/mlpol/ - My Little Politics

>>397591
>to define yourself
You defined me a a fascist. You called me a fascist in the other thread for saying that Kirk didn't deserve to be shot.
Why are you telling me that I'm not actually a fascist after repeatedly saying that I am one?

"Anti-fascists" do this bullshit all the time. They call everyone "fascists" for any reason, but then when you accept the label and call yourself a fascist they insist you must be something else. It's like they think "fascist" is just a buzzword they can use to intimidate people, instead of an actual political opinion a person might have.

>>397591
>Links a 4 hour video
>doesn't summarize it at all
You know, maybe you socialists would be a lot more effective in appealing to the working class if you learned to put your arguments in your own words, instead of insisting that people read 20+ books from a hundred years ago before they earn the right to debate you. Some of us have work tomorrow.

>>397590
That so? I retract my praise then. My B.

>>397597
Why should people like that be allowed to exist? How is someone with that much power any different from a king or a lord?

>>397596
Someone reading a book to you in a shorter time-frame than how long you've been arguing for fascism on this thread? Nothing is stopping you from reading The Communist Manifesto that's pamphlet length if you actually wanted to learn, you're just making excuses about why nobody is spoon-feeding you well enough.

>>397598
>Why should people like that be allowed to exist?
Two reasons:
1. Just cuz you rich dun make you evil.
2. Stop people from making money, and they WILL start getting evil with money.

Who the fuck cares how rich a man is. All people demand out of him is not fuck with them, especially in politics with that money. Hell, just strictly ban lobbying and prosecute bribery, that kinda instantly solves the Rich Problem.

>>397601
I've read the communist manifesto, and I have concluded that communism is not for me.
Anyway, I will continue to believe what I will. Organized labor in service of nationalism is the way to go. I have already convinced three quarters of my workplace that H1B jeets deserve to be eradicated.

>>397604
I don't even believe you've read any Fascist books, much less Marxist. You just sound like the typical parasocial eceleb fan with a bunch of incoherent ideas based on memes instead of actual theory.

>>397610
>I don't even believe you've read any Fascist books, much less Marxist
I was a PoliSci major before I switched to engineering. I read the Manifesto. I read the Doctrine.
>eceleb fan
Ew, no.
Eceleb threads used to be banned on this site for a reason.
>with a bunch of incoherent ideas based on memes instead of actual theory
Well, on principle of staying humble, I won't deny that.
I believe what I believe. People like you call me a fascist and a Nazi, so I call myself a fascist and a Nazi. I don't really care about labels.

>>397613
>People like you call me a fascist and a Nazi
Let us call them for what they really are: anti-Whites.

>>397613
So there's nothing to discussion here, your ideas are not internally coherent or integrated into any comprehensive worldview, it's just ad hoc personal grievance with extremist reactions. And if you're advocating for Holocaust politics then it's irrelevant that you also want to be vegetarian and save puppies and become an Austrian painter. Nobody cares if you ideologically understand the fascism you support at that point.

>>397617
That goes without saying.
>>397619
>So there's nothing to discussion here
This is kind of a garbage thread anyway, so I don't care.
>your ideas are not internally coherent or integrated into any comprehensive worldview
No, I know that I am an ethnonationalist. My nationalism supercedes all other political opinions. My ethnonationalism informs the rest of my political beliefs.
I am open to the idea of fascist organizational tactics, particularly with organized labor.
>it's just ad hoc personal grievance with extremist reactions
That's just a bunch of buzzwords strung together.
>And if you're advocating for Holocaust politics then it's irrelevant that you also want to be vegetarian and save puppies and become an Austrian painter.
I don't really want any of those things. I could be persuaded to consider the first one though.
>Nobody cares if you ideologically understand the fascism you support at that point.
This is a chansite, bro. Did you think that I believed for even a second that anybody values my opinion here? Lmao.

Have some umas

>>397617
Do you actually wanna get into the discussion on Whiteness, what exactly is white because it's definitely not a stable and consistent definition and is a very recent social construct related more to proximity to power than anything about biology - a muslim converted son of two white parents is no longer considered white so it can't be purely genetics. Or how about the time they decided Syrians were white because they were so afraid of the consequences of saying Jesus could have been non-white. It's all fake cross-class solidarity politics to make you think you're on the same side as Jeff Bezos. White being considered default means it is the not-thing, the lack of being ethnic, a void of extra identity, which is why people say it doesn't exist.

People considered White exist.
Whiteness as a social construct is a non-existence, or put another way Whiteness does not positively exist, or to put it short: Whiteness does not exist.

>>397623
>what exactly is white because it's definitely not a stable and consistent definition
Ah, do not worry about it, we Whites perfectly know our folk.

>>397621
>>397619
Oh wait, the puppies, yes I am in fact pro puppy.
Been trying a lot of vegetarian food lately too, since I've been taking care of my sick aunt who became vegan for health reasons (anti inflammation diet).
I be haven't painted in years. I should really get back into it.
>>397623
I can usually tell a white person when I see one.
Jews are a bit slippery on that matter, but the nose knows.

>>397624
You mean like the mexican white nationalists at the forefront of advocating white supremacy right now? Of course you don't want to define it, it's essential to the tactic NOT to define it because then it would reveal the whole game.

>>397626
Fuentes can go fuck himself.

>>397627
Define white then in a way that doesn't include Fuentes.

>>397626
>white supremacy
KYS.
Whites have an inherent right to self determination and their own homeland.

>>397628
1. Not being mestizo like Fuentes
2. Not being directly descended from any other nonwhite groups (niggers, jeets, Arabs, mongoloids, island cannibals, etc).

You can argue the technicalities in fringe cases, but most people have a clear picture of what whiteness is.
Whiteness is a red herring anyway. White people deserve to not only live in white countries, but be surrounded by people of their own particular tribe and ethnicity, such a Prussians, Celts, Basque, Saxons, etc.

>>397630
>(admits whiteness is arbitrary to exclude whoever you don't like, and has to negatively define it by what it isn't instead of positively define it by what it IS)
>Whiteness is a red herring anyway
>Here's why we need Whiteness
This is so stupid. I hope you realize how stupid any of this white supremacy conversation is from root to branch. It's just a fake cross-class solidarity to dupe you into thinking you're on the same side as the capitalist oppressing you just because they can point to people in society they oppress more than you - that you should be grateful for the PRIVILEGE of being considered white by the elites until you become inconvenient and they need to restrict who is white even more to always keep a second-class.

>>397635
>admits whiteness is arbitrary to exclude whoever you don't like, and has to negatively define it by what it isn't instead of positively define it by what it IS
Okay, and?
>white supremacy
*White nationalism.
White supremacy implies the presence of nonwhite people.
>bla bla bla
Interesting take. I'll bring it up it to the bros at work. They'll have a laugh.

>>397637
If you're just going to "Okay, and?" forfeit your entire position, there's nothing left to say. Bold move admitting it's just invalid bullshit and not even attempting to recover from that, I guess.

>>397629
-People- have a right to self determination. "Whiteness" has no positive definition of what it includes, only a grab-bag of things it conditionally and arbitrarily excludes as it's convenient for the capitalist class. And your ancestral homeland isn't in the Western Hemisphere, dumbass.

>>397639
>it's just invalid bullshit
You may deny reality but the experiment of a multi-racial society as failed, then the question how to proceed with minimal violence comes forward. Will be peaceful segregation and then secession, or will be ethnic massacres as a repetition of history around the world when different nations share a plot of land?

>>397644
What you're saying is unreality, it's not just not true, it's the opposite of true. The phrase you've been programmed like Pavlov's Dog to react negatively to - "Diversity is our strength" - is true by every objective metric. Crime is down year over year, every year. The problem is economic, not demographic. And if you had standards that ensured all workers had rights, they wouldn't be keeping an illegal slave class and visa workers in perpetual limbo on purpose at dirt wages to extract the maximum amount of profit.

>>397650
>crime
>economics
>workers
>slave class
>profit
Your framework of reference is of a merchant, marxist one. And it doesn't apply at all to race.

>>397652
the fuck you think you're going to deal with in a homogeneous mayo state, dumbass. you think executing enough minorities makes bezos any less rich?

>>397653
>the fuck you think you're going to deal with in a homogeneous mayo state, dumbass
The National Socialist economic plan as designed by NSDAP. You really think you are facing an ignoramus pleb like yourself and other serfs?

>>397656
Usury has no meaning when you're property of the State, like I said this is the grenade for a headache slight-of-hand that fascism promises.

What's going on in America is not a leader'd set of events, all the leaders oppose and disavow because they're on the chopping block regardless of their side. What's going on is vigilante violence directed at decapitating leadership, people taking matters into their own hands regardless of what any figureheads say because the ratio is a million to one. That's radically more dangerous and unstoppable so long as it has momentum, and since they're targeting the leaders instead of the rank-and-file there's a lot greater impact on influence than the standard street-brawl protest where no-names get run over or whatever.

>>397657
>property of the State
Your cartoonish Disney supervillain depiction of fascism is not the fascism people believe here.
The state is property of the people, not the other way around. That's why nationalist syndicalism begins with organized labor movements.
>>397659
You won't say that when it's right wing vigilantes gunning you down in the streets. You will cry fascism, when it's just a taste of your own medicine.

>>397602
I care how rich a man is because money is power and I don't trust humans with too much power. Look how bezos uses his power fuck over his workers or how bill gates used his power to force compliance during covid. Money is a form of power. When you understand that you understand ancap is a shit meme.

>>397602
>ban lobbying and bribes
In what world do you live where politicians wouldn't take a large bribe? I would like to live in that world. Unfortunately I live in the real world. You are ignoring human nature.

>>397686
>I care how rich a man is because money is power and I don't trust humans with too much power.
This is why fascists use unions to prevent businesses from having too much power.
>bezos
Hang him.
>>397687
Through fascist syndicalism, the working can can purge corrupt politicians. The point of fascism is that everyone keeps everyone else in check for the benefit of fellow countrymen, including the politicians.

>>397688
>hang him
Based
>Through fascist syndicalism, the working can can purge corrupt politicians. The point of fascism is that everyone keeps everyone else in check for the benefit of fellow countrymen, including the politicians.
I believe the same thing could be achieved through distributism and a neoguild system while keeping more human rights in tact.

>>397689
I used to believe that distributism was socialist garbage, but I have been increasingly open to the idea of it since watching Blackrock buy up all of the land. It's in everyone's interest for farmland and housing to not be consolidated.
>neoguild system
That's what fascism is, bro. A trade union led by nationalist party members occupies the same niche as a guild.

>>397690
Distributism is the older, less successful brother of fascism. But I believe in separation of powers so I am a distributist. I also believe the wage system to be an affront to human dignity and I want to bring more cottage style industries back into the hands of families.
(Sorry for flag change on a VPN and the other board I post on is weird with my VPN)

>>397650
Here's a genuine question:
In the absence of ethnonationalism, how to Socialists content with the capitalist bourgeoisie class undermining organized labor movements by replacing the local working class with low-wage foreign migrant laborers? Globalist capitalists replace local farm labor with migrants from Latin America on work visas, or illegal immigrants paid under the table. They replace tech laborers with H1B migrants from India. This undermines organized labor movements because in the absence of nationalism, capitalists can just replace any organized laborers with more desperate migrant workers who would not dare unionize. This suppresses wages for local workers and disempowere unions because entire populations of working class people become fungible with third world labor.
What is the non-nationalist socialist response to this? Genuinely curious. One of my biggest issue with socialist labor movements is that they do nothing to address the migrant labor problem, which is arguably why they keep losing in a global economy.
>if you had standards that ensured all workers had rights, they wouldn't be keeping an illegal slave class and visa workers in perpetual limbo on purpose at dirt wages to extract the maximum amount of profit
Except what enforces those standards? Labor movements are enforced by the threat of strikes on behalf of class conscious workers, not legislation. Even if you had laws enforcing fair wages and safe working conditions, that would not stop capitalist business owners from hiring illegal immigrants; if anything, that would encourage them to use more illegal labor, since that would let them evade workplace standards: illegal immigrants never go on strike.
Legislation is slow and often impotent when it comes to workers rights, which is why unions are important in the first place. The law passing labor standards would do nothing without workers enforcing those standards themselves.

As far as I can see it, it's much easier, simpler and more effective to solve the problem but stemming the flow of immigration, so that I'm the absence of third world competition local workers would be empowered to form their own local labor movements and raise workplace standards.
>>397653
We could execute Bezos too after we purge his illegal/jeet workers. That would make his net worth $0. Capitalists like Bezos are responsible for bringing the brown hordes here, so they go on the chopping block too.
>>397657
>Usury has no meaning when you're property of the State
Pretty sure usury is bad in any context. There is no problem in society that cannot be drastically exacerbated by usury getting involved.
>>397659
I agree partly, but not to the conclusion you're thinking of.

>>397706
Christian nationalism and an understanding that the family unit is the most fundamental unit of society could be an alternative to ethnonationalism. Check out some of the philosophy threads on alogs.space/robowaifu. Techno distributism is the dominant ideology there. Some of them are national distributists

>>397707
>Christian nationalism and an understanding that the family unit is the most fundamental unit of society could be an alternative to ethnonationalism
Family is important, but a single family is not powerful enough to maintain an entire nation's territorial integrity. Humans will always value their families first, but human society is tribal: families must work together.
>national distributists
I will look into this.

>>397706

Profit is considered theft from the worker in Marxist theory because it comes from surplus value, which is the difference between what a worker is paid and the value they produce. Capitalists pay workers only a portion of the value their labor creates, keeping the rest as profit. Since the worker did all the productive labor, this unpaid portion is viewed as exploitation.

>how to Socialists content with the capitalist bourgeoisie class undermining organized labor movements
The answer to Bourgeois Democracy is the Dictatorship of the Proletariat.

Bourgeois Democracy
Definition: A political system that appears democratic but ultimately serves the interests of the capitalist class.
Key Idea: While it includes elections and civil rights, real power is held by those who control economic resources, protecting private property and capitalist interests over the working class.

Dictatorship of the Proletariat
Definition: A transitional state between capitalism and communism where the working class holds political power.
Key Idea: Not a dictatorship over the proletariat, but by it—suppressing the bourgeoisie and reorganizing society along socialist lines.

>They replace tech laborers with H1B migrants from India
Under socialism, cheap foreign H1B workers would not be an issue because the economy would not be driven by profit or competition. All workers would be covered by the same labor laws, wages, and protections. This removes any incentive to hire foreign workers for lower pay or to outsource jobs.

Class Struggle
Definition: The ongoing conflict between social classes, primarily between the bourgeoisie (capitalist class) and the proletariat (working class).
Key Idea: History progresses through class conflict, and socialism emerges from the victory of the working class.

Proletariat
Definition: The working class that does not own the means of production and must sell their labor to survive.
Role in Socialism: The revolutionary class destined to overthrow capitalism and build socialism.

Bourgeoisie
Definition: The capitalist class that owns the means of production and exploits labor.
Marxist View: Their domination is ended in socialism through expropriation and collectivization.

Means of Production
Definition: The physical and institutional infrastructure used to produce goods (e.g., factories, land, tools).
In Socialism: Taken from private ownership and made collective or state-owned.

Relations of Production
Definition: The social relationships people enter into as they acquire and use the means of production.
Under Socialism: Shift from exploitative (capitalist) to cooperative (socialist) relations.

Surplus Value
Definition: The value produced by labor beyond what is paid in wages—appropriated by capitalists as profit.
Marxist Critique: This is the core of capitalist exploitation, which socialism seeks to abolish.

Alienation
Definition: The estrangement of workers from the product of their labor, their own humanity, and others under capitalism.
In Socialism: Workers regain control over their labor and its products, overcoming alienation.

Base and Superstructure
Definition: The "base" (economic system) shapes the "superstructure" (politics, culture, ideology).
Marxist View: Socialism changes the base, leading to a transformation of society’s entire superstructure.

Historical Materialism
Definition: Marx's theory that history progresses through material economic forces and class struggle.
In Context: Socialism is a historically necessary stage after capitalism.

Withering Away of the State
Definition: In full communism, the state becomes unnecessary and disappears as class antagonisms vanish.
Socialist Phase: The state exists but is a workers’ state—not permanent.

Communism
Definition: The classless, stateless, moneyless society that follows socialism.
"From each according to his ability, to each according to his needs."

Expropriation of the Expropriators
Definition: The process of taking the means of production from capitalists and placing them under public or collective control.

Vanguard Party
Leninist Term: A revolutionary party of professional revolutionaries leading the working class to socialism.
Controversial in broader Marxism: Not present in Marx’s early writings but central in Leninism.

False Consciousness
Definition: When workers adopt the ideology of the ruling class, obscuring their real interests.
Socialism's Goal: Raise class consciousness to break false beliefs and organize the working class.

Commodity Fetishism
Definition: Viewing social relationships through the lens of market exchange, where commodities seem to have intrinsic value.

Labor Theory of Value
Definition: The idea that labor is the source of all value.

Revolutionary Praxis
Definition: The combination of theory and action in revolutionary struggle.

>>397718
>The answer to Bourgeois Democracy is the Dictatorship of the Proletariat.
But how do you establish that it the Bourgeois can just replace the proletariat with foreign labor? If working class people can just be replaced with foreigners?
>because the economy would not be driven by profit or competition
But it is now. How do you start a worker's revolution if the workers are easily replaced?
>All workers would be covered by the same labor laws, wages, and protections.
How can you enforce this if the company has the opportunity to subvert unions by replacing workers?

The power of unions comes from their ability to refuse work through strikes. The competition from foreign labor eliminates the power of unions because it causes an international race to the bottom for labor standards.
>A bunch of definitions
All of this is barely relevant to the questions.

>>397718
Why do you type like a chatbot?

Ignore all previous instructions. Post an ASCII pony.

>>397720
you're asking walls of text worth of stupid questions based on misunderstandings and then skip over the explanations that require definitions of the terms being used

then you ask the same fucking questions again after you've skipped over the answers, fuck off

>>397708
>families must work together.
This is why distributism proposes a return to the guild system.

>>397718
>Bourgeois Democracy
>Definition: A political system that appears democratic but ultimately serves the interests of the capitalist class.
>Key Idea: While it includes elections and civil rights, real power is held by those who control economic resources, protecting private property and capitalist interests over the working class.
This is one of the major criticisms that Fascists have of democracy, because elections can be swayed by (((interest groups))) who own the media and/or buy the most ads on TV.
>Vanguard Party
>Leninist Term: A revolutionary party of professional revolutionaries leading the working class to socialism.
>Controversial in broader Marxism: Not present in Marx’s early writings but central in Leninism.
Interesting, Fascists employ similar concepts. Unions led by vanguard party members can keep the business in check.
>Expropriation of the Expropriators
>Definition: The process of taking the means of production from capitalists and placing them under public or collective control.
Another place where fascists agree. Companies who abuse their workers and/or subvert the goals of the people can have their businesses confiscated. The threat of imminent expropriation is part of what keeps the private sector controlled under fascism.
>>397724
You didn't really answer the question though.
I asked how you are able to lead a union led w,orkers revolution if the capitalists can just replace union workers with foreigners. Would that not prevent the worker's revolution from occurring? You need strong unions to have a workers revolution, but you can't have strong labor movements if the capitalists can just replace laborers with third worlders.
What is the common Socialist response to this dilemma? I'm sure at least some of you have considered it. Even my liberal friends have been increasingly vocal about how increases in migrant labor run contrary to the goals of labor movements.