So a random thought occurred to me, forgive me if I'm inadvertently bringing up an old topic that the fandom already settled years before I joined it.
It's established in the beginning of the series that Celestia and Luna have lived and been princesses for at least 1000 years, probably much longer since they are shown as adults at the time of the initial conflict and appear to still be roughly in the prime of their lives 1000 years later. It's also not explicitly stated but basically implied that ordinary ponies, ie normal Earth Ponies, Unicorns and Pegasi, live ordinary lifespans. So as I understand it, the basic setup is that Alicorns are a special race of pony that are either immortal, or have a lifespan of at least several thousand years, far longer than that of an ordinary pony.
Celestia hand-picks Twilight, who is an ordinary Unicorn with exceptional magic talent, to be her student, with the expectation that eventually she will graduate and ascend to Alicorn status, meaning she acquires either immortality or an extremely long life depending on how it works. Meanwhile, as part of her training, she sends her to some bum-fuck pony town in the middle of the sticks with the intention that she make friends and form special bonds with them.
Under normal circumstances, a teacher sending her isolated, bookish student away from the academy to form friendships with ponies her own age would be a good thing to do. However, Celestia knows from the beginning that eventually Twilight is going to ascend to a state of long life/immortality, while the ponies she's now formed a lifelong bond with are just going to get old and die like normal ponies, thousands of years before Twilight would even show signs of age. She's basically going to have to watch her friends get old and die without her, and then live for another several thousand years with the memory of it.
Is Celestia really just a colossal bitch underneath that regal, sunny exterior? Did her teacher do something similar to her thousands of years ago, and is this her twisted form of retribution? Noodle that one a while.
Pic unrelated but comfy.
/mlpol/ - My Little Politics
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Sad...
If I'm not mistaken, Lauren Faust addressed this question on her Twitter. She replied enigmatically that Twilight would not outlive her friends. (Sorry, don't have a source for it)
This could mean one of three things: a) Twilight doesn't gain immortality, b) her friends also gain an equal lifespan, or c) some accident or conflict will kill Twilight in the next several decades.
Nonetheless, it would make sense for Celestia to do this. It would harden Twilight towards loss (something needed in a national leader who must face disaster) while letting her cultivate a pony attachment to her subjects, allowing her to understand them.
This could mean one of three things: a) Twilight doesn't gain immortality, b) her friends also gain an equal lifespan, or c) some accident or conflict will kill Twilight in the next several decades.
Nonetheless, it would make sense for Celestia to do this. It would harden Twilight towards loss (something needed in a national leader who must face disaster) while letting her cultivate a pony attachment to her subjects, allowing her to understand them.
She will probably outlive her friends indeed, overcoming that is a valuable lesson.
There's a reason she has spike, dragons live far, far longer than ponies, spike will still be around twilight when she losses her friends, this might be a safety mechanism Celestia implement.
There's a reason she has spike, dragons live far, far longer than ponies, spike will still be around twilight when she losses her friends, this might be a safety mechanism Celestia implement.
>>89351
>something needed in a national leader who must face disaster
This is another thing that bugs me about the twicorn business. There were already two 3 alicorn princesses (two is enough imo; Cadence should've been a Pegasus), so why did Celestia have to raise another princess? Celestia doesn't age, and Equestria isn't expanding, so why was it necessary to raise another princess?
>something needed in a national leader who must face disaster
This is another thing that bugs me about the twicorn business. There were already two 3 alicorn princesses (two is enough imo; Cadence should've been a Pegasus), so why did Celestia have to raise another princess? Celestia doesn't age, and Equestria isn't expanding, so why was it necessary to raise another princess?
>>89354
That's kind of along the lines of what I was thinking. Since the series doesn't really clarify whether princesses live forever or just a really long time, my theory is that they are still mortal but have a lifespan of several thousand years or more. Since Celestia and Luna are the same age, it would imply that she raised Twilight to princess in order to train her as a successor. I agree that there's a lot about Cadence that doesn't make a whole lot of sense, I can't figure out if she was raised to princess in a similar manner to Twilight or was somehow born an alicorn, she really doesn't fit into the mythology very well at all.
That's kind of along the lines of what I was thinking. Since the series doesn't really clarify whether princesses live forever or just a really long time, my theory is that they are still mortal but have a lifespan of several thousand years or more. Since Celestia and Luna are the same age, it would imply that she raised Twilight to princess in order to train her as a successor. I agree that there's a lot about Cadence that doesn't make a whole lot of sense, I can't figure out if she was raised to princess in a similar manner to Twilight or was somehow born an alicorn, she really doesn't fit into the mythology very well at all.
>>89344
Also, can I remark on how cute this picture is? Dragons are cold-blooded (to my knowledge) and can't keep themselves warm with blankets, so on cold winter nights Twilight shares her bed. Of course there are people who will put it in a lewd light, but to me it shows the maternal bond Twilight has with her friend.
>>89354
Meta reason: Hasbro wants money, and what better way than introduce a new toy? Also, girls love princesses and having the main character turn into one would make them squee with delight. At least it's better than the Gen3 episode where somepony (they're all forgettable) said "You're all princesses!"
In-universe, though, maybe Celestia and Luna know something that the others don't? It could be that they know they will die soon and need two replacements ready to rule Equestria. Or maybe there is a major threat previously unseen coming to Equestria and they need as much magical power as necessary to defeat it? This theory would be much cooler if the royal sisters weren't pony versions of Lt. Worf.
Also, can I remark on how cute this picture is? Dragons are cold-blooded (to my knowledge) and can't keep themselves warm with blankets, so on cold winter nights Twilight shares her bed. Of course there are people who will put it in a lewd light, but to me it shows the maternal bond Twilight has with her friend.
>>89354
Meta reason: Hasbro wants money, and what better way than introduce a new toy? Also, girls love princesses and having the main character turn into one would make them squee with delight. At least it's better than the Gen3 episode where somepony (they're all forgettable) said "You're all princesses!"
In-universe, though, maybe Celestia and Luna know something that the others don't? It could be that they know they will die soon and need two replacements ready to rule Equestria. Or maybe there is a major threat previously unseen coming to Equestria and they need as much magical power as necessary to defeat it? This theory would be much cooler if the royal sisters weren't pony versions of Lt. Worf.
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>>89344
In the Sisters Journal it states that raising and lowering the sun/moon irrevocably depletes magical energy. Celestia almost never in CURRENT_YEAR shows magical strength. She always delegates. I suspect Celestia is near depleted and is making a replacement. The REEEEing will never end.
In the Sisters Journal it states that raising and lowering the sun/moon irrevocably depletes magical energy. Celestia almost never in CURRENT_YEAR shows magical strength. She always delegates. I suspect Celestia is near depleted and is making a replacement. The REEEEing will never end.
>>89344
>hand-picks
I stopped reading there. OP: you are a FLYING FUCKING FAGGOT. Ponies have hooves. The end.
>hand-picks
I stopped reading there. OP: you are a FLYING FUCKING FAGGOT. Ponies have hooves. The end.
>>89344
anon if a friend of yours died would they be less of a friend? everyone dies someday but life and friendship still matter. What if next to her bed celestia has a picture of her and 5 other ponies, from thousands of years ago?
anon if a friend of yours died would they be less of a friend? everyone dies someday but life and friendship still matter. What if next to her bed celestia has a picture of her and 5 other ponies, from thousands of years ago?
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>>89375
>mfw it actually occurred to me as I was typing to say hoof-picked instead of hand-picked but decided it would be too corny and autistic so I went with hand-picked against my better judgement only to end up being shamefully called out on it by anon
>mfw it actually occurred to me as I was typing to say hoof-picked instead of hand-picked but decided it would be too corny and autistic so I went with hand-picked against my better judgement only to end up being shamefully called out on it by anon
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>>89385
My apologies Anon. If it doesn't have hooves, I simply have zero enjoyment for it. On a side note, have some ironic humor!
My apologies Anon. If it doesn't have hooves, I simply have zero enjoyment for it. On a side note, have some ironic humor!
>>89344
>Is Celestia really just a colossal bitch underneath that regal, sunny exterior?
Nope. We all die anon. Everyone you love and care for is going to die. Twilight, regardless of her accession could very well of lived long enough to see all her friends die. Increased life or effective immortality is always a gift. Your friends may leave you for one reason or another, but so long as you are alive you can always make more friends.
>Is Celestia really just a colossal bitch underneath that regal, sunny exterior?
Nope. We all die anon. Everyone you love and care for is going to die. Twilight, regardless of her accession could very well of lived long enough to see all her friends die. Increased life or effective immortality is always a gift. Your friends may leave you for one reason or another, but so long as you are alive you can always make more friends.
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Found this picture and it's emotional enough to revive this thread.
>>91936
And then spike keeps her pile of bones to place at the entrance to his treasure cave.
He's too kind to actually kill anypony, so she protects him, even in death.
And then spike keeps her pile of bones to place at the entrance to his treasure cave.
He's too kind to actually kill anypony, so she protects him, even in death.
>>91936
Despite the sad implications, I think twilight will be happy spending time with his old friend and not sad like depicted here.
Like, there's a time to be sad, until that time comes, there's no need to feel that way.
Despite the sad implications, I think twilight will be happy spending time with his old friend and not sad like depicted here.
Like, there's a time to be sad, until that time comes, there's no need to feel that way.
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I am firstly not convinced that Celestia expected Twilight to ascend to Princess status. She may pretend as if she did, seeing that it was inevitable to seem wiser. Even if she did, there is nothing cruel about this. What is the alternative? Discourage Twilight from socializing with non-alicorns, limiting her bonds to her mentor and her ex-babysitter who's fucking her brother?
This is a childish "vampires and immortality are tragic" type of viewpoint. The same logic would argue against keeping pets, because humans outlive pets, so by having them, you are guaranteeing you will outlive the thing you bond with. It also argues against children bonding with grandparents, as they die pretty soon after.
Let's instead focus on how Celestia is morally ambiguous by engineering the mind-rewrite of her sister via the Elements of Harmony wielded by her proxies. This is what Zatanna did to Doctor Light. But was Nightmare Moon actually a Doctor Light or was she more of a Batman? NMM came down from a lunar millenium angry and conquering, but that is to be expected after solitary confinement for such a length. She wasn't frozen in time like Star Swirl the Bearded, she was CONSCIOUS. Humans go mad after a month in solitary, how long do you expect winged unicorns to last?
What matters is how Luna acted prior to being imprisoned and we have no idea about that. Twi say a vision in Zecora's hut but Zecora could be an agent working for Celestia to feed Twi false intel so she doesn't mindbreak like if she actually looked into "I don't turn ponies into stone". At least Celestia's stone prisoners are frozen in time like Starswirl and not conscious like NMM was as Mare in the Moon.
This is a childish "vampires and immortality are tragic" type of viewpoint. The same logic would argue against keeping pets, because humans outlive pets, so by having them, you are guaranteeing you will outlive the thing you bond with. It also argues against children bonding with grandparents, as they die pretty soon after.
Let's instead focus on how Celestia is morally ambiguous by engineering the mind-rewrite of her sister via the Elements of Harmony wielded by her proxies. This is what Zatanna did to Doctor Light. But was Nightmare Moon actually a Doctor Light or was she more of a Batman? NMM came down from a lunar millenium angry and conquering, but that is to be expected after solitary confinement for such a length. She wasn't frozen in time like Star Swirl the Bearded, she was CONSCIOUS. Humans go mad after a month in solitary, how long do you expect winged unicorns to last?
What matters is how Luna acted prior to being imprisoned and we have no idea about that. Twi say a vision in Zecora's hut but Zecora could be an agent working for Celestia to feed Twi false intel so she doesn't mindbreak like if she actually looked into "I don't turn ponies into stone". At least Celestia's stone prisoners are frozen in time like Starswirl and not conscious like NMM was as Mare in the Moon.
>>89361
>In the Sisters Journal it states that raising and lowering the sun/moon irrevocably depletes magical energy
I haven't read it but the Wikia summary on this states this is only for unicorns and not winged unicorns...
http://mlp.wikia.com/wiki/The_Journal_of_the_Two_Sisters#The_sisters.27_first_sunrise
>As the sisters believe nothing else could go wrong in Equestria, they awaken one morning to find Equestria shrouded in night and Star Swirl's usually brown beard completely gray. The two are horrified to learn that all of the unicorns who normally raise and lower the sun and moon wind up permanently depleting their magic to do so. Furthermore, Star Swirl—the only one from the team able to withstand this process—tried to lower the moon by himself and has lost his own magic as a result.
>When the sisters ask what they can do to help, Star Swirl tells them that, as Alicorns, they would not only be unharmed by raising and lowering the sun and moon, but their magic would also be rejuvenated. Acting on instinct, Luna successfully manages to lower the moon while Celestia raises the sun. Upon their completion, the sisters are overjoyed to discover they have earned their cutie marks, which Celestia notices are identical to the markings on the Tree of Harmony.
>With their magic strengthened by the sun and moon, the sisters are able to restore Star Swirl and the other unicorns' magic.
Interesting bit that Star Swirl was doing cool stuff before they even got their cutie marks... never knew that. I remember they did mention remembering Star Swirl and him being their teacher. I'd like to read more of this. If this summary is true is wrecks your theory though.... although I do remember the episode they switched jobs and I'm not sure if that actually rejuvenates their magic or not when they do the opposite thing of their cutie mark.
>In the Sisters Journal it states that raising and lowering the sun/moon irrevocably depletes magical energy
I haven't read it but the Wikia summary on this states this is only for unicorns and not winged unicorns...
http://mlp.wikia.com/wiki/The_Journal_of_the_Two_Sisters#The_sisters.27_first_sunrise
>As the sisters believe nothing else could go wrong in Equestria, they awaken one morning to find Equestria shrouded in night and Star Swirl's usually brown beard completely gray. The two are horrified to learn that all of the unicorns who normally raise and lower the sun and moon wind up permanently depleting their magic to do so. Furthermore, Star Swirl—the only one from the team able to withstand this process—tried to lower the moon by himself and has lost his own magic as a result.
>When the sisters ask what they can do to help, Star Swirl tells them that, as Alicorns, they would not only be unharmed by raising and lowering the sun and moon, but their magic would also be rejuvenated. Acting on instinct, Luna successfully manages to lower the moon while Celestia raises the sun. Upon their completion, the sisters are overjoyed to discover they have earned their cutie marks, which Celestia notices are identical to the markings on the Tree of Harmony.
>With their magic strengthened by the sun and moon, the sisters are able to restore Star Swirl and the other unicorns' magic.
Interesting bit that Star Swirl was doing cool stuff before they even got their cutie marks... never knew that. I remember they did mention remembering Star Swirl and him being their teacher. I'd like to read more of this. If this summary is true is wrecks your theory though.... although I do remember the episode they switched jobs and I'm not sure if that actually rejuvenates their magic or not when they do the opposite thing of their cutie mark.
>>89344
I remember mom saying she would not outlive her friends but I cant find the file right now
Just know there is a difference between true alicorns, ascended ones and the demon baby
I remember mom saying she would not outlive her friends but I cant find the file right now
Just know there is a difference between true alicorns, ascended ones and the demon baby
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>>89344
Natural alicorns(Celestia and Luna) have an extended lifespan compared to regular ponies as seen with Starswirl being mentors to the two, unnatural alicorns(Twilight and Cadence) age about the same as ponies, as seen with Twilight's flashback with cadence being an alicorn as a child in the Canterlot wedding.
Natural alicorns(Celestia and Luna) have an extended lifespan compared to regular ponies as seen with Starswirl being mentors to the two, unnatural alicorns(Twilight and Cadence) age about the same as ponies, as seen with Twilight's flashback with cadence being an alicorn as a child in the Canterlot wedding.
>>100578
Is Cadence an unnatural Alicorn? I've never been entirely too clear on just what the hell she is and where the hell she came from exactly.
Is Cadence an unnatural Alicorn? I've never been entirely too clear on just what the hell she is and where the hell she came from exactly.
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>>100603
According to the wiki, She was supposed to be a pegasi, but then Hasbro made her an alicorn after Faust left so there's a lot of plot holes that were never filled.
http://mlp.wikia.com/wiki/Princess_Cadance
According to the wiki, She was supposed to be a pegasi, but then Hasbro made her an alicorn after Faust left so there's a lot of plot holes that were never filled.
http://mlp.wikia.com/wiki/Princess_Cadance
>>89361
Celestia and Luna's special talents are in lowering/raising the sun/moon, hence why they have not had their magic depleted in over 1000 years of performing the job. Celestia is magically strong, which is why when Twilight gets the magic of the other princesses in her, she becomes many times more than just 4 times stronger than her normal self. What she is, however, is mentally incompetent, and very good at hiding this.
Celestia and Luna's special talents are in lowering/raising the sun/moon, hence why they have not had their magic depleted in over 1000 years of performing the job. Celestia is magically strong, which is why when Twilight gets the magic of the other princesses in her, she becomes many times more than just 4 times stronger than her normal self. What she is, however, is mentally incompetent, and very good at hiding this.
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