I was thinking hard how to help a poner within the limits of an imageboard.
To begin with, to reach in person is out of the question as we are all anons. Then considerations about character comes to the foreground as potentially high risk.
So what is left is to try to reach his mind in order for him to see different avenues, or possibilities.
Then the question is... how to unblock him without to enrage him or increase his resistance to change?
This poner has lost faith on himself and even Friendship. Also it looks like he is godless and unable the draw power from it. It won't be easy.
/ub/ - Überhengst
Becoming better
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In a strict sense, you're looking at this from the wrong angle. We are all anonymous. If you see sickness in some posts, then the collective consciousness is already in touch with it. Focus on healing the collective, not the individual.
Practically, I understand this is a small imageboard and some posters will post recognizable posts. Still, helping someone is difficult enough when you can talk to them; I doubt much of the standard advice applies.
If you insist upon connecting with an individual, I'd say the first order of business is to give them a reason to check back in with you in the future. Do you have anything to post that the anon would like? Then you might also be able to give him what (you think) he needs.
Just don't underestimate legion: If this one anon has "lost faith on himself and even Friendship", why not others? How many lurk without posting?
Practically, I understand this is a small imageboard and some posters will post recognizable posts. Still, helping someone is difficult enough when you can talk to them; I doubt much of the standard advice applies.
If you insist upon connecting with an individual, I'd say the first order of business is to give them a reason to check back in with you in the future. Do you have anything to post that the anon would like? Then you might also be able to give him what (you think) he needs.
Just don't underestimate legion: If this one anon has "lost faith on himself and even Friendship", why not others? How many lurk without posting?
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>>6967
>If you see sickness in some posts, then the collective consciousness is already in touch with it.
I hope for your sakes that isn't the case. Otherwise we got a storm coming. And if OP is referring to whom I think he is, it's not the kind of storm that typically passes and is repaired with time and a few months of community togetherness.
Not that community togetherness is in the cards anymore. Truth is, he and those like him will be in a tailspin from which they will never recover. The fires of these crashed lives will cover the country in smoke and historians will remember it as the period in time that a nation's people failed themselves. Individually, and as groups. You chose too late to involve yourself in his troubles, OP. And you all had your chance once before. More than once, but the most apparent opportunity you had was quite a while ago. Two years on the dot, if memory serves. But too late now.
>If you see sickness in some posts, then the collective consciousness is already in touch with it.
I hope for your sakes that isn't the case. Otherwise we got a storm coming. And if OP is referring to whom I think he is, it's not the kind of storm that typically passes and is repaired with time and a few months of community togetherness.
Not that community togetherness is in the cards anymore. Truth is, he and those like him will be in a tailspin from which they will never recover. The fires of these crashed lives will cover the country in smoke and historians will remember it as the period in time that a nation's people failed themselves. Individually, and as groups. You chose too late to involve yourself in his troubles, OP. And you all had your chance once before. More than once, but the most apparent opportunity you had was quite a while ago. Two years on the dot, if memory serves. But too late now.
>>6967
>How many lurk without posting?
Me, for example, and I think many others too. I post way too rarely outside of few threads that don't matter much.
>How many lurk without posting?
Me, for example, and I think many others too. I post way too rarely outside of few threads that don't matter much.
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>>6968
>I hope for your sakes that isn't the case. Otherwise we got a storm coming. And if OP is referring to whom I think he is, it's not the kind of storm that typically passes and is repaired with time and a few months of community togetherness.
>Truth is, he and those like him will be in a tailspin from which they will never recover. The fires of these crashed lives will cover the country in smoke and historians will remember it as the period in time that a nation's people failed themselves. Individually, and as groups.
Zoomers will most likely live miserable lifes. Hardly newsworthy. To think this site would have made much of a difference is quite childish. Even when >we were more numerous and active.
Also, in my experience, everyone who uses the term "friendship" like that. Either doesn't really have an actual argument, or is schizo posting. Which, to everyone's surprise, is quite useless when trying to give serious advice.
>I hope for your sakes that isn't the case. Otherwise we got a storm coming. And if OP is referring to whom I think he is, it's not the kind of storm that typically passes and is repaired with time and a few months of community togetherness.
>Truth is, he and those like him will be in a tailspin from which they will never recover. The fires of these crashed lives will cover the country in smoke and historians will remember it as the period in time that a nation's people failed themselves. Individually, and as groups.
Zoomers will most likely live miserable lifes. Hardly newsworthy. To think this site would have made much of a difference is quite childish. Even when >we were more numerous and active.
Also, in my experience, everyone who uses the term "friendship" like that. Either doesn't really have an actual argument, or is schizo posting. Which, to everyone's surprise, is quite useless when trying to give serious advice.
>>6970
>To think this site would have made much of a difference is quite childish
On the small scale, there was potential. A community with common values, despite differences. But instead of trying to make a difference for a few hundred people, you put your hands up.
That anon was right. Maybe you should join him on the street. Or join his corpse beneath a train.
>To think this site would have made much of a difference is quite childish
On the small scale, there was potential. A community with common values, despite differences. But instead of trying to make a difference for a few hundred people, you put your hands up.
That anon was right. Maybe you should join him on the street. Or join his corpse beneath a train.
>>6970
You call it schizo posting, but personally I think >>6968 has created a piece of poetic art.
The post starts off explaining that the situation is rather dire, then along with the image posted, spins off into a PTSD episode of completely unrelated past events. The border between the actual commentary and the PTSD is so gradual it would be easy to miss (which is the true strength of the artwork), were it not for the spoilered text.
The piece lets us reflect on whether our history is relevant to the events we see today, and if those who remember still have the strength to tell the tale.
You call it schizo posting, but personally I think >>6968 has created a piece of poetic art.
The post starts off explaining that the situation is rather dire, then along with the image posted, spins off into a PTSD episode of completely unrelated past events. The border between the actual commentary and the PTSD is so gradual it would be easy to miss (which is the true strength of the artwork), were it not for the spoilered text.
The piece lets us reflect on whether our history is relevant to the events we see today, and if those who remember still have the strength to tell the tale.
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>>6971
>On the small scale, there was potential.
Sure thing. Now what? Am not the one saying we shouldn't help him. You'd know that, had you read through the thread instead of posting out of impulsive butthurt.
>That anon was right. Maybe you should join him on the street. Or join his corpse beneath a train.
Maybe, had I placed my life's hopes in some autistic website.
>>6972
Is well known that zoomer don't have a bright future ahead. Kinda embarrassing he thinks he discovered something.
Now then, it also means you don't understand him, anon. I mean, the one who this thread is supposed to help. Many circumstances have befallen him IRL. Maybe alongside a mid-life crisis. Offering advice and most importantly, support is obviously due.
But haven't you noticed he also misses what this site used to be? Why do you think he's constantly attacking a certain elderly poster? Watching this site deteriorate was the last straw.
Posting this same kind of unoriginal, rebranded garbage, typical of late /mlpol/, proves you don't even get him.
>On the small scale, there was potential.
Sure thing. Now what? Am not the one saying we shouldn't help him. You'd know that, had you read through the thread instead of posting out of impulsive butthurt.
>That anon was right. Maybe you should join him on the street. Or join his corpse beneath a train.
Maybe, had I placed my life's hopes in some autistic website.
>>6972
Is well known that zoomer don't have a bright future ahead. Kinda embarrassing he thinks he discovered something.
Now then, it also means you don't understand him, anon. I mean, the one who this thread is supposed to help. Many circumstances have befallen him IRL. Maybe alongside a mid-life crisis. Offering advice and most importantly, support is obviously due.
But haven't you noticed he also misses what this site used to be? Why do you think he's constantly attacking a certain elderly poster? Watching this site deteriorate was the last straw.
Posting this same kind of unoriginal, rebranded garbage, typical of late /mlpol/, proves you don't even get him.
>>6973
>Am not the one saying we shouldn't help him. You'd know that, had you read through the thread instead of posting out of impulsive butthurt.
>Zoomers will most likely live miserable lives. Hardly newsworthy.
>To think this site would have made much of a difference is quite childish.
>Anyone who uses the term "friendship" like that. Either doesn't have an actual argument, or is schizo posting.
>(You believe in some kind of social cohesion or harmony, nod an argumend hue)
Gee where might someone get the impression you don't care or that you're telling people to resign to their fate. Must just be impulsive butthurt from someone who didn't read the thread.
>Am not the one saying we shouldn't help him. You'd know that, had you read through the thread instead of posting out of impulsive butthurt.
>Zoomers will most likely live miserable lives. Hardly newsworthy.
>To think this site would have made much of a difference is quite childish.
>Anyone who uses the term "friendship" like that. Either doesn't have an actual argument, or is schizo posting.
>(You believe in some kind of social cohesion or harmony, nod an argumend hue)
Gee where might someone get the impression you don't care or that you're telling people to resign to their fate. Must just be impulsive butthurt from someone who didn't read the thread.
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>>6974
>Gee where might someone get the impression you don't care or that you're telling people to resign to their fate.
The "storm" you've been rambling about is a generational catastrophe everyone should be well aware of by now. It is in fact, hardly newsworthy. Sorry if I don't consider your post particularly enlightening.
And no, this site wouldn't have made much of a difference in the grand scheme of things. Sorry bud, you were the one who brought up the "storm" and decided to look at the greater picture.
>Gee where might someone get the impression you don't care or that you're telling people to resign to their fate.
The "storm" you've been rambling about is a generational catastrophe everyone should be well aware of by now. It is in fact, hardly newsworthy. Sorry if I don't consider your post particularly enlightening.
And no, this site wouldn't have made much of a difference in the grand scheme of things. Sorry bud, you were the one who brought up the "storm" and decided to look at the greater picture.
>>6975
If preventing a hundred suicides a year and breeding a thousand better men isn't large scale enough for you, then you're gonna follow that anon down a spiral sooner or later. Teaching people to weather the storm used to be the purpose of this board. Whatever the fuck this site means to you.
If preventing a hundred suicides a year and breeding a thousand better men isn't large scale enough for you, then you're gonna follow that anon down a spiral sooner or later. Teaching people to weather the storm used to be the purpose of this board. Whatever the fuck this site means to you.
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>>6976
>If preventing a hundred suicides a year and breeding a thousand better men isn't large scale enough for you
Jeez Anon. Why are you so easily demoralized? I've never said you should just resign. If anything, you are the one who's given up on this Anon.
Should I mention how empathetic you sounded here? >>6971
<That anon was right. Maybe you should join him on the street. Or join his corpse beneath a train.
Had I said that, you would be bitching about it nonstop.
>Teaching people to weather the storm used to be the purpose of this board.
All am saying is, get your eyes off the stars if you want to shit out some TedTalk. Even if it's just a recycled rundown of what zoomers are projected to get in the future.
>If preventing a hundred suicides a year and breeding a thousand better men isn't large scale enough for you
Jeez Anon. Why are you so easily demoralized? I've never said you should just resign. If anything, you are the one who's given up on this Anon.
Should I mention how empathetic you sounded here? >>6971
<That anon was right. Maybe you should join him on the street. Or join his corpse beneath a train.
Had I said that, you would be bitching about it nonstop.
>Teaching people to weather the storm used to be the purpose of this board.
All am saying is, get your eyes off the stars if you want to shit out some TedTalk. Even if it's just a recycled rundown of what zoomers are projected to get in the future.
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>>6977
Reason I'm not sympathetic to that anon is because that anon is me. And I want you to do this site a favor and do a flip off the golden gate. You're better as fertilizer than a member of any community that seeks to do something.
Speaking of things being done. The homelessness begins tomorrow. I told dad as much. I did not argue or raise my voice, I simply told him my plan. After I told him I am going to bed to prepare for the remainder of my packing, he tried for ten minutes to break down my door. I repeatedly told him I want to sleep, and he started screaming and swearing while I stay in bed. It is past midnight. I am sleeping with a tower fan to use as a battering ram if he successfully kicks the door down. This is the man who I've put up with since I was born. And people like him are everywhere, you being the prime example. Kill yourself, and take a few kikes with you on the way to Hell. That way your absence makes room for a better anon who actually gives a shit about things that aren't gacha games with 9000 year old naked vampire lolis. You piece of shit.
Reason I'm not sympathetic to that anon is because that anon is me. And I want you to do this site a favor and do a flip off the golden gate. You're better as fertilizer than a member of any community that seeks to do something.
Speaking of things being done. The homelessness begins tomorrow. I told dad as much. I did not argue or raise my voice, I simply told him my plan. After I told him I am going to bed to prepare for the remainder of my packing, he tried for ten minutes to break down my door. I repeatedly told him I want to sleep, and he started screaming and swearing while I stay in bed. It is past midnight. I am sleeping with a tower fan to use as a battering ram if he successfully kicks the door down. This is the man who I've put up with since I was born. And people like him are everywhere, you being the prime example. Kill yourself, and take a few kikes with you on the way to Hell. That way your absence makes room for a better anon who actually gives a shit about things that aren't gacha games with 9000 year old naked vampire lolis. You piece of shit.
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>>6981
Don't believe you until I see same ID. Even if you are, what a faggot move to pretend you are someone else on a thread clearly dedicated to your situation.
Hope you (or him) can find peace soon. And I don't mean below a train.
Don't believe you until I see same ID. Even if you are, what a faggot move to pretend you are someone else on a thread clearly dedicated to your situation.
Hope you (or him) can find peace soon. And I don't mean below a train.
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Is quite rich that a walking bag of cynicism is unironically talking about "saving thousands of lives", in an autistic pony website no less.
I thought you of all people would be tired of fairy tales.
>>6983
Right, not my fault it took him this long tho. But I guess...making better choices so he doesn't have to?
I thought you of all people would be tired of fairy tales.
>>6983
Right, not my fault it took him this long tho. But I guess...making better choices so he doesn't have to?
If hundreds of users visit the site, with content that actually aids them in their lives and personal development during hard times, then that's a chunk of people saved.
I didn't make this thread. Before I outed myself I said that it was too late to start caring and I mean it. I did what I could. I wrote for writing threads, both green and longform. I shared literature that helped me in my trying times. I tried to start dozens and dozens of topics that actually mattered, things that all of (You) could do in any life situation for the causes you believe in. I went out on propaganda flyer spreading trips in meatspace. And you, and every other faggot in this site, saw fit to put their efforts towards arguing with or dunking on Glimmernigel and Boom Boom instead. The few times I got any others to contribute to threads, it immediately turned into look-at-this-asshole time like every question or problem I might have had was a direct decision to be useless to society that you guys just had to shit talk me out of.
Not that you would know fuckall about that because the only thing I ever see you do is post smug reaction pictures and treating every thread topic as a reddit debate you must debunk. Almost like a certain other user we allegedly both hate. Reason number one you should kill yourself. Now.
I didn't make this thread. Before I outed myself I said that it was too late to start caring and I mean it. I did what I could. I wrote for writing threads, both green and longform. I shared literature that helped me in my trying times. I tried to start dozens and dozens of topics that actually mattered, things that all of (You) could do in any life situation for the causes you believe in. I went out on propaganda flyer spreading trips in meatspace. And you, and every other faggot in this site, saw fit to put their efforts towards arguing with or dunking on Glimmernigel and Boom Boom instead. The few times I got any others to contribute to threads, it immediately turned into look-at-this-asshole time like every question or problem I might have had was a direct decision to be useless to society that you guys just had to shit talk me out of.
Not that you would know fuckall about that because the only thing I ever see you do is post smug reaction pictures and treating every thread topic as a reddit debate you must debunk. Almost like a certain other user we allegedly both hate. Reason number one you should kill yourself. Now.
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>>6985
>And you, and every other faggot in this site, saw fit to put their efforts towards arguing with or dunking on Glimmernigel and Boom Boom instead.
So...that's why you decided to join in and shit endlessly on that faggot elder? Shit doesn't make any sense, but whatever.
I just don't understand the glass-fragile morale of everyone here. You know what, fuck it. There's no point in any of this. I could go on to poke your daddy issues. But I won't.
Sorry for everything I said. For what its worth, I sincerely hope things get better for you and everyone. And sorry for not approaching you sooner when it probably mattered the most.
You should reconsider about sharing your stuff online. I don't mean it as a threat or anything. Seriously, I know you probably just want to vent. But even if this site is anonymous, you should be aware some people can hurt you if they know where to push and poke. Again, am leaving you alone, this is legitimate advice.
>And you, and every other faggot in this site, saw fit to put their efforts towards arguing with or dunking on Glimmernigel and Boom Boom instead.
So...that's why you decided to join in and shit endlessly on that faggot elder? Shit doesn't make any sense, but whatever.
I just don't understand the glass-fragile morale of everyone here. You know what, fuck it. There's no point in any of this. I could go on to poke your daddy issues. But I won't.
Sorry for everything I said. For what its worth, I sincerely hope things get better for you and everyone. And sorry for not approaching you sooner when it probably mattered the most.
You should reconsider about sharing your stuff online. I don't mean it as a threat or anything. Seriously, I know you probably just want to vent. But even if this site is anonymous, you should be aware some people can hurt you if they know where to push and poke. Again, am leaving you alone, this is legitimate advice.
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I'm that anon that made those posts in /qa/ last week regarding my family, figured I would give an update. I was able to convince my family and I got on a few of those interviews last week. Haven't heard back from anyone yet, and I think they don't look like good places to work at, but that's a separate problem I can deal with on my own. It was incredibly stressful trying to get them to go along with it at first, but they were totally fine with it once we were in the middle of traveling.
I'm continuing to put in applications in places for now, also working out a plan to strike out on my own, just in case. Thanks to everyone who responded, though I made those posts while I was hot-headed and upset, which I really didn't want to do.
As a separate issue, I think my mom has been prodding me to get actively involved in politics or punditry and it's concerning me, but I guess we're entering blogpost territory there.
I'm continuing to put in applications in places for now, also working out a plan to strike out on my own, just in case. Thanks to everyone who responded, though I made those posts while I was hot-headed and upset, which I really didn't want to do.
As a separate issue, I think my mom has been prodding me to get actively involved in politics or punditry and it's concerning me, but I guess we're entering blogpost territory there.
>>7000
I don't want to sound paranoid or make you the same, but you may want to be certain that your parents don't know where you are applying to. It is a bit odd that they did a 180 and supported you working. No compromise? That isn't impossible, but I would not rule out sabotage. I doubt the reason you have gotten no response is due to sabotage as I have been struggling to get any sort of interview as well, but it is best not to tempt fate.
Do not give them the chance to make you think you are going to get a job and they will just call a company and say to not hire you to keep you around the house. Even if you believe this is not like them to do, don't let it be on the table seeing as they were insane enough to hold the position of you need to pay and not work in the first place.
I don't want to sound paranoid or make you the same, but you may want to be certain that your parents don't know where you are applying to. It is a bit odd that they did a 180 and supported you working. No compromise? That isn't impossible, but I would not rule out sabotage. I doubt the reason you have gotten no response is due to sabotage as I have been struggling to get any sort of interview as well, but it is best not to tempt fate.
Do not give them the chance to make you think you are going to get a job and they will just call a company and say to not hire you to keep you around the house. Even if you believe this is not like them to do, don't let it be on the table seeing as they were insane enough to hold the position of you need to pay and not work in the first place.
>>7002
I'm not going to count on it being a problem. Right now, it would require glownigger-levels of cloak-and-dagger espionage from them (really, my mom) to get away with it without me noticing. I was at my previous job for about four and a half years without any major incidents aside from the occasional 'muh sabbath' hissy fit if I had to work Saturdays. I would be more worried about the possibility of third-party organizations doing that shit to me, but I have no way to verify if it's true or how to stop it if so.
My mom will, however, run interference by way of many absurd stipulations regarding what kind of job I should take (can't work nights or weekends, can't be anywhere in the county, can't be a lot of manual labor or use of power tools, has to be her idea, etc.). So my primary quest right now seems to be figuring out how to get a car so I can do shit on my own without involving her, and I'm totally on my own with that. She is chaos incarnate and if I involve her in anything, she will needlessly complicate it.
I'm not going to count on it being a problem. Right now, it would require glownigger-levels of cloak-and-dagger espionage from them (really, my mom) to get away with it without me noticing. I was at my previous job for about four and a half years without any major incidents aside from the occasional 'muh sabbath' hissy fit if I had to work Saturdays. I would be more worried about the possibility of third-party organizations doing that shit to me, but I have no way to verify if it's true or how to stop it if so.
My mom will, however, run interference by way of many absurd stipulations regarding what kind of job I should take (can't work nights or weekends, can't be anywhere in the county, can't be a lot of manual labor or use of power tools, has to be her idea, etc.). So my primary quest right now seems to be figuring out how to get a car so I can do shit on my own without involving her, and I'm totally on my own with that. She is chaos incarnate and if I involve her in anything, she will needlessly complicate it.
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>>6973
>he also misses what this site used to be?
What does that even mean
>>6976
>Teaching people to weather the storm used to be the purpose of this board.
If I remember correctly, the purpose of this board was to post pony pussy and let the /pol/fags talk their politics cause that drove away immature people (reddit, tumblr, etc).
Now, I remember a few ideas and projects took place, like that one project about printing 'redpill stickers' and shit like that, but, I don't think this site has ever had a 'greater purpose', Anon.
You're giving an imageboard way too much importance and agency over your life.
I would honestly argue, anyone that gives this board this much importance should learn to live without the internet for at least a year.
The modern internet is bad for you. mlpol might be the least harmful of the devils out there since it is so slow and most posters are smart for internet standards, but it can too become your doom, if you get obsessed.
And about the world and all that, you're not going to change the world within your lifetime, Anon. Especially not with such anxiety, fear and urgency within yourself.
I would advise you to be more stoic about it, you sound like a traumatized little girl, and traumatized little girls do not change the world; They pee themselves and cry.
>he also misses what this site used to be?
What does that even mean
>>6976
>Teaching people to weather the storm used to be the purpose of this board.
If I remember correctly, the purpose of this board was to post pony pussy and let the /pol/fags talk their politics cause that drove away immature people (reddit, tumblr, etc).
Now, I remember a few ideas and projects took place, like that one project about printing 'redpill stickers' and shit like that, but, I don't think this site has ever had a 'greater purpose', Anon.
You're giving an imageboard way too much importance and agency over your life.
I would honestly argue, anyone that gives this board this much importance should learn to live without the internet for at least a year.
The modern internet is bad for you. mlpol might be the least harmful of the devils out there since it is so slow and most posters are smart for internet standards, but it can too become your doom, if you get obsessed.
And about the world and all that, you're not going to change the world within your lifetime, Anon. Especially not with such anxiety, fear and urgency within yourself.
I would advise you to be more stoic about it, you sound like a traumatized little girl, and traumatized little girls do not change the world; They pee themselves and cry.
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>>6981
>Speaking of things being done. The homelessness begins tomorrow. I told dad as much. I did not argue or raise my voice, I simply told him my plan. After I told him I am going to bed to prepare for the remainder of my packing, he tried for ten minutes to break down my door. I repeatedly told him I want to sleep, and he started screaming and swearing while I stay in bed. It is past midnight. I am sleeping with a tower fan to use as a battering ram if he successfully kicks the door down. This is the man who I've put up with since I was born. And people like him are everywhere, you being the prime example. Kill yourself, and take a few kikes with you on the way to Hell. That way your absence makes room for a better anon who actually gives a shit about things that aren't gacha games with 9000 year old naked vampire lolis. You piece of shit.
I guess now I understand why is it that you sound so anxious.
I might not know your age but, mentally, you are still an adolescent.
>Speaking of things being done. The homelessness begins tomorrow. I told dad as much. I did not argue or raise my voice, I simply told him my plan. After I told him I am going to bed to prepare for the remainder of my packing, he tried for ten minutes to break down my door. I repeatedly told him I want to sleep, and he started screaming and swearing while I stay in bed. It is past midnight. I am sleeping with a tower fan to use as a battering ram if he successfully kicks the door down. This is the man who I've put up with since I was born. And people like him are everywhere, you being the prime example. Kill yourself, and take a few kikes with you on the way to Hell. That way your absence makes room for a better anon who actually gives a shit about things that aren't gacha games with 9000 year old naked vampire lolis. You piece of shit.
I guess now I understand why is it that you sound so anxious.
I might not know your age but, mentally, you are still an adolescent.
>>7059
>You're giving an imageboard way too much importance and agency over your life.
>I would honestly argue, anyone that gives this board this much importance should learn to live without the internet for at least a year.
>The modern internet is bad for you. mlpol might be the least harmful of the devils out there since it is so slow and most posters are smart for internet standards, but it can too become your doom, if you get obsessed.
Pretty much this. Although shitting on him wasn't necessary, I'm not one to talk.
>You're giving an imageboard way too much importance and agency over your life.
>I would honestly argue, anyone that gives this board this much importance should learn to live without the internet for at least a year.
>The modern internet is bad for you. mlpol might be the least harmful of the devils out there since it is so slow and most posters are smart for internet standards, but it can too become your doom, if you get obsessed.
Pretty much this. Although shitting on him wasn't necessary, I'm not one to talk.