the black-white difference) -of whites against unfair hostility, and so struggle to not want to tear at the 'higher US Jew IQ' given the meritocratic aspect - It's easy to sympathize since the idea of the disparities between brown people and whites being natural makes me have warm fee fees, feel very objective and I like the associated ideals that justify that status quo - besides the moralizing of course this is just a slice of why it matters.

Still, having a foreign non-native, minority elite is uncomfortable.
So again, I think this is all a big argument caused by opinions and feelings that get grafted onto the black-white gap arguments. Why they are even important in the face of "why not pursue equality anyway over meritocracy" being quickly forgotten by investment into the previous arguments. There is just no need to argue against the Jewish-White gaps and Jewish merit because the same was done in favour of whites for the black-white difference.

Oh and there's the whole thing where Jews are probably still over-represented at elite universities above even what their merit explains, or, are at least advantaged despite possible merit in a non-meritocratic way.
https://www.theamericanconservative.com/articles/the-myth-of-american-meritocracy/
Read on from: "In fact, Harvard reported that 45.0 percent of its undergraduates[...]" and etc.
Arguments about whether this represents other universities or not abound from this I'm sure. (It probably does though).

and i found this conservative meme on conservativememes.com don't worry about it theres nothing wrong with that - (its perfect for air dropping stuff from a site like that to other fellow kids by the way)

>>246577
>you didn't already know
As for your position, elaborating on why you think something is not an argument. Facts, evidence, and a position based on them, that's an argument. Again, you're entitled to the opinion "I don't particularly see the Jews as a threat" and that's your business. Personally I agree with you on the overarching Jew conspiracy. If we're getting down to brass tacks, I'd suggest that there IS a conspiracy that just happens to have a preponderance of Jews, and not that the preponderance of Jews world/nation-wide are in on a conspiracy. But I'm not here to argue my opinion. You however decided to argue yours, and you've done a shit job of it. I guess pointing that out means I'm on my period hmm? Well played, that was a class move.
Carry on though, by all means. You're clearly winning hearts and minds and shit.

>>246526
>The broader point here as I see it is that these infographics are not a reliable source of information.
Which if that's his point, he should've just made that his point, the circles on circles retardation of doing something to roundabout to the actual point is an illucidity(a word that doesn't exist) of the highest order. ill-lucidity illucidity ill-lucidity
I'd definitely take anglo-saxon names to prove gentile status over saying unknown but not over evidence of Jewish ancestry. Jewish names as evidence of Jewish heritage - that relation probably has it beat slightly though.

Often times when someone says, say for example "Steven Burke is Jewish" it's something somebody on Stormfront said one time, which was maybe repeated as fact a dozen times in a dozen other random and obscure websites, often not even expressly political. From no source of familiarity (except McDonald that one time I can think of) and with no evidence, it's just said at face.
They are self-propagating disinfo, unintentional, maybe intentional, of the greatest degree. A walking interference.

I'll eat my belt if Steven Burke is Jewish.
Just looking at these people in tandem with their names though is a pretty okay thing to do. Not as definitive, not unknown and vague. Half of these high executives with unique positions are known to be Jewish - that's from every media related parent company or company though and some of the positions have probably changed and like with Andrew there's new information that confirms the suspicion alot better - he has a much larger biographical presence now.

Look, I know IQ has been a claim of over representation in various sectors but honestly it points at a deeper illusion. Statistically blacks have an IQ 20 points lower than whites and believe that their hardships are due to some kind of white privilege conspiracy. Jews on average have an IQ 20 points higher than whites. Here you guys are, complaining about some grand Jewish conspiracy. If you believe Jewish people control everything you're basically falling into the same bullshit thought patterns ghetto niggers fall into. Don't be a nigger just learn how to actually acheive shit instead of being a tinfoil hat white trash retard.

>>246595
>Here you guys are, complaining about some grand Jewish conspiracy. If you believe Jewish people control everything you're basically falling into the same bullshit thought patterns ghetto niggers fall into.
>Don't be a nigger just learn how to actually acheive shit instead of being a tinfoil hat white trash retard.
>white trash retard
Sorry, I don't bite it.
You are flipping the all the evidence mixing it with emotional and ego bait. Well played, but..., you are wasting your time. Better debate in good faith kike.

>>246598
I was told by my supervisors that the plan to deceive the intelligent superior goyem is more than winning some internet argument with a furry. I'm not allowed to talk to you.

>>246529
lmao the Kabbalah is literally on the reading list you posted.

>jews are masters, goyim are slaves, animals, etc
I've heard all this before. I've read through all the memes and redpills about how Jews control us and so forth and so on. What I still haven't seen is anything that proves it's more than baseless speculation.

In regards to the stuff about radio signals, obviously I was being facetious. But what I was getting at overall is that just because the Talmud says to enslave Goyim or whatever and some orthodox rabbis in Israel apparently take it seriously, this does not prove or even indicate that this is a belief held by every single Jew in every single place in the world where Jews are found. Nor does it prove or indicate that there is any international cooperation between Jews along those lines.

By way of comparison, here's a quote from 2 Kings 6:28-29: "And the king said unto her, What aileth thee? And she answered, This woman said unto me, Give thy son, that we may eat him to day, and we will eat my son to morrow. So we boiled my son, and did eat him: and I said unto her on the next day, Give thy son, that we may eat him: and she hath hid her son...."

Does this randomly selected passage from the Bible prove that Christians endorse baby cannibalism? No, it just proves that there's some weird shit in the Bible. If one particularly weird sect of Christianity decided to start eating babies on the basis of this passage, would this be proof that every Christian on earth secretly eats babies? Again, the answer is no. Some Christians just go to church once a week and can't quote any scripture passages beyond John 3:16. Is it really that farfetched a suggestion that not all Jews participate in their religion to the same extent, or are aware of and agree with every teaching in their holy books? It was pointed out by someone that the Talmud is thousands of pages of convoluted, self-contradictory commentary on archaic laws. As I said before not all Jews are even observant of or interested in their religion, and even among the devout I'd imagine there are very few who have actually studied the entire Talmud.

>I really really want that to be true (Jews to stop being utter bastards). I don't want to have to have senseless violence.
>I don't think they would stop their globalhomo plans.
>Previous actions, and current ones don't line up with just stopping.
Well, we really won't know until we try. How's this proposal: send them all to Israel, and then if they don't behave themselves, we've got them all in one place and only have to fire one nuke.

>>246602
>What I still haven't seen is anything that proves it's more than baseless speculation.
What exactly do you want? What kind of information would satisfy you?

>As I said before not all Jews are even observant of or interested in their religion, and even among the devout I'd imagine there are very few who have actually studied the entire Talmud.
Most don't need to be extremely well studied in it. Simply being recognized as a fellow Jew opens up options.
There are even a wide degree of difference between each of them.

Makes one wonder about the My Fellow White People jewish twats on twitter. There really shouldn't be at many Jews doing that specific kind of propaganda.

>Well, we really won't know until we try. How's this proposal: send them all to Israel, and then if they don't behave themselves, we've got them all in one place and only have to fire one nuke.
>send them all to Israel
Sounds like what the Nazis did.

>we've got them all in one place and only have to fire one nuke.
Just have to ensure that the future generations don't have to do the terrible task before us. Kicking that problem over to them just exacerbates the issues.

Speaking of nukes the Sampson option is something to consider when planning.

>>246608
>What kind of information would satisfy you?
I do believe you are wasting your time when you believe the debate is in good faith. The jews and their lackeys are dishonest and their motives default to corrupt and destroy, always.

>>246595
>bro let a foreign malus minority out compete the nativized, white, majority population, thats okay because no conspiracy
Okay leaf.

>>246611
Yeps.
Nothing quite exposes their spirit to others, in this case posssible newfrien lurkers.
I do know an influx of leftypol users came here. The real gems are the random mindful lurkers if I or others do actually chanage their mind in a real tangible way that is all the better.

Now on live speech a different implication is needed sometimes, but being the reasonable voice loaded with info images is normally enough to open some up to really think about the problem at hand.

>In regards to the stuff about radio signals, obviously I was being facetious.
>>246529
Side steps the whole reply, then asks the same question again.
>Nor does it prove or indicate that there is any international cooperation between Jews along those lines.
The answer I gave was that true cooperation wasn't needed that through incentive, and cutthroat actions could result in the same group without direct communication lines. They don't even really need to believe the same thing.
There are the short term minds, and the long term minds.
The motivated, and the lazy. The invested, and the apathetic.
As long as they are on the 'same side' and have appropriate targets for their desires, and whims it is a wide net to see those related.

Just to be clear, I am Singanon.
>>246520
>However, I don't think you can reasonably argue that every single Jew on the planet thinks and behaves this way.
>what is culture
I've noticed an issue with your reasoning which is taking a strawman of the "Jewspiracy" hypothesis: that is, you believe we're arguing all Jews behave identically like ants. They do not though a few posters might believe something similar to it. The reason why I have enunciated culture and the influence of holy books is because it does affect thinking to a large degree. "Not all Muslims" are necessarily violent fundamentalists who take the Quran literally, but it's illogical to presume that the Quran has no influence on the values of Muslim countries. I've known perfectly decent and amiable Muslims, but it's unquestionable that Islam as a whole tends to be remarkably more violent. Even Muslims unfaithful to tenets in the Quran often become extremists because the set of values espoused in the book and through society make it a relatively acceptable path. Likewise, Christianity and the Bible had a far different impact on Europe and the Talmud has had a distinct impact on Jews. It's not "radio signals" but it's memetics of a sort. It doesn't mean literally every Jew behaves the same way but it sets the average. Just as you can find retarded Jews, though they're much fewer than among other groups, you can find a few who buck Jewish culture; the majority are nonetheless follow a standard to some extent.

>Many are even atheists.
My opinion is that irreligious or atheist Jews tend to be worse than religious Jews. Firstly, even Judaism as a religion has certain standards of propriety that makes adherents more "conservative." Orthodox Jews are also a lot easier to pick out with their locks and funny hats and tend to identify as Jews. Atheist Jews are not immune to their cultural upbringing by any stretch but they tend to be much more subversive and utopian. You often find them pushing pornography, faggotry and open borders. What makes them do this is up to question but their preponderance, as well as dualistic behavior ("fellow white people" one minute, "I'm not white I'm Jewish" the next) really stretches the explanation "retarded liberals who also happen to be Jews."

>the murky Western perception of what being White
Although the genetic definition of "white" is a natural prerequisite a cultural dimension should also be considered, though it may tie back into religion. White culture no matter the place tends to value highest low time preference, hard work, honesty, meritocracy and empathy for other people and even animals. These are qualities which seem to more or less exist across Europe (though Eastern Europe values meritocracy less) and are not universal across all peoples. There is of course overlap with other groups of people but it seems to me that all these values together are emphasized only through white culture.

>But it is an enormous leap to take some obscure passage from the Bible and say that "all Europeans believe this because European culture is based on the Bible and this is in the Bible."
It is less saying that all people agree on a particular passage (except in the case of hardcore Zionists) and more to do with the cultural underpinnings of the belief. For example, not all Europeans believe that Jesus sacrificed Himself for the benefit of all but nonetheless self-sacrifice even for the undeserving is considered a noble virtue. In the same way not all Jews believe they are the master race but most are self-conscious of their identity and consider themselves victims in some way.

>I just don't see any particular need to exterminate them or otherwise fight them; just send them to Israel and cut off ties.
I generally have the same idea regarding the issue. It's clear that we don't disagree on practical matters, just theories regarding the world. Personally, I'm not too obsessed about Jews but I enjoy talking about them 1) to be an edgy contrarian and 2) to get actually decent counter-arguments so that the "Jews did it" crowd can refine their arguments. Echochambers are awful.

>>246526
>he has found no obvious way to independently validate the ancestry of any of these people, so in lieu of that he's basing everything on name
Because such people are usually smart enough to not flash their Jewishness in front of everyone, it's usually a guessing game at times; sometimes you can't be 100% certain either way but you can get evidence to reach a reasonable conclusion. Names of course are one method but facial structure is another way. The best way is genealogy but it's the hardest to get info. Right now I'm trying to make a "Jew/non-Jew" list of CFR members (yes, all of them) and it's really hard because a lot of them don't have a wikipedia article, let alone profile pictures and information about family.

>>246529
>grand plan
I really think that a bunch of smaller plans yet more-or-less aligned with each other is closer to the truth. The more people you have working with you, the harder it is to keep a centralized system secret.

>>246554
>"discussed"
This thread is a lot better than a bunch of retarded spergs yelling at an opposition viewpoint to get out because they don't like it.

>>246577
Tbh both sides make a decent amount of sense. I just attended a seminar conducted by Fidelity Investment, which is the largest wealth management firm in the world. Surprisingly, it's not owned by Jews though I'd still never want to work there because of its globohomo alignment.
It's really a chicken vs. egg problem. Did the Jews make globalism into a problem or did globalism make the Jews into a problem?

>>246111
trips of truth. Honestly I feel like the number one thing about jews is that they are neanderthal blooded. this is not unique to them but their religious behavior ecouraged the preservation of those traits compared to other races. Over all I would welcome jews if they would undergo gene therapy or steralization. This is a bloodline that does not need to be continued.

Firstly we have to examine nature around us to tell what kind of species are there. Quickly we find that there are parasites that live on by syphoning the energy out of a host they get into and make their offspring by this way or control the host and just leave enough energy to let the host function to feed itself and with that the parasite as well but eventually the host will perish in this case as well.
In nature the different species don't have the same consciousness as we humans have so they operate on instincts alone as far as i know.
With that we can compare Jews in their nature to parasites with the difference that humans live and operate not on instincts alone thus the Jews will do their best to invade the host(country/position whatever you want to call it) and will do the same exact thing as parasites do. Sometimes the host will immediately perish if their goals desire it or they'll carry out long term plans in the host to weaken and eventually subvert it/ take control of it,effectively killing the host.
Thus to solve the problem you have to get rid of the parasite to stop them. If humanity ever reaches an era where it can settle down on another planet the parasites shouldn't be brought along or the same thing will happen on that planet as well.
Yes,you can argue about semantics and all the fucking shit you want all day like how not all jews the same,etc. but if you examine the problem(because they are a big fucking problem) from the point of nature and how we humans are just another species on the planet you can come to this conclusion.

>>246685
Since we are humans and have consciousness that means we can solve problems that would endanger the species as a whole but the parasites don't care about that and want to do their own thing. Because of this humans as a species don't need parasites to control them in any way shape or form thus making them harmful.

>>246674
Proof of that claim required.

>>246667
>Because such people are usually smart enough to not flash their Jewishness in front of everyone, it's usually a guessing game at times
>Names of course are one method but facial structure is another way. The best way is genealogy but it's the hardest to get info
But that's the thing about Jews, for them its not a guessing game. Whether its the occasionally and deliberately dropped hebrew term, commonalities in dress/jewelry, or symbols that might adorn one's car, they have ways of designating themselves to one another that are subtle enough to pass unnoticed except to those who are sufficiently initiated and/or versed.
It is the same as how police, fire, and EMTs, Military, etc. have signs and modes of recognition.
As pertains to jews, they don't have to engage one another to verify who/what/where, and by that I'm not suggesting/pushing the "All jews are in a conspiracy" fallacy, I'm saying that when jews interact with one another and society, they will preference and favor one another. This happens with co-workers and/or job applicants (and promotions), I'd wager it further happens with academia (admissions, grades, etc., and could be suggested to happen further throughout society (think public grants, political assistance on a local/county/state/national level, and plenty of others).
>it's really hard because a lot of them don't have a wikipedia article, let alone profile pictures and information about family.
Not to mention that zionists in many cases aren't jewish at all, have no surnames, and otherwise appear to have nothing to do with jews and/or israel.

>Jews have their own white ethno group
No, they are simply semitic people who have interbred enough with white people and swarthy people that it becomes harder to detect them. Whites have become gradually compromised where there's also less a basis of comparison.

>the negative impacts that Jews have had on western civilization is mostly a result of elite Jews, not all Jews

Ah, the "not all" argument. You can apply that to muslims and niggers too. There are ALWAYS exceptions.

At the core though, you are looking at a religion centered around the practice of slicing off the flesh of a newborn boy's penis and then having a bearded rabbi putting that newborn baby boy's bloody penis into his mouth and rubbing his tongue up and down that baby boy's penis.

Adult Jews all know this at some level and accept it and do not try to change it. Even if most children are ignorant of it, once they learn they are conditioned to accept it and not oppose it. It shows they have an apathy towards morality.

Not only that, but to divert attention from their atrocities, they go after non-sadistic instances of heterosexual relationships between men and fertile ovulating pubescent girls and condemn that as being pedophilia, so that people will be so focused on that, they won't notice the true nepiophilic sadist abuser lurking in the shadows.

>>246282
>seems to argue that Jews, specifically, are the primary cause of the decline of Western civilization and that their removal, whether through physical relocation or extermination, will arrest this decline and even reverse it

Who specifically is arguing that decline will stop solely through removing them? To use a lion king analogy: Jews are Scar and other problems are hyenas.

There will still be hyenas around even if Scar is gone, but they won't be as coordinated for murdering lions in direct battle, or sabotaging lion prides from within. Just because there will still by hyenas to deal with doesn't mean you don't prioritize Scar.