It was suggested that I make a new thread dedicated to expanding on this question:
>Well what about the falling rate of profit? Think the reason so many people are putting their bets on communism is they're just hoping something works if capitalism ends up not working--which seems to be the case.
>Someone needs to figure out the logistics no matter what happens in the future. If nationalism, what economic system? If communism, what flavor? If barbarism, how do we power the grain mill? If feudalism, what do we do when that evolves into capitalism again and we're in this situation again but without oil?
Do we have a contingency plan if the capitalism/neoliberal economics thing doesn't work out? How do we do an economic system if profit ends up being on average impossible in the future?
147 replies and 18 files omitted.
>>386874>All currency is based on man-hoursIt currently, presently, literally is not, no matter what kind of mental gymnastics you go through.
>>386874> All currency is based on man-hoursmaybe it should, but I doubt it actually is.
Because man-hours in the West are valued differently from man-hours in Bujumbura
And then there is the individual level of efficiency or competence of the person... every person is different and has a different work capacity and efficiency. Someone with higher capacity and efficiency will probably be valued more, no?
>>386875The land you inhabit carries a property tax.
That tax is based on land valuation.
That land valuation is based on it's desirability due to someone in the past taming the land for human usage.
That land valuation is also based on the building's value.
Those things took man-hours.
You pay taxes to use that land.
You can only pay taxes using an approved currency.
The currency derives it's value from the tax, which derives it's value from the man-hours.
Now do it for your income.
You have a job to buy things.
Those things are made and maintained by other people.
Why is a classic incandescent light bulb so cheap now?
Because they take less man-hours to produce than they did 100 years ago.
>>386877The entire chain of man hours that go into producing your mobile phone from resource extraction, to manufacture, to sale collectively get paid less than a single CEO who maybe does an interview to announce the phone's release on the market. Man hours are NOT the definition of value.
>>386879>Man hours are NOT the definition of valueYou seem to think that when I say that man-hours is the basis of all value I'm saying that all men are equal.
This is not the case.
In the current world economy:
The time of an African slave is 1/1000000000
The time of a Chinese slave is 1/1000000
The time of a Corporate slave is 1/6000
The time of a philosemite slave is 1/2000
>>386878>Absolutelyok so then how is value actually determined?
When I determine my hourly rate, this is what I do: I determine how much I want to earn and I want to be somewhere north of the mean yearly income of my country. Then I divide that by the amount of hours I want to work in a year.
Another thing I think about is this: how many years would it take me to pay off a mortgage for an average house where I live? Today, for 2 full time incomes, it takes about 25-35 years. In the 80's, it was just 5-10 years.
So because of this, I tend to value my hourly rate even higher still. Because in my mind, having a roof over your head is literally the most basic thing in life. If that becomes unaffordable without working yourself into an early grave, then what's the point?
>>386881>It's man-hours, but not really :)Okay you're just full of shit then
>>386805Well my thought process is it seems modular, so you could quickly get a logistics chain started back up if everything goes to shit.
>>386921Oh my ID reshuffled? I've been posting on desktop and my ereader and it's shared my ID since it's the same WiFi. It's still the same WiFi but my ID changed. Will see if it happened on desktop too.
>>386788>They support no tariffs, no taxes, and child sex slaves.>not wanting to be taxed morally equatable to being a pedophileDon’t get why you’ve listed anti-taxation there.
Also you’re confusing not having a government officaply outlaw pedophiles with actively supporting child-rape. I don’t understand why you’ve done so.
>>386805>When the automation/AI/robots take over, I will love to see how the lolbertards is going to solve the problem of a huge jobless starving angry mob The libertarian solution was to implement libertarianism long before the automation came along: without redistributive policies, minimum wages, etc blah blah, the lower-quality humans that are being made obsolete would never have reproduced to the numbers they have. Without your statist meddling, there would be no automation crisis because only a small number of people would be useless enough to become outmoded by robots.
This follows the pattern of statism: interfere with the market to solve what you think is an issue, cause a new problem, enact more state interference to solve this problem, causing a new problem.
When the automation problem comes along, idiots in government will again interfere, perhaps outlawing robots for small businesses to reduce job losses; causing a problem of large corporations benefiting unfairly.
Frankly the root cause of statism is dysgenics; the population is too stupid to intuitively reject state intervention.
>>386805> When the automation/AI/robots take over, I will love to see how the lolbertards is going to solve the problem of a huge jobless starving angry mobthat's what the vax is for for m8
> who's is going to consume all those products produce by automation/AI/robots?the elite
>>386830>most people jobs will be replaced by machines.Wrong. You’re assuming intelligence (among other traits) remains constant in the population. Innovation raises the bar for what can be automated, but this does not mean the population will have no robots. It does mean you need to ensure eugenic breeding, something leftists and those who support redistributive policies can’t accept.
>>386841>The competency crisisFruits of dysgenic breeding. Itself a product of complex civilization’s dysgengic selection pressures.
>>386830>The only solution is to give everybody an income from the government in order to keep the economy moving.Following Keynesianism is what caused the modern economic mess. The idea that people won’t carry out basic jobs to maintain life and result in deflationary collapse is stupid, i’m surprised people go on with the belief.
>>386849Stop paying welfare to single mothers and new members of the prison population will stop being raised. The solution (as seemingly always) is non-intervention.
>>386808Some minute amount if human labor is always required. Either you contribute it, you pay someone else on your behalf, or enslave them to contribute that labor for free. The robot-fuelled communist utopia is just the modern redistributive welfare state.
>>387612>not wanting to be taxed morally equatable to being a pedophileLibertarians and AnCaps are infamous for their "what if the child consent argument?". The further down the political compass goes, the more morally bankrupt they are.
Got murdered? You didn't enforce the NAP
Got robbed? You didn't enforce the NAP
Got raped in the ass by a wild pack niggers? You didn't enforce the NAP
Got sold into slavery as a child and got ass raped until adult? You didn't enforce the NAP
You are responsible for your freedom, no government or police is going to save you.
Do you understand that there some AnCaps who will shoulder check your NAP capability?
Like I know you're a brit that lives in a country with knife surrendering bins and can't even protect yourself or wear body armor. And if you get ass rape by a wild pack of muslims, the british police won't care. But I hope you understand that some people just want to use violence to get what they want and that is perfectly acceptable in an AnCap society.
>>388092I don't think ancap would work but this seems like a "imagine you have two cows" teir misinterpretation of what they're about.
Also I think left-libs have Max Stirner, which doesn't believe in morality, but does see ethics as useful, which is pretty much formalized morality. Then again I don't know how popular Max Stirner actually is among them, I just see lefties on activitypub talking about him, nor have I actually read Max's works yet.
>>387620>that's what the vax is for for m8I'm not convinced they have something that is time released for the automation take over. It's going to be gradual process spanning the next couple of decades. It's unlikely there is something just lying dormant that will be activated 20 years later especially when gene therapies lose efficacy over time due to gene silencing and episomes being lost during cell division.
https://pmc.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/articles/PMC8865469/#:~:text=In%20summary%2C%20this%20study%20presents,in%20related%20gene%20therapy%20applications.
Ultimately I think the solution offered is going to be transhumanism. If you can make your workers smarter, stronger, and more durable while making yourself even smarter, stronger, and more durable. Why not do it? Especially when mRNA and DNA vaccines are so cheap to produce? If it is more cost effective to upgrade the workers than it is to buy new machines and run data centers then it is a no brainer.
>>388130I have noticed my mood and ability to focus improved considerably since the jab despite my living conditions getting worse.
Please fucking read Die Nazi-Soci it will literally answer every economic question, with basically "put bad actors in camps" and "mandate supply side production.
I realize you horsefuckers have a libertarian marketnerd streak and I don't want to shit on your parade but economic questions are so irrelevant when you're being actively genocided. We do have a plan and its a good plan that has existed for quite some time, and worked so well the one time we got to acfually implement it it made a state the size of texas productive enough to fight the entire world with only spaghettiniggers and an Island full of weebs as backup.
>>388129The closest thing is an AnCap society is some countries in Africa where you can exchange camels for machinguns, buy slaves, and do whatever you want as long you got the most power in the region. But everytime I mention that, I get replies like "BUT THOSE ARE NIGGERS COUNTRIES". There are remote places in the world where if you got enough men with guns, you can enforce whatever retarded society you want.
388108
Which is why you're not getting a (You). This retard thinks that everybody is going to magically respect the NAP and know every autistic rules when it come to enforcing and not enforcing the NAP. He's the type of the person in Wild West that either get shot behind the back in a poker game or get robbed and left for dead because he only got 1 gun to their 6 guns.
@388310
>xe refers to the Old West as Wild West
>xe refers to a successful American AnCap as something bad
388310
Still continuing with your retarded strawmanning, I see.
388316
Still no argument, I see. At one person here argue of solving the problem by being the capitalist version of Pol Pot.
388319
I'll argue when you actually criticize anarcho-capitalism, and not a retarded strawman of it you've conjured up in your mind.
388320
Third post and still no argument. I'm not going to guess what autistic definition you have for anarcho-capitalism or try to guess what autistic perfect AnCap society you have in your head.
>>388310>There are remote places in the world where if you got enough men with guns, you can enforce whatever retarded society you want.Perhaps with crossbows, ancap could be a speedrun strat to get up to feudalism when things collapse, then non-meme capitalism, then whatever's next. Industrialization will still be hard without oil/coal though. Solar steam engines might be an option.
>>388323Neo-feudalism is actual a possibility once resources like oil and gas start running out. It's hard to protect your empire when you don't got the logistics for it and then suddenly you get a bunch a new nations popped up.
>>388325Nuclear power will solve that problem.
>>388333Looking into what the minimum equipment necessary to get nuclear power going could be interesting, like a Dr.Stone kinda thought experiment.
Hell I haven't read Dr. Stone yet for all I know they've covered that.
>>388092>You are responsible for your freedom, no government or police is going to save you.The government doesn’t do those things normally. It’s only motivation is to placate the crowds enough to prevent riots.
Your entire post is filled with non-arguments. Once you’re raped, you’ve been raped that’s it. Regardless if you live under government or AnCap; if there’s police to arrest your rapist, or the individuals of the market ostracise your rapist; you’ve been raped and there’s nothing to change that.
In effect you’re complaint is that under AnCap you wont get sufficient revenge on your rapist. That’s a non-argument as the exact same fucking thing happens under a government; look at Rotherham rape gangs. Even in the USA some victims want the death penalty for rapists.
>>388092>Do you understand that there some AnCaps who will shoulder check your NAP capability?You don’t understand the selection pressures present in a society with modern weapons and communications that naturally trivialize the threats posed by crime. Like most statists you’re too thick to get it.
>>388130>Ultimately I think the solution offered is going to be transhumanism. If you can make your workers smarter, stronger, and more durable while making yourself even smarter, stronger, and more durable.Free market genetic engineering I see as a viable eugenics system.
>Why not do it?Eugenics is unpopular. Society has been brainwashed by the leftwing into thinking eugenics is evil. Even rulers in government think it is evil.
>>388310AnCap isn’t going to pop into being overnight. It will be a natural evolution of government shrinking in size. We saw this happen in the renascence. Because civilization is cyclical (due to population genetics) we’ve been seeing governments grow for the past ~150 years.
>>388454Ancap isn't going to "pop into being" at all. Prognosticate all you want, but you'll know real ancap when you get shot in the face
>>388310>BUT THOSE ARE NIGGERS COUNTRIESAnalogous to calling a crew of 10 shipwrecked on an island AnCap because rest of their society is a thousand miles away. Those men have grown up with the culture they were raised in. Just because they’re shipwrecked doesn’t mean their culture and habits have suddenly changed, magic soil isn't real.
The same goes for an African shithole that recently toppled it’s dictator. The people of that nation were raised with a culture that had a government and all that goes with it. Just because the closest thing to a government are the roving gangs brandishing the guns given to them by the CIA again doesn’t mean the culture and habits of the people in that country have magically changed.
Once again, non-argument.
>>388310>everybody is going to magically respect the NAPMost people have sufficient foresight and planning abilities. In our government dominant societies it is the same. Most people of the mindset to commit crime do not; they don’t want to go to jail. Yet there are some people who commit crime regardless, be it brazenness or stupidity.
Under AnCap, jail is replaced by social ostracization and violence posed by guns: the people who commit crime inspite of these consequences are either killed in a gunfight or have no life due to ostracization. Natural selection -not a government- punishes crime.
>>388310>in Wild West that either get shot behind the back in a poker game or get robbedIrony is less than 10 bank robberies occurred throughout the entire wild west period. All thanks to healthy gun ownership and private security systems employed by banks.
>>388460This. The 'wildness' of the west is imagined by hollywood. Most folks were scared of getting shot for putting a foot wrong (and with good reason, since their neighbors were judge and jury)
>>388363>the minimum equipment necessary to get nuclear powerDue to government regulations it is prohibitively expensive.
Physically nuclear reactors could be as simple as a pile of natural uranium at the bottom of a swimming pool. More practical designs using late 19th century technology would be feasible.
>>388463>not an argumentNot intended to be, it was an indictment of how faggots like (you) wanna prognostigate on the internet.
You were saying?
>>388458>Under AnCap, jail is replaced by social ostracization and violence posed by gunsI'd add onto this that most models of an AnCap legal system involve voluntary protection agencies and courts for disputes. In a Hoppean covenant community, for example, it is likely that landlords would agree to contracts with competing security and arbitration services based on their record of competence and integrity, to attract tenants. It's likely the rate of clearance would be higher if anything.
>>388460That's cute, now look up stage coach robberies.