Many times, it is brought up that SJW's, Communists, and other leftists want to take away our free speech. To that end, most on the right of the political spectrum say that free speech should be protected. However, it is also said among the right that leftist propaganda should be curtailed, (i.e. talking about homosexuality, showing race mixing, shoving the Communist Manifesto in our faces, etc.). However, free speech also means allowing this alleged propaganda to continue. Is the right really compatible with the tenant of free speech? If an exception is made, could that exception also be applied to the right?
/mlpol/ - My Little Politics
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>>114151
Ofc the right is compatible. You don't win an argument by preventing the speech of your opponent, you do it by debunking and defeating their speech.
Ofc the right is compatible. You don't win an argument by preventing the speech of your opponent, you do it by debunking and defeating their speech.
>>114153
I agree with that, but what about the areas that rely less on debate, like Communist College lectures, and business advertising that pushes diversity? There seems to be a large faction that wants to see the plug on these pulled forcefully.
I agree with that, but what about the areas that rely less on debate, like Communist College lectures, and business advertising that pushes diversity? There seems to be a large faction that wants to see the plug on these pulled forcefully.
>>114157
So then how much freedom of speech should be allowed? Also, taking into account the Streisand effect, would not limiting free speech become counter productive anyway?
So then how much freedom of speech should be allowed? Also, taking into account the Streisand effect, would not limiting free speech become counter productive anyway?
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>>114151
I see where your coming from. I guess my best answer is a question. If a teacher is teaching his Muslim students to act in Jihad should we let that continue? No because its a dirrect call to action to hurt others. Same with communsim at teh end of the day its a call to violent revolution. People that are communists should be thrown in jail because of it.
Homosexuals and homosexuality is a bit tough. I'd say that homosexuality should be treated a bit more like porn. We shouldn't ban it but we have a moral right not to normalize it to children.
>>114157
Sorta a weak reason anon. if people are given the choice between racial solidarity and free speech a lot will opt for free speech. Its not an either or and I'd rather not alienate lolberatirans who could be good identarians.
I see where your coming from. I guess my best answer is a question. If a teacher is teaching his Muslim students to act in Jihad should we let that continue? No because its a dirrect call to action to hurt others. Same with communsim at teh end of the day its a call to violent revolution. People that are communists should be thrown in jail because of it.
Homosexuals and homosexuality is a bit tough. I'd say that homosexuality should be treated a bit more like porn. We shouldn't ban it but we have a moral right not to normalize it to children.
>>114157
Sorta a weak reason anon. if people are given the choice between racial solidarity and free speech a lot will opt for free speech. Its not an either or and I'd rather not alienate lolberatirans who could be good identarians.
>>114155
Unfortunately, that strikes me as a 'war' of attrition. The US in particular is becoming increasingly aware of the shenanigens, bullshit, and insolvency of leftist ideologies. As their influence and power is sapped, not least of which by a president who appears to give 0 fucks, they will grow increasingly subversive, unreasonable, and ultimately damaging (literally) to the surrounding environments they inhabit, and will be witnessed doing so with increasing scrutiny.
Tl;dr we may not see it in our lifetime, but the left - which has dominated American culture for decades - has long since peaked and is on the decline, which will accelerate as time goes on.
Unfortunately, that strikes me as a 'war' of attrition. The US in particular is becoming increasingly aware of the shenanigens, bullshit, and insolvency of leftist ideologies. As their influence and power is sapped, not least of which by a president who appears to give 0 fucks, they will grow increasingly subversive, unreasonable, and ultimately damaging (literally) to the surrounding environments they inhabit, and will be witnessed doing so with increasing scrutiny.
Tl;dr we may not see it in our lifetime, but the left - which has dominated American culture for decades - has long since peaked and is on the decline, which will accelerate as time goes on.
>>114155
In the case of college lectures, I don't particularly think the speech of professors or students should be forcibly censored by the government. It would just make martyrs out of them, and even though I don't like them I generally believe that anyone has a basic right to believe any idiotic thing he wants. The main thing is for the government to stop FUNDING shit like this. Currently colleges receive government grants and subsidies, and most important of all, the majority of students are loaned money by the Federal government to pay for schooling. Most of the students who pursue leftist majors wouldn't be able to afford their schooling if the government didn't lend it to them, and most of them will be unable to pay it back on the burger flipper jobs that will be all they can get with their worthless degree. Furthermore, the way it currently works is schools estimate the cost of attendance, including tuition, books, living expenses, etc, the student applies for a loan, the government asks the school how much money it will cost for the student to attend for the year, and loans the amount the school says. This is basically why school is so expensive: colleges can pretty much charge whatever the hell they want and the government will just pay it. If the student can't pay the loan back the student's credit is destroyed, the taxpayers get stuck with the bill, and the school doesn't care because they've already been paid. So these left-wing professors, who incidentally don't even teach their own classes half the time, collect huge salaries every year to push commie bullshit down the throats of stupid 18 year olds, who will then end up destitute and drowning in debt for most of their adult lives, and because of their schooling they will blame their problems on capitalism instead of the college that scammed them out of tens of thousands of dollars.
We need to first and foremost stop subsidizing left-wing schools and reform the way student loans are handled. No more blank checks to 18 year old kids with no money sense. There need to be caps on how much an individual can borrow from the government for education in a lifetime, this alone will force schools to lower their tuition rates. Instead of just approving everyone who applies, loans should be approved or denied based on the cost of the program versus a reasonable estimate of expected earnings. Schools need to be made accountable, if a program can't sustain itself or maintain enrollment without money from the government it should be eliminated.
In the case of college lectures, I don't particularly think the speech of professors or students should be forcibly censored by the government. It would just make martyrs out of them, and even though I don't like them I generally believe that anyone has a basic right to believe any idiotic thing he wants. The main thing is for the government to stop FUNDING shit like this. Currently colleges receive government grants and subsidies, and most important of all, the majority of students are loaned money by the Federal government to pay for schooling. Most of the students who pursue leftist majors wouldn't be able to afford their schooling if the government didn't lend it to them, and most of them will be unable to pay it back on the burger flipper jobs that will be all they can get with their worthless degree. Furthermore, the way it currently works is schools estimate the cost of attendance, including tuition, books, living expenses, etc, the student applies for a loan, the government asks the school how much money it will cost for the student to attend for the year, and loans the amount the school says. This is basically why school is so expensive: colleges can pretty much charge whatever the hell they want and the government will just pay it. If the student can't pay the loan back the student's credit is destroyed, the taxpayers get stuck with the bill, and the school doesn't care because they've already been paid. So these left-wing professors, who incidentally don't even teach their own classes half the time, collect huge salaries every year to push commie bullshit down the throats of stupid 18 year olds, who will then end up destitute and drowning in debt for most of their adult lives, and because of their schooling they will blame their problems on capitalism instead of the college that scammed them out of tens of thousands of dollars.
We need to first and foremost stop subsidizing left-wing schools and reform the way student loans are handled. No more blank checks to 18 year old kids with no money sense. There need to be caps on how much an individual can borrow from the government for education in a lifetime, this alone will force schools to lower their tuition rates. Instead of just approving everyone who applies, loans should be approved or denied based on the cost of the program versus a reasonable estimate of expected earnings. Schools need to be made accountable, if a program can't sustain itself or maintain enrollment without money from the government it should be eliminated.
>>114162
I have largely come to the same conclusions, but I want to continue to test this line of thought as much as possible.
Here is a question for you. Many ethno-nationalists want to create an ethno-state using force, (i.e. deporting of lawful citizens of a country at gunpoint due to race). There is also a substantial number on the right that want to see the genocide of groups of people. Using your principle of arresting people due to their desire to harm the state or its citizens, should the ethno-nationalists and the pro genocide right wingers also be arrested?
I have largely come to the same conclusions, but I want to continue to test this line of thought as much as possible.
Here is a question for you. Many ethno-nationalists want to create an ethno-state using force, (i.e. deporting of lawful citizens of a country at gunpoint due to race). There is also a substantial number on the right that want to see the genocide of groups of people. Using your principle of arresting people due to their desire to harm the state or its citizens, should the ethno-nationalists and the pro genocide right wingers also be arrested?
>>114167
So you have no fear of leftist propaganda? What about leftist fallacies that appeal to emotion? All that is needed is for 51% to be fooled to give them real power in a democracy.
So you have no fear of leftist propaganda? What about leftist fallacies that appeal to emotion? All that is needed is for 51% to be fooled to give them real power in a democracy.
>>114170
So very much this. Obtaining a college loan should be comparable to obtaining a scholarship, where the loan is based on merit rather than gibs-me. The problem isn't exclusive to government involvement either, the way the student debt system is setup the banks (who ultimately hold the debt) are guaranteed payment on the loan by the government whether or not the loan is defaulted on, meaning a guaranteed investment. That absolutely needs to change.
>>114173
I am confident that the growing waves of otherwise useless workers will inevitably trend toward debtors prisons (concentration camps), while viable and sound educations (STEM, etc.) will flourish. Success or failure will determine the viability of a college/course, so long as the pressure and exposure against them continues nonviolently (self-defense not counting as violence).
So very much this. Obtaining a college loan should be comparable to obtaining a scholarship, where the loan is based on merit rather than gibs-me. The problem isn't exclusive to government involvement either, the way the student debt system is setup the banks (who ultimately hold the debt) are guaranteed payment on the loan by the government whether or not the loan is defaulted on, meaning a guaranteed investment. That absolutely needs to change.
>>114173
I am confident that the growing waves of otherwise useless workers will inevitably trend toward debtors prisons (concentration camps), while viable and sound educations (STEM, etc.) will flourish. Success or failure will determine the viability of a college/course, so long as the pressure and exposure against them continues nonviolently (self-defense not counting as violence).
>>114170
So your answer is less to censor, and more to starve the beast? That's rather interesting, and pragmatic. Hell, you could probably reform it so only things the country needs like STEM majors are prioritized for grants and loans over the feminist basket weaving major.
So your answer is less to censor, and more to starve the beast? That's rather interesting, and pragmatic. Hell, you could probably reform it so only things the country needs like STEM majors are prioritized for grants and loans over the feminist basket weaving major.
>>114151
Leftist propaganda should be labeled as such and our children should be taught in schools how subversion and propaganda work. We don't have to ban speech.
Leftist propaganda should be labeled as such and our children should be taught in schools how subversion and propaganda work. We don't have to ban speech.
>>114184
>Leftist propaganda should be labeled
What defines propaganda, and should right wing rhetoric also be subject to these speech regulations?
>children should be taught in schools how subversion and propaganda work
Not a bad idea, desu.
>Leftist propaganda should be labeled
What defines propaganda, and should right wing rhetoric also be subject to these speech regulations?
>children should be taught in schools how subversion and propaganda work
Not a bad idea, desu.
>>114177
I also think calling out on leftist propaganda through education is an interesting idea, although it might clash with the status quo. After all, schools currently TEACH leftist ideology. Wether or not the lessons will stick would be a gamble as much as teaching someone drug abuse awareness—which were abnoxious, mind you.
I also think calling out on leftist propaganda through education is an interesting idea, although it might clash with the status quo. After all, schools currently TEACH leftist ideology. Wether or not the lessons will stick would be a gamble as much as teaching someone drug abuse awareness—which were abnoxious, mind you.
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>>114171
>There is also a substantial number on the right that want to see the genocide of groups of people. Using your principle of arresting people due to their desire to harm the state or its citizens, should the ethno-nationalists and the pro genocide right wingers also be arrested?
If it is a call to action saying to target certain individuals in society to be terminated then I would understand why they were arrested if they were spreading the message in a public venue. The thing is I have yet to see that done publicly. Most of those who argue this do it in private like on /pol/ or even lefty/pol/. If it is in private then its not a problem with free speech since every individual should have a right to say or think what he wants to in private. But a call to action against anyone should not be tolerated. Saying you want forced deportation isn't there just yet but saying leave or die is.
>There is also a substantial number on the right that want to see the genocide of groups of people. Using your principle of arresting people due to their desire to harm the state or its citizens, should the ethno-nationalists and the pro genocide right wingers also be arrested?
If it is a call to action saying to target certain individuals in society to be terminated then I would understand why they were arrested if they were spreading the message in a public venue. The thing is I have yet to see that done publicly. Most of those who argue this do it in private like on /pol/ or even lefty/pol/. If it is in private then its not a problem with free speech since every individual should have a right to say or think what he wants to in private. But a call to action against anyone should not be tolerated. Saying you want forced deportation isn't there just yet but saying leave or die is.
>>114177
Checked. And basically yes. I don't personally care if a person wants to waste their own time and money on feminist baking studies, but the rest of us shouldn't be forced to. Approving or denying loans based on merit and future income prospects means that students applying for college would be forced to think about whether or not their major is actually worth it. A student applying for a gender studies program would likely be denied a loan. That means if they want to pursue that course of study they would have to pay for it themselves somehow. At that point the kid is basically forced to look at the price tag and give serious thought to whether or not a glorified diploma from Hamburger U is really a good use of $150,000. Odds are a lot of them will reconsider, which means the schools would see a significant drop in enrollment for bullshit programs, while I'm guessing STEM and business and medicine and things like that would increase or remain the same.
The guaranteed way to kill off any leftist conclave is to cut off their access to other people's money.
Checked. And basically yes. I don't personally care if a person wants to waste their own time and money on feminist baking studies, but the rest of us shouldn't be forced to. Approving or denying loans based on merit and future income prospects means that students applying for college would be forced to think about whether or not their major is actually worth it. A student applying for a gender studies program would likely be denied a loan. That means if they want to pursue that course of study they would have to pay for it themselves somehow. At that point the kid is basically forced to look at the price tag and give serious thought to whether or not a glorified diploma from Hamburger U is really a good use of $150,000. Odds are a lot of them will reconsider, which means the schools would see a significant drop in enrollment for bullshit programs, while I'm guessing STEM and business and medicine and things like that would increase or remain the same.
The guaranteed way to kill off any leftist conclave is to cut off their access to other people's money.
>>114187
I agree, but this brings us back to the JQ and the educational standards of the US. (((They))) will never voluntarily allow critical thinking courses in K-12.
I agree, but this brings us back to the JQ and the educational standards of the US. (((They))) will never voluntarily allow critical thinking courses in K-12.
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>>114198
Reminder that censorship is a Jewish invention.
https://he.wikipedia.org/wiki/צנזורה_על_ספרים_עבריים
Reminder that censorship is a Jewish invention.
https://he.wikipedia.org/wiki/צנזורה_על_ספרים_עבריים
>>114151
>(i.e. talking about homosexuality, showing race mixing, shoving the Communist Manifesto in our faces, etc.)
I'm entirely fine with this, just not to children and not in the education system in general. Also there should be laws about basic decency in regard to things like "pride parades"
>(i.e. talking about homosexuality, showing race mixing, shoving the Communist Manifesto in our faces, etc.)
I'm entirely fine with this, just not to children and not in the education system in general. Also there should be laws about basic decency in regard to things like "pride parades"
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I refer you to this thread: >>99048 →
Yes, of course the Right is compatible with free speech, even if the historical precedent has been a rocky road. The Right defined loosely desires a hierarchical society where rank extends from natural ability, while the Left desires an egalitarian society. If the natural hierarchy of the Right is so capable then it cannot suffer defeat through free speech, only when it has become so arrogant and imbalanced that it cannot stand on its own. The Right at its core believes in objective truth and the truth will set you free.
>>114170
This gentleanon gets it. The reason why leftism has corrupted every institution is because it gets assistance from related cells in other institutions, particularly government. Big government is the largest friend of the Left as it has abused grants and funding to establish what is essentially a regime of propaganda. Cut off the funding and the machine will fall apart.
Also, it should be noted that in a free market institutions, particularly educational facilities, compete for results. Without external aid colleges could not sustain unprofitable social studies programs and could not coddle thousands of revolutionary thugs. They would go bankrupt or be forced to revise their curricula to be more right-leaning or at least politically-neutral and practical.
Yes, of course the Right is compatible with free speech, even if the historical precedent has been a rocky road. The Right defined loosely desires a hierarchical society where rank extends from natural ability, while the Left desires an egalitarian society. If the natural hierarchy of the Right is so capable then it cannot suffer defeat through free speech, only when it has become so arrogant and imbalanced that it cannot stand on its own. The Right at its core believes in objective truth and the truth will set you free.
>>114170
This gentleanon gets it. The reason why leftism has corrupted every institution is because it gets assistance from related cells in other institutions, particularly government. Big government is the largest friend of the Left as it has abused grants and funding to establish what is essentially a regime of propaganda. Cut off the funding and the machine will fall apart.
Also, it should be noted that in a free market institutions, particularly educational facilities, compete for results. Without external aid colleges could not sustain unprofitable social studies programs and could not coddle thousands of revolutionary thugs. They would go bankrupt or be forced to revise their curricula to be more right-leaning or at least politically-neutral and practical.
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>>114151
Free speech won't be seen as a problem in a racially and ethnically homogeneous state (a nation-state) because there will be a relatively high level of social trust.
This means, partition the country or deport the non-whites, and free speech will not seem extraordinary. Free speech and liberty generally are also ancient European cultural values. Freedom of expression is compatible with white nationalism.
In a heterogeneous state, free speech is important for the survival of each distinct group of people, so we support it then also. It helps us to organize our white nationalist community.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4C3h_qD0nGQ
Free speech won't be seen as a problem in a racially and ethnically homogeneous state (a nation-state) because there will be a relatively high level of social trust.
This means, partition the country or deport the non-whites, and free speech will not seem extraordinary. Free speech and liberty generally are also ancient European cultural values. Freedom of expression is compatible with white nationalism.
In a heterogeneous state, free speech is important for the survival of each distinct group of people, so we support it then also. It helps us to organize our white nationalist community.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4C3h_qD0nGQ
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