/mlpol/ - My Little Politics

>11:39am - Performance of police in riot gear
https://twitter.com/DavidBordes/status/914405443656716288/video/1
>11:42am - confirmed current body count: 38 wounded.
>11:43am - the prosecution considers action against the Mossos for passivity.
>12:05am - the football team of the Canary Island will use a special shirt with the spanish flag against their fight with the Barcelona team this evening.
>12:14am - Generalitad improvises a web page to carry the vote that you need to introduce your data as the police had taken down all the platforms they had prepared for the occassion. Is unlikely they will be checked with the census, as there is no official census.

Feel free to vote in the Catalonian independence referendum.
www.1deoctubreblog.wordpress.com

>12:25am All the counselors and sovereign entities are gathering at the Palau de la Generalitat, with the Mossos at the door.


More updates to come!

>>78855
What an shitstorm. Who do you root for, OP?

>12:33am - Hundreds of people gather in Plaza Mayor to manifest their opposition to the referendum taking place today, with the chant of "You can't fool us, Catalonia is Spain" "Long live the Civil Guard", or the all time favourite "SPAIN, UNITED, WILL NEVER BE DEFEATED".
>12:42am - Many leaders of the independist movement are making a petition to stop the football team Barça from playing today as protest.
>J.K. Rowling adds her very valuable and respected opinion to the joy of many
https://twitter.com/jk_rowling/status/914428064611930112
>13:05am One of the wounded in the police raids is being operated with urgency in the hospital of Sant Pau of Barcelona due to the shot of a rubber bullet in the eye
>13:08am the president of Madrid denounces them for changing the electoral rules 45 mins earlier from starting the vote.
https://twitter.com/ccifuentes/status/914420902321848320/video/1
>13:14 - The ministry of interior confirms that 9 police and 2 civil guards have been wounded


>>78859
I am not rooting for nobody, this whole thing is stupid to begin with.

Even if the catalonians were to win by a "Yes" vote, they wouldn't secede.

And for those people that think anything that is happening today in Spain has any value whatsoever, consider the following:

1: This referendum is illegal and has no guarantees whatsoever
2: It has no electoral board, thus, there is no control, it might as well be propaganda.
3: Is illegal and is being persecuted by the authorities.
4: The centers they are using for voting have no guarantee of staying up.
5: There is no guarantee in the recount, nor the custody no nothing, not even to get ballots for everyone. Heck, the urns are transparent, they might even contain previous votes inside.
6: The party organizing the referendum is far from impartial, and since this whole thing is illegal, having some "help" in certain voting decisions is not illegal.
7: There is no legal census, it can vote literally everyone that happens to be there.
8: There has been no allegations for the people that are to be in the tables, no electoral board to present them, no consequences for not going, nor consequences for participating in this illegal act.
9: They changed the electoral rules 45 mins before the referendum started, and you can even vote from a web page improvised in the last minute.

This is not a referendum, this is a circus, so just grab your popcorn and enjoy the show.

This is one of the votes taking place in Catalonia right now, not all of them have desk with people watching it.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n_rlSQZwtMY

Also the page does not let me either upload or embed for some reason.

>>78863
>Even if the catalonians were to win by a "Yes" vote, they wouldn't secede.
Can you elaborate on this? Why is this so? Also, what is the purpose of the referendum if they don't believe they have any chance of actually seceding?

>illegal to vote to seced.
Literally what can someone mean by this?
All of this seems like trouble caused by the Spanish gov not letting the independent people vote. They must be scared if they act In such a way.

>13:34 - The vice president of the Generalitat asks for Rajoy's resignation .
>13:55 - Rafael Mayoral of the political party "Podemos" does the same, or request for a motion of no confidence.
>13:58 - The principal of the Public Administration school of Catalonia asks for the "Dead of the Bourbon"
>14:02 - Stone rain over the Civil Guard
https://twitter.com/interiorgob/status/914457752528916480/video/1
>14:11 - The Catalonian government declares that the Mossos did not ask for help to act in the 1 of October while referring to the actions of the civil guard and the police.
>14:25 - The number of wounded is estimated to be 337 by the government after the police raids
>14:27 - First legal complaint by a citizen to the Mossos for their inactivity today before a school that opened against the order of the Catalonian Supreme Justice Tribunal.
>14:34 - Professor Raül Romeva announces he will contact the EU due to the violation of the Human Rights in Spain, risking EU values
https://twitter.com/raulromeva/status/914431588825526273/photo/1
>14:37 - A young man goes to vote with a Spanish flag on his waist while being clapped
https://twitter.com/xavicantons/status/914433580897570816/video/1
>14:42 - THE FOOTBALL MATCH BETWEEN THE FOOTBALL TEAMS OF BARCELONA AND LAS PALMAS HAS BEEN SUSPENDED



>>78877
They will not secede because 1, the vote is illegal by the reasons I laid down above; 2, the catalonians do not want to secede, they just want more gibs from the government, they've been trying this strategy for years.
They say they want to secede, how much the government is oppressing them despite one of the richest provinces in the country, and having receive a lot of extra cash to build some of the majestic catalonian ports and many of the infrastructure, which fomented the economy greatly a long time ago.
They pay more because they are more rich, and have more people, like every other country in the world, yet the complain they don't want to subsidize the "poorer" parts of Spain that subsidized the development of Catalonia a long time ago.

Also Catalonia has a huge deficit among Spanish provinces, and they need their cash flow to be able to even pay their workers, maybe they should stop spending so much money in secessionist propaganda and school indoctrination.
Catalonia's debt is at Albania's levels, if they get out of the EU, and they will since they do not form part of it, their economy would collapse. They will have to improvise a garbage currency that nobody would want to buy, and its debt rating is complete garbage, just like Spain, so no chance of selling that debt. Right now, Spain is the biggest customer for Catalonian debt, that will definitely stop buying it when they show them the middle finger. Many spaniards are very likely to boycott Catalonian products…
It will be a huge mess, and is not something a poorly improvised referendum, with barely any controls of who vote and that they had to redo the platform to vote in the last minute with no official census.
They probably want either their own tax agency or a fiscal agreement like the Basque Economic Agreement form 1878, which are retarded in their own right and is costing the country millions.

>>78880
It is illegal by the Spanish constitution, article 2.
It is illegal by Spanish law. It is even illegal by the Catalonian law that was approved a few years ago by the same government that is now in charge. They even went to the supreme justice to ask for it, and the Judge told them exactly what I have said, and that they need to reform the constitution first in order to have this referendum.
It has none of the requirements that are needed to have an electoral process, and it won't be surprising if half the catalonians that did not vote actually revolt if the go along with a decision like this.

>>78888
Checked

Good

>>78918

I wonder who is behind this post. /)

>>78854
>>78855
>>78863
>>78872
>>78888
>>78907

We are watching your happening with great interest Spain Anon. Thanks for the Upkeep! This will be a case study for current year uprisings in the west.

>>78888
check

With how things are going right now, it seems that Catalonia will get to secede anyway.

The turn out was huge and voters were willing to take a beating to vote, which implies those voters had to be vastly pro secession. Reputation of EU will face another significant blow. This won't end without consequences.

Best case scenario for Spain is compromise with Catalonia, giving them more sovereignty.

>16:10 - Mossos defend their performance in today's event.
>16:19 - The counselor of Exterior of Catalonia has announced this Sunday that he will ask the EU, both the parliament and the commission to act against the Spanish state for the police charges that took place today.
>16:27 - Jeremy Corbin, leader of the UK's labor party criticize the violence of Spain
>16:35 - Videos about the raids that took place in the voting centers.
https://vod.elconfidencial.com/cea/34c/cea34c19a1066d458f74deffab80ef93_26.mp4
>16:56 - The president of the Catalonian political party Esquerra Republicana (Republican left) has been wounded in a clash with the riot police in one of the voting centers.
>17:09 - 460+ wounded confirmed
>17:27 - The Mossos and the National Police have clashed a couple of times today, resulting in minor acts of violence
https://vod.elconfidencial.com/bbb/582/bbb58205d85d70bf8c5cae94b077e39f_26.mp4
>17:39 - A ring wing extremist has assaulted a young man carrying an independist flag, needing the help of the Mossos (I'm sure this one is exactly as they say)
>17:43 - 12 police are confirmed wounded
>17:55 - Preparations for the celebration of "Yes" are already in place in Barcelona
https://www.ecestaticos.com/image/clipping/654/06fa8e666295686c12ecded6fab8ca3d/imagen-sin-titulo.jpg
>17:58 - Irregularities of citizens voting twice and people that are not catalonians voting as well are being reported
>18:03 - Denunciations of the inactions of the Mossos against the opening of schools for the referendum have grown during the day, according to the supreme Justice Tribunal of Catalonia, at least 6 have presented writing complains about their performace.


>>78931
>With how things are going right now, it seems that Catalonia will get to secede anyway.

I don't think so to be honest, most of the political class pushing for the referendum does not actually want independence.

And about the turnout, remember that many of the centers of the province has been shutdown during the day. What you might be seeing in those photos could be the only voting center in kilometers, and everyone goes there.
And since there's no official census and no official figures, we might never know what the official figures are. People might even be voting twice, or we could even have foreigners voting.
And I would assume the media in Catalonia has been portraying this referendum as a legitimate form of electoral process, so it would not surprise me actually seeing large amount of people in favor of not seceding. Tho, I would not rely on it.

And I think they did not actually expect the beating, probably because no president would be retarded enough to send the police to beat people up just for a vote. And this is what it looks like outside of the country.

What I really fear might be the idea behind all of this process is to have Catalonia become independent of Spain, yet still remain a member or rejoin the EU somehow.

This would set a precedent for breaking the countries in smaller regions that cannot survive on their own economically, and would face a continental boycott by the EU were they to show some dissent, thus making impossible for a single of those smaller countries to actually afford the superhuman effort that will be require to leave it.

I hope I'm wrong on that one.

>>78975
>What I really fear might be the idea behind all of this process is to have Catalonia become independent of Spain, yet still remain a member or rejoin the EU somehow.
>This would set a precedent for breaking the countries in smaller regions that cannot survive on their own economically, and would face a continental boycott by the EU were they to show some dissent, thus making impossible for a single of those smaller countries to actually afford the superhuman effort that will be require to leave it.
Oh fuck! I hope you're wrong…

>>78975
Catalan GDP per person is high compared to the rest of Spain. They will do fine separated. Spain needs them more than they need Spain.

>>78854
do you live in Catalonia yourself spanon?

Meanwhile in Castilla

>Referendum = Golpe de estado
>Referendum = Golpe de estado
>Referendum = Golpe de estado
>Referendum = Golpe de estado
>Referendum = Golpe de estado
>Referendum = Golpe de estado
>Referendum = Golpe de estado
>Referendum = Golpe de estado
>Referendum = Golpe de estado
>Referendum = Golpe de estado
>Referendum = Golpe de estado
>Referendum = Golpe de estado
>Referendum = Golpe de estado
>Referendum = Golpe de estado
>Referendum = Golpe de estado

>>79022
From the perspective of the Castilians is that desirable or undesirable?

>18:24 - The chain a urn to a block of concrete
https://twitter.com/ManelMedina/status/914460119454375937/photo/1
>18:27 - At least 6 arrested by the National Police and the Civil guard
>18:30 - Jeremy Corbyn urges Theresa May to talk with Rajoy about Catalonia
>18:36 - People responsible for the referendum communicated with the delegates of the electoral college to voice the negativity of a possible clean and legitimacy of the results, and urges people to burn the ballots that are introduced on the urns so they cannot be computed
>18:43 - All those who couldn't vote please move to the nearby schools, says Turull, adviser of the government of catalonia.
>18:44 - Turull: "This is an international scandal and the embarrassment of Europe.
>19:00 - Mossos confiscated a non-official urn
https://vod.elconfidencial.com/368/b17/368b17fae92b8c909deb07601c26026d_26.mp4
>19:08 - The leader of of the socio-democrat group in the European Parliament, Gianni Pittella, says the referendum is illegal an non valid, but said that "is is a sad day for Spain and Europe" and called for a political solution.
>19:15 - The presence of the extreme right in the protest that took place in Puerta de Sol in Madrid in favor of the referendum has been under tensions, and is under watch for the Units of Political Intervention (UIP)
>19:24 - The are movilizing the Committees of Defense of the Referendum (CDR) in Tarragona, some short of citizen militia that call for "take the streets" across the social networks, at the same time they detail the positions of police in the city.
>19:26 - The counselor of the presidency has admitted today that "it was no possible to vote normally since we had to close 319 schools of a total of 2315 for a police reaction that, to his judgement, positions Spain as the "embarrassment of Europe"
>19:30 - Football player Gerard Piqué "break up in tears" after the victory of the Barça against UD Las Palmas. He criticized the acts of the government and has said he is willing to leave his career in the Spanish League
>19:48 - Mariano Rajoy will speak today at 20:15 in the Palace of the Moncloa.
>19:52 - The mossos take the urns away from different schools, some people have removed them earlier in order to protect them from the Mossos.
>19:52 - Change.org petition with more than 50k signatures after 7 hours to cease the organization of the Mossos di Squadra after the events of today.
https://www.change.org/p/ministerio-del-interior-disoluci%C3%B3n-de-los-mossos

>>78977
I hope so too…

>>78980
Didn't you hear anything I say?
The economical status of Catalonia right now is not the same as Catalonia after secession.
First of all, the external debt of Catalonia is 16.114 million euros, around 6% of their GDP, and this would change if they get out of the EU, brexit had a 2,6% decrease in their GDP, and Catalonia would have to change currency for that to happen, so expect an even bigger one.
Their commerce with Spain alone is 29% of the GDP, and that would be gone after a secession, especially if it is a hard one, which seems like the only feasible possibility at this point.
And unlike the UK, many countries would refuse to recognize Catalonia as a country as fears for independence in their own regions.
Whatever their current GDP might be now there's no way is going to be the same after losing a third of its economical activities.
Plus, many of its actual economical activities come from using the raw materials from the rest of Spain. There's no way their economy won't take a severe hit.

And no, Spain does not need Catalonia more than the other way, in fact, they have taken more since 1978 than they have given in, in fact, Catalonia is the spanish region with the biggest debt in the entire country.

>>78993
I do not, I live more west and south. Else I would be seeing and hearing a real shitstorm right now.

>>79022
A coup is the acquisition of political power against the institutional legitimacy, and in this case the Catalonians are trying to take the power of the region by an illegal referendum, so that's why people call it a coup d'etat.

>>79042
>First of all, the external debt of Catalonia is 16.114 million euros, around 6% of their GDP,

That's is wonderful! And shows what an economic powerhouse it is. Comapare 6% to these https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_public_debt

The rest of your comment to mine is speculation. Not much I can do with that. But the debt situation makes me more hopeful for them.

>Mariano Rajoy's speech
>My main obligation as president is to guarantee the democracy, but also to procure concord.
>There was no referendum. We confirmed this in the parliament when they tried to cancel the Constitution and the Estatut
>The responsible of these acts are the ones that took us here and are exclusive the ones that promoted the rupture to their own convenience. Don't look for the guilty somewhere else (is not my fault, I promise!)
>The Spanish law abiding citizen has ignored this referendum and stayed at home, for this, I thank them deeply.
>All spaniards build a democracy together and plenty.
>Most catalonians didn't want to participate
>This has been an attack. The referendum that wanted to secede a part of the country without the rest of the spaniards did not exist.
>Thanks to democracy we have stopped the attack against the constitution.
>I won't close a door, I offer dialogue inside the law (funny you didn't offer it when illegally taking millions of refugees)
>good job to the legal enforcers
>We have the law backing us, and we will defend against the illegal referendum
>The division process has failed, democracy has won.
>We tried to stop them, they didn't listen.
>We can be united across the centuries, and we will remain as such.

>>79045
That is the external debt, not the public debt, those are two different things, their public debt is 35,20% of their GDP.

And how is saying that Spain will refuse to make business with them (specially if they secede refusing to pay the debt that they own to Spain) speculation?

Export of Catalonia were 65k million in 2016, and imports were 78k millions.
Not only that, Catalonia contributes a 6.2% of all the Spanish public debt.

And even if we were to think all of this doesn't matter, they will definitely include import and export tariffs, like every other country in the world, making many of the business lose of the bigger market that is Spain, and some even decided that is not worth the expenditures to maintain their Catalonian headquarters.

Well, after the dust has settled, and much of the circus has died down, I can give a quick rundown of what took place the other day in Spain.

Let's start from the side of the Catalonians.
A month ago the Catalonian government announced they were going to have a referendum, ignoring any legal authority that said they couldn't hold it, and that they would get no public money to organize it, nor any backing from any legal institution.
After the month had gone by, they had barely managed to get all the urns and ballots required for the whole process, they had barely started with the required procedures to organize such a process.
And to make things better, 45 minutes before voting was open to the public, they decided to throw the census out the window plus any control they had set up for the voting and told them to just go to a center nearby and vote.

The final result was surprisingly even worse than I had anticipated.
Children voting, same people voting multiple times on different centers, urns already filled with votes before the referendum started, people literally putting votes in urns laying on the ground in the middle of the road with nobody even there to check, and cities with twice the amount of final votes than the local population of the place.
And this is of course, not even counting with the government that was counting the ballots is likely to tamper with the results like they did with the other independence referendum they had 3 years ago.
Another detail is that the mayor secessionist parties in Catalonia are 3, and they together get 1.7~ million votes. Now, some of these are not from separatist, but they come from the political quandary of voting for a bad party and a worse one.
Even if we were to assume that all those were pro secession, and all those were to vote, we have to take into account the police seizing multiple urns and ballots during the entire day in multiple points across the entire region.
Despite that, they managed to get even MORE than they normally get in an official election.

TL;DR: This referendum has been a total sham and a fraud, and nobody should consider the results of this thing legitimate or even representative for that matter in any way shape or form.

Now from the government side. The problem of the Catalonian government pushing for secession has been going for 36 years, and using public money to push for propaganda to break the constitution is not legal.
Despite this, each and every singe government we've had until this point has outright refused to even address this problem other than calling for the supreme justice court each time they try to secede, meanwhile covering all the expenditures from the corruption and illegality taking place there.
To solve this problem would have been as easy as to use their power to arrest their government to break the law and the constitution, ANY TIME in these 36 years.
But no, of course not.
So in this case, what did they do to solve the problem this time?
Arrest the government? No
Call for article 155 of the constitution and suspend their corrupt autonomic system? No
Even denounce the illegal practices of the government for the last 3 and a half decades to save some face? No

Instead, he sent the police to seize the votes and beat people up. I would say I am dissapointed, but I never expected much from him, even now that his presidency is at stake.
He is an extremely corrupt EU loving president that will pretend to love Christians as long as the old people from the Franco regime is alive, and will switch back in a second as soon as the new progressive bunch becomes the dominant majority.
And what did he do afterwards you might ask? Well, he demonized the Catalonian people that are sick of his shit and want out.
Now, many Catalonians are not really pro independence, but they know that both the central government and the Catalonian government is corrupt, and think that with this they can at least get rid of one of the parasites.

There's much more than this tho, much of the regional electoral laws favor nationalist movements, and these, in Catalonia in particular, have been taking advantage of all the concessions the central government gave them in 1981 to make almost illegal teach in schools and talk in Spanish in any TV station. Demonization of the rest of Spain is common, and they tell how oppressed they are in a similar way blacks are taught that they are oppressed and doing back because of historic reasons.
Also, the government of Catalonia does not really want independence, they've been crying secession all this time so that the central government gives them more gibs and special status. But is too late for them to back down now. They are just pushing more because they are sure they won't get their independence.
The real problem comes from the inaction of the main government that when asked about this says "But we need a lot of votes to change the constitution, and there's no way to get everyone on board". But sure enough, it was pretty easy to get everyone on board when we needed to reform the constitution to rescue the banks back in 2008 with taxpayer money. Not even a raised eyebrow on that end.

People asked me before who do I support, but I only see here traitors trying to break the country apart… again. We lost half an empire for smaller conflicts that the ones that took place on Catalonia the other day.

Only good thing to come out of this is actual Spanish nationalism on the rise. People are losing hope on the right wing, and the other parties are pretty much politically dead at this point. We might be able to retake our country thanks to the Catalonians and their corrupt government rigging referendums.

cont

And if Catalonia gets its independence, and we retake our government, you can be sure that when Catalonia is overrun by Muslims, because if it becomes independent it will become if not the country with the largest Muslim population, one of the top 3, we will be there to help them take on reconquista 2.0, Catalan edition.
And Spain will be whole once again.

>>79829
>unc chapel hill
Wake me up

>>79829
Crusade when?

>>79827
The world is going to fall apart. Economics is going to collapse because of the underlying lack of babies being born to make future and current debts affordable. This whole thing isn't just the "surface level" things you mention, it is just the stresses being uncovered as the money runs out.

These stresses are not going away any time soon. Using illegality as a method of "stopping this" is like screaming at the train about to run you over as you are tied to the tracks. There is no path that solves what is coming. My position is let the energy of their 36 year chimp out be expressed by getting their autonomy, because enforcing their capitulation is only going to increase the violence. Let them fall flat on their face if that is the outcome, it is better than the coming civil war which makes everyone fall on the face.

>>79844

the rulers of the current year and their (((puppet masters))) wont just sit idly by and let their power constructs being stripped away from them. There will be blood and possibly mushroom clouds.

>>79834

Maybe sooner than we all think.

For the first time in my live I have seen people in the streets with flags cheering for Spain, and the media couldn't just target them and call them fascist or "franquista" because they were singled out, but there were actually thousands of them on the streets
This while the government called out specifically NOT to go out to the streets with Spanish flags to protest.
For the first time I feel hopeful for the future.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1qObFb4P6Jw
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vh0H8oO23VY
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IISfcCoBlyA

>>79844

You seem to have completely missed my point or skipped my post entirely, as the post you are quoting was not discarding the referendum under any short of legal terms, but under the basis of multiple irregularities across the country during the whole process resulting in massive electoral fraud, and the conclusion that the result of this referendum was heavily tampered with and does not represent the opinion of the people of Catalonia in the slightest.

Also, you seem to be confusing the origin of Spain's current political and social crisis with debt and money due to demographic shift. In Spain we had a dictator for 35 years that walled off this process that is enveloping the west from ever reaching the shores of the Iberian Peninsula. Even though those problems you are very concerned about are very real, and will have to be dealt with in due time, this process is way less advanced in Spain, as it was started 35 years later than the rest of the world.
This conflict has its origins exclusively in the political class of both sides, that have been fueling the flames of the independent sentiment trough all means necessary for 36 long years.

I also added that the majority of the Catalonians do not want independence because of any patriotism for their culture or any economical stress, they just want to get away of one of the parasites that is Spain's political class.

You are telling me to just sit idly and accept a manufactured referendum by a corrupt political party whose intention is to rob my country of its land and an integral part of what makes it what it is, plus deal with the Muslim country that will result from that process in a decade or so, I'll just let you know I'm not planning on giving up on my country and my people just yet.

Maybe if the referendum was properly done by a serious institution and massive electoral fraud was not rampant, I would accept it.

But for now, is Inquisition time against the political class, and then reconquista.

>>79852

>multiple irregularities

The irregularities in the vote, which I don't dispute, are a product of Spain oppressing the chance for a democratic process to determine the future. This decades long struggle has led to entrenchment and fraud on both sides, we both agree. This oppression makes extremist who stop acting morally. Remove the oppression and monitor the vote from both sides and with independent observers.


Spain Fertility was middle of the road in the 60s. It held up okay until the mid 70s then fell to a level so low only 4 other nations are actually lower in the region, and one of them is Portugal. See pic.

https://www.google.com.au/publicdata/explore?ds=d5bncppjof8f9_&met_y=sp_dyn_tfrt_in&idim=country:ESP:ITA:FRA&hl=en&dl=en#!ctype=l&strail=false&bcs=d&nselm=h&met_y=sp_dyn_tfrt_in&scale_y=lin&ind_y=false&rdim=region&idim=country:ITA:FRA:GBR:UKR:CHE:SWE:SVN:SVK:SRB:SMR:RUS:ROU:PRT:POL:NOR:NLD:MNE:MCO:MDA:MKD:LUX:LTU:LIE:LVA:IMN:IRL:ISL:HUN:GRL:GRC:GIB:DEU:GEO:FIN:FRO:EST:DNK:CZE:CYP:HRV:CHI:BGR:BIH:BEL:BLR:AUT:ARM:AND:ESP:KAZ&ifdim=region&hl=en_US&dl=en&ind=false

The loss of those would-be children in, lets say, 1975 onwards, mens less people entering the workforce in about 1995, this means economic expansion slow and tax collection slows, debts becomes harder to pay. At about 35 these missing people would have bought houses and made maximum benefitial impact on the economy, 1975 + 35 = 2010. We are 7 years into the maximised impact of the 1975ish baby bust.

If the Catalonia problem goes back 36 years, 2017 - 36 = 1981 which is 6 years after the baby decline. I do not know if that is relevant, but the economic stresses today should have shown up staring in 1995 and maximising in 2010 and continuing at that maximum.

>>79888
>The irregularities in the vote are a product of Spain oppressing the chance for a democratic process to determine the future.

Seems you have a misconception. The Spanish government was not an "evil authoritarian oppressing the poor people of Catalonia against their human rights".
What happened in fact was that the Catalonian government asked to the Supreme Justice Tribunal of Catalonia to hold a legally binding referendum, and the Catalonian courts told him NO, because it was against the constitution.

Since this was being publicized by the Catalonian government in all of the televion and social media outlets, the central government had to intervene to held the decision made by the Catalonian courts themselves. He took the route that was most likely to break Spain of course, I would expect nothing else from him.

Also, it has not been an struggle and the Catalonians are not oppressed people at all, they are one of the most well off provinces in the entire country, and they have the ability to basically replace the national language with their own local language, break the law and waste millions with the main government subsidizing their economy.

The only oppression you could ever claim was not giving them even more of an special status like the basques, and the beat up the other day.
For most of their existence, they have been the indulged children of Spain to eyes of many. And for the high and political class of the Catalonian society, it is true. The lower class is totally screwed in Spain no matter where you. There's no middle class in Spain.

And regarding the economic unrest, what caused the sentiment of Catalonia's secession were by social and political issues, the economic issues are just fuel to the fire, but is far from the root nor the aggravating cause.


And two things regarding our economy.
First of all, where all our money goes into is our state model, we literally have 18 big governments for such a small country that is Spain. For all purposes each country has its own healthcare, its own education system, its own congress, its own justice department. Spain already is one of the most decentralized countries in the entire world, and its costing us around 10% of our GDP. And the reason we don't have pension money, is because our government was running out of money to run this whole monstrosity a couple of years ago, saw the very fat and delicious purse containing the pensions accumulated with the sweat and hard work from the people since the era of Franco, and just decide to use that to subsidize this parasitic zombie state. Then decided to use more of it when the banks crashed in 2008.

Second, what also really fucked up our economy was the Euro.
It completely ruined our ability to export and took away all the little invested we got when we joined the European union, and made all our companies either sold out and go to Brussels or another tax haven country, or just went outright bankrupt.

In fact, it has nothing to do with children since the average wage a worker gets is already so low is lower than the average pension, so not even taxing 100% of what's left of the middle class, if there's actually anything left, won't even solve the issue.

Young people cannot work because we have 40~50% youth unemployment, forget about even buying a house without taking a massive loan thanks to the housing crisis literally destroying the housing market. Having more babies won't solve the issue, and would just give families more mouth to feed in an economy that is always worsening, and that the politicians might just give it a push whenever they feel like it.

How fucked up is Spain right now has absolutely nothing to do with lower birth rates, or oppression to any particular part of Spain. It has been the political class of EVERY SINGLE mayor province shifting Spain towards the worst direction possible in each turn. I would consider that a miracle if they were that incompetent when taking out actual nationalist movements. So malice it is.

>>80092

>What happened in fact was that the Catalonian government asked to the Supreme Justice Tribunal of Catalonia to hold a legally binding referendum, and the Catalonian courts told him NO, because it was against the constitution.

Okay, that does shift the problem on to the Catalans to a tiny degree, but the Constitution is Spanish as a whole, obviously and the Catalan courts just read the Spanish Constitution. The Catalans to some degree want to leave Spain and its Constitution. Which if they do makes the limits of the Constitution invalid. I expect other secessions in the world were all illegal also. There is still the need for the people have have their voices heard so the matter can be dissipated (for now). This argument also falls back to "not legal" which is a technicality that doesn't solve the matter, or stop the protests or stop the path to war.

>Having more babies won't solve the issue, and would just give families more mouth to feed in an economy that is always worsening

This is true, the baby thing takes 20-35 years to provide the economic stimulus. So the babies should have been had in the past decades. Since they weren't it is not a solution for today, but it is a solution for 2037 onwards. It won't happen of course because history shows baby making happens in depressions, once contraception exists. Therefore Depression is in the future.

The problems are both pragmatic and emotional. The pragmatic side is a failing economy, and the emotional side is the cultural differences. When people are in economic stress they are edgy, small problems become amplified. They feed each other on the way down. That's why I suggest let there be a pressure release by letting a vote happen.

The world is going through a disintegration process, like couples fighting over lack of money, we need to find the least deadly method of fighting and separating.

This is my perspective on how economics feeds into social conflict:
https://mlpol.net/mlpol/archive/res/48239.html

Okay, we have some updates.

The king gave an speech about the whole situation, surprising since I had expected him to just sit down at the back and go on vacation while telling the politicians to do something about the problem.

He basically sided with the government and said that multiple illegalities have been committed by the government through the few years and abusing the laws that their institutions are cemented on.
…which is funny since he could've said all of that many years ago when he was crowned, and not now that the situation has gotten considerably worse.

And seems like there has been talks about applying article 155 of the constitution.
For those of you who don't know, the article 155 allows the execute branch of the main government to terminate the functions of any public institution on one of the autonomous communities, and either replace them or take over them.

It is only to be activated under extreme circumstances of illegality, and you need 2/3 of the votes in parliament to activate it. And no, the main government does not have the votes, because all lefties parties are against it, and the right wing alone does not hold the votes for calling it into action, so he might summon elections to get more seats.
Although with the backing of the king, things might change regarding that fact without the need for an extra electoral process.

The Catalan government, the president to be precise, must be shivering with fear right now.
He claimed the official results of the referendum will finally be released this week, and he will do an unilateral declaration of independence 48 hours later if the government refuses to talk about it.
He's probably pushing as far as he can to have our lazy and do-nothing president actually get up and push article 155 on their asses, so he can claim he's being oppressed by the Spain and legitimate his entire position and ordeal by making themselves the victim.

Which I really hope that our president acts as useless as he always acts, and lets him declare his independence, sinking him in the grave he has made for himself, since he has no plan, no currency prepared, no deals and backing from other countries, will not be recognized as a country by all the other countries that have independent movements, which is basically all the important ones.

His secession movement is done, his only hope now is to claim victim statues by if due to some miracle, our president actually does something regarding their illegal practices as the king has said.

Also, the electoral college declared the referendum a fraud.

>>80186

You seem to be stubborn in your idea of oppressed Catalans and oppressor Spaniards.
You also seem completely convinced that Catalonia in its majority wants to separate from Spain.

Let me add some more data.
Catalonia is one of the most divided places in the entire Spain.
The political parties are giving away the country to the Islamist and Arabs as it is their orders.
Meanwhile, the government is heavily pushing the Catalan language, and aggrandizing their regional traditions while demonizing the ones that are celebrated as well on the rest of the peninsula.
All of this while a heavily persecution against those who show Spanish tendencies, to the point that many business won't hire you if you dare to speak Spanish at work.
Also, videos surface from time to time of people being beaten on the street if they ever dare to wear an Spanish flag. I remember seeing not too long ago a video where 4 teenage boys ganged up on a female teenager when she dared to wear an Spanish flag in support of the Madrid football team.

So when you say give the referendum so that the Catalans have a voice, you mean a referendum so that the separatist want a voice. And you are also assuming they will stop pushing for it once they have it once, and lose, they will stop bitching for it. But no, they will organize the referendum every 3~4 years hoping that with the importing of Muslims and indoctrination from schools, they will get their result. If they don't, just try it again in the future when the politicians have shaped the country more to their liking.
I'm not against then having a referendum, but this problem runs much deeper and it will not be solved with a referendum of independence.

You might be right with your theory that lack of fertility causes problems in the long run. But I can assure you the causes for Spain's crisis do not originate from a lack of babies, the stress comes from the political class not doing its job, or doing a terrible job.

And Spain and Catalonia are not a couple, they are a single entity. They were born together, they genetically indistinguishable. And Spain does not win anything by separating itself from one its largest economic blocks that will make it very difficult for them to get out later when nationalism actually rises in Spain.
Specially if Catalonia becomes a pro-immigration totalitarian communist government, which seems to be the direction they swing, which will eventually lead to Catalonia becoming Al-Andalus again.

So I'll stick with taking my WHOLE country back, and not divide it in weak pieces just so decentralization happens thank you very much.

>>80367
One way or another this is going to turn to shit. Arguing about which shit is better is probably pointless.

>>80372

sorry vril i'm going to have to side with spanon here. He seems better informed but more importantly he's posted more ponies in this thread, your posts lack both credibility and ponies

>>80375

>lack .. ponies
I invoke Epona.

My argument is, release the pressure or have an explosion. It does not matter if the explosion is legally correct, it is still an explosion.

>>80372
I've been giving updates to this whole thing, and you seemed to have a misconceptions on my descriptions of Spain's current situation, so I try my best to clarify your doubts as an actual Spanish citizen with a first seat view of this whole circus.

And I argued this is a conflict between an authoritarian government and another authoritarian government, both doing their best to break Spain apart.

But yes, I do agree with you that this circus is just just beginning.

>>80378
I wont be changing my view that the people of Catalonia should decide their fate through a properly verified vote. So lets agree to disagree.

>>80377
What did Epona mean by this?

>>80379
Very well, just know that you are supporting commies and Soros.

>>80375
Twilight is a best! ^:)

>>80381
No. I am just wanting to address the immediate concern. The longer concerns are secondary for now. I don't want anyone anywhere starting a war. I am not being belligerent, I am being worried.

We are both just solving a different problem. I am sure we both have good intentions, just different targets.

>>80384
We are addressing the same problem, the different being is that I'm trying to address the root cause that created the problem in the first place, and keeps making in bigger day after day, whereas you want to patch the immediate problem by ceding and giving the Catalan government their referendum, which I'm not really against, since I believe the population of Catalonia is not against Spain. But they will just repeat the referendum again in a few years and we'll be back to square one.

The root cause must be addressed, and ASAP, if we don't want to end up giving part of our territory and many of the best of our brethren to a far left Muslim infested dictatorship, and eventually a caliphate. Again.

>>80387
>>80387
>I'm trying to address the root cause
What is that very concisely? What is the root? (so we don't make too many tangents in the discussion)

>Catalan government their referendum, which I'm not really against, since I believe the population of Catalonia is not against Spain.

We should find out by allowing the vote. This unknowing is part of the problem, it allows too much speculation on each side. If the Spanish storm troopers had not shown up, the vote for succession might have turned out as a loss. Now many Catalans got flipped to pro-secession hardliners. Squeezing the soap makes you drop it.

There is possibly one thing that tipped this into the violent oppression was: http://archive.fo/b2wck
This is from The National newspaper, which is Scottish, so probably pro-independence, thinks the pro-secession vote would have been 83%. If the Spanish gov thought this might be true then the actions become logical (if not forgivable).

How should this be de-escalated? Should it be de-escalated?

Congratulations to Catalonia!

>>80396
>What is that very concisely? What is the root?
The root cause, or roots for that matter, is government corruption, from both sides, and one of them actively performing task of social and demographic engineering. And the other is our broken state model that not only waste a substantial amount of money, but also allows for things like these kind of corruption to happen.

>If the Spanish storm troopers had not shown up, the vote for succession might have turned out as a loss. Now many Catalans got flipped to pro-secession hardliners. Squeezing the soap makes you drop it.

The vote was rigged, there were ballots inside the urns even the troopers showed up. And in case you didn't know, there was another referendum for independence, declared illegal as well, and was also rampant in their illegal practices and electoral fraud, which dealt quite the blow to the independence movement. And similar to this one, it got a small part of the population to actually vote for it, just 25%.
This one was a little better, but not much, 30,37% turnout.

The increase was probably due to some of the shady actions from the government earlier that month, and I believe the turnout if the referendum was to be hold again will be much greater, mostly due to the decisions of the main government the other day.

And this is what I've been trying to say, both governments are doing whatever they can to alienate the people and break this country apart. They should have been allowed to hold the referendum, they would have cheated like they always do, and we would've mock them like we've always done when they try dumb stuff like this.

As I said up to my first post, what happened was a circus, a performance for the cameras. The referendum was a sham and our government did whatever it took to alienate the people, and they are still doing it.

If this is to be de-escalated it must be done by the Catalan patriots themselves. There's a couple of protest planned for the next few days, and most of them won't listen if any of the governments says anything about it after the horror they caused and still are causing.

And from the government side, I think the central government should do what it should've done from the very beginning; ignore the crazy separatist, let them play their cards and watch them sweat when the government doesn't actually go for them and they can't play the only card they've always had in their hands, the oppression card.

And yes, unless you want a totalitarian communist state in western Europe that imports Muslims non stop and cries to the EU for humanitarian help while redistributing the "fair share" of each country's refugees, we should strive towards a united Spain. Then works towards de-entangle it with their ties to the EU, and possibly NATO in the long run, and make it an independent nation, like it was during its entire existence. Then Reconquista.

I for one welcome this acceleration.

>>80412
>both governments are doing whatever they can to alienate the people and break this country apart.

The future is coming.

Thanks for the discussion. I have decided to move my energy to something more productive than us repeating ourselves. I hate cycles. Thanks again, and best of luck to Spain.

New Update.

It seems like business, many of them, but more in particular, private banks, are starting to worry greatly about this whole thing. Due to this referendum, lots of people around Spain starting to take their savings out of Catalonia based banks and move it somewhere else, just in case Catalonia decides to go all the way.
So due to this, some banks are starting to move to other sides of the country, and some others are considering considering it. The government is planning on passing a legal reform to make their transition easier and less bureaucratic.
And in response, the Catalan government is asking the citizens to boycott these business and banks. Not the smartest of moves.

In other news, the current president of Catalonia said he would make an unspecified announcement on Monday in from of the Catalan parliament, but the constitutional tribunal has unanimously suspended the assembly of the Catalan parliament.
This law allows the Constitutional tribunal to "under an exceptional emergency that would produce a perjury impossible or very difficult undoing", adopt precautionary measures and resolve the procedure in question.

In other words, the meeting will be declared void and without any effect by the Const. Trib.
Not only that, if any of the parliamentarians were to assist this meeting, they would be disposed of their rights as members of the Spanish parliament and effectively rob the Catalans from any power of influence in the central Parliament due to lack of representatives.
Plus, the CT has been very clear that the duty of the president of the parliament is to stop this meeting from taking place, and so is the rest of the parliament, that could face serious consequences if they do not attempt to stop this meeting.

Seems protests are starting to escalate from both sides of the spectrum.
From both separatist…
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YdnX-iTy9KU

And nationalist
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QVnAC545f0I

The nationalist have come out to the streets just like I predicted, and there's probably more to come since I have seen protest sequestrated for the 8th and the 12th, and there's probably many more I have missed.
The secessionist ones won't stop of course, they want to win this race as much as the other side.

The independentist must be quite annoyed about why he hasn't declare independence already.
The government has shown its not willing to talk to him, and this "I'll talk about the referendum on Monday" seems more like a tactic to win time more than anything else.
Although I do fear he might have made a closed door agreement with our president to put another stunt like the one on Sunday.
In case he's not, he's can say goodbye to his political career and hello to jail.

And to finish apparently the Mossos, Catalonia's police, are starting to worry and "become embarrassed" due to their disobedience to the constitutional tribunal and the Catalan Supreme Justice Tribunal the other day.
Seems they realize that this whole thing is a marketing strategy, and they've been used. Even if the politicians somehow get out unharmed from this whole ordeal, these people are going to be the scapegoat.


Also, for what is worth, the Vatican has sided with the main government. Yay?

Sorry for the wait, got some more updates.

For once, our president has done what I had hoped he'd do, what he always does and what he should've done during the referendum, absolutely nothing.

They have done whatever they can to get international support, but so far, nothing. Nothing important that is, none European, no US, no Canada, nor Russia, nor China… Not even Israel that supported them before the referendum and even printed many of the ballots used for the event. The European Parliament specially, they knew they would be in favor of Spain but they hoped they would be more ambiguous in the matter.

They were counting with the king calling for dialogue between the both governments, but he basically gave them the middle finger. Quite more harsh that they, and even I hoped for initially.

They have surprisingly lost a lot of support from the Spanish media. Even Soros's national TV (aka "La Sexta") despite having a lot of economical support from the man initially, and I'm expecting them to compare the Catalan's decision with totalitarian and fascist, maybe they will even drop the NAZI word. The independentist are showing themselves like the leftist they are and some are even assaulting some of the journalist that come to inform about all this event. So they are starting to look for their info somewhere… Looks like their initial publicity stunt was the only thing they had.

No matter what, the economy of Catalonia has sank for years to come (and is going to affect the entire country). Some of the banks with headquarters in Catalonia have lots a lot of clients that removed their money in fears of losing it due to the UDI (Unilateral Declaration of Independence), they might change their headquarters to save what's left, but not all clients are coming back, and their stock won't rise for a very long time. If they still exist for that long, since the rest of the Spanish banks are looking to eat some of their market and their stock, probably more. Many other business have left, to not come back for a long time. Also apparently, there were calls from the banks and many business that were less of the type "if you don't stop this I'm leaving" and more like "you know that Mr. guy and Mr. Man, your family, are getting 10k € monthly, and if I have to leave, they are the first ones getting the door". Their subtlety might vary from what I expressed here.
One of the banks authorized a protest (because you need permission to manifest in Spain if you don't want to get sued, and this law applies the same to everyone, not only the Catalans), but they weren't expecting people to cut the streets and scream to the face of anybody that got near the bank. People say the banks have taken their picture.

We got the official (manipulated) results of the referendum. Now according to the law of the referendum passed earlier this September (and the reason why this referendum was made illegal) they are to declare the independence in 48h, which means this Monday.

There's a protest in Catalonia by the Catalans that are against this process tomorrow, and some are expecting it to be huge. They are pushing in social media to get people outside of Catalonia to protest so they can claim that "barely any of them are Catalans" when there are a decent amount of non-catalans there.

The government of Catalonia is becoming completely terrified, they are receiving pressure from lots of people to make the UDI, yet is obvious they didn't prepare well enough outside the initial publicity stun. After the support they had expeced did not manifest, they had hoped for our president to give them an honorable way out. Which our president is responding with silence.
Time is against them and their desperation is showing in some of their speeches. They probably lost their hopes to get out of this mess unscathed.

One of the few from the government whose Catalan nationalism comes from love from its country and people, and not victimhood and hate towards Spain, is trying to call for early elections to solve this mess up, because that would be the only political way they can somewhat save Catalonia on their own and some of its economy. The government is still going to jail tho.

Catalonia has probably sank for years to come. And the Spaniards, and specially the Catalans know who's fault it is. But the best of all is, they're not afraid to say it.

Pay close attention to Catalonia in the next few days. These are the events that make history, and we're reaching the grand finale.

>>80994
great updates Spainbro, following this situation very closely.

>Catalans dont really want or care about this
>Referendum is illegal
>state indepencence is illegal
>province still votes
>vote is virulently fraudulent
>police is sent but fails almost everywhere

Spain is horrificly incompetent when it comes to keeping its country together. I wonder who will crack first. the people in the small province or the big state who cant or refuses to use deadly force to assert its rule over its subjects. Current year politics in the west are so pussyfooted its digusting.

Wew, seems like we have some heat going on right now.

There's a protest against the independence in Catalonia of a considerable size. The Urban Guard has put the numbers at 350k, whereas the Catalan Civil society estimates there are 950k.

Regardless, seems like it has reached the hundreds of thousands.

Some politicians from our current governing party, the kosher conservatives "Popular Party" have make appearance in the event as well, and there's a Peruvian writer making a political speech in the plaza for some reason.

The news is (of course) reporting this as far right extremist protest full of fascist, as you can clearly see in the second pic (The news title in English is "Summon of extreme right groups in front of La Caserna), and comparing it to the Falange (Francisco Franco's party, the old dictator of Spain).
And Soros's national TV is putting reruns from the "yes we can" party (commies, immigration lovers, Soros funded) protesting yesterday.

The leader of "yes we can" has been booed by around half a million people today. I never though I'd see the moment where the commie parties are publicly shamed. And it feels good.

And (((some people))) are saying that the virus of nationalism has awoken in Spain, and that more and more Spanish flags are hanging from the balconies of all Spain. That and an visible increase of hate speech in social networks.

I will update more later, as it seems that today is going to be a busy day. But so far I'd say it is going better than I had anticipated.

>>81078
Thank you, today I will busy, but I will try my best to give something worthwhile.

>>81089
To be fair, stopping the vote was the job from Catalonia's regional police, but they disobeyed orders and the Spanish central police had to intervene. They should still have gone something like "The vote is illegal, and we're going to close this place until tomorrow, and everyone will stay inside this building until dawn. Does everyone have food for the day?" and recording that on camera. If they act violent is when you start beating them up.
And yes, the people in charge are horrifically incompetent. I have hopes we can push for a new electoral law after this one.

>>81310
Good update m8

New update

According to some calculations from the Catalan government, the GDP has decreased 5~10% since last week. This is probably due to the biggest private business in Spain, Gas Natural, that sells gas and electricity to pretty much all Spain leaving the other day. Although I have my doubts regarding this number, Gas Natural factors around 23k million a year, being the first, second and fourth biggest business in Spain (different branches of the same big corporation), so there might be some truth to it.

Apparently there has been some calls towards the middle management of the Catalan administration from the side of business, saying that if they were to fall, they will "take them down with them". They are threatening with firing people in mass and with leaving Catalonia in the most damaging way possible.

Dissent is manifesting within the movement for independence due to all this chaos, and is probably worse that it appears in the media as of now, as even the Taliban have said the announcement from Tuesday (they have moved to Tuesday apparently) should be a pretend action and that they should negotiate a deal where more autonomy is gained for the province.

Nothing much has happened today other than the protest, but it still showed that it wasn't a 90% of Catalans that wanted independence, so that's a part of the narrative that is starting to fall apart.

>>81395
>the GDP has decreased 5~10% since last week.
Fug!

>>81396
>weighing GDP by a week's shift
Anon please

>>81395

Catalonia will go bankrupt if they secede, but this is the price they must pay. if they are to become european microcountry, they dont have another choice, its too late to stop the knife from going in now. Also What the fuck do the Taliban of all people have to say about spains negociations.

Alright, looks like the castle of cards that was the independence is falling apart.

In a similar effect to brexit, some people are "regretting their vote" the next day.
The independentist themselves are turning against independence. They were of the idea that Spain was stealing from them, and that once they became independent they would be rich. Turns out separating a country that has a strong economy and a strong national market like the UK is much more easy than breaking up an already established country where half the 3/4 of the national market is outside of your chunk of land.

I am of the believe that only the richer and entitled classes, plus the government employees are in favor of it at this point.

With that said, let's start

The protest the other day in Barcelona was massive and it proved to be a true nightmare for the Catalan government. Not even in their wildest dreams had they ever imagined so many people carrying Spanish flags on Catalonia.
This is very important, because the independence movement has lost the support from many business, and has lost quite a bit of support on the international side. The only thing they had left were the streets, and now that is starting to show some cracks. If they want to pull something like this they will need a massive support from the people, but the protest the other day has shown that the people of Catalan are more divided than they originally appeared.

The president of Catalonia and the nationalist I mentioned before (might as well add their names since I'm mentioning them so often) Puigdemont and Junqueras respectively, are starting to fight among themselves. Junqueras wants to go back, probably in hopes of not going to jail and become the president of Catalan in the future. Puigdemont is starting to look more and more like a scapegoat, he seems like he's willing to go to any lengths with the support of the (HIS) people. Support that he has lost. Despite that, he's still convinced about the UDI, and has threatening with calling traitors all those who are against him. Junqueras was not expecting the mass fleeing of business, and is trying to convince his to make the events of tomorrow be a stunt and try to keep the autonomy they already have. Even so, Puigdemont seems like he wants his moment of glory, and thinks that if he's arrested he would become a martyr.

The current party in charge of Catalonia is ruined. The bourgeoisie of Catalonia is scared, and despite being a part of the problem, they are blaming Puidgemont of everything, and saying he should go back to "sane nationalism". The priority has shifted from their flag to their business. Something tells me they won't get re-elected.

As far as I know, they are still planning on declaring independence tomorrow, despite having lost a lot of support and some are even saying the opposite thing and putting pressure on the man not to do it. If they fail to convince the man, they declare independence tomorrow. And they are probably planning to lie on it, likely taking airports, playing victim internationally, etc.

They also though the King of Spain was a useless figure. Today they are scared and are considering him as a formidable foe. If our president has done nothing, the king has done everything. First with his message and now, from his office, he has been meeting with powerful people and making calls to foreign countries, closing many of the doors the secessionist had internationally.

Plus some newspapers now are starting to doubt the figure of 893 wounded the other day, as there has been many fake photos, and some talks with some of the hospital staff has shown that that day they were taking people for anything, like nervous breakdown and dizziness.

A delegate of the Catalan government is also talking of making a "corral" for all the capital that has left and is still trying to leave Catalonia.

There might be some confrontation tomorrow, and apparently someone has said in the Catalan parliament that "is possible that tomorrow there will be confrontations and the first deaths, and not just one or two".

The situation in Catalonia is basically pre-revolutionary, even if the Catalan government was to back down now, is unlikely this process can be controlled, and returning the country back to what it used to is going to take a long time.

Tomorrow is the climax of this event. I'll try making an update of whatever nonsense ends up happening.

>>81402
Sorry, I should've explained that. We use the "Taliban" name for nationalist extremist that are very "committed" with the cause, such as the Basques and their multiple terrorist attacks across the country in the last decades. The name was probably due to many similarities between both group's actions, and eventually became a nickname for rabid nationalist that are willing to go to any length, like breaking mayor like the Catalans are doing now or even kill people to achieve their nationalism. Is very rarely used tho. For Spanish nationalism they use "extreme right" or "franquist" or "falangist" "fascist", although I expect that term to be used more often in here in the future since the rise of Nationalism in here recently.

Today is the day guys!

I'd like to say first of all that there's a total hermeticism and is getting harder and harder from the inside source I was relying on to get info on what is going on, but this is what I have to say.

It is very , very likely we will have a declaration of independence today. Apparently the president is saying that the only way to heal the damage and retrieve the business is to become independent. He's ignoring what everyone is telling him, even members of his own party and the others they made a coalition with that are telling him to stop.

They are already saying that the reason the business left Catalonia is because of Spain, and that the unemployment and the economic crisis are also the fault of Spain.

France, on the other hand, has said that they will not recognize the UDI and the first consequence of their actions would be to get out of the EU ipso facto, according to Nathalie Loiseau.

The Supreme Justice Tribunal of Catalonia does no longer trust the Catalan police and removes the monopoly on their security from this organization. They are now under Spain's Civil Guard body's watch… officially. They have the duty to protect the Justice Palace in case a UDI is declared. The judges have asked for reinforcements.

The declaration is today at 18h, 30 mins from now, and the National Assembly of Catalonia is asking all Catalans to "surround" the parliament at said time.

Members of the Catalan government are planning to sue the Constitutional tribunal for forbidding the assembly of the Catalan parliament yesterday.

More and more of Catalonia's autonomic police are showing on the streets. The plaza where the parliament is located at is completely closed to the public and surrounded by Catalonia's policemen.

The committees in defense of the referendum will appear across multiple emplacements in Barcelona.

A photo of a statue of the general Joan prim has appeared this morning with a Senyera flag and a Spanish flag.

Catalonia's police has said that "if the National Police wants to access the Catalan parliament, they will have to ask for permission first."

Pro-independence individuals arrived at first at 14h to the surroundings of the Parliament of Catalonia as was requested.
Many of them are students. Some of them claim "this is a decisive day for the country and its citizens". They will wait till 18h to assist the event of Puigdemont to declare indepence this evening.


Tweet from Julian Assange:
>"Tomorrow Spanish prime minister Mariano Rajoy will decide if Spain is a country of the ballot or the bullet."
https://twitter.com/JulianAssange/status/917508675710877696



And after all has been said, what I think is going to happen at this point is the Catalan government tries to stir up some conflict, then manipulate it to portray how Spain is the evil oppressor that is still using violence against Catalonia.

Also important detail, the police has seized documents from the residence of the secretary of the Vice president of the government of Catalonia that has a path written about how to make Catalonia an independent country. The idea was to fully make it a reality on 2022. I will post a summary once I've read it completely.

Also, some photos of how the surroundings of the parliament look right now.

>>81686
This is the first chance to show the world how the EU deals with Rebels.

Don't fuck this up Spain, don't be weak!

>>81687
Wouldn't the best course for Spain be to just continue doing nothing? No aggression, not even any defense. Just keep on denying all legitimacy without trying to enforce it. It'll fall apart by itself eventually.

>>81687
>EU
The EU has said this is "internal affairs of Spain" and has refused to interfere in the slightest other than say it supports Spain.

Plus, Catalonia wanted independence from Spain but still be part of the EU.

Also, the assemble has had a last minute delay of one hour. So we're gonna have to wait a little.

Well, the Catalan president starts by saying that this is not an internal matter, but that everyone has been meddling on it.

And this has nothing to do with a personal decision, but with the results of the referendum of 1-O. He's saying how violent it was and that the voters were assaulted from beginning to end of the day. And that the intention of creating panic has failed.

He says that the census in the schools (there was no census) were of at least 700k people. And that due to police action it wasn't possible to vote.

Then he congratulates everyone who made the referendum possible, from the computer experts to the government employees and the people who voted(but not to Israel that printed the ballots), whatever their decision was.

He wants everyone to keep calm and that his focus is none other than the economic project that is Catalonia.

Then he goes on about how Catalonia has been the core engine in Spain, plus the center piece of stability, the guarantor of democracy, and some other nonsense.

Now he's blaming how their proposal for an autonomic state created a "catalophobia", and that there were referendums with 2m people voting in favor… bla bla bla

That the Constitutional tribunal messed with their proposal and is how they are governing themselves today.

Then he says how the state refused all their proposals for secession, and they eventually responded with the police.

Blaming the state for the crimes of sedition they have been imputed with. And blaming Spain for refusing to dialogue and mediate with them. And that he wants to dialogue. That they are normal people that want to vote, nor crimials nor people trying a coup.

Says democracy trumps the constitution. And that "Yes" won. And that he proposes for Catalonia to become an independent state.

Then…

HE IMMEDIATELY ASK FOR THE PARLIAMENT TO SUSPEND THE DECLARATION OF INDEPENDENCE TO START A DIALOGUE FOR THE NEXT FEW WEEKS/MONTHS!


THAT'S ALL EVERYONE, HOPE YOU HAD FUN WITH CATALONIA'S SECESSION. I'M AFRAID NOBODY WINS THIS TIME!

HAVE A GOOD EVENING!

>>81698
Every
Fucking
Time

>>81698
He sounds like a faggot who got excited over is independence LARP only to cuck-out in the end.
Also, top waifu.

>>81698

sounds like the presidentl of catalonia or whatever his position is called got cold feet. Did not expect him to pull through but that sounds rather cuckish. The vote was a shit idea, poorly executed in the first place and now that his region was facing serious consequences for it he tries to pull out. I fear no other part of Europe will try to secede after this travesty.

Thank you for the detailed reports you provided for so long, Spain Anon! If this is the end, it was a potentially important milestone in recent european happenings. Hope You Stick around with us!

IMPORTANT UPDATE

News report inform of many keks sighed in multiple social media, as Catalonia becomes the shortest State in the history of manking
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_shortest-lived_sovereign_states

Many people listening to the speech of the president starting to celebrate as soon as the independence was declared, and they were still celebrating after their country had already exceeded its lifespan
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D5nFh-L0JYg

This is the day many websites, 4chan, twitter, facebook, reddit, and many more united to laugh at the independentist movement.

More to follow.

>>81710
Actually, I think they might be trying to pull an Slovenia on us, and gain their independence that way on the long. They still have not desisted in their endeavor, and will still try to salvage the lunacy we've just witnessed to maintain, or even gain more of what they had.

It all depends on our government now, and I don't have any inside source there, but I will give some updates on how the whole thing goes.

And I've been here since the beginning, just not posting much.
And thank you for taking the time to read all the updates.
I'll admit it is quite comfy here.

>>81705
>alicorn twilight
Doesn't matter how much time it passes, that will always be heresy.
R.I.P. Faust

>>81716
Also

8 SECONDS
S
E
C
O
N
D
S

>>81716

this settles it. the memes are not in favour of the seperatists. Catalonia blown the fuck out.

>>81716
I just remote-loaded the first pony-form Scitwi pic I saw. Unicorn Twi will always be better.

Small update of some probably important things.

The president of Catalonia is being called traitor by both sides of the spectrum, both pro and anti secession.

Many individuals of the Catalan government are signing this document as the Catalonia's declaration of independence.

https://www.ecestaticos.com/file/bb2dfcfd6f8443934cd1e483d48435e7/1507666798-documento_independencia.pdf

TL;DR: "Catalonia is a strong country, Spain oppresses and abuses us, the Spanish institutions are violent. The referendum legitimizes us, yet Spain sentences us to jail.
Bla bla bla repeating the same thing for a few pages, Catalan good Spanish evil.

We declare the right of self determination of Catalonia and its people.
We constitute the Independent Sovereign Republic of Catalonia.
We assert the Lay of juridic and functional transition
We affirm the negotiations with the Spanish state and to establish a regime of collaboration between both parts.
…Something something more of the same…

The legitimate representatives of the people of Catalonia:"

After all of this, this thing is as good as toilet paper.
Now we just wait till tomorrow for the judiciary to do its job.

>>81719
Agreed. Funnily enough, I got on the ride during the season 3 hiatus, and was indifferent to the change. I only started to favor Unicorn Twi around season 6-early 7.

>>81731

It costs 400 Million Euros to declare independence

for 8 seconds.

We have response from our prime minister (after a week and a half in silence) to the request for dialogue from the Catalan president!

Yesterday, the Catalan president said how evil the Spanish government had been, that Catalonia wanted to be independent my a huge margin, and then he declared independence, but not really, and asked the government for dialogue on a possible independence, forcing this one to make a move while he could play the victim to the international community if the government decided to use force and apply article 155 of the constitution.

Today, our prime minister makes a quick visit to the news (2 and a half minutes) where he basically says:
"Shoorry, I didn't get if yure independent or not, can you clarify so I can decide whether or not to apply article 155? Thank you very much"

AAAAAANNND… the balls goes back to Puigdemont, giving Rajoy (our prime minister) the moral justification to call the 155 if he did in fact declare the independence. And if he didn't, he would be eaten by his own party.

Puigdemont expected to answer with some vague statement and pass the ball back to Rajoy.

Is this going to be the greatest "no you first" of this generation?
Stay tuned.

>>81732
The series died for me that day the moment Twilight became princess Twilight. It didn't help that my other favorite character, Ponk, became relegated to just an obnoxious "in your face" nonsense character.
The series still has some very good moments, but is just not the same, sadly.

Also, article 155 of our constitution translated, for anybody curious about it.

"1. If an autonomous community [Spanish region] were not to fulfil the duties imposed upon it under the Constitution or other laws, or were to act in a manner that gravely attacked the general interest of Spain, the government, having first notified the First Minister of the autonomous community and, in if no reply were received, with an absolute majority in the Senate, may adopt the measures necessary to oblige that [region] to forcibly comply with said duties or to protect the aforementioned general interest."

"2. To execute the measures foreseen in the previous section, the government may give instructions to all of the authorities in the autonomous communities."

>>81894
So that's why the Catalan president cucked-out so fast.

>>81899
Is mostly a back and forth between the two trying to gain moral justification for taking down the other in the eyes of the international media.

If our prime minister declares the 155 first, the Catalan government would play victim and the international media would put pressure on the Spanish government to be more soft with them.

If Puigdemont declares independence first, he would become a criminal and it would be totally justified for our president to activate the 155 and take it down. Take over education, take over public media, and independence movement done in a few years.
He also has the handicap of "if he capitulated, the rest of his government and the independentist would eat him alive.

If he really cucked out is because he had no international support and the internal support and the international media narrative was falling apart fast. Plus, the exodus of multiple companies (that is still going on) also helped.

There's also article 472 of the penal code, crimes of rebellion, that I have seen many people calling for instead.



>Article 472

>Those who rise violently and publicly for the following ends are to be prosecuted:

>1. Derogate, suspend or modify total or partially the Constitution,

>2. Destroy or strip partially or fully of their prerogatives and faculties to the Queen or the King, or the regent, or force them to execute an act against their will.

>3. Stop the free celebration for public servants.

>4. Dissolve the General Courts, the Congress of Deputies, the Senate or any Legislative Assembly of an autonomous community, stop them from coming together, deliberate or resolve, tear any resolution, or subtract any of their attributions or competences.

-→5. Declare independence of a part of the National Territory.

>6. Replace the Government of the Nation of the government council of an autonomous community, or use or enforce itself the Government or Council of an autonomous community, or any of its member of any of their faculties, or to prevent or restrict their free exercise, or to compel any of them to perform acts contrary to their will.

>7. Subtract any kind of armed force to the obedience of the Government.



If they really want to pull an independence at this point, they're going to have to be very crafty about it, seeing as how they have lost many of their cards and multiple others are losing their strength.

>>81906
Thank you for the insight. That's very informative.

>>81906
Any predictions on where it could go from here?

>>81915
>>81916
Well, no support from the streets, nor the corporations and they did not get half of the international support they expected.

The only route they have now to gain their independence is to cry that Spain is oppressing them and have an international 3rd party intervene in the negotiations.
So expect them to bait the Spanish government to do something against "liberty" or "the will of the people" or "oppressive" to get some more international media coverage, and get the reporters to say how poor they are being treated under totalitarian of Spain. Then cry for 3rd party mediators as "Spain refuses to talk and relies to violence to get its way."

From the main government I have it less clear. If it was me, I would just press them to make the actual declaration or admit they are committing a criminal act on television, or bring the attention of the international press on business they don't want people to look. Like education. Pic related is a school book for 4+ year old. Second one I'm not sure the age. That while at the same time making it very easy for business to move away from the juridical uncertainty that is Catalonia right now. When they admit they are indeed committing a crime, they get jailed and their competences get audited, and subsequently replaced if they do not pass the audit.

However, I do not trust neither our prime minister nor our king one bit, and it wouldn't surprise me we have another stunt like the police attack to give them the position they need and eventually weaken Spain's position for a negotiation with the prospects of giving away the territory.

For now, we have to wait until someone moves piece.

>>81894
>>81899
>>81916

I guess its just means that Spain is legally allowed and will in fact lay the military fucksmack on Catalonia should they ever get serious ideas about having a declaration of independence that is longer than a premature ejaculation.

Haven't updated in a while because not much has happened, plus, the extra security makes it much harder to get some actual information on the inside process of everything, so there's even less info to provide.

It seems that the main objective of the UDI was not to actually become independent, but to negotiate more concessions and autonomy.

From what I've heard, their objective is to become short of a commonwealth state.
Basically, to have their own laws and justice, their own foreign policy, their own state, their own sport leagues… But still allows the rest of Spain to keep paying their pensions, defend them militarily in case of attack, and buy their products without any import tariffs.

They wanted to look like the good guys after asking for dialogue in case Spain applies the 155, or get some way out of this mess via negotiations.

Since our government asked them to clarify if there was declaration or not, they cannot remain ambiguous and appealing to all sides anymore, and will have to face either Spain or the the pro-independence members of their own community.
Whatever they do, they lose negotiation power.

The president of Catalonia has to choose whether to become a coward or face 25 years of jail, and both the national police and the independent are waiting to eat him regardless of his choice.

But the real problem comes from the other parties they formed a coalition with. They are even more divided than before. Seems like more than half of them want more autonomy and forget independence (preferably the commonwealth state, although good luck with that seeing how things are going). They were actually better prepared than I originally though for their independence move, but they did not foresee at all the mass exodus of economic giants from the region.

The rest are pushing hardcore for a UDI, since new elections would mean they have to kiss goodbye to their support after ruining the region and looking like total clowns to their peers (8 SECONDS).

Whatever is their final choice, they can't prolong this situation for much longer, due to economic data starting to come out (and I mean REAL one, not predictions).

Also, a recent poll has given more votes to "right wing" parties in the country over the socialist and the separatist. My guess is that, despite many people became pro-independence after the police performance in the day of the referendum, much more have, and will change to whatever offers economical stability because they fear they will be out in the streets.

Now to some interesting details, and this proves they actually put more though into their independence that I had originally predicted.
The government of Catalonia attempted to buy a large cargo of weapons in December last year. The contents of the order were the following:

Weapons

-300 sub-machine guns 9x19 mm
-400 rifles 5,56x45 mm (HK G36)
-50 pressure rifles .338 Lapua MAG
-50 pressure rifles Whisper
-50 rifles 7,62x51mm (.308Win)

Ammo

-5 million cartridges for the sub-machine gun 9x19 mm
-400k cartridges for the 5,56x45mm
-20k cartridges for the .338 Lapua MAG
-20k cartridges for the 300 Whisper
-20k cartridges for the 7,62x51mm

Now, the Ministry of Defense saw this massive order, and stopped it. Then the ministry asked for an explanation on why there was such a need for this much weaponry. No response was given.

The central government has given up till tomorrow for the Catalan president to give an answer to whether they did declare independence or not, else they will apply the 155. The problem is, they don't have the votes as of yet. I have heard they have made a pact with the socialist for support, but they are nothing but rumors, and the conditions of the agreement are so ridiculous not even our prime minister would go for it.

As I said, nothing much has happened, but at least next week promises to be a little more energetic.

>>82619
Worth the read

>>82619
>Weapons

>-300 sub-machine guns 9x19 mm
>-400 rifles 5,56x45 mm (HK G36)
>-50 pressure rifles .338 Lapua MAG
>-50 pressure rifles Whisper
>-50 rifles 7,62x51mm (.308Win)

Ammo

>-5 million cartridges for the sub-machine gun 9x19 mm
>-400k cartridges for the 5,56x45mm
>-20k cartridges for the .338 Lapua MAG
>-20k cartridges for the 300 Whisper
>-20k cartridges for the 7,62x51mm

Those are some big guns…

>>82622
For you

Sorry for the delay, we have more developments from this whole thing.

For starters, the president of Catalonia responded to the request from our prime minister to clarify his declaration of independence, it went something like this:

>"I want to solve this situation we're in right now, and that was my intention during the declaration of the 10th of October, and I said what I said not out of weakness but as a proposal to find a solution between Spain and Catalonia.
>It was a surprise when you called about activating article 155, threatening with suspending the autonomic government of Catalonia.

>[references to the violence in the day of >the referendum and getting 80%+ of support]

>We want to dialogue like proper democracies."

Then he makes 2 petitions.

>1.- That they want the police and the civil guard that is still in Catalonia after these 2 and a half weeks (not being allowed to lodge in hotels, but are receiving housing from the people of Catalonia that think this has gone too far) to leave the region. Plus, they also complain how their bank accounts are frozen.

>2.- They want to establish a date to start the first negotiations and the first deals.

As you might have notice, this is not even addressing the question from our prime minister "did you declare independence?", and the response from him was as follows:

>"I'm sorry that you, representative of the Estate in Catalonia has failed to answer the requirement I made.
>It is imperative to clarify this.
>I hope that you answer with clarity the requirement >I made before the second date limit [this Thursday]
>The application of the 155 is not to suspend the government of Catalonia, but to reestablish the legality in the region.
>Returning to legality is an imperative before any democratic dialogue.
>Catalonia has never had in its history more liberty and more political and economical freedom than they do now, the only conflict in the region is a conflict of legality.

Now, I guarantee that our prime minister did not write this himself, but that's besides the point.

The goalpost for the conflict between the two governments is moved to Thursday.

A video for the pro-independence side (totally not made by taxpayer money and totally not appealing to the feelings of the viewer)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wouNL14tAks

(Also, totally not a copy of this other propaganda video by Ukraine back in 2014 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Hvds2AIiWLA)

The chief of the police of Catalonia has been arrested and prosecuted, and he has ended in Parole, but he must appear in the courts each 15 days and his passport has been seized, which means he cannot leave the country.

Also, the presidents of two Catalan organizations, ANC and OMNIUM, that are two pro independence organizations that focus on making pro-independence campaigns, have been sentence to prison by the judge with no possibility of bailing.

The European Free Trade Association (EFTA), the backup plan in case that Catalonia couldn't get into the EU after the independence, has rejected the claims of the government of Catalonia, leaving Catalonia completely out of a common european market.

Also, the chief of the Catalan police has started asking "who disobeyed orders of stopping the referendum?" to his subordinates (the irony).

I'm inclined to believe that the pro-independence movement is losing steam. Many of the previous radicals are seeing the whole they are actually in. No Euro, and business and deposits fleeing away.
But they are running away because a large chunk of the population believes that the independence movement has a reasonable chance of success, and that, out of a sudden, the people realize all that seceding would entail. And they are getting scared.

Some of the reporters that were in favor are starting to back away in a way that could be described as "embarrassing". The secessionist movement has been fueled by an outrageous amount of public money, and many reporters, media outlets, civil associations… and many more. All of them payed by the taxpayers.

If the 155 really happens, much of the scheme falls apart, and they're thousands the ones who are living out of this business. Many of them will probably end up in the streets.

The Catalan government has just keep spending money without a worry knowing full well that our prime minister would subsidize everything. The moment documents start floating around things are going to get ugly.

They still have some maneuver until Thursday, but it is my believe they will decrease the tone and pressure mostly because very few people are going to vote if they summon an election, and because there's a lot of juridical instability. And if there's something business really abhor is juridical instability.

What really worries me about all of this is that our prime minister has never been the one to actually DO things, and his statement of "did you really declare independence" and also the calls to "come back to legality" to negotiate leads me to believe he actually wants to negotiate with them, instead of sending them all to jail. He might be very dumb and only got into his position because everyone else was much worse, but negotiating with them is political suicide in the current state of affairs. I wouldn't even discard an intervention from the military if that were to happen.

Regardless, this is just speculation from what I see, and I hope I'm wrong.

Let's see how it all unfolds.

>>83024

seems like the "president of Catalonia" is as whimsical as he is in his first impression during this event. Wants to be independent but his inner manlet wont allow it.

>The chief of the police of Catalonia has been arrested and prosecuted
>Also, the chief of the Catalan police has started asking "who disobeyed

Irony Indeed. You either support a revolution or you dont. little late to have second guesses about it.

>out of a sudden, the people realize all that seceding would entail. And they are getting scared.
>Many of them will probably end up in the streets.

Are the Catalonias this naive? did they really think this would all be but cheering and flowers? that they would get their own country served on a silver platter with no consequences whatsoever? This is a part of independence. To accept to cut your losses.

At this point I am growing more towards the opinion that Catalonia dont just cant handle its own independence, it also does not deserve it. These people are pampered wimps who cant stand up for themselves and take the expected punishment. Their ancestors must be turning in their graves would they see this.

Spanish MP should just send in the military in and smite this travesty down, its a waste of everybodies time.

>>83029
>seems like the "president of Catalonia" is as whimsical as he is in his first impression during this event. Wants to be independent but his inner manlet wont allow it.

To be fair, he has to make a very difficult choice. Either clearing independence and end up in jail, or cucking to the country's government, in which case he gets eaten alive by his own side.

Plus, there's a theory going around that the reason they rushed their movement so much was because of this

http://www.europarl.europa.eu/news/en/press-room/20160303IPR16944/ending-eu-citizens-bank-secrecy-in-andorra

>An EU deal with Andorra, which will make it harder for EU citizens to hide cash from the tax man in bank accounts there.
>Under the deal, the EU and Andorra will automatically exchange information on the bank accounts of each other's residents, starting in 2018 for information collected since 1 January 2017.

And if this happens, all the rot and embezzlement from Catalonia will come out in the light. But is still just a theory.

>Are the Catalonias this naive?
They were expecting a peaceful resolution, in which they will vote, a yes would come out, and the Spanish government would agree to it, or an international body will mediate between the both of them (preferably the EU).
They did not expect all this chaos, as you can clearly understand by just reading their slogans (Spain hates us, Spain robs us, and their most recent one, Spain hits us), and how will they become so rich after leaving Spanish influence.
Note that, unlike brexit, where the arguments were mostly "EU is imposing rules that we disagree with, EU is imposing unlimited refugees on us, EU is not even a democratic body, most of the arguments came because they are much more rich than the rest, and they would flourish even more when they don't have to pay for the rest of states that have a much smaller GDP than they do. They complain that they are paying more than the rest because they have a bigger GDP, and say is unfair (but is totally fair to have the rich pay more of their income to subsidize the poor, that's what good states do).

Also, small note, the reason why they are so rich is because during Franco's era, when the country was nothing but rubble after the civil war, he decided to rebuild most of the industry in Catalonia, despite being one of the strongholds of the enemy in the war.
Why? Because they are at the very northeast of the country, connecting with France. If you build the products here and you have to export them you will save quite a sum in transport.
He never though of diversifying the rest of the economy of the different regions because it was much more efficient to have it there. He probably never even dreamed that we would have the "Autonomic community" model and that each region would have its own separate government with its own healthcare, its own government, its own public media.

That's pretty much where all our money goes. It doesn't go to refugees, nor to socialism, it goes to subsidize our state model that cost around 10% of our GDP, sanity and education alone take around 9% of the GDP.

>Spanish MP should just send in the military in and smite this travesty down, its a waste of everybodies time.

It is a waste of everybody's time, and is also destabilizing lots of the mayor business in the country. This is going to cost the entire country a lot in the economic sense. I'm afraid of just seeing the overall data from this month's economic productivity.

not OP but I read this BANK RUN RELATED UPDATE in a halfpol thread so I'll mirror it here:

Wow. Its happening. Catalonia going to make a run on the banks tomorrow. Everyone taking their money out at the ATMs. Strike, European style. Going to be glorious. If I was in Spain, Id be taking all my money out of the banks, because Catalonia is going to shut the banks down Greek style. Actually Id remove my money out of any European bank as they still have that toxic debt hanging around from 2008. wow tomorrow will be glorious !!

Pay back is a bitch for the Catalonia genocide.

here are the banks being targeted:

Caixa Bank, Sabadell, Bankia, BBVA and Santander

>>83246
>shitty edit
Nice job, crapalonians.

The info from inside the Catalan Parliament is now pretty much tightly shut, so take everything I saw about them with a grain of Salt.

The pro-independence movement is losing motivation, mostly because they are realizing that if they want to become independent, they're going to need to resort to violence, and that goes against all the international victim propaganda that they are still using today.

There have been a couple of protest organized by ANC and Ómnium after their respective presidents were arrested and accusing the government of taking political prisoners.

There was a response from the Catalan president to the "whether or not he declared independence" that goes as follows:

>"The 1 of October Catalonia declared independence in a referendum with a bigger percentage of the electorate that allowed the UK to start the brexit process"
Participation in brexit: 72%
Participation in Catalonia: 38%
(?)
>"I suspended the popular mandate for independence on the 10th to favor dialogue."
>"I proposed a meeting on the letter on Monday that you have yet to answer"
>"I asked to revert the repression, but the presidents of both Òmnium and ANC have been arrested" (to be fair, this was a decision of the courts, not the government)
>"The suspensions still upholds, yet despite all our efforts it seems that the only answer for the government is the suspension of the autonomy, and a refusal to talk"
>"If the state keeps on obstructing dialogue and keep the repression, the Catalan Parliament could proceed to vote the UDI that it did not vote on the 10th"

Response:

>"The government of Spain has acknowledge the refusal to answer clearly and concisely whether or not the President of Catalonia declared independence"
>"The government will continue with the procedures for article 155 to reestablish the legality in Catalonia"
>"Next Saturday the Minister council will assemble and provide the Senate with the power to reestablish the constitutional order in Catalonia to protect the people"

So yeah, Saturday is when this finally gets started (hopefully) unless the president of Catalonia cucks out, in which I don't have any doubts that our prime minister will act like nothing had happened, and even give them more money.

The Spanish government, lead by the (((right wing))) party of PP, didn't have the proper votes to activate 155, so they made a pact with the main socialist party of the country, (((PSOE))), to gain the votes. What kind of deal they have made has not been disclosed, but there are some nasty rumors flying over social media.

The government also wants to have regional elections in Catalonia this January as part of the application of article 155.

At this point in time, I would expect the Catalan government to just jump the shard and declare the independence at any moment after applying the 155.

Also, the chick that made the propaganda video from earlier has decided to parody herself in a new video… for some reason
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AGLTrfr6aDA

>>83246
Yeah, about that, I heard that people were taking out their money from those banks.
A little bit of context, Caixa and Sabadell are the ones that had their headquarters in Catalonia before this whole mess started, and have now moved outside the region.
The reason with those two moving out was because the Independence declaration moved Catalonia into legal limbo, and everyone had no idea what was going to happen with their money. Not just the Catalans, but all Spain. And this is not counting individuals, but many business that simply could not afford to lose those savings.

This was a boycott organized by the remaining staff of ANC and Òmnium by the name of "the strength of the people" in a form of protest against the government for applying the 155. The banks had prepared yesterday some countermeasures for it, but it turned out to have a smaller support than expected.

What is weird is that people that were there to withdraw money were told by the bank attendants to do it on the cashier, but they insisted to do it on cashing out in the counter.
Also, they did not empty their accounts, but removed a chunk of it, many voicing their intentions of using it on local business with a stronger support of "the nation of Catalonia"

CaixaBank and Sabadell reported that nothing alarming had happened, no branch office full, no cashier without cash. All normal.

Funny detail is that this boycott was to take place on the 20th, last pay of the quarterly payment and the day banks collect a lot of cash. In other words, take money out, spend it on local business, local business reimburse money in bank. Genius way of making the banks earn some extra cash in commissions.
Also, Òmnium receives 160k € per year from these institutions that promoted the boycott against.

One last thing.
In that pic, is curious that the chad has the estelada on its hand, instead of the normal Catalan flag. It was registered in Cuba in 1928 by the Freemasons and was used during the civil war by the commies. Nowadays, it is used to represent the independence movement, but it also has heavy communist implications.

>>83246
>>83248

no wonder this shit is a poorly made barely edited ripoff, it was made on /leftypol/. look at the embedded link markings.

I guess that also settles what side we should support if /leftypol/ tries to carve out the anus of the crapalonias.

>>83297
I have more gifts from halfpol

Presenting: GREATER CATALONIA!

Finally! The stalemate has ended, and the Spanish government has moved the first piece.

The Minister council had a meeting this morning in which they were to dialogue the measures to be taken towards the Catalan government and their refusal to comply with their constitutional duties.

In short, the 155 has at last been summoned!
The president and its whole government is to be disbanded, all their initiatives against the constitution or the State will be vetoed.
Catalonia itself will have to hold elections in a maximum of 6 months.

There's only the need for the Senate (where the current governing party has an absolute majority) to approve of this next Friday 27 to "guarantee the law, the constitution and coexistence return to Catalonia" as the Spanish prime minister said.
In other words, their autonomy will be suspended up until constitutional order is reestablished.

The average amount of business leaving Catalonia daily has gone up to 70~, and is speculated to have lost 25~30 of their GDP.
All of this has force the executive power to ask the senate to take control of the Catalan government and the parliament that, although it won't be dissolved, all their unconstitutional or unlawful initiatives will be vetoed.

The Catalan police is to be put "under direct command of the Spanish government" and all their high command that refuses to obey the orders of the main government will be replaced.

The public television is to be intervened as well, to guarantee a "plurality of audiovisual media".

Since article 155 is not specific on the limits of which the government has in order to apply the article, many were speculating that it would be a "soft" one, but it turns out is doing basically an entire suspension of the autonomy.

There's a protest scheduled for today at 17:00 from the side of the pro-independence movement against the measures of the 155. There's already more than 150 buses confirmed from other parts of Catalonia outside of Barcelona.
Tonight at 21h Puigdemont, president of Catalonia, will make a public appearance to speak to the Catalans.

>>83379
Not even independent yet and they have already annexed a third of Spain and half of France.

Would love to see the French military join this party, so we can have a 3 way orgy with Catalonia in the middle

>>83457

Expand Fascism.

TL;DR of speech of president of Catalonia:

>"The desitions made by the Catalans in the ballot box is nullyfied in the offices of the Spanish government."
>"They have proclaim themselves in the worst desition since Franco."
>"The Catalan government is not an instition that is born form the constitution, and no government desition can delete this fact."
>"We will not allow it, humilliation reach to all the corners of Catalonia."
>"I will ask the Parlament to arrange a session in which we will debate the attempt to saboutage our sovereignty."
Then (he says this is Spanish) where he denounces the damage this desition has done to democracy, and (this in english) if you consider the democratic values of Europe are at risk in Europe, so are they in Catalonia.
And he finishes:
>"LONG LIVE CATALONIA"

If you want to have an idea of how many people are outside the parliament right now, you can check this livestream https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vUnfvs4z_Ic

Also, some livestreams of the events that took place this evening if you want to take a look
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t8ijDUXmiqg
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KJX5cLFb5cQ

Funny thing is, he did not mention anything regarding the declaration of independence. I do not discard the possiblity of him doing so, but I would expect the other members of government and his supporters won't be very happy about it.

Next important date is next Friday, but anything could happen in a week.
We'll see.

>>83492

Thanks for the Update Spain Aoon. Looking forward to Friday. Hope Spain will kick some seperatist asses.

Nothing important has happened, but I will write how I believe things are going:

Many independentist were wishing for the 155 to happen so that they could cry victim louder than ever before, until it was applied. Nobody had expected they were going to be this hard on the application, since the PP (governing party) needed the help of the PSOE (socialist that were in favor of dialogue with the independentist), so the application of the article would be very soft, elections and what not.
They also though they would just win back the elections and they would have another argument in favor of independence to the outside of the world. However, that didn't come to be.
The president, Junqueras, and all the government new they were sentenced, but they weren't expecting that all the people they trust (family members and friends, mostly sucking government tit).

Many of the people in there that are just draining money are going on the streets. Many earning like gods and unable to do anything properly (just like the rest of the country). And they are not going back to work in a while.
As you can probably imagine, they have sum their voices or make them louder towards the government of Catalonia, either to just go full independent, or to pull down their pants and lay in dog position and beg big daddy government to destroy their rectum.
However, I do not know how much support is for each posture.

TV3 is another one who's getting manhandled by the government. Our public television is heavily subsidized, and anybody who even dares to question the government is going out in the street. And many people live (very well) from TV3. Worst comes to worst they will close the channel, although they rather not do so.

At the economic level, the real drama is at the small and middle business; those who do not have the capital to move outside Catalonia, also adding that people are not spending a big amount of cash due to the unknown of what might happen, plus the boicott from the rest of Spain (that is apparently quite widespread) they are running out of credit.
And obviously, banks are not lending a dime, and many of their investors are asking for the money both in cash and in advance.

I wouldn't be surprise if some successfull bussines have to close doors in a few months due to it. I will post the numbers once I get them in here, but expect something terrifying.

Some people have changed suppliers to other business in Spain, since nobody is going to make an order to Catalonia if they cannot guarantee the products arrives in time and would not be stopped in the middle of a general strike or because they outright closed the border, or some retarded independentist decide to burn a truck.

The Catalan police is in very big trouble.

The law for the police and security forces of Spain estipulates:

Article 27

Section 2

>The misconduct can be soft, severe, and extremely severe. The soft misconduct will preescribe in a month, the severe in 2 years, and the very severe in 6 years.

Section 3

>The folowing is very severe misconduct:

→a. The failing of complying with the duty to the constitution.

And during the day of the referendum, many looked the other way in schools. And there's quite the amount of videos of the event in all social media and the calls to the 112 (911 of Spain).
They have realized they have been sold by their immediated bosses (should've known better than to trust a politician).

After the change in direction, I would expect most of them to obey the new administration, whether or not they are independentist. The betrayal is important, but mostly because they don't want to end up in the street. I don't expect them to defend the government in the slightless.
The Catalan government is also suspecting there are hundreds of Mossos collaborating with the Spanish Civil Guard, even independentist because they want to save their asses.

Also, another video parody of the "HELP CATALONIA"
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cvFQooj0Fjc

>>83614
You might have to wait less than you think.
The president of Catalonia is debating whether or not to go to the country's Senate on Thursday to make a statement… for some reason.
He might end up handcuffed out of that tho.
We'll see.

>>83752

The price for not pulling through is being at the mercy of your enemies. Catalonia is well and truly fucked. Politically, econimially and civil. The Police is going to get the blunt of the punishment, but they will not be the only ones getting screwed by this. not by a long shot. The rest of the country hates them and their own people feel betrayed by their actions. I would not want to trade places with them.

Last thing I heard the prankmaster himself will be going to jail for 30 years for high teason.

Well, this is just surreal at this point.

Let's start. There was a meeting today morning where a possibility of summoning elections was raised in the Catalan parliament. The meeting got quite loud and people on social media and the streets voiced their concerns for the UDI. Tweets with "Fraud", and "Disappointment" and "indignation" and other fun stuff became quite common.
Some of the "core" of the interdependence team has outright resigned

After delaying the public appearance 4 times today, Puigdemont made his final speech a few hours before the 155 is applied by the government:

>"My duty is to exhaust all possibilities to find and pact a solution to stop article 155"
>"There are no guarantees that justify summoning elections, and the 155 is unfair"
>"I tried to obtain guarantees, but I did not managed to get a response to the government of Spain, that took adbvantage of the situtation to add more tension"
Then he mades a call for peace and compromise from the citizenry because "that's the only way they'll end up winning"
Now, get this, he finished his speech, then he says that THE PARLIAMENT OF CATALONIA will decide about the independence after he confirms he will not summon elections.

So, in other words, in a true Spanish politician fashion, kicking the ball and let someone else handle the problem. Catalonia really is Spain.

Now for the parliament session, that took place an hour later:

>New path for out nation, 155 is the worst side of evil Spain… bla bla bla.
>Some insults to Puigdemont that did not even showed up for the event of the declaration of independence.
>"The president had many chances, but he let them go"
>"He's only interested in victimhood"
>More insults
Some parties declare they will stay true to the mandate of the people of Catalonia
>More shame, and some words of encouragement for him to make the step necessary for the UDI.

At the same time this was happening, the Senate's commission was discussing whether or not to apply the 155 in the measures the government proposed with a modification by the socialist.
22 votes in favor, 5 against.
Now tomorrow on 10am the Senate itself will vote on it.
If they were to finally declare the independence, my money would be on them doing it a few hours after the Senate's decision.

Most of the counselors of Catalonia are fighting each other at this point, most are in favor of saving their own asses and cuck. Some of them are threatening with resigning as well.
Puidgemont has said that he does not want to stop now, but if he does not get support from everyone, he jumps ship, whereas the vice president is on full speed towards the mist of independence, wherever it might lead.
The president offered the presidency to the vice president, which he rejected. Then he ask some of the more radicals if they want to do the honors, but they all remain silent as tombs. They have tried their hardest to get the government to stop the 155 if they summoned independence, but is not happening. The socialist proposed a measure that if they summoned elections, the 155 gets suspended, but it was rejected. The 155 is getting drilled into their rectums whatever they do.
Most of the government probably do not even care about independence anymore, and they just want to avoid jail, specially the president that is pretty dam screwed.
From what I've heard, they went to the Spanish government government and asked for immunity, and they were basically told to go fuck themselves.
So the only solution they have left at this point is to declare independence, and end up as martyrs.

And that's pretty much how it went, excluding some rumors that might not come true.

Anybody else excited for the grand finale of this madhouse?!

>>84227

Nice Update Spain Anon. And yes.

>Anybody else excited for the grand finale of this madhouse?!

I am. Looking forward to the first government summoned police state in Europe.
Cant see the government and the calatonian police not ending up in jail or getting fired. This province is done for as far as I can tell. And the worst is yet to come for them. Dont think any other state in Europe will try to secede from its country anytime soon after this fiasco. That will take a lot more military involvement.

Also what a charade, they only unleash the SWAT cops to whack down their own citizens, but not onto the floods of illegal mudslimes or communist protesters.

>>84227
Any news about the outcome of the vote?
I see news here in Norway is reporting that they chose to declare independence.

>>84227
>>84303
Yep, looks like the vote is in and they declared dependence from Spain.
http://archive.is/6SrOr

>>84304
Now it gets interesting.

>>84305
It is going to be fun to see what happens. The politicians can, and probably will, be charged with treason and dragged away. But it is probably a lost cause for Spain and EU. They can accept it and loose Catalonia, or they can refuse and even more people in Catalonia will side with the call for independence.
As I see it, all in all the EU just got even smaller and that is a good thing.

>>84307
Can mention that it would have been better ways to dismantle the EU. But as long as the political elite wants globalism it sadly is the only way as I see it.

EU have stated they will only talk to Spain and the central government in Madrid.

>>84303
>>84304
>>84305
Excuse me, I just home.
Let me give you a rundown of what happened today.

Senate meeting today:

10:00

Rajoy (prime minister of Spain):



>"I came to this chamber to ask for your support"
>"Using the 155 is not something we usually do. Since 1978, this is the first time is being applied. We are in an exceptional situation for an exceptional reason and with very dare consequences"
>"Catalonia has ignored the laws and the constitution, and they themselves have recognized it."
>"They have approved a new legality, the law of the referendum, a transitorial law, and there has ben talks about a consitution"
>"This is the biggest derision towards the State since the coup of 1981"
>"What would you you think if I supressed the control to the government here today?"
>"Would there be something more offensive for the citizens?"
>"Is this democracy?"
>"The constitutional tribunal has been ignored, but they don't care because nothing is important, so they can fulfil the will of a holy mayority than later talks about dialogue. There has been a referendum without guarantees and then they affirm the people of Catalonia have manifested freely."
>"They have thread on the law, the State, and the right of minorities (?)"
>"There is no other way. The only thing that can be done is to appeal to the law."
>"He had two oportunities to clarify whether or not he declared independence. It was a necessary clarification, and not a hard one"
>"The only dialogue I received from Puigdemont was about the terms and conditions of the independence of Catalonia, and that's something I can't do."
>"I would've come to defend my positions even if i was in a clear minority"
Cheers in parliament
>"Despite what the Catalans have been told, this will be bad for its economy and they will leave the EU" (Catalan press has been going on about how they wouldn't necessarily leave the EU were they to seccede)
>"We request the application of 155 to reestablish the rule of law"
>"We have to save Catalonia from the damage is recieving due to the andticonstitutional conducts. We have to protect the Catalans from an intolerant minority that declares itself owner of Catalonia and pretends to make the rest of the Catalans submit to their doctrine"
The other parties also have a share in the discussion, the socialist critizice him and request for him to accept the reversive ammendment to the 155 if the Catalan government summons elections.
The communist-separatist-muslim-lovers supported by george soros of Podemos say that the president does not like neither Spain, nor Catalonia and he wants to bury 40 years of progress and go back to Franco's regime.
The separatist parties acuse the prime minister of critizicing them for being different, and he cannot claim the mayority of Catalonia is evil. That they want a republic, and they are not evil for it. That they want their right of self determination, whereas the government wants to decide everything about Catalonia. That nobody has asked for forgiveness to the 1k wounded. That they will not back down and long live Catalonia.

12:00

Meeting on the Catalan parliament:

Delayed till 12:30
Delayed till 12:45
No announcement, but delayed till 13:30
Meanwhile, people and mayors are shouting in the street "independece!"

The party of Citizens (right wing center, and agains the independence) starts.Their president in the Catalan parlament:
>"Today is a sad day. Is a day when a coup against democracy instanciated in 1978 is done. You are declaring the republic today. Remember that the laws that you made for it are illegal by the laws of this parliament, the laws of the state, and the constition."
>"You all have broken everything. The president has been an independentist all his live, and this plan was all written." (Is true, I have read it, more on that later)
>"You proposed a plan to declare independence in 18 months, and then you made up a referendum because your legs shaked. Then you go and lose the 2015 elections. Yet you keep going forward just like the first of this month"
>"Are you that shameless to say this is all due to the 155? Really? Are you going to blame us?"

Vicepresident of Catalonia, Oriol Junqueras, gets up and leaves the plenary session
Still the president of the Catalan Citizens:

>"Seems like you don't want to hear how have you people ruined Catalonia"
>"You are going in history Puigdemont for ruining Catalonia, not for separating it from Spain. You believe yourselves to be gods"
>"We are proposing elections"
He rips apart his copy of the declaration of independence.
>"This paper is ilicit, immoral, and we will not allow you to break Spain and ruin us all."
The rest of the party Citizens claps for their president.
The SPC (socialist party of Catalonia) also adds their voice saying that they want their whole country, and that they do not represent the whole Catalonia. That a minority cannot impose itself on a mayority. Also screaming at them for the UDI. Then he annouces they will also leave the plenary session. That nobody wants the 155, but is a consequence of going outside the law.
Catalonia yes we can (CSQEP) party, says as well that you cannot respond to a barbarity with another barbarity and positions themselves against the UDI as well. That they have to decide in a legal referendum. Plus they also declare they will vote "no" to the UDI. They also insult the prime minister and say they will stand with the people, no matter what.
Now for the Popular Party of Catalonia(PPC), which I will skip since they pretty much say more of the same with other words. They will also not vote.

Cont

>>84314

Now for the people that are in favor of independence:
Candidacy of popular unity (CUP):
>"We will not stop until we have our home back"
>"There's nothing we can do other than declare independence. We have to build the republic in a context of fight and resistence. With democracy and without violence. It is time for the people of Catalonia"
>"It is time, without State structures, building the republic from the bottom. Today is a happy day, we initiate the destitution of the regime of the 78 and the monarchy. long live the earth"
Together for the yes (JxSí):
>"Cataluña was always open to dialgue. But this dialoge has been buried by the judicial institutions"
>"We are forced to build our own country, our own State"
>"If the 155 is approved, we will go back in time 40 years, that's why we make this teps today" She also says the 155 is a democratic aberration.
>"Our dialogue are the urns, a democracy enforcced by the citizens"
People cheer
>"There are hundred, thousands of people investigated, 700 mayors, raids on houses and offices, 1k wounded for police and civil guard, threatens of shooting, of jail."
Says the police is following her and her family
>"I don't want that police take pictures of me when I go out on the streets with my daughter"
>"We had a first seat in a truly unique spectable. A cultural revolution. We lost the fear. Today we found a new country over dignity!"
SOme more interventions…

Voting starts, citizens and PSC get out of the plenary. PPC stays.
Some people starts looking bad, screams of "long live spain", people with spanish flags in the parliament.
The voting is secret.
And

15:11
The Catalan republic is announced
https://twitter.com/Esquerra_ERC/status/923898947638358017/photo/1

70 votes in favor, 10 no, and 2 blank ones.

Everyone in the parlament hugs and kisses.
The prime minster ask for everyone to remain calm.
The flag of Spain is removed from the town hall of Girona.
Counsil of Ministers summoned for this evening at 19:00
People screaming freedom at the Catalan Parliament.

Even fucking Podemos says is against the declaration of independence this way, can't help it since he has sunk to fourth place in the polls since all this started.

16:00

Senate voting starts
155 is approved.
214 votes in favor.
The government is to start the intervention of Catalonia immediately.
Council of ministers is at 18:00 now

Vicepresident of Catalonia:
>"We wamt to reiterate our compromise with being a united people, that want to guarantee equality of rights of all its citizens"
President of catalonia:
>"Citizens of Catalonia, this is a time for us to stay on the side of peace. As always and as it always will be. We would be the institutions in conjuction with the people and society"
Eu says nothing changes for them, and that they still back up the Spanish constitution.

The prime minister in the Senate thanks the senators that approved article 155 of the constitution.
Says there will be a declaration at night today.

The Council is making a meeting right now, let me catch a break and will update everything later on today.
Shit is finally going down after a month of a staring contest.

So, the independence was aproved.
Not separated from spain, but most people are ready to separate.
Now what?

>>84314
>>84315
Many thanks for the update and rundown of what have happened.
Could an independent Catalonia be Spains Commifornia? I assume Catalonians usually votes for leftists, and when they no longer has a say in Spanish politics will Spain become a better place? Also would Catalonia be a good place to send all immigrants to?
>I have to admit I am not fully into Spanish politics and demographics

>>84314
>>84315

Thank you for the current event contirbution Spain Anon. This is indeed quite exciting. Spain and Catalonia have pussyfooted around so long, I am glad it is finally over and that the gloves are coming off.

>>84312
>>84311
>>84308
>>84307
>>84305
>>84304
>>84303

I Expect catalonia to be crushed by the spanish military. The EU will keep itself out of the affair to no get any dirt on themselves. The officials and local police will be put behind bars, banks will close, public live will be supervised by spain and it will have an economic crisis.

The State department of the US says that "that territory is an integral part of Spain" and that it will back the measures of the government of Rajoy.

"USA maintains a great friendship and aliance with Spain, NATO ally" said Rex Tillerson

https://twitter.com/DanLinden/status/923926823263666176/photo/1

TV3 changed schedule at the lat minute and suspended the program of "A toda pantalla" to celebrate the referendum of the 1-O.

Fights in the wikipedia articles of Catalonia
https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Catalonia&action=history
https://es.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Catalu%C3%B1a&action=history

The parliament removes Spanish flag
https://twitter.com/eudaldcc/status/923932681628454912/photo/1

The Constitutional tribunal has NOT suspended the vote of the UDI in Catalonia, and has given the prosecution 3 days to prepare.

Both France and Germany refuses to recognize Catalonia. And while Macron says that whatever happens is Spain is the responsability of Spain, Merkel encourages Rajoy to find a solution through dialogue.

Jean-Claude Juncker says it "respects" the desitions the Spanish government takes against the UDI of Catalonia.

Findland will vote next week whether it recognized the republic of Catalonia (implying it will last that long)

The ministry of external affairs publizished a video to reafirm that Catalonia is Spain (in english)
https://twitter.com/SpainMFA/status/923909040966643713/video/1

Scotland says that he "understands" and "respects" the desition of the Catalan executive and blames Spain for it due to their refusal to engage in dialogue.

The Euro is down in the markets most likely due to current events taking place in Spain

>>84317
Now they get arrested (soon I hope)

>>84322
>Could an independent Catalonia be Spains Commifornia?
They already kind of are our commiefornia.
>I assume Catalonians usually votes for leftists
They just vote for whatever party wants to scream independence and scare the government to give them more autonomy and gibs.
>when they no longer has a say in Spanish politics will Spain become a better place?
I am not sure about this one, but having a Venezuela/Muslim nation right next to us and in the middle of our connection to the res of Europe can't really be seen as an advantage.
>Also would Catalonia be a good place to send all immigrants to?
Temporarily maybe, but then they will become a focus of muslim immigration and it will be flooded by Muslims. Right next to us. And with no sea in the middle.
No thanks.

There has been nothing interesting from the reunion so far, will make another update in a few hours.

>>84326

Cant believe no one posted this yet, mandatory secessionist video.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LtD7aeLTkD8

Spain Anon, grab a gun and some friends and ride an armored vehicle to the catalonians border.

just heard in the news that the spanish central government has officially disbanded the catalonian senate.

More coming through

The king suspends his public meeting and appearances for the next week.

A report of the police says "The president of Catalonia, Carles Puigdemont, the vicepresident Oriol Junqueras, and at least 16 other people took leadership in the desition making in searching for a voting system for the celebration of the illegal referendum of the 1 of October for the Catalans on the outside, and they meet with computer technicians in the Palace of Pedralbes in Barcelona with this end

Sant Jaume full of people celebrating independence
https://twitter.com/alfcongostrina/status/923941901996363777/video/1

The prime minister of Estonia declares his support for the integrity and unity of Spain.

The minister council has ended.

Now, speech of the president after the meeting of the council.

>"We Spaniards live a sad day in which the nonsense has imposed to the law. The government has already taken the measures against an unacceptable kidnapping towards the Catalans and a theft of a part of the territory of all Spaniards"
>"We must reestablish the rule of law and disband the threats to our coexistence. We have agreed to propose to the Constitutional Court the nullity of what the parliament of Catalonia approved today.
He also announces the measures taken in the council of Ministers, approved in the Senate:
Cessation of the president of Catalonia, the vice president, the rest of the counselors, extinction of the office of the president and vice president, of the delegates of Catalonia in Brussels and Madrid, and the director of the autonomic police.

>"These are the necessary measures to return the democratic legitimacy and the rule of law to the self government. Today in Catalonia has been imposed the though of <<The worse, the better>>. The independence is sad and distressing, that's what the Catalans that are not independentist feel, and also the independentist that do not accept this fraud that is taking place over the social structure of Catalonia"
>"Is not about suspending the autonomic government, not of intervening it nor cutting it, but to return it to normal as soon as possible"
Then he announces the Council of Ministers has disbanded the Parliament of Catalonia and summons elections for the 21 of December.
>"The ballots, the real ones, are the ones that have control, and the ones that can restore the conciliation that Catalonia needs and the government doesn't want to delay this any longer. We never wanted to reach this situation. Is not about suspending the autonomy, but to restore the law"
He thanks the support of all those parties that stood by him.

Anti-independent protest forces the Catalan police to secure the headquarters of Catalonia's Radio
https://twitter.com/Gelopezfageda/status/923975997292273665/video/1

And I think that's pretty much it for today, don't think nothing much will happen today. We'll see how this all unfolds.

>>84329
That would be fucking amazing, specially with all the rapefugees there are in Catalonia. Real reconquista, commies and muddies edition.

The government decrees that the president of Catalonia must abandon its position when its cessation is officially published in the Official bulletin of State, else, he will be commiting a crime of usurpation of functions if he refuses to accept and bunkers himself in the Parliament

3 Wounded due to agressions from the anti-independence protesters. Two have been moved to a hospital.

The state bulletin where the measures was published yesterday at 3:40 in the morning, instead of 7:30 like is ussual.

The bulletin stated the following: No more Puigdemont, no more of Catalonia's government, close all their embassies, summon elections and move some of their competences from the counseling to the ministries.

Also apparently the president of Catalonia gave the order of giving up without a fight.

One of the ministries immediately (20 mins later of the bulletin) removed the chief of the Catalan police force, for which the police chief replied with a goodbye letter to his men after being removed from its position.

Seems like this is going to be it guys, it has been a wild ride, and a very retarded one that I rather not repeat.
Probably some more things happen in the day. The people might resist a little, but the police chief is already out, so don't expect an actual conflict out of this.

>>84415
Expected nothing less from Catalonia. They rolled over at the first sign of resistance. Now their government, economy and police is permanently fucked and they didnt even try. All for the sake of a bullshit victim narrative. Current year politics everyone.

>>84415
i just want you to say this is the best thread on catalonia out of all the chans, and I always come here to see what's really going on.

>mfw the first entity to recognize catalonian independence is 4chan

So who will gain independence next? My money is on flanders.

>>84415
>>84446

I too would like to thank you for the indepth local reporting in this thread, Spain Anon. Quality thread. This is as close to a gold standard for MLPOL threads as you can get. Thank you for your work!

>>84449
Wholeheartedly agree. Our Spain (>>84415) is truly best Spain.

>>84449
Totaaly, and compare it to "le happenin" sticky on 4cuck, ugh…
Speaking of quality threads, I am after my vacations so I will update /sg/ soon, maps including.

>>84456
Also, why my Hezz flag is gone again? Mods plz halp!

>>84456
Awesome.

>>84446
>>84449
>>84454
>>84456
Thank you! I honestly sometimes though nobody was reading the thread. I appreciate it.

Although reporting the news as they come probably is way outside 4chan's capabilities.

Also don't give up on this conflict just yet, because it seems the whole government giving up was just an early bluff.

The police of Catalonia says that they will still carry out his work normally, because guarantee the security of the people is their first priority.

Many opinions of different news outlets.

Jean-Claude Juncker has called for unity and stability to solve the Catalonia situation.
One of the members of the socialist in the Vasque region leaves her party for their desition to back the 155's application.

Protest in Madrid in defense of the unity of Spain (first video).

China joins the countries that do not recognize Catalonia.

Apparently the government of Catalonia, unlike the police chief, does not consider itself to be disbanded, and is planning to summon a meeting to discuss a few things, including the possibility of summoning "constituent" elections for December, according to some sources. (Note they are no longer receiving a salary from the Estate)

Declaration of Puigdemont today at 14:30

>"In a democratic society, is the parlament who choose or ceases the presidents"
>"The Spanish government has taken desitions against the will of the catalans"
>"Your reactions is that of a mature country. We must keep on preserving, without violence, and respecting the protest of the Catalans that do not agree with the mandate" (How many of these Catalans are is irrelevant apparently)
>"We will keep working to build a gree country, a more egalitarian society, more fraternity with all the people of the world, starting with the people of Spain, which we want to asociate with" (lmao?)

The Spanish government says nothing regarding his statement and says that "qualifying such conducts is the job of the judiciary"

The government did however, complained how TV3 reffered to him as the president, and send this complain to the direction of the public tv station. Remember that they were going to interviene in TV3 but it was dropped from the 155 at the last minute.

The vice president of the country is assumes the role of both the president and the vice president of Catalonia.

ANC and Òmnium (whose presidents are still in jail), has requested to the independentist to "not protrest" and instead "go to the teather, the cinema, or maybe to visit your grandparents", "save your energy"

Our minitry of education (that was against adding the education of Catalonia to the 155, saying it was no problem) has "pleasantly received" the comments of Puigdemont, and says he should run for the next elections.

The vice president of Catalonia also ask for effort and persevearance in twitter.
https://twitter.com/junqueras/status/924301159413829632

The second in command of the Catalan police has taken the role of the mayor of the police, and says the structure of command will remain intanct.

The government has started closing the structures of Catalonia, such as embassies and other seccesionist institutions.

A party of the Vasques will make a proposal next monday to recognize as legitimate the "cemocratic desition of the parliament that took place on Friday to declare the republic based upon the will of the citizens of Catalonia"

The ANC says that summoning elections in Catalonia by the Spanish government is a pantomime "impossible to execute, since they no longer control the territory"

And that's it, seems like everyone is just going on with whatever is on their heads ignoring what the other says.
Will be violence after all.

Also, I forgot, they made a new propaganda video.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6caSNvH3vUQ

>>84465
I see your posts and appreciate them, even if I cannot intelligently comment

>>84465
to be honest it did seem as if the situation was defused far too easily, and I suspected this was not over by a long shot.

Besides, the cat flag is still on pol, and you know what they say about pol and being right…

I just saw, they want to institute a national crypocurrency instead of a central bank. I'm liking catalonia more and more.

>>84529
4chan opinion is also swinging toward independence. last pol was 50/50

>>84465
>>84468
This. I have nothing to contribute, but devour your content with rapt attention. You're doing God's work spainanon.

>>84531
>>84529

Catalonia wont even stand up for themselves to become independent. Whatever little support they get will go to waste, they dont even stand together in their own midst on this issue. I doubt a random poll on a website will change that. Spain has shown that they are willing and backed to do whatever necessary to keep the country together. And most important you know how much the jews hate people who try to make their own currencies. that caused a world war or 2…

>>84529
I think I support Catalonia now.

>>84468
>>84532
Thanks you fuys, sometimes it was hard to tell, but I appreciate knowing there are anons there reading my content.

And without further ado, the news of the day so far.

China and Brazil sums themselves to the nations that do not recognize Catalonia's independence.
North Korea prefers to stay away from it saying is a problem of Spain and Spain alone to solve, and Israel is dubious on what to do.

The Catalan civil society has summoned a protest for 12am in Barcelona today to support the application of 155 and reject the "assasult against democracy" that was the declaration of independence.
It is taking place right now, you can watch it live here:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DwjsO-pLBss&feature=youtu.be
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H-roogw8aI8

The government says that the declarations of the Catalan president yesterday was not live, but a recording make in Girona that same morning. So they probably control of the Palace.
Also, that speech was not illegal since he did not referred to himself as the president of Catalonia, so he wasn't usurping said position.

The ex-vise president of Catalonia says that in the following days they will have to take decisions that will be "hard to understand", and says to "not renounce the urns to validate the republic".

In Belgium, one of the parties has said that Puigdemont has the option of requesting political asylum in Belgium.

Seems like the government is actually supporting this protest, unlike the one from the 8 of October, when he was against.

And apparently the Catalan police tried to burn some "sensible" documents on Thursday, but was stopped by the National Police.

The "official" numbers appear to be 1.100.000 according to the organizers, how much the "official" numbers are to be trusted I can't say.

It apparently displaced the protest summoned by another organization called "Hablamos" (We talk) that calls for dialogue between the two governments because "the events have overflowed all calling for dialogue".

>>84529
But of course, whatever bonds come out of their bank would be consider complete junk. And since is not recognized there's no way they can get other governments to recognize their currency as valuable. Best option is to use an already established currency, and bitcoin or other crypto currencies are already functional, require little maintenance, and will not get them in trouble towards other nations. That is their only viable option right now.

And so far the only international body that has recognized their independence is 4chan. Make of that what you will.

Also, remember that there was a referendum not too long ago in Italy there was also a referendum for independence. What you need to realize is that these people are not anti EU, just like Scotland, and I'm sure there are more regions in Europe with a similar view. Imagine if all these were to go leave their country and consequently the EU. Now imagine that the EU, to "ensure the safety, stability and way of live of its citizens", decides to change their own admission rules and it no longer requires an unanimous vote. Now imagine all these countries rejoining the EU because they don't really hate the EU, and they no longer require permission from the rest of countries to do so.

What you would be left with is a divide et impera, but from the EU to its member regions, making them completely irrelevant and dependent on one another.
I want Spain out of the EU, but I can't do that is the nation fractures in a million pieces and we don't have the strength to pull ourselves out like the English.

Also, just found a pro independence song from a Catalan guy about the independence.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=F4T15FjNJsg
This was from a month before the referendum started, but though it would be nice to share it regardless.

>>84575
You should consider posting these to the other chan too. I think they'll be interested in your info too.

>>84576
And removing the exclusivity of superior Nazi horse empire?
No thanks, mlpol.net will get all my content, I ain't going back to the other chans. You also post the best content only here, if the other chans wants some of it, they will have to swallow the horse pill, and save the horse pussy files to their hard drive.

>>84577
Well, I don't think I can argue these dubs really well.
>not going back to the other imageboards
Not even the infinitychan(8ch)? What a pity. But I guess you're probably not ready for it, because that place requires intense lurking before posting.

>>84578

I come from 8chan actually, full/pol/ as they call it there.
I did made a few post back in the day when I visited that website everyday. I remember that my first sticky was about a document that said that they got rid of Gadafi because he was planning to create a gold backed currency.

I do still lurk there from time to time, but I want this place to grow.
So while I will still lurk other boards, I will only post on this one (it also helps that I'm sure this one doesn't data mine).

Also, how can I post horse while talking about politics in other chans?

>>84581
>Also, how can I post horse while talking about politics in other chans?
One way of doing that is just not giving a fuck and going full trigger on anons and post it as is, without changing the pics at all. The other one, is making it subtle, like only posting they cutiemark or something else that's related to the character. Or you can try using the humanized versions. That last option actually works, because I saw some anon actually posting Sunset Shimmer and actually getting away with it. I don't know about EQG versions, tho, because I didn't see them posted. Maybe these ones are acceptable too.

China congratulates Spain's "efforts" to keep the "integrity of its territory".
Urban guard gives its own official numbers of the participants of the protest, 300k people.
Meanwhile, the delegation of the government in Catalonia estimates it was a million.

The police of Catalonia gives orders for the portraits of the president to be removed from the police stations. That also includes any member that was removed from the government.

CUP (pro independence party) has showed their support for the Catalan government, now ex Catalan government. They also have not discarted the possibility of taking part in the elections of December.
The spokesman of Spain, Esteban Gonzáles, has said today that the migration secretary of Belgium has gone against the principles and collaboration of the EU after he said Puigdemont can request political asylum in Belgium.
>"Without any reason nor competences for it, and getting ahead of any event, Francken judges the possibility of a trial against Puigdemont making dare accusations towards the judicial system of Spain, the labor of Spanish judges, and the Estate of Spain"

The prosecution has been preparing a complaint for a crime of rebellion (30 years in jail maximum) against Puigdemont were he to declare independence, but now that the measure has been approved by the parliament, it's studying amplifying this sentence to "everyone" that allowed the alleged crime to take place.

Now, after digging through some rumors, watching current events, some details of the declaration the other day and some words shared with an inside source, I would like to share some conclusions.

The document they voted on was not a "we declare independence type", but more like "we will compromise on taking the measures necessary to make the Law of Transience approved to make the referendum legally binding and make the republic a reality" type.
This is nice and all, but it has little juridical value, since declaring their intentions, unlike declaring independence, is not a crime.
This summed up to the "there will be strange decisions in the coming days" from the vice president, the willingness to go to elections that the Spanish government summoned from all the parties that voted yes, and some vague statements from the politicians makes me believe they are doing their hardest to diminish the juridical weight of all their decisions as to lower their future sentence (or maybe they got amnesty trough a backdoor deal), while at the same time making it look like they are on the side of the independentist.
It wouldn't surprise that everything they have said up until now is written not by the usual speech writers, but by an army of lawyers.
And the government won't go very hard for them as to calm the situation a little bit.

And for those who think our government is not capable of doing this after all the travesty we just went trough, then you should know that our government is very slightly slightly better than the political class of Catalonia, but not by much.
And they might change their speech, going back to non independent nationalism. The people in the streets might not know, but the politicians know very well the independence route is dead. After all this storm has gone by, and people look behind them, they will see all the wretches and debris of what use to be their home. Their economy in ruins, the society completely fractured, probably even more than America right now.
I would not be surprise if we see actual violence at last, but among the Catalans.

The ex government of Catalonia will, if faced against a judge they will say that they NEVER declared independence. This is what everything has been building up towards, some scumbag politicians escaping jail time.

Some of the parties want to run back for elections because (of course) they need all their friends and family to go back to their wonderful six figure salary jobs where they don't do anything since they are now in the streets and they need to win again to put them back in.

The ones that would be really screwed in this are the Catalan police, that will say they were obeying orders, but they will realize they have been backstabbed when they lose their job.

TL;DR: They may want everything to go back to the rule of law in exchange for the politicians being let free.

What would I be worried of in this scenario is for the independentist to go ape shit when they realize they destroyed the Catalan society and economy for naught. And it will be something to behold when after all the treason and insults everyone goes out the door free without a care in the world.

Take it with a grain of salt, as trying to get ahead of the future is a nasty business, but this is what I think it might hold.

>>84584
Yeah, I could, even if those methods don't work I can probably come out with a way of inserting ponies trough the backdoor in the post of other chans, but is just not the same.
Why instead of making people of this website to others why not make people from outside come in here? I'm as protective in borders as any of you, but we could actually use some new blood on this website.
And no, unlike in the real world, just having more kids is not a solution this time.

just heard in the news that the Prankmaster fled to Belgium to escape his looming prison sentence.

>>84710
i just saw that too, so I can immediately to this thread. THE HEAT GOT A LITTLE TOO HOT TO HANDLE

>>84714

Catalonia - cucked and fucked

>>84710
Indeed, but he has yet to receive official asylum yet. That might not be the wisest idea on the diplomatic side, but is not like Spain is one of the most relevant countries in the world at this moment.

This has been pretty much this Monday:

Today, the day starts with more than 200k public workers going back to work, now under the rule of the Spanish government.

According to a poll from a mainstream newspaper, 33,5% are in favor of independence, whereas a 58,3% are in favor of keeping the status quo.
Except for 4 events, two sports ones, 1 civil one and one of education, the entire schedule for the Catalan government is empty today.

The secretary of the Catalan Government leaves this morning his office among cheers:
>"I went to my office to do the job that was requested by the people of Catalonia. I will keep with my job"
He went up a taxi that was waiting for him at the door since he no longer has a government car and personal driver, plus his escort guard. He was asked if he was replaced and he responded with a smile.

Carme Forcadel, politician of Catalonia, uncalled the reunion of the Parliament for tomorrow, as the Catalan chamber no longer exist.

The National Committee of Catalonia had a meeting today, but Puigdemont didn't show up.
The cameras unsuccessfully look for Puigdemont as he hasn't showed up today.
The vote trough mail is already available for request for the elections of December this year.
The Council of Public Diplomacy of Catalonia has opened its door and its working with the "maximum normality possible" due to, as the prime minister of Spain said, this organism no longer exist.
The delegate of Catalonia in Brussels, Amadue Altafaj, assumes the 155 and resigns from its functions.
In a press release, the prosecution states the following:

Carles Puigdemont and the rest of the Catalan Government: complaint for rebellion, sedition, and embezzlement of public funds. The bail is 6,2m€

Puigdemont is right now in Brussels, with some politicians of the Open Vlaamse Liberalen en Democraten party.
A little suspicious that it comes right after Theo Francken said he could "request2 political asylum in Belgium.

A human chain surrounds the headquarters of the Catalan government in Girona as a protest against the 155 and in favor of a republic of Catalonia.
https://twitter.com/CUPGirona/status/924971142863052801/video/1

More parties from both sides announce their candidacy for the elections of December.

When asked about the presence of Puigdemont in Belgium, the prime minister, Charles Michel responds with "No comments"
https://twitter.com/bdemonty/status/924988892931084288

According to TV6, both the president and 5 ex counselors are to request political asylum in Belgium during the next few hours.

The Constitutional Tribunal will suspend the Declaration of Independence on Tuesday.

CUP will propose this Thursady to the town hall to recognize the proclamation of the Catalan Republic and put "all tools and means their disposal to stop the intervention of the Catalan institutions and make the republic effective"

The ex president of Catalonia will meet with politicians and lawyers in Brussels.
The Belgium deputy for refugees and stateless states that, for another European citizen to request asylum, there must be clear signs of persecution, or that he runs a risk in their country of origin.
>"There must be signs of persecution but even with that, there must a an impossibility to obtain protection from their own country."

One little detail about asylum from European country to others European countries, Protocol nº 24:
http://eur-lex.europa.eu/legal-content/EN/TXT/?uri=CELEX%3A12008E%2FPRO%2F24

Protocol nº 24 of the European Union restricts the capacity of other member states to grant asylum for another member states, giving only the capacity to do so if said person is being persecuted for their ethnicity, race, religion, or political system with the home country's Estate or judicial system refusing to do anything about it.

Tomorrow the ex president of Catalonia will give a press release from Brussels.

Ucraine and Spain show their mutual support and solidarity towards their secessionist movements that threatens their territorial integrity.

The ex prime minister of Belgium, urges the actual prime minister to
>"Give explanations towards the likely visit of the delegation of Puigdemont to Brussels".
>"It is threatening the credibility of Brussels"

The President of Citizens accuses the head independentist to try to protect their patrimony and run off to foreign states while at the same time telling the citizens and the public workers to disobey they law.

The Belgium Nationalist that are part of the coalition government of Belgium have stood away this Monday from the trip of ex president Puigdemont to Brussels saying they do not respond to an invitation of the party, as claim by Joachim Pohlmann, spokesman of Europa Press.
Also according to the ministry of interior the ministry Jan Jambon from the N-VA "is not aware" of this visit, so he has had "no contact" with Puigdemont in the last few days.

The prosecution accuses the Catalan police of being the armed forces against the defense of the Constitution. They assure that the people responsible for the Catalan government wanted to use the police as an armed force against those who wanted to defend the constitution. And it reiterates their function is to keep the public order and they respond to the president of Spain above all.

Tomorrow is the scheduled time for the speech of the Catalan president in Brussels. Will they make a political enemy of Spain? Make your bets.

Yesterday Puigdemont went to Brussels with a number of its Councillors.
The webpage of the Catalan government has gone offline.

Many parties of Catalonia are discussing how they're going to face the elections of December this year. While at the same time also denouncing the application of the 155, and some of them defending the independence.

The vice president of Belgium says:
>"I don't want to prejudge anything, but when you call for independence, you better stay with your people"

The Civil Guard entered the control room of at least 6 Catalan police station to gain access to their communications back from the first of October during the referendum.

One of the parties, PDeCAT (Democratic European Catalan party) stated their candidacy for December and said the following:

>"We always said we did not have the legitimacy to declare independence"
>"We've had companions that were surprisingly naive for their age"
>"I shared my vote in pubic and private during the votes of the 6 and 7 of September, and I was always against it"
>"It was a surprise for me and my party for Puigdemont and part of its government to go to Brussels"

Many Catalan government officials repeat the statement from the vice president of Belgium to stay with their people.

The supreme Justice tribunal accepts the complain for Rebellion against the Parliament of Catalonia.

Now here we go with the speech of ex president Puigdemont from Brussels.
He shows up with 7 of ex Councillors.
He then says good evening in Spanish, English, French and Catalan. Then he goes switching between languages, for some reason:

Catalan
>"After the declaration of independence and after knowing that the government of Spain had planned an offensive against this government I preside…" (this is usurpation of functions right here) "…and in front of a complain with dozens of years in prison. All of this has forced us to adopt a working plan in which we prioritize dodging the violence because peace and dialogue have always been the priority"
>"And Peace and dialogue have always been the priority of the government of Catalonia"
>"We suspended the declaration of independence in hopes for dialogue. Both the PP (main right wing party and current governing party" and PSOE (main left wing party) have a problem that they do not know how to deal with politically, but with repression"
Denounces the events of the day of the referendum yet again.

Spanish
>"The republic cannot be built out of violence. My government says that it wouldn't put the public workers in front of a difficult situation. And that's what we've done"
>"The complaints from the prosecution are not sustainable. They ask us 30 years in preventive prison, abusive fees… things we have already seen from the last referendum. That's why the republic of Catalonia will work in 4 areas"
>"1.- A part of the Catalan government has moved to Brussels to 'denounce the politicization of the justice system' and the 'dare democratic deficit' that is currently in Spain."
>"They chase ideas, not crimes"
>"2.- The other part, with the Vice president at the head, is still in Catalonia, taking part on political task as legitimate members."
>"We have not abandon our functions. We are still working despite the limitations. We will defend the idea that is demand from the Estate is a political charge"
>"We will not escape the actions of the justice system" (the irony)
>"3.- The elections are a democratic challenge. In the ballots is where problems are solved, and not in political imprisonment."
>"The results of the elections will be accepted by the independent"
>"Would you do the same, Rajoy? (Prime minister of Spain)"
>"I want a compromise with no ambiguities"
>"4.- The cause for Catalonia is based upon the reception and not in violence. To the people of Catalonia I ask that you prepare for a long walk. We have in front of us a Estate that only understands the use of force"
He ask for recognition to all his Councillors, and for their "children and family", and that they are doing a "great effort" and they deserve "support" and "warm".
Then he demands that the people fight in December in the ballots against the parties that oppose independence.
>"Democracy will be the base of our victory. When we were able to fight democratically we have always won. This is a suggestion for the Estate of Spain. Whenever there are votes, we'll meet there.
>"I'm not here to request political asylum. I'm here because is the capital of Europe. I'm here to be able to act with freedom and security. We came here looking for guarantees that the Estate does not give us in Catalonia"
He comments how he doesn't have a return date for Catalonia as of yet
>"More than a wish for justice, there's a wish for revenge"
>"We don't want to elude our duties before the justice, but we offer no guarantees."
>"I decided to come to Brussels, the capital of Europe, because this is an European problem, and to make it more evident that this is a threat. Neither me nor the Councillors have protection since the Spanish police controls the Catalan one"
>"That is the reason we decided to act as we have. Had we stayed there we would have faced a violent reaction from the Estate"
>"We must keep working as a legitimate government"
He also insist he won't go back to Catalonia until he has guaranteed his security and the one from his Councillors.

The first minister of Belgium says Puigdemont will receive the same rights as any other European citizen, nothing more, nothing less
https://twitter.com/CharlesMichel/status/925360119893909505

Now, for starters, you should know that this movement by Puigdemont has taken by surprise pretty much everyone inside the government of Catalonia, even the inside source I was using. So he either prepared this with a lot of secrecy beforehand, or he just jumped towards the first ray of hope they found. My money is on the later.
Whatever the ex heads of the independence say in public, know that they consider him a despicable coward that abandoned the sinking ship he stranded himself like a rat and left him without anything.
The biggest debate among the independentist now is how to keep the people illusionated and cheering after this travesty and its consecuences. They fear the people will stop believing the lies that come out of their mouths. And also a possible violent reaction from the people that they are supposed to represent.
And for anybody still wondering, no, they have no plan. In fact, they are now in "every man for himself" mode. I wouldn't be surprised if they start attacking each other soon enough. Thinks are very tense right now, and many feel they have been betrayed.