/mlpol/ - My Little Politics

>>212240
Women need guidance by men. Its already a full time job to be a mother, why should they have to work another job? So their children can be raised by the state? Lauren faust making cartoon ponies seems more like an entertainment hobby than a career. I dont see anything wrong with women having hobbies.

>>212264
missing the forest for the tree I see. How many stallions do you see in this image of Equestrian authority

>>212240
It's almost like fictional women aren't required to behave like real women do, and so a lot of people want a universe where they're better than they are here.
There's no hypocrisy in wanting a different world than the one we've got.

>>212272
But there is a hypocracy in saying women are bad for wanting the same thing you want, which absolutely happens when it is brought up that being inferior blows. The thread will be filled with salty posts talking about how real mothers and wives are something to be idolized but no one ever really does. accusations that a woman who desires to be more than this is met with sneering derision that anyone could want to go do something.

Usually to the tune of "I hate my job"
As though dissatisfaction with the job is supposed to erase the fact that its probably just not the job they really want, rather than that they;d rather be a house daddy. If we as a group want more for women, why deride the mutual interest and why not instead work towards that biological (crispr, not feminism) equality? Even if that isn't a solution we can employ right now doesn't change the fact that anyone without a Y chromosome who wants it is portrayed as damaged.

My headcanon has been that stallions are simply quite rare, to the point where it's unreasonable to expect a housewife/labourer division.

>hypocracy
We can't exactly change the show, and anything set in equestria can only change so much.

FWIW I've read enough romfics/greens where the waifu turns trad

>>212278
your welcome to rec some. I haven't seen a single one. let alone one where the woman acknowledges its 'time to settle down'

>we can't exactly change the show
Alternate universe and other divergence green text and fics are not rare.

>>212275
>for wanting the same thing you want
They do not. Many people like to claim that men and women are the same or want the same things, but the great bulk of men and women have quite different desires and values than each other. While some particular individual women may have similar desires and values to the average man, that doesn't mean that we should be encouraging the great bulk of them to do things that only a rare few have any real desire or ability to do.
I shouldn't have to specify this, but for clarity I'll point out that does not mean that women should be inherently barred from typical manly pursuits, but they sure as tartarus shouldn't be actively encouraged into them.
>a woman who desires to be more than this
Being in some fancy hard-ass career or whatever is not "more" than being a mother, it is different.
This is the problem. White women are being told over and over that being a mother is lesser than slaving away to make the elites even more wealthy, and encouraged to spend their best childbearing years doing anything other than having children.
>work towards that biological (crispr ...) equality
Priorities. We are, as a race, on the verge of extinction if current trends continue. Some hypothetical sci-fi utopia is not something we should be putting energy towards when those with power are actively trying to wipe us out. End the giant threat before engaging in such extremely speculative endeavors.
Especially since everything in biology seems to have many, many, effects tangled together, and it may not even be possible to alter only personality without drastically changing anything else.
>anyone without a Y chromosome who wants it is portrayed as damaged.
No. Many of them may be damaged, but that is because society, as mentioned, is actively encouraging everyone to do the exact opposite of the healthy drives they have, and instead encouraging counter behaviors and the worst of the drives we have. In a healthy society, the occasional odd person out wouldn't be an issue. But we are not in a healthy society, and so most of the people trying to go against the average drives have been driven to that by external forces, not by their own individual personality.

>>212298
>I'm not going to listen to anything you really said.
Please read what I wrote instead of what you wanted to jack off to. I wrote it with all due respect to you and I don't appreciate you taking it out of context.

>>212301
I did read it. It's possible I missed an overarching point you where trying to make or something, but if so, just say what that point was instead of whining about your feelings:
>and I don't appreciate you taking it out of context.
If you have time to write that completely unhelpful complaint, then you have time to point out what you think I missed instead of writing such a vague and passive-aggressive post.

>>212308
4chan as a whole has trained me to understand that this is always fucking futile but since you claim to be receptive I'll give it a shot.
The overarching point as it were, is that your fantasies line up with with egalitarian ideals consistently but you deride women who also want those things as being broken.

Instead you criticized my post on a societal behavior level, which is beyond the scope of its content entirely, and even outright rejected its premise, that mlpol even gratifies these "different pursuits" by different amounts. It's outright ridiculous. There is clearly far more content portraying mlp as an idealized feminist utopia than the inverse. If you want to say this isn't the case, spend more time with the nor/mlp/eople and you will quickly see that you are wrong. If you have no patience to even deal with hypothetical I'm not sure why you are even replying to the thread. It seems like every time I construct a dilemma around this topic to get some kind of explanation, you go through all kinds of contortions to avoid answering it.

The whole point is to address why snubbing of noses happens for women who want nothing more than the same thing as the majority of the people here do; a world full of women who are as competent as they are loyal. So far the only thing you've said that is pertinent to that is that such a show is unhealthy and encourages against the natural order. That would put you in the position of explaining why ponies or anime are red-pilled or otherwise not completely degenerate.

A woman can be 'strong' and still have a traditional role. Children need a firm hand to control them, lest they become unbearable shits. Finances require strength to not blow the budget on shoes or some other frivolity. Defense is better if two are able to participate; the wife, defending the children, the husband making a more active resistance to the threat. Business could either be run from the home, or children left with extended family if they absolutely had to work elsewhere. Heck, quite a bit of work can be done via the internet these days. There really does need to be an effort to encourage marriage early, as the later a woman waits, the higher the likelihood of some manner of trouble with either the pregnancy or the child. Chasing that career will only leave her childless and using pets as surrogate children.

>>212363
>I'm also not going to listen to anything you just said.
Jesus it just never ends. see >>212301
Why do men have such incredible trouble addressing a single hypothetical topic? This is way too many threads to be mere coincidence. It's like you lack abstract thinking, which makes no sense.

>>212368
The fuck are you talking about? I came into the thread and shared my opinions. Did I even point at anything you posted?

I was considering going back and reading the thread more thoroughly, but your attitude certainly makes me think twice about what sort of cesspool I'd be wading into.

>Why do men have such incredible trouble addressing a single hypothetical topic?
>Why do men
Ah. I see. Either a shill, white knight, or feminist.
A paid disrupter, someone that thinks if they put the pussy on a pedestal they'll get laid, or a female supremacist.

Why should I bother giving you the time of day? Your attitude will make you more enemies than friends in life, and only make people dig in, rather than potentially changing someone's mind.

>>212375
>reading the thread more thoroughly
Everything you'd have needed to know is in the op.
>I can't believe you are so rude, I just came in and started sharing my opinions
Apparently without listening to what I was even saying, do you see how this could cause arguments?
>Hurr shill shill shill shill shill
Please fuck off back to wherever you came from, you obviously don't like weebshit or horse pussy if this is your reaction to a reasonable question.

>>212379
Mossad Nigel, why are you accusing people who disagree with you of being a shill in a pony thread?

>>212382
>people who disagree with you
You have made it abundantly clear you do not even know what I think.
>mossad
funny joke, all I've been hearing from shills in this board is how mossad is totally not real guiz. let me guess, is this another transparent attempt to change the topic away from your illiteracy?

>>212383
Since you're new here, here's a quick rundown.
Nigel is a particular Mlpol poster who had made himself notorious with his unwarranted pompousness and abysmal argumentation style. Until now he possessed the title of most most insufferable Mlpol poster, but I'm pleased to inform you that you have officially usurped the throne from him. To honor you for this, and in honor of the outgoing title-holder, you've been given the interim moniker of "Mossad Nigel", because its readily apparent that its (you) posting even if you're not raving about Mossad.
Congratulations, you must be so proud.

>>212387
>hurf durf ur annoying like this guy who hates mossad
Imagine unironically defending Israel on /pol/
>also you're definitely that same guy
okay whatever you say.

>>212392
Yep. You've earned the name of "Mossad Nigel" alright

>>212400
(you)

So thats 1/6 people even willing to talk about the topic

I hope toothpaste returns at some point

>>212240
>>212272 Basically this, but to properly elaborate on it:
A man's ideal woman, what a waifu often represents, likely isn't going to be what's best for him in reality, what would work best in a long term committed relationship, or what would simply actually work out well in the case of children.
In fantasy, sure, it could work out. They could have children without having to sacrifice too much of the lifestyles they enjoy, or change their attitude and approach to adversity, and they'd live happily ever after. But in reality, reality would get in the way, in every possible way you can imagine, and have probably seen or heard of happening.
Another example of this is the infamous idea that "Nice guys finish last", that legitimately nice guys and "nice guys" alike lament.
Women will say that they want a nice guy who's sensitive and a good listener, and who treats them well, etc, (insert generic good partner trait here). But those aren't the men that excite them, sexually and otherwise.
What they mean(generally) is, "I'll settle for that guy once the men that really excite me stop calling, or I don't manage to tie one of them down, and get a long term commitment with him to work." It's what the best choice is in reality, the one that makes the most sense, but not the one they'd take if their ideal could work without a hitch.
It might not be what people want, but it's what's probably best for them, and for society at large. In particular, when making a family, it seems to be what's best for the well being and mental health of the children during their formative years.
(the "nice guys" are really only angry because they committed themselves to embodying that archetype, sincerely or otherwise, and no other form of self-improvement or general building of a personality or character, only to find out that not only is that not enough, but the "nice guy" archetype wasn't even what would score them a gf.)

I've gotta be honest, speaking just of my own preferences, I don't know if I've ever really been attracted to the good housewife archetype. In the pic you posted in the OP, seeing all those characters in the kitchen, wearing similar clothing and an apron, all filling the same role, appearing so uniform...it's a huge turn off to me.
The thought of putting all those characters into such a generic, simple role, with no signs of their personality seeming to affect the way they act or go about their business, or even their appearance...it's really off-putting to me. Like trying to put a round peg through a square hole.
even if it can go through, it doesn't really fit, it doesn't click.

>>212433
I don't think you really listened to what I had to say but you did better than most of the people here. You certainly articulated how it feels, how most people here seem to feel, when they see this blunt reality and how bleak it is.

What I wanted to know is why, knowing that, women are sneared at for sharing similar desires? Repeating that its bad, consiquences happen, is missing the entire point of the question. Why get angry when someone wants the same thing that you do? Is having fantasies like this bad for all of us? Why deny this is unfortunate even if we aren't cut out to build bridges? Because I gaurentee you most of the time that's exactly the response I get; you're a fool and disgusting broken person for ever wanting more. I'm not gonna fight hard to say theyre wrong, I just don't understand where the anger comes from when they want it too.

>>212339
>deride women who also want those things as being broken.
I'll skip over the "literally where is anyone doing that" for now, and instead point out the key part that egalitarians/feminists/whatevers, from what I've seen, do not actually want people to be equal in any behavioral or psychological sense, they want identical treatment of people that they believe are already innately the same (and that's ignoring the activists who are instead straight up manhaters or whitehaters). But in a world where the sexes and races are not the same (which appears to be the world we live in), treating them as if they were actually the same is going to result in a bad time, just as would acting in any other way which was contrary to reality.
And while I do know of a few self-identified feminists who do actually think that men and women are innately different, and who want a society that respects and encourages both to be their best, I doubt very much that they're who you mean, as they're a fairly small part of an already very niche group that is probably hated about as strongly as mlpol is.
And I doubt that anyone here wants total behavioral equality either, probably just enough that the majority of men and women could properly understand each other's values and ideals reasonably well and be able to have actual respect for each other, instead of the pussyfooting and kowtowing that gets called "respect" by modern society.
If you want anything more concrete than that, you're going to have to point out specific things that specific people said, and then ask those specific people why they said those specific things.
>There is clearly far more content portraying mlp as an idealized feminist utopia than the inverse.
I wouldn't say "idealized feminist utopia" per se, but nobody's denying that in MLP the sexes and pony races seem very close in cognitive ability, outlook on life, and strength of character, so I'm really not sure what you're on about here. Fictional worlds are not going to be the same as reality, which is why people can like things in fiction that go against what they believe our reality is like, because the two are different places. Sometimes very different.
>construct a dilemma around this topic to get some kind of explanation
All of which have been rather vague statements with no specific examples of either the characters, the real people, or the comments in question. And as such, I have only been able to give fairly generic answers dealing mostly with the obvious divide between reality and fiction.
>snubbing of noses happens for women who want ... a world full of women who are as competent as they are loyal.
You're really going to have to give specific examples of this occurring. While I am relatively new here, it's still been quite a few months, and I have not seen mention of any such group that's encouraging women to be competent and loyal, and I certainly haven't seen anyone bashing such a group. The most I've seen is people who think that most women in our world are really not like that.
So the only things I can think of that you might be referring to are either the groups of people (i.e. egalitarians, feminists, etc) who think that everyone is already the same, or (and I'd put this one as very unlikely) there's a possibility that you mean something like "islam encourages women to be competent and loyal, and you're bashing islam".
But since you've not given any specifics, I have no way to figure out what you mean here.
>is that such a show is unhealthy and encourages against the natural order. That would put you in the position of explaining...
That's not at all what I meant. I was talking about our real world societies there.
And while I do not believe that a show designed for little girls that features colorful talking ponies with rainbow laser beams is going to be any significant behavioral example for anyone, MLP (at least through season four, which is as far as I've gotten) certainly does not encourage people to neglect having families, or to engage in drug use, or casual sex, or to give in to pressure from peers or authority figures, or anything of that nature. Whereas current western society strongly encourages all of those.
And even the bit where MLP has mares going on adventures and the like, they are not being told by society that they must go do those things instead of raising a family or anything, they are doing them because they want to help their friends and neighbors. And, another key thing, is that the mares in question are, indeed, quite capable of handling themselves on the adventures, and there are never any demands that standards be lowered so they can participate, or anything else of that nature.
Take the wonderbolt training camp in season three, for example. Lightning Dust and Rainbow Dash happen to be the best ponies there, but it is a case of hard work paying off, not a case of "those mean stallions where keeping us down" or anything.

>>212435
>egalitarian and feminists
I suppose, I mostly meant fence sitters, people who actually watch and enjoy weebshit and ponies aren't from what I know, bluepilled little shits.
>who I mean
If I'm gonna be completely honest, I mostly mean myself, but it's not like I'm the only one that I've seen accept the truth but revved up those face palms for the way people on pol act when I simply put the reality in stark terms. since I mostly came to be a pol regular only after mlpol, I've been bombarded by cute ponies and dyke weeb girls and have never been given an explination for why theres a consistant duality of hatred and love for these things. It'd be one thing if people where honest about it, but most of the time as you can see up here people will do just about anything to avoid talking about this. It matters a lot to me because I feel completely isolated and split brained from liking these things and knowing its all bullshit. And like a moth to flame, every now and then I can't help trying to get some kind of solid answer on why people do this shit. how they reconcile the disparate differences. Do they imagine equestria is just more redpilled than it really is? do they imagine convincing twilight to stop going on dangerous friendship adventures and settle down? Leave the fighting to the celestial army and stallions?

>All of which have been rather vague statements with no specific examples of either the characters, the real people, or the comments in question. And as such, I have only been able to give fairly generic answers dealing mostly with the obvious divide between reality and fiction.
we aren't talking about reality though. we're only talking about fantasy, dreams, what we want, not how people are acting.
>You're really going to have to give specific examples of this occurring
do you
Even
Watch
The
Show?
>That's not at all what I meant. I was talking about our real world societies there.
and just like I've been telling everyone else for hours. I don't really care about that. it's not what I'm interested in knowing. I dont understand why you default to this when I'm clearly not asking about it. It's like some kind of cognitive dissonance or double think. It honestly seems like I'm making you think of something uncomfortable, so you instantly move to a completely superficial tangent where you can be right and lecture me on something.
>mlp does not
But mlp does encourage high risk high reward activity for women, encourage them to face adversity head on and without male oversight or insistence, portrays the highest consideration of authorities as female, and do not show an archetype of pony that wants to legitimately be a mother, settle down, and start a family.

>those mean stallions where keeping us down
you mean like the bullies and fluttershy? I don't see the standard things in there no, but I think there is enough to be said for a lack of male representation in that upper echelon. Young audiences aren't going to know any better, they aren't going to think "I just have to get strong as a man somehow" they're going to think "I am gonna go on adventures and it's going to be so much fun" because everything in society in the show and real life is pumping them full of cultural icons that tell them they can do just that.

>>212437
>do they imagine convincing twilight to stop going on dangerous friendship adventures and settle down? Leave the fighting to the celestial army and stallions?
It's a fictional world ruled by immortal magical beings. The standards that nature enforces here are not necessarily going to be in play in Equestria.
As one example, race mixing is not actually a problem in MLP, because even when two different pony races mate, they do not create some sort of hybrid offspring, they instead produce properly functional offspring that are of a specific race and have all the proper biological attributes of that specific race. Mr. and Ms. Cake, for instance. are both earth ponies, but their offspring are a unicorn and a pegasus. In MLP, race "mixing" doesn't exist, because there is no mixing. The races come out pure even from what we would consider a mixed marriage.
Fiction is different than reality.
>we aren't talking about reality though. we're only talking about fantasy, dreams, what we want, not how people are acting.
Your entire first post was about a perceived hypocrisy in how posters on mlpol (and other imageboards) were acting in regards to the roles of real women vs fictional ones! Reality is literally half of the conversation!
>snubbing of noses happens for women who want … a world full of women who are as competent as they are loyal.
>do you Even Watch The Show?
Are you now claiming that somepony in the show itself is snubbing women who want competent and loyal women? That would make no damned sense, but I can't think of any other way to interpret that sentence that makes any sense either.
Is this some bullshit from season 5+? Is one of us having a stroke? Did I end up in the Twilight Zone on my drive home?
Point out a specific instance of this snubbing happening, wherever or whatever it is, and maybe someone will have some bloody clue what in tartarus you're talking about.
>It honestly seems like I'm making you think of something uncomfortable, so you instantly move to a completely superficial tangent
Have you considered the possibility that maybe you're just not making any Celestia banished sense to anyone other than yourself? Because at this point I'm pretty sure that you either are unfortunately incapable of properly expressing your point, or that you don't actually have a coherent point.

>>212240
Because when actual women try to be men in the real world, society collapses. In fiction, you can hand wave that away as much as you like. You sound like a shill that can't tell the difference between fiction AND reality.

>>212240
>Is there harm in showing young women a world where their actions matter?
Of course not. Women are needed for a society to function, after all.
>A world where they are better off free and decisive instead of controlled and nurtured?
When a woman spends her most important years whoring herself out on the cock carousel, getting AIDS and destroying her ability to pair bond, is she free? When a woman is given actual guidance in what a good and moral woman is, is she controlled?
>And if we think the latter is the way a good society should be built, why is there no drive for a regular gender role equestria?
RGRE is literally just a male feminist faggot's escapist fantasy. A world where he imagines himself as the pampered, privileged, desired stay-at-home do-nothing layabout while his wife does all the heavy lifting, breadwinning, and sex.
It's the creation of a faggy man fantasizing about being a pretty girl lusted over and courted by the mane six.
Yes, it would be awesome if a man's wife was the strongest, fastest, coolest, and most beautiful and fertile woman on the planet.
But women aren't strong, fast, cool, or even all that beautiful any more, and they've lost all interest in being fertile until after they've passed their prime.
The lie that people of both genders can be equal? An impossible fantasy, because women can't compete with men without the aid of feminist armies holding men back, damaging the development of boys, and abusing their own power and the lenience and patience of men.
Women will never be as good at men. Not in morality, virtue, or work ethic. Great fictional women can inspire little girls to be slightly better than their slutty peers, but that's it.
Our society crumbled when we told women it's hard to be a woman and easier to try and fail to be a man.
Our society crumbled when we indulged and encouraged the boys who realized their lives would be much easier if they were women.
In the real world, men don't sneer at women who say "I want to do something big and important! I wanna be the best!". Men cheer her on, support her, and bend over backwards to aid her. And then she fails anyway unless thousands of other feminist women are pulling their tiny percentage of the weight a few men could pull better.
Women are not oppressed in reality.
Gender roles are not oppressive for women, they're oppressive for men. They tell men they must be workers, teachers, and fathers, to earn the affections of women, while women simply have to be loyal and kind baby factories.
Women couldn't manage that, so they became worthless sluts instead.
Women don't make good musicians, fighters, runners, lifters, politicians, role models, or single parents.
RGRE isn't a feminist's fantasy, it's a cucked male feminist's "If I respect women enough, they'll be like good men and treat me like a good woman" fantasy.
It's the fantasy that women in power aren't doing their best to stop men from succeeding.
It's the fantasy that when women take over completely, things won't get worse, but will instead get better because women can take from men the burden of being a man.
It's literally a step below Displaced in terms of faggy wish-fulfillment AUs that make a mockery of the show's content and characters.
Why? Because at least in that faggy fantasy, you're a convention-visiting faggot who bought the final piece of his anime character costume at a convention and overpaid like a little bitch, earning the right to be teleported to Equestria with the body and powers of that fictional character, increasing your desirability in the eyes of mares.
In RGRE? The fantasy is that simply being born male is enough to make you desirable in the eyes of mares.
It's the "Only man who's pampered and protected and fed and fucked in a village of buff amazon dominatrix women" fantasy rebranded for a new era. Nothing more.

>>212452
>Are you now claiming that somepony in the show itself is snubbing women who want competent and loyal women?
I'm going to stop replying to your posts because you are illiterate.

>>212519
>When a woman spends her most important years whoring herself out on the cock carousel, getting AIDS and destroying her ability to pair bond, is she free? When a woman is given actual guidance in what a good and moral woman is, is she controlled?
no one in equestria is given actual guidance from men
>Women will never be as good at men. Not in morality, virtue, or work ethic. Great fictional women can inspire little girls to be slightly better than their slutty peers, but that's it.
I would argue it does more than inspire women to be slightly better. It encourages life choices that are not productive to motherhood
>In the real world, men don't sneer at women who say "I want to do something big and important! I wanna be the best!". Men cheer her on, support her, and bend over backwards to aid her.
I don't care becuase I am asking you guys about something that occurs on these boards, please pay attention
>Gender roles are not oppressive for women, they're oppressive for men. They tell men they must be workers, teachers, and fathers, to earn the affections of women, while women simply have to be loyal and kind baby factories.
they are oppressive to both. Men take more risk, women are not allowed to risk. that is the key difference.
>RGRE isn't a feminist's fantasy,
You are clearly missing the fact that equestria is a feminist fantasy by hyper focusing on tangents just like every other poster so far. It was literally the creation of a feminist to show young girls that they can be any kind of girl they want.
>In RGRE? The fantasy is that simply being born male is enough to make you desirable in the eyes of mares.
you seem to have nothing but contempt for this concept, so theres no way, after ignoring the entire content of what I have posted to follow the less offensive to your sentiments bunnies I'm ever going to believe you seriously respect anyone who does this. You made it crystal clear with your autisming on RGRE, one fucking general out of hundreds who feature career or high risk high reward behavior for their waifus, that this kind of life is garbage.

>>212240
One of the things I like about MLP, regardless of whether or not it was intentional on the part of Faust or any of the writers, is that the cutie marks represent a sort of determinism or fatalism, the idea that the meaning of life is to find and live in consonance with one's purpose in the world, rather than pursue ambition for its own sake. It is a very ancient and traditionalist way of looking at life and the individual's role within it, and stands in direct contrast with the values of the modern world. The show has adopted a more individualist, "chase your dreams" kind of message as the seasons have progressed (or degenerated, depending on how you look at it), but the world mythos established early on, most significantly the character backstories of how they all got their cutie marks, is about finding purpose rather than chasing dreams. The difference between the two concepts is significant.

"Chasing a dream" is basically the pursuit of a desire for its own sake. Wanting to be a Manehattan fashionista or a Princess of Canterlot would be an example of chasing a dream. Finding purpose is less about obtaining a specific result as it is about figuring out what your reason for living is, and what you care about more than anything else. A desire to create beautiful clothing or to pursue knowledge for its own sake would be an example of purpose. A dream is a "what," a purpose is a "why." The difference is that a dream can either be obtained or it can't, usually due to circumstances beyond the dreamer's control, and even fulfillment of the dream doesn't guarantee the dreamer's happiness. A purpose is something that defines your values and priorities regardless of the circumstances you find yourself in.

In MLP lore, a pony is born into the world with a blank flank. As they experience life, they eventually discover some reason for being, and once they do, they get a cutie mark representing it. Whatever course of action they take from there is ultimately up to them (and subject to the limitations of circumstance), but before attempting to do anything, they have to figure out who they are and what it is most important to them. It's not important what you end up doing with your talents, it's important to know who you are and what you care about. You have to figure that out before doing anything, because just blindly going after something that you want without understanding why you want it won't make you happy.

Fluttershy cares about animals, that's the key to who Fluttershy is. She doesn't need to run her own animal sanctuary or whatever the fuck they're having her do now in order to live in accordance with that purpose, she could just as easily be a mom or a wife as long as she gets to take care of animals. I personally think she would make a fantastic mom. Rarity clearly has a talent for fashion, and maybe running her own Manehattan fashion empire is the life she wants. Or, maybe she'll do it for a while and realize that she spends more time on the minutiae of running a business than she does making clothes, that the life of a big-city professional who works 60+ hours a week is empty and joyless, and that she misses her friends and family back in Ponyville. Maybe she'll decide that she'd be happier moving back home and making clothing for her friends or her sister (or her husband or children). Twilight didn't set out to become a princess, she devoted herself to books and study out of a simple joy for learning. She was probably happier (and was definitely more interesting) when she was just a spergy neet living in a tree library, and most Twifags I've met seem to overwhelmingly prefer the pre-wing version of her. Applejack's purpose doesn't even lend itself to the pursuit of a big wacky dream, she finds her zen simply through farm work and being close to her family, which is a concept the progressive writers clearly can't even wrap their heads around. Any guy who waifus any of these ponies will tell you that these are the aspects of her character he's drawn to, not the fact that she's a princess or a fashion designer or whatever the fuck. Just because a guy wants a traditional waifu who will cook his dinner and take care of his kids doesn't mean he wants an empty Stepford wife with no interests or passions.

Really, one of the worst aspects of modernism and postmodernism is its emphasis on career as being the key to personal happiness. A small handful of people have careers that bring genuine meaning to their life, most people just have jobs. And in the end, you can achieve your dreams and still be miserable. Most jobs, even your dream job, will suck the life out of you eventually. By contrast, even someone with a pedestrian or boring job that they absolutely hate can still find happiness if the job supports a family that loves them and makes it all worthwhile. Hence the "do it for her" memes that we've all seen. This is why men find feminism so exasperating: the idea that women are exempted from the soul-crushing drudgery of a career and still complain about it like they've somehow been given the short end of the stick is just incomprehensible to us.

Ultimately, what specifically you choose to do with your life is far less important than understanding who you are and living with in accordance with that purpose. Friends, family and community matter more than job titles or social status. I guess that's my interpretation of the message that Faust was attempting to communicate to young girls. I could be wrong I guess, but I don't think I am.

>>212572
Thankyou for responding to the content in full. I have several questions but over all I am dumb founded that it took 30+ posts to get to something like this. No matter where it goes from here, I appreciated it.

Ultimately I agree mostly about what you said, finding life and fulfillment in their job doesn't gaurentee happiness. In fact, that very basis is part of what divorces me from understanding the idea of careers as being some kind of, for lack of a better term, philosophical cancer for women to pursue. I don't think we fall too far from eachother on gender roles here, but what I hear harped on so much again and again is about happiness. "but I hate my job" "youd hate your job." "A job will suck the life out of you." and etc. These stand in contrast to what you said about being a step ford wife with no drive or passions. But this is exactly what is necessary from a red pilled society. Women must give up agency entirely and focus only on the home and the family. the second we step away from that, the problems start to occur. We've all been over that in this thread so I don't want to bore you with it but the reason I bring it up is that the focus on those things vs their passions is always framed IN that order for what a woman should be focusing on.

But the show does things in reverse order. These mares are primarily focusing on their passions first, not their family. The exception of course is Applejack, but even she doesn't approach things from submission and obedience to a patriarch. Her circumstance while not wholly uncommon is born almost entirely of a family tragedy, making her something of an outlier. Even then she takes on the muscle and face of her family, despite Big Mac. If one in six women focused on their family first we would be fucked.

Twilight, Fluttershy, Rarity, Rainbowdash, and Pinkie pie could in theory have tons of opportunities to practice their hobbies every now and then inbetween busily running a family. I don't disagree at all. But despite that apparent opportunity they don't seem all that interested in it do they? they are using the prime of their lives to devote themselves to tasks that in the real world most women will be bad at. Running a business, getting involved in the government, living with and working with wild dangerous animals that can easily kill you, high octane stunt piloting or military depending on how you see the wonderbolts. These are what our little waifus decided to spend their time on. The prime fertile years of their lives no less.

I definately have never seen having a career as the path to happiness. Not for its own sake. And I definitely agree that the western world does nothing but glorify it that way including somewhat in this show. MLP is special in that it grounds that romance, but it remains completely in the clouds as far as gender and goal setting is concerned. The concept of Samsara lends itself best even as it makes a mockery of my point. I don't see a career as a path to happiness so much as an escape from suffering. Being driven to accomplish something of great worth to society, family, humanity, or even for yourself, is one of the most charismatic traits men can possess. And it can be easily argued that most women have never done that except in the most animal fashion. Our contributions are so inadequate that they are soon to be mechanized entirely.

Yet every pony, even the most family orientated applejack has that. They have a purpose. Something individual and personal. And their life punishes them for it. It throws them right into the shit, and often hits them with problems that can't be resolved in the way they wanted. But theys tick with it. They are _allowed_ to suffer, and use that hardship's opportunity to accomplish great things. In our world things are different because women as a group are almost all universally incapable of this. I wouldn't consider myself any different, so much as finally aware that what I am reaching for cannot be obtained by women. We do not have the IQ, drive, bravery, or muscle, to take on anything _But_ the very shadow of stepford drudgery that you depict as being something no guy really wants. There's a _reason_ 2d is superior to 3d. You can name any exceptions you like, but exceptions prove the rule, and I don't think its too outragious either to suggest that feminism at least in some places began precisely because men found their cabin fever waifus in the 1800s unbearable and didn't particularly feel like spending time with something like that when they could be out enjoying themselves. And the poorfags didn't even much of a home to be mom of.

I fully believe that things would be worse for men if they didn't have the old ball and chain since the provider instinct is real, but it's clear among a lot of people here that they want more than what we're capable of. They want women who are passionate and capable of taking risks, of being brave and loyal. They want mares, they like Rarity _because_ she spends those long hours just to see the smile on their friends faces, they like her because she's dual specked into fashion and resource excavation, even though it would be a tragedy for society if women emulated her. Both because we are less competent, and because it takes time away from raising the next generation.

In the end I don't think the question is fully explained. There's definitely still a clear dissonance between equestria and our casual worship of it, and the exasperated anger and question dodging when women covet the abilities and life styles of these random feminist role models turned into a form that does not exist in real space. much like your game

I don't see why wishing for more than this itself, acting on it aside, results in the kind of saltiness that occurs. To me its the equivalent of trump making anime or equestria real. I don't know if its wise or even has an explanation, but my want to understand it loses me sleep.

>>212561
I have no respect for someone who thinks not liking a concept invalidates your opinion on it.
Honestly, what the fuck are you, a Glimmernigger?
It isn't a personal bias or an ideological position contradicted by this idea that makes me dislike the concept of an "Idealized feminist and cucked men fantasy world where all women are competent and all men are treated like the prettiest girls" fantasy getting shoved into a pony setting.
It's a rational realization that RGRE has no artistic or literary merit. You certainly don't have any political merit.
You can write a fanfic where you're a cool boy who all the cool ladies want (especially the cool lady you want) WITHOUT having to warp the setting so that all boys are desired by default, no matter how lame they might be.
I'd sooner slog through a hundred "BDSM Planet where it's a part of country-wide/planet-wide law" stories than one more RGRE story.
This concept is just a masturbatory fantasy for weak men and weak women. Why are you acting like you desperately want to be given the old "You're so pretty and funny and smart, and all of your ideas are so great!" lie?

>>212735
>REEEEE MORE RGRE
you really are obsessed aren't you. why don't you go up to the top of the thread again and reread the topic achmed.

>>212737
>not liking a thing makes you an obsessed
are you a Star Wars fan or what

>>212737
Also, are you a woman?

>>212740
You know the rules nigel, there are no woman on the internet.

>>212392

Id also like to point out, according to an independent Onlooker, we should keep an Eye on Io]ID 6943b aka our new "friend" Mossad Nigel.

He is pootraying explicit Shill behavior. I would strongly suggest Administration looks into his posting history. Something is fishy here.

>>212743
no one wants to see Chris's titties m8

>>212770

why dont you love CWCs voluptuous titties Anon?

>>212741
I know, hence why I'm treating the obvious woman like this.
You can tell from the way she types: Vapid, shallow, convinced that people who oppose her are ignorant and wrong, convinced people are only truly engaging with the thread if they do so "Properly". That is, in the manner she wants. She also responds well to those who change the subject completely while talking in a manner she likes.
Female NPCs are dumb.

>>212841
>>212735
>>212740
God dammit Nigel.

>>212687
Anyway, on the blind hope that your thread isn't completely derailed at this point, your response actually made me think about this in a way that hadn't occurred to me before. From what I've been able to piece together from the leaked show bible and what I've heard from /mlp/ anons since this whole crazy merger went into effect, Faust basically wanted to create a show for girls that would convey some kind of positive self-development message and wouldn't be the typical sort of Barbie princess stuff that little girls' shows usually are. Her objection to the Barbie stuff, I imagine, is the usual feminist complaint, that it gives girls an unrealistic standard to live up to and harms their self esteem and all of that. However, from what you're saying, it sounds like MLP may ultimately have created an even more unrealistic standard for girls to live up to, along with the accidental side effect of becoming masturbation fuel for males who probably have too many escapist hobbies and weird fetishes already. Poor Lauren might actually have a gun to her head from knowing what she created, no wonder she doesn't want fuck-all to do with MLP at this point.

All jokes aside, the whole "2D is better than 3D" thing and waifuism in general might actually be a good example of why Plato argued that artists should be expelled from society. He basically believed that the physical world is just a pale reflection of a deeper reality. Since works of art are just idealized representations of physical things, he felt that art turns people's attention away from the deeper reality and towards the fantasy created by the artist, mistakenly believing that the fantasy is actually the deeper reality. Basically, what he was describing is waifuism in a nutshell. A man, who either wants a woman and can't get one or is dissatisfied with the women he's able to get, instead of turning his attention to higher things or higher senses of purpose (or at least exercising a little and learning to talk without being a complete sperg), directs his energy into a fictional relationship with an idealized woman that does not and cannot exist. What I'd never thought of before is that girls might actually have a similar problem from the opposite end; that they might feel stuck in a catch 22, where they can't find happiness through individual pursuit the way feminism teaches them that they can, but also can't live up to the fantasies that men project onto them.

Ultimately I think all of this stuff: MLP, anime, waifus, women's unrealistic expectations for themselves, men's unrealistic expectations of women, etc, are symptoms of the decadent age we live in. Most of our ideas about love, self and happiness are rooted in notions of sentimentality and romanticism that didn't really exist prior to the industrial revolution. I think MLP, no matter how much we all may like it or what lessons we may extract from it, is still a reflection of those ideas on some level and thus has a lot wrong with it. I think the moral of the story overall is that cartoons are fun, waifus are an okay fantasy, and escapism won't hurt you in reasonable doses. But, hobbies are not a substitute for real life, and a children's cartoon created by feminists working in tandem with a toy company should definitely not be a person's primary source of spiritual fulfillment or moral guidance, or at least should be taken with a grain of salt.

As the world has devolved from a hierarchy ruled by kings to a democracy ruled by commoners, the focus of life has gone from the pursuit of duty to the pursuit of happiness, which in turn has devolved into the pursuit of gratification. The current state of the world is one where our expectations of personal satisfaction, for many of us at least, is beyond what we can reasonably achieve, and the desire for it creates a downward spiral of misery. Men want women to be like their idealized waifus, and many expect their waifu to just come to them without their having to expend any effort or deal with competition from other men. The infamous "I'm a nice guy so why doesn't she want me, oh it must be because she only dates assholes" mentality that is pretty much a caricature of itself at this point is a product of this kind of thinking. This usually leads to a conclusion of "fuck it I'll just date this cartoon character because she'll never reject me," which is never truly satisfying because even the most autistic among us Nigel can on some level grasp that none of it is real. Women, on the other hand, seem for the most part to have no idea what they want, which is probably why feminism has only gotten louder and angrier despite having pretty much succeeded in attaining all of its original stated goals. I guess it's sort of what you seem to be saying, that women of our age have been taught to pursue individualism the same as men, but it always ends in a blind alley for them, which is frustrating. Meanwhile, men have been conditioned to desire women that actual women are incapable of becoming, which is also frustrating.

The answer to your overall question, ie why all the salt, is actually fairly easy to answer once you understand all this: everyone is mad. Literally everyone. Men, women, all of us, we just mad. The world sucks now and is wrong, and we don't know how to fix it. Worse, many have an idea how to fix it, but the steps required would take everyone so far out of their comfort zone it may as well be impossible. Complaining about women on the internet is just easier.

>>212855
>The world sucks now and is wrong, and we don't know how to fix it. Worse, many have an idea how to fix it, but the steps required would take everyone so far out of their comfort zone it may as well be impossible.
This post is the first post that didn't make me think that this thread is a trainwreck. I'll address your point first.
I think the bigger issue is that people don't know how to be happy, or how to pursue happiness. Further, I contest that people might have an idea how to fix it, I would amend that statement to suggest that people think they have an idea how to fix it, but are instead feeding into their own preconceptions of what would be 'good' or 'better' for themselves and those around them (but really haven't the faintest idea). Meanwhile, we're constantly trying to project a self-image that we've got everything figured out and are having the time of our lives, when in fact we're no more (and arguably less) competent at pursuing/achieving self-fullfillment than previous generations. Take a look at social media of all varieties, even those who admit they don't have a clue are seen as being grounded enough to be rational about it, and therefore better than anyone who doesn't feel that grounded. Beyond that we have an increasingly degenerate mass that is following particular individuals (narcissists and sociopaths, the lot) that are either literal or pseudo-celebrities, who are so fucked in the head that the idea that ANYONE would follow or try to emulate their example makes me worry I'm going to have an aneurysm.
>>212240
Here's the problem with your assertion. Yes, the mane 6 (and undoubtedly the most waifu'd of the series) are goal and career-oriented, but realize this is a show primarily for little girls. The mane are presumably approximately in their late teenage years, perhaps at the cusp of family and child-rearing but they're not there yet.
What they're not - in spite of contemporary society's example - is fixated on dating, sex, and a variety of observably non-conducive psychological behaviors that will lead to ruin. Its not that they're avoiding romance and families and children, its that they're not there yet, but rather than fixate on trying to explore romance and dating (I scoff at the idea of ponies casually dating, and you should too) they're focused on their passion, drives, and activities that they find rewarding, and through them are working toward developing and bettering themselves, which IMO is a far better example for little girls and kids than say, the Kardashians et al. That males opt to waifu them could be considered a degenerate practice, but at the same time its an individual identifying and (in their own way) glorifying a particular archetype of female that they hope to find and be with.
I agree with >>212855 that 2d waifus are a symptom of societal decadence, and the expectation that an individual is just going to stumble into their literal or figurative waifu and magically/mystically everything is going to be peachy is absurd. For one, choosing a waifu from an archetypal cartoon misses the point, as there are essentially 0 older teenagers who are completely self-actualized (respective to their age) and that while they make great role models for idealistic young girls they present a false image in the minds of adult males who fixate on them as a form of escapism.
I say this particularly because while I have a waifu, its totally ironic and is essentially a statement of "which pony I like best". To literally romantically focus on a waifu - let alone a pony - is (with notable exceptions) the tippy-toppest tier degeneracy.
I forget where I was going with that, but I'm confident that I've at least addressed a few of the recurring arguments in this thread.

>>212855
>hitting those digits fam
>my id is 28555 in another thread
what the fuck is seriously happening?

I mostly agree with everything you said, but I suppose that I was never going to get an answer that is fulfilling or epiphany worthy. I tend to look up to men and am continually disappointed in the abject lunacy of many of my betters, and being a degenerate who has no use to men in the first place, all I really have is conversation to feed the eternal thot's hunger for (you)s.

the issue with what you said to me though is I'm not sure what we can hope to live for without art. Aesthetics and its idea driven creative process is if not the exact same function as religion and thus a necessary evolved trait that can't be eschewed, or at the very least tied to it so that the absence of one harms the other. God himself in the christian religion scorns idolatry, but it doesn't erase the constructed nature of an all mighty and all good deity who will watch over you and dispense righteous justice. Even if it turned out to be true, these things are just as metaphysical as a waifu, and much of its inherent appeal is identical. something more perfect than the readily apparent human authority figures.

It's not hard to argue that god itself is a positive influence unlike our supposition on cartoons like mlp, because much like even a bad-ish father leads to better outcomes for children, the belief in a higher power insulates certain institutions and conventions. It doesn't make them in any way impregnable, but the utility becomes stark when you compare to life without god; the human tendency to apply those feelings and motives to other things, like the commie state for example, in their place becomes a far bigger culprit than many corrupt religions.

The persistence of religion has bestowed upon humanity, even i'd argue the incapable like me, a desire for virtues and strengths beyond what can actually be achieved far before anyone could scrawl the first work of fiction. Even the most popular and shilled (for good or bad is irrelevant you paganlarpers and christfags) religion of Christianity in our board is not exempt from this, it teaches you to be like someone to whom no mortal could possibly measure, and rewards you with things (or in some schisms, punishes you) in quantity that cannot be quantified. Humans fundamentally adopt culture and behavior and develop attachments to figures, divine or human. I think very few would say that Christ is their only influence.

The most fundamental reasons women should not be doing anything but obeying their betters and pursuing nothing more than family matters with whatever hobbies they can squeeze in between, is because we have a caustic affect on society when allowed to do otherwise, and because we are very bad at it besides. But because humans are bad at not sinning does not inspire many to turn their head away from christ, likewise, I find it hard to brand desire to pursue something better for women as a bad thing. Acting on it in the wrong way might certainly be, I can easily recognize that the presence of such media makes women and men more covetous, but the alternative seems to be synonymous with seeking an animal existence; dead of the color and breadth of spirituality; the appreciation or pursuit of things and goals that are at least partially intangible.

With very few exceptions, men as a whole have been the steward and builder of civilization. Think about that. The fundamental structure of invention, art, and society are the heritage of only half our entire species, and the other side contributes nothing but animal reproduction and services that will in the foreseeable future be rendered obsolete. I certainly agree that people wont ever go so far out of their comfort zone. I really expect people will simply continue to replace women, and I'd rather see society want for us to evolve into a more justified role for partnership, or at least, competent servitude.

Equestria and other franchises represent just that to me, a society where women have risen to something significant and less reprehensible.

>>212890
>Here's the problem with your assertion. Yes, the mane 6 (and undoubtedly the most waifu'd of the series) are goal and career-oriented, but realize this is a show primarily for little girls. The mane are presumably approximately in their late teenage years, perhaps at the cusp of family and child-rearing but they're not there yet.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BlMaQf_xoKw&feature=youtu.be&t=537 [Embed]
>is fixated on dating, sex, and a variety of observably non-conducive psychological behaviors that will lead to ruin
So you don't think their aspirations or behavior would lead to ruin in a society like ours?
>the tippy topest tier of degeneracy
where do you think you are?

>>212895
Imagine mistaking someone like me for being dumb enough to hate the biggest bone the new garbage seasons have ever thrown my dykeshit ass, no I hate thorax not glamburger

>>212899
>thinking that Mossad Nigel is mistaken for real Nigel
Nigel kept making that mistake too. He thinks we think he's Barneyfag
>thinking that the name Mossad Nigel has anything to do with Glimmer or pones in general

>>212902
>Nigel kept making that mistake too. He thinks we think he's Barneyfag
>thinking that the name Mossad Nigel has anything to do with Glimmer or pones in general
Fair enough, I have no fucking clue who you are autisming about, only that you seem awfully interested in dragging a thread off topic while shilling for Israel.

in the world of equestria, it seems male and female mental abilities and optimizations more closely mirror each other. mlp ponies seem to have very little sexual dimorphism, with females more closely mirroring male cognitive abilities and males more closely mirroring female social avilities(not to strange as they are herbivores). the males seem to have higher bodily strenght. the females seem to be less impared by pregnancy than human females (possibly due to the quadruped stance).

if we take the family size of the mane 6 into consideration (as an average), the fertility rate is 2.67, and therefore above reolacement value.

if the human forms mirror the pony forms ages, the mane 6 should be 16-18 years old. pony society seems to have a rather short school period (possibly due to the lower technological developement (seeing the application of magic as technologie)).

there seems to be an overabundance of female ponies (can be offset by the .5 births per female even with monogamy).

the rules of equestria are godlike beings, and therefote not translateable to the real world.

the overabundance of females would allow for (or force) these females to stay childless and necessarily persuit a career.

(in other words: if bigmac were to be less shy he would get mad horsepussy)

the mane 6 seem to be outliers in their ability in the first place (normal for shows besides sitcoms).

these biological factors create a plausible explaination for pony society.

the lack of degeneracy, the pledge to better once society, the stability of the society depicted and the self improvement connected to once purpose makes the interesting for the unintentioned demographics.

the shows characters display "genuine" personalities too.

the problem with pony society is, that it is not translateable one to one to human societies, as we have higher sexual dimorphism and more equal probabilities of childrens sexes.

this amounts to some aspects of pony society working as feminist propaganda (fortunately not extreme propaganda).

- too few male characters in general
- too high female competance
- too low a need for motherhood
- no females pausing career for parenthood

equestria is a fantastical utopian country. from the human perspective it has both feminist and national socialistic points. the valueing of the individual struggle is present in both beliefs.

> inb4 natsoc feminism

if the show would end in a timeskip, with multiple mane 6 characters having children (and mentioning pausing, ending or decelerating their career acordingly) could remedy the feminist aspects and make the show more applicable to our world (similar to the families founded by the characters of the show avatar: the last airbender).

>>212387
>abysmal argumentation style
A lot of Liberals love to slap badword labels on things they don't like, when they can't explain why they hate these things.
>"Stop making these garbage posts!"
>"Stop telling me your shitty opinions!"
>"Your beliefs are cancer!"
>"You are a abysmal person!"
>"Your hair? Toxic! Your clothes? Toxic! Your shoes? Toxic!"

Shut up Nigel