Greetings, all. Due to the relative success of my disembowelment of Nigel's seminal work, Silver Star Apple and the Quest for the Perfect Ponut Pounding (still ongoing btw), I have been toying for some time with the notion of starting my own general review thread. As you may possibly not have failed to somewhat guess, this thread might perhaps just not be the opposite of that thing that was said, just now, by me, the guy who am writing the words being read, by you and others like you. Good English talking ftw.
In this thread, I will take various works of fiction and over-analyze them to the point of ridiculousness. If you have anything in particular you would like me to read and/or skewer, feel free to post it here. Fanfictions, short stories, comics, novels you had to read in high school; I will examine nearly anything, so long as it isn't too enormous a project. If you have something that you yourself have written and would like me to take a look at, I am happy to do that as well. Works of any genre/universe will be accepted, reviews will probably be done in the order they are requested, unless something jumps out at me that I really want to do first. I may also select things at random from my own personal list. As always, updates will occur sporadically whenever I have the time to do them and feel like doing them.
So, anyways, up first is a request I was given a couple of weeks ago. This is a short MLP fanfic from fimfiction.net. I haven't been a hoarsefucker long enough to be familiar with many of the major Pony works, but I get the impression that this is a fairly well-known story. The title is:
Would It Matter if I Was?
by GaPJaxie
For those who would like to read along, the original text can be found here:
https://www.fimfiction.net/story/289205/1/would-it-matter-if-i-was/should-it
I was originally just going to analyze this story as a self-contained work, but I happened to click at random on a story from the suggestions column. I've decided to include the second story, a parody, in my review and will periodically be comparing it to the original, because after having read both I honestly think the parody is the better work. I will intermittently compare the two and offer justifications for this position. Here is the parody:
Do it Mattered If I Is?
by KitsuneRisu
This story can be found here:
https://www.fimfiction.net/story/289759/1/do-it-mattered-if-i-is/sheord-it
I would encourage my readers to familiarize themselves with both texts before continuing with my pompous overanalysis of them.
So, with all of that out of the way, let's get started.
The story consists of a dialog between Twilight and Fluttershy. The two of them are at Twilight's former residence, a tower at Canterlot Castle, straightening up her library. Spike is apparently asleep on the couch, although he doesn't really factor into the story. Fluttershy has apparently just asked a question that caught Twilight off guard.
>“Would it matter if you were a changeling?” Twilight repeated, adding a firmness to the words. Her puzzled expression turned narrow, and her tail flicked. “That’s what you're asking me?” Fluttershy nodded. “Okay, well then. Yes. The changelings just tried to invade Canterlot and enslave all of Equestria, so I’d have to say it would matter.”
Well, at least we know she wasn't asking about crusty cunt flakes. Nice to have the premise established right at the beginning of the story, saves us the trouble of trying to figure it out later. Anyway, I'll say a couple of things here. Overall, this story is pretty well constructed from a technical standpoint, at least compared to other fanfics, so I probably won't nitpick grammar and word choice much unless something big jumps out at me. That said, I have a bit of a problem with "adding a firmness to the words" and "Her puzzled expression turned narrow." Both phrases are a little awkward. The meaning is clear enough, but when you look a bit closer it's really not the best choice of words.
First, you don't add firmness to words; that doesn't make much sense. The impression the author is trying to convey is that Twilight is repeating Fluttershy's question, more firmly than Fluttershy did (not a hard feat to accomplish, really). In that case, her voice is what's comparably more firm, not the words. Furthermore, describing firmness as an additive component makes the phrasing awkward. This sentence could just as easily have been written as:
>"Would it matter if you were a changeling?" Twilight repeated more firmly.
Next, let's examine:
>Her puzzled expression turned narrow, and her tail flicked.
Try to visualize what's happening here. "Her puzzled expression turned narrow." What does that mean exactly? She has a puzzled expression on her face, and then gradually it starts to narrow? How? Are her facial features physically compressing inward as she's talking?
A very general rule in writing is "show, don't tell." It applies perfectly here. You could rewrite this sentence as:
>Her expression turned from puzzlement to suspicion, and her tail flicked.
And it would convey the same information much better than what is written. However, what would be even better is to just state what Twilight is doing and have the reader fill in the blanks for himself:
>Her eyes narrowed suspiciously, and her tail flicked.
The reader can probably infer from what's going on that Twilight was initially puzzled by the question, so what really needs to be conveyed here is that she is now growing suspicious. Rather than just stating that this is the case, it's better to illustrate this by describing her gestures and expressions.
There are a number of similarly awkward passages peppered throughout this text. I won't delve into all of them, but this is the kind of thing any competent writer should try to keep an eye out for when proofreading their own work.
Anyway, stay tuned, more to follow.
/mlpol/ - My Little Politics
Archived thread
File (): 8B4F995505C781023469539A156959A8-173735.png (169.7 KB, 416x463, flim flam in your bim bam.png)
File (): 2D0F84D20E7ED543E63FAE1745AC158E-428884.png (418.8 KB, 745x790, 1548959680330.png)
>>202151
Continued.
One thing that jumps out at me from reading the original text and the parody text side by side, is that the parody reads much more quickly and lightly, and the flow of dialog is better. For one thing, the original text is far more verbose in its descriptions of what is happening outside the conversation:
>“Would it matter?” Fluttershy repeated, setting aside one of the larger boxes of books. Her voice was quiet, but not timid, and she held Twilight’s stare across the long gap between them. She’d been helping Twilight clean up the old library, and had several books tucked under her wings. “If I was. That is.”
>“Would it matter if you were a changeling?” Twilight repeated, adding a firmness to the words. Her puzzled expression turned narrow, and her tail flicked. “That’s what you're asking me?” Fluttershy nodded. “Okay, well then. Yes. The changelings just tried to invade Canterlot and enslave all of Equestria, so I’d have to say it would matter.”
>“Changelings just tried to invade Canterlot and enslave all of Equestria,” Fluttershy said, more gently than Twilight had. Her voice was soft, but the structure of her words was orderly, like she was reading from a well-practiced statement. She turned back to the shelf in front of her, and resumed shelving the books she had under her wing.
>“That’s what I said.” Twilight continued to stare at Fluttershy, now at her back. Fluttershy picked up a book, and considered its spine. There was plenty of work to be done, getting Twilight's old Canterlot tower back in order. They still hadn’t left the library. Fluttershy was shelving books, and Twilight was spread out on one of the couches, with Spike asleep nearby.
Considering that this entire story is mostly just dialog between two characters, the conversation tends to plod along rather slowly. For each line of spoken dialog, there are at least a couple of sentences describing tone or timbre of voice, and nearly every spoken line is followed by a description of what the character is doing. It's important in dialog-heavy scenes to throw in small bits of action here and there to reinforce the setting and keep the scene moving, so this isn't bad in and of itself. However, I think there's a bit too much of it going on here. Since the focus of this story is not what the characters are doing but what they are talking about, we probably don't need a play-by-play description of Fluttershy and Twilight putting books away; it's enough to just establish early on that that's what they are doing, and briefly remind the reader of it every few lines or so.
For comparison, here is the parody's version of essentially the same exchange:
>“T-twilight?” Fluttershy called out meekly, her eyes watering.
>“What.” Twilight stated through clenched teeth. It wasn’t a question. It was a demand.
>“Are you angry about the Changelings?”
>“Am I–” Twilight repeated, exasperation setting in. “Yes, Fluttershy. I am upset. Very upset. Are we even on the same planet here? Did you not see what happened?”
>“No, I meant… are you angry about all the Changelings?”
>“Yes, I’m quite angry about all the Changelings, Fluttershy. I’m not sure what you’re trying to insinuate!”
>“You shouldn’t be, I don’t think.” Fluttershy rubbed her neck.
>“What?”
>“I think it’s… not fair.”
This exchange is almost entirely dialog, but it still manages to convey a perfectly good visual image of these two characters speaking to each other. In fact, KitsuneRisu's version of this story is told almost entirely through dialog. Except for a few silly lines like
>Twilight’s brow crinkled like old plastic wrap in the hooves of a very dumb child.
where description is being used as humor, we mostly just have Twilight and Fluttershy talking to each other, with only a bare minimum of narration in between. In between spoken lines, the characters occasionally perform simple actions, such as "Fluttershy put a book on the floor" or "Twilight stamped her hoof." That is more than enough to convey what is happening as this conversation is taking place.
Something seriously worth noting here is that, even though the parody contains a lot more dialog, and deliberately spends more time dancing around the issue for comic effect, the original text takes considerably longer to get to the point. Even though the original text approaches it more directly and with fewer spoken lines, we've got all this stuff about gentle voices and dusty shelves in between. As I mentioned earlier, for each spoken line we get a sentence or two describing the sound of the character's voice and another one describing them putting a book away. It's like the story is constantly making the reader shift gears: a character says something, so the reader focuses on what they just said. Then, the character does something, and the reader has to change gears and focus on what's happening outside of the conversation.
The author probably felt that trying to describe the voices and the surroundings more elegantly would make the story prettier to read and the tone more serious, but really it just slows things down. The reader's attention is constantly being pulled back and forth between what is being said and what is going on. However, for this story, the action is only superficially important; the story is really meant to be about the moral problem that the author clearly wants to explore (I'll delve into themes and morals a little more deeply once we've gotten some of this nitpicky stuff out of the way). Also, it isn't really helped by the fact that a lot of the description is awkwardly written, as I've pointed out before.
>>202171
Hi Sven, nice to have you on board.
Continued.
One thing that jumps out at me from reading the original text and the parody text side by side, is that the parody reads much more quickly and lightly, and the flow of dialog is better. For one thing, the original text is far more verbose in its descriptions of what is happening outside the conversation:
>“Would it matter?” Fluttershy repeated, setting aside one of the larger boxes of books. Her voice was quiet, but not timid, and she held Twilight’s stare across the long gap between them. She’d been helping Twilight clean up the old library, and had several books tucked under her wings. “If I was. That is.”
>“Would it matter if you were a changeling?” Twilight repeated, adding a firmness to the words. Her puzzled expression turned narrow, and her tail flicked. “That’s what you're asking me?” Fluttershy nodded. “Okay, well then. Yes. The changelings just tried to invade Canterlot and enslave all of Equestria, so I’d have to say it would matter.”
>“Changelings just tried to invade Canterlot and enslave all of Equestria,” Fluttershy said, more gently than Twilight had. Her voice was soft, but the structure of her words was orderly, like she was reading from a well-practiced statement. She turned back to the shelf in front of her, and resumed shelving the books she had under her wing.
>“That’s what I said.” Twilight continued to stare at Fluttershy, now at her back. Fluttershy picked up a book, and considered its spine. There was plenty of work to be done, getting Twilight's old Canterlot tower back in order. They still hadn’t left the library. Fluttershy was shelving books, and Twilight was spread out on one of the couches, with Spike asleep nearby.
Considering that this entire story is mostly just dialog between two characters, the conversation tends to plod along rather slowly. For each line of spoken dialog, there are at least a couple of sentences describing tone or timbre of voice, and nearly every spoken line is followed by a description of what the character is doing. It's important in dialog-heavy scenes to throw in small bits of action here and there to reinforce the setting and keep the scene moving, so this isn't bad in and of itself. However, I think there's a bit too much of it going on here. Since the focus of this story is not what the characters are doing but what they are talking about, we probably don't need a play-by-play description of Fluttershy and Twilight putting books away; it's enough to just establish early on that that's what they are doing, and briefly remind the reader of it every few lines or so.
For comparison, here is the parody's version of essentially the same exchange:
>“T-twilight?” Fluttershy called out meekly, her eyes watering.
>“What.” Twilight stated through clenched teeth. It wasn’t a question. It was a demand.
>“Are you angry about the Changelings?”
>“Am I–” Twilight repeated, exasperation setting in. “Yes, Fluttershy. I am upset. Very upset. Are we even on the same planet here? Did you not see what happened?”
>“No, I meant… are you angry about all the Changelings?”
>“Yes, I’m quite angry about all the Changelings, Fluttershy. I’m not sure what you’re trying to insinuate!”
>“You shouldn’t be, I don’t think.” Fluttershy rubbed her neck.
>“What?”
>“I think it’s… not fair.”
This exchange is almost entirely dialog, but it still manages to convey a perfectly good visual image of these two characters speaking to each other. In fact, KitsuneRisu's version of this story is told almost entirely through dialog. Except for a few silly lines like
>Twilight’s brow crinkled like old plastic wrap in the hooves of a very dumb child.
where description is being used as humor, we mostly just have Twilight and Fluttershy talking to each other, with only a bare minimum of narration in between. In between spoken lines, the characters occasionally perform simple actions, such as "Fluttershy put a book on the floor" or "Twilight stamped her hoof." That is more than enough to convey what is happening as this conversation is taking place.
Something seriously worth noting here is that, even though the parody contains a lot more dialog, and deliberately spends more time dancing around the issue for comic effect, the original text takes considerably longer to get to the point. Even though the original text approaches it more directly and with fewer spoken lines, we've got all this stuff about gentle voices and dusty shelves in between. As I mentioned earlier, for each spoken line we get a sentence or two describing the sound of the character's voice and another one describing them putting a book away. It's like the story is constantly making the reader shift gears: a character says something, so the reader focuses on what they just said. Then, the character does something, and the reader has to change gears and focus on what's happening outside of the conversation.
The author probably felt that trying to describe the voices and the surroundings more elegantly would make the story prettier to read and the tone more serious, but really it just slows things down. The reader's attention is constantly being pulled back and forth between what is being said and what is going on. However, for this story, the action is only superficially important; the story is really meant to be about the moral problem that the author clearly wants to explore (I'll delve into themes and morals a little more deeply once we've gotten some of this nitpicky stuff out of the way). Also, it isn't really helped by the fact that a lot of the description is awkwardly written, as I've pointed out before.
>>202171
Hi Sven, nice to have you on board.
File (): 28D7BAD35CD06E826F9CB477F8DA4CAF-389777.png (380.6 KB, 600x600, 1548999695552.png)
>>202173
Another thing I wanted to cover, before I break for today and pick this up another time, is the dialog itself, and the portrayal of the characters.
The vast majority of fanfiction tends to be pretty awful. Probably the only subcategory of literature with a lower bar of entry for authors is porn. While this tends to mean that you can only reasonably grade fanfiction on a curve, one reliable judgement metric is how well the author writes the characters in his chosen universe. Considering that the last work of Pony fanfiction I read was Silver Star Apple and the Rubber-Studded Dildo of Destiny, the curve for this one was not set particularly high coming in. I will say that in comparison to Nigel's magnum opus, this author does a much better job portraying the mannerisms and speech patterns of his characters, in that he is not completely hopeless at it. However, in comparison to the original source material, it falls a little short.
GaPJaxie does a reasonably good job with Twilight's dialog. He captures her general sperginess, as well as her tendency to be a little hyper and occasionally condescending. His Fluttershy, on the other hand, I didn't find as convincing. She's a little too confident here. At some points she becomes downright aggressive. I get that the point of the story is that she is supposed to be acting slightly out of character; however, I don't find her to be convincingly out of character here, if that makes sense. I actually get the impression that he may have sensed this while he was writing it, which I suspect is why the text goes to as much trouble as it does to describe how quiet and gentle her voice is.
With the parody text, the opposite is true. KitsuneRisu's Twilight is just over the top silly, which was obviously done on purpose. However, his Fluttershy is surprisingly good. Part of it is that the dialog in the parody is just more expressive than in the original. Whereas the spoken lines in the original tend to be weighted down with a lot of heavy rhetoric, the parody is just banter back and forth between two characters. Even though most of what they're saying is completely ridiculous, the characters react to each other through their speech. Consider this selection from the parody:
>“Well… let me put it this way. Let’s say that there was a unicorn who called Applejack the m-word. There’s a difference between saying that some unicorns called Applejack the m-word, and–”
>“Wait, what?” Twilight said, rolling her hoof in a circle. “Excuse me?”
>“– and all the unicorns calling Applejack the m-word.” Fluttershy finished.
>“No. No. Wait.” Twilight continued to wave her hoof around. “Did some unicorns call Applejack a mong?”
>“N-no!” Fluttershy burst out in a stutter. “That’s awful. I meant mud, Twilight.”
>“Oh.” Twilight said, still frowning. “Oh. That’s marginally better. But who the heck is going around calling Applejack a mong? She doesn’t have learning difficulties.”
>“No one, Twilight!” Fluttershy twittered in frustration. “No one. No. I’m sorry. I messed up again. I just meant… I meant that there’s a difference between casting blame on an entire race because of what one of them did, and just blaming the individual.”
Fluttershy starts to say something, Twilight interrupts her. Fluttershy ignores her and finishes her sentence. Twilight misunderstands what she said, and gets angry. Fluttershy recoils in shock, and quickly corrects her. Twilight, however, is still a bit confused, so Fluttershy explains what she meant.
Now, compare that to this selection from the original:
>“No, you said the changelings invaded Canterlot.” Fluttershy finished with her books, and used her wings to smooth out a section of her coat the covers had ruffled. After she was done, she turned back to Twilight. “I mean, it’s the difference between, ‘Some unicorns called Applejack a… m-word pony, today, and the unicorns called Applejack a m-word pony today.’”
>“‘Mud’ isn’t a dirty word, Fluttershy,” Twilight replied, frowning as she spoke. Her left ear twitched.
>“It is when you use it that way.” She walked across the room, but not over to Twilight’s couch. Instead, she headed over to the old desk, still covered in paper and dusty cups from before Twilight left for Ponyville. “And don’t change the subject.”
Fluttershy says something, then dusts off some books with her wings. Then, she turns around and says something else. Twilight calmly responds to her. Her left ear inexplicably starts twitching; it's probably related to her coke problem that none of her friends have quite worked up the courage to approach her about. Fluttershy says something back to Twilight, then walks across the room to an old desk, the surface of which is described in rather more detail than is necessary. Then she says something else.
There's nothing objectively wrong with the second selection, the conversation is just flatter and duller. The first selection is more dynamic. The characters react to each other. Fluttershy has something she's trying to communicate, but Twilight's autism keeps interfering with her explaining it, so she keeps getting sidetracked. In the second selection, each pony just says what she has to say, then the other pony talks. They are technically communicating, but they don't really react to each other. They just say things and move around the room performing minor tasks. Trump would probably call this scene low-energy.
Even though most of the parody dialog is irreverent and ridiculous, and in many cases the characters say things wildly out of character for both themselves and the show, the dialog is expressive enough that you get a sense of two distinct characters having a real conversation. I read each of their lines in the characters' voices. Meanwhile, the dialog in the original is just rhetoric, and I find myself reading a lot of it in the same "neutral" voice I read the narration in.
Next episode: philosophy and moral arguments.
Another thing I wanted to cover, before I break for today and pick this up another time, is the dialog itself, and the portrayal of the characters.
The vast majority of fanfiction tends to be pretty awful. Probably the only subcategory of literature with a lower bar of entry for authors is porn. While this tends to mean that you can only reasonably grade fanfiction on a curve, one reliable judgement metric is how well the author writes the characters in his chosen universe. Considering that the last work of Pony fanfiction I read was Silver Star Apple and the Rubber-Studded Dildo of Destiny, the curve for this one was not set particularly high coming in. I will say that in comparison to Nigel's magnum opus, this author does a much better job portraying the mannerisms and speech patterns of his characters, in that he is not completely hopeless at it. However, in comparison to the original source material, it falls a little short.
GaPJaxie does a reasonably good job with Twilight's dialog. He captures her general sperginess, as well as her tendency to be a little hyper and occasionally condescending. His Fluttershy, on the other hand, I didn't find as convincing. She's a little too confident here. At some points she becomes downright aggressive. I get that the point of the story is that she is supposed to be acting slightly out of character; however, I don't find her to be convincingly out of character here, if that makes sense. I actually get the impression that he may have sensed this while he was writing it, which I suspect is why the text goes to as much trouble as it does to describe how quiet and gentle her voice is.
With the parody text, the opposite is true. KitsuneRisu's Twilight is just over the top silly, which was obviously done on purpose. However, his Fluttershy is surprisingly good. Part of it is that the dialog in the parody is just more expressive than in the original. Whereas the spoken lines in the original tend to be weighted down with a lot of heavy rhetoric, the parody is just banter back and forth between two characters. Even though most of what they're saying is completely ridiculous, the characters react to each other through their speech. Consider this selection from the parody:
>“Well… let me put it this way. Let’s say that there was a unicorn who called Applejack the m-word. There’s a difference between saying that some unicorns called Applejack the m-word, and–”
>“Wait, what?” Twilight said, rolling her hoof in a circle. “Excuse me?”
>“– and all the unicorns calling Applejack the m-word.” Fluttershy finished.
>“No. No. Wait.” Twilight continued to wave her hoof around. “Did some unicorns call Applejack a mong?”
>“N-no!” Fluttershy burst out in a stutter. “That’s awful. I meant mud, Twilight.”
>“Oh.” Twilight said, still frowning. “Oh. That’s marginally better. But who the heck is going around calling Applejack a mong? She doesn’t have learning difficulties.”
>“No one, Twilight!” Fluttershy twittered in frustration. “No one. No. I’m sorry. I messed up again. I just meant… I meant that there’s a difference between casting blame on an entire race because of what one of them did, and just blaming the individual.”
Fluttershy starts to say something, Twilight interrupts her. Fluttershy ignores her and finishes her sentence. Twilight misunderstands what she said, and gets angry. Fluttershy recoils in shock, and quickly corrects her. Twilight, however, is still a bit confused, so Fluttershy explains what she meant.
Now, compare that to this selection from the original:
>“No, you said the changelings invaded Canterlot.” Fluttershy finished with her books, and used her wings to smooth out a section of her coat the covers had ruffled. After she was done, she turned back to Twilight. “I mean, it’s the difference between, ‘Some unicorns called Applejack a… m-word pony, today, and the unicorns called Applejack a m-word pony today.’”
>“‘Mud’ isn’t a dirty word, Fluttershy,” Twilight replied, frowning as she spoke. Her left ear twitched.
>“It is when you use it that way.” She walked across the room, but not over to Twilight’s couch. Instead, she headed over to the old desk, still covered in paper and dusty cups from before Twilight left for Ponyville. “And don’t change the subject.”
Fluttershy says something, then dusts off some books with her wings. Then, she turns around and says something else. Twilight calmly responds to her. Her left ear inexplicably starts twitching; it's probably related to her coke problem that none of her friends have quite worked up the courage to approach her about. Fluttershy says something back to Twilight, then walks across the room to an old desk, the surface of which is described in rather more detail than is necessary. Then she says something else.
There's nothing objectively wrong with the second selection, the conversation is just flatter and duller. The first selection is more dynamic. The characters react to each other. Fluttershy has something she's trying to communicate, but Twilight's autism keeps interfering with her explaining it, so she keeps getting sidetracked. In the second selection, each pony just says what she has to say, then the other pony talks. They are technically communicating, but they don't really react to each other. They just say things and move around the room performing minor tasks. Trump would probably call this scene low-energy.
Even though most of the parody dialog is irreverent and ridiculous, and in many cases the characters say things wildly out of character for both themselves and the show, the dialog is expressive enough that you get a sense of two distinct characters having a real conversation. I read each of their lines in the characters' voices. Meanwhile, the dialog in the original is just rhetoric, and I find myself reading a lot of it in the same "neutral" voice I read the narration in.
Next episode: philosophy and moral arguments.
File (): D58B4B0F334BA066EA4D2588152C28DF-627710.png (613.0 KB, 600x848, Boops of mastery.png)
>>202151
So I intend to make this into a real story >>197996 →. Well, kind of useless information because when I do, I won't exactly be quiet about it that's for sure so... But hopefully, you can give me your opinion aboout it then.
Also, right now. I am writting this trash >>643.
Btw, glad that you named your review thread after your e-celeb name. Atleast, you hold onto the virtue of modesty my friend.
So I intend to make this into a real story >>197996 →. Well, kind of useless information because when I do, I won't exactly be quiet about it that's for sure so... But hopefully, you can give me your opinion aboout it then.
Also, right now. I am writting this trash >>643.
Btw, glad that you named your review thread after your e-celeb name. Atleast, you hold onto the virtue of modesty my friend.
File (): 21BC6D974427DD5C3A8169371C3562BE-9640887.mp4 (9.2 MB, Resolution:640x360 Length:00:02:31, Liquid Richard - Banworld - Jordie Jordan - WingsOfRedemption.mp4) [play once] [loop]
Big Ups Liquid Jason
File (): BE7357BC98AA455CFD35FAAACAE2AE5F-387212.png (378.1 KB, 1353x924, 4321421.png)
>>202231
I kind of view you like a vulture who feeds on death. You have made a lot of posts about some faggot who is destroying himself and generally shock images bs. I imagine you jerk off to how much edgy shit you dig up from the depths of the dark web. It would be ironic if I took the wrong guy but I don't really believe I do.
Regardless, this song was really catchy and I personally like when people make songs out of what people say. Have a (you) for a saved song.
>>202151
>This is a short MLP fanfic from fimfiction.net. I haven't been a hoarsefucker long enough to be familiar with many of the major Pony works, but I get the impression that this is a fairly well-known story.
I remember this story. It is relatively new actually. I suppose it made an impact when it came out, however, if you want to read 'real' classics. Then I could make you a list but then again they might already be overanalysed.
I didn't read it when it came out for some reason I don't remember. I remember reading the story's comment section. There was apparently drama and controversy about the story at the time that's why, I think, there are so many spin-offs of this story.
I think you made a good choice in choosing it since it sort of seems to relate to nationality and identity.
Otherwise, this thread is a good initiative.
File (): BADF15F4E4D23D813F4215AF9ADD3A0B-1020724.jpg (996.8 KB, 1080x1216, chlorox chan and tide pod chan.jpg)
>>202352
>if you want to read 'real' classics. Then I could make you a list but then again they might already be overanalysed.
I'm sure that some of us in the audience would be interested in some good recommendations of fics to read. Theres a lot to wade through, and trial-and-error is not exactly great for finding good ones.
>if you want to read 'real' classics. Then I could make you a list but then again they might already be overanalysed.
I'm sure that some of us in the audience would be interested in some good recommendations of fics to read. Theres a lot to wade through, and trial-and-error is not exactly great for finding good ones.
>>202396
>Theres
There's*
I manage to get "recommendations" right, and instead fuck up on "there's". Okay then.
>Theres
There's*
I manage to get "recommendations" right, and instead fuck up on "there's". Okay then.
File (): 2274F8CC2C38F769944593AB2C3CEBD6-271289.png (264.9 KB, 737x600, medium (1).png)
>>202398
>>202396
Well, when I said classics I meant the stories that came first and had most impact. I join this ride at the premiere of the second season and that was in the normie area of the fandom. It would be a bit later until I actually joined the 4chan version, to be honest, I never really did until this site, so it will be from the perspective of normie fandom rather than the horsefucker fandom. Like I don't know what the Tracy meme was all about for example. So someone else has to fill in for me on the horsefucker classics.
Anyway, so "Cupcakes", https://docs.google.com/document/d/1qTTzMqlRTHeHIarZZhwQhADc-1aff9fkHKWx-kn0wMk/edit?hl=en , Kek this brings back memories https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_AbtCTbSWTk and "Rainbow Factory",https://www.fimfiction.net/story/5381/rainbow-factory , I don't know which is most famous the story or the song: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YRx_iXgLAyw gained fame throughout the fandom because they were the first of their kind in the fandom. I guess a lot of the people that came to watch my little pony hadn't been exposed to such stories before. Btw there's like two alternative endings to Rainbow Factory that the author made or something. I remember them but I don't know where to find them. Also, if my story >>201071 → made you chuckle, these stories will make you laugh.
Then there is the tearjerker:;^)"My Little Dashie". Prepare yourself to cry. It is an emotional ride unlike any other...
https://www.fimfiction.net/story/1888/my-little-dashie
We also have another epic drama on our list of classics: "Past Sins". The fact that to this day. Nyx shows up on this board should be enough to prove that it had an impact. I don't know if this version: https://www.fimfiction.net/story/41596/past-sins , has been through a re-write or not. It has been out for so long so it is hard to know.
For action classics, we have the infamous, "Fallout: Equestria", https://www.fimfiction.net/story/119190/fallout-equestria . Probably the most famous one of them all to be honest. Even to this day, people write spin-offs of it. Like Nigel, for example, https://www.fanfiction.net/s/13107414/1/Fallout-Equestria-Sunrise-Stardust-and-The-Burned-World . This story has a fandom inside a fandom and countless spin-offs. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CwUHZSj21CI
Also, this I guess https://www.fimfiction.net/story/1571/the-end-of-ponies . I don't know if it can be called a classic. I mean, I don't know, how huge impact it had on the fandom. I would sooner think that the story the same writer wrote later, https://www.fimfiction.net/story/19198/background-pony was probably more influential. I haven't read any of these so I cannot comment on their quality.
Also, another one about Lyra: https://www.fimfiction.net/story/4656/anthropology .
Some honorable mentions
https://www.fimfiction.net/story/5170/project-sunflower
https://www.fimfiction.net/story/13616/arrow-18-mission-logs-lone-ranger
My favorite on the list. It probably doesn't hold up anymore but I remember liking it, https://www.fimfiction.net/story/19676/sunset
https://www.fimfiction.net/story/273/paradise
https://www.fimfiction.net/story/10157/upheaval-breaking-point
https://www.fimfiction.net/story/13477/vinyl-and-octavia-university-days
https://www.fanfiction.net/s/7211729/1/On-a-Cross-and-Arrow
https://www.fimfiction.net/story/13565/naked-singularity
https://www.fimfiction.net/story/87619/biblical-monsters( this one came out 2013 so its a stretch)
https://www.fimfiction.net/story/1886/the-immortal-game
https://www.fimfiction.net/story/3378/the-moonstone-cup
https://www.fimfiction.net/story/25125/the-keepers-of-discord
https://www.fimfiction.net/story/18087/the-best-night-ever
https://www.fimfiction.net/stories?q=hard+reset+
https://www.fimfiction.net/story/15062/for-those-we-left-behind
https://www.fimfiction.net/story/1766/cheerilees-garden
Honestly, given time I could go on. There is probably someone I missed in this list as well. To be honest, I haven't read most of these stories. They are here because they were early and/or I perceived them to have had a certain place in the fandom's history not because they are guaranteed quality. This is all based on my personal experience; take it with grain of salt.
File (): 60FE4C74724D8EC72AF458CFC1E47446-544634.png (531.9 KB, 680x765, Noose Chan.png)
>>202372
>>202352
I might have been a bit harsh and unfair of me actually. I can use a lot of dark humor myself. I don't even know if you are that anon for sure or not so it is completely absurd to jump out an attack like this.
Maybe this is just a weird justification, but usually, when I use dark humor, I make it clear that I am not serious and that there is some kind of punchline that things are leading up to. I just don't understand the purpose of posts such as this one, >>201058 →. Again, I don't know if you were the one who posted that and honestly, even if it were we all know that disciplining people on the internet isn't a possibility anyway. But like, literally no one would have doubted the claim that there's a video of Chris chan masturbating on the internet so why did he feel the need to post it?
Btw, cute anime chicks. Is the one to the left related to Mountain Dew chan?
>>202352
I might have been a bit harsh and unfair of me actually. I can use a lot of dark humor myself. I don't even know if you are that anon for sure or not so it is completely absurd to jump out an attack like this.
Maybe this is just a weird justification, but usually, when I use dark humor, I make it clear that I am not serious and that there is some kind of punchline that things are leading up to. I just don't understand the purpose of posts such as this one, >>201058 →. Again, I don't know if you were the one who posted that and honestly, even if it were we all know that disciplining people on the internet isn't a possibility anyway. But like, literally no one would have doubted the claim that there's a video of Chris chan masturbating on the internet so why did he feel the need to post it?
Btw, cute anime chicks. Is the one to the left related to Mountain Dew chan?
File (): FCCB98E56059760D34B924D9281339CE-45310.jpg (44.2 KB, 734x775, dsp phil if only you knew.jpg)
File (): 1739132438690BBB8E4C9FFB5E7409A1-5794043.mp4 (5.5 MB, Resolution:1280x720 Length:00:01:53, DSP Phil Masturbating live on stream Summer 2016.mp4) [play once] [loop]
File (): F9E1FCAF15A08FBC4BCB143BF9F27B95-951470.mp4 (929.2 KB, Resolution:854x480 Length:00:00:19, Talking with Randy.mp4) [play once] [loop]
>>202453
If you don't have the time to read all those just watch the "Rainbow Dash Presents" animated cinematics by Dawn Somewhere. They provide accurate portrayals of the stories in audio-visual format.
If you don't have the time to read all those just watch the "Rainbow Dash Presents" animated cinematics by Dawn Somewhere. They provide accurate portrayals of the stories in audio-visual format.
I call dibs on Fallout Equestria and the Nyx one.
>>202453
Thanks for the links! Now I'll have something to do at work for a while.
For anyone looking for "Paradise", the author apparently made the whole danged story unavailable while it's on "hiatus", but archive.org's still got it:
https://web.archive.org/web/20160731231520/https://www.fimfiction.net/story/273/paradise
Thanks for the links! Now I'll have something to do at work for a while.
For anyone looking for "Paradise", the author apparently made the whole danged story unavailable while it's on "hiatus", but archive.org's still got it:
https://web.archive.org/web/20160731231520/https://www.fimfiction.net/story/273/paradise
>>202577
Just for clarification, the middle chapters aren't missing, just hit the "Show" next to "17 chapters hidden.", and they're all still there. Apparently FimFiction hides the list in some way that archive.org is still able to archive and display them, which is nice.
Just for clarification, the middle chapters aren't missing, just hit the "Show" next to "17 chapters hidden.", and they're all still there. Apparently FimFiction hides the list in some way that archive.org is still able to archive and display them, which is nice.
File (): 8DC69675EBCC93F120B40BC2CC9B192C-67994.png (66.4 KB, 567x912, vuTA7EN.png)
>>202151
>I haven't been a horsefucker long enough to be familiar with many of the major Pony works, but I get the impression that this is a fairly well-known story.
More like, it was the fimfic bandwagon-of-the-month at one point. Someone famous writes a oneshot and gets featured, then someone writes their own take on the premise or a parody or something and that gets featured too, and suddenly everybody on the site is writing a spinoff of the same idea. Same thing happened with Twilight Eats a Peach and Princess Celestia Is in Your Bed. Or, at a larger scale, Friendship is Optimal, Five Score, and Displaced.
>>202396
/mlp/'s /fimfic/ made a list of top fanfics by category back in (I think) summer of 2014. Pic related. Not sure I'd call them "classics", but if you just want some good fics to read, it's not a bad place to start.
>>202453
Everything above the "honorable mention" line is pretty legit. Though I'd put Background Pony over End of Ponies for sure. People still talk about BGP (and draw hoodie-Lyra fanart), whereas the only thing people remember about End of Ponies is that it's fucking dead.
>Btw there's like two alternative endings to Rainbow Factory that the author made or something
Cupcakes had like a dozen, all by different authors. They were listed on the EqD story post, before it was deleted lol. Archived copy can be found here: https://equestriadaily.wordpress.com/2011/02/25/story-cupcakes/
>I don't know if this version has been through a re-write or not
Pretty sure it got rewritten around S3 timeframe, for better compatibility with S2 canon and to make the shittiest part of the fic marginally less shitty.
>I haven't been a horsefucker long enough to be familiar with many of the major Pony works, but I get the impression that this is a fairly well-known story.
More like, it was the fimfic bandwagon-of-the-month at one point. Someone famous writes a oneshot and gets featured, then someone writes their own take on the premise or a parody or something and that gets featured too, and suddenly everybody on the site is writing a spinoff of the same idea. Same thing happened with Twilight Eats a Peach and Princess Celestia Is in Your Bed. Or, at a larger scale, Friendship is Optimal, Five Score, and Displaced.
>>202396
/mlp/'s /fimfic/ made a list of top fanfics by category back in (I think) summer of 2014. Pic related. Not sure I'd call them "classics", but if you just want some good fics to read, it's not a bad place to start.
>>202453
Everything above the "honorable mention" line is pretty legit. Though I'd put Background Pony over End of Ponies for sure. People still talk about BGP (and draw hoodie-Lyra fanart), whereas the only thing people remember about End of Ponies is that it's fucking dead.
>Btw there's like two alternative endings to Rainbow Factory that the author made or something
Cupcakes had like a dozen, all by different authors. They were listed on the EqD story post, before it was deleted lol. Archived copy can be found here: https://equestriadaily.wordpress.com/2011/02/25/story-cupcakes/
>I don't know if this version has been through a re-write or not
Pretty sure it got rewritten around S3 timeframe, for better compatibility with S2 canon and to make the shittiest part of the fic marginally less shitty.
Ah, how could I forget. The eminent classical masterpiece that overshadows all other classics. I guess its because it gotlabeled as something only pretenscious elistists read. Buyt htis had more to do with how the fans of the story claimed that its quality didn't hinge on appealing to the lowest common denominator unlike other stories, which in turn made a lot of people hate the story when they actually were hating its fans. Such a sad but common occurence!
Here it is the magnun opus of the mlp fandom: Spiderses, https://www.fimfiction.net/stories?q=spiderses
Here it is the magnun opus of the mlp fandom: Spiderses, https://www.fimfiction.net/stories?q=spiderses
File (): FC8122DF09A118F8F1040702EE369300-2793037.mp4 (2.7 MB, Resolution:320x240 Length:00:01:07, Daniel Paul Moore 2012 response to trolls Danny the Panda.mp4) [play once] [loop]
File (): 7841DC8D936916C66AA5F14B3683DFE3-330202.png (322.5 KB, 1188x698, ClipboardImage.png)
File (): BAA060C82F3A3392867AF183FAE8BC70-632566.png (617.7 KB, 1188x698, ClipboardImage.png)
File (): 2F4F3ABB59CBC29F7396E1FD33B9E99E-679320.png (663.4 KB, 1188x698, ClipboardImage.png)
Shoutout to Daniel Paul Moore and his 10 years life work of the Sonic Galaxy 3 Cinematic Universe Fanfiction.
>DA with all his art and stories
https://www.deviantart.com/legends-are-eternal/
>Archive of the Sonic Galaxy 3 forums post raid
https://drive.google.com/drive/folders/1x3r9Uhaa4FhmmajI-ce5M6OwdoS7SE8o
>Partial Archive of DPMs YOutube Channel, does not include Lets plays
https://drive.google.com/drive/folders/1v5IzIC_3fKKUWY5b_Mv98wWYGVwKt6Ge
File (): D20F97904E989A97DC54089D9856BF8D-399661.png (390.3 KB, 594x841, 1548483051666.png)
>>202186
Alright, continuing from where we left off.
You can't really analyze this story without addressing the moral argument it brings up. To summarize it quickly: Fluttershy poses a "hypothetical" question to Twilight about whether or not it would matter if she had actually been a changeling for the entire time they had been friends. The argument is basically that Fluttershy would still be the same pony she always was, so it shouldn't matter because blah blah blah friendship.
There's a couple of problems with this, not the least of which is that both Fluttershy and the author approach the question in an extremely cunty way. The time period the show is set in is immediately following the events of the Canterlot wedding. Apart from the whole "Equestria just faced certain doom" thing, Twilight also had to deal with the whole "my ex-babysitter is a royal cunt and she's marrying my brother but nobody believes me when I try to tell them she's a cunt" thing, immediately followed by the whole "oh wait turns out my babysitter isn't a cunt after all, she was just kidnapped by some kind of horse-insect-queen thing that used my babysitter's body to seduce my brother, and it was said insect-horse that was actually the one being a cunt the whole time" thing. So, all in all, Twilight has had a pretty crazy weekend, and probably just wants to clean up her library a bit so she can spend the rest of her time in Canterlot relaxing, no doubt by curling up on the sofa with her dog-eared copy of Silver Star Apple and the Case of the Penetrated Pooper. Then, suddenly, her friend drops this H-Bomb on her out of nowhere. Twilight even mentions this in the story, and yet Fluttershy just keeps on pressing the issue like a sanctimonious cunt.
Probably the most galling thing about the way this is written is that it implies Twilight is meant to be the bad guy here, when really Fluttershy is the one being unreasonable. The central question of the story, whether or not Fluttershy is actually a changeling, is never technically answered; both the reader and Twilight are left wondering about it. This is actually kind of a flimsy plot point, which I will go into later. However, the bigger issue is that Fluttershy just brings this up out of nowhere and dumps it on Twilight, deliberately planting a seed of doubt in her mind, then struts off leaving the question unanswered, ending with some Tumblr-tier #NotAllChangelings BS as a moral: that it "shouldn't matter" if she's a changeling or not because she's Twilight's friend either way, and if Twilight rejects her friendship because of this then Twilight is the cunt.
The problem with this whole premise is that, while it's true that everyone probably has things about themselves that they haven't told their friends, there's different levels of what you can reasonably expect your friends to accept. For instance, if I were to call up a good friend of mine and say "Hey, guess what, I like to spend copious amounts of my free time analyzing My Little Pony fanfiction for the entertainment of anonymous dweebs on the internet," he might be surprised, maybe even a little disgusted. He'd probably reserve the right to look down on me for it and make fun of me whenever the opportunity presented itself. However, it probably wouldn't be a friendship breaker. On the other hand, if I admitted to something like "I enjoy luring kindergarteners back to my basement and boiling them alive," that's kind of a different story.
In either case, Fluttershy's "I'm still the same person I was before you knew this about me" position would technically apply; however, just because you're the same person you've always been doesn't mean that a new piece of information couldn't drastically alter another person's perception of you, to the point where they wouldn't want to be friends anymore. Friendship is a voluntary association, and if you reveal something about yourself to someone that is a significant violation of that person's personal morals or exceeds their comfort level, or if they consider the omission a significant violation of their trust, the other person has the right to stop associating with you.
I also want to address the whole #NotAllChangelings thing. By all appearances, the author's intent here was to write a Tumblr-tier fable about how you shouldn't judge an entire race by the actions of a few of its members because blah blah friendship. However, in this case, we're not just talking about a "few" changelings misbehaving. Twilight's experience with changelings at this point is that they are a hivemind race of parasitic creatures that feed off the emotions of others. She has encountered an entire swarm of them, and they all behave this way. She has not encountered one that doesn't. Thus, she would have no reason to hold anything but a negative view of them. Even if it did turn out that her friend Fluttershy has been a changeling the entire time, it doesn't exonerate changelings so much as it calls into question the loyalty and motivations of Fluttershy. If she is a changeling, why didn't she tell her friends before? Why is she in Ponyville, masquerading as one of them? Was there ever a "real" Fluttershy, and if so, what happened to her? The whole episode opens up so many questions, any one of which would have made a more interesting story premise than this weak-brew lecture about racism. And, on top of everything else, after introducing the possibility, Fluttershy never actually says whether or not she's a changeling, she just leaves Twilight to wonder about it. So, there's only two possibilities. The first is that Fluttershy is a changeling, and all the previously stated questions deserve to be asked. The second is that Fluttershy is not a changeling, and only posed the question to expose Twilight's (fully justified) prejudice, for no other reason than so she could walk away feeling morally superior. Either way, Fluttershy comes across as a cunt.
Alright, continuing from where we left off.
You can't really analyze this story without addressing the moral argument it brings up. To summarize it quickly: Fluttershy poses a "hypothetical" question to Twilight about whether or not it would matter if she had actually been a changeling for the entire time they had been friends. The argument is basically that Fluttershy would still be the same pony she always was, so it shouldn't matter because blah blah blah friendship.
There's a couple of problems with this, not the least of which is that both Fluttershy and the author approach the question in an extremely cunty way. The time period the show is set in is immediately following the events of the Canterlot wedding. Apart from the whole "Equestria just faced certain doom" thing, Twilight also had to deal with the whole "my ex-babysitter is a royal cunt and she's marrying my brother but nobody believes me when I try to tell them she's a cunt" thing, immediately followed by the whole "oh wait turns out my babysitter isn't a cunt after all, she was just kidnapped by some kind of horse-insect-queen thing that used my babysitter's body to seduce my brother, and it was said insect-horse that was actually the one being a cunt the whole time" thing. So, all in all, Twilight has had a pretty crazy weekend, and probably just wants to clean up her library a bit so she can spend the rest of her time in Canterlot relaxing, no doubt by curling up on the sofa with her dog-eared copy of Silver Star Apple and the Case of the Penetrated Pooper. Then, suddenly, her friend drops this H-Bomb on her out of nowhere. Twilight even mentions this in the story, and yet Fluttershy just keeps on pressing the issue like a sanctimonious cunt.
Probably the most galling thing about the way this is written is that it implies Twilight is meant to be the bad guy here, when really Fluttershy is the one being unreasonable. The central question of the story, whether or not Fluttershy is actually a changeling, is never technically answered; both the reader and Twilight are left wondering about it. This is actually kind of a flimsy plot point, which I will go into later. However, the bigger issue is that Fluttershy just brings this up out of nowhere and dumps it on Twilight, deliberately planting a seed of doubt in her mind, then struts off leaving the question unanswered, ending with some Tumblr-tier #NotAllChangelings BS as a moral: that it "shouldn't matter" if she's a changeling or not because she's Twilight's friend either way, and if Twilight rejects her friendship because of this then Twilight is the cunt.
The problem with this whole premise is that, while it's true that everyone probably has things about themselves that they haven't told their friends, there's different levels of what you can reasonably expect your friends to accept. For instance, if I were to call up a good friend of mine and say "Hey, guess what, I like to spend copious amounts of my free time analyzing My Little Pony fanfiction for the entertainment of anonymous dweebs on the internet," he might be surprised, maybe even a little disgusted. He'd probably reserve the right to look down on me for it and make fun of me whenever the opportunity presented itself. However, it probably wouldn't be a friendship breaker. On the other hand, if I admitted to something like "I enjoy luring kindergarteners back to my basement and boiling them alive," that's kind of a different story.
In either case, Fluttershy's "I'm still the same person I was before you knew this about me" position would technically apply; however, just because you're the same person you've always been doesn't mean that a new piece of information couldn't drastically alter another person's perception of you, to the point where they wouldn't want to be friends anymore. Friendship is a voluntary association, and if you reveal something about yourself to someone that is a significant violation of that person's personal morals or exceeds their comfort level, or if they consider the omission a significant violation of their trust, the other person has the right to stop associating with you.
I also want to address the whole #NotAllChangelings thing. By all appearances, the author's intent here was to write a Tumblr-tier fable about how you shouldn't judge an entire race by the actions of a few of its members because blah blah friendship. However, in this case, we're not just talking about a "few" changelings misbehaving. Twilight's experience with changelings at this point is that they are a hivemind race of parasitic creatures that feed off the emotions of others. She has encountered an entire swarm of them, and they all behave this way. She has not encountered one that doesn't. Thus, she would have no reason to hold anything but a negative view of them. Even if it did turn out that her friend Fluttershy has been a changeling the entire time, it doesn't exonerate changelings so much as it calls into question the loyalty and motivations of Fluttershy. If she is a changeling, why didn't she tell her friends before? Why is she in Ponyville, masquerading as one of them? Was there ever a "real" Fluttershy, and if so, what happened to her? The whole episode opens up so many questions, any one of which would have made a more interesting story premise than this weak-brew lecture about racism. And, on top of everything else, after introducing the possibility, Fluttershy never actually says whether or not she's a changeling, she just leaves Twilight to wonder about it. So, there's only two possibilities. The first is that Fluttershy is a changeling, and all the previously stated questions deserve to be asked. The second is that Fluttershy is not a changeling, and only posed the question to expose Twilight's (fully justified) prejudice, for no other reason than so she could walk away feeling morally superior. Either way, Fluttershy comes across as a cunt.
>>203545
Bonus Round, even if there never was a "Real" Fluttershy and Changeling number 696912345 of Hive R34 simply spied on Ponyville one day while disguised as a random bird, thinking to herself, "I like her fur colour. I like her mane. No, her mane! Her mane's better. But I'll make it the colour of her coat. Ooh, that's a nice Cutie Mark. Three sweets. I'll give my fake pony a mark like that. I like birds so I'll make mine three Butterflies. And for a name... Did she just call Photo Finish a Shutterfly? That word is hilarious! Right, my name is Fluttershy now! I am Fluttershy the shy pony, and I love animals, especially the butterflies on my ass", it would mean that the Fluttershy personality and body are as fake as fake can be.
Both are, by definition, fake.
And even if this really is Changeling number 696912345's personality, it's not her body. Instead of having to prove herself as a Good Changeling, she took the coward's way out and pretended to be a pony to make life easier on herself. Hiding her true self from view because she knows its repulsive. Is there anything more Changeling-y? Besides kidnapping and sucking the life of victims.
Bonus Round, even if there never was a "Real" Fluttershy and Changeling number 696912345 of Hive R34 simply spied on Ponyville one day while disguised as a random bird, thinking to herself, "I like her fur colour. I like her mane. No, her mane! Her mane's better. But I'll make it the colour of her coat. Ooh, that's a nice Cutie Mark. Three sweets. I'll give my fake pony a mark like that. I like birds so I'll make mine three Butterflies. And for a name... Did she just call Photo Finish a Shutterfly? That word is hilarious! Right, my name is Fluttershy now! I am Fluttershy the shy pony, and I love animals, especially the butterflies on my ass", it would mean that the Fluttershy personality and body are as fake as fake can be.
Both are, by definition, fake.
And even if this really is Changeling number 696912345's personality, it's not her body. Instead of having to prove herself as a Good Changeling, she took the coward's way out and pretended to be a pony to make life easier on herself. Hiding her true self from view because she knows its repulsive. Is there anything more Changeling-y? Besides kidnapping and sucking the life of victims.
File (): 1FB9D7DA167322543927BA3885A5F726-37813.png (36.9 KB, 380x380, noggin joggin.png)
>>203553
Now that I think about it, Fluttershy being a changeling would pretty much negate her entire backstory. Since she could have chosen to be anything or anyone in Ponyville, that means she deliberately crafted the persona of a weak, skittish Pegasus afraid of flying, who then deliberately fails at a race just so she can "discover" her calling as a butterfly-whisperer. She's basically been emotionally manipulating everyone in Ponyville for years. Her friends have all been taking time out of their lives to help her overcome her shyness, her fear of flying, her stage fright, and all of it was just an act; she could have easily transformed herself into any pony she wanted to be. Really gets the noggin joggin, I have to say.
>>203537
I can bump those to the front of the list.
Now that I think about it, Fluttershy being a changeling would pretty much negate her entire backstory. Since she could have chosen to be anything or anyone in Ponyville, that means she deliberately crafted the persona of a weak, skittish Pegasus afraid of flying, who then deliberately fails at a race just so she can "discover" her calling as a butterfly-whisperer. She's basically been emotionally manipulating everyone in Ponyville for years. Her friends have all been taking time out of their lives to help her overcome her shyness, her fear of flying, her stage fright, and all of it was just an act; she could have easily transformed herself into any pony she wanted to be. Really gets the noggin joggin, I have to say.
>>203537
I can bump those to the front of the list.
>both Fluttershy and the author approach the question in an extremely cunty way. The time period the show is set in is immediately following the events of the Canterlot wedding. Apart from the whole "Equestria just faced certain doom" thing, Twilight also had to deal with the whole "my ex-babysitter is a royal cunt and she's marrying my brother but nobody believes me when I try to tell them she's a cunt" thing, immediately followed by the whole "oh wait turns out my babysitter isn't a cunt after all, she was just kidnapped by some kind of horse-insect-queen thing that used my babysitter's body to seduce my brother, and it was said insect-horse that was actually the one being a cunt the whole time" thing. So, all in all, Twilight has had a pretty crazy weekend, and probably just wants to clean up her library a bit so she can spend the rest of her time in Canterlot relaxing, no doubt by curling up on the sofa with her dog-eared copy of Silver Star Apple and the Case of the Penetrated Pooper. Then, suddenly, her friend drops this H-Bomb on her out of nowhere. Twilight even mentions this in the story, and yet Fluttershy just keeps on pressing the issue like a sanctimonious cunt.
PREACH! I had to put that story down just because it pissed me off so much in this EXACT regard.
PREACH! I had to put that story down just because it pissed me off so much in this EXACT regard.
>>203545
>>203545
>Even if it did turn out that her friend Fluttershy has been a changeling the entire time, it doesn't exonerate changelings so much as it calls into question the loyalty and motivations of Fluttershy. If she is a changeling, why didn't she tell her friends before? Why is she in Ponyville, masquerading as one of them? Was there ever a "real" Fluttershy, and if so, what happened to her?
Even if these questions have good answers and Fluttershy is the exception, to be suspicious of Fluttershy until she knows better is the most rational approach Twilight can have since she simply doesn't know better at this point and have a lot of experience telling her the opposite.
I am really enjoying this review so far. Is it done or will you continue it?
>>203545
>Even if it did turn out that her friend Fluttershy has been a changeling the entire time, it doesn't exonerate changelings so much as it calls into question the loyalty and motivations of Fluttershy. If she is a changeling, why didn't she tell her friends before? Why is she in Ponyville, masquerading as one of them? Was there ever a "real" Fluttershy, and if so, what happened to her?
Even if these questions have good answers and Fluttershy is the exception, to be suspicious of Fluttershy until she knows better is the most rational approach Twilight can have since she simply doesn't know better at this point and have a lot of experience telling her the opposite.
I am really enjoying this review so far. Is it done or will you continue it?
>>203846
I have probably one or two posts worth of points I'd yet like to make on this story, then I'll probably move on to the next one. I usually do these on one of my days off, I've also got some other projects I'm working on not-mlpol related, plus I'd like to get back to Nigel's thing soon as well. I'll try to aim for weekly updates to this project.
I have probably one or two posts worth of points I'd yet like to make on this story, then I'll probably move on to the next one. I usually do these on one of my days off, I've also got some other projects I'm working on not-mlpol related, plus I'd like to get back to Nigel's thing soon as well. I'll try to aim for weekly updates to this project.
>>204088
>checked
No problem man. I don't mind if you want to try alternating in a certain way. If you have two days a week off, maybe one of them can be focused on reading/reviewing pony works every two weeks, and on the weeks between you can alternate to your other projects.
>checked
No problem man. I don't mind if you want to try alternating in a certain way. If you have two days a week off, maybe one of them can be focused on reading/reviewing pony works every two weeks, and on the weeks between you can alternate to your other projects.
>>202151
Alright, I will do my own review of this fic
The fic already has a problem just in the title. When used to express a hypothetical, "were," rather than "was" is the proper first-person conjugation of the verb "to be" in the English language. This is interesting to me because when I first heard about this fic in a panel at BronyCon, the person talking about it incorrectly stated its title as "Would it matter if I were?" Evidently his memory corrected the grammar of the title.
The first line of the story shows us that actually, the title was the first line, and what we are reading is the second. The story begins in media res, with this question evidently provoked by some statement made by Twilight. The author chose this way of telling the story probably because he thought it would be neat to have the title also be the first line. However, this harms the story because the context in which the question is asked – that is to say, exactly what Twilight said to provoke the question – is never seen by the reader, even though it becomes a part of the argument later.
Twilight gives an answer to Fluttershy’s question that states the obvious: Changelings just 9/11ed Canterlot, so yes, it matters. Fluttershy repeats exactly the same thing back to her, and Twilight confirms “that’s what I just said.” Fluttershy corrects Twilight, stating that actually, Twilight attached a definitive article to her description of the Changelings, whereas Fluttershy omitted the definitive article in her description of Changelings attacking Canterlot. Fluttershy goes on to describe the subtle difference in the meaning of the two statements, as attaching the definitive article makes the descriptor universal and all inclusive, whereas omitting the definitive article from the descriptor “Changeling” allows for the possibility of creatures fitting the descriptor “changeling” but not in the verb “tried to invade all of Equestria.”
And now we get into the biggest problem with the entire fanfic: Fluttershy is a complete cunt in the way she goes about her argument. Fluttershy is literally arguing with Twilight over the meaning of the word “the.” That’s what this entire two paragraphs of dialogue are about. Twilight beginning her sentence with the word “the.” Now, Fluttershy’s grammatical nitpick actually does have a point to it, as use of the word “the” implies that literally every Changeling attacked Canterlot, whereas omitting the word implies the possibility that some did not. But words are merely symbols used to convey intent, and Twilight’s intent was plain enough: she knows that every changeling she knows in existence attacked Canterlot. This should have been evident to Fluttershy when she restated the “corrected” version of the same and Twilight answers “that’s what I meant. Instead Fluttershy decides to attack Twilight by inserting a meaning into twilight’s words that she did not have. I personally find this especially offensive because Fluttershy failed to ask her own question in a grammatically correct form, and is now attacking Twilight’s response over grammar. What the author and Fluttershy should have done was, rather than attacking Twilight’s response for a subtle unintended meaning, simply ask a follow up question. “Alright, fair enough. Now, tell me. Do you think that it is possible that there are some Changelings that did not attack Canterlot?” This would have struck exactly the same point without being confrontational towards Twilight. It would have acknowledged the validity of Twilight’s reasoning while allowing Twilight and the reader to realize that, actually, they have very limited information about Changelings.
Then we get into the next major stumble of the story: an unneeded and distracting reference to real world politics. While Fluttershy is trying to explain in detail the nuances of the word “the,” she talks about “m-word ponies,” a fantastical equivalent to the word “nigger” that no one could possibly miss. It’s the author’s way of saying “lol, you thought we were talking about Changelings? No, we are talking about black people and muslims in America!” It is true that the main purpose for deconstructing the idea that all changelings are evil is to examine the idea of judging individuals by their race or other category. But while comparisons to prejudice in real life will often be in the background in any discussion of this subject, bringing it up at all, and especially, bringing up the political comparison near the beginning of the story is actually harmful to the story’s meaning. If the story had succeeded in deconstructing the idea of judging all Changelings, and then brought up the comparison, then a reader could say to themselves “oh, I guess that it is a good comparison. That helps me think about my own prejudices.” By deconstructing what occurs in literature, the reader is able to then apply the lessons learned to their own beliefs and actions.
\r
Alright, I will do my own review of this fic
The fic already has a problem just in the title. When used to express a hypothetical, "were," rather than "was" is the proper first-person conjugation of the verb "to be" in the English language. This is interesting to me because when I first heard about this fic in a panel at BronyCon, the person talking about it incorrectly stated its title as "Would it matter if I were?" Evidently his memory corrected the grammar of the title.
The first line of the story shows us that actually, the title was the first line, and what we are reading is the second. The story begins in media res, with this question evidently provoked by some statement made by Twilight. The author chose this way of telling the story probably because he thought it would be neat to have the title also be the first line. However, this harms the story because the context in which the question is asked – that is to say, exactly what Twilight said to provoke the question – is never seen by the reader, even though it becomes a part of the argument later.
Twilight gives an answer to Fluttershy’s question that states the obvious: Changelings just 9/11ed Canterlot, so yes, it matters. Fluttershy repeats exactly the same thing back to her, and Twilight confirms “that’s what I just said.” Fluttershy corrects Twilight, stating that actually, Twilight attached a definitive article to her description of the Changelings, whereas Fluttershy omitted the definitive article in her description of Changelings attacking Canterlot. Fluttershy goes on to describe the subtle difference in the meaning of the two statements, as attaching the definitive article makes the descriptor universal and all inclusive, whereas omitting the definitive article from the descriptor “Changeling” allows for the possibility of creatures fitting the descriptor “changeling” but not in the verb “tried to invade all of Equestria.”
And now we get into the biggest problem with the entire fanfic: Fluttershy is a complete cunt in the way she goes about her argument. Fluttershy is literally arguing with Twilight over the meaning of the word “the.” That’s what this entire two paragraphs of dialogue are about. Twilight beginning her sentence with the word “the.” Now, Fluttershy’s grammatical nitpick actually does have a point to it, as use of the word “the” implies that literally every Changeling attacked Canterlot, whereas omitting the word implies the possibility that some did not. But words are merely symbols used to convey intent, and Twilight’s intent was plain enough: she knows that every changeling she knows in existence attacked Canterlot. This should have been evident to Fluttershy when she restated the “corrected” version of the same and Twilight answers “that’s what I meant. Instead Fluttershy decides to attack Twilight by inserting a meaning into twilight’s words that she did not have. I personally find this especially offensive because Fluttershy failed to ask her own question in a grammatically correct form, and is now attacking Twilight’s response over grammar. What the author and Fluttershy should have done was, rather than attacking Twilight’s response for a subtle unintended meaning, simply ask a follow up question. “Alright, fair enough. Now, tell me. Do you think that it is possible that there are some Changelings that did not attack Canterlot?” This would have struck exactly the same point without being confrontational towards Twilight. It would have acknowledged the validity of Twilight’s reasoning while allowing Twilight and the reader to realize that, actually, they have very limited information about Changelings.
Then we get into the next major stumble of the story: an unneeded and distracting reference to real world politics. While Fluttershy is trying to explain in detail the nuances of the word “the,” she talks about “m-word ponies,” a fantastical equivalent to the word “nigger” that no one could possibly miss. It’s the author’s way of saying “lol, you thought we were talking about Changelings? No, we are talking about black people and muslims in America!” It is true that the main purpose for deconstructing the idea that all changelings are evil is to examine the idea of judging individuals by their race or other category. But while comparisons to prejudice in real life will often be in the background in any discussion of this subject, bringing it up at all, and especially, bringing up the political comparison near the beginning of the story is actually harmful to the story’s meaning. If the story had succeeded in deconstructing the idea of judging all Changelings, and then brought up the comparison, then a reader could say to themselves “oh, I guess that it is a good comparison. That helps me think about my own prejudices.” By deconstructing what occurs in literature, the reader is able to then apply the lessons learned to their own beliefs and actions.
\r
>>204106
Continued
Compare also how the actual show handled the same issue. When Spike sings his ballad of how “A Changeling can change,” he deconstructs the presumption that all Changelings are evil. Many watchers of the show compare this to their own prejudices, but the show never makes these comparisons itself, leaving it to the viewer to ponder the meaning of what they just saw themselves. Instead of either of those two approaches, this fanfiction tells the viewer near the beginning of the argument that assuming Changelings are evil is the same thing as racism. Rather than deconstructing the literature and inviting the reader to apply the lessons, this invites the reader to use their own opinions on the subject of racism in judging the argument “should we assume all Changelings are evil.” It’s putting the cart before the horse, and destroys the potential of the story by prejudicing the readers to a particular side of the argument of the story, rather than actually evaluating the arguments on their own merits. After all, there could be many valid reasons for affirming prejudice in the case of Changelings that do not apply in real-life. This section also paints Twilight as the evil racist earth pony hater by her seeming failure to recognize how offensive the term “mud pony” is.
And now we get on to what I think was the biggest flaw with this fanfiction: Fluttershy is bizarrely insistent on pursuing this argument even as Twilight explicitly states that she is not in a proper emotional condition to do so after learning her brother was raped. After Twilight responds to Fluttershy changing the subject by talking about relations between the pony races, Fluttershy angrily tells Twilight “don’t change the subject.” I’ll repost the whole response by Twilight here:
>”Look, Fluttershy. This isn’t the time. Okay? I’m still picking changeling goo out of my hooves. My brother and foalsitter are still traumatized from being mind controlled and kidnapped. I’m pretty sure the changeling queen made Shining… sleep with her. And he’s not taking it terribly well. Not well at all. So if you want to have a philosophical debate later, sure, but this isn’t funny.”
This statement seems to me to be a very persuasive argument as to why Fluttershy should not pursue this argument at the moment. Twilight has said that she is traumatized, and needs space, so back off. Imagine if this were a real life argument where a person’s sister had been raped by a Muslim immigrant, and now the person is saying something about all Muslims being bad. If you wish to try to change their minds on that, you don’t do it literally the next day when emotions are still high. You wait until the person has calmed down and talk about it them gently. You certainly don’t anally make an argument about the meaning of the word “the,” and force the subject after they explain that they are not in the proper state of mind. The way Fluttershy forces the issue makes it seem like she is taking rape and kidnapping lightly. This fic was written in 2015, several seasons after “A Canterlot Wedding.” There was no need to set this fic the day after a Canterlot Wedding. Why did the author chose this?
Fluttershy does not back off at Twilight’s relatively angry request, but continues the questioning, letting Twilight know she’s “not joking” about the question. Then she continues the “hypothetical” talking specifically about her:
>” I mean, if I was going to betray you, I’ve had ample opportunity. So I think at this point, I’ve proven by my actions that my friendship is real.” She swallowed. “So. If it did turn out that I was a changeling the whole time. Would it matter?”
If these questions were asked for any other intent than because Fluttershy was going to reveal to Twilight that she is, indeed, a disguised Changeling, these lines are utterly bizarre. Fluttershy gives a long list of reasons why she is nothing at all like a Changeling as known and understood by Twilight. In fact, from what they know about Changelings, it seems as if these are a long list of reasons why Fluttershy couldn’t be a Changeling. If it then turned out that Fluttershy actually were a Changeling, it could only be because the race of Changelings are something other than as they are understood. Fluttershy is the element of kindness, which means she is an exemplar of altruistic love. As Changelings are, or were, understood, they have a natural deficit of love that is reflected in the very appearance of their bodies. The holes in their legs represent how they are incomplete, nearly decaying without their own ability to love. Thus, a Changeling that is not only capable of giving love, but so naturally good at it as to be recognized by the Elements of Harmony as a paragon of kindness is, well, directly antithetical to everything that is known and understood about Changelings.
Fluttershy is basically asking “If a Changeling were completely good and not evil at all, would you still not want them around?” Well, the entire reason why Twilight doesn’t want Changelings around is that after having met a thousand Changelings, she’s never yet met one who hasn’t directly attempted to harm her, her friends, her brother, her sister-in-law, and her entire country and race of creatures. She has no reason to believe that Changelings are even biologically capable of being good. After all, they feed on love. While this is mysterious and we only ever see one love drained creature – Shining Armor, who is left looking like a zombie – the implication is that Changelings are, by nature, parasites or vampires and cannot be otherwise. The only real answer Twilight can give to this question is “If the facts change, I may change my mind. Until that time, I have see reason at all to believe that somepony like you could even be a Changeling.” Fluttershy’s only argument is “well, you don’t know,” despite the fact that Twilight got one hell of a lesson on Changeling nature the day before.
\r
Continued
Compare also how the actual show handled the same issue. When Spike sings his ballad of how “A Changeling can change,” he deconstructs the presumption that all Changelings are evil. Many watchers of the show compare this to their own prejudices, but the show never makes these comparisons itself, leaving it to the viewer to ponder the meaning of what they just saw themselves. Instead of either of those two approaches, this fanfiction tells the viewer near the beginning of the argument that assuming Changelings are evil is the same thing as racism. Rather than deconstructing the literature and inviting the reader to apply the lessons, this invites the reader to use their own opinions on the subject of racism in judging the argument “should we assume all Changelings are evil.” It’s putting the cart before the horse, and destroys the potential of the story by prejudicing the readers to a particular side of the argument of the story, rather than actually evaluating the arguments on their own merits. After all, there could be many valid reasons for affirming prejudice in the case of Changelings that do not apply in real-life. This section also paints Twilight as the evil racist earth pony hater by her seeming failure to recognize how offensive the term “mud pony” is.
And now we get on to what I think was the biggest flaw with this fanfiction: Fluttershy is bizarrely insistent on pursuing this argument even as Twilight explicitly states that she is not in a proper emotional condition to do so after learning her brother was raped. After Twilight responds to Fluttershy changing the subject by talking about relations between the pony races, Fluttershy angrily tells Twilight “don’t change the subject.” I’ll repost the whole response by Twilight here:
>”Look, Fluttershy. This isn’t the time. Okay? I’m still picking changeling goo out of my hooves. My brother and foalsitter are still traumatized from being mind controlled and kidnapped. I’m pretty sure the changeling queen made Shining… sleep with her. And he’s not taking it terribly well. Not well at all. So if you want to have a philosophical debate later, sure, but this isn’t funny.”
This statement seems to me to be a very persuasive argument as to why Fluttershy should not pursue this argument at the moment. Twilight has said that she is traumatized, and needs space, so back off. Imagine if this were a real life argument where a person’s sister had been raped by a Muslim immigrant, and now the person is saying something about all Muslims being bad. If you wish to try to change their minds on that, you don’t do it literally the next day when emotions are still high. You wait until the person has calmed down and talk about it them gently. You certainly don’t anally make an argument about the meaning of the word “the,” and force the subject after they explain that they are not in the proper state of mind. The way Fluttershy forces the issue makes it seem like she is taking rape and kidnapping lightly. This fic was written in 2015, several seasons after “A Canterlot Wedding.” There was no need to set this fic the day after a Canterlot Wedding. Why did the author chose this?
Fluttershy does not back off at Twilight’s relatively angry request, but continues the questioning, letting Twilight know she’s “not joking” about the question. Then she continues the “hypothetical” talking specifically about her:
>” I mean, if I was going to betray you, I’ve had ample opportunity. So I think at this point, I’ve proven by my actions that my friendship is real.” She swallowed. “So. If it did turn out that I was a changeling the whole time. Would it matter?”
If these questions were asked for any other intent than because Fluttershy was going to reveal to Twilight that she is, indeed, a disguised Changeling, these lines are utterly bizarre. Fluttershy gives a long list of reasons why she is nothing at all like a Changeling as known and understood by Twilight. In fact, from what they know about Changelings, it seems as if these are a long list of reasons why Fluttershy couldn’t be a Changeling. If it then turned out that Fluttershy actually were a Changeling, it could only be because the race of Changelings are something other than as they are understood. Fluttershy is the element of kindness, which means she is an exemplar of altruistic love. As Changelings are, or were, understood, they have a natural deficit of love that is reflected in the very appearance of their bodies. The holes in their legs represent how they are incomplete, nearly decaying without their own ability to love. Thus, a Changeling that is not only capable of giving love, but so naturally good at it as to be recognized by the Elements of Harmony as a paragon of kindness is, well, directly antithetical to everything that is known and understood about Changelings.
Fluttershy is basically asking “If a Changeling were completely good and not evil at all, would you still not want them around?” Well, the entire reason why Twilight doesn’t want Changelings around is that after having met a thousand Changelings, she’s never yet met one who hasn’t directly attempted to harm her, her friends, her brother, her sister-in-law, and her entire country and race of creatures. She has no reason to believe that Changelings are even biologically capable of being good. After all, they feed on love. While this is mysterious and we only ever see one love drained creature – Shining Armor, who is left looking like a zombie – the implication is that Changelings are, by nature, parasites or vampires and cannot be otherwise. The only real answer Twilight can give to this question is “If the facts change, I may change my mind. Until that time, I have see reason at all to believe that somepony like you could even be a Changeling.” Fluttershy’s only argument is “well, you don’t know,” despite the fact that Twilight got one hell of a lesson on Changeling nature the day before.
\r
>>204107
Continued.
Twilight, at this point, is catching on to how strange Fluttershy is acting, how assertive she is being, how she’s nervously swallowing when talking about the subject, and how insistent she is on the “would it matter if I were a Changeling,” and swiftly comes to the conclusion that it is not a hypothetical at all. There’s an exchange where Twilight becomes suspicious of Fluttershy and raises her voice, while Fluttershy continually denies being a disguised Changeling, even though there is not really any other reason she would be behaving this way unless it were so. Fluttershy eventually assumes a fighting pose against Twilight that’s kind of like her “YOU WILL LOVE ME” pose at the Gala, and then demands an answer to the question. Twilight asks the question, “if you are not a changeling, then why does it matter?” Fluttershy answers with this paragraph, which I will reapond to point by point:
>”Because you don’t know what happened yesterday, Twilight.”
Yes she does. Changelings invaded Equestria and tried to enslave it. That was the beginning of this entire argument
>”None of us do.”
Citation needed
>”All you know is that a group of changelings attacked you, for some reason, and then were banished.”
That reason is love. Changelings are a race of succubi, they feed on love, and wanted to take it from Equestria
>”You don’t know where they’re from,”
Why does that matter?
>”or what they’re like,”
They are Shapeshifting insectoid succubi who lack love and friendship. They are capable of looking and sounding like ponies, but they are always rude. Kind of like Fluttershy now, actually.
>”or even really why they did it”
Because they feed on love and “Equestria has more love than any place I’ve ever seen”
>”unless you count the queen’s puffed up monologue, which you shouldn't”
Citation needed. Why would we think that she was lying about Changelings being succubi? Everypony saw what Shining Armor looked like. There is no reason to doubt that part of her speech
And now, we get on to precisely why the decision to start the story in media res was a terrible idea. Fluttershy accuses Twilight of calling Changelings “evil shapeshifters” which Twilight denies. And thus the reader understands that Fluttershy is not asking her question out of nowhere, there was a longer conversation that the reader is not privy to that provoked the question out of Fluttershy. And given that the timing of the debate is questionable, the reader needs to know how Twilight provoked the question in order to judge whether Fluttershy is being completely unfair in forcing the issue. But we never know exactly what was said, and the two ponies themselves can’t agree what was said. Fluttershy claims that Twilight said something along the lines of “I would be horrified to discover that one of my friends was a Changeling,” and that provoked it. Why couldn’t the story have started with that? Why is that information kept from the reader? I want to know just exactly how justified Fluttershy is in forcing the conversation now, at this exact time, while Twilight is still traumatized by the kidnapping, rape, and mindcontrol of her loved ones, and her country being Pearl Habor-ed/9/11-ed.
After Fluttershy says something like “your emotions are valid except that they are not,” Twilight asks Fluttershy “are you saying there are there are other Changeling swarms that aren’t evil?” This question highlights just how little has been accomplished in the argument so far. Both characters are extremely emotional. Twilight is angry, Fluttershy is nervous and also angry, both characters are on the verge of a physical confrontation, and they have only now asked a question that should have been the first thing Fluttershy said instead of her arguments about the meaning of the word “the” and mud ponies.
Fluttershy answers that she doesn’t think the Changelings who tried to enslave Equestria were evil, to which Twilight responds with the obvious, and assumes a sort of fighting stance. Something happens in how they are standing that is kind of hard to follow, but results in Twilight backing off. Fluttershy basically says that the Changelings were “just following the orders” of an evil queen. The good old Adolf Eichman defense. “I wasn’t intending to do harm, I was just following the orders of someone who did intend bad things.”
>”Maybe they’re really loyal to their hive. You don’t know.”
Maybe those Imperial Japanese soldiers are just really loyal to their emperor. You don’t know. You shouldn’t be angry at them for war crimes in China and the Philippines, because they were just following orders.
Alright, I am not nearly done, but I do need to stop for now
Continued.
Twilight, at this point, is catching on to how strange Fluttershy is acting, how assertive she is being, how she’s nervously swallowing when talking about the subject, and how insistent she is on the “would it matter if I were a Changeling,” and swiftly comes to the conclusion that it is not a hypothetical at all. There’s an exchange where Twilight becomes suspicious of Fluttershy and raises her voice, while Fluttershy continually denies being a disguised Changeling, even though there is not really any other reason she would be behaving this way unless it were so. Fluttershy eventually assumes a fighting pose against Twilight that’s kind of like her “YOU WILL LOVE ME” pose at the Gala, and then demands an answer to the question. Twilight asks the question, “if you are not a changeling, then why does it matter?” Fluttershy answers with this paragraph, which I will reapond to point by point:
>”Because you don’t know what happened yesterday, Twilight.”
Yes she does. Changelings invaded Equestria and tried to enslave it. That was the beginning of this entire argument
>”None of us do.”
Citation needed
>”All you know is that a group of changelings attacked you, for some reason, and then were banished.”
That reason is love. Changelings are a race of succubi, they feed on love, and wanted to take it from Equestria
>”You don’t know where they’re from,”
Why does that matter?
>”or what they’re like,”
They are Shapeshifting insectoid succubi who lack love and friendship. They are capable of looking and sounding like ponies, but they are always rude. Kind of like Fluttershy now, actually.
>”or even really why they did it”
Because they feed on love and “Equestria has more love than any place I’ve ever seen”
>”unless you count the queen’s puffed up monologue, which you shouldn't”
Citation needed. Why would we think that she was lying about Changelings being succubi? Everypony saw what Shining Armor looked like. There is no reason to doubt that part of her speech
And now, we get on to precisely why the decision to start the story in media res was a terrible idea. Fluttershy accuses Twilight of calling Changelings “evil shapeshifters” which Twilight denies. And thus the reader understands that Fluttershy is not asking her question out of nowhere, there was a longer conversation that the reader is not privy to that provoked the question out of Fluttershy. And given that the timing of the debate is questionable, the reader needs to know how Twilight provoked the question in order to judge whether Fluttershy is being completely unfair in forcing the issue. But we never know exactly what was said, and the two ponies themselves can’t agree what was said. Fluttershy claims that Twilight said something along the lines of “I would be horrified to discover that one of my friends was a Changeling,” and that provoked it. Why couldn’t the story have started with that? Why is that information kept from the reader? I want to know just exactly how justified Fluttershy is in forcing the conversation now, at this exact time, while Twilight is still traumatized by the kidnapping, rape, and mindcontrol of her loved ones, and her country being Pearl Habor-ed/9/11-ed.
After Fluttershy says something like “your emotions are valid except that they are not,” Twilight asks Fluttershy “are you saying there are there are other Changeling swarms that aren’t evil?” This question highlights just how little has been accomplished in the argument so far. Both characters are extremely emotional. Twilight is angry, Fluttershy is nervous and also angry, both characters are on the verge of a physical confrontation, and they have only now asked a question that should have been the first thing Fluttershy said instead of her arguments about the meaning of the word “the” and mud ponies.
Fluttershy answers that she doesn’t think the Changelings who tried to enslave Equestria were evil, to which Twilight responds with the obvious, and assumes a sort of fighting stance. Something happens in how they are standing that is kind of hard to follow, but results in Twilight backing off. Fluttershy basically says that the Changelings were “just following the orders” of an evil queen. The good old Adolf Eichman defense. “I wasn’t intending to do harm, I was just following the orders of someone who did intend bad things.”
>”Maybe they’re really loyal to their hive. You don’t know.”
Maybe those Imperial Japanese soldiers are just really loyal to their emperor. You don’t know. You shouldn’t be angry at them for war crimes in China and the Philippines, because they were just following orders.
Alright, I am not nearly done, but I do need to stop for now
File (): 7E2EBECCF75CE861C55ACDF6D04DBBBF-54373.jpg (53.1 KB, 736x877, f2050026a3b9acc555f42533f0d0260b.jpg)
>>204107
>Twilight has said that she is traumatized, and needs space, so back off. Imagine if this were a real life argument where a person’s sister had been raped by a Muslim immigrant, and now the person is saying something about all Muslims being bad. If you wish to try to change their minds on that, you don’t do it literally the next day when emotions are still high. You wait until the person has calmed down and talk about it them gently.
This reminds me of that time some Muslim drove down a girl in Stockholm along with some others, I think. And like the very next day or the next week, a Muslim named, Mohammedi, steps on to a scene in the capital and holds a speech against racism. It was fucking absurd. I don't even think he even acknowledged that this girl had died. He seriously started his speech like some rockstar: "Hello Stockholm! *The audience roars* Shout if you love this city! *shouts ring out*" and then he continues his spiel about how they love differences and shit.
>she talks about “m-word ponies,” a fantastical equivalent to the word “nigger” that no one could possibly miss. It’s the author’s way of saying “lol, you thought we were talking about Changelings? No, we are talking about black people and muslims in America!”
This is something I have seen before in these peoples' literature. To be fair, it might be something that everyone who has something to say suffers from. But it really is a common occurrence for, for a lack of a better word, "lefties". They can't be subtle, can they? They always have to have these scenes were their main character soapbox and one-ups some Evul racist or have their villans expose, in the most contrived way, that they have contempt for weakness. Okay, the last one is mostly anime; "The strong should devour the weak, hurr durr!"
>"I would be horrified to discover that one of my friends was a Changeling,”
Yes, that would have been a better title.
>The good old Adolf Eichman defense. “I wasn’t intending to do harm, I was just following the orders of someone who did intend bad things.”
Did he really say that? Didn't he just deny that the holocaust happened?
>Twilight has said that she is traumatized, and needs space, so back off. Imagine if this were a real life argument where a person’s sister had been raped by a Muslim immigrant, and now the person is saying something about all Muslims being bad. If you wish to try to change their minds on that, you don’t do it literally the next day when emotions are still high. You wait until the person has calmed down and talk about it them gently.
This reminds me of that time some Muslim drove down a girl in Stockholm along with some others, I think. And like the very next day or the next week, a Muslim named, Mohammedi, steps on to a scene in the capital and holds a speech against racism. It was fucking absurd. I don't even think he even acknowledged that this girl had died. He seriously started his speech like some rockstar: "Hello Stockholm! *The audience roars* Shout if you love this city! *shouts ring out*" and then he continues his spiel about how they love differences and shit.
>she talks about “m-word ponies,” a fantastical equivalent to the word “nigger” that no one could possibly miss. It’s the author’s way of saying “lol, you thought we were talking about Changelings? No, we are talking about black people and muslims in America!”
This is something I have seen before in these peoples' literature. To be fair, it might be something that everyone who has something to say suffers from. But it really is a common occurrence for, for a lack of a better word, "lefties". They can't be subtle, can they? They always have to have these scenes were their main character soapbox and one-ups some Evul racist or have their villans expose, in the most contrived way, that they have contempt for weakness. Okay, the last one is mostly anime; "The strong should devour the weak, hurr durr!"
>"I would be horrified to discover that one of my friends was a Changeling,”
Yes, that would have been a better title.
>The good old Adolf Eichman defense. “I wasn’t intending to do harm, I was just following the orders of someone who did intend bad things.”
Did he really say that? Didn't he just deny that the holocaust happened?
File (): B12C66DA7DF1B6A2914DB3937924E51E-62720.jpg (61.3 KB, 562x600, skadeglädje.jpg)
>>202577
Np, also thanks for the guide on finding Paradise's chapters.
>>202398
>but what can I say? I'm having fun.
*Me agreeing in some fashion* That is great.
>>203253
Hehe, oh man. Only our elite can truly comprehend the genius that's Sonic. I pride myself on the fandoms I am part of. I think to myself, "Ha, I am the real deal, normalfags!" However, even though I make weebs cringe because have foot in the Pokemon fandom and cartoon enthusiasts scoff at me for liking, "My Little Pony", I am sad to say that I have never truly understood the charm of Sonic the Hedgehog. I feel as only the truly chosen ones can understand this masterpiece. They are the creme de la creme of autism.
While I am gloating like a faggot, I do want to say that this scene right here >>> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qYWC6ob8uA0 is epic.
>>204110
I like these reviews, man and I hope you keep them up. How does your prognosis look for the future? Are you going to be able to post anytime soon? I am not trying to rush you or anything, take your time.
Also, I think the conversion bureau was a thing too.
https://www.fimfiction.net/group/26/the-conversion-bureau
The original fic was made by someone named Blaze. I will return with a link to it later when I find it.
Np, also thanks for the guide on finding Paradise's chapters.
>>202398
>but what can I say? I'm having fun.
*Me agreeing in some fashion* That is great.
>>203253
Hehe, oh man. Only our elite can truly comprehend the genius that's Sonic. I pride myself on the fandoms I am part of. I think to myself, "Ha, I am the real deal, normalfags!" However, even though I make weebs cringe because have foot in the Pokemon fandom and cartoon enthusiasts scoff at me for liking, "My Little Pony", I am sad to say that I have never truly understood the charm of Sonic the Hedgehog. I feel as only the truly chosen ones can understand this masterpiece. They are the creme de la creme of autism.
While I am gloating like a faggot, I do want to say that this scene right here >>> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qYWC6ob8uA0 is epic.
>>204110
I like these reviews, man and I hope you keep them up. How does your prognosis look for the future? Are you going to be able to post anytime soon? I am not trying to rush you or anything, take your time.
Also, I think the conversion bureau was a thing too.
https://www.fimfiction.net/group/26/the-conversion-bureau
The original fic was made by someone named Blaze. I will return with a link to it later when I find it.
File (): 8634B8D23D846498C51E43ABDE2234F9-244355.png (238.6 KB, 594x612, j4q7q74p.png)
>>204136
I'm here. I had actually written even more, but then didn't post it after I realized I made an interpretive error in the story and needed to rewrite some of my analysis. I also read the entirety of Hannah Arendt's "Eichman in Jerusalem: a Report on the Banalty of Evil" in the time between your asking the question about Adolf Eichman and the present. 316 pages plus a lengthy forward and a lengthy epilogue, so I may as well do a kind of review on that one as well.
I'm here. I had actually written even more, but then didn't post it after I realized I made an interpretive error in the story and needed to rewrite some of my analysis. I also read the entirety of Hannah Arendt's "Eichman in Jerusalem: a Report on the Banalty of Evil" in the time between your asking the question about Adolf Eichman and the present. 316 pages plus a lengthy forward and a lengthy epilogue, so I may as well do a kind of review on that one as well.
File (): 132D88CA248D5E0DF9D623D1AAF76469-157381.jpg (153.7 KB, 1221x767, 395372.jpg)
>>204110
Continued. I may as well post what I already have written for this, even as it is not complete.
For some reason, the author spends many lines throughout the story describing Fluttershy doing house cleaning, as if she’s trying to be nonchalant about a conversation that the dialogue makes obvious is more important to Fluttershy than…. basically any discussion that has taken place in the entire series. At this point, the charade finally stops and Fluttershy can no longer pretend to be more interested in cleaning than in the conversation. She makes basically a one sentence summary of her entire argument in this fan fic:
>“You don’t know [much about the nature of Changelings] and you shouldn't make decisions on the assumption that you do.”
Basically, you can’t be mean to Changelings until you know everything. This is, strangely enough, an almost perfect inversion of the moral of the episodes of the show this fan fiction is based around. In “A Canterlot Wedding,” everypony is willing to give Cadance every benefit of a doubt, excusing her bad behaviors as based upon whatever other things in her environment. Everypony except of course for Twilight who intuitively picks up on her negative behaviors and is not willing to blindly trust Candance just because of their past history or out of politeness. And it is because of this, and only because of this, that Twilight makes the confrontation of Cadence that causes her to show her hand as actually being the disguised Queen Chrysalis. Had Twilight given Cadance the same benefit of the doubt that everypony else had demanded she give her, then Equestria would have been conquered by Chrysalis, its princesses and elements placed in cocoons, and its subjects slowly turned into lifeless, soulless husks. Twilight, at the exact moment that this story takes place, has had her sense of mistrust vindicated and has every reason to believe that she is justified in not just giving everypony a free pass just on the basis of kindness for the sake of kindness.
The kind of deference that Fluttershy is commanding, almost to the point of physical violence, that Twilight give to hypothetical changelings is far greater than the deference that she was proven prescient for not extending to her alleged former foal sitter and childhood friend. If there is value in not presuming without ever having met a person… err, changeling, that they are irredeemably evil, then there is even more value in not assuming without ever having met them that they could not mean harm. If Twilight had done what Fluttershy commanded, Equestria would have been doomed. Ironically, Twilight has already demonstrated that it doesn’t matter to her who you are on the outside, only how you behave and who you reveal yourself to be on the inside. She didn’t care that the disguised Chrysalis was, as far as she knew, an alicorn princess, her old friend and foal sitter, or her future sister in law. All she cared about was that she was acting like a complete jerk.
Anyways, back to the story. Twilight confronts Fluttershy for acting like a complete jerk, pointing out that unless the topic is relevant because she really is a Changeling, then there is not really a reason to force this issue now. And in response, Fluttershy makes the most outrageous claim of the fic
>”Because if I wait, it will be too late… If you and Shining and Cadence and Celestia and Luna go off and talk about how we need to… I don’t know. Start drawing ponies’ blood or pulling out their hair to see if they’re really shapeshifters..”
Fluttershy is accusing Twilight of intending to organize Changeling internment camps. Where the hell is this coming from? Where is Fluttershy getting the idea that they would do that? By the tine this fic was written, it was season five, or more than two entire seasons after a Canterlot Wedding, and no such Korematsu type roundup took place in the cannon, so where does this come from? Maybe Twilight had made some statements earlier in the conversation before the fic starts suggesting that she would indeed place the Changelings in camps like she were FDR with the Japanese, but we aren’t privy to those statements. In any case, there’s not really a persuasive reason why this conversation couldn’t wait until somepony had actually suggested Changeling internment camps. At least waiting until such time would allow the accusation to have solid ground to stand on, and Twilight would, you know, actually be in a rational and cool state of mind and not just the “my brother just got raped you insensitive cunt” mood that she is right now.
>” I mean, if Derpy or Bon Bon or someone turned out to be a changeling all along. Would we sit down and have a nice chat about what that meant?”
Why wouldn’t you? After all, you’re having a nice chat about what it would mean if you were a changeling, so why couldn’t the same be done for Bon Bon or Derpy? Bob Bon and Derpy are better hypotheticals for the question of “what if x were a changeling?” because less is known about them, and consequently it would require breaking fewer laws about what is known about Changelings in order for them to be Changelings. Fluttershy is known well enough that she probably isn’t secretly entirely draining the life force of a new victim every two weeks and feeding the husks to bears. Probably. And she’s probably not secretly a spy. Probably. Bon Bon and Derpy however… well, who knows? In fact, in the 100th episode, Bon Bon alleges that she is a spy for S.M.I.L.E., so it’s not all that farfetched. It is worth noting that during this part of the argument, Fluttershy has returned to pretending to do cleaning work. Why the author is so obsessed with house cleaning, I don’t know.
Continued. I may as well post what I already have written for this, even as it is not complete.
For some reason, the author spends many lines throughout the story describing Fluttershy doing house cleaning, as if she’s trying to be nonchalant about a conversation that the dialogue makes obvious is more important to Fluttershy than…. basically any discussion that has taken place in the entire series. At this point, the charade finally stops and Fluttershy can no longer pretend to be more interested in cleaning than in the conversation. She makes basically a one sentence summary of her entire argument in this fan fic:
>“You don’t know [much about the nature of Changelings] and you shouldn't make decisions on the assumption that you do.”
Basically, you can’t be mean to Changelings until you know everything. This is, strangely enough, an almost perfect inversion of the moral of the episodes of the show this fan fiction is based around. In “A Canterlot Wedding,” everypony is willing to give Cadance every benefit of a doubt, excusing her bad behaviors as based upon whatever other things in her environment. Everypony except of course for Twilight who intuitively picks up on her negative behaviors and is not willing to blindly trust Candance just because of their past history or out of politeness. And it is because of this, and only because of this, that Twilight makes the confrontation of Cadence that causes her to show her hand as actually being the disguised Queen Chrysalis. Had Twilight given Cadance the same benefit of the doubt that everypony else had demanded she give her, then Equestria would have been conquered by Chrysalis, its princesses and elements placed in cocoons, and its subjects slowly turned into lifeless, soulless husks. Twilight, at the exact moment that this story takes place, has had her sense of mistrust vindicated and has every reason to believe that she is justified in not just giving everypony a free pass just on the basis of kindness for the sake of kindness.
The kind of deference that Fluttershy is commanding, almost to the point of physical violence, that Twilight give to hypothetical changelings is far greater than the deference that she was proven prescient for not extending to her alleged former foal sitter and childhood friend. If there is value in not presuming without ever having met a person… err, changeling, that they are irredeemably evil, then there is even more value in not assuming without ever having met them that they could not mean harm. If Twilight had done what Fluttershy commanded, Equestria would have been doomed. Ironically, Twilight has already demonstrated that it doesn’t matter to her who you are on the outside, only how you behave and who you reveal yourself to be on the inside. She didn’t care that the disguised Chrysalis was, as far as she knew, an alicorn princess, her old friend and foal sitter, or her future sister in law. All she cared about was that she was acting like a complete jerk.
Anyways, back to the story. Twilight confronts Fluttershy for acting like a complete jerk, pointing out that unless the topic is relevant because she really is a Changeling, then there is not really a reason to force this issue now. And in response, Fluttershy makes the most outrageous claim of the fic
>”Because if I wait, it will be too late… If you and Shining and Cadence and Celestia and Luna go off and talk about how we need to… I don’t know. Start drawing ponies’ blood or pulling out their hair to see if they’re really shapeshifters..”
Fluttershy is accusing Twilight of intending to organize Changeling internment camps. Where the hell is this coming from? Where is Fluttershy getting the idea that they would do that? By the tine this fic was written, it was season five, or more than two entire seasons after a Canterlot Wedding, and no such Korematsu type roundup took place in the cannon, so where does this come from? Maybe Twilight had made some statements earlier in the conversation before the fic starts suggesting that she would indeed place the Changelings in camps like she were FDR with the Japanese, but we aren’t privy to those statements. In any case, there’s not really a persuasive reason why this conversation couldn’t wait until somepony had actually suggested Changeling internment camps. At least waiting until such time would allow the accusation to have solid ground to stand on, and Twilight would, you know, actually be in a rational and cool state of mind and not just the “my brother just got raped you insensitive cunt” mood that she is right now.
>” I mean, if Derpy or Bon Bon or someone turned out to be a changeling all along. Would we sit down and have a nice chat about what that meant?”
Why wouldn’t you? After all, you’re having a nice chat about what it would mean if you were a changeling, so why couldn’t the same be done for Bon Bon or Derpy? Bob Bon and Derpy are better hypotheticals for the question of “what if x were a changeling?” because less is known about them, and consequently it would require breaking fewer laws about what is known about Changelings in order for them to be Changelings. Fluttershy is known well enough that she probably isn’t secretly entirely draining the life force of a new victim every two weeks and feeding the husks to bears. Probably. And she’s probably not secretly a spy. Probably. Bon Bon and Derpy however… well, who knows? In fact, in the 100th episode, Bon Bon alleges that she is a spy for S.M.I.L.E., so it’s not all that farfetched. It is worth noting that during this part of the argument, Fluttershy has returned to pretending to do cleaning work. Why the author is so obsessed with house cleaning, I don’t know.
File (): CD1B2692FD1E6BD59107BA108E5BFBD5-81046.jpg (79.1 KB, 334x250, Executive Order 9066.jpeg)
>>205833
And the author’s version of Twilight, rather than acting like any rational Twilight and saying “where the hell are you getting that idea from?” instead asks “why do you care?” as if to say “Yes, we will be testing every pony in Equestria to see if they are Changelings and then send them to death, I mean, happy camps. Why do you care?” If we are being generous to this writing of Twilight, she is ignoring Fluttershy’s accusations entirely because she is convinced the only reason Fluttershy could be bringing this up is because she is a changeling.
Fluttershy responds with
>“Oh, gosh. Why would I care that you might be condemning an innocent creature because of its race?”
I don’t think I have seen Fluttershy be that bitchy in any episode outside of her Discorded version. Not even “Putting Your Hoof Down.” Both Fluttershy and Twilight, in their following lines, explicitly state how out of character Fluttershy is. But lampshading how poor your writing of a mane six character is does not make the writing any less poor, it just shows that you know better. Twilight eventually gets the nervous swallows as well, and becomes evidently afraid as she realizes that her “friend” is actually a soul eating succubus who may or may not be a spy for a foreign hostile power. The evidence against Fluttershy is that she surrounds herself with animals that love her, perhaps to feed on, she has “ a nasty side,” and she has the stare, which this fic wants to interpret as maybe being Changeling mind control powers.
Twilight directly asks Fluttershy “are you a Changeling?” and Fluttershy responds, again, only with her initial question: “would it matter if I was [sic]?” Now if the next scene of the fic had been Fluttershy changing shape, and revealing herself to have secretly been Ocellus all along, or some other similar mild mannered Changeling, I would say that Fluttershy’s behavior to this point had built up to a decent enough explanation, and the fic could finally begin to explore the question embodied in the title in actual depth. Instead, we get a formal physical confrontation. Twilight has her horn lowered at Fluttershy’s back like she’s about to blast her away. Then this happens:
>”Fluttershy looked back at Twilight. Her eyes were wide, but not like Twilight’s had been. They weren’t dilated with fear or alarm. She simply seemed to stare at Twilight very intently, and Twilight took a half-step back.”
And Twilight’s response:
>“No, it… no. It wouldn't matter,” Twilight said. “It would be weird, sure. But… well. Like you said. You’ve proven you’re really my friend. It doesn’t matter if you’re an earth pony, or a pegasus, or a giant bug. The friendship is what matters. I’m just um… just a little uncomfortable with it.” She cleared her throat. “Heh.”
Twilight has gone from leveling her horn at Fluttershy in a threatening manner to seemingly agreeing with Fluttershy in the span of a few seconds. Twilight is clearly nervous after this, as evidenced by the “heh,” and given how the fic ends, her conversion to Fluttershy’s point of view is insincere. And thus we have the second great ambiguity of the fic: did Fluttershy use her “stare,” which may or may not be Changeling mind control powers, on Twilight? I think the preponderance of the evidence says yes. She did physically intimidate or even mind control Twilight. Twilight points her horn at Fluttershy, Fluttershy ‘stares intently at her,’ Twilight suddenly and inexplicably says the exact opposite of her position over the entire fic thus far, and let’s out a nervous ‘heh.’ All of this, before showing that she is not satisfied at the end. These seem to me to be the actions of an intimidated or possibly mind-influenced individual.
These are fluttershy’s next words, and I want you to read them on the understanding that Fluttershy just physically intimidated or mind controlled twilight into backing down:
>“Twilight, I think you’re more than a little uncomfortable.” Fluttershy let out a little half-breath. She even smiled a little
I want to ask you, is this the Fluttershy we know? Is this the Fluttershy who has saved Equestria three times with Twilight, one of her closest friends, who was afraid to use her stare on any creature, and only resorted to it when it was a literal matter of life and death? She is smiling at the fact that she made her own best friend uncomfortable.
Fluttershy, for nearly the first time, acknowledges that Twilight “has been through a lot.” She makes a joke
>”I don’t care if Applejack is an earth pony or a pegasus, but if it turned out she was a pegasus this whole time who just… I don’t know. Had her wings hidden somehow? I know I’d probably freak out”
But this joke is just one of the obvious many reasons why it would matter if Fluttershy were a Changeling. It would mean that she has kept an essential part of her identity secret from her friends this entire time. It would raise many questions. “Why did you keep it a secret from us this whole time? Do you not trust us? What other secrets are you hiding from us? If you could hide something this big, what else would you and could you hide?” Obviously the fic doesn’t acknowledge or address these valid points.
And the author’s version of Twilight, rather than acting like any rational Twilight and saying “where the hell are you getting that idea from?” instead asks “why do you care?” as if to say “Yes, we will be testing every pony in Equestria to see if they are Changelings and then send them to death, I mean, happy camps. Why do you care?” If we are being generous to this writing of Twilight, she is ignoring Fluttershy’s accusations entirely because she is convinced the only reason Fluttershy could be bringing this up is because she is a changeling.
Fluttershy responds with
>“Oh, gosh. Why would I care that you might be condemning an innocent creature because of its race?”
I don’t think I have seen Fluttershy be that bitchy in any episode outside of her Discorded version. Not even “Putting Your Hoof Down.” Both Fluttershy and Twilight, in their following lines, explicitly state how out of character Fluttershy is. But lampshading how poor your writing of a mane six character is does not make the writing any less poor, it just shows that you know better. Twilight eventually gets the nervous swallows as well, and becomes evidently afraid as she realizes that her “friend” is actually a soul eating succubus who may or may not be a spy for a foreign hostile power. The evidence against Fluttershy is that she surrounds herself with animals that love her, perhaps to feed on, she has “ a nasty side,” and she has the stare, which this fic wants to interpret as maybe being Changeling mind control powers.
Twilight directly asks Fluttershy “are you a Changeling?” and Fluttershy responds, again, only with her initial question: “would it matter if I was [sic]?” Now if the next scene of the fic had been Fluttershy changing shape, and revealing herself to have secretly been Ocellus all along, or some other similar mild mannered Changeling, I would say that Fluttershy’s behavior to this point had built up to a decent enough explanation, and the fic could finally begin to explore the question embodied in the title in actual depth. Instead, we get a formal physical confrontation. Twilight has her horn lowered at Fluttershy’s back like she’s about to blast her away. Then this happens:
>”Fluttershy looked back at Twilight. Her eyes were wide, but not like Twilight’s had been. They weren’t dilated with fear or alarm. She simply seemed to stare at Twilight very intently, and Twilight took a half-step back.”
And Twilight’s response:
>“No, it… no. It wouldn't matter,” Twilight said. “It would be weird, sure. But… well. Like you said. You’ve proven you’re really my friend. It doesn’t matter if you’re an earth pony, or a pegasus, or a giant bug. The friendship is what matters. I’m just um… just a little uncomfortable with it.” She cleared her throat. “Heh.”
Twilight has gone from leveling her horn at Fluttershy in a threatening manner to seemingly agreeing with Fluttershy in the span of a few seconds. Twilight is clearly nervous after this, as evidenced by the “heh,” and given how the fic ends, her conversion to Fluttershy’s point of view is insincere. And thus we have the second great ambiguity of the fic: did Fluttershy use her “stare,” which may or may not be Changeling mind control powers, on Twilight? I think the preponderance of the evidence says yes. She did physically intimidate or even mind control Twilight. Twilight points her horn at Fluttershy, Fluttershy ‘stares intently at her,’ Twilight suddenly and inexplicably says the exact opposite of her position over the entire fic thus far, and let’s out a nervous ‘heh.’ All of this, before showing that she is not satisfied at the end. These seem to me to be the actions of an intimidated or possibly mind-influenced individual.
These are fluttershy’s next words, and I want you to read them on the understanding that Fluttershy just physically intimidated or mind controlled twilight into backing down:
>“Twilight, I think you’re more than a little uncomfortable.” Fluttershy let out a little half-breath. She even smiled a little
I want to ask you, is this the Fluttershy we know? Is this the Fluttershy who has saved Equestria three times with Twilight, one of her closest friends, who was afraid to use her stare on any creature, and only resorted to it when it was a literal matter of life and death? She is smiling at the fact that she made her own best friend uncomfortable.
Fluttershy, for nearly the first time, acknowledges that Twilight “has been through a lot.” She makes a joke
>”I don’t care if Applejack is an earth pony or a pegasus, but if it turned out she was a pegasus this whole time who just… I don’t know. Had her wings hidden somehow? I know I’d probably freak out”
But this joke is just one of the obvious many reasons why it would matter if Fluttershy were a Changeling. It would mean that she has kept an essential part of her identity secret from her friends this entire time. It would raise many questions. “Why did you keep it a secret from us this whole time? Do you not trust us? What other secrets are you hiding from us? If you could hide something this big, what else would you and could you hide?” Obviously the fic doesn’t acknowledge or address these valid points.
File (): 8B73476A3CF17562326427B263673A72-742453.png (725.1 KB, 4203x3417, ladda ned (14).png)
>>205833
Lol, I thought you were glimglam. Not because I didn't mean what I said, I did. I like your reviews. I just didn't catch it since you kinda started off where he left off.
Anyway, I guess since there is two of you now. I should direct my question to glimglam as well: Will you be posting again any time soon?
Anyway, the more the merrier I say.
Although, I am not a fan of your name. Crystal Hoof? C'mon man! What about Kikeslayer, Stallioncucker or Mountaindewbinger?
>>205833
Will read this tomorrow. I need to sleep.
Lol, I thought you were glimglam. Not because I didn't mean what I said, I did. I like your reviews. I just didn't catch it since you kinda started off where he left off.
Anyway, I guess since there is two of you now. I should direct my question to glimglam as well: Will you be posting again any time soon?
Anyway, the more the merrier I say.
Although, I am not a fan of your name. Crystal Hoof? C'mon man! What about Kikeslayer, Stallioncucker or Mountaindewbinger?
>>205833
Will read this tomorrow. I need to sleep.
File (): 55E3E13CBD055E184B6791B498C65B55-8077.jpg (7.9 KB, 198x255, E1EB5264-BF63-457D-A42C-A41B8BA933B1.jpeg)
>>205858
Well, I started from the beginning... Also I’m pretty sure glimglam edits his reviews, so he probably makes fewer errors.
>Change the name
Never
Well, I started from the beginning... Also I’m pretty sure glimglam edits his reviews, so he probably makes fewer errors.
>Change the name
Never
File (): 187241F49661E8B67EDD8B28D9AD51C7-611631.png (597.3 KB, 1366x768, Twilight smile.png)
>>205859
I have read the rest of it now. I liked it but I can't go into detail about what I liked right now.
I have read the rest of it now. I liked it but I can't go into detail about what I liked right now.
>>208166
Dunno 'bout you, but I've read every single GlimGlam review so far, as well as some of the other anons' pieces. I'm here even if I stay quiet.
Dunno 'bout you, but I've read every single GlimGlam review so far, as well as some of the other anons' pieces. I'm here even if I stay quiet.
>>208113
Sorry, had some family visiting and some other stuff going on. I'll get back to reviewing shortly.
Sorry, had some family visiting and some other stuff going on. I'll get back to reviewing shortly.
>>209245
He lives!!!
I understand mlpol can't be your life, friend. Take your time maybe post an update every week or two though ;~;
He lives!!!
I understand mlpol can't be your life, friend. Take your time maybe post an update every week or two though ;~;
File (): 6E8C75B0DBFE5945F1DC8B8D4341B098-194309.png (189.8 KB, 1493x1300, 1546916496670.png)
>>209254
I was trying to do them at least weekly, I fell behind though. I'll try to stay more or less on schedule from here on out.
>>209270
Yes, I'm ok. Thank you for your concern. Just busy and distracted.
Anyway, a few final thoughts on "Would It Matter if I Was?" and then we can probably move on to a different story next week.
>>203545
So anyway, we've addressed the story's moral points. Now I'd just like to conclude with a birds-eye view analysis of it as a piece of literature.
All in all, I would say that this story is about 78% effective at grabbing and holding the reader's attention long enough to communicate its point. If I were teaching a creative writing course and this was handed in to me as homework, I'd give it a C+. The writing is not bad as far as fanfiction goes, but it's not good either. Like most fanfiction I've read, it reads like a rough draft that should have been revised heavily before publication. The author seems to me to be a fairly decent amateur writer, who would nonetheless benefit strongly from having his/her work objectively analyzed by someone who isn't going to pull punches or kiss his/her ass (*cough* you're welcome, GaPJaxie).
The story loses a lot of its punch imo by giving away the premise at the very beginning. The actual question posed by Fluttershy is asked prior to the beginning of the story, and we learn what she asked by Twilight's repeating the question in the third paragraph. The loss of punch is made even more tragic by the fact that it really doesn't have that much punch to begin with; most of the story is just Fluttershy lecturing Twilight and Twilight being a strawman.
One might think that writing a piece of flash fiction like this would be an easier task than composing an entire novel or even a long short story. However, something to keep in mind is that the shorter the piece you are writing, the less time you have to engage the reader and tell a complete story. You need to establish characters and a setting and a conflict, then create tension and escalate it until it eventually reaches a climax, then resolve the conflict and end the story in a satisfactory way, all in the space of a few paragraphs. Word economy becomes much more important and you don't want to waste the reader's time with stuff they don't care about. As I mentioned before, this story wastes a lot of time expounding upon things the characters are doing, like picking up dishes and moving them around and so forth, that are less important than the conversation the two characters are having. This is made worse by the conversation itself being tedious and laden with rhetoric, rather than a dynamic exchange between the two characters. Again, I would invite you all to read the parody text I selected and compare the way it handles dialog to the way the original does.
The problem with the story's tension is that there is no tension. Nothing builds, there is no climax, nothing resolves, and nopony really grows. Right off the bat, we get the central question: is Fluttershy a changeling? Even with little introduction or setup, this in itself could still be the basis for an interesting conflict, but the author chooses instead to explore the moral issues surrounding the secondary question: should it matter whether or not she is? Alright, fine; let's roll with that and see where it goes. We get some back and forth between Flutters and Twigglypuff, most of which is Twiggaplease trying to press the question of whether or not Flutterbutter is in fact a changeling, and Flutterrump trying to steer the conversation in the direction of the moral argument. It's like the author can't even make up his mind which idea he'd rather explore. We get some pomposity from Fluttershy, which pretty much amounts to "you don't know why the changelings attacked, so you don't know that they are actually evil (a more interesting moral question, btw, is should this even matter)." This is topped off with a nice dollop of "I'm your friend and I've done nice things and am nice, so if I were a changeling that means you should see changelings as nice, even though I'd be the only nice changeling you've ever met." The whole thing just goes in circles like this for a while, until Fluttershy finally backs Twilight into a corner and forces her to say that no, it wouldn't actually matter to her if one of her closest friends has been lying to her for a period of actual years and may possibly have a secret and potentially malicious agenda for doing so, which she refuses to expound upon. Because, you know, blah blah blah friendship.
In the end, absolutely nothing is concluded or resolved. Once Fluttershy finally corners Twilight and gets her to admit defeat, she just says "Oh btw I'm not a changeling, it was just hypothetical, bye." Although this technically answers the central question, it answers it in a very ambiguous way that deliberately leaves it open. I don't doubt this was done on purpose, in an effort to conclude the story on kind of a spooky note. Not a bad idea, but unfortunately since the story can't quite make up its mind on what it wants to be about, coupled with the fact that most of the "meat" of the story is just a meandering argument going in circles peppered with action-packed descriptions of Fluttershy cleaning Twilight's library, the ending falls flatter than Applebloom's crotchteats. It also doesn't make a whole lot of sense for reasons I've already gone into.
Final verdict: this story is basically a throwaway piece of fiction, maybe good as a writing exercise or a way for the author to get some philosophical ideas out on paper, but not the sort of thing you generally want to publish. The arguments are weak and faulty, the story fails to engage the reader, and the ending resolves nothing and makes Fluttershy come across as a changeling at best and a complete cunt at worst. Sticking with my earlier grade of C+.
Next week: Anal.
I was trying to do them at least weekly, I fell behind though. I'll try to stay more or less on schedule from here on out.
>>209270
Yes, I'm ok. Thank you for your concern. Just busy and distracted.
Anyway, a few final thoughts on "Would It Matter if I Was?" and then we can probably move on to a different story next week.
>>203545
So anyway, we've addressed the story's moral points. Now I'd just like to conclude with a birds-eye view analysis of it as a piece of literature.
All in all, I would say that this story is about 78% effective at grabbing and holding the reader's attention long enough to communicate its point. If I were teaching a creative writing course and this was handed in to me as homework, I'd give it a C+. The writing is not bad as far as fanfiction goes, but it's not good either. Like most fanfiction I've read, it reads like a rough draft that should have been revised heavily before publication. The author seems to me to be a fairly decent amateur writer, who would nonetheless benefit strongly from having his/her work objectively analyzed by someone who isn't going to pull punches or kiss his/her ass (*cough* you're welcome, GaPJaxie).
The story loses a lot of its punch imo by giving away the premise at the very beginning. The actual question posed by Fluttershy is asked prior to the beginning of the story, and we learn what she asked by Twilight's repeating the question in the third paragraph. The loss of punch is made even more tragic by the fact that it really doesn't have that much punch to begin with; most of the story is just Fluttershy lecturing Twilight and Twilight being a strawman.
One might think that writing a piece of flash fiction like this would be an easier task than composing an entire novel or even a long short story. However, something to keep in mind is that the shorter the piece you are writing, the less time you have to engage the reader and tell a complete story. You need to establish characters and a setting and a conflict, then create tension and escalate it until it eventually reaches a climax, then resolve the conflict and end the story in a satisfactory way, all in the space of a few paragraphs. Word economy becomes much more important and you don't want to waste the reader's time with stuff they don't care about. As I mentioned before, this story wastes a lot of time expounding upon things the characters are doing, like picking up dishes and moving them around and so forth, that are less important than the conversation the two characters are having. This is made worse by the conversation itself being tedious and laden with rhetoric, rather than a dynamic exchange between the two characters. Again, I would invite you all to read the parody text I selected and compare the way it handles dialog to the way the original does.
The problem with the story's tension is that there is no tension. Nothing builds, there is no climax, nothing resolves, and nopony really grows. Right off the bat, we get the central question: is Fluttershy a changeling? Even with little introduction or setup, this in itself could still be the basis for an interesting conflict, but the author chooses instead to explore the moral issues surrounding the secondary question: should it matter whether or not she is? Alright, fine; let's roll with that and see where it goes. We get some back and forth between Flutters and Twigglypuff, most of which is Twiggaplease trying to press the question of whether or not Flutterbutter is in fact a changeling, and Flutterrump trying to steer the conversation in the direction of the moral argument. It's like the author can't even make up his mind which idea he'd rather explore. We get some pomposity from Fluttershy, which pretty much amounts to "you don't know why the changelings attacked, so you don't know that they are actually evil (a more interesting moral question, btw, is should this even matter)." This is topped off with a nice dollop of "I'm your friend and I've done nice things and am nice, so if I were a changeling that means you should see changelings as nice, even though I'd be the only nice changeling you've ever met." The whole thing just goes in circles like this for a while, until Fluttershy finally backs Twilight into a corner and forces her to say that no, it wouldn't actually matter to her if one of her closest friends has been lying to her for a period of actual years and may possibly have a secret and potentially malicious agenda for doing so, which she refuses to expound upon. Because, you know, blah blah blah friendship.
In the end, absolutely nothing is concluded or resolved. Once Fluttershy finally corners Twilight and gets her to admit defeat, she just says "Oh btw I'm not a changeling, it was just hypothetical, bye." Although this technically answers the central question, it answers it in a very ambiguous way that deliberately leaves it open. I don't doubt this was done on purpose, in an effort to conclude the story on kind of a spooky note. Not a bad idea, but unfortunately since the story can't quite make up its mind on what it wants to be about, coupled with the fact that most of the "meat" of the story is just a meandering argument going in circles peppered with action-packed descriptions of Fluttershy cleaning Twilight's library, the ending falls flatter than Applebloom's crotchteats. It also doesn't make a whole lot of sense for reasons I've already gone into.
Final verdict: this story is basically a throwaway piece of fiction, maybe good as a writing exercise or a way for the author to get some philosophical ideas out on paper, but not the sort of thing you generally want to publish. The arguments are weak and faulty, the story fails to engage the reader, and the ending resolves nothing and makes Fluttershy come across as a changeling at best and a complete cunt at worst. Sticking with my earlier grade of C+.
Next week: Anal.
File (): F41674E13927466EB2FBE6F2B4A10833-273580.png (267.2 KB, 537x600, d9nn6ra-92075b7b-2f46-4024-9c82-be57053c08c8.png)
>>209424
Great to see a new reviewer here. I found your review enjoyable and I hope we get to see more from you.
Great to see a new reviewer here. I found your review enjoyable and I hope we get to see more from you.
>>209424
>The problem with the story's tension is that there is no tension. Nothing builds, there is no climax, nothing resolves, and nopony really grows.
This is why I hate short Fimfic Featurebait stories so much. They're short, vapid, poorly executed ideas that get by on seeming comparatively unique and novel. They make the Support Conversations in Fire Emblem Awakening look like the absolute peak of literary genius.
>The problem with the story's tension is that there is no tension. Nothing builds, there is no climax, nothing resolves, and nopony really grows.
This is why I hate short Fimfic Featurebait stories so much. They're short, vapid, poorly executed ideas that get by on seeming comparatively unique and novel. They make the Support Conversations in Fire Emblem Awakening look like the absolute peak of literary genius.
I've not yet decided which story I'll be reviewing next, so I decided to do a few more posts dealing with Nigel's work in the other thread:
>>211855 →
>>211855 →
>>211864
Nice, man.
I have wanted to say this for a while. I really am grateful about the review posts you made on the competition thread. You really brought your A-game; it was so funny.
Nice, man.
I have wanted to say this for a while. I really am grateful about the review posts you made on the competition thread. You really brought your A-game; it was so funny.
>>211874
Nice.
One day I may finish one of my projects as well when I stopp being so lazy. It is unlikely but it might happened you know. Maybe then I will ask for a review from you guys then.
Nice.
One day I may finish one of my projects as well when I stopp being so lazy. It is unlikely but it might happened you know. Maybe then I will ask for a review from you guys then.
61 replies | 33 files | 24 UUIDs | Archived