/mlpol/ - My Little Politics

And so brings us to the current and most-recent post
This story is WILD because it does two things really well. It completely upends the ponies. Its the kind of story that's hard to read BECAUSE (aside the ponies) it's believable, and its written so well into the MLP story that it becomes eerily hard to not see as possible.
Anon has some interesting theories about it, better if he explains it. But without spoiling, the question arises "Who or what is talking to Pinkie?" with a teaser side-questiom, is it talking to other ponies now?

One of the most compelling aspects to the story is the degree to which the author convincingly depicts Pinkie's pathology. Whether the 'voice' is that of madness, or something else entirely, Pinkie herself is depicted in a way that is believable both in context and with the overarching story of the show.
Perhaps anon's experience was different, but for the duration of the story there was no point where my brain said "wait, hold on, that doesn't make sense", which is a really unsettling feeling when reading a story like this; Again, kudos to the author.
Every bit of dialogue is consistent with and in character, and if you didn't lose it at Dashmom then I question your empathy. Where's tjis asshole's patreon?? *storms off*

https://ko-fi.com/M4M7XOPKI
Artist's Ko-fi,....

>>380062
Chapter 4 will be the last one right ? I haven't look much into this comic yet. Just seen a few pages on xitter. Is it worth it ?

>>380086
No idea of anything EXCEPT a sneak preview of one page of the next chapter, no spoilers

>>380088
No worries. I haven't read any of it. Not even the 1st chapter.
That's why I'm asking. Is it worth a read ?

>>380080
Between Ponk waking up and Ponk being in chains, there are these pages.

>>380091
I really like it so I would say that that's a yes. ^^
Give it a try if you wish: https://www.deviantart.com/piesinful/gallery/94761042/chapter-1-unlucky-day

>>380092
Except for the one I included that you already included...

>>380091
I WOULD say absolutely, but make no mistake, it is WILD, and you can't unsee it

>>380080
Also, thanks for putting into the effort of uploading the chapter like this. Imo, this makes commenting on it more easier and puts it one more display. But maybe it's not necessarily better either, idk.

>>380095
Yw, sorry I forgot that you posted in the spooky stories thread or Id have just posted there. Anon from the board gave me a heads up that it had been posted, and we got into a lengthy discussion about what we noticed, and theories about what is happening and the possible explanations. He's got a banger theory so I dont wanna steal his thunder

>>380092
>>380094
Thanks, I will probably check it out in my free time. I hope for lots of good gore and action.
>you can't unsee it
GOOD

>>380083
Ooh, a palindrome! But to reiterate, I shot the artist $20 and I'm the #4 contributor for the month. If y'all that got some scratch, give it up for ya boy. The cupcakes song video is STILL the theme for /mlp/ 4cc team, and that only scratches the surface of how much of an impact this one story had on the fandom.

I was gonna "no spoilers" the shit, and absolutely go give them monies, but they put the 'sneak preview' image in their ko fi background so don't cry to me on spoilers

RD wakes up next chapter

Okay, because anon presumably wants to see how well his argument is articulated by another:

Its this one here. >>380080
Bottom left.
Agony.

Discord was a primordial force wasnt he?

And, Agony APPEARS to be a subject worth an entire book in pony-ology.

>>380105
I honestly, feel like waking up to balloons after being almost murdered by Pinkie Pie isn't the greatest idea...

>>380069

So, how did our little batch of cupcakes turn out? Sticking to the methodology I outlined above, let's go down the list:

1. What idea was the author attempting to convey with this piece?
This story falls into a curious sub-category of writing specific to fanfiction: the alternate headcanon. Basically, the idea is not so much to tell a story for its own sake, but to explore some alternate interpretation of the canon that the author had thought up. This can either pertain to characters or to events in the overall story. In this case, the author is attempting an alternate characterization of Pinkie Pie: instead of the cute, sweet, exuberant party pony the show's fans would know and love, we have this cold-blooded cannibalistic psychopath.

However, the author provides an interesting twist. He doesn't alter Pinkie Pie's basic personality or mannerisms, and as far as I can tell he retains all of the canon events in the show up to that point. All the author is attempting to do is to show us some stuff that is happening behind the scenes, that completely changes the audience's perception of the character.

Before we get too far into this review, I would like to clarify one main point: Cupcakes is not great literature by any stretch of the imagination, and I will not try to argue that it is. However, I mentioned above that even if a story is not "good" in the technical sense, it's still possible for a "bad" story to strike at something vital that moves the reader, and even to have literary value on some level. It's similar to how someone who doesn't play the guitar could still pick one up and figure out a simple melody, and even turn it into a song if they felt like spending the time. A serious musician would have an easier time developing the tune into a real composition, and would probably do a better job, but simply thinking up the melody doesn't require serious talent or even serious intent. That is what I think is going on with Cupcakes, and that is the point I will try to make.

Case in point. The author of this story, at least according to the information I have, is some anonymous online autist calling himself "Sgt Sprinkles;" that alone should be a clue that he probably wasn't all that serious about what he was doing. We can probably assume that, when he sat down to write this, the good Sergeant was not planning to write a serious short story, or even a serious fanfic. He probably just had this idea in the shower or something, and felt like writing it down and shitposting it on /co/ or wherever this story originally appeared. However, there is still a clear theme to this story. The observant follower of my blatherings on this site will likely recall that a theme is one of those serious literary things that serious stories need to have.

In Cupcakes, the theme revolves around trust and uncertainty. People and/or ponies are multifaceted individuals, and everyone has weird, dark little secrets that they don't tell anyone about. Most of the time these secrets are relatively harmless: maybe you cheat on your taxes or shoplift occasionally, or maybe you're the administrator of a fimfiction backup repository who virtue-signals about foalcon, but whacks it furiously to Scootaloo porn when nobody's looking :DDDDDDD. Occasionally, though, you'll run into someone who is hiding something really dark.

The most unsettling aspect of this is that you have no way of knowing who that person may be. It may even be someone close to you, someone you trust implicitly; that's what makes it frightening. It's not possible for one person to ever truly know another, so even in high-trust relationships there is always an element of uncertainty: your spouse of 40 years might turn out to be a serial killer, or your best friend might be a furry. You don't know, and there's no way to know. You might even be better off not knowing.

All you can really do is trust people and/or ponies and hope for the best, knowing all the while that if you trust the wrong person or the wrong horse, you might end up baked into a cupcake or worse, end up getting yiffed. It's a constant, lurking fear in all human and/or equine relationships, and that's what makes it a universally appealing theme, even in something as niche as an online creepypasta about colorful horses.

So, to summarize. The question we are trying to answer is: "what is this story attempting to convey?" In my view, the author is attempting to accomplish two main goals here, one very specific and niche in its appeal, and one very general and universal in its appeal. The first goal is to present an alternate explanation for Pinkie Pie's behavior in MLP:FiM. This goal is very niche, and will only be of interest to a very limited audience, specifically bronies. The second goal, however, is broader: to provoke the reader to think about trust and friendship in a darker context. How well do you really know your friends? This second goal hints at something universal and human. Thus, if properly developed, a story with this theme could appeal to anyone, even people who have no interest in MLP:FiM, and might even have...gasp...literary value.

To be continued.

>>380105
RD in pic took off her bandages to check if her wings were truly gone.
>>380121
>or your best friend might be a furry. You don't know
^^

>>380121
Playing back into the idea of Agony as a tangible driving force, another prevailing theme is the stages of grief: denial, anger, bartering, and acceptance. First through RD, finding herself in this upside-down situation that's so unbelievably horrible that it seems unthinkable until it proves real, and then likewise through the Mane 6 and others. It's possible that theres other explanations, but I'm particularly excited at the idea of a non-canon villain/adversary that is conceptually PERFECT for existing but unestablished pony canon. A villain who would/could/should have been in the show/series.

Another point for the comic versus the oroginal short story is that - just as with memes on 4chan - it has been refined and polished. Cupcakes was seemingly intended to be a standalone one-off story. It wasn't until the overwhelimg support and celebration by the fandom that it has become the iconic meme it has. The author of the comic doesn't appear to be the same as the short story, so this is more of a fan spinoff/completion of an existing fanfiction.

>Pinkie makes her dress look good despite it's horrific origin.
>RD the solve survivor that clawed herself out from the bowels of hell.
>Twilight. Is it years later? Is pinkie truly there?
He is good at coming up with these striking images.

>>380149
Oh, I suspect Dashie's hell has only just begun, and if anon's theory about Agony is correct, then the next target is Scootaloo

The thing about the Agony theory: The main drive one assumes of such an entity would be - similar to Discord - to spread as much Agony to as many ponies as possible. One can assume Rainbow Dash to already be 'compromised', and her closenes to Scootaloo would make a similar psychotic betrayal the next 'closest' victim, who would then have access to the CMC

>>380149
>pic 1
Another interesting theory recently shared:
The dress image is said to depict "All of pinkie's victims in ponyville".
But the author is cheeky, and it doesnt rule out the possibility that Pinkie's,... proclivities go back further. Possibly even to when Pinkie got her CM.
Yes, it's been posited that Pinkie's CM party was in fact, the massacre of the Pie family.
Im in author's discord, so will give hints and applicable tidbits and doodads.

>>380156
>Pinkie's CM party was in fact, the massacre of the Pie family.
Hehe, I figured that was the case first yesterday. The page right before Twilight and Pinkie are shown in the same panel in the comic for the first time, is filled with eyes. It occurred to me then that was probably a flashback induced by hearing Twilight say her name with such fear. Neat to have it confirmed, kinda of.

>>380077
The yellow flowers creep into the room through the window in RD's room.

>>380161
>>380077
OH SNAP
>pic 1
Rarity brings flowers, and gives brushies. D'awwww
>pic 2
Behind Scoots are the flowers. But on the right are some,

Late to it, but thread theme:
https://youtu.be/GlpjQErcR_8?si=61NZq5WC4BmxLEPh

>>380182
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_AbtCTbSWTk
Did you see this in the last thread? It's a classic. I was so cultured back then. ^^

>>380189
>did you see this?
Yes I did! I thought it was shit then and think its shit now! ^_^
Anon is welcome to their own reception, but if I wanted back-gargling pony content I'd,....

>>380190
>I thought it was shit then and think its shit now!
Of course, and that's completely fine but it does make me curious. I really like it so I can't help but wonder why someone else wouldn't like it too.

Could you elaborate your feelings? No need to hold back either, I won't judge you and I will try not to let your opinions change my of you.

There are people who will insist that the only aspect of art that is worth critiquing is the objective side but I think the subjective side is worth thinking about too. Une exemple: a woman wouldn't be aroused by another naked woman unlike a man, which makes it interesting to pick apart what makes it so?

>>380192
Its a personal thing, I cant stand the Youtuber's voice

>>380193
^^
Well, I guess that would be a problem. ^^

How is the author of this comic's discord. Any fun? Any sekrets?

>>380194
Not super exciting, its a discord. Theres a small section devoted to theories and predictions, and a whole lot of,... unrelated.

>>380195
I see. ^^

This is the image that I think is about Pinkie's past when she killed her family.

Okay, this is going to take me a second, and its gonna be a pain in the ass. The reason is, these are the artist-direct images which actual artfsgs tell me is better
So, in the same sense that Brie is dissecting a torpedo (of course Im going there Xp) im gonna post the 'best'(?) version of up in here. It wont be quick, the site gets quite mad when I try to post quickly, so I'll be at it for a minute

6-10

No one understands flutterbutter ;_;

And now, for anyone wondering "what in the everloving fuck is 'anon' doing this time?", heres the answer (aside from the hq archive now)
Next chapter cover art

>>380286
>Sugars & Spices
It's kinda funny how this reminds me of fan-pieces of all kinds from that era:
"Now a rainbow's tale isn't quite as nice
As the story we knew of sugar and spice"
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AD3g9XnAB48

>>380290
Appreciating that its not a huge mental leap, I see you're thinking along similar lines Dash has wings in those oics Xp

>>380286
Also, either you missed uploading a page or he didn't make an improvement on it. But the completely blue page with a bunch of eyes before the confrontation between Ponk, Twi, and AJ is not there.

>>380292
Correct. The pinkie eyeball image - while seeming to be by the author - is not part of the official comic canon "thread"
Theres alot of artist/fan art, I'll compile some

Heres some

New chapter launch, pages 1-4
All credit for SinfulPie if I have neglected to mention by name. Easy to find on any booru, show some love

Current theories:
Thats a Derpy in that pie
Thats a Babs in that pie

Theres a number of possibilities, based on undetermined variables.

We know this all takes place pre season 4 cuz unicorn twilight. We know the original story was published mid season 2. At this point in the story, Babs and fam SHOULD be well established in Manehattan, as she doesnt appear until later.
We also know that Pinkie isnt just a psychopath, but an 'artisan'. Its easy to fit Gilda into the mix for "offenses", but Pinkie seems to want trophies, specifically Cutie Marks.

We also know from the following pics that Derpy, Blossomforth (correlatable to the frosting and aprinkle pattern of Dashie's cupcake?) and yes Babs are dead by "present day", as pic 3 is Bab's scalp on a seeming ponnequin head shutup, that was clever as shit, when Luna burst into the basement

>>380367
>>380368
>>380369
>>380370
Well, to me there's only one way it can go from a dramatic standpoint. The letter is gonna tell AJ that Babs has gone missing and then she will eat the pie that is Babs. This is the most dramatic outcome which I feel means it what will happen.

It's almost like a law in writing, imo. Not that its something wrong with doing what has most payoff that's what I'd do as well but I can not not see it.

The pie and the letter both have this ominous red around it. ^^

>>380378
Its probable. I was fixating on Derpy cuz the "wall trophy" pic, but with all the foreshadowing and easter eggs the author has displayed,... yeah thats prolly babs

Found this, https://www.fimfiction.net/story/14590/the-cupcake-chronicles
I skimmed it. I don't think sinful pie read this but there are some parallels. Even if he did he certainly added more to it or focused on another path.

Nu and fresh
Like, minutes old

(Okay, I told author I wouldnt post, but Im pretty sure she doesnt know Im here, so Im gonna risk it)

>>380495
The animation progresses. Not gonna post that until it's complete, but its coming along well.
My predictions and analysis has probably proven irritatingly accurate as far as what the scope of the story is, and especially wrt decoding Pinkie's dark triad malevolence, and author has stopped responding to my theory posts. As such, I can confirm without confirmation that the animation is a sequence representing the nightmare that Dash is trying to wake up from, concluding with seemingly Pinkie going to devour her and she wakes in the hospital, later confirmed by a teaser shot of dash's eyes open, in the comic detail style versus the animation (comic has much finer detsils, naturally).

>>380062
So far, the comic format is carrying the 'story'.

>>380604
I should say so, and I know a thing or two about abnormal psychology

>>380606
Now that I think about it, this development about the 'voice' speaking to Pinkie is quite similar to a non-pony comic I've read. It is a spoiler to mention in which comic it happens tho: Jhonny the homicidal maniac
However, the later had a greater focus on the main character and no so much in the situation around it, it's victims nor the reaction of said victims. It is a much more lighthearted work, but I would lie if I claimed it did not leave me with a stick up my throat by the end.

Yet I can't help but feel that the only reason this comic calls the eye is that I already care about the little horses. Would I keep reading this story if the characters were replaced by random non-pony Ocs? It is hard to say.

Eh, I should probably not put pony fanfiction into the same standards as acclaimed works from random people, but I really believe that pony fanfiction can be much more than just entry-level shenanigans.
Maybe I'm just insane, that is always a possibility.

>>380619
>Would I keep reading this story if the characters were replaced by random non-pony Ocs
An unquivcoable no. Freely admitted, the story is meh if you're not vested in g4 mlp. Its a psycho-horror drama worthy of Tomoé or Tales from the crypt, except ponies, which is worse cuz ponies.
This story is raw as,... hell, theres no way I'm subjecting my mental clusterfuck if they were being silly

<ye faggit
Yeah, shutup
Lasting psychological trauma has been unintentionally teased (sorry if ur watching, Op) asa theme

>>380621
>Lasting psychological trauma has been unintentionally teased
I don't know. The author is quite theatrical in his portrayal of the events; the pacing is snappy, the panels colorful, the drama action-oriented and fast... Even the shocking moments focus on moving the plot forward rather than exploring more nuanced aspects of the character's minds.
Pinkie giving RD a hug was a sweet moment of contrast, however it was executed so shallowly that I can not see it as anything but "This happened in the fic so I must add it to the comic." This itself is a key moment that differentiates a work exploring complicated aspects of the mind, and a work...well, doing whatever this is doing.

Something as simple as a stream of tears emanating from pinkie's eyes leaving her confused just to brush them off a panel later would be enough to tug this into an exploration of deeper psychological problems. Believe it or not, the body reacts on it's own to certain events, unless you are a complete psychopath and your every interaction has always been a facade, your body will react on it's own if you're about to murder your best friend, because deep inside something within your brain is recording and processing the gravity of your every action.

Maybe I'm just getting old and jaded, but I don't think this author is going to properly explore themes of trauma and it's devastating long-term effects in this work, that would go against the tone and pacing he has set-up at the start of the story. You cannot add salt midway to a brownies recipe and hope to get bread.

The questionnaire with pinkie reveals much about this, the way she acts all in the first page of the interrogation scene shows not a spark of tension within her, even though she has been caught and for all she knows, her whole life is over by now. I understand she is probably 'insane' in this work, and thus nonsensical, but if you have ever seen the interrogation of an insane person, you can quickly note that they too feel tension, even if they do not understand the gravity of their actions. There is something in that small, dim-lit room that evokes a sense of unrest, especially after getting caught.

Pinkie's actions in this scene hints at one of two things>
Either 'jail' or death penalty means nothing to her, hinting that she has a way to escape or influence the external world even after her imprisonment/passing, or
She is a dimwit that cannot mentally grasp the gravity of her acts.

For both cases I can see this story heading into yet another forgettable tale.
If pinkie escapes or has a way to influence the external world, then this is no different than your run-out-the-mill shonen.
If pinkie is a dimwit, she will just get executed or jailed.

In both cases, the story will orbit around small episodes of sad RD 'struggling with trauma' (the way it is portrayed in TV because I just doubt the writer has any field experience in devastating psychological trauma) and some episodes where Twilight, Celestia and Luna bonk their heads and go 'noo how can it be, pinkie evil!!! we need X to defeat this evul!!! It's hekking nightmare moon all over again!”.
If this happens, the whole thing will head for a bittersweet ending where Dash will never be the same, Pinkie will never be the same but at last they are all friends again-- Flash, polaroid photo of the 6 of them rolls out, play “Last train home” (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oG7jKUHsLfY)

Or maybe pinkie dies and the story keeps going exactly the same as I described but in the end the group is all sad or separated, or whatever, but I highly doubt the author is going for this. I wonder if he or she has a plan in mind or if this is just a seat-of-the-pants project.

Eh, whatever, sorry. I shouldn't be judging this little comic so harshy, people are enjoying it and that's what counts in the end. I just get a visceral reaction any time someone recommends me a 'great work' and I later find out that my hopes were way too high for said great work.

>>380630
Not author, but as a stan I think they're female
>I just get a visceral reaction any time someone recommends me a 'great work' and I later find out that my hopes were way too high for said great work
I know just what you mean. I refused to watch Avatar for ~15 years for the same reason.

So let me temper your expectations:

The story fits within FiM, exceedingly well. The timeframe is somewhere between s2 and end of s3 (cuz twi has no wings). It follows the story canon long enough to be believable and consistent with how the characters are known to behave leading up to it.
I havent actually read the original story, I'm confident in having sufficiently goaded Elway into doing it (oops?), but as for the comic,....
I'm having difficulty addessing the criticism of pacing. For one, I see nothing wrong with the pacing that it maintains, and for two I wonder what level of pacing would have been preferred. Part of the theme of the story is the suddenness that 'this' psychotic and secret "side-story" is now spilling through the consciousness of pony culture.
>sad RD 'struggling with trauma
....
I dont have assurances, and younprobably havent read the Ago y spiel previously, so here's the quick rundown.

Rainbow Dash is the second victim of a primordial evil that seeks to corrupt the elements of harmony and all of ponykind. So far, the element of laughter has been turned into the element of suffering, and the element of loyalty just got turned into the element of,... we dknt know cuz she hasnt woken up yet. Betrayal? Malice? We'll have to wait and see.
Now, shut ur smooth-brain ass up if you're too thick to be able to see what author is doing. ^_^

>>380637
Agony*

>>380637
>I'm having difficulty addessing the criticism of pacing. For one, I see nothing wrong with the pacing that it maintains, and for two I wonder what level of pacing would have been preferred.
I should probably have expressed myself better, however I think your explanation here addresses my 'question':
>'this' psychotic and secret "side-story" is now spilling through the consciousness of pony culture.
I got a better understanding of what is going on now. I was looking at this from the lenses of an absolutely different kind of story, think of the tone and pacing employed in the novel 'the collector', for example. It's completely different, my mistake.

>younprobably havent read the Ago y spiel previously
Indeed.
But thanks for the quick rundown, Anon, I think this story is not for me at all. I won't pollute your thread with further criticism. I hope you and everyone else have a good time, don't let my personal tastes seem like a threat.

>>380639
>won't pollute your thread with further criticism
Fie on you for thinking that. There is no such 'pollution', just catty banter and an exchange of ideas. If the story isnt to your liking that's understandable, but don't let some cheeky backtalk from me sour you to the story.

If you want to experience it "right", watch some early season 1 or 2, grt into the pony mindset, and THEN read it.

>>380640
>but don't let some cheeky backtalk from me sour you to the story.
Oh, no, it's not that, it's the premise that more or less drives me away. It's hard to put into words why 'the elements are turning evil' is such an off-putting prompt to me, but it is what it is.
I'll check it out when the author is done with it, maybe this ends up being great and I am just not seeing the bigger picture.

I'm just really harsh on my takes, that is what I meant by 'polluting', don't wanna bring down the mood and all that, it really is better if I just *pop* back into this thread when all is said and done.
Plus I'm not a professional writer by any means so it's not like my criticism is of much value besides just stirring discussion.

>>380641
>the elements turning evil is off-putting
Appreciated, but that's also (for me at least) part of the draw. At least so far, the premise of the story DOESN'T conflict with the overarching story of FiM, which is what makes it compelling. The author is essentially saying "okay what if all this stuff over here is actually a reference to this sinister shit", and while heinous, imo it doesn't defy disbelief in either the series or this specific premise.
>I'm just some fucking guy
We all are, but I have OP's ear, and if you have constructive criticism, its better to hear it. Remember, Nigel is responsible for "Faraneigh" being named "Marenheit"

>>380790
>Remember, Nigel is responsible for "Faraneigh" being named "Marenheit"
That's probably the best motivational quote I have ever read. It's sad to know no one from outside this board would ever understand it, though...

>>380798
That you get the reference is all the thanks I need fren ^_^

Ahem
The following post was authorized under the condition that
No one fucking posts it (my words, not hers). Not any booru, no not ponerpics,... no no no.

Alright then. The reason I'm posting this is to give a single-shot example of the type of content produced. This image is completely out of sequence in any context, though we know it takes place before the Dash attack.

But we know these characters. We know that the donkey loves the dj, the dj who doesn't ever talk.
Imagine the psychological trauma of being strapped down and forced to listen to the dying screams of the pony you love, possibly hearing her voice for the last time, on her iconic headphones.
And imagine the psychotic Pinkie Pie, gloating about how she got her to really 'sing'.

The story is horrific, but it really isn't that gorey, its more a psychological horror. Where previously I saw Pinkie as being under the influence of a primordial evil - whether personified like Discord or more a personal effect like Nightmare moon - I'm not so sure.
This recent pic suggests a distinct pathology to Pinke's behavior that is as easily explained by psychosis which again could kead back to the Pie family (massacre?), where Pinkie was caused to snap and has been a super sneaky psychopath this whole time.

But none of this is ever explained. Its only intuited by a very thorough analysis of the clues and easter eggs we do get. There's no arrows pointing to Babs Seed's scalp, it's in the background, easily overlooked. There are a few overt references - Gilda specifically - but most of it is stuff you have to know. Like the collection of unicorn horns, or The dress made of cutie marks and mismatched wings.

Latest 4 panels :3
Pinkie either doesnt remember or pretends to mot

Oh, uh, yeah, Im super retarded

SinfulPie - op of the comic - is apparently a dude. IM SO SORRY. my bad ._.

What more can I say? Its so well written and illustrated that you have to read it more than once just so you can catch all the things you missed on the previous reading(s)

The song/animatic is complete, as today marks the 1 year anniversary of the start of this comic spinoff

Rainbow Dash wakes up
https://youtu.be/mjU3ZLui9Hg?si=ZH-azhpnXXwX0-Ml

>>381121
TY based sven, I had to leave the cupcakes server for infosec reasons. I'll be back at it in a couple weeks, but TYSM for updating ^_^