/poner/ - Ponies

I will take the first step:
It's my theory, mostly about origins:
Let's go through the timeline from the founding of Equestria up to the start of the show, before I jump into my main theory. We'll skip the stuff before equestria for now:
So, it all starts with Grogar. He ruled over Equestria with an iron hoof, running a cruel and tyrannical regime, and also ended up creating a bunch of monsters. Eventually, Gusty the great stole his bell (as mentioned in the legend from Season 7), apparently with an army of unicorns, and hid it, leading to Grogar's downfall.
Now here's where things get a bit fuzzy. There's a gap in the info. My guess is: After Grogar fell, the monsters he had created basically took over, throwing equestria into chaos. That is, until the Pillars showed up. They fought those monsters, defeated a bunch of them, and brought some kind of stability back.
At this point, Celestia and Luna were still young(maybe even kids) and were training under Star Swirl. According to Season 8, they were already showing signs of special power. Around this same time, Tirek and Scorpan arrived in equestria, and Scorpan became friends with Star Swirl.
Then came the whole Stygian incident, and the Pillars ended up banishing themselves. Another blank spot here. My theory is: After the pillars disappeared, some kind of political power struggle broke out. But it didn't last long, because Celestia and Luna eventually stepped up and took control. They were likely just old enough at that point to start their reign.
Next major event? King Sombra. I think this happened early in the sisters' rule. They had to fight him off, probably to prove themselves as legit rulers. After that, Discord entered the scene(probably from another dimension or plane of existence). Eventually, using star swirl's writings and the tree of harmony, the sisters managed to turn him to stone. That might have taken a while, considering how many creatures later on seem to know about him (Tirek, Chrysalis,...), so he clearly reigned for some time.
And then, the story of Tirek that we know from season 4.
Then came the Nightmare moon incident. Luna turned, got banished, and Celestia ruled solo for a thousand years(or months? I really don't know...). Sometime before the show starts, Sunset Shimmer(one of Celestia's students) went rogue and escaped to another world.
So yeah, that's a rough timeline. I know it skips a few details, but it sets the stage for my real question:

Don't you feel like something weird is going on behind the scenes this whole time?

Let me spell it out:
Celestia claims she wanted Twilight to make friends out of kindness, but it just so happened to be the exact year nightmare moon returned, leading to the formation of the mane six??
Discord stayed stone for centuries, but then suddenly got released right after the mane six discovered the Elements of Harmony?
Celestia and luna never had prophetic dreams about any other events(like Discord's return or Tirek), but somehow had a warning dream specifically about Chrysalis’s plot?
Cadence just so happened to be introduced and get married right before the crystal empire reappeared, and then she becomes its ruler?
And what about when celestia gave Twilight star swirl’s unfinished spell? If she really didn’t know what the spell would do, wasn't it reckless to hand it over like that? What if it was dangerous? Unless… she did know. Unless this was all part of a plan to turn Twilight into an alicorn.
But then later(especially in the song "You’ll Play Your Part"), Celestia basically admits she has no clue what twilight’s destiny is supposed to be. So, what gives? Did she really not know? Or was someone else guiding her?
Someone who seemed to always know what was going to happen. Someone who may have been pulling the strings from the shadows, giving guidance (maybe subtly, maybe directly) not just to Celestia and Luna, to others, too.
If Luna had never gone bad, the elements of harmony would never been needed, and the mane six would never formed. So maybe(just maybe), someone had been planning all of this way in advance.
The same "someone" who later set things up so that Starlight Glimmer would get reformed? Who made sure Sunburst came back just in time to help save the Crystal Empire, and later sent Thorax to rally help when things looked hopeless?
Heck, maybe this same force even triggered the Storm King's attack in the movie, just so the ponies would meet other species and get the idea to start a friendship school. Which, in turn, helped unite them all against future threats.
Even in equestria girls, this presence seems to be at work. It may have orchestrated Sunset Shimmer’s return to redeem her, introduced twilight to the human world to save it, and then somehow... cut the connection to prevent too much interference between the two worlds. Later, the girls there just happen to get magical crystals that work a lot like the elements of harmony(even Sunset gets one!)
Coincidence? I really doubt it...

>>9731
So... who is "he"? Could "he" simply be a metaphor, a symbolic presence born from the logic of light and dark, of yin and yang? I doubt it. He seems too aware for that. As if... he’s trying to make amends. Like he’s actively attempting to undo the destruction caused by Grogar, trying to redeem the monsters(or villains) one by one. Nearly every antagonist in the series has been reformed, either by heroes or even by former villains themselves. That level of awareness and mortality doesn’t align with the abstract existence of something like "the magic of friendship" or some cosmic principle.
And because of that, I don’t think he’s a god either. A god would know everything from the beginning. But he didn’t. He had to learn. To grow. At some point, he must have reached a level of insight where even the future wasn’t hidden from him anymore. So... he's not divine. But still the question: who is he?
Celestia? Luna? No, absolutely not! If anything, they've been more like puppets in his grand design than anything else.
Star Swirl? Still no! You can only tell if someone can solve a problem, if you can solve it too. But Star Swirl’s unsolved spell is proof he couldn’t. "He" knew the answer(he gave the spell to Twilight to finish). And besides, Star Swirl was in exile for a time. He clearly didn’t grasp the full picture.
What about Discord? He could be a strong candidate. He’s chaos incarnate, and we know almost nothing about his origin. Some even speculate he might be Grogar. But again... no. Despite his cunning moments(like planting the seeds to destroy the tree of harmony), he showed emotional weakness through Fluttershy. If he were truly the mastermind, he wouldn’t have fallen so easily for such a personal bond. So no, Discord isn’t him either.
So then... who?
Maybe the answer is this: he isn’t someone we have met, not yet. He isn't one of the revealed characters. Maybe he's someone hidden, observing from the outside. But again, not a god! Just... powerful, intelligent, trying to fix the past. So, who was he?
Could he be Grogar himself?? But what if Grogar never even existed?? What if Grogar's story was just a lie?? A myth planted by someone who needed the world to believe in a monstrous past??
After all, if someone had the power to create something like Grogar's bell, creating a myth wouldn't be so hard either.
So let's push further: what if the entire foundation of Equestria was a lie???
The Windigos appear when ponies are divided, right? But in g5, which is supposed to continue g4, they should have reappeared, yet they didn’t. So what happened? Maybe someone stopped them. Maybe "he" stopped them! Because maybe... "he" created them in the first place.
Think about it: what if "he" was the first alicorn, a being so powerful and intelligent that he fabricated the windigos as a crisis, so he could unite the tribes by force? What if the "founding of equestria" was staged? Maybe even the warming heart didn’t exist back then?! Maybe it was him who performed some theatrical "battle" and established himself as king. Maybe he ruled for a time, until corruption or pride consumed him. Maybe villains like king Sombra were once his students or trusted allies(just as Sunset Shimmer turned on Celestia).
And eventually, he realized his mistakes. Perhaps something awakened him. Maybe a tragic loss? And that realization broke him. He wiped everyone's memories, rewrote the legends, created the tale of Grogar, then disappeared into the shadows, orchestrating everything from afar, guiding ponies through the Pillars, then the sisters, then Twilight.
Maybe he eventually reached such a state of awareness that even the future became a plan to him. He became the godlike writer, the puppet master behind fate, free will, and chaos.
And yeah, maybe you’ll say: "Dude, you’re overthinking a show written by lots of different writers who didn’t even keep their own lore straight!" Maybe, but now that g5 has crumbled and g6 is nowhere in sight, maybe this is the best time to revisit g4 and its origins and future. This theory, is one of the few that can explain the loose threads, and continue them too.
Now it’s up to us, our creative minds, to write a fanfiction around this mystery: What if "he" was Celestia and Luna’s elder brother??? Star Swirl’s closest friend??? Gusty’s lover, perhaps??? What if it was her fate(her death or betrayal) that sent him spiraling into darkness???
There are endless possibilities...

But what do you think?

>>9729
<tinfoil hat on!!
the show uses some sort of backward massages or some sort of ''few framed hypnotic clips'' in a short spam of time to brainwash you to join the herd and ''buy OUR TOYS''ing from Hasbro
think about it...it all make sense
--
also pic related twilight is a jew or maybe she read some qabala (jewsih mysticism) books , THAT IS WHY SHE IS GOOD at magic [pic related]

>>9733
>the show uses some sort of backward massages or some sort of ''few framed hypnotic clips'' in a short spam of time to brainwash you to join the herd and ''buy OUR TOYS''ing from Hasbro
Yeah, sure, obviously the show wasn’t meant to be some deep philosophical masterpiece or whatever,
BUT let’s treat it like a challenge, okay?
Let’s try to pull some lore and origin story outta this thing, even if it means forcing a bunch of contradicting stuff to somehow fit together.
>also pic related twilight is a jew or maybe she read some qabala
Look, magic and the whole wizardry culture has always been this super broad concept, every culture had its own flavor.
For the Jews, you get stuff like qabala.
For the Brits, you get Merlin-type wizardry.
For ancient Persia, you had the Zoroastrian magi (the word magic literally comes from that old Persian root, "magush").
So like, saying Twilight is Jewish feels kinda off.
I’d say she’s more like a symbol of her name.
I mean, “Twilight” is that moment when stars start twinkling in the sky(a time between day and night, like between two sisters), it’s literally a star vibe.
And as someone once said:
"How the hay do you even draw a 6-pointed star and not have it look like the Star of David?"
Yup, I think so...

>>9729
practically, the great power that controlled these destinies were scriptwriters
but the answer you are actually looking for is way beyond this show
i see you pointed out all the major events of G4 and referenced G5
but there is another force that you haven't mentioned, one that is related to elements
if we are to take s10 comics as lore, then there were protectors of elements of harmony named "guards of harmony"
in the same comic it is revealed that the elements are way stronger than is suggested throughout the main show
could these guards be what you are looking for?
https://readcomiconline.li/Comic/My-Little-Pony-Friendship-is-Magic/Issue-102?id=189674#3

as an addition a super strange screenshot from the last page
characters like this (i think they were two?) dressed as some agents were appearing through the whole comic, investigating from things and hiding in background
sometimes making predictions
i never ever understood them

>>9735
yeah...i can guess who you are now from that mention of zartosht
--
jews got their mysticism from the time that they were enslaved by egyptians and we all know how advanced Ka'ens and pharaoes were during that time
--
but the show clearly has religious backgroungs
tree of harmony looks like jacobs ladder or jacob's tree from qabalah
the two alicorn sisters always remind me of 'Yin and yang' and 'Ahura and ahraman' but i am not quietly sure
--
m6 are kinda hindu mathras for chakras:
wisdom the third eye from twilight (i know her cutie mark is friendship/magic but hear me out)
laughter for healing sexual chakra
honestly for curing voice chakra from aj
loyalty for heart from RD
i kinda got tired mid sentence but i will try to write more about it later
<autism at work guys , don't touch anything it is not on you
note:
mithra is goddess of friendship , sun and caring
which is dope

>>9736
I hope those scriptwriters were, but they made a scriptwriter character in the verse...

Yeah, I think I read it. But as we know, they aren't really canon, so we can see them as another world, another dimension or whatever...
>>9737
They were two, I guess...
You know, I really didn't read all the comics, because I think they aren't canon and I don't have a lot of time for them, but some of them were interesting.
But after all, I mean someone more important. Those agents may from the org that bonbon was its agent. So... I think it's not the thing I mean... I'm talking about someone who organized all of them, all the equestria and its stuff, you know...

>>9739
<Found me
About the tree, I could believe it was something deep and mysterious before season 7.
But when they said the Pillars made it, it lost some of that magic for me.
I mean, if it was created by some ponies (even if they didn’t really know what they were doing), it doesn’t feel as powerful as the tree in qabala.
Actually, I think "he" was the one who told them to do it, like in my theory.
Your idea about the mane six was interesting, I had not heard that before.
And Celestia too, she always reminded me of Mithra.
Especially in the early seasons, when she still had that god-like feel.
Ponies used to say "oh my Celestia!" instead of "oh my God",
which kind of shows she was like a divine figure.
I think the show is like a mix of different old philosophies and beliefs, made simple for kids.
And It's somehow interesting...

>>9729
I never thought in my whole life that being sick and bored would lead me to making theories about a show like this! Why can’t I just shut the fuck up and rest instead of overthinking pony lore?!

>>9744
the things don't make sense and they don't need to
everypony was just having fun

>>9742
i also think believe in soophism theory that
as far as you believe something or someone as your real God , even like Garfield , it gives you power and confidence
--
i really want to create Poniligion
i also know that you use the Ponies as your 4 elements or even more elements to use dark/light magic
or even ask em to heal your chakrahs
for me it some times works
--
>>9744
Autism , we all have it , and the show is an autism magnet
-DWK

>>9746
I think humans are naturally symbol-driven creatures.
We need to label stuff(ideas, emotions, even people) just to make sense of the chaos. Doesn’t matter if it’s a name, a color, or some made-up shortcut in our heads.
For me, it kinda started with Avatar(The Last Airbender). That was the first time I felt. Later, I even mapped emotions onto the TMNT dudes(like their bandana colors became emotional shortcuts in my brain).
And I’m not even an anime guy like that. I have maybe seen 3 or 4 shows in total. But FMAB seriously messed with my brain in a good way, made me look at concepts differently.
I never tried that pattern-mapping thing with mlp, yet...

Honestly, I believe every human brain has all the mental illnesses loaded in it, just different triggers.
This show? It’s activating the autism slot. I didn’t choose it, it just, clicked in. The magnet pulled, and here I am.

>>9747
i love the show because it honestly is very light-hearted and really needed something cute and wholesome in my life to drove away those dark clouds
[i should make a thread about how others found about mlp and how was their first reaction to it]
mlp has a very good writing
believable characters with unique personalities
it set goals for all of them and through out the show we see how they get over their struggles and weak spots and how they maintain their goals and how they achieve them
also if you are intersted i do have a thread on nhbn about mlp review [my little review]
https://nhnb.org/fim/res/28781.html
i made one for here as well but it seems no one cared
--
anyway
if you like symbolism you can read adrian frudiger's book about symbolism and meaning
it is about how languages and symbols revolutionized through out the whole history
https://archive.org/details/signs-and-symbols-their-design-and-meaning-by-adrian-frutiger-andrew-bluhm-z-lib.org

>>9748
I first saw mlp on Persiantoon channel, and I think the episode was winter wrap up. It really pulled me in, but after the first season, Persiantoon stopped airing, I didn’t continue. As a 13–14 years old boy, I didn’t really want to admit I liked it. I just thought it was a one-season kiddie show.
Years later during covid, I got really sick and had to stay in the hospital. Because of the lack of space, they put me next to a little girl. She was watching mlp on her tablet, season 7! I was surprised it even had that many seasons. I kinda listened to it secretly and really enjoyed the vibe. After I got out, I binged the whole show in like a week and a half.
It gave me a strong sense of childhood comfort. Just knowing that both me and that little girl were enjoying it in that moment really hit something deep. Maybe that’s why I never got into adul stuff of it, or even serious fanfics at first. But Fallout: Equestria got my attention, probably because I have good memories of Fallout 4. I didn’t finish it, but it got me more into the fandom. Mostly just lurking though. I used to be on /mlp/ but it was hard to access from Iran, so I stopped. Now I’m active here again because of being sick.
I read your links and your thread. Really cool stuff! If I get time after finishing The Kite Runner (great book btw), I’ll check out that book, too.
I even tried writing a fanfic myself once. It’s not finished, but I’ve written about 15 pages(size 12 in word) already, just rough story ideas. Maybe one day I’ll finish it.

>>9749
NTA, but I remember my first interaction with MLP was through through FO:E because I was a deep Fallout diehard.
That was many years ago though and I barely remember it. I should find some time to re-read it again with the knowledge I gained from the show

>>9750
Yeah, you know... It's a teeny-tiny loooong fanfic for me to read. I haven't found enough time for it.

>>9749
i was in a bad mental health , my dad just married an asshole woman , i was heavily getting bullied in school , i thought my life was a dead end
i think i was 13 years old at 2nd middle school ( 8th from 12 in ''nezam jadid''
--
way before i saw it on ''gem junior'' and when that intro started i cringed so hard that i jumped like max payne to turn it off , God that intro is pure girly
i am okay with it now
--
later on i decided to give it a try because i did not had anything to do
it could not be worse than my life...
It was ''maud pie'' episode
God i laughed so hard at that episode
maud was an amazing character , sarcastic and brutally honest , and she is such an anti-mlp character
i realized that i am enjoying the show , everyday after horrible iranian school with their shitty teachers and students , i came at out with a good motive of watching the show
it was like coming back from hell to literal heaven
--
my life changed after that , i stood up against my father and his horrible wife , i beat the shit out of that bully , i become famous in my school (9th grade)
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
MLP gave my balls back to me
and saved me from suicide
<that is why i am always respect Mlp and its writers to help to get over my darkest times of life
Now i am 25 and i think i still owe my life to it
i am so better now thanks to mlp
--also my favourite character is Twilight Sparkle as My most respected character and waifu
some one who turned from an anti-social book loving nerd character to an actual Goddess
------
well that is my story and that is why i love it

>>9752
(Hey, sorry for the late reply. I was stuck all day yesterday dealing with some idiot folks who didn't even know how to handle a basic polymer reflux, I was just sick for few days and they were going to ruin the project!)
Anyway, first of all, respect for you man! You made it through and kept going. That's not easy.
For me, honestly, before covid, I hadn't really faced stuff like that. Life was kinda calm. And like I mentioned, mlp didn’t play a big role in my childhood, there were other shows that stuck with me more. But during the pandemic, with all the loneliness and stress, things got really tough. Something really sad happened to me back then and I fell into a pretty deep depression. But after that, mlp felt like a break from the heavy stuff in real life. It really helped calm me down and gave me some hope. I'm kinda thankful to the show for that.
Also, besides that one season I randomly watched on Persiantoon, I watched the whole thing in English. So I don't really have memories tied to the Persian dub or intro.
That said, the show itself is honestly really good. I was sometimes surprised how it explained deep stuff in such a simple and smooth way. The story was also pretty mature and well-done.
Discord is always my number one, but Twilight is a close second. I really liked how responsible she became, from a kinda annoying nerd to a kind and smart leader. I really respect that kind of character growth. (I never really got the whole waifu thing, though, I feel like mine would keep changing all the time, so it doesn't really work for me.)

>>9784
it is okay anon we all have life beside internet , i know it is SHOCKING

>>9784
as a super introverted person , covid was the best time of my life, i know it is a very shitty thing to say , alot of good people died but fuck it , i was having fun
i chose mathematics in highschool by force of my dad and i was getting brain rotted by that subject
covid saved my carreer otherwise i could not graduate
i have not watched season 5 before 2019 cause gem stopped dubbing the show and in that time , so i began to watch jewtube
i watched ''ponybro i guess'''s channel he reacted to all of the episodes , covid was less shitty for me and give me a good year to ladder all of the episodes with the dude , amazing for me

>>9789
I understand. I think covid was like a phase of life, a new kind of experience, really. For me, most of my university years happened during that time, and honestly, it kinda made me hate the major I was studying. (That was actually one of the reasons I switched fields.)
Besides the sickness, stress, and all the tough stuff, that period gave me a lot of time to think. A lot of my current mindset came from that time. I also learned a bunch of useful skills(like working with office and adobe programs) which ended up helping me a lot later on.

Covid took a lot away, but yeah... it gave a lot too.

>>9729
My theory that I had been working on a couple years ago was the creation story of the show. I ran into a bit of a road block, but I got decently far. At first, I believed the moon was responsible for the creation, but now I am not sure about that. However, there are definitely strange magical powers that the moon has... or should I say moons? There are at least two moons in Equestria.

The stained glass in the first episode are shown in several other episodes in the background in the throne room. They seem to depict the creation event in Equestria, showing a chaotic ocean world, then what appears to be planet orbits, and then phases of the moon with... a face on it? I guess there was possibly a prophecy about the Mare in the Moon, knowing Luna was going to be banished to the moon. Or the moon is a living entiy.

The stars are also curious in the show. The stars aid in Luna's escape. How? Stars aren't supposed to move. Are they alive or manipulated by Luna or the moon itself? Also, all the most powerful unicorns relate to celestial bodies. Perhaps this is because they are tapping into power that existed to the point of allowing the formation of Equestria.

Like I said, I ran into a bit of a roadblock in the theory, so I don't have the greatest list of supporting evidence, but I do think that there was actually a planned creation story that they hinted at.

>>9796
That's a really interesting theory you have brought up!
Personally, I don’t think it’s something that can be easily proven, since there aren't really any solid pieces of evidence about how the world started in the show. So instead of treating it strictly as a theory, maybe it would work better as a fanfic idea, something that can't be disproven.
As for the moon being the source of creation, I don't really agree. It definitely has magical powers (then again, everything in this world is kind of magical), but I don't think it’s that powerful. Even if we try to justify Luna moving the moon as proof of her importance, we can't ignore the fact that Discord casually messed with day and night in Season 2. So neither the moon nor the sun seems to be powerful enough to be a "creator".
About the face in the moon, that was a good observation. But keep in mind that a lot of cultures depict the moon (especially the full moon) with a face. So the stained glass might be more symbolic or stylistic than deeply meaningful.
Now, your thoughts on the creation event itself were actually super cool! I totally agree that equestria might have been formed in phases like that. Since the show is such a blend of different myths and legends, your theory fits well into that vibe. Of course, there could be other interpretations, but yours sounds very reasonable.
As I said earlier, everything in the show has magic, and magic means power. So the stars having magical energy makes sense (even the ursa major and minor were pretty strong creatures). But saying they're alive might be a bit of a stretch. Personally, I think Luna escaped from the moon because of a prophecy that said she would, like it was fate or destiny. (In my own theory, this was actually the work of "Him".) So I wouldn’t say the stars freed her directly, maybe she used their magic, but not in a way that proves they're super powerful or sentient.
Now, about powerful unicorns being tied to celestial stuff. I liked that point! Though there might be exceptions (like Clover the clever), but I think it mostly comes from how the show draws from real-world myths. In many cultures, astronomy and magic are closely linked. So someone who studied the stars was often seen as a scholar or a sorcerer. It doesn't have to mean they literally draw power from the sky.
To me, magic works like a feedback loop: the more you connect with it, the stronger your connection gets, and the more powerful you become. I even have this theory that strong magical connections can extend your lifespan, which could explain why alicorns or ponies like Star swirl live so long.
Anyway, overall your theory was interesting, especially the part about the world forming in stages. But like I said at the start, because there’s so little actual evidence, it’s hard to make a theory you can prove... so maybe the goal should be to make one that can’t be disproven easily.
And your theory isn’t easily disproven.